Bantaba in Cyberspace
Bantaba in Cyberspace
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ | Invite a friend
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 General Forum
 General Forum: General discussion
 THE BLACK TRAGEDY
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
| More
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

serenata



Germany
1400 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2006 :  20:06:58  Show Profile Send serenata a Private Message
BornAfrican, I am white, but I can imagine what you feel and I am very, very sorry. I don't know how things are in UK, but Germany, be sure, is a really racistic country. Many Germans are so narrowminded they can see through a keyhole with both eyes at once. Of course not all people are like that, but the number of those who are is far too high to be ignored. Certain media like the right-wing 'BILD'-newspaper(with a minimum of 4 Million readers per day; the favourite newspaper of the Christian Democratic party, CDU/CSU) constantly poison the people's mind with racistic an xenophobic propaganda.

I fully agree with Tairema: "As long as the poor masses focus on racism they will not stand up against the rich few, so it is in the best interest for the rich in this world that racism is cultivated and incouraged as a decoy so they can keep on getting richer while the poor fight amoung themselves". As long as those who are at the bottom of the social ladder get the feeling that there are some standing even lower they will not look up and watch out for what those on top are doing to them. Germany is the perfect example: The unemployment and poverty rate in the eastern part of the country is terribly high, and here you find the most and the worst racists.

The principle behind all this is the Roman motto 'Divide et impera' - Divide people and rule over them. Bob Marley sang "They don't want to see us live together" and meant the same.

BornAfrican, cheer up - you are not alone.
Go to Top of Page

njucks

Gambia
1131 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2006 :  22:13:38  Show Profile Send njucks a Private Message
BornAfrican i agree with you. like most gambians we were brought up to respect others especially those who are older than us. racism sadly is a fact of like gambiabev said and its not a black or white thing. in my opinion it depends mainly on what is the easiest thing to pick on. for example in western cultures skin colour is the most obvious and easiest thing. but race itself is difficult to define nowadays. i share the same skin colour with a black person from Australia but we are not from the same race, but we will recieve the same level of racism if we both lived in any western capital. an african american is probably closer to george bush than to me, a gambian.

in africa today were most people are black, skin colour proves to be a problem to differentiate so the easiest thing to pick on is ethnicity.a good example is Ivory Coast and ''ivorite'' what it means is ivorianess. if you are tall,muslim and from the northern part with a name like Touray,Trawally or Watara then you are not as ivorian as a short, christian from the south with a name like Koffi. its worse in central africa where being either Tutsi/Hutu could be a problem depending where u come from. in India it takes a religious tone with a strict caste system, with 'untouchables' being discriminated agianst.

racism is largely ignorance and 'percieved' insecurity due to the presence of others. i lived in UK like you and i dont think its a racist society.because of their great history they are more exposed to other cultures and are very open minded. indeed you can say its probably the only country in the europe where every institution, office or hospital has minorities working in it. even the most remote hospital in uk has an indian doctor or west indian nurse for example.

of course everything is relative and compared to other developed countries Britain is way down the list. my only direct and personal experience of racism was on the continent, and belai trust me its bad!!!! i think Britain is a society that makes a great effort to educate and stop racism as well as punish it and i have never honestly experienced it there personally. i saw it on TV, news (steven lawrence/Damilola), etc i would however share two experiences with you,

my favorite was a BT advert i think it was about mobile phone roaming. this guy was in Africa and called his friend back home in UK from his mobile. the friend ask hows he's enjoying the safari and if he's enjoying the wildlife, he jokingly replied, asking the two legged kind or four legged kind? most likely it wasnt intentional but passive.

the second experience happened in back home in The Gambia. a high school friend came home on holiday from the US. one evening we went to senegambia and decided to go to this place just by the gamtel owned by a lebanese. two gambian 'bouncers/doormen' at the door told us that it was full and we could wait till few people left then we could go in. so we decided to wait a few minutes. then two eurpoean girls came up, the doormen opened the door and the girls just walked RIGHT THROUGH!!!. i was shocked, but i thought i would just express my contempt in silence and leave. my friend would have none of it especially in his own country! a fight nearly broke out. in the end we didnt get in either.

