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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 16:10:58
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Are Marcus Garvey thoughts, meditations and philosophy as relevant today in 21st Century for African people as they were at the beginning 20th Century?
Peace
Sister Omega
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Peace
Sister Omega |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 16:53:53
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i don;t think so because since his demise there have been other black icons in some shape or form.
at the time he was unique because he came to the attention of the us governement and was considered a threat. also the black star liner has been replaced by other means of africans to help the african mainland.
his ideas have been adopted and adapted by others, right now if people are interested in helping the african continet they can in many ways, but back then he was one of the few.
I think also the media has helped, marcus garvey was the NEWS, but now look at the internet there are so many "marcus garveys" doing their own projects. 
but he did a lot
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 18:07:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Are Marcus Garvey thoughts, meditations and philosophy as relevant today in 21st Century for African people as they were at the beginning 20th Century?
Peace
Sister Omega
I THINK HE IS STILL RELEVANT TO US ALL.THE ONLY PROBLEM I WILL HAVE IS THE MEDITATION ISSUE. EVERY INDIVIDUAL SHOULD DO SOME FORM OF MEDITATION BUT THERE SHOULD BE A CLEAR OBJECTIVE ON WHAT YOU ARE MEDITATING ABOUT. HE WAS A GALANT BLACK MAN.BUT SADDLY HE DIED IN OBSECURITY IN LONDON. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 20:13:24
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quote:
Originally posted by jambo
i don;t think so because since his demise there have been other black icons in some shape or form.
at the time he was unique because he came to the attention of the us governement and was considered a threat. also the black star liner has been replaced by other means of africans to help the african mainland.
his ideas have been adopted and adapted by others, right now if people are interested in helping the african continet they can in many ways, but back then he was one of the few.
I think also the media has helped, marcus garvey was the NEWS, but now look at the internet there are so many "marcus garveys" doing their own projects.
but he did a lot
Totally aggree with your thought Jambo! Times, circumstances, political ideologies, dynamic society, technological advancement, wider markets and economies today are different from Garvey's days!
Those who stand for civil liberties and freedom are many of "Marcus Garvey!" |
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Momodou
Denmark
11644 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 22:03:13
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Sister Omega, Most of our heroes today has in one way or the other been influenced by the teachings of Marcus Garvey. I believe his thoughts are still relevant for the African people.
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 23:32:08
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Momodou,I totally agree with you. I think it's important that Marcus Garvey's teachings are taught our youth so that they can aspire and focus on doing their best for themselves, family, community,(nation) and continent.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 23:42:37
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It requires new editions and deletes anything that segregates between RACES and replaced them with MANKIND and generalise certain words!
The ideology, moral norms, thoughts and teachings should be tapered to represent DIVERSITIES, INSPIRE and GUIDE on general civil liberties, freedom, activism, empowerment etc! |
Edited by - kobo on 22 Nov 2006 00:04:23 |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 00:24:17
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I think it's important from an authentic view point that people have access to the source and hear Marcus's words and study era which he wrote and to understand the context in which it was written. Of course their can be new spins put onto people have been doing it since the 20's but fundamentally as many great philosophers throughout the ages their words are still read the way they were written. For example we don't read Shakespeare in modern English language unless we are asked to analysis the meaning of what he is saying. People still read Marx in the way he wrote his thoughts, or Abraham Lincoln. I don't think his words should be censored once one understands the context at the time in history he was living in then they will understand why he was writing the way he did.
It was at a time when the abolition of slavery was sixty years old, Africans lived in segregation in the United States of American, under Jimcrow laws when lynching was a sport in the Deep south.(West Indians) African Caribbean were forced to work on the Panama Canal where thousands of people perished. Mussolini had invaded Ethiopia using poisonous Gas outlawed by the league of Nations, When Africans were forced to fight for Imperialist powers but were regarded as subhuman by them all. Where no 51 of Africa's states were under colonial rule and the only state never to be colonialised in Africa was being invaded by Mussolini the facist who wanted to reinstate the Roman Emperor. Marcus Garvey during the 30's was able to mobilse African's in the West Indies and US, with some chapters in Africa i.e South through the Universial Negro Improvement Association to invest in the Black Star Line to repatriate them to Liberia another free Africa state so he thought. But his efforts were sabotaged by the Americans and British hence infiltration of the movement and mail fraud charges etc. Nevetheless Garvey had gallavanised the biggest movement of Africans ever seen. so to delete words here and there to deem it politically correct would be re-writing history and our story.
