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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 21:39:08
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quote:
now your signature is nonsensical and even blasphemous. 'There is no God,... What is? No God. There is no God but Allah,.....
What is? No God but Allah! Much better. It's called semantics.
Maashallah.... |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2007 : 03:07:54
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These are the products I found on my web search for the DVD in question:-
I) “Islam: What the West Needs to Know” DVD
Davis, Gregory M. and Daly, Bryan, producers under http://www.conservativebookservice.com/products/popreview.asp?prod_cd=c6764
I) Islam: What the West Needs to Know (2007)
Starring: Robert Spencer, Walid Shoebat Director: Gregory M. under http://www.amazon.com/Islam-What-West-Needs-Know/dp/B000PE0GQO/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
II) Islam: What the West Needs to Know (2007)
Starring: Robert Spencer, Walid Shoebat Director: Gregory M. under http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Islam-and-Armageddon/dp/B000J10FMS/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1194659091&sr=1-1
III) Customer Reviews
Islam: What the West Needs to Know under http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000PE0GQO?filterBy=addFourStar
IV) Israel, Islam, and Armageddon
under http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Islam-and-Armageddon/dp/B000J10FMS/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1194659091&sr=1-1
As can be seen from these sources, its about merchandise, HIGH LEVEL POLITICS, PROPAGANDA, IDEOLOGY & RELIGIOUS WARS and beyond our ability to handle.
However I will struggle to forward some important useful information for CONTEMPORARY & COMPARATIVE STUDIES OF ISLAM WITH OTHER RELIGIONS, LEARN FEW AUTHORITATIVE TRANSLATIONS & INTERPRETAIONS FROM THE QURAN, UN-COVERING PROPHET MUNHAMMAD AND INCREASE OUR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT OTHER GREAT PROPHETS.
I do not have any knowledge on this topic but can reproduce some relevant authoritative information to counter these CONDEMNATION AGAINST ONE OF THE GREATEST RELIGIONS! |
Edited by - kobo on 10 Nov 2007 03:17:09 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2008 : 18:14:57
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Forwarded as relevant & courtesy of ThePoint newspaper columnist; ISLAM AND THE WESTERN MEDIA: A CARICATURE OF THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (pbuh)
under http://www.thepoint.gm/muslim_hands65.htm |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
558 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 11:46:32
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| Oh for crying out loud, give Kay a break. This topic has been going on since last year - its getting rather boring. Only the weak refuses to take criticism. It is well known and thoroughly documented right from the begining of islam in the 6th to 7th century that islam used the sword to exercise its dominance. There is nothing wrong in believing in islam or any other religion,but at least take some of your precious time to research how the religion first started rather than just believing what had been feed to you. I have no time for people who dont question. Knowledge is power. You have a brain so for crying out loud - use it. This is not a denegration of islam. The 'humble' beginings of islam, it's history through out the ages since it's birth as well as the islamic terrorist in our generation have already denegrated islam by themselves - it does not need somebody else to do that. The latin maxim 'res ipsor liquitor' [the fact speaks for itself] applies here. Why is it that if people criticise other religions [except islam] - those brought up in those religions can take it, but criticise/raise a question about islam -, and the fatoir is issued against your head? |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 12:24:58
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Finally someone who dares to say what a lot of us have been thinking! Thanks for this pertinent posting, Tamsier (and good luck with the fall out  ) |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 19:58:49
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tamsier, for not crying out loud, can you please tell us which believe system if any that you hold? secondly ,can you also tell us where you get your facts from about islam?
i never show any of your socall critism of any religion here except islam, well, your critism or lack of it does not affect any body's faith here. what we know and write about is that ,fasle label agaisnt islam has been part of western acadamia since the middle ages. books upon book have been written against islam, but the fact remains, among non-born muslims islam continue to grow across the lenght and breath of the globe. that shows you all the grap that you store in your head is untrue and will never hold water. you believe in what you want but when some one wish to clarify why get offended by that? you socall free thinkers are the worst interms of intolerance. you hide behind your athesim and humanism to attack others, that is nonsensical. yes, those who think and act like you will always robe your back, cus ,that is what is their true colour.
