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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 17:13:24
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They are thinking this will solve those problems but its only creating.
Don’t they know that we Muslims took God higher than anything’s?
Secondly if it come to the so called those extremis
they will prefers to stay away from the public which some has already
started doing it than ignoring they religions. And this will turn some
more out from the so called integration to more harder fanatics
Because they are losing the sight.
Then the out look will not be the they problems but of what is happing behind the doors.
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 18:56:17
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In most issues of dress common sense on both sides will usually resolve things.
Wearing a headdress is no problem in the Uk at all. Lots of Asian women cover their hair, Catholics do in church, nuns do and so on.
The issue is covering the face if you have a job dealing with the public or dealing with children. Personally I just dont think that is appropriate.
In leicester many more Muslim women are covering up since 9/11. Before that they were just black or asian walking down the street, now they are easily identified as Muslim. Now they are making themselves MORE visable by the way they dress. I just wonder what the pyschology behind that is? |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 19:10:42
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alhassan, you say it is too minor to fight, but look at the bigger picture, she takes the case to human rights courts, more publicity for isalm and believers. I just wonder where it will end.
Bev, you are right i think back to 9/11 and it was not so noticeable, and if it was it was the strictly religious women who had always done it, or in the case of london the women from the middle east, saudi arabia to them it was second nature but now more younger women are wearing it. it does draw attention to them. still think there is trouble ahead.
mbay you are right it is creating a problem.
Can someone enlighten me is it a requirement of islam for a women to cover her face, is it individual choice, geographical locations. I ask this because i live in south london and see many women who are muslim who do not cover their heads, both asian and african and nobody thinks any less of them. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 19:25:41
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| jambo, the Holy Coran says nothing about covering the face. Veils are a cultural tradition of certain Muslim countries. |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 20:37:18
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we have to notice that a lots of things about Islam good or bad was hiding so things has being visible because of 9/11 as well as Madrid/ London . so now some have a reason of spreading they anger out to all of us with out any exceptions. natural Muslim like us (Gambia)on the other hand man have to understand some of them as the critically conditions we living now because of those not Islams extremist but POLITICALY TERRORIST causing all echos!.
but what West have to understand is that changing ones dress will help absolutely nothing .remembers how mohamed attar and co .get to the planes, their ware not covered up to down but best westerners young dressing .so i prefer more integrations more communications and much more dialogs between christians and Islam as well as separating a religions & politics. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 21:32:44
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| Mbay, you are right, and this is what I also wish for. |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 22:13:10
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I am very sorry that, while i pointed out inaccuracies to others in my postings, i was inaccurate myself: it was not Dalton, but Santanfara who found the banning of the burka 'typical for the Dutch'. Sorry Dalton1, i should have known you weren't using the MalcolmX avatar just now. I hope Santanfare will take the trouble to explain what he meant by his statement.
After a day of work i came back to this Bantaba to see the reactions and there are a few things that i want to go into a little bit more:
I tried very hard to keep this discussion away from 'husband oppressing wife and demanding the wife to cover herself totally for whatever reason'. I did this for a reason. I have made clear before that i teach at a business college. Some of my female students choose to wear burka or niqab these days - as far as i know they don't live with a man. I could see them radicalise before my very eyes. Now is the time for them to find a placement to do their practical, and they are having a hard time. Unfortunately, they blame Dutch society for the fact that they are unable to find a workplacement. I agree with Bev that if you want to work with the public it is inappropriate to cover your face.
Sister Omega, i am disappointed to hear you say that there is not much difference between wearing a cross on a chain around your neck and walking around in a burka. It seems as if you are not taking this problem seriously, which i cannot understand or accept. This has nothing to do with xenophobia, as far as i am concerned. Go and try to find a responsible job dressed in a burka, you will find none. Go and try to find a responsible job with 'your bums hardly covered by your miniskirt' (as you put it) and you will find none either. The sad thing (and also unfair in my view) is that a woman who was denied a job/workplacement because of the burka will have more success in court because Dutch/West European society is so afraid to stand on Muslim toes....
There is a big difference between wearing headdress or the burka: like in the UK, the headdress is totally accepted in Holland, although strangely enough the local authorities have trouble accepting a trainee with headdress where they should be the example of integration.
