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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 19:48:00
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Sister Omega
If the Laws of Gambia were not broken and shattered in an illegal affairs like coup, Jammeh would have been in jail. What he did (coup) is known as treason in legal language. What PROOFS are you parading with? You know that Jammeh has robbed the nation of our good laws. How do we reconcile the COUP element of our political history? Leave it to pass go? No, get your head straight. |
Karamba |
Edited by - Karamba on 29 Jul 2007 20:09:33 |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 20:38:14
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Karamba Jawara in his interview stated he knew it was all over when the coup arrived as already mentioned here. If Jawara was doing such a good job as President why was there much no resistance? Which has already been mentioned by Madiba. Now those who come out in favor for the old regime mainly are the ones who themselves directly or indirectly were the elites of Gambia or 1st class citizens. Who received all expenses paid scholarships in order to pose as little rich kids in the west and elsewhere.
Karamba no matter how much you struggle with coming to terms with the changes over the past 13 years, you can never turn back the clock. The coup happened and since then Gambia has been advancing further but still has a long way to go!
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 20:52:54
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Sister Omega,
Jawara is not Gambia, though a Gambian like anyone. The issue at hand is not about what Jawara did or did not do. The question is, what is the justification for Jammeh to kill and maim Gambians? Struggle !! Did I get that word clear. You are in serious error if you think I am struggling. I am simply one of the keepers of what belongs to Gambians. If Jawara says it is OVER as in your words, that's up to him. This state of affairs marred with killings and state organised thuggery is not right; legally, politically, and the least humanly. Get that? |
Karamba |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 21:07:40
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Sis Omega you have said it all. Karamba is only ranting without any evidence. I begin to suspect him as a beneficiary of The Jawara mayhem. Because Jammeh and co chased those RATS (durumoos) they are crying for his blood. This is wat i hate to see. In them glorifying the PPP regime, makes Jammeh a FREEDOM FIGHTER in my eyes.
Lets accept facts. Deception is no longer possible. The failure and mayhem of the PPP brought in the APRC. Like it or not thats the whole truth. I am democratic, but if i had joined the ARmy , came 22 July 1994, i would have joined the coup makers. I would have suggested the Rawlings execution style for these vampires. Beleive me i would have ensured they were all taken to Maccarthy square and shot like traitors. These beasts milked the Gambians worse than the Bristish colonialists. Yet they still have the audacity to eulogise? They should apologise instead.
The PPP supporters are grumbling as if their hegemony was divine ordered.
Watever befalls Gambians today, is becos the PPP overstayed their welcome, looted everything and killed many.
Did i hear Karamba saying killers, Why was the venerable Sheikh Hatab Incacerated by the PPP? Why was Commercial bank bankcrupt?, Who killed Gpmb?
I will find time and complete a write-up on the worst gov't Africa has seen. |
madiss |
Edited by - MADIBA on 29 Jul 2007 21:18:16 |
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Janyanfara
Tanzania
1350 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 22:59:56
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Hello madiba Jammeh and sister omega jammeh,
I for one am neither Janyanfara jawara or Jammeh for I don't support any of them I only support the Gambia.As to class,well I would say I entered what you might call second class during Jammeh days but even that is out of my own sweat.
I thinkif we all go by what we preach,democracy should include freedom of association this should not make any a Jawaraite or Jammehrite.
As I read Bantaba,I sence some of us writers do really have behavioral problems which is a broad range of human problems including anxity (they want people to agree with their views on Jammeh or Jawara),phobias (they are died hards that would never see faults even if they step on one),overeacting(when you respond to their comments they go buuuuum).Some of us have suttering behaviors,enuresis and encopressis ect.Human ecology has it that people who hate have one or two of the above.Man needs to love and be loved.Every human being wants positive reinforcement to combat challenges faced as they days come and go.We need to apply extinction to decrease undesired behavior.
From the above brother madiba and sister omega,I call you two Jammeh which you should be proud of as you do like what Jammeh does. I think thats why you are die hards.Fine no problem with this as you are free to have your choice.Likewise Jawara diehards then do feel their man is faultless.But I think Jammeh/Jawara critics do also should have the same rights to criticise when and where they please without fear of any harm in their way.How do you compare then and now as to the two leaders?
sister omega when you asked karamba to go home and say those things in Jammeh's face,you meant that karamba would face helldon't you? and this is true.If in a democratic society praise singers are free to praise,then those who think otherwise should also be allowed to have their voice heard.
