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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 11:29:00
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Twinkly, i will think about your posting...
Maybe you are right to a certain extent to put me in my place. But, but.. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 11:51:37
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quote:
Originally posted by twinkly
You girls are putting rumours and bad thoughts on this bantaba, it's simply not fair.
Obviously none of you seem to have a deep enough insight to judge fairly, but you have to judge anyway.
To be honest, I don't have too much experience in this subject myself, but I take the Gambians words and try to make sense of it.
Why have such an interest in the Gambia and at the same time disrespect everything that is not done our way.
I suppose it is the skincolour, cause hardly any Gambian is being valued by us for his lovely culture.sad but true
Using these words to other posters who express THEIR opinions that vary from yours I would suggest is "simply not fair" none of the other posters have mentioned anything about skin colour except you.
OK I am a bloke and perhaps I shouldn't have joined in.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 12:12:56
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Toubab1020, i am sure Twinkly's posting was sincere and well meant. It made me think 'do i have a deep enough insight to judge?'. But i have talked to my mother-in-law a lot and we understand each other very well. I know she has had a hard life and so that makes me think 'if she was born at my side of the world, would she ...'.
As for leaving your young children behind in another village (that is not close, and you cannot just jump in your car to go and hug them), Twinkly seems to think this is no big deal. For me, when i try to imagine it, it breaks my heart.
Join in any time you like, bloke or not.
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When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 12:17:28
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| I agree totally with you Anna, sorry Twinky, I think you are wrong . |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 12:54:35
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"Rumours and bad thoughts", "judgements" - I think these are harsh comments. Skin colour comments are also unfair. In cyberspace noone knows the colour of another person and skin colour does not (or at any rate, should not) lead to lack of understanding or disrespect.
I like bantaba - because I can read and learn.
Learn about other peoples points of view.
Doesn't mean I have to always agree and I often don't agree with traditional patriarchal points of view whether they come from West, East, my own family or africa!!
I can respect without agreeing.
Just like everyone else can .... |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 12:59:30
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Well Said Lily!
SISTER OMEGA,Where are you!!! |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 17 Feb 2007 13:01:45 |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 15:12:03
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when i travel to the rural villages i find the co-wives are generally respectful because they know that it could happen to them. When i first heard about it i asked questions and got the following answers,
one the wife can leave but they children stay in the village, this was to protect their inheritance, as the first born boy is important to let him leave would cause disruption to him because he would not have everyday contact with his fathers family. 
second choice stay inthe village with the children on her own as a widow, but not standing, or recognition, i have seen widows who are begging at the roadside
third choice stay with her husbands family and become a co-wife, and be part of the extended family
as far as i could see there was choice but most of the women chose to stay for the sake of their children especially if the child is the first born boy, a lot of emphasis was put on this.
it might not be to my liking, but that is tradition |
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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 18:49:24
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Kondorong, Santafana and Momodou have explained the matter on page one. Quite simple to understand I thought.
Now what I can't understand is the fact that some members just have to point out bad stuff all the time.We know how things should work, but like everywhere there are families who don't follow the rules.This even happens in our precious West, imagine that!!
What was the last posting from Kondorong?....Something he felt quite offended. Please think about it.
How would we feel if foreigners constantly point out the bad things in our society and keep going ooon and ooon about it?No matter how we explain, they still won't get it..............
As for mentioning skincolour, Toubab please explain to me why so many women fall for Gambians but hardly any of them can accept the mans things?And accepting gambian food and clothes is not enough, I'm talking about living the culture or at least letting your partner live his.So if it is not the outer appearance what then?
Or if not a partner then why do so many people travel there and say they love it but when it comes to something else than sand and sea(and maybe men) most don't wanna know and brush it down?
This is not to offend anybody, I'm obviously not very good with words, just trying to make people think outside the box |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 19:46:43
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Jambo. how you list the choice is how I have found it in the villages too. I know of a lady, who when she divorced her husband went back to Sengal and was forced to leave her children behind. Heartbreaking. In kolior the deceased akalas wife is now married to his brother. As a Westerner I find that odd!
The men have the power, because generally speaking they own the land, property etc....
It used to be the same in UK, but things have changed. I hope this changes in the Gambia too. Women have a right to the same freedoms as men and the same choices.
Twinkly, this is nothing to do with the colour of a persons skin, the country they live in , or the religion they have. It is to do with ECONOMIC POWER.
Just because we like many things about the Gambia, it doesnt mean we haev to agree with everything. I love UK too, but know there are many things wrong here too.
I am very happy for any Gambian to follow their traditions as long as it doesnt surpress another person. Just because something is traditional it doesnt necessarily mean it is good!
