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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Feb 2007 : 21:32:13
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quote:
Originally posted by SANTANFARA
nyari ,i thank you for bringing to the bantaba the udp's manifesto. i never read it ,because i though they did not put any together. it is good for us to clarify the different political parties stand point and how they all square up . this manifesto seems good enough .
Santafara, you are welcome. This just shows that the absurd claim held by Ayatollah Sallah's disciples that UDP is all about a Ousainu Darboe presidential dream [as they always put it], is a palpable lie.
Thanks |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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ebou4th
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2007 : 22:01:41
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Nyarikangbanna, we have closed that chapter: The new chapter is coming up with ideas rather than throwing jabs. I am eagerly awaiting for your thoughts on how to solve this impasse. Much respect form your brother.
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“Revolutions are brought about by men, by men who think as men of action and act as men of thought.”
Kwame Nkrumah
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ebou4th
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2007 : 22:01:41
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Nyarikangbanna, we have closed that chapter: The new chapter is coming up with ideas rather than throwing jabs. I am eagerly awaiting for your thoughts on how to solve this impasse. Much respect form your brother.
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“Revolutions are brought about by men, by men who think as men of action and act as men of thought.”
Kwame Nkrumah
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ebou4th
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2007 : 22:15:27
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| Thank you BambaLaye, I think that will be a good starting point. What do you think about sharing email and phone contacts for a start: My email address is ebrima114@yahoo.com |
“Revolutions are brought about by men, by men who think as men of action and act as men of thought.”
Kwame Nkrumah
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ebou4th
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2007 : 22:15:27
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| Thank you BambaLaye, I think that will be a good starting point. What do you think about sharing email and phone contacts for a start: My email address is ebrima114@yahoo.com |
“Revolutions are brought about by men, by men who think as men of action and act as men of thought.”
Kwame Nkrumah
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2007 : 22:27:25
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quote:
Originally posted by ebou4th
Nyarikangbanna, we have closed that chapter: The new chapter is coming up with ideas rather than throwing jabs. I am eagerly awaiting for your thoughts on how to solve this impasse. Much respect form your brother.
Ebou, your point is well noted. I understand you mean business and am supportive of your initiative. I hope everyone in the forum will follow your advice. Much respect from me too.
Cheers
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 27 Feb 2007 22:28:56 |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2007 : 22:27:25
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quote:
Originally posted by ebou4th
Nyarikangbanna, we have closed that chapter: The new chapter is coming up with ideas rather than throwing jabs. I am eagerly awaiting for your thoughts on how to solve this impasse. Much respect form your brother.
Ebou, your point is well noted. I understand you mean business and am supportive of your initiative. I hope everyone in the forum will follow your advice. Much respect from me too.
Cheers
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 27 Feb 2007 22:28:56 |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2007 : 22:44:23
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Bronx you are displaying traits of insecurity here. That we "think" that we have the "edge in reasoning" is a supposition that only betrayed your insecurity as opposed to what we are thinking. If trying to be consistent with the truth means we are trying to have an edge in reasoning then so be it. Do i hate you? Like i said; its all in your head brother. I do not hate Mathew either but i hate the outspoken bigotry and tribalism that he spew in many a foraa. Mathew is a danger to himself and to every effort of reconciliaton and unification among gambians. You do not possess Mathew's perversed bigotry and expect to be a good mediator. He is better off shutting his stinking mouth than try to offer solutions to any attempt of opposition unity.quote:
Originally posted by Bronx
Shaka and Baldeh,
You guys need to get off that pedestal you perk yourselves onto. You have not done anything for the Gambia that the people you described as loud mouths haven't. You can huff and puff all you want. Call people's comprehension skills into question to your hearts content. It doesn't change the fact that we as a people cannot uniformly agree on all issues pertaining to that sliver of land we call home. We have to disagree without been disagreeable.
You may dislike the Mathew Jallows and yours truly, but don't for a second think that you have an edge in reasoning. Stop this my way or the highway mentality and a common consensus will emerge. Labeling your adversaries in a debate as pessimist or loudmouths will not win you any brownie points nor will it move the debate into positive territory.
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2007 : 22:44:23
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Bronx you are displaying traits of insecurity here. That we "think" that we have the "edge in reasoning" is a supposition that only betrayed your insecurity as opposed to what we are thinking. If trying to be consistent with the truth means we are trying to have an edge in reasoning then so be it. Do i hate you? Like i said; its all in your head brother. I do not hate Mathew either but i hate the outspoken bigotry and tribalism that he spew in many a foraa. Mathew is a danger to himself and to every effort of reconciliaton and unification among gambians. You do not possess Mathew's perversed bigotry and expect to be a good mediator. He is better off shutting his stinking mouth than try to offer solutions to any attempt of opposition unity.quote:
Originally posted by Bronx
Shaka and Baldeh,
You guys need to get off that pedestal you perk yourselves onto. You have not done anything for the Gambia that the people you described as loud mouths haven't. You can huff and puff all you want. Call people's comprehension skills into question to your hearts content. It doesn't change the fact that we as a people cannot uniformly agree on all issues pertaining to that sliver of land we call home. We have to disagree without been disagreeable.