from volatire to modern day western writers, their critism of islam was always misdirected. you hardly see any muslims litrature dedicated to saying bad and untruth about cristianity. when the church was bust writing untruth about islam ,the masses started leaving the church in draws. now, most churchs are empty,why? they didn't pay attentipon to what they should be doing. they spend much valuable time attacking islam ,writing books, making film and using covert methods to create bad and ungly events just to defeat islam idealogically, well it fail and will continue to fail. tamsier, you tell us about your ancestor and what they believe in since you seems to be drawn in that direction and then tell us about the great warrior class of your ancestor rule.
yes, islam have a political side to it. we believe in the law of god. muslims did engage in battles with their eneminies just like christains enegage in battles,just like african of old enegage in battles, just like indian engage in battles. may be tamsier you need reading hindu scriptures and christain scriptures and then you need reading anceint greek war books and now ,the many military war books. tell us which idealogy escapes the element of militarism? when men are involve in any thing ,the consiquencies of war is some thing they must be alert of. can you tell us how may wars the u.s have fought outside it shores? can you tell us how many human beings were kill during the ages due to revolutions and wars of independence ,here only in africa. can you tell us how many people have been kill by the church in establishing the doctrine of trinity? also can you as an historian tell us how many people our own ancestor kill in establishing their dominance over others? here also only the serere kingdom if you may. the message of islam is from God and it is a guide for all believers in it. it preach the worship of one God and that there is no intermeidary between man and God. the Prophet passes the message from God. it advice human beings on morality and manners. on understaning the real purpose of life and death. if some object to that, that is their freedom. the generalision and demonisation is an unjust way of expressing oneself. write about islam or muslims but get your facts right and stop generalising comments. if one is to generalise the barbaric act of the nazis to all christians whites wil that be an accorate account of writing history? this style of demonising whole muslims community is disgraceful and intellectually dishonest. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 20:58:39
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Tamsier; sorry to say that KAY is not my TARGET anymore in my EFFORTS to FORWARD WHATEVER IS USEFUL/RELEVANT FOR THIS TOPIC; UNDER RELIGION & POLITICS IN DEFENCE OF ISLAM AGAINST THE PROPAGANDISTS OR SO-CALLED IMPERIALISTS for WORLD DOMINATION? Do you think that ASTROCITIES are against ARABS or ISLAM The ARABS have their own POLITICAL AGENDA WHICH IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM ISLAMIC POLITICS & AGENDA TERRORISM IS POLITICAL (US POLICIES & STRATEGIES, C.I.A, MOSAAD, AL-QAEDA, OIL, ISRAEL, PALESTINE, IRAN!!!); ISN'T IT?
PLEASE NOTE THAT THESE WARS ARE NOT STARTED BY POLITICS OF SPREADING ISLAM Muslims have lived PEACEFULLY WITH ITS FAITH until TWISTED BY 9/11, Gulf War on OIL & AMERICAN FARCISM
Useful AUTHORITATIVE URLs COURTESY OF ....Shaikh Ahmad Kutty, Senior Lecturer Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada under:-
i) Was Islam Spread at the Point of Sword?
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503544434&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar
ii)Islam & Freedom of Belief by Shaikh Ahmad Kutty http://www.faisalkutty.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=241
iii) GOD VERSUS ALLAH (THE ANTI GOD): EVIL IN THE NAME OF GOD http://godofreason.com/new-page-41.htm
iv) Web page "Islam and freedom of belief Sheikh Ahmad Kutty Senior lecturer at Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario Canada" http://search.virginmedia.com/results/?channel=search&vml=telewest&vmt=&f=0&q=Islam++and+freedom+of+belief+Sheikh+Ahmad+Kutty+Senior+lecturer+at+Islamic+Institute+of+Toronto%2C+Ontario+Canada&cr=&x=27&y=14
Thanks Tamsier for your opinions and MANY THANKS to Santafara for REJOINDER!
NO FURTHER UPDATES WON'T COME AGAIN ON THIS TOPIC FROM ME BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING TO ADD AND REST MY CASE PEACEFULLY! 
MAY ALLAH BLESS ALL! Ameen!
