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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 09:23:03
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| Thanks Anna; may be some time... |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 11:11:10
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| kay, with all due respect, since has it become a taboo here in bantaba not to add links to a topic? if kobo add links ,that is his choice. by the way,if you are willing to attack others faith or believe system, it is good that you project an alternative system. critism for it's sake is uter nonsence and time wasting. the reseaches you carried out kay, didn't you gave your conclusions or recommendations? let's not make issues irralevant just because some one feels he/she has the license to castigate willy nilly. the problem is bias generalisation. every issue in the western perspective is dealth with accordingly and proper protocols are aboserved,but hell break loos when it islam or muslims being discussed. the languages are always general and misrepresenting ,why is that? do you think that is just innocent conversation as anna and meme are portraying? they always side with anti-islamic sentiments here why? is it that all they know about islam is negative? i don't write because islam is at risk ,or no ,but when incorrect depiction of my faith is written ,it is noble to express my opinion on it. dancing to the pipe per is not the solution. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
Edited by - Santanfara on 17 Apr 2008 11:14:09 |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 11:29:52
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Santanfara, i am not into 'innocent conversation' here on Bantaba (well, only now and then), but i am also absolutely not always siding with anti-Islamic sentiments. I am siding with anti-fanatic, anti-extremist and anti-terrorist sentiments here and it is of no importance what people are fanatic about or whatever ideology, belief or religion makes people believe that it would be 'good' to be an extremist or a terrorist.
Do we have to start this discussion all over again?
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When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 11:36:27
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Santafara, it is not a taboo at all; but it is interesting how Kobo is obsessed and fixated (in a Freudian sense) on this topic for so long without being able to move on.
Freedom of speech requires that we put up with a lot of nonsense, whether it is coming from you or me. Notwithstanding, western media has no steady friend. Not even the politicians in Washington are always happy with the media.Look at the sex scandals in the catholic church in U.S, who exposed it; look at all the scandals in Abu Ghurab and Guantanamo Bay, who exposed them; look at the state approved child abuse in Yemen; look at all the negative critcism we (and the media) direct at Jammeh without any mention of his good deeds. That is the nature of the media, we must not take those as conspiracy theories.
I think the biggest problem Islam is perhaps facing today is that it is hijacked by Middle-Eastern politics and Arab culture or social practices to the extent that it is nearly impossible to make a distinction between them |
Edited by - kayjatta on 17 Apr 2008 11:37:53 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 11:47:57
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| but then your anti-terrorism is colour blind. your anti-fanatism is colour blind.this we can see accurately anna. which other issue did you ever comment on about human rights not linked to the east or muslims? when you want to speak out about injustice, you take a look across the world and then you comment. then you can pump us with your anti-muslim stuffs. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 11:58:53
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good point kay, but what i am aluding to is the generalisation. the issues you raised are good comments but time and again ,we see islam being portrtayed in ways no other religion is . this kay is delibarate. middle eastern have their cultures and sytems. should we speak about them with half-baked facts? this is what is always the case. to make the westen media look objective what every body knows some times come out but not when it is happening. it is important we differeciate how to report on things.
when we talk about western colonialism and oppression, we don't associate with their faith or religion. just because they don't make it ovicous doesn't mean the reasons for subjugation hasn't got religious under tunes. infact must western actions those have religious under tune but that is ignored for convenience sake. with yahya ,it is clear, he does good thins ,i commented on them here in many instances. what i make loud and clear is the fact that he should avoid heavy handedness. when we stop the generalisation then we can avoid bekering and futile merry go round. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 12:07:28
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Who are the 'we' that can see this so 'accurately'? You and you?
Why did nobody react to my posting on Mr Wilders' Fitna movie? i hope you are not counting on me defending myself, summing up all issues where i posted that had nothing to do with 'the east (?) or muslims'. I only post when an issue touches my world: position of women, education, child abuse, my experience in the Gambia. Islam touches my world too: i live with a Gambian muslim.
This is a time to be cool, Santanfara - keep your head or you will make mistakes with your wild accusation. I am sure in an hour you will realise you were wrong. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 17:17:37
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| anna, this time or any other time, i am as cool as a cucumber. i have followed must of your comments here on islamic issues. they are never pretty. your world may have been touch by a muslim but your perception is some what negative. that is my observation. you may call it wild and gullible but puting all the facts together , there is no other conclusion i can make sorry if i offend your person. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 23:38:03
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Kay you are entitled to your opinions, WHETHER FAIR, BALANCED OR BIASED!
As far as am concerned, ITS NO POLITICS BUT ONLY ON THE MESSAGES AND NOT SHOOTING THE MESSENGER!