You may dislike the Mathew Jallows and yours truly, but don't for a second think that you have an edge in reasoning. Stop this my way or the highway mentality and a common consensus will emerge. Labeling your adversaries in a debate as pessimist or loudmouths will not win you any brownie points nor will it move the debate into positive territory.
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BambaLaye
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2007 : 22:45:53
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quote:
Originally posted by ebou4th
Thank you BambaLaye, I think that will be a good starting point. What do you think about sharing email and phone contacts for a start: My email address is ebrima114@yahoo.com
Ebou:
While I intend to keep on sharing my thoughts, ideas, observations and criticisms where and when necessary, I am afraid I will have to respectfully decline your offer to join any group for such an initiative. I spent a good chunk of the past three years involved with various initiatives spearheaded by STGDP. These were very demanding tasks that you can only imagine if you're not involved.
I ardently believe a fresh set of players will help agitate credibility and confidence in the process. To that end, I yield for others to step in.
Thank you for the offer though; you can count on my support in a different format. |
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BambaLaye
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2007 : 22:45:53
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quote:
Originally posted by ebou4th
Thank you BambaLaye, I think that will be a good starting point. What do you think about sharing email and phone contacts for a start: My email address is ebrima114@yahoo.com
Ebou:
While I intend to keep on sharing my thoughts, ideas, observations and criticisms where and when necessary, I am afraid I will have to respectfully decline your offer to join any group for such an initiative. I spent a good chunk of the past three years involved with various initiatives spearheaded by STGDP. These were very demanding tasks that you can only imagine if you're not involved.
I ardently believe a fresh set of players will help agitate credibility and confidence in the process. To that end, I yield for others to step in.
Thank you for the offer though; you can count on my support in a different format. |
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sidibeh
Sweden
10 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 12:55:39
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Allow me to say a word or two about some points raised in the conversation earlier by brothers Shaka and Baldeh earlier. It is very good that people (not just intellectuals, whoever they may be) are vigilant when it comes to reading in between the lines of documents as weighty as the NADD MoU. But NADD being a first in our history, I think it was very natural that most of us focused on its agenda, i.e what it declared it wanted to do, rather than looking for theoretical loopholes in its organizational setup. Doing that from the beginning would be tantamount to spoiling the party. Nothwithstanding that, many Gambians expressed concern when it became apparent that it was going to select a leader from amongst its Executive Committee. Myself, even though I would have personally preferred Sidia Jatta or Halifa Sallah to have been selected flag bearer, I recognised and declared publicly, a number of times, that "unless Ousainou Darboe was selected as flag bearer, a stable coalition would not be possible". This was all well before anyone was nominated, and so even before Mr. Darboe withdrew. A number of people at Gambia-L expressed similar views. As internet activists, could we have done anything that might have affected the course of events inside the NADD Executice? Perhaps. But frankly even now I am not sure what that could have been.
Added to that, immediately after Mr. Darboe's withdrawal, suspicion about major flaws in the MoU was also written, somewhat cryptically, on Gambia-L. But these were at best individual concerns. Gambians, like other people are just as resourceful individually. But I think that unless these individual resources are harnessed organisationally, nation-building may prove elusive. I have difficulty in seeing how we can move on if we are not able to organise ourselves democratically. That is my first observation.
My second concern is the question of criticism. That the emperor's method of curing HIV/AIDS is scientifically bogus, is as clear as noon day to all of us. But should we not say so and criticise it mercilessly simply because we cannot offer alternative cures? Should we not criticise the health minister for his unprofessionalism simply because we are not doctors ourselves? Or simply because we are not carpenters, we should not castigate the shoddy job done by the paid professional even if the roof leaks like a net.
All of this seems to me to be instances of censuring one's critical sense. We must be able to say that something is bad even if we ourselves cannot offer ways of bettering it. To be able to fix something up one must first recognise that it does not work? Whether you can do it yourself, or you have to pay someone's services is a completely different matter. I think criticsim is justified even if one cannot offer alternatives. All constructive criticsm ia good; offering alternatives is even better.