For the mere fact people may feel uncomfortable about the use of segregation, races, mankind or humankind maybe a measurement of how the world has changed. In many ways it has we have 53 sourveign states in Africa, only six islands in Caribbean are under Colonial rule, compared only Haiti being free in Garvey's time. There were no prominent Africa female contemporary figures in Garvey's. The Church was important as a meeting place and to give support for a life of serfdom for many Africans. Education was important part of enlightenment particulary self love of the Africa at a time when blatant racism ruled the day and anything black was negagate then African pride was essential. Therefore reflecting and researching on African history before racism whitewashed the African presence out of history was essential for the uplift movement of the African race and reconnection of African Diaspora people back to their roots (where they had originated from)in Africa was fundamental to rejuvenate their spirit and belief in themselves and Our Creator. (If you remember the lighter you were in white society the more priviledge you had within the color bar system operating in Jamaica and US)Black people were indoctorinated over time in the west not to associate themselves with being Africa and this was systematically done of 350 years during slavery. So in Garvey's era him being the shade of black he was challenging the system inside of America made him enemies within the African American Communities as well. So when Marcus reaffirms the necessity of uncovering our African Heroes it is important for us all to emulate the achievements of our race especially when they have been negated to be classed sub-human or failures. After all who wants to associate themselves with a race of failures and obviously as human beings we strive for success.
On the otherside of the coin we still subjected to institutional racism denied freedom of movement etc. Just imagine in Garvey's day we could travel around the world now it's virtually impossible to travel without restriction if you haven't got a EU or US passport. that's all for now
Peace
Sister Omega
Sophia Ba Copyright 2006 |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 22 Nov 2006 00:52:02 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 01:01:58
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Thanks Sister Omega. Got some answers but Marcus time like others are obsolete.
QUOTES
"I don't think his words should be censored once one understands the context at the time in history he was living in then they will understand why he was writing the way he did."
Second Paragraph characterised that time in detail. Followed by "Nevetheless Garvey had gallavanised the biggest movement of Africans ever seen. so to delete words here and there to deem it politically correct would be re-writing history and our story.
For the mere fact people may feel uncomfortable about the use of segregation, races, mankind or humankind maybe a measurement of how the world has changed."
"Our story" and the history at that time are miles apart with a lot of factors acknowleging diversities and "a measurement of how the world has changed". For e.g. these words "Our story", alieniates on this article or write up!
The writer acknowledge the discomforts, rivalry and political correctness but the spiritual or idolised power of Garvey's teachings appear to be uncompromising for radical changes or improvement of Garvey's teachings.
However its better to always preserve the originality and understand that; that ERA is outdated!
N.B: Civil rights, Civil liberties, Activism and Human Rights are for GENERAL CONCEPTS!
PEACE AND LOVE! |
Edited by - kobo on 22 Nov 2006 09:58:35 |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 11:07:19
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Kobo Marcus Garvey work provided the foundations for nation of Islam, Malcolm X or Menelik Shabbaz the Black Power Movement, his work influence fundrs of the Organization of African Unity now the AU. Alot of the goals which he identified still have not been accomplished. Therefore I disagree with you that Garvey is obsolete. When you check the underachievements of African boys in British schools this relates to the fact that they have not been given sufficient African role models to aspire too. There are important lessons for all of us to learn from history and Garvey challenged the false dichotomoniesor lies spread by racist white supremacists during that time if an African man even looked at a white woman the wrong way he would find himself burnt hanging from a tree. He's relevant today by politicising the struggle for civil rights campaigners like king, insisting on civil liberities. In 1950's and 60's many of the African Americans were aware of the teachings of Garvey some of their parents or Grandparents had been involved in the UNIA movement i.e Marcolm X's father Reverend Little who was murdered by the KKK when Malcolm was a child.
Marcus Garvey wrote at the timebetween the world wars I and II. Which for many African people World War I symbolised that the Europeans were mortal like the rest of us. As African soliders returning from the Europe were acutely aware of having fought on the battlefield. Yet still when Africans returned to their nations they had no voting rights and were negated to the bottom of the social order. This knowledge is important for Africans to remember so that such insistences aren't repeated again. Garvey in turn reminded African soliders and people of achievements Africans had made liberating Haiti in defeating Spain, France twice and then Britain.Many Africans can still identify to Marcus Garvey today as they could then. Therefore in my view and I am sure I don't stand alone when I say Garvey is still relevant today!
