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jambo
3300 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 18:21:09
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it is not the movement of the people that bothers me, it is the criminals who are charging young gambian men 6,000 dls to get to europe.
When i asked one of the why he would leave gambia to go to europe he said to get work.
secondly, this is exploitation and should be stopped, when people settle in gambia from another african country there is a common link, language, tribe tradition, something. you can get by.
An illegal african in spain, italy is not wanted and left by the roadside. they live from hand to mouth. They end up on mental homes, detention centres or just disappear. For those that make it okay, but there are many dumped in the sahara or thrown overboard. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 18:56:36
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This is why Europe should stop to close its borders. So many lives could be saved.
Do you really think bringing these criminals to jail will solve the problem? When you catch two, four more are coming. As long as no legal migration from Africa is possible there will always be criminals who exploit and kill the refugees. |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 19:07:44
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| Very good idea Serenata. |
There is no god but Allah |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 22:29:41
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Gambiabev, Why the reference to (African) HIV & TB diseases in your first posting? You could have chosen Diabetes, Sickle cell anaemia, circulatory problems etc.,
Don’t you think it heightens the stigma around HIV and saying that Africans should not be coming to this country?
You know African communities already have problems – some being socially excluded – A lot of them are asylum seekers who come to this country deeply traumatised and some don’t know how to access NHS services. Yes, some do…..
There is a conflicting policy surrounding which migrants are eligible for free treatment on the NHS, which has led to much confusion. (a posting I made last year)
Meetings were held February 2005 with regards to testing immigrants entering Britiain for HIV – to be implemented in the Nov 05 Immigration New Rulings. I am pleased you were not on the committee!
TB IN THE UK & THE ELDERLY;
During the 1920/40’s TB was rife in the UK and as we know there were numerous hospitals dedicated to treating TB patients,some ongoing for two years or more.
The medical profession will tell you that once TB is in the body, and treated lies dormant until you get older and when the immune system weakens, then TB will usually recur through your bones & joints. In the UK we have many elderly people living between seventy and ninety years of age, and it is these people who are helping to contribute to the statistics of the rise in TB figures. But that information is kept behind the scenes. In twenty years time these people will be deceased and you will see the figures fall.
In Russia there are 231,000 existing cases of TB.
There are one million Russians in prison – 100,000 have active TB.
In order of the highest – India, China, Indonesia, Nigeria, South Africa, Bangladesh, Pakistan etc….
Just an added piece…
In 1992 I was involved in taking Romania persons who had been flown into UK to designated hospitals here. Unknowingly I probably had some sputum on my clothing, but as always changed the uniform when I got home. But not before I had greeted a three-year-old grandson – who sometime later became very ill and diagnosed with TB. Only to re-cur again three years later.
So screening of Africans for HIV & TB before being allowed to settle, against that for a two week holiday will not make an iota of difference to the prevention and figures - it just takes a minute particle – and a split second!
So shall we leave that ‘human right’ intact – and forget about HIV & TB screening for Africans?
regards & peace...
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The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 22:44:47
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Sab I am so sad to hear about your grandson. The other illnesses you list are NOT infectious unless I am mistaken?
Why this is dear to my heart is because my mother has alow immune system and has to travel on a bus mainly occupied by asians.
She lives her life in fear of tb from people coughing over her.
It is NOT the uk native population ( of whatever ethnicity) that pose the threat with tb, it is asians that travel between Leicester and India and then return to uk that pose the threat.
On the subject of the national health service, it was originally concieve of as a contributory scheme. We pay national insurance to pay for it. So why should anyone who has never paid in recieve anything out of the system?
If I went to USA, Spain, Gambia etc on holiday I would be expected to PAY or have insurance to cover it.
why then, should people arrive to uk and expect medical care? |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 22:49:03
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Sab, can I ask where you work and in what capacity?
Have you ever considered returning to Gambia?
If so, please go and work at Kwinella health centre.
It is in the poorest part of Gambia and you could make so much difference to individual lives.
