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bamba
Sweden
401 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 18:44:12
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Moongarden, people like Anna are best left alone. She is the type that wallows in her western affluence. The type that travels with charities to the poor and ask them to keep their mouths shut. Charity slaughters dignity like my late dad used to say.
Formby, the types of Gambians that tourists usually run into are not representative of gambian youths. Most rural and urban Gambians youths are occupied with their scholarstic pursuits and hardly have time for tourists. No doubt tourists normally ship over to the west the most vulnerable Gambians. |
Bamba |
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Jack
Belgium
384 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 20:29:11
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Thank you Moongarden for defending me.  I wasn't insulting at all and could not image what was wrong by using the word locals.
But I wouldn't replie to that topic as the youngster Akemo is answering with insulting one-liners.  He has to read and learn a lot, certainly about history of slavery. |
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akem0
United Kingdom
25 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 20:44:42
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| hi moongarden, in this days and time one of to be sensitive especially when discribing minorites. We black people have little slangs we call each other but a white person must dear not use those slangs when referring to us. I was born here in england and live here all my life and never heard the word local around where i live....they refer to them as the '' the boy r girl that live round arr estate. I was reading a story in the news paper sometime last year and one of those train platform assistant was sack for shouting to passengers to use the second class carriage. It annoys me to hear someone refer to my people as locals. |
''If you must die,'' face the murderous cowardly pack/pressed to the wall, dying, but fighting back! |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 20:45:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Formby
Plenty are poor and retain their dignity. The fact that some don't is not a poverty issue but a personal standard of conduct one.
I agree on this. 
Poverty does not automatically lead to a destructive lifestyle, such as prostitution and crime. There are so many proud, strong, honest, hard working poor people who struggle everyday just to feed their families. Some of the toughest people in the world who donīt live an easy life but still stick to their believes and values. Who would rather die than sell their body at some streetcorner. Not even for a million bucks!
A human being must have some dignity. |
Edited by - Babylon on 20 Mar 2006 20:48:07 |
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molly75
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 21:22:31
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I completely agree that sad fact that the Gambia is now a destination for sex tourists. I travelled to the Gambia in December and i met 2 british women aged 72 and 67. They openly told me that they ahd come to the Gambia for sex with younger men. One of the women was already married to a Gambian man, whom she lived with in the uk. she told me she had got bored of him, so had come back to the Gambia 'for some fun'!!
There is no denying that these type of people give other tourists a bad name. I travelled to the Gambia with my friend, fo a relaxing holiday. But the gambian men had other ideas and obviously assumed we were there for sex. We ended up spending the entire holiday telling Gambian men that we were not there for sex!!! I don't see these gambian men as 'victims' who are exploited, they too are capable of 'exploitation' and know exactly what they are doing. Surely these men are not forced into sex, isn't it their choice???? |
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kiwi
Sweden
662 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 21:27:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
Because statistics say that Gambia/the Carribean are the destinations for mainly female sextourists?
What statistics are you referring to? How many % of women travelling to the Gambia go there intending to buy sex, according to statistics? |
kiwi |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 22:53:12
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According to the grapevine statistics! 
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 23:33:04
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Sadly i see that this discussion is going exactly the way i was afraid it would go. A few of you guys (and gals) are imprisoned in their prejudiced minds. And i can see a lot of frustration and pride. When i read the postings is seems as if everybody is right and nobody is right at the same time.
I resent the observation that white women in general are going to the Gambia to have sex with a younger black man. Some do, i know - and i feel embarrassment when i see these couples, mostly you can recognise them by the look of utter boredom on the young man's face. I always assume that he is regarding himself as a 'working' man, he is earning money somehow. But on the other hand, lots of white women are enjoying themselves on a holiday perhaps with their own husbands and children, and they are being harrassed by Gambian men who have difficulty with taking 'no, thanks' for an answer - and that is no fun either.
I am not affluent at all so there's not much to wallow in unfortunately, but sometimes you feel you have to share. There is not much i can do, my Gambian partner and I have to work hard to keep our heads above water here and try to put some money aside to see to it that his mother in the Gambia has food for the family (his father died a long time ago and he is the eldest son), and that his youngest brothers and sisters can go to school. Sometimes i feel very sorry for him and we are both angry because he receives textmessages and phonecalls from distant family members or 'friends of friends' asking to bring mobiles, watches or whatever. Naturally we never comply with these requests, but they are irritating nevertheless.
Some of my friends are in a different situation and they have managed to found helporganisations to bring in schoolmaterials, wheelchairs or laboratory equipment and what not. There is a lack of all these things because the Gambian government is unwilling or unable to provide for their people. I'd rather not go into politics, wouldn't know where to start really.
