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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 11:31:05
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quote:
Originally posted by twinkly
How about all the men who were FORCED by your government to help the British in WW2? Do you really think Westafricans wanted to help in this war?
No they were just taken, yet again.
They took them to be on the front without giving them accurate training.No choice!!!!!
And do you think those who survived got any recognition by your government?
No just throw them back, they don't need pension or pay
OK, so do you think british men got adequate training? Do you think they were given adequate pensions or pay? Did you think they were given a choice whether to fight or not? Do you think they were given a choice when commanded to go "over the top" knowing full well they were going to their death? Or being shot for cowardice when when they refused to do so. "My government"...sorry i wasnt around then, i know you would love to think I was responsible. |
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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 11:39:27
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Kisley
You are proud because your grandad was fighting for HIS country.
Many Gambians were taken to fight for Your country, a war which had nothing to do with THEM.
And yes, the training and reward WAS different.Or do you know any African who got recognition and appreciation for the help and support they gave?
I don't think so.Many people don't even know they stole Africans to fight in WW2.
Please don't add things to my postings I never wrote.How can I hold you responsible? |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 11:41:22
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
I read the article which was great. I really appreciate how europeans actually are accused falsely about slavery, native american holocoust and colonization. I was convinced that whatever I learnt was false. I will unlearn everything. Please accept my apology for accusing europeans for these actions. The article change my life and how I am thinking. Great.
Everyone is disgusted about slavery, and by asking you to read this link i was not excusing the british role. But i am under the impression from reading your posts (and others) that because i am british, that i am responsible for slavery and all the ills in the world.
The link quoted some facts about slavery which i had never heard before, I wanted your opinion on the authenticity of these facts..as we all know that we cannot believe everything we read. I came on this site to learn and thats what i feel i am doing. But that does not mean that i shouldnt be allowed to put my feelings accross. You got upset when gambiabev made, what you thought were negative comments about your country, so pls dont feel insulted when i feel the same about your opinions. |
Edited by - kisley on 01 Sep 2007 12:09:23 |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 12:07:31
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quote:
Originally posted by twinkly
Kisley
You are proud because your grandad was fighting for HIS country.
Many Gambians were taken to fight for Your country, a war which had nothing to do with THEM.
And yes, the training and reward WAS different.Or do you know any African who got recognition and appreciation for the help and support they gave?
I don't think so.Many people don't even know they stole Africans to fight in WW2.
Please don't add things to my postings I never wrote.How can I hold you responsible?
So do you think the war had anything to do with my grandfather and my brother. Working class people who were treat like **** by their government, and their ancestors before them.
we didnt have to enter into another war....we could quite easily have stayed neutral... a lot of countries did.
I watched a programme about \people who had won the "victoria cross" for bravery. It showed footage of a proud widow... cuddling her young child, and her other children, oblivious to the whole thing, playing around her feet. We found out in this programme that the children were later put into care because she coulDnt afford to feed them.
Rifleman Tullbahadur Pun, Gurkha Rifles, Indian Army, also won the "victoria cross", but when he tried to apply to live in britain he was told "he had no strong ties".
ALL people have suffered, and many still are. Thats why i try to be proactive..ok theres not a lot i can personally do, but by educating myself and learning from other peoples opinions, then i can pass this on to my children, and their childrens children. |
Edited by - kisley on 01 Sep 2007 12:19:39 |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 12:12:32
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Originally posted by kobo
History help us understand how far we have gone with development of mankind under different eras and ages ago..........
Kisley, I do understand and appreciate your viewpoints but no want is pointing accusing fingers at anybody..........
there speaks the voice of reason |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 20:55:18
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quote:
OK, so do you think british men got adequate training?
You still don't get the point. Brits fought for THEIR war. Your colonial servants fought for YOU.
quote:
we didnt have to enter into another war....we could quite easily have stayed neutral... a lot of countries did.
Ahem. Sacrifice? For the world? Are you saying Brits fought the war to protect the world from Hitler? Don't make me laugh. You sound like dubya who went attack on iraq to "protect iraqis". Are you telling me you could have stayed natural. I think only Spain and Turkey was natural in the WWII. Hitler thought he did not suck the world enough, Brits went to war to protect what he sucked. Plain and simple. Brits could not or would not stay neutral. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 01 Sep 2007 20:58:05 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 21:27:47
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Turk I really dont understand the anger in your posting. What does suck mean in this context?
Hilter and his men did unspeakable things to Jews and gays. Do you think he should have just been allowed to carry on and be a tyrant gradually taking over the world?
There was a real fear in UK that he would invade. Remember he took the channel isles, so was very close.
It wasnt a war of UK starting or choosing. But a war to defend yourself I feel is a just war.
Many civilians and servicemen and women were killed.