Please don't get me wrong am not castigating anyone here,am only being honest.Jawara cannot in anyway in MY OPINION be compared to Jammeh in terms of good governance.
peace and may God continue His blessings on the Gambia and Her people.
Amen!
Janyanfara |
Edited by - Janyanfara on 29 Jul 2007 23:04:40 |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 23:49:23
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Janyanfara,
When you step on the tail-end of a snake, the immediate natural reaction is agression. You may as well expect a bite if the snake retains its teeth. In a similar analogy, step on Jammeh's tail-end, expect a hostile reaction from all gategories of the July 22 snakes to coil in for your boots. That is exactly how to tell the difference between progressive and reactionary forces as we freely exchange our texts in Bantaba. In the course of it, so many things will expose. We will be exposed to the shallow depths of minor thinkers. We will also be blessed to get the nectar of wisdom from your good self and many others, needless to name. This is also a race and those who keep no fibre to resist the truth will surrender their emotional weaknesses by anger and despair. Without naming names, let us all tender our views and the wise among us will tell who is taking us where. The most accurate barometer to measure truth and false is by feeling the pulse of those who utter or write them. What we are on is not simply comparing Jammeh and Jawara. We are asking if it is justifiable for Jammeh to kill citizens because they disagree with him. Madiba now confirms he would have killed like Jammeh does. That is not for my personal consumption, gentleman. One thing you can never score is, dragging me into a personal tussel. I am OK with whoever rules Gambia as long as that person is not a killer. You mentioned about the institutions. That is not for me either. Just a point of correction, economic and financial establishments get bankrupt and defunct and not get killed. Even when they get KILLED as you wish to have it understood, experts can revive them. When a person is killed, life is not a token to be replaced. You may go on speculating whatever you think of me. That is the beauty of the human mind. Feel free. Use all sorts of words and not one of them will prompt me to choose playing abusive. That is your choice and by all means if that pleases you, go ahead. I am not the subject and will never be drawn in. Let us get focused.
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Karamba |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 23:58:34
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Brother Janyanfara, I apologize if I offend you by comparing you to Jammeh. I was simply trying to make paralels to support my arguement. It looks like you are guilty of the same by calling those folks Jammeh. Anyway, I will let you deal with that, on my side my apology.
I must make one thing very clear and I think we should agree to disagree when it comes to Jawara and Jammeh. I must say that I have a lot of respect for all of you regardless of what side you support.
The concluding fact is that whatever Jammeh does in Gambia today Jawara has a responsibility in it. Had he not kept us ignorant and uneducated, we would have never gotten to Jammeh's era.
Had he Jawara stepped aside, created term limit and vacate the government we would have never gotten to Jammeh era.
Had he strengthen our democratic process and created strong institutions of democracy and human rights? we would have never seen and era like Jammeh's where people can be arrest and jailed without due process.
Had he Jawara created a strong foundation and transformed our society from a grab all you can to a sense of togetherness and national pride, corruption would have been a thing of the past.
Had Jawara not created an army, not rely on foreign soldiers to protech him, our junior soldiers would have never taken over power.
So folks, with all honestly we must look back to where we came from, where we are now and where do we go from there. Our democratic foundation was ROTTEN, our social stigma was corrupt and misrepresenting. As a result of all those failures which couldn't be corrected for 30 years, we woke up to an unknown era, the Jammeh Era.
It took Jawara 40 years to realize his mistakes. Come on! Jammeh is a product of Jawara's political proclaimation. He has no reference and no political nurturing apart from what Jawara called DEMOCRACY.
Honestly, if I were part of the Army in the 1990s, I would have joined the revolution to get rid of a government that perpetuated itself in power for 30 years without results. Yes, military take overs are wrong, but civilian clinch onto power by suppressing the fundamental democratic values of citizens is even worst.
Jawara would never have been defeated by elections because he controlled the voting machinery. He appointed returning officers, he had no independent electoral commission. Our voter registration was flawed to the extend that one voter could vote hundred times because you could not establish identity.
Folks where does the problem start? Who failed to create the foundation before chaos began? Who could blame a high school student who happen to find himself in power? Please put the debate into its right perspective and you will see the paralel between Jammeh and Jawara. One is the product of the other...
