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Janko

Gambia
1267 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  12:18:44  Show Profile  Visit Janko's Homepage Send Janko a Private Message
What´s up guys,
so,
now tell me,
how is this getting anywhere.
The medley is mono-toned and getting tedious by the nanosecond.

Freedom cannot be destroyed but redirected, therefore every freedom has an equal and opposite responsibility. (who said that about energy)


Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy
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toubab1020



12312 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  12:37:43  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
Janko, its part of the never ending circle of political stuff that gets nowhere,no new policies or ideas just the same old slanging match between basicially two sides,with a little bit of opposition infighting, just a waste,no progress,celiberity back slapping, not nation building and development,
Ahh.... Africa.........The Toubab just cannot understand!!

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.

Edited by - toubab1020 on 18 Jul 2011 12:38:53
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turk



USA
3356 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  14:14:15  Show Profile  Visit turk's Homepage Send turk a Private Message
Touby

Every country has different problems and different realities. These problems are solved with the different process, platform and timeline. For example:

Norway: GDP per capita is 30 times more than Gambia. That means, they have 30 times more resources for problems solving than Gambia. In Norway, an average family usually does not worry about school fee, hospital care, food and accommodation that much. There are welfare payment, schools are free, health care has good quality and free. Why? Because there are more resources for the solutions. And democratic participation is easier to anyone. There are more women on every level of the government. They know what to vote. They are informed. They have better statistics about government services and economies. Most can access to newspaper, internet, tv to be informed and aware of political process.

The problems needs to be addressed in different areas. What are these areas. Social/Cultural, economic and political. In Norway, they already solved many problems in social, cultural and economic areas. They don't really need to focus these areas, they can focus more on political processes. And also it is easier for people of Norway to focus on political process, because they are more equipped for that. The system is established. Political process has more power to change things around but these changes are not that challenging.

Most western countries are benefit from slavery, colonization for a long time. They got wealthy and established the system. Their human capital is better, they are more productive now due to these wealth and social investment.

Gambia does not have these luxury. There is no question if you consider of ability of individual Gambian and a person from Europe is equal. I mean, if you put a Gambian in a society like Norway where he or she can get all the benefits from the system. He or she will be productive, efficient and equipped with all the skills and knowledge necessary to be productive i.e. aware of political process. If someone from Norway live in a society like in Gambia, because of the lack of wealth, social investment, educational opportunities, he or she is going to be less productive, efficient and equipped to be aware for example political participation. I realize that when I say 'Gambians' are not capable, some get offended but I don't mean this as a 'racial', 'ethnic' reasons. I mean this based on the 'social' and 'economic' reasons they do not have chance to get skills, knowledge to be equipped to be participant in political process.

So, when you deal with the problem, there are different areas to focus for different terms. There are so much work required on social, cultural and economic areas for Gambians to be improved. But these changes can not get result in short term. In Gambia, I agree political process could change but its impact and significant is not that great. Therefore, the focus, energy spent on political process is not going to return that much as benefit. I strongly believe that if today Jammeh is gone, there will not be much different and we still continue to, I quote

quote:
its part of the never ending circle of political stuff that gets nowhere,no new policies or ideas just the same old slanging match between basicially two sides,with a little bit of opposition infighting, just a waste,no progress,celiberity back slapping, not nation building and development


For example, corruption. It is not coincidence is corruption is wide spread in under developed countries. I mean, can you blame a Gambian police officer with 3000 Dalasi salary (Almost 3 bags of rice) not to corrupt. How are you going to solve this problem. Not Jammeh, most of the civil servant have power are using their power and authority to get a benefit. If, this is a problem of the society for everyone, most likely, if Jammeh is gone, whoever replaces him will do just the same. Yes, there can be some policies can be applied and make things different, not that significantly but it can. Let us talk about this. Let us talk about 'specific' policies, ideas to make Gambia better. Jammeh bashing is not going to help. I been to many countries around the region, Senegal, Mali, Mauritania, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, SL, Liberia, Gambia, despite all disadvantages, it looks much better than them. They key is stability, safety and Gambian's people strength, nature being peaceful than others. I realize that Jammeh is not a good leader, I accept that,but things are not easy to change even someone like Mandela, Ataturk, Churchill, Gandhi etc.



diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.

Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices.

