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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 22:42:23
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Whilst I would never want to defend colonialism or racism of any form NEITHER do I want to be personally held responsible for something white people before my time did. That is a bit like making all Germans responsible for Hitler.
I joined these pages to learn more about The Gambia and join in healthy debate about Gambian issues.
I didn't think it would be a political anti white site.
The tone of many responses is patronising and racist (against me for being white and having an opinion!) I find it quite depressing!
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Galo Sowe
Sweden
116 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 00:29:55
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
Whilst I would never want to defend colonialism or racism of any form NEITHER do I want to be personally held responsible for something white people before my time did. That is a bit like making all Germans responsible for Hitler.
I joined these pages to learn more about The Gambia and join in healthy debate about Gambian issues.
I didn't think it would be a political anti white site.
The tone of many responses is patronising and racist (against me for being white and having an opinion!) I find it quite depressing!
You are not being fair to us by your statement "I didn't think it would be a political anti white site." Stay on forums that are less political for you and ask the questions you want to know about the Gambia. I am sure someone will be willing to answer them for you.
However, don't think that people will agree with you always.
Here we agree to disagree on many issues. Perhaps you should keep a low profile and don't participate when issues concerning colonislism and racism is being discussed if you think you will take it too personal and feel guilty of what someone else is doing or has done.
We discuss every thing at a Bantaba and the fact is that Britain colonised The Gambia and Gambians experience racism in your country too, so once a while they will be discussed. This does not make you a racist and I have not read any article on this site where someone is saying that all British are bad or racist. My father had been kidnapped from his village Bantaba and forced to fight in the second world war even though the war was far away in Europe and Asia. Gambians and other Africans participated in freeying Europe. Britain never compensated any of the war veterans as the French did. These are facts and should also be part of discussions here.
Feel at home, as a guest but please do not believe that you can dictate what should be or should not be discussed here. |
"Soldiers are experts at camouflage but that is on the battle field not the political one, were transparency is the watch word" Kaaniba |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 02:07:44
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Gambiabev... In debates people say their opinion, that is how you create a debate. What sort of debate would it be if everyone just agreed to what you had to say the whole time? If you canīt take the heat, why cause a debate to start with?
Of course you know that in a debate you say your opinion, you listen to others opinions, you may argue about the opinions and in the end hopefully learn something new from the debate. I think this debate about Africans finally starting to criticizing the West is a very positive debate. A debate can change something negative into something positive when more people are involved and aware of the problem that caused a big debate.
Me myself, I am only critizicing the "white against non-white" System we still have here in the West. That is my opinion after what I have witnessed and I do not choose to keep my eyes closed whenever something is unfair. I think black people are treated very bad still today. So having that said and being a white girl, does that make me Anti white, a racist against my own colour? Of course not.
No one is here to attack you on a personal level, so why do you feel so attacked that you think people have something against you just because you are white and have an opinion? We all have opinions.  |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 10:27:59
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Galo I was SO sad when I heard about your father. I didnt know about this happening. i am aware that HISTORY is a social construct by the writers and can be made to reflect the country it is written for in a good light.
Gambian people I have met in Gambia have always been very friendly and welcoming to me. We have met as one preson to another regardless of skin. Perhaps that is why I am shocked by the anti white feeling on some topics. I would be interested in the perspective of Gambians in Gambia. |
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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 10:53:14
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Hey
Sorry, I know you said you wanted views of Gambians in Gambia
yes, history is history but what has been done since then?Nothing!!!
I beliebe we COULD change and improve our world IF WE WANTED TO.Therefore, I see ourselves as ignorists.This is no accusation, please don't get me wrong but look at the world, things could be so different if only we wanted it to be(or we had a chance to).What could I do as an individual to change the world???If I knew, I would do it straight away.But I don't, so all we can do is carry on as always and ignore the rest of the world
I would never get upset if black people accuse us because they have the right.Not us as individuals but as a people.Because we know our history, yet still, we just carry on pretending nothing can be done...."This was in the past, let's forget that."
The older I get and the more I see what is happening in the world, the more I want to leave this corrupt system, because I don't want to be part of this ignorist world.
Sorry, this is not against you gambiabev, I see you are very openminded.
It is not you who is accused here but our system. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 10:59:53
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There ARE things you can do on a small scale. Vote. March. Lobby MPS. Go to work in Africa. etc etc... Sponsor a childs education...
All small things......but from acorns grow oak trees...... We have to TRY at least! |
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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 11:49:42
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Like my husband says "The majority rock the boat". If only we could be part of such a majority.
I like your optimism
LOL, by the way, I am not allowed to vote in the UK.(Sorry, Have to tell you this story) .........Me and my hubby had sent off the application to register to vote here.A reply letter came with a paper for my hubby to sign.(He's only been here for a short while)I phoned them up to ask why I don't get a form to sign(assuming I should because I am an EU national), I would have this right, not my hubby.The lady on the phone explained to me that Gambian nationals are part of the commonwealth so therefore he has the right to wote.
I FELT SOOO ASHAMED!!!!!! (and happy for him at the same time).