my view is racism is everywhere, (in different colours apparently) so just get on with your life and surround your self with intelligent people who would not just share their experiences with you but are eager to learn from you as well.
Go to Top of Page

Formby

United Kingdom
246 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2006 :  22:52:55  Show Profile Send Formby a Private Message
I work for the British Civil Service in London and in my Department, the legal services are dominated by Asians. I am of a middle management grade and in my Divison, there are as many Afro Caribbeans or Black British in the Grade as there are whites. The Division next to me is headed by a Black British (that's a Senior Civil Service grade, a mandarin) and our Head of Communications (very very senior) is Nigerian. (And a woman!). When I was first working there (many years ago..!) there was talk of 'tokenism' when someone none white achieved management or Senior grades. You nver hear a whisper of it now, it's not even a consideration. So I like to think things are getting better.

I don't think the UK is perfect, especially not in small town England (but then small towns everywhere are suspicious of 'the other') but in London here, we all just live together. We know that's where our strength lies.

How do we make things as good as we can? Look in any classroom in London. You'll see the rainbow of humanity.
That's where unity starts.



BTW, Njucks, I see what you are getting at re the BT ad, but I think what he meant by 'wildlife' was women. Any type. Tourists, whatever. It was just a blokey way of asking if he was getting laid on his holiday. In the British male culture men must be seen to be getting laid all the time, otherwise their mates will ridicule them. So ad agencies reflect this to make male consumers feel as though, if they identify with that product, they too will be sexy babe magnets. Sad but true. They have similar ones for women, where we ring each other up, drunk on wine, for a long conversation about 'what a ****** he is'. Etc.


Go to Top of Page

Janyanfara



Tanzania
1350 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2006 :  15:24:16  Show Profile Send Janyanfara a Private Message
Hey sister Omega-brother Born African,
Cool Down and learn to forgive.
We as Africans in Eorope and America should only learn one thing ...NO MATTER HOW A LOG REMAINS IN WATER,IT CAN NEVER TURN IN TO A CROCODILE....Lets try and think of Home.THERE IS NO PLACE LIKE HOME....Most Africans when they come to Babylon,The first thing they think of is how to naturalise and abandon Africa.Look lets face it How many African interlectuals/professonals do we have in the European and American Hospitals,universities and Enterprices just to name a few? Even some of our best tallented one are abandoning us.Lets not do that despite the hard conditions back home YOU could make a difference back home and your difference could engined someone to do the same.This is how Europe and America developed and are still developing.....Using Black labour..., WE need to do our coata to develop Africa from where it is now but of us have betrayed Africa which is rather unfortunate which is sad.
We can blame the white people 4 slavery but think hard...the blame must go to our own Greedy,vitious,brutal in-human African chiefs and kings who were selling their fellow men and women to the whites for ...Mirrows, Gun powder, and armunition just to be more powerful and to ennable them to conquere more territories and enslave more 4 sale....Sisters and brothers think hard of these inhuman treatments metted out to fellow Africans by their own rulers.
The same system is still beeing practiced in certain parts of Africa despite after the abolishing of slavery world wide.Africa still practices it Why?
Africa has to throw away certain customs and accept society in other to develop.Some people we consider slaves are very tallented and can contribute so well to the socio economic and educational developments of the arrear they live in.
Despite not beeing born in a slave clan,You sometimes wonder how the people we consider slaves feel.I come from a society of Free borns,(though I never believed in slavery ), my first Girlfriend was seen by my community as from the slave clan and despite my family's anger and total disapproval, we secretly continued to be in love ( then we were young and afraid of our parents).Now as she is married, we are still remain the best of friends.
The WEST maybe blamed for some part of slavery,but We We and We have to bare some of the responsibilities.If some body hates you or didn't like you,that person may never get you if you know how to play your cards.But what about when you live in his House and eat His food and drink served by Him?
There is no way 4 rasism to die out..wake up...kong kong kong... anybody there?.... They will teach their childreen and their childreen's childreen. And any time you talk about it they will flatly denie it...Any white who is colour blind is because has seen the tallents of other colours and is trying to learn from it
BLACKS needs to wake up and realise the reality 4 our themselves.There is nobody to blame but ourselves.Every black comes from somewhere,try to look 4 your identity and develop your identity, then you shall be saved.
Peace and love
Mankajang Janyanfara. xx
Go to Top of Page

gambiabev

United Kingdom
3091 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2006 :  18:38:28  Show Profile Send gambiabev a Private Message
I am very interested in the idea of a slave clan in Gambia...... does it really still have impact today? You said an ex girlfriend was still considered to be from that clan. Which tribe is this in?