Then when I go to Kwinella each November I could meet you face to face. What a great day that would be! |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 22:50:34
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I am sorry sab, but the tb figure in uk wont fall because the asain population is on the increase.
In the white population it is ALMOST cured. |
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Jack
Belgium
384 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 22:57:29
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Well Bev, I'm very suprised by that statement.
I think that every human being deserves the best treatment. We in the West and the richest countries in the world have a big responsability .
My personnal opinion is that if you allow someone in your country you have the moral obligation to treat him/her like anyone in that country, even he hasn't contributed to the system.
But there is a big problem. You can't allow millions and millions of migrants in a country without undermining the system. So there must be rules to allow immigrants in a country/continent.
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 23:18:08
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| Jede what about the people you havent allowed, but turn up anyway?! |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 19:46:56
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| What about The slaves your Floks been taking to Uk for many years working them to death,dont you think its time some africans have free NHS now. |
There is no god but Allah |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 19:59:52
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Lemon Time....the NHS is highly germ infested!
regards,
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The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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MJT
Germany
45 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 22:38:00
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Thank Serenata!
That will be very good to stop to close it borders,And i hope one day they will do that. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 23:06:35
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Sorry Lemontime, I know I am old, but the slave trade was before my time!!!
I have paid my national insurance though. As I have mentioned many times the NHS is based on a contributions system. If you contrubyte by working in uk, paying tax and ni fine, come and use the health service.
But it has finite resources. Why should an African that has never worked in Uk take priority over someone who has worked in uk for 40 years? Some drugs are already rationed because of cost, if we have more people taking out of the system and less paying in then that will get worse.
If you want the system to be based on something other than contrubutions then we have to invent a new system that will generate alot more funds and facilities. Perhaps then we could treat the whole world in UK?!!
Jede how is the health service paid for in Belgium and what about France or Germany?
In Gambia I notice people talk about things as if the President is PERSONALLY paying for it. eg HE has provided desks for a school. I presume it is the governments budget from taxes that has provided it and NOT the President in person! |
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Jack
Belgium
384 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2006 : 00:01:35
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Gambiabev,
The health security system in Belgium is without any doubt the best (i.e. the cheapest) in the world. The cheapest because the system is mainly financed by general taxes. The middle range incomes here are rated at 45-50 % taxation. Not only to finance the health security system of coarse. But this give an indication how we redistribute the incomes for social issues. BANTABA MEMBERS REED THAT ONCE AGAIN please. We don't have/need a private health security system. (not yet) Neverthelesse the system is under pression by liberal and right political parties who are for a private health security system.
I think the systems in Germany and France are quite similar.
Unlimited open borders are not realistic. It undermines the system if you give the immigrants the same access to the system. Therefor I'm for a limited immigration policy. And those who enter illegaly have to go back. It's just not possible to accept everyone. Then there is the difference betweeen political an economical migrants.
By the way I give you a brand new news about that. Till last year immigrants were given an ammount of money to hire accomodation, buy food etc. This ammount of money wasn't that huge but surely for migrants this was like winning the lottery. (some got 25.000 dalasis a month). You can hardly survive with that sum, but I can imagine when someone enters Fortress Europe and is used to earn 800 dal a month, this must be a shock). However, from 2005 on the Belgium state don't give them the money in cash. They pay the rent and they give some accesses to have food, and the elementary things to live for the same amount of money.
Guess. The number of immigrants are reduced this year by more than 50 %.
Isn't is so that even the Gambia has problems wiht immigrants from Ghana, Sierra Leona, Nigeria...
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2006 : 08:23:50
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I think it is a good way to judge a country, how it treats its poorest and weak. It is a balancing act. To give enough to avoid suffering but not so much as to demotivate people from helping themselves long term.
I think most western european countries are quite good at this. In America the system is much more harsh. MONEY talks. Health insurance is very expensive and if you dont have it you are at the bottom of the queue. In New Orleans we saw on our TV screens very visually the underclass of the american system that was left behind and treated poorly. They were mainly black, but also old white americans and disabled people. Who would want to live in a country that is so injust? |
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