May parents were both children during the second world war. They lived a life being frightened their parents would be killed. They had rationing for food and other goods and lived in fear of bombs droping on their homes. They often spent nights in shelters and had to take gas masks to school.
We tend to think of it as 'history', but there are many people still alive that it is still very real for. Also many families are missing relatives because they paid the ultimate sacrifice.
Ordinary working class men had no choice about serving in the services. They were conscripted. Mostly they were very young with very little training or equipment. They didnt ask to go to war. It wasnt their war.
I feel the second world war was a just war. I am generally anti war, anti fighting, anti arguments even! I much prefer a quiet life where people live in peace.
MOST wars since the second world war have been about politics, resources, claiming territory etc..... But the second world war was about defending the UK from Hilter and stopping his slaughter of the Jews.
Have you ever met anyone that has been in a concentration camp? I have met several Jews now living in Israel that still have a number branded on their wrist from the camps. It is terrible to see, it reminds us of mans inhumanity to man. These people were rescued be british troops. They had been treated like cattle, in constant fear of death.
Turk in general I am a pacifist, but there are occasions when you have to stand up to a bully. That is very different to being proactive in wars in the way USA has been. I am totally against them interferring across the world. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 21:39:16
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Yes Hitler and his men did unspeakable things to Jews and gays. So does the british empire. My reaction to a thought that "we fight against hitler for you", which is not true. Brit had self interest when they fight against Hitler. They fight to defend british empire. And there is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong;, promoting the fight against Hitler is to protect the world. That is not the reality. It may be in british schools. Many killed died. Yeah, but people died for to defend their country.
It is like you went to war to iraq, to protect your interests and ask me to believe in you that you are there to help iraqis, to defend democracy blah blah. No you are there for your self-interests. You fought against hitler for your self-interests. You will not get any credit from me.
Summary, thirld world did not have the same motivation as brits to fight against hitler. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 22:04:39
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I agree we fought for self interest, self preservation. If we hadnt then as Hilter took more ground it could have been that some developing countries might have had to take up the fight for themselves.
I agree all history is biased by which side you are on. It is difficult to write a totally neutral account. The BBC used to have a reputation for being even handed. I am not sure that is any longer the case. Newspapers are the mouth pieces of their owners these days too.
We should read as much as possible and weigh up the different persectives and come to a version of 'truth'. I must confess to not being very interested in 'war history' I am more interested in people and therefore in social history. So the thing that interested me about 2nd world war was the 'home front'. How the women became strong and empowered whilst the men were away. How they survived day to day. Also the survivors stories from the camps.
To me ALL war is very sad. It is when talking has broken down and people resort to their basic instincts. Think of all the wasted lives on all sides of all wars throughout history. What was gained and was it worth it? In most cases I think the answer is no a BIG NO!
In principle I am anti war. In most cases I would urge politicians to think again, try diplomacy again.....But very occasionally it becomes an evil necessity. World war two was considered such a war by most people in Uk at the time. |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 10:36:18
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Brit had self interest when they fight against Hitler. They fight to defend british empire.
In your opinion |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 10:37:41
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
You will not get any credit from me.
dont flatter yourself |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 11:37:47
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quote:
In your opinion
Are you denying that Brits had self interest when they fight against Hitler. They fight to defend british empire. If you do support your opinion with supporting arguments and facts.
Well when you look at the history, brits were worse than hitler to the third world countries? No? He did not colonize no third world countries, did not involve slavery, did not massacre americas, australia etc... He was your enemy, you fought with brits, he lost. Actually, both have one thing common, each destroyed one native americans and jews.
Tinsley, if you feel better, i can 'thank' for fighting with Hitler. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 16:04:14
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| You know what you are Turk, an angry little man full of hate and bitterness.(scratch the surface and all the hatred comes out) What are you doing to help your fellow gambians.. (at least my grandfather had "balls") ..... sitting at a computer ranting, because someone dares to disagree. That must take real courage. As i said before we dont need YOUR praise...DONT FLATTER YOURSELF... |
Edited by - kisley on 02 Sep 2007 16:44:23 |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 16:05:37
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Tinsley, if you feel better, i can 'thank' for fighting with Hitler.
Turk, if it makes you feel better, I can apologise for being British |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 18:41:56
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quote:
Originally posted by kisley
quote:
Originally posted by turk
Tinsley, if you feel better, i can 'thank' for fighting with Hitler.
Turk, if it makes you feel better, I can apologise for being British
Don't you dare  ,you are what you are and should be proud of it , unless of course you are English   and not scottish,scotland has the upper hand now and everyone else dosn't stand a chance! Free care for Old people, free prescriptions for medicine ,no university fees,England where is that  |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 02 Sep 2007 18:49:31 |
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