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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jul 2007 : 02:18:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Karamba
That is no reason to conclude African Unity is impossible. People of SHARED VALUES will find no trouble building economic and political blocs. To bite what you can chew is a sure of going about it. The picture of a United Africa is big enough. Each generation has only so much to do and let succeeding generations perfect subsequently. Unless something starts, we never know the gaps and how to fill them up. Development is a dialectical and realistic process.
Karamba
I think you are being to phylosophical here. I am happy that you noted people with shared values. I am not sure if we have shared values as far as OAU is concerned. If cassamance is asking for independence, Eritrea is gone whilst the bangilamulankes are also pursuing a region of their own in the Congo, and enless civil wars, AU is certainly a far cry for refugees from Dafur, Congo, Rwanda who only hope to see peace.
The AU was mute with the rwandan genocide and currently, Dafur is in flames right before our eyes. The problem is AU leaders all have lots of skeleton. many came to power through force and therfore you cant expect them to respect peace. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2007 : 12:01:10
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Kondorong sorry to say that you are not productive on this topic but rather very extreme and PESSIMIST! 
c.u later! |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2007 : 00:18:23
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kobo
I think kondo has many valid points. Only he is short of ideas to overcome the problems. There are two school of thoughts for African Union.
1. Lack of willing. Kondorong types: Those who are pessimist, skeptics with not much motivation. They have valid points. But they believe it is difficult to integrate. So if it is difficult let us kill the idea. That kill the energy.
2. Those a lots of willing. Those are very optimists with a lots of motivation. But they want African Union so much, they can't see the realities and try to be united which is destined to failure because of wanting it too much.
So both schools of thoughts working against each other and process is locked. That is why there needs to be third way which is regional, smaller union. Those who are WILLING can unite on REALISTIC grounds. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 13 Jul 2007 00:21:37 |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2007 : 01:19:48
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Turk,
That is where the concept of SHARED VALUES serves. Those who share common spirit, commitment, and willingness have it their way. There is nothing wrong with starting it at all. Succeeding generations will identify gaps and will improve according to means and requirements. Kondorong, the beauty of diversity is that where some wise men fail, fools still want to try. Every little effort has potential to generate results. If this generation fails to start and advance the movement towards African Unity, before end of time something will start somewhere by somebody on the accords of feasibility. Yes, we have a long way to go, but we have to go. It is no dream or utopian. It is fact of life in motion. |
Karamba |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2007 : 18:53:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Karamba
Turk,
That is where the concept of SHARED VALUES serves. Those who share common spirit, commitment, and willingness have it their way. There is nothing wrong with starting it at all. Succeeding generations will identify gaps and will improve according to means and requirements. Kondorong, the beauty of diversity is that where some wise men fail, fools still want to try. Every little effort has potential to generate results. If this generation fails to start and advance the movement towards African Unity, before end of time something will start somewhere by somebody on the accords of feasibility. Yes, we have a long way to go, but we have to go. It is no dream or utopian. It is fact of life in motion.
Wouldn't it be fair to say that the SHARE VALUES in Africa is that AU is not possible. I hate to hear we must start somewhere. Are you saying that we have not started yet since 1957.
The word impossible is a measure of one's willingness to do something and the fact that we are still talking of having to start somewhere after 51 years, clearly shows our unwillingness to move forward.
Its a lofty dream which i would subscribe to if there is any iota of seriousness but a dream that we must let pass.
I am not a pessimist, i am just a messenger of what obatains on the ground. If people do not like that, then they must change the situation on the ground.
Until we begin to eradicate the presidents for life, a dream so dear to every son and daughter born on the continent, African union will always remain the shadowy dream of a visionary. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2007 : 20:51:41
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Kondorong,
Whatever was done in 1957 is part of the process. That is part of the dialectics of history. The concept of Historical and Dialectical Materialsm is relevant here. Nothing is a complete start. This idea was already conceived. Whatever is done today is an extension of what other greater hands already laid on. We are not fair to history by surrendering rather than rendering a task. This is not a war of ideas. Every generation has a responsibility. The failure on one generation in carrying out a task does not spell a disability on other generations, even at family level. We do it or not, the idea of African Union is sound and strategically feasible. In our graves in the anals of history, some more competent women and men will take this task where it is most successful. This is not opinion but the product of very competent thoughts. All those good women and men could not be damned for gain sake. |
Karamba |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2007 : 23:11:23
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The thing is, we are not committed to the cause so why waste time. It will never happen until hell freezes.
Until we do not have presidents who say that they have applied super glue to the seat of the presidency, until our (african) DNAs are adjusted to take from it that which makes every son and daughter president for life, until tribal wars and more importantly the big elephant called patronage is wiped out, lets please stop dreaming with our eyes open.