Action Aid in GAmbia has done alot of work in villages setting up womens groups and encouraging them to debate things and empower them. Skill centres are good for women. They can learn a skill and then earn their own income. They dont have to depend on men for money for food. Perhaps the man might even depend on them if they get successful. Then the power in decisions will change!  |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 20:05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by twinkly
As for mentioning skincolour, Toubab please explain to me why so many women fall for Gambians but hardly any of them can accept the mans things?And accepting gambian food and clothes is not enough, I'm talking about living the culture or at least letting your partner live his.So if it is not the outer appearance what then?
Or if not a partner then why do so many people travel there and say they love it but when it comes to something else than sand and sea(and maybe men) most don't wanna know and brush it down?
This is not to offend anybody, I'm obviously not very good with words, just trying to make people think outside the box
If a Toubab had mentioned skin colour Oh dear he or she is a racist but to mention culture is perfectly OK, of course there are differences between races and the way they live their lives ,in England the Toubabs have a saying, When in Rome do as the Romans do,this means when you go another place you do as the people in that place do,but for instance if people at the place you are visiting cook and eat dogs as a normal thing then perhaps that is stretching the saying too far. As for men,being one you wouldnt expect me to comment I am sure! I think you are fine with words but as I said other people have opinions that are not the same as yours and you should respect that.We are not Politicians or Political activists here (some may be though,thinking about it !)A more considered choice of words would have perhaps been better.I had the feeling that you were angry when you made that posting.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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inez
279 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 20:06:52
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quote:
Originally posted by twinkly
Kondorong, Santafana and Momodou have explained the matter on page one. Quite simple to understand I thought.
Now what I can't understand is the fact that some members just have to point out bad stuff all the time.No matter how we explain, they still won't get it..............
As for mentioning skincolour, Toubab please explain to me why so many women fall for Gambians but hardly any of them can accept the mans things?And accepting gambian food and clothes is not enough, I'm talking about living the culture or at least letting your partner live his.So if it is not the outer appearance what then?
Or if not a partner then why do so many people travel there and say they love it but when it comes to something else than sand and sea(and maybe men) most don't wanna know and brush it down?
This is not to offend anybody, I'm obviously not very good with words, just trying to make people think outside the box
I donīt really know where to start...This is not about "pointing out the bad stuff", this is about learning about some traditions so it wonīt only be sand and sea and maybe men...to use your words.
This is something I have experienced and heard from people/families involved in this...donīt know whos side I need to hear before Iīm allowed to talk about it? This did not happen 35 years ago, this all started autumn 2005 and I was involved in this situation for 10 weeks and itīs still going on...in coastal area. That girl is now 26 and her daughter will soon be 4, she is still staying with the husbands family but really wants to get a way since the pressure is there all the time. Donīt really understand why this is such a taboo, if I can talk about it with the family involved and they donīt all agree on this tradition and they all talk about it, why to get so upset about it here. Of course I have to learn about traditions and culture of the family I will be involved in and that is of course easier if I talk and ask about it to really understand. My question was how common it was and maybe that showes that I am aware of the fact that there are different people and different traditions in Gambian families just like everywhere else.
I got some answers here and if I got it right, itīs not happening or it should not happen. Does this make me a lier? Maybe it was wrong of me to start jokin about the issue in my last posting but that is the way I am and this is the way I deal with things, I do joke about the most serious things. And I do joke even when Iīm really sad and then I do it so I wonīt cry.
I wonder how you Twinkly would have reacted if you met this girl daily crying and devostated. If you heard that her own mother told her she couldnīt come back home and stay. Maybe you should have told her to accept it because it is a tradition. I understand and respect traditions but I donīt have to like them all if people get harmed by it. We had a tradition before that allowed witches to be burned alive and it was enough to be pointed by one person, maybe a child. I wonder how many people got rid of their enemies? I am not comparing this to any tradition in the Gambia, just an exemple of a tradition I wouldnīt have liked since maybe someone here would have got me burned...
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 21:17:38
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Opps.............I am a bloke I am out of here bye..................... |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 23:22:34
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| Don't leave toubab, gender isn't the issue. Thoughts are and you speak clear and loud |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 23:38:19
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Thanks for that, but I think that I should, there is a book called Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus,the title explains the book ,men are different from women and do'nt think the same, therefor I feel that I am unable to contrubute effectivly further to this topic, sorry.
But that dosn't mean that I shall not follow it with interest!. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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inez
279 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2007 : 00:19:01
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| Please continue, you are right, men are from Mars but women can mostly deal with that. If I said something in my last posting that made you feel that way, I need to explain. When I was writing my posting the one before me was Twinkly, it took me time to get my posting ready since I had to take a break and calm down few times and when I posted it I didnīt see that there were some postings between..I had to go and now first I saw it...I have to admit that I got really upset about Twinklys posting and that is not the first time...we almost never have a same point of wiew...donīt know if one of us is from some really strange planet called "please God turn back the time and take away womens brains". So the Mars Venus thing doesnt only have to be between men and women...well I love and respect men but it doesnīt mean i have to make myself to be less worth than men to be accepted. |
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