When I tried to raise this elsewhere on bantaba alot of Africans were angry with me and denied it.

I have heard of sulas and nymalos in Mandika. The idea is one set is BORN superior to the other. Is this still true?

'Social mobility' is an important concept in democracies. The success of a democracy can be measured by the social mobility of its people AND how it treats its 'underclass'. America scores very highly on social mobility, but because of that mobility it is not very compassionate to its 'lower' classes. It really is survival of the fitest. The pictures of the huricane victims in New Orleans confirmed that.

To be a good democracy people need the opportunity to succeed no matter what family they are born to (usually through education) and if they have problems along the way (health, housing, work ) they need to be compasionately treated by the state.

UK is NOT perfect, but I do believe it is about 80% there.
Go to Top of Page

serenata



Germany
1400 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2006 :  19:46:10  Show Profile Send serenata a Private Message
Janyanfara, what you say is right - it is dangerous for (black) people to regard themselves only as victims. But stopping to play the victim's role is not always easy...

An example: At least once in her lifetime every woman in our societies encounters the brother of racism, sexism, who is as ugly as his twin. One of the first things women in a patriarchal society learn is to regard themselves as inferior to men. Pure nonsense, but still a strong belief. Consequently, mothers from patriarchal societies pay much more attention to their 'valuable' sons than to their 'worthless' daughters, and so the vicious game is continued BY THEMSELVES. Who is the victim? Who is the offender? At which point could they stop the game?
Go to Top of Page

gambiabev

United Kingdom
3091 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2006 :  19:55:38  Show Profile Send gambiabev a Private Message
Fathers have an important role to play in that and grandfathers. Mine BOTH bought me up to believe i was as good as any man and capable of doing whatever I wanted in life. Self belief is a powerful tool against lifes knocks.....

Sadly it is often mothers that favour sons.....I have never understood this.
Go to Top of Page

gambiabev

United Kingdom
3091 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2006 :  20:02:09  Show Profile Send gambiabev a Private Message
It is not just an african idea. In Uk mothers often favour sons.... I have two daughters and people have often said to me and my ex husband what a shame you didnt have a son. I have NEVER felt that because I believe my daughters are individuals and capable of achieving great things.

In China and India women often abort girl babies or leave them on oneside to die. This is SO sad.

It perhaps was the economic case that boys would look after their families...but now it is equally the case that girls can do this if they are educated.

In India families want a boy so he can perform the last rites.....

It is all so complex....but on an individual basis we should value boys and girls equally......

If we elect to abort girls then long term society will be out of balance.......

I could rant on and on and on on this subject!!!! But I wont
Go to Top of Page

serenata



Germany
1400 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2006 :  15:03:37  Show Profile Send serenata a Private Message
Pondering on the question of sexism again, I remembered:

For the survival of the species, it is MUCH, MUCH more important to have a sufficient number of girls rather than boys. And more: In times of war, hunger etc., when only strong individua have a chance to survive, you always and everywhere see a significantly higher rate of female births. Baby girls are stronger; even in 'normal' times their chances to survive are far better, which makes them mother nature's first choice in difficult times.

So, normally women should be happy to give birth to a strong, healthy XX instead of a delicate, time consuming XY. Why are they not? Perhaps they behave like they do because they instinctively know XYs need more care, and they just give them what they need. From this care, men derived the idea to be something better, and at a certain time in history the sexistic carousel started...
Go to Top of Page

kassma



334 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2006 :  07:59:48  Show Profile Send kassma a Private Message
interesting subject, i have my own theory: just as blacks can internalize racism, females can internalize sexism as well. i totally agree that girls are stronger than boys and have a higher chance of survival, i have no idea whether it is nature or nuture, but really no one will ever know. my theory is that in the beginning, men exploited women as their slaves to do whatever they wanted them to do, especially tedious things like raising children and taking care of the home. my evidence is that almost all over the world, most women share the same role. and also, in the 20th century there were a lot of feminist movements, indicating that not only did women not like the roles handed down to them, they didn't thing it was just. only a few, few cultures do the role of homemaker fall to the man. i think as a way of adapting to the situation, women not only accepted their situation, but also embellished it with sexuality and love as a way to have a "say," or some type of control over men while still showing the man that he is the one "really" in control.
Go to Top of Page