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Edited by - kobo on 16 Apr 2008 23:50:29 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 23:52:14
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kobo, i don't think you should censor yourself just because some body cannot stand seeing an alternative opinion on islam. how many times do we read in the papers or books matter which are one sided and completely irrational associated with islam without no single reseach? writers such bernard lewis,jc Barreau,lueg,cox,gibbon, l stoddard, and many more acadamic hide the westerns genosides and wish to expose percieve muslim barbarity, one wonders were is the socall muslim complaint. every single day, ugly reports are associated with islam and muslims, infact one can coin words and tag it to islam people will believe you.
i quote A lueg here, not good reading. ''in the gulf war,western dominance was demonstrated in its ability to kill more efficiently. at the same time, it was possible to justify the military action and the many victims of this war more easily by using an image of people in islamic countries as inferior to us and therefore of less value. we caught them with their pants down.they were still in their sleeping bags. it was just like shooting turkeys' was how the american company commander jess fairington expressed himself after a helicopter gunship attack on iragi positions during the gulf war.''
the perception his book. depick people has sub-humans and then use legitimate terms and methods to exterminate.
we don't need to accept untrue and distortion just because some body believe in it. when people start accepting others distortion ,history gets rewriten. the holocaust in u.s is never made a meal out of,the apathied ugliness is never made a meal out of and this are recent acts which need discussing ,do we see our brother historian on those territory?
what the reporters hipe up about islamist and/or jihadish is all mixed-up in proxy wars. who are this socall islamist that are not serving islam any way?
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Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 07:45:29
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Whatever, Tamsier's believe system is, is immaterial to this discussion. The question of objectivity does not necessarily have to do with one's personal believe.
As far as I know, it is Kobo who is relentlessly drumming up this topic even though everyone has moved on long time ago. It is evident that Kobo is on a losing game, that is why none of his responses satisfies him; he has to keep adding to them with new responses and sources. Tamsier is merely telling him that "enough is enough, you have lost this debate, move on to something else".
Islamic terrorism, in the modern world,is reality no one can deny. It cannot be justified by the past errors in either christian history, Greek history, Indian history, or anything at all. It is plain wrong, and all good people no matter what faith they practice should distance themselves from it. Making excuses for terrosism and terrorists is gross and shameful. "He who hide the wrong surely did the wrong thing still", Bob Marley. Human beings have come a long way; our history is full of atrocities. However, we live in a modern world with new responsibilities and higher standards of knowledge and morals. Some of the human failings in the past cannot be condoned today, that is why terrorism deserves an outright condemnation without making excuses.
Voltaire's strongest attacks on faith was directed at the christian clergy (not Muslims) and the political elite of his time. Santafara's contention that "...western writer's criticsms of Islam are misdirected" is too sweeping, although he is perfectly entitled to it. There are many christians in America and the western world who think that the media and the intellectual/scientific community is disengeneous to faith and the church. The truth however is that many "progressivist" scholars are very apprehensive of faith in general, not just Islam...
United States has gone to war in Afganistan and Iraq out of neccissity, even though Iraq war was based on faulty intelligence. These wars cannot be used to justify terrorism.
You see one time my daughter came from school after a social studies class, she told me "daddy they think Africa is poor". I said yeah, Africa is poor; then she said "but we are not poor". Then I said yeah, but there are a lot of people who are poor in Africa...
This dicussion between my daughter and I illustrates the fact that western education and media generally represent Africa with wildlife, ethnic people, poverty, and disease. In the same way, the Middle Eastern people may be represented by some set of stereotypes like Santafara seems to indicate, but I think this things could be understood in cultural terms, not in religious terms.
Please allow me to end this with this poem below:
DECLARATION OF WAR :
BY KAYJATTA.
A giant dropped wounded
Shot in both legs
By enemies in the sky
This attack on America
Is an attack on the world
All that we stand for
Freedom, prosperity, pluralism, civilization
It's a declaration of war
By a new wave of Islamism
Is this Islamic-Marxism ?
a war against Israel?
A war for Palestine?
Against modernity?
A holy war to kill the infidel
Maybe Rusdie wasn't right
I have seen thousands of men and women
Innocent lives
Beautiful lives
Vanish in smoke , melting steel and concrete
Oceans of tears
Of pain and sorrow
Lives torn apart
Spirits tumbled
Like stock prices on Wall Street
This is not about New York and Washington
Not about power and prosperity
It's about the people
All those fire-fighters
Who gave up their lives so others can live
It's not about Blacks or Whites
Even Republicans or Democrats
It's the human spirit
It's a declaration of war
A terror from the sky
Their way of finding God
That resides not
It's a declaration of war.
All rights reserved.
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Edited by - kayjatta on 17 Apr 2008 08:54:31 |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 09:05:01
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Thanks again, Kayatta! How can anyone see it in any different way?
Good poem again, wish i could have more of your poetry on NY  |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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