Bamba, the saying of your late father that 'Charity slaughters Dignity' is a beautiful one and i am sure i will remember it for the rest of my life. Still, i am afraid charity is needed in the Gambia at this moment (sadly enough) and i believe a person can be charitable in a very respectful way so that no dignity is lost.
Troublexxx (?, forgot the numbers), Amsterdam is beautiful indeed and you are right that it attract undesirables. I would say the same goes for the Gambia.
What more can i say? Better leave it at that, because i realise some of you will persist in seeing the old patronising colonial in me. Who cares? Just as long as my Gambian lover, his mother and child and me, myself know better. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 00:59:39
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i think we should not let this discussion decend into a black/white thing,slavery or colonialism or throw words at each other.there is absolutley no link between the two.
we are all just learning from each other. we cannot even begin to talk about the positive side of tourism. Anna do you know how many people have had their school fees paid by tourists. do you know how many classrooms/schools have been erected by tourists. do you know how many hotels have been built by gambians through friendship they made in the tourist industry. i can go on forever.the evidence i there for all. everyday in the newspapers you see a e.g Dutch philanthropist openning a new nursery school somewhere. the next page will show a Brit with his container full of medicine, book etc.
what we must stick to is the issue of how the culture/people are coping with an evolving industry. the impact. No european female can make a gambian adult male do what he doesnt want to do, even if she was made of gold!the reverse is true
when you read the Wikipedia link you laughed but i felt humilated. this is because it is regulated in your country and monitored by the system.this is the gap we must bridge. your country is equally listed but you can live in amsterdam your whole life and not see a prostitute if you dont venture into the Red light district. prostitutes dont walk the street selling their product. a pedophile would be arrested and deported if he tries to enter amsterdam airport! this is not the case back home where things are becoming almost 'in your face' its very visible for children and adults alike.
a pedophile entering the gambia would not be detected by the system.
here you have a people who have developed a culture of tolerance, peace and kindness that is now having to deal with imports like paedophilia,homosexuality and mass prostitution. we are only discussing to find answers.
i appreciate your concern on the children, this is what disgusts me Most.
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 04:32:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
quote:
Originally posted by Formby
Plenty are poor and retain their dignity. The fact that some don't is not a poverty issue but a personal standard of conduct one.
I agree on this.
Poverty does not automatically lead to a destructive lifestyle, such as prostitution and crime. There are so many proud, strong, honest, hard working poor people who struggle everyday just to feed their families. Some of the toughest people in the world who donīt live an easy life but still stick to their believes and values. Who would rather die than sell their body at some streetcorner. Not even for a million bucks!
A human being must have some dignity.
its easy to talk about dignity when you have a nice warm house and a fridge full of food. most of the people having sex for money are young for a reason, some want the life they see on the tv, or for once to have something nice. most westerners are so hypocritic, its hard for them to recognize their own westerner imperial bullsh#^. the sad thing is, i don't remember who wrote this but, yeah its true, its usually tourist who can't get anyone in their own countries and come to Gambia where their money can buy them "affection" and sex. how pitiful.  |
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bamba
Sweden
401 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 09:54:15
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Let's all be reasonably realistic about charity and dignity. There is a Wolof proverb that says, "the hand that gives is always above the hand that receives". They say beggers have no choice, how can then beggers choose to retain their dignity? The meagre and mismanaged resources in Africa, with proper governances, can provide Africans at least with their basic needs. But the present status quo in Africa belies such a reality.
The present situation in Africa is such that every Tom, Dick and Mary European can beg around in Europe for charity recipients in Africa. Nothing is free in our modern world. Some European purported charity workers have their own agendas.
Euro-Americans never needed charity organistions to help Europe, their ancestral home, develop through Marshal plan.
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 10:45:56
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Njucks, i am happy to read in your posting that at least you think there is a good side to tourism as well. Of course you are perfectly right in telling me that the so-called sextourism to my country is a lot less harmful to the population because of all the regulations we have. Still, we have some very sad cases of childabuse in Holland from time to time, as, i suppose, in other European countries.
It is very noble to try and steer away this discussion from black/white or slavery/colonialism points of view, but i am afraid it will be to no avail - you only have to read the replies that came in after yours.
The Gambia needs tourism at this moment, think of all the Gambians earning their keep in the hotels and restaurants, the taxidrivers etc. I don't think it is much use to keep on being nostalgic, thinking of the unspoilt country before the tourists came. Of course we all have these dreams sometimes, but it would be just like me thinking how lovely the old squares in our small towns would look without cars or how nice it was travelling in a train without everybody around you shouting in their mobile phones. How nice to think back about these quiet times, but unfortunately there is no escape. All the world is developing, and this development has its good points and obviously its bad ones.
