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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 10:36:57
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sankalanka ,in the process of winning potential supporters to pdois cause ,any one can ask who the figures heads of the party are and what they stood for .i am not the relevant person here .i am a nonentity for that matter. i started a topic on gambia l on why many still misunderstood pdois and i explain my take on them .follow the that topic you will know my stand point .
i will paste it on my next reply.
in the politics of personality and ideas ,leaders became the subject matter .in that same process some members or supporters of pdois blame many reason for the party lack of overwelming popularity.number reason cited is the ugly cause of african backsliding 'TRIBALISM' .yet the fingers automatically point at the mandinka population for spear heading that dogma .what i want to verify is whether those we term non-tribalistic are infact tribalist .and those we blame as tribal are wrongly tack with that comments .for my part ,i heard both positive and negative coments about the man HALIFA ,some even as adverse as labelling him a secret tribalist .i don't in princile believe in those assertions or comments ,in that vain ,i again started a topic in gambia l title ''who is really innocent among our leaders of the tribal cancer'' ? .
this is a learning process ,we need to know the fundamental believes of our potential leaers to avoid a reppeat of the current and past leadership styles. if you know the answers to my question bring it on .i am learning and very open minded about politics.the politics of election nearing is not principle.let us know who this leadership contenders are .we should not be blinded by words or deeds alone ,but what a man conceal can potentialy be more dangerous than what he/she says or do . |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 11:13:14
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I do not think tribe is a real issue in Gambian politics, although jammeh's rule appears to bring in a disproportionate number of minorities into the military and the government.
I have spent a lot of time at the PDOIS headquarters in Churchill's town when I was in Gambia, and Sam once reviewed the manuscript of a book I was trying to write. His son used to go to the high school I was teaching at. These are exceptional people in terms of character and political consciousness. They are humble and live great lives of simplicity. They appear to be committed socialists to an extent that worries me a little bit. I am a moderate socialist. The major problem with PDOIS based on my assessment is that they are poorly financed and their style of campaign lacks aggressiveness. These partly explains why the party has not grown as fast as others. As far as decency is concerned , PDOIS is the best in my view. I do not know about their private lives as such ( although I know Sidia has a daughter who went to sixth form with me and later studied in Nigeria)I have not heard any scandal involving these PDOIS trio , Halifa , Sam and Sidia. So I presume the decency of their character and integrity.Others like Nyarikangbanna appears to dislike Halifa because of his perceived intellectuality and larger than life presence , but i do not see any problem with this.Overall , I have confidence in PDOIS and will trust my country with them. |
Edited by - kayjatta on 21 Sep 2007 11:14:04 |
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sankalanka
270 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 19:31:42
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Santanfara,
I read both postings on those links at the Gambia-l. I am convinced that your intentions are a genuine effort to elicit discourse on those issues.
However, there are some people motivated by their conscience, and a desire to end human suffering and exploitation, who have been able to transcend the barriers of tribe or religion. Such people would want to address the needs and aspirations of all people, regardless of what tribe they belong to or what religion they profess. The lives of such people are organized around very strong principles; they are selfless and dedicated to the causes they pursue, and have all the attributes that brings out the best of their humanity.
On the other hand, human society is always govern by diverse interest, and as such is continually in a state of conflict. A conflict of interest. In such a conflict situation, groups will emerge who compete against each other to promote and sustain the interest of the groups they represent. There is also a natural tendency for people who belong to the same tribes, to solicit and appeal to those tribes so that they can strengthen and solidify their positions in these conflict situations, especially when all these groups share the same resource base to support their group interest. In a nutshell, these are the characteristics of tribalism that appeal to other people's values and their shared linkage to some common attribute: their tribal grouping.
I am convinced that Halifa, and by extension PDOIS represent the former. They are conscious of their tribal belonging, but have been able to transcend the barriers of tribe that appeal to a group interest, to develop a systematic approach that would address and satisfy the needs and aspirations of humnity in general. It is an ideal which is also backed by conviction. Many have refused to be boxed into tribal affiliations.
Secondly, in most of these tribal groupings there are always individuals who exploit the tribe; these people have a natural disposition to appeal, to arouse and to incite members of their tribes into some organized activity not necessarily to perpetuate the tribe interest but their own selfish interest.