PLEASE Don't tell me Jawara offered to step down. It was a plot to replace some so called loyalist. And he did exactly that.
Long live history and accountability... |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 00:55:50
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Ajaarma Mawdo Demba for speaking my mind. I wanted to reply to Janyfara , Jawara's griot and Karamba, Jammeh's premier hater, but your reply was spot on. Free of any ambiguity. Tanks once again.
However,I need not affirm the true love i have for The Gambia my homeland. BUt wat i despise is intellectual dishonesty, unfortunately we have it galore here. If in re-affirming Jawara's hegemony and brutal rule make's me a Jammeh supporter so be it. I have harped on the burning issues of The Gambia where i put Jammeh and his gov't under the spotlight. It is for those with eyes to see. For those that have scales of hate on their eyes would never see that.
To tell you the truth i don't really care how you label me. The essential is that Allah, the God i serve knows how i live my life and how i relate to my fellow humanbeings.
Karamba i would re-iterate it again, i would have slaughtered all those beasts who wrecked havoc on the Gambians masses for ages. I would not have a blinked for once. Have they not killed? They have killed a people's hope and livelihood. Most of the masses are dead men walking.
Anyway i rest my case. Good nite to you all |
madiss |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 06:09:55
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"Karamba i would re-iterate it again, i would have slaughtered all those beasts who wrecked havoc on the Gambians masses for ages. I would not have a blinked for once. " Madiba.
If you won't mind, you better calculate the above utterance. In all honesty, it is worth condemnation by each and every decent contributor here, including the forum admins, while they are watching this issue being debated.
Until then, I ask others to restraint from contributing to this topic. I hold onto any further opinion on this topic until this matter is amicably addressed by our forum masters and contributors.
Dalton. |
"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 11:55:07
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Dalton1 i have calculated it very well. Its not right for me to call those people beasts and threaten to have them shot, but its ok for people to insult Jammeh and others in the most appalling way. It is also ok for people to insult others and even go beyond them to their parents? Look my brother i know exactly wat am saying. I have no guns, no weapon to carry that out now and in future. Wat i said was, if I was a Soldier before 1994, came the coup i would have done that.
Well until you are seconded on your motion for people to condemn, i still maintain my stance. No worries, no regrets. |
madiss |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 18:21:40
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quote:
Originally posted by dbaldeh
Honestly, if I were part of the Army in the 1990s, I would have joined the revolution to get rid of a government that perpetuated itself in power for 30 years without results. Yes, military take overs are wrong, but civilian clinch onto power by suppressing the fundamental democratic values of citizens is even worst.
I find the above statements very disturbing. Changing a democratically elected government by any means other than the ballot is a treasonable act.
It does not matter if that Govt. is developing the country or not. Once they have been selected by the MAJORITY then it should be subjected to majority decision and not one person or group taking the law into their hands and speak on our behalf.
The majority would not have given you a mandate to do that and to seize it by force is a serious offence. As to whether that Govt is good or bad is for the majority to decide. If every one who feels that the Govt is not working well and then organise a coup, then expect 1.5million coups in the Gambia.
Are you then saying that Halifa should take up arms and organise a coup because he feels we are not doing well. How about Hamat Bah, Mr. Gomez, Darboe Waa etc. Each of these individuals have different concepts of what is good governance and hence each is expected to organise a coup against the orther.
Democracy is about patience. If you loose the elections, try harder and convince people to your side and eventually you might succeed.
Be rest assured that if Halifa does that, i will join the army and defend the constitution of the Gambia as a Republic. I believe in the ballot box and not any means necessary. Its like the computer terminolog: garbage in garbage out. If you live by the sword you die by the sword.
Democracry has its shortcomings and one of those is the notion that the majority is always right. Sometimes the majority is wrong but democracy is simply a government based on the majority imposing its will on the minority.
What most people fail to understand is that "development" cannot be forced on people. They must be able to absorb it and value it.
So exercise a lot of patience if you want to be a true democrat otherwise, attempting to take power by force only breed a similar cycle which in the end, stifles democracy.