I welcomed Cornelius' remark about the Hollywood scenario for the latest thriller: bankrobber dressed in Islamic burka. I tried to keep this out of the discussion, but it must be said: people feel threatened by it, what is under this black pillar of cloth? No face is visible (in contrast to the nuns, who played a big role in my nursery, primary and secondary school-years, and some of them had very sweet faces), it could just as well be a man under there being up to no good. And you are right, sir: the Dutch have this 1974-football trauma because of the Germans. One day we will win them!! Serenata, i could only see this 'anti-German' remark in Cornelius' posting...
Jambo and Mbay: you are both right. There should be (even) more integration and communication between Muslims and Christians and segregation between religion and politics is a given thing in Western Europe which Muslims coming to these parts should understand and accept. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 23:19:23
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Anna I've been covering my head for the past 23 years and don't find a problem with doing so because it is my personal choice. I've also lived in London for the same amount of time within Multi Cultural areas one with a high Jewish population and another area with a high muslim population. Recently I've become more aware of the presence of the veil because of the media obession on it since 9/11 and I feel that it deliberately trying to project suspicion on muslim women through social engineering by spreading fear and intolerance of their dress code. This I feel is blatant discrimination towards them and is just another form of prejudice. Many muslim women today are choosing to wear the veil as a form of rebellion because they are being told not to wear it.
AS far as the crucifix Christians have been wering them for centuries and its only recently that it has become a political issue with a British Airways worker being sacked because of it this to my mind is absurd. Tolerance is needs to be applied. I just feel politicans are manipulating the European public with their own petty prejudices through a lot of spin. Anna as for the trainees not being employed because their head is covered again is another form of prejudice. I think the Dutch law is draconian and senseless.
Peace
Sister Omega
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news/newswire.php/news/reuters/2006/11/20/business/ba-worker-loses-company-appeal-over-crucifix.html&template=/money/feeds/story_template.html |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 22 Nov 2006 23:22:47 |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 00:12:33
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Sister, of course you have covered your head for 23 years now because you chose to do so - just i have chosen not to do any such thing! Let's rejoice that this is so and that we both can live a full life in a society where we can be what we want to be.
But covering your head is not the same thing as wearing 'full veil'. I admit that i dislike teaching someone whose face i cannot see while i talk to her.....and i can understand that in the same way an employer would like to see his employee's face. In that respect i can understand B.A.'s policy. Someone in that company tried very hard to come up with 'clear' rules: everyone can wear any kind of jewellery (of a religious kind or otherwise) but it has to be worn under the uniform. It's a rule, the employee signed a contract etc. (something with a goose and a gander, i should remember the correct expression but i don't). It seems absurd indeed, to fire someone because of wearing a crucifix, but you don't want the precedents.
But you hit the nail on the head! I didn't dare to say it myself (always so careful), but the word 'rebellion' came to my mind immediately when my students (formerly in jeans and sweaters) turned up in burkas or 'full veil'.
Naturally i was taken aback when i saw you describe Dutch law as 'senseless'.
But peace to you too, anyway. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 00:22:01
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| Sister omega covering your head is your own right,but terrorist dressing up from top to toe can easyly hide a bomb around them. |
There is no god but Allah |
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Momodou
Denmark
11823 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 00:39:11
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The Burka
The Danes are against burka-prohibitions
Danes say no to a ban on wearing burka and Moslem head dress in public places according to an opinion poll from Wilke Markedsanalyse.
63 percent say no to a prohibition, while 27 percent think that burkas ought to be banned in streets and market places. But the inhabitants are broken up in comparison with age. Among Danes over 60 years there is small majority for a prohibition, while there is massive resistance among Danes below 30 years.
The polls show in addition that more than every third Dane thinks that is tokens of oppression, when Moslem women wear burka or scarf publicly. 42 percent answer no. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 00:48:33
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How can any police tell who is hidding under that KUNG FU expert dress?it could be any Tom, dick and Harry |
There is no god but Allah |
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Momodou
Denmark
11823 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 00:54:50
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It will be impossible to get a job wearing this dress. It’s a very tiny minority who wears such a dress. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 07:34:30
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| For safty reason burka dress should not be wear in any cheak point or high security places. |
There is no god but Allah |
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