This becomes evident when we consider that all these group interest tendencies have proved fallicious. As our socities are organized around democratic and constitutional arrangements, it becomes very difficult for those who assumed political power based on tribal appeal and affiliation, to be wholly responsive to their tribal group interest. Once they assumed power they develop new interest circles, thus negating all the other interests that are tribal oriented. In this process only those who are within these new interest circles benefit, while everyone else including the tribes that they represent wallow in a life of poverty and deprivation.
I think we can within the context of the situations I have outlined, identify who are the tribalist and who are free from tribal bigotry.
Be rest assured that the dialogue will soon begin, and those who sympathize with Pdois will be in the forefront to help them build that mass appeal and win potential supporters. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 22:04:39
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great post sankalanka!Again , i do not see tribe as a driving force in Gambian politics . Jawara (as a person of mandingo and rural origin) and other earlier politicians perhaps did a great job in co-opting urban wollofs and other minority groups into the fold either by way of marriage or government post. These actions helped diffuse any potential for tribal competition for power and resources.
Perhaps the small size and population of the Gambian , and subsequently the intense social interaction among the different tribal groups also fostered a greater understanding among the people thereby playing down any strong tribal affiliation. Even the sudden , abrupt ascension of jammeh , a fanatic traditionalist did not shake this inter-tribal rapport in the Gambia. |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 08:00:31
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thanks sanka and kay . i believe in the same theory as well.tribalism is usually over hype .it cannot be a deciding factor in our politics especially on a presidential level i believe .but on a paliamentary level ,it those plays a huge part in deciding the potential winner.
the process for us to trust our potential candidates willingness to embrase every single gambians interest is a starting point.we should desist from the politics of 'ONE EYE ONLY'. if any of us strongly affiliate with pdois fine ,but don't go all the way to underestimate the role other parties can play in moving our country forward.i believe ,we all have similar intentions.
the reason i want us to expose the tribal issue is to kill the remarks that rear it heads all the time.
lets take a look at the pdois executive structure .
formerly the party leader was sedia jatta a mandinka from wulli ,halifa a wollof fom serrekunda ,sam sarr i believe a serere suwaibou touray a mandinka .now during the ppp era why would people choose tribal factor not to vote for pdois ? if the notion that, ppp uses tribalism to win votes ,jawara a mandinka and sedia a mandinka ,it doesn't make sense .
from that perspective ,i came to realise that some thing else most be responsible for pdois's message not being received by the voters the way it should be.
lets take a look at udp leadership structure .the party leader ousanou darboe a mandinka ,femy peters an aku ,etc it deosn't seem to me to be a tribalist party in its make up .that doesn't necessaryly translate into some of the party supporters making comments deemed tribal.but should we blame comments of ordinary individual supporters on a particular party ? i don't think so .
our situation is more opptimistic than we realise .all we need to do is maintain dignity and respect for one another regardless of our different political believes.
yes ,pdois as been on the fore front for over two decade ,yes they engage in civic education ,i will infact write the first words i heard from sedia back in 1987 in my humbel village .he was relating a story then ,i was too young to know what the story meant .guess what ,last night i was reading a book ,and there i show the story ,suddenly my mind went 20 years ago .
this is the story. two frogs dwelt in the same pool.the pool being dreid up under the summer's heat,they left it,and set out together to seek another home.as they went along they chanced to pass a deep well,amply supplied with water,on seeing which one of the frogs said to the other:''let us descend and make our abode in this well,it will shelter and food''.the other frog replied with caution:''but suppose the water fail us,how can we get out again from so great a depth?'' do nothing without a regard to the consiquences. FABLES,AESOP,SIXTH CENTURY B.C.
that story above was my first lesson by a politicain .i am only relaying that story to indicate that i am well aware of the stand point of pdois .but i will also caution us to avoid character assasisnation of other none-pdois politicains untill we can substantiate our facts. the mear fact that we don't aggree with the methods they use to win elections or the lack of agendas that we aggree with is not sufficient to drow the the darkers out .unity comes in many ways ,let us exust that chanel.
now who is halifa for us to quarantee him with the mantle to head our country ? yet we have not state any thing specific about him .shall we also at this point bring in who is ousanou darboe ?