POWER TO THE PEOPLE. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 19:35:56
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| There is an interesting chemistry emerging from this episode. It appears like the banana and saw-dust mixture Yahya Jammeh doses his HIV/AIDS patients is being tasted by the cyber rebels in the name of July 22 Revolution. It is exciting to imagine how easily this Jammeh revolutionaries react with such high emotional vapour. What a contradiction!! An illegal coup replacing a democractic government and now ready to kill all decent citizens for refusing to accept illegal rule !!! This is a great wonder. With time, we will come to know who the real revolutionaries are. The July coup is not a revolution. It was simply an armed robbery of a democratically constituted government. Whether that government was headed by a devil called Jawara or enjoyed by Jahumpa, Njie, Kelepha Samba, Jerreh Daffeh, or Sheriff Dibba/Sisay. The truth remains; this was an orderly system of democracy. It was such democracy brought to the grounds. That is the issue. It appears like the banana and saw-dust is working for the revolutionaries, with so much energy reserved in their belly walls, to defend the revolution that never is/was. We are in for serious problems unless this brutal regime is unseated. |
Karamba |
Edited by - Karamba on 30 Jul 2007 20:46:01 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 19:38:37
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quote:
Originally posted by dbaldeh
Brother Janyanfara, I apologize if I offend you by comparing you to Jammeh. I was simply trying to make paralels to support my arguement. It looks like you are guilty of the same by calling those folks Jammeh. Anyway, I will let you deal with that, on my side my apology.
I must make one thing very clear and I think we should agree to disagree when it comes to Jawara and Jammeh. I must say that I have a lot of respect for all of you regardless of what side you support.
The concluding fact is that whatever Jammeh does in Gambia today Jawara has a responsibility in it. Had he not kept us ignorant and uneducated, we would have never gotten to Jammeh's era.
Had he Jawara stepped aside, created term limit and vacate the government we would have never gotten to Jammeh era.
Had he strengthen our democratic process and created strong institutions of democracy and human rights? we would have never seen and era like Jammeh's where people can be arrest and jailed without due process.
Had he Jawara created a strong foundation and transformed our society from a grab all you can to a sense of togetherness and national pride, corruption would have been a thing of the past.
Had Jawara not created an army, not rely on foreign soldiers to protech him, our junior soldiers would have never taken over power.
So folks, with all honestly we must look back to where we came from, where we are now and where do we go from there. Our democratic foundation was ROTTEN, our social stigma was corrupt and misrepresenting. As a result of all those failures which couldn't be corrected for 30 years, we woke up to an unknown era, the Jammeh Era.
It took Jawara 40 years to realize his mistakes. Come on! Jammeh is a product of Jawara's political proclaimation. He has no reference and no political nurturing apart from what Jawara called DEMOCRACY.
Honestly, if I were part of the Army in the 1990s, I would have joined the revolution to get rid of a government that perpetuated itself in power for 30 years without results. Yes, military take overs are wrong, but civilian clinch onto power by suppressing the fundamental democratic values of citizens is even worst.
Jawara would never have been defeated by elections because he controlled the voting machinery. He appointed returning officers, he had no independent electoral commission. Our voter registration was flawed to the extend that one voter could vote hundred times because you could not establish identity.
Folks where does the problem start? Who failed to create the foundation before chaos began? Who could blame a high school student who happen to find himself in power? Please put the debate into its right perspective and you will see the paralel between Jammeh and Jawara. One is the product of the other...
PLEASE Don't tell me Jawara offered to step down. It was a plot to replace some so called loyalist. And he did exactly that.
Long live history and accountability...
My brother you are spot on! I am really awed by the way you nicely put this piece.
I dont see anything wrong with Madiba has said. Jawara and his cohorts detroyed Gambia at its most delicate time of need by plundering and savaging the lives and the wealth Gambians. What ever Jammeh commits today, the old man has a share in it because he created an environment that Jammeh continues to thrive in.
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"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 19:51:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Karamba
There is an interesting chemistry emerging from this episode. It appears like the banana and saw-dust mixture Yahya Jammeh doses his HIV/AIDS patients is being tasted by the cyber rebels in the name of July 22 Revolution. It is exciting to imagine how easily this Jammeh revolutionaries react with such high emotional vapour. What a contradiction!! An illegal coup replacing a democractic government and now ready to kill all decent citizens for refusing to accept illegal rule !!! This is a great wonder. With time, we will come to know who the real revolutionaries are. The July coup is not a revolution. It was simply a armed robbery of a democratically constituted government. Whether that government was headed by a devil called Jawara or enjoyed by Jahumpa, Njie, Kelepha Samba, Jerreh Daffeh, or Sheriff Dibba/Sisay. The truth remains; this was an orderly system of democracy. It was such democracy brought to the grounds. That is the issue. It appears like the banana and saw-dust is working for the revolutionaries, with so much energy reserved in their belly walls, to defend the revolution that never is/was. We are in for serious problems unless this brutal regime is unseated.