POINTS FOR CLARIFICATION THAT AM IN THIS DEBATE FOR RESOURCEFUL CONTRIBUTIONS TO EDUCATE THOSE SO-CALLED WEST ABOUT "WHAT THEY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT ISLAM?"& TO DEFEND FALSE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST ISLAM on these PROPAGANDA PRODUCTS & ORIGINAL SOURCE FOR DVD in question forwarded BELOW:-
I) “Islam: What the West Needs to Know” DVD
Davis, Gregory M. and Daly, Bryan, producers under http://www.conservativebookservice.com/products/popreview.asp?prod_cd=c6764
I) Islam: What the West Needs to Know (2007)
Starring: Robert Spencer, Walid Shoebat Director: Gregory M. under http://www.amazon.com/Islam-What-West-Needs-Know/dp/B000PE0GQO/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
II) Islam: What the West Needs to Know (2007)
Starring: Robert Spencer, Walid Shoebat Director: Gregory M. under http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Islam-and-Armageddon/dp/B000J10FMS/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1194659091&sr=1-1
III) Customer Reviews
Islam: What the West Needs to Know under http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000PE0GQO?filterBy=addFourStar
IV) Israel, Islam, and Armageddon
under http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Islam-and-Armageddon/dp/B000J10FMS/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1194659091&sr=1-1
As can be seen from these sources, its about merchandise, HIGH LEVEL POLITICS, PROPAGANDA, IDEOLOGY, TERROSRIM, RELIGIOUS WARS, AMERICAN FARCISM & SAINT GEORGE BUSH WAR ON TERROR!.
FINAL CONCLUSIONS FROM ME:
i) You branded me wrong with OBSESSION ON THIS TOPIC because of my contributions for EDUCATION & FURHER KNOWLEDGE IN ISLAM?
ii)I'VE WORKED VERY HARD TO EXPOSED ORIGINAL SOURCES (REFER ABOVE); & PROVIDED VERY USEFUL RELEVANT LINKS FOR REFERENCES TO LEARN MORE ABOUT ISLAM & TACKLES THE ANSWERS ON ALL QUESTIONS, WRONG PERCEPTIONS, BIASED AND DISTORTIONS!
iii) MY TASK WAS TO DEFEND, CLARIFY & NOT LOOSING ANYTHING BECAUSE WE WERE SEEKING ANSWERS FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT ISLAM!
iv) HOPE THAT YOU (AMONGST OTHERS) HAVE BENEFITED ON ISLAM AS A RELIGION & EXPOSED MORE ON ITS MESSAGES FOR PEACE, GOOD MORALS & BENEFIT OF MANKIND
v) Thanks |
Edited by - kobo on 17 Apr 2008 23:47:21 |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
558 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 12:03:35
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Oh my word! i can't believe this topic is still going on. Kay's posting and poem says it all - 'for all those obsessed with this topic' [e.g. Santanfara and the like]. If that is not enough, I refer you to the history section - where I held a heated discussion with Santanfara on the same topic couple of months ago. Need I say I demolished his argument..
I do not flaunt my religion Santanfara, but as I have told you before, I was brought up in the Islamic faith. Not only have I read the Quran, but had also researched the early beginings of Islam since Mohammad rather than just believing what had been fed on me. Therefore, I am better equiped to pass 'judgement' on Islam than many, especially you - who only believed what you were fed without question. For the last time, stop bringing my 'ancient ancestors' to these discussions. They have long gone and they've done nothing to you. You are being disrespectful.
I will not be posting any more on this silly subject. We have been here before and it's getting boring.
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Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
Edited by - tamsier on 21 Apr 2008 12:31:48 |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 14:43:39
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Acute acute!
there has being some tracing topics even more than a yrs and came rolling back again so far news allows it.
The things is still agile than before, We will not allows to be prosecuted like it happen to some nations or religion before.
We learn from the history how Human is capable of.
To said the Islam stands through sword is worthless,
Can one tell me who was first mistreated or prosecuted and
tell me also which villages first was ruined?
In fact how dose all this starts when Muslim and none Muslims was living door to door?
I know the first person to be killed by Muslim but i also know who first was killed by none Muslim according to the books.
There are very few who real know the fact and sense of the Islam, Yes including some Muslims. I have no trouble with critics but please criticise something with the fact and not just though a hocus-pocus felling!
If i insult or hurt some one on the street will you call it freedom of speech/act?
Why cant you understand that your are hurting some ones , Even though all this crying and indication, means nothing for you?.
How can we be a good neighbour if you don't take a note of my fence.