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Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 12:23:04
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| Attention admin@gambia.dk and Gainako websites! Do we have on record P.D.O.I.S party manifesto to update this topic and what P.D.O.I.S stands for? Some of us do buy that that they stand for empowerment of the people and independence of the people from what!!!(The Capital "P" and "I"); But what is their perception of Democracy (The Capital "D"); Is it the same as that of U.D.P's democracy and other parties with advocacy for democracy?; What type of Socialism (The Capital "S") etc etc. |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 15:48:36
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you are right kobo .we may deal with the party manifestos here as well.i remember nyarikanbana forwarding a udp manifesto a while ago ,that may be retrived ,also the pdois manifesto can also be pasted here.
it takes minds to decide better future not hearts .by compairing and contrasting a dialogue and bridge could be created. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 18:48:11
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
I do not think tribe is a real issue in Gambian politics, although jammeh's rule appears to bring in a disproportionate number of minorities into the military and the government.
I have spent a lot of time at the PDOIS headquarters in Churchill's town when I was in Gambia, and Sam once reviewed the manuscript of a book I was trying to write. His son used to go to the high school I was teaching at. These are exceptional people in terms of character and political consciousness. They are humble and live great lives of simplicity. They appear to be committed socialists to an extent that worries me a little bit. I am a moderate socialist. The major problem with PDOIS based on my assessment is that they are poorly financed and their style of campaign lacks aggressiveness. These partly explains why the party has not grown as fast as others. As far as decency is concerned , PDOIS is the best in my view. I do not know about their private lives as such ( although I know Sidia has a daughter who went to sixth form with me and later studied in Nigeria)I have not heard any scandal involving these PDOIS trio , Halifa , Sam and Sidia. So I presume the decency of their character and integrity.Others like Nyarikangbanna appears to dislike Halifa because of his perceived intellectuality and larger than life presence , but i do not see any problem with this.Overall , I have confidence in PDOIS and will trust my country with them.
Kayjatta, you are entirely wrong in your assertions above. I have said that the bloke does not worth hating. So I don't know why you suspect me to hate him. Also, about his intellect, I have seen nothing extra-ordinary in it. Some people do have natural oratory skills, which he may have but I have always [since I was in High school] noticed gaps and inconsistencies in his arguments. For example, just recently, he posited to 'The point Newspaper' that for parties to continue selecting one person as flag bear is not a good thing. I am not interested in the relevance or lack of it of this statement because it doesn't matter but if you look at the history of his original party [PDOIS] which has been around for over two decades, the only flagbearer they ever produced is Sedia Jatta. So, when did 'choosing one person as flag bear for eternity' became an issue for him or to Gambian politics? This is utter deception. Isn't it? Well, what else can it be? I think there is a difference between being a knowledge propergator and being a complete nuisance. When it comes to the debate regarding inter opposition party relations, I would give the later to HALIFA.
About his education, yes he may earned a Master Degree but that is not unique anymore as we have hundreds of Gambians with MA/MSC. So what is this hype about HALIFA? It is all fanaticism. Nonsense! As far as am concern, his CV is not appealing.
When I was at High School, I used to be the PRO for several clubs including the Liberal Arts Society, and one of my task used to be organising educative events like symposium. I have always make sure that HALIFA is not invited to any of them and I have always prevailed. He is too pompous, corny and arrogant. No one can debate with him because he always want it his way. That is certainly not an interllectual virtue. It is called arrogance.
I leave you with this quote 'If you think you knowledge all, then you don't know anything'
Thanks |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 22 Sep 2007 19:42:47 |
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jammin
Jamaica
149 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 20:04:44
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Nyarikangbanna, analyze this statement:
quote:
Kayjatta, you are entirely wrong in your assertions above. I have said that the bloke does not worth hating.
This statement says one thing, but suggest another. simply put, you are saying that you have such low regards for the man that Hating him would be a waste of emotion, and therefore belies your true feelings.