What was orderly during the PPP's "orderly system of democracy," or better still, 30 years of pro-regressive rule? If you mean orderly, so that corruption and mismanagement of public funds by Jawara and his fellow criminals to continue unabated then you are right. I am beginning to understand the psyche behind most of your postings. Your problem is you were never in touch with reality. You probably dont know anything about the sufferings of the average gambian masses. Honestly, I will not be surprise if you were not part of the honchos who plundered our nation.
The fact remains that Jawara created the whole Jammeh mess and you seem to be trying so hard to disassociate those two by just focusing on Jammeh and his crimes. How much can you continue to beat up on a dead horse? |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
Edited by - mansasulu on 30 Jul 2007 19:53:36 |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 20:32:17
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quote:
Originally posted by dbaldeh
Jawara would never have been defeated by elections because he controlled the voting machinery. He appointed returning officers, he had no independent electoral commission. Our voter registration was flawed to the extend that one voter could vote hundred times because you could not establish identity.
Do you mean to say we have an independent electoral commission? Come one Baldeh you can do better. How many of them have been fired so far and have you been given a reason yet?. Who appoints them now. You must be kidding. Is Jammeh not the one who hires and fires them? Are you from Neptune?
As to voting many times or its possibility, what planet are you on? Have you not heard or read the Supreme Court ruling that even if one's name is not on the register of voters, one can always vote in an election. That ruling opens up a back door printing of voters cards to those who may not qualify in the first place.
With this Supreme Court ruling, the section of our electoral laws which requires the publication of names in the electoral register for the public to challenge the names, should have been deleted by the national Assembly because its no longer relevant. But no one cares.
Atleast under the PPP, it was a clear rule that if one's name is not on the register then one cannot vote. This makes the publication of names at public venues like market places, Bantabas, etc useful means of checks and balances. If i remember vividly, some names were challenged in the courts but i have not heard of any since 1994.
Now a days a whole village disappears on the electoral register and you call that an Independent system?There was a village around Brikama Ba where even the Alkalo was not on the register. I heard this on the radio Gambia on voting day i beleieve in 1997 by Mansour Njie and i think Lalo Samateh on their commentary and then talkimg to "IEC" if those people should vote? May be some body may have recorded the proceedings.
Which is worst. Having an opportunity to challenge names on the register and having no right to do so. I see that the magic water is really working here.
In fact in the last elections, there was an unprecedented increase in the number of registered voters and "IEC" could not tell how many voters cards they actually issued. Check gambian newspapers around election time. How can they know if people not on the register can vote but who by all acounts seem to have a voters card "issued" by themselves but for some reason cannot be traced on the register.
It raises the question of how independent they are and who actually issues these cards. It should not be a suprise then if the court case between Kawsu Ceesay and then Chairman Njie, as to who authorised who in the payment of electoral materials is still ongoing. If they cannot know who is issuing their voters cards or do not seem to have them on their register, then its just fair for checks to be signed and no one knows who authorised who.
EVERYBODY'S JOB IS NOBODY'S JOB.
Lets not be emotional. History will always record the truth. As long as i have the time, i will report the truth here as far as history is concerned.
Baldeh
You have also talked about TUSEH-MANO AND TULO during Jawara's days. Yes it existed as part of international aid and i see nothing wrong in that. Even in Europe, or more specifically in the West, countries come to each other's help in putting out fires forexample. Everyone needs help. Today our debt is the highest per capita in West Africa.
You see Baldeh, you have to be old enough or well versed in our history to know how far we came from in 1965. If ever you go to Gambia, visit the Archives and learn first hand. Comapring Gambia to the United States will only raise your blood pressure and perhaps get you a heart attack.
Starting a nation with no educated population and no infrastructure and only peanuts as the magical formula to leap into prosperity sounds more like a sucide adventure. That was the feeling and the reality in 1965.
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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