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 22 Nov 2006 11:17:08 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 03:00:28
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Sister I appreciate your comments, opinions and the meaningful ROLE OF GARVEY towards "THE BLACK POWER" IDEOLOGY and EMPOWERMENT OF THE MINORITIES!
I did not say that "Garvey is obsolete" as you alleged under this statement from your comments; "Therefore I disagree with you that Garvey is obsolete."
What am saying is that Garvey's ERA is obsolete and what characterised that era radically changed in society to present era!
Your references with these words extracted from your comments refer to Garvey's era as follows:
"during that time ";"In 1950's and 60's ";"Marcus Garvey wrote at the time between the world wars I and II"
To answer directly your question; "Are Marcus Garvey thoughts, meditations and philosophy as relevant today in 21st Century for African people as they were at the beginning 20th Century? " In my opinion they are as relevant today in 21st Century as they were at the beginning of 20th Century.
However, Jambo's remarks in brackets ("i don't think so because since his demise there have been other black icons in some shape or form. at the time he was unique because he came to the attention of the us governement and was considered a threat."); doesn't contradicts these reamarks from you in brackets ("Kobo Marcus Garvey work provided the foundations for nation of Islam, Malcolm X or Menelik Shabbaz the Black Power Movement, his work influence fundrs of the Organization of African Unity now the AU. Alot of the goals which he identified still have not been accomplished.")
Earlier I acknowledged that the originality and background to his ideology must be maintained and preserved.
However an improved version on doctrines of Garvey is a viable project for Civil liberty, Peace Activism. Liberation Movements, Radicalism and for Freedom fighters etc; if the audience for those doctrines and messages are not geared towards the Black race and minorities only. Am proposing that justice needs to be done on Garvey's original doctrines by editing any word or connotation on a particular race, be it white or black and generalised them to reflect all diversities and races or moreso as if addressing "ALL MANKIND!" If the doctrines are generalised like Ghandhi's doctrines which reflects a more general approach to address and inspire ALL HUMAN RACES and in a more dynamic philosophy, religious style or another special or general kind of doctrines for human development, within the original writings of Garvey relevant at that very time when they flew as revelations to its peoples!
A team of experts and intellectuals word just delete words of RACE connotaions and paste an appropriate or most suitable word for MANKIND and generalise all diversities of races. The best suggestion from me is to change the scenarios at the time of Garvey's era to depict only two scenarios "The oppressor(s)" and "The oppressed or oppressee". Excuse me if "oppressee" is not right word for those oppressed or subjected to oppression, denial of civil rights, freedom, liberty' human rights and dignity.
Thanks with all the contributions on this topic. |
Edited by - kobo on 23 Nov 2006 09:51:57 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 15:55:16
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| hial brother marcus have a nice rest some body is fighting for you and the person is your great ,great great gran daughter.good luck sister. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 01:26:40
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quote:
Originally posted by SANTANFARA
hial brother marcus have a nice rest some body is fighting for you and the person is your great ,great great gran daughter.good luck sister.
Sister Omega is wonderful and very resourceful to interact with on politics, activism etc. I am learning a lot and very amazed with her amount of information! RESPECT TO YOU Sister!
Finally, am not saying or alledging that Garvey was RACIST (May God forbid!), he was a visionary leader, inspirator and MENTOR for the oppressed and natural icon for Black power at that ERA of his lifetime and beyond. My proposals are for re-orientaion and gave Garvey's original doctrines (in structure, form and content); a wonderful UNIVERSAL TOUCH to inspire ALL HUMAN RACES!
R.I.P! |
Edited by - kobo on 24 Nov 2006 01:29:26 |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 11:54:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Are Marcus Garvey thoughts, meditations and philosophy as relevant today in 21st Century for African people as they were at the beginning 20th Century?
Peace
Sister Omega
Sister,
In my opinion he is'int. The conditions in the Gambia are quite different from what Marcus experienced. We have other problems today. The Black Americans are more free today. We have seen mrs. Rice, Collin Powell. They are all black people in America.We are not of the same generation, and I belive more in Uncle Sam of Ghana than Marcus or MalcomX. |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 17:28:21
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Alhassan can you enlighten us on who Uncle Sam is ?
peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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