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Like a colossus He doth bestride the Narrow World |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 20:35:41
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Thanks Nyarikangbanna , you may have some valid points here and I will have to acknowledge you for that. Afterall , our public officials should be up for public scrutiny. But a point of clarification , I did not say that you "hate" Mr. Sallah, I did say that you "dislike" him. . The two words are different in intensity .To say that halifa is "not worth anyone's hate" is the obvious expression of your dislike for this man. Of course you are entitled to that. There may not be anything extra-ordinary about Halifa's academic credentials , but this man obviously stands tall among educated men and women not because he is a genius but perhaps because he believe in the life-long pursuit of knowledge. You know Albert Einstein, who many considered a world-class genius of all times , said that real education only starts after you finish formal education. Einstein himself was never very good at school. The probelm with many educated people everywhere is that they do not read or study to keep abreast with their descipline and current trends in knowledge. as a result they atrophe .
I agree with Halifa's statement that parties should not continue to select only one person as leader all the time. This , I know appears contrary to the practices of PDOIS , but it might be also good to consider that Halifa is only one of the leaders in PDOIS so his will may not always prevail. But I look forward to the day in the Gambia when all parties conduct primaries to select their presidential candidates.
I have watched halifa at many symposia and other gatherings across the Gambia for several years , and I have the notion that Mr. Sallah is very compromising and cooperative, although i understand your frustration over his sometimes insistence on his position on issues , but. |
Edited by - kayjatta on 22 Sep 2007 20:43:13 |
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sankalanka
270 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 21:49:38
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Kayjatta,
Your observation is quite valid. Thanks for the rejoinder.
People have all the rights to form their opinions about other people; they have all the rights to entertain certain perceptions, which may have the appearance of truth about other people, nonetheless the truth of the matter is that our subjective inclinations do give perspective to such opinions and perceptions. Just like you observe, sometimes it just boils down to like or dislike of the person.
I have a completely different understanding of Halifa when it comes to arrogance; I have a completely different understanding of him also when it comes to intellectual grandstanding. Infact, what a Pdois member constitutes is the very opposite of what is being insinuated by some. I don't think Halifa has ever made issue of his education, neither does any of the other PDOIS leadership.
Among other tasks that qualify a PDOIS member, "a Pdois member should be a community-oriented person. Such a person should attend all the activities people are engaged in his or her community, such as burials as long as time permits."
"A PDOIS member should be able to clarify issues for people and be willing to seek for more ideas if he or she finds himself or
herself not adequately prepared"
"A PDOIS member should strive to persuade rather than impose his or her views."
The above are some of the tenets that constitute a Pdois membership. And Halifa being a member of PDOIS, if I have to examine his position against all the other tenets that the party has instituted for its membership, then the charge of arrogance and intellectual grandstanding will be negated.
An attempt will be made to exhaustively dilate on the conception of PDOIS, its fundamental principles and its aims and objectives. This way there will be no doubt in people's minds as to what are the ultimate goals of the party.
A request has been made to make available the Pdois manifesto, which by itself can present a more clearer picture. However, the dialogue will continue. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2007 : 02:51:48
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Am very impressed with this amount of progress. Thats the level of INFORMATIVE, QUALITY & SUBSTANCE we need on ISSUES!. Our expectations are on balanced /fair; mature /sober elites and not weak /poor perforamnces or intellectual dis-honesty 
Lets move on to FORWARD THE GAMBIA OUR HOMELAND! |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2007 : 13:17:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
When I was at High School, I used to be the PRO for several clubs including the Liberal Arts Society, and one of my task used to be organising educative events like symposium. I have always make sure that HALIFA is not invited to any of them and I have always prevailed. He is too pompous, corny and arrogant. No one can debate with him because he always want it his way. That is certainly not an interllectual virtue. It is called arrogance.
I leave you with this quote 'If you think you knowledge all, then you don't know anything'
Thanks
You have said it all that you do not like Halifa since your high school days for the records of this forum. For your information; courtesy of Turk! "STOP SHOOTING AT THE MESSENGER AND FOCUS ON THE MESSAGE!" I must re-iterate that we are dealing with ISSUES AND CURRENT POLITICAL EVENTS FOR THE MOTHERLAND.
Therefore base your arguments or any constructive critisms in the NATIONAL DEBATE to counter what flows (i.e. ideas, opinions, proposals, statements & comments) from Halifa.
Lets move on to FORWARD THE GAMBIA OUR HOMELAND! |
Edited by - kobo on 23 Sep 2007 13:33:35 |
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