I have seen and experienced the tolerance, peace and kindness in the village upcountry where my Gambian man was born. And the dignity!! You would wish on the one hand it could stay like that forever, but on the other hand you know that cannot be. We cannot put a stop to 'progress', and with this also come the excesses and the greed. It is sad but true. But please, let's not become cynical!
There is one thing i feel i have to say by way of disagreement: you make it sound as if paedophilia, homosexuality and prostitution have been imported into the Gambia or any African country by the white men. I am sure you are aware of the fact that all three aspects of human nature have existed as long as mankind has existed in all parts of the world among all colours of man. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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moongarden
United Kingdom
38 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 11:51:01
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Hi Jede, my intention was not to take either side in this matter but instead to bring understanding that there are by two differing meanings for the same word. i was not aware that there were two meanings for this word until Akem0 described it and i do not think that you were not aware of this either. so you and i have learned that the word has other meanings and Akem0 has learned that you were not using this word as having a bad meaning.
quote:
Originally posted by akem0
in this days and time one of to be sensitive especially when discribing minorites. We black people have little slangs we call each other but a white person must dear not use those slangs when referring to us.
Hi Akem0, i agree with you that sometimes you can use a word amongst friends or family but if a person from outside that group uses the word it can perhaps be thought of as an insult. perhaps it is best to try to see the intention of the person who is saying it are they using the word without knowing the meaning? making a joke? or are they trying to make you angry?
I am sorry to have diverted from the original topic.
quote:
Originally posted by molly75
There is no denying that these type of people give other tourists a bad name. I travelled to the Gambia with my friend, fo a relaxing holiday. But the gambian men had other ideas and obviously assumed we were there for sex. We ended up spending the entire holiday telling Gambian men that we were not there for sex!!!
i was travelling in the Gambia in January with my sister and we also found this to be the case but only in the tourist areas so we stayed out of these areas as much as possible. it is not so easy to educate yourself about a culture when you are having the food of your own country on the menu and you stay in the hotel however it is the sad case that there as are many types of tourist as there are many types of people.
quote:
Originally posted by njucks
we are all just learning from each other.
Hi Njucks, I agree that is why this bantaba is important so that we can ask questions and understand each other better and perhaps look for some answers to questions such as this.
quote:
Originally posted by njucks
a pedophile entering the gambia would not be detected by the system.
here you have a people who have developed a culture of tolerance, peace and kindness that is now having to deal with imports like paedophilia,homosexuality and mass prostitution. we are only discussing to find answers.
i appreciate your concern on the children, this is what disgusts me Most.
i have to add to this that paedophiles are rarely detected in the UK until they have already committed some crimes which is a very sad thing but how would you find out about this person before that.
i am sure all of us here would seek to protect the children from this. i have no doubts on this. but the question is more difficult if we are speaking of a grown man or woman.
perhaps we should firstly look at preventing this individuals tragedy from worsening by bringing HIV/AIDS into their family by helping those individuals to understand the risks and what has to be done.
a person could turn to this way to make some money to support their family but their family would be in a much worse position if they were to become sick.
quote:
Originally posted by anna
There is one thing i feel i have to say by way of disagreement: you make it sound as if paedophilia, homosexuality and prostitution have been imported into the Gambia or any African country by the white men. I am sure you are aware of the fact that all three aspects of human nature have existed as long as mankind has existed in all parts of the world among all colours of man.
Hi Anna, i am sorry if it offended you earlier. i see you are still here and would not be if you did not care.
i also have to say that i totally agree that this is a sad aspect of human nature that has been around as long as the human race has existed.
so to return directly to the heart of the matter. i know this is a difficult subject to talk about. i would like to suggest looking at other places where this problem has been reduced and seek to find how they have managed to achieve this. |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 12:09:22
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quote:
Originally posted by kassma
its easy to talk about dignity when you have a nice warm house and a fridge full of food.
Yes thatīs right, I do have a nice warm house and a fridge sometimes full of food... specially round x-mas.
And I worked my azz off to get it. And I donīt mean as a street hooker.
By the way, youīre starting to sound like a chihuahua on drugs everytime you make your pointless, neurotic comments.
But thatīs alright, just keep on doing what you do best -bark (did you learn from DMX?) I like dogs... |
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moongarden
United Kingdom
38 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 13:25:01
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Hi Babylon,
do not forget that Sweden, like the UK, has a low rate of unemployment - please recognise this as an advantage for those who live there and be thankful that you are lucky to live in such a country.
i have to say that i agree with Kassma. it is easy to talk about dignity when you have no desperation for money. i have a friend who i went to school with who started taking drugs when she was 13 because her father was always beating her - she is now sadly a heroin addict and works as a prostitute to pay for her drugs. the saddest part of all is that before this happened she was a very bright girl always getting within the top 3 in every class. |
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