In my country of origin he had no rights, people wouldn't even sit next to a black on the bus or train...so I automatically assumed it would be the same here......An African can have the right to vote and me as an EU national doesn't.Shame on me
This is a small example of white people, no matter how openminded they think they are(me ),we still have undermining thought, even if they are not meant to be.
Sorry, back to the topic
Charities, no thank you. I'd rather support people myself, I want to know where the charity is going.I don't want another Westerner to cut his slice.But our situation is not the best,and we rather support our family in Gambia as good as we can.
Work in Africa,hmmmm....will there be a job for me?There are hardly enough jobs for Gambians.No, I am an old-fashioned woman who, if possible, would stay at home to look after the house and children.That is a job and a half anyway....respect to you Gambian women, I've done it all on my own, and boy did I get fit
You are right, Gambiabev, from acorns grow oaktrees and we all have to try our best |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 11:56:28
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Trying to support your family or A family in Gambia ia a very good thing.
If you were interested in a charity, personally i like the work that I see in Gambia from Action Aid. It is about empowering local people to make local decisions. What I have seen seems good.
I try to stay optimistic, because the other choice is to be defeated. It does seem a massive task and one person cant do everything. I wish I could!!!
Which country are you from? Are you white and married to a Gambian?
If so, how goes it? It is something I am thinking of!!!!!!!! |
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dave
Ireland
89 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 19:56:59
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Gambiabev
may i ask how many times you have visited The Gambia?? |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 22:16:11
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 22:40:28
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Each visit has been very packed! I visit Pirang, Tendaba, Kolior, Kwinella, Diana, Brufut, Ghana town, Serrekunda, Brikama, Banjul as well as having a bit of time at the coast.
It is fast becoming my second home. I aim to visit at least twice a year if funds permit.
I want to learn as much as I can about the country and its people.
Thats why this web site is so good. Wish more Gambians in Gambia would contribute.......but know it is relatively expensive and difficult to get access apart from at coast and Soma.
Why are you interested to know how many times I've been? |
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BornAfrican
United Kingdom
119 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 02:48:53
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Originally posted by gambiabev
Each visit has been very packed! I visit Pirang, Tendaba, Kolior, Kwinella, Diana, Brufut, Ghana town, Serrekunda, Brikama, Banjul as well as having a bit of time at the coast.
BornAfrican:
Hello Bev or shall i say gambiabev?. I am really impressed you have been to places in the Gambia where i haven't set my feet. Travelling around Africa or within a particular African country should be kinda very intresting especially if you are from the West. Don't get me wrong, i have travelled around West Africa myself. I have been to Senegal, Mali, Ghana, Nigeria, Boukina Fasso, Niger and Guinea Conakry. I travelled from the Gambia to Nigeria by land three times. Its horrible, each trip takes me atleast 12 days. Sometimes i get to some places and i get gripped by some fear. Wild imaginations about me loosing my cash in the middle of nowhere. No telecommunication facilities and it takes you ages before you even see a car in those parts of Africa. But travelling has helped me a lot. It helped me appreciate other people. I hope your Gambian experience do the same for you . Before i reach 30, i want to travel to North Africa by land. This will be after i have graduated and i am back to the Gambia.
gambiabev:
It is fast becoming my second home. I aim to visit at least twice a year if funds permit.
BornAfrican:
Sometimes what puzzles me is how some people could be forced to live in one particular place while others go around the world freely. Again don't get it wrong Bev. I am very opened minded so sometimes want to spew out even my sub-concious thoughts. Living in England, i see teenagers packing their bags to go out for holidays anywhere in the world. Me as an African, i am not allowed to visit almost all those countries. It hurts a lot. I want to travel. Infact i have more cash in the bank than some of those European teenagers roaming everywhere in the world. I have a better education than most of them. I have more to loose than most of them. Why can't i travel around the world? Can you imagine how many Gambians want to come and see England but they are not allowed to? On the contrary, the Gambia is becoming your second home. Don't you think those Gambians have the right to see England and what the english culture is like? Surely, they do, but they do not qualify the world's "economic standards". I believe one appreciates others more, when he/she knows them. The basic ingredient of hatred is ignorance.
gambiabev:
I want to learn as much as I can about the country and its people.
Thats why this web site is so good. Wish more Gambians in Gambia would contribute.......but know it is relatively expensive and difficult to get access apart from at coast and Soma.
BornAfrican:
Its good to learn as much as you can about the Gambia and her people. But no matter how good this site is, your visits to the Gambia physically, will enhance what you read on this forum a lot. It reminds me of few years ago when i was still in secondary school. When my geography teacher tries to describe me the white cliffs of Dover. He himself has never seen them and he tries to tell me how they look. Isn't that ridiculous? A blind man describing the moon to a fellow blind man. Now i have seen the cliffs of Dover, no one can preach me about them. I am in a much better position to write about them with added help of those text books i read in secondary school. You see, this is the kinda help travelling gives to people. Have you read about that English girl who saved the lives of people during the Sunami simply because she learnt something here in England and passed it on to people in another part of the world to save their lives? How wonderful was that?
gambiabev:
Why are you interested to know how many times I've been?