Like the wolofs say: DAW BEH MUCHA, CHI NGORREH LA BOKA( Running away and saving one's life is part of manliness. Understanding the gravity of situations and giving up is sometimes a better option than face it head on, only to become a paste on the hard floor.
Perhaps the second coming of Jesus might unite the continent. Who knows? |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2007 : 12:52:15
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Kondorong,
Your ground of argument is firm. These breed of political creatures who take public office to be natural possession have to be dealt with. Each African president is so selfish, you run out of words. With all their greed and senseless ambition to rule for life, conditions will not continue playing in their favour. In the unfolding of events, a generation will arise when greedy and senseless politicians will only have it a short while. May be not in our immediate times, but this is a possibility some day in the infinite spell of time. |
Karamba |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2007 : 19:19:05
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
kobo
I think kondo has many valid points. Only he is short of ideas to overcome the problems. There are two school of thoughts for African Union.
1. Lack of willing. Kondorong types: Those who are pessimist, skeptics with not much motivation. They have valid points. But they believe it is difficult to integrate. So if it is difficult let us kill the idea. That kill the energy.
2. Those a lots of willing. Those are very optimists with a lots of motivation. But they want African Union so much, they can't see the realities and try to be united which is destined to failure because of wanting it too much.
So both schools of thoughts working against each other and process is locked. That is why there needs to be third way which is regional, smaller union. Those who are WILLING can unite on REALISTIC grounds.
turk your are right, another way of looking at it atleast from the recent Ghana meeting is that there are the ''gradualists'' and the immediatialist'' (if i can use that word). some want it now others want it but one step at a time, atleast growing from something small.
but this is not the point in my view, its the lack of will to tackle basic problems, real daily issues over silly things. i'll give you an example, according to the BBC, the ghanian organisers had to change the seating order and put Egypt between Eritea and Ethiopia just to avoid bringing their border conflict over a few inches of land into the conference hall!!!
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2007 : 22:14:30
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Correction Kondorong the AU wasn't in existence during the Rwanda Genocide. It was the Americans and UN who were silent during 1994 genocide not the OAU. President Clinton himself apologised later for not recognising Rwanda as genocide because of the incident coinciding with him being re-elected.
Njucks their are a sizeable population of mixed Ethiopian and Eriterian people who have family on both sides of the conflict at one time these two countries were one. They are symbolic of a pattern right across Africa were artificial borders formed at the Berlin Conference keep on hindering Africa's progress.
The AU needs to rise above these trivialities which have logistically been put in place to act as distractions hampering the real issue of unification.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2007 : 22:34:42
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Artifical borders have so much to answer for across time and place.
Think about Ireland, Romanian. Russia, etc
Lets try to find peaceful solutions that we all can trust. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2007 : 22:52:27
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gambiabev has very valid point about artificial borders but europe does not have artificial borders, anyway. Most problems in the world today for example arabs being so divided or africa is being divided or Kashmir, palestine issues are due to the greedy UK's (also France) divide and rule policy. So african's must address these issue first. For example, is conflict of Gambia and Senegal being divided based on blood ****** France/UK imperialist policies that is external or internal such as being different language, history, culture etc....?
African's must have these mentality. "our borders are artificial. Imperialist countries want us to be divided that is why they divide us politically. As long as we stay divided, they win". India as a society, as divided or even more divided than africa. But their fortune was they had one united government. Africa can achieve their own economic miracles as india if they have the united government as india." |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 15 Jul 2007 23:01:33 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2007 : 23:04:33
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| Turk, so is the logical step forward for senegal and gambia to be one nation? No borders and strength in a larger unit.What do Gambians think? |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2007 : 03:32:49
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gambiabev
Not necessarily one nation tomorrow. That would be one step. They can start on the areas beneficial both nations. Not only Senegal and Gambia. Guinnea, Mali, Mauritinia should be included to such effort.
There are areas nations would like to keep their soverignity, but there are areas they can integrate. Immigration, movement of goods and services, capitals and labours, education, foreign policy, security, custom, transportation, energy sector, there are several areas they can negotiate.
I realize that the fear of gambians when integrating with senegal they lose their identity. There are always disadvantages, but there are also advantages if the integrate. Both nations must negotiate and come together.
In the world not only nations come together to be more competitive, also companies are merging. Last 10 years were merge of nations and corporations. Gambia and its neighbours should also follow the path.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2007 : 18:10:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Correction Kondorong the AU wasn't in existence during the Rwanda Genocide.
Sister Omega
Sister that is no mistake.
AU and OAU are all the same, the same address, the same memebers and the same faces. OAU and AU are big dogs that dont bite. You see changing a name will not change anything. A change of hearts and commitments is what will creat an Intercontinental Government. Like the Fulani say:
BURU FOFF KO FORINGE( All breads are made of flour)
So no corrections needed. |
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