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 16:45:52
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| that is your business tamsier. if you were brought up a muslim or christian is of no concern to me. the cabbage that you keep fluanting is what i am against not your believe. believe in whatever you wish ,i care less. who narrated the much talked about history you read of islam? distortion and lies is never history but HIS STORY. we see that in mauntain of books daily. may be your mis-historianism is comfusing you. muslim have written their history so we don't accept crap from any socall historian. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 13:14:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
that is your business tamsier. if you were brought up a muslim or christian is of no concern to me. the cabbage that you keep fluanting is what i am against not your believe. believe in whatever you wish ,i care less. who narrated the much talked about history you read of islam? distortion and lies is never history but HIS STORY. we see that in mauntain of books daily. may be your mis-historianism is comfusing you. muslim have written their history so we don't accept crap from any socall historian.
Santafara, you are killing me . You are the true guardian of the faithful, trust me... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 24 Apr 2008 13:15:35 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 21:50:41
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quote:
Originally posted by tamsier
Oh my word! i can't believe this topic is still going on. Kay's posting and poem says it all - 'for all those obsessed with this topic' [e.g. Santanfara and the like].
I disagree with you Tamsier on that point. In my opinion, Kay's poem is out of order and indeed very PROVOCATIVE and slander AGAINST ISLAM. Thats his own ARTS/STYLE & literal skills to communicate his messages. For example, Salmaan Rusdie contradicts ISLAM & Kay endorsed him in his poem! Both Kay & Salmaan Rusdie are entitlled to their opinions but that cannot be THE TRUTH! The DVD in question was well documented by experts to play with our POLITICAL CONSCIENCE. A lot can be gathered about ISLAM from Useful AUTHORITATIVE URLs COURTESY OF ....Shaikh Ahmad Kutty, Senior Lecturer Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada under:-
i) Was Islam Spread at the Point of Sword?
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503544434&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar
ii)Islam & Freedom of Belief by Shaikh Ahmad Kutty http://www.faisalkutty.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=241
iii) GOD VERSUS ALLAH (THE ANTI GOD): EVIL IN THE NAME OF GOD http://godofreason.com/new-page-41.htm
iv) Web page "Islam and freedom of belief Sheikh Ahmad Kutty Senior lecturer at Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario Canada" http://search.virginmedia.com/results/?channel=search&vml=telewest&vmt=&f=0&q=Islam++and+freedom+of+belief+Sheikh+Ahmad+Kutty+Senior+lecturer+at+Islamic+Institute+of+Toronto%2C+Ontario+Canada&cr=&x=27&y=14
According to history Muslims suffered persecution and struggled to DEFEND THEIR FAITH (IN ISLAM!). Then the POLITICS takes PRECEDENCE OVER MESSAGES FROM ISLAM THROUGH HOLY PROPHET MUHAMAD (S.A.W) & HOLY QURAN.
ISLAM HAS NEVER BEEN DEMONISING & VIOLENT AS POTRAIT IN WESTERN MEDIA. ISLAM IS NOT ABOUT DEMONS BUT ABOUT "DEEN OF ALLAH"; i.e religion of BELIEVING IN THERE IS NO DEITY OF WORSHIP EXCEPT ALLAH (ONE AND ONLY ONE GOD, WHOSE ATTRIBUTES INCLUDE BEING DEVINE MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE, CREATOR & ALL BELONGING TO HIM, WITH NO FATHER, MOTHER SON OR DAUGHTER). WAR IS BROUGHT ABOUT BY POWER STRUGGLES, AUTHORITARIAN, POLITICS & WEAK LEADERS (INCLUDING HEADS OF STATES & RELIGIOUS HEADS). The ESSENCE OF ISLAM IS NOT WAR but about A GOOD WAY OF LIFE THROUGH PROPHET MUHAMAD (S.A.W) & HOLY QURAN. There is not much difference with other religions FOR ADVOCACY ON MORALITY. The main differences between religions are on THE FUNDAMENTAL FAITH & ITS RITUAL PRACTISES. Would recommend further research on INTERPRETATIONS OF THE HOLY QURAN & LIFE OF HUMBLE PROPHET MUHAMAD WHO BROUGHT US THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS FROM HIS LAST SERMONS.
Relevant links under Bantaba topic;
i)The Last sermon of Prophet Muhammad under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2477
ii) Quran Made Easy! under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4590
Help yourself with this GREAT POEM & ART courtesy of Dalton under Bantaba topic The God; a poem dedicated to Nabi Muhammad (saw) http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4194
THOSE WHO ARE NOT SEEKING KNOWLEDGE BUT ENGAGED IN POLITICAL BATTLES & ACADEMIC EXERCISE CAN CONTINUE THEIR FUTILE EXERCISE TO DAMAGE THIS GREAT RELIGION OF ISLAM FOR FURTHER REFERENCES, ALL GREAT WESTERN UNIVERSITIES (E.G CAMBRIDGE & OXFORD AMONGST OTHERS) HAVE DONE THOROUGH RESEARCHES ON THE PROPHET, ISLAM & HOLY QURAN.
Thanks!
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Edited by - kobo on 25 Apr 2008 22:06:00 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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