serenata



Germany
1400 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2006 :  13:14:16  Show Profile Send serenata a Private Message
Oh yes, Kassma, you are right. The patriarchal Christian churches (Catholic and Protestant alike) were aware of this: They regarded sex as a sinful 'female' domain; they became afraid of women and of the control women could gain over them via sexuality. This lead to the hysterical mass murder on European women from 1275 to 1792, where almost one million women were tortured and burned as 'witches'.

Back to racism: Black US-Activist Eldridge Cleaver, one of the founders of the Black Panther movement in the 60ies, pointed out in his book 'Soul on Ice' that white men fear black men as dangerous sexual rivals and out of this fear try to suppress them. I read this book maybe 20 years ago and don’t remember how he said it, but his arguments, though they were polemic, seemed to make sense. Many white women, for what reason ever (maybe it is the solidarity of the suppressed? ), show they are fond of black men, and the silly myths about the potency of black men seemingly cannot be exterminated. Consequently, in racist remarks against blacks, there is often a sexual component, revealing that Cleaver’s theory of fear is at least partly true. To me, it seems that besides the class matter mentioned by Tairema there is a lot of this dimension, too.

Poor white man – seeing the white ’witch’ together with the mighty black rival must be a strong reason to feel uneasy...
Go to Top of Page

kassma



334 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2006 :  23:59:26  Show Profile Send kassma a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Janyanfara

Hey sister Omega-brother Born African,
Cool Down and learn to forgive.
We as Africans in Eorope and America should only learn one thing ...NO MATTER HOW A LOG REMAINS IN WATER,IT CAN NEVER TURN IN TO A CROCODILE....Lets try and think of Home.THERE IS NO PLACE LIKE HOME....Most Africans when they come to Babylon,The first thing they think of is how to naturalise and abandon Africa.Look lets face it How many African interlectuals/professonals do we have in the European and American Hospitals,universities and Enterprices just to name a few? Even some of our best tallented one are abandoning us.Lets not do that despite the hard conditions back home YOU could make a difference back home and your difference could engined someone to do the same.This is how Europe and America developed and are still developing.....Using Black labour..., WE need to do our coata to develop Africa from where it is now but of us have betrayed Africa which is rather unfortunate which is sad.
We can blame the white people 4 slavery but think hard...the blame must go to our own Greedy,vitious,brutal in-human African chiefs and kings who were selling their fellow men and women to the whites for ...Mirrows, Gun powder, and armunition just to be more powerful and to ennable them to conquere more territories and enslave more 4 sale....Sisters and brothers think hard of these inhuman treatments metted out to fellow Africans by their own rulers.
The same system is still beeing practiced in certain parts of Africa despite after the abolishing of slavery world wide.Africa still practices it Why?
Africa has to throw away certain customs and accept society in other to develop.Some people we consider slaves are very tallented and can contribute so well to the socio economic and educational developments of the arrear they live in.
Despite not beeing born in a slave clan,You sometimes wonder how the people we consider slaves feel.I come from a society of Free borns,(though I never believed in slavery ), my first Girlfriend was seen by my community as from the slave clan and despite my family's anger and total disapproval, we secretly continued to be in love ( then we were young and afraid of our parents).Now as she is married, we are still remain the best of friends.
The WEST maybe blamed for some part of slavery,but We We and We have to bare some of the responsibilities.If some body hates you or didn't like you,that person may never get you if you know how to play your cards.But what about when you live in his House and eat His food and drink served by Him?
There is no way 4 rasism to die out..wake up...kong kong kong... anybody there?.... They will teach their childreen and their childreen's childreen. And any time you talk about it they will flatly denie it...Any white who is colour blind is because has seen the tallents of other colours and is trying to learn from it
BLACKS needs to wake up and realise the reality 4 our themselves.There is nobody to blame but ourselves.Every black comes from somewhere,try to look 4 your identity and develop your identity, then you shall be saved.
Peace and love
Mankajang Janyanfara. xx