BornAfrican
this one is not for me i guess
Bev, you see, i have stayed away from the Gambia for so long and i think it has messed me up. Sometimes, i just wish i did not get out of the Gambia, but there is a harculean price to pay for that: "ignorance"!. Thou shall fear ignorance for it is humankind's worst enemy[/quote] |
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Amna
Gambia
76 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 09:11:34
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Dear GambiaBev,
You are an okay person. Writing on an open forum is a challenging task, everytime you write you open up and become vulnerable but that is the nicest part, the ability to allow a different view into yourself.
I have had some interesting and tough exchanges in the heyday of the Bantaba. We have some tough and insightful people on the net. But hanging in there and sometimes dishing out as much as you receive.
Anyway I just want to reiterate something that even though as humans, we are shaped by our environment and personal experiences and rightly we should be judged on our own merits, as Martin Luther King Jnr so eloquently put in " by the content of character not the color of our skins" and I add "our sex"...but the fact remains that the world is a legacy system and just like Zimbabwe or South Africa, some structures were created and inherited and defended stanchly that were unfair and I dont advocate violent change but change it must, because the world cannot continue as is. Anyway while personal experiences are good to share, de-personalizing and de-generalizing are essential and necessary for credible discourse.
Another point, my dear lady, you keep saying, why dont you go back to Africa or Gambia and improve it..I will tell you why...
The West thrives on a system of economic exploitation backed by military might and have largely foisted client regimes in the theird world..that is why if I want freedom, I better go to the West. If I want economic advancement I better go to the West..
Why should I leave my 3000 pound job and relative freedom for Junkung's failed dictatorship where I am paid D10,000 and can be picked up and brutalized by Junkung's hench men anytime. The fact is the West is relatively freer and better inspite and despite some institutional racism and the new terror laws that are more a guise for a police state that fighting terrorists recruited, indoctrinated and trained by the MI 5 and 6, CIA and their surrogates in Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia - but that is another topic.
Visiting Gambia and living there as a Gambian are entirely different things and while I appreciate your love and efforts for The Gambia, do you know there are different sets of rules for you and I, created and installed in our slave/colonial psyches that all whites are "massa" and there even used to be " British Protected Persons", Africans or Coloureds who work for and were protected by the British and touch them at your peril.
When Yaya Jammeh or other pinhead dictators like him detain, torture and make us disappear, you luckily are immune from that and the state and reign of terror he and his like unleash on us, the poor natives. Imagine the silence of the world media to what is happening in The Gambia, Uganda and Sudan as compared to the 20,000 British Zimbabweans..then you will understand. It is not you or your fault. It is a SYSTEM that holds one race superior than another and values that race's wellbeing better than others. It has been in active existence for 600 years and I was defined as non human and chattel, it is changing and will change but not overnight.
Nonetheless, I respect you and salute your humanity and appreciate your presence and contributions on the web. And I am sure you are learning alot on the Forum more than what you can learn from Gambians/Africans where our traditional xenophilia [love of strangers] and hospitality if not fear of Junkung and his thugs makes us tell you always " No problem".
High regards. |
Amna |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 09:52:37
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Born Africa..... as a Westerner I think it is a basic human right to travel freely. I paid for my Gambia guide to get a bank account and a passport. He wanted to come to England for his friends graduation ceremony. He wasnt allowed the visa, even with me as his sponsor because they didnt trust him to go back. It is disgusting!!  |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 10:07:31
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Amna I appreciate that the West offers better economic standards for you as an individual. But your country does NEED intelligent middle class people. This is the layer of people that seem to be missing. Hopefully having a university in Gambia instead of people having to leave the country for education MIGHT help people stay and contribute.I recently met an eye doctor at Kwinella who was Gambian. He has come back to help his people. He could earn a fortune in Britain. Perhaps he will do a bit of both. But for now he is in Kwinella running an eye clinic. Fantastic!
Without wanting to be too sentimental about the african village, it has a great deal going for it that we have lost in the west. It has crushing poverty and terrible disease BUT you care for each other. You arent lonely, you dont have terrible depression and suicide rates, your old people are respected and cared for.
In England we have a saying 'dont throw the baby out with the bath water'. ie dont get rid of the good with the bad.
In trying to improve the economic condition I do hope it is not inevitable that Gambia takes on all American traits. For westernisation these days means Americanisation.....even in Britian....we have been taken over!
When I say 'go back to your country' I dont say that in a racist way....I mean it in a POSITIVE way for the Gambia. Of course it is a personal choice....and a difficult one. Perhas you can help more by earning in the west and sending money back?
One day I hope The Gambia will be a true democracy where everyone is equal and has the same rights. Why should I be able to walk freely on the beach, but my Gambian friend gets taken away and beaten for trying to walk on the beach with me? That is terrible and needs changing! |
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sunshine
Afghanistan
8 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 17:08:37
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
Born Africa..... as a Westerner I think it is a basic human right to travel freely. I paid for my Gambia guide to get a bank account and a passport. He wanted to come to England for his friends graduation ceremony. He wasnt allowed the visa, even with me as his sponsor because they didnt trust him to go back. It is disgusting!!
LOL! So would you trust your guide to go back? Old ladies like you are very easy to fool |
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