Finally, I too agree and share the views of many that we must now look ahead towards reconciliation. Given that the personal relations between some leaders in NADD have worsened since the breakdown, I think efforts at reconciliation has to begin there. But if we are to be of use to that process, then we need to acknowledge the past and share some common ground from it. The conversation here at the banataba is a good start.
Cheers,
sidibeh |
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sidibeh
Sweden
10 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 12:55:39
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Allow me to say a word or two about some points raised in the conversation earlier by brothers Shaka and Baldeh earlier. It is very good that people (not just intellectuals, whoever they may be) are vigilant when it comes to reading in between the lines of documents as weighty as the NADD MoU. But NADD being a first in our history, I think it was very natural that most of us focused on its agenda, i.e what it declared it wanted to do, rather than looking for theoretical loopholes in its organizational setup. Doing that from the beginning would be tantamount to spoiling the party. Nothwithstanding that, many Gambians expressed concern when it became apparent that it was going to select a leader from amongst its Executive Committee. Myself, even though I would have personally preferred Sidia Jatta or Halifa Sallah to have been selected flag bearer, I recognised and declared publicly, a number of times, that "unless Ousainou Darboe was selected as flag bearer, a stable coalition would not be possible". This was all well before anyone was nominated, and so even before Mr. Darboe withdrew. A number of people at Gambia-L expressed similar views. As internet activists, could we have done anything that might have affected the course of events inside the NADD Executice? Perhaps. But frankly even now I am not sure what that could have been.
Added to that, immediately after Mr. Darboe's withdrawal, suspicion about major flaws in the MoU was also written, somewhat cryptically, on Gambia-L. But these were at best individual concerns. Gambians, like other people are just as resourceful individually. But I think that unless these individual resources are harnessed organisationally, nation-building may prove elusive. I have difficulty in seeing how we can move on if we are not able to organise ourselves democratically. That is my first observation.
My second concern is the question of criticism. That the emperor's method of curing HIV/AIDS is scientifically bogus, is as clear as noon day to all of us. But should we not say so and criticise it mercilessly simply because we cannot offer alternative cures? Should we not criticise the health minister for his unprofessionalism simply because we are not doctors ourselves? Or simply because we are not carpenters, we should not castigate the shoddy job done by the paid professional even if the roof leaks like a net.
All of this seems to me to be instances of censuring one's critical sense. We must be able to say that something is bad even if we ourselves cannot offer ways of bettering it. To be able to fix something up one must first recognise that it does not work? Whether you can do it yourself, or you have to pay someone's services is a completely different matter. I think criticsim is justified even if one cannot offer alternatives. All constructive criticsm ia good; offering alternatives is even better.
Finally, I too agree and share the views of many that we must now look ahead towards reconciliation. Given that the personal relations between some leaders in NADD have worsened since the breakdown, I think efforts at reconciliation has to begin there. But if we are to be of use to that process, then we need to acknowledge the past and share some common ground from it. The conversation here at the banataba is a good start.
Cheers,
sidibeh |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 17:58:21
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Mr. Sidibe, I do agree with some of your points. However, there is a Chinese proverb that says "Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those doing it" Objective criticism is always good given for the shake of objectivity. However, when a solution is crucially needed during an impasse, it is not helpful to criticize without offering an alternative. The union was fragile and it needed an immediate solution rather than criticism and that has proved to be a hard fact.
What I think was not objective was the blunt declaration that without Darboe being selected, the union was not going to last. This, I think was flat right not helpful to the idea of a coalition. Going into an alliance with such a theory without clearly addressing the point in the get go was done in bad faith, and it defeated the fundamental reason for coming together and signing the MOU.
Anyway, as you said we can rangle over and over again and that will not take us anywhere. Now what are we going to do about the next opportunity for an alliance? Are you willing to join or even lead an effort to coordinate such a task? I am ready to work with anyone in such endeavor. Let us get the ball rolling....
God bless
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Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 17:58:21
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Mr. Sidibe, I do agree with some of your points. However, there is a Chinese proverb that says "Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those doing it" Objective criticism is always good given for the shake of objectivity. However, when a solution is crucially needed during an impasse, it is not helpful to criticize without offering an alternative. The union was fragile and it needed an immediate solution rather than criticism and that has proved to be a hard fact.
What I think was not objective was the blunt declaration that without Darboe being selected, the union was not going to last. This, I think was flat right not helpful to the idea of a coalition. Going into an alliance with such a theory without clearly addressing the point in the get go was done in bad faith, and it defeated the fundamental reason for coming together and signing the MOU.
Anyway, as you said we can rangle over and over again and that will not take us anywhere. Now what are we going to do about the next opportunity for an alliance? Are you willing to join or even lead an effort to coordinate such a task? I am ready to work with anyone in such endeavor. Let us get the ball rolling....
God bless
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Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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