Janyanfara, you have made some good points but please, do not be so harsh on your people. don't lets whites fool you into thinking that all africans sold their own people for mirrors and other stupids things. africa is too big a continent to make such ignorant generalizations about what went on back then. it is simply things white people say, actually BROADCAST, to take the guilt off themselves. yeah, some of it is true, but the number of kings or chiefs who did that i can guarantee does not equal the number of heartless white men who came and captured our people. so even before you talk about our old kings, don't forget that 99% of the slavery was caused by whites.about our new leaders, i can understand your fustrations, but really, the new leaders of africans are just simply imitating the behavior of the white colonials. white colonials ruled by force and that's the only example they've seen to rule over people. especially if you are coming from poverty and get a hold of power and money, most people can't handle that and want to keep everything for themselves. but like i've stated before, there is no point in focusing on the negative about africa, instead focus on possible solutions. i think with every new generation, there is a greater chance for change in africa. most of the violent, crazy leaders are the ones right from colonialism or the generation after that. i do agree that too many africans are dependent on the west as their home and opportunity of having a good life. it ridiculous that they don't realize that they might live in the west, the west will never be their home. at home, you shouldn't be treated as, or looked down upon as a second class citizen. the sad thing is, some people find that acceptable.
Go to Top of Page

toubab

Gambia
92 Posts

Posted - 18 Feb 2006 :  00:49:21  Show Profile Send toubab a Private Message
Hi Sister Omega, I knew that would get you to reply. I'm sure if this womans appeal is genuine it will be upheld.Britain like the Uk is a democracy.My husband was born in the WI, so has no apology, but bears no hatred towards the system.W e are here because we decided to do something with the years we have left together, and the few hiccups we have here can be ignored,we love being together and living a different life. We don't want to save Africa, they can do that themselves, if they want to. We just want to live.I just get so incensed by the vitriol thats comes out of some people on this bantaba, it can only stop when we stop.
Go to Top of Page

Sister Omega



United Kingdom
2085 Posts

Posted - 18 Feb 2006 :  01:34:17  Show Profile  Visit Sister Omega's Homepage Send Sister Omega a Private Message
Toubab you make me laugh I am so predictable I better start changing my strategy.

You know wherever you live there will be different problems it's just a part of life.

I think when approaching issues of race, its good to start of with the fundamental principle that there is good and bad in every race. It is the institutionalised system of racism which is the problem and sometimes it is necessary to dig out the root of the problem.

The title Black Tradegy is a tradegy in itself, feeling victimicised is a tragedy in itself. It is necessary to appreciate good and bad experiences in life and to learn from them. This makes us wiser and maturer. As human beings we all are imperfect and of course we all make mistakes. Racism is a big mistake built on the foundations of power and greed. As others have pointed out that both Africans and Europeans but forgot to mention the Arabs, played their part in the slave trade. And I think that all reasonable people would recognise that it was and still is a Crime Against Humanity that must not be repeated again. And until is recognised internationally for what it was and still is a Crime Against Humanity then contemporary slavery will continue.

Today's slaves as in the times of the Roman Empire and even at the beginning of the Transatlantic Slave Trade were of different races. Until laws were passed in the early 18th Century in America to perpetually enslave Africans, and since then racism an extention of the class system is still here today.

As BornAfrican pointed out he had a faint idea of what racism was. He was only confronted by it when coming over to the west. Now he's been experiencing it in his everyday life like millions of others.It will be two hundred years next year since slavery has been abolished Africans are still facing discrimination, and Toubab you encountered some of that resentment today from a Gambian in Gambia.

Until there is an acknowledgement and an attonement made to our ancestors for the victimisation they encountered their descendents worldwide and descendents of those Africans, Arabs and Europeans who profitted from the trade recognise the Transatlantic Slave Trade as a Crime Against Humanity as well these resentments will continue.

So I think its time for us to find a solution and help to bring humanity to another level in our indivdual ways.

Peace

Sister Omega

Peace
Sister Omega
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
| More
Jump To:
Bantaba in Cyberspace © 2005-2024 Nijii Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.16 seconds. User Policy, Privacy & Disclaimer | Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06