Edited by - turk on 18 Jul 2011 14:25:29
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toubab1020



12312 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  15:43:56  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
Turk,thanks, as I know you are not a stupid man,and judging by your last posting know very many things,I agree with most of what you have written, I also agree when you make this statement

:"Therefore, the focus, energy spent on political process is not going to return that much as benefit. I strongly believe that if today Jammeh is gone, there will not be much different and we still continue to, I quote"

I think that you should also consider your position on focusing on:
"Most western countries are benefit from slavery, colonization for a long time. They got wealthy and established the system. "

True but that was 300 years or so ago,there has been little development in Africa (South Africa is a possible exception ) since,take India,Parkastan, your own Turkey for example,all have been the subject of colonisation or dispotic rule in the past look at their development now.

I agree with your next sentence:
"Their human capital is better, they are more productive now due to these wealth and social investment"

Corruption is everywhere but not so "in your face" as exists in most of Africa,MOST other countries adopt a more "underground" method,corruption is not good at all but exists everywhere,you cannot stop it by any means that I know, where there is money to be had SOME people will use whatever means they can to get it.

Good sensible post Thanks.

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk



USA
3356 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  15:55:02  Show Profile  Visit turk's Homepage Send turk a Private Message
quote:
True but that was 300 years or so ago,there has been little development in Africa (South Africa is a possible exception ) since,take India,Parkastan, your own Turkey for example,all have been the subject of colonisation or dispotic rule in the past look at their development now.


Correction. It was not 300 years ago. Africa has been colonized full until just after second world war. Most African nations became fully independent mostly not long ago in 1900s. South Africa was not really colonized the way other African countries were colonized. There were Europeans ruling South Africa, while they are living there. Pakistan is not much different from Africa. India is not comparable to Africa. India has been colonized but it was united state unlike Africa. Ethnic and tribal issues, violence were not as bad as Africa as African division was very unnatural, borders were not natural. So Africa has faced the worst human tragedy in the world after Native Americans in terms of foreign colonization.

Yes, now they are not colonized, but the impact of their colonization is too deep and great, it would take another 100 years to recover.

Turkey has never been colonized by a other Europeans. In fact, Ottoman had been a colonial power herself.

diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.

Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices.

Edited by - turk on 18 Jul 2011 15:59:25
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toubab1020



12312 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  17:57:46  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
Correction. It was not 300 years ago. Africa has been colonized full until just after second world war. Most African nations became fully independent mostly not long ago in 1900s.(by EUROPEANS true.)

BUT please note "or dispotic rule in the past look at their development now." ( Ottoman Empire ?)

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.

Edited by - toubab1020 on 18 Jul 2011 18:00:18
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toubab1020



12312 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  18:07:12  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message

H.E.s observation on some of his own people in development issues.

http://observer.gm/africa/gambia/article/youths-inactive-role-in-development-security-issues-top-agenda

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk



USA
3356 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  18:22:27  Show Profile  Visit turk's Homepage Send turk a Private Message
Ottoman Empire was despotic? Ottoman Empire has never been more despotic than any other nation in the past. I hope you are not comparing ottoman empire versus today's democracies.

Turkey has more advantages than Gambia. Also, despotic rule is not necessary an obstacle for development. Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Korea, South Africa, Chile were despotic but they developed well.

diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.

Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices.
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Karamba



United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  19:40:18  Show Profile Send Karamba a Private Message
Turkey's financial crisis is no secret. What is all this big mouthed talk about, Turkie. When you mention about Gambia being disadvantaged million times, Turk, you depict a very crude scene.

Where in this wide world does anyone know without general and specific problems. Yet in the biased perception of Turk, Gambians have to sit in chains and lament about naturally imposed hardship.

The simple truth is that even in that poor Gambia, a filthy rich man who exploits the nation through political incorrection, he can afford sending his wife and children for American holidays.

Pure corruption. That's what it is. Anything else, LAW OF UNEVEN DISTRIBUTION.

One crippling claim that with removal of Jammeh Gambia will still not advance is shameful arrogance and typically bitter assault on Gambian decency.

How you jump about with figures like 100 years before Gambia advances tells the whole story. You have a typical biased perception of Gambia, not just black Africa.

Karamba

Edited by - Karamba on 18 Jul 2011 19:58:31
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turk



USA
3356 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  20:34:48  Show Profile  Visit turk's Homepage Send turk a Private Message
Karamba

You are very ignorant. And you are talking non-sense and things you have no information. Turkey has the second highest GDP growth in the world after China. They are the 15th largest economy in the world, 5th largest in EU, after UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain. They are negotiating for EU entry. They are the largest army after USA in Nato. And you are confused the financial crisis with Greece.

You deny everything. You deny your failure. Now, you deny the realities of Gambia. Gambia is poor, and I said Turkey is developed. Is that offend you? This is a fact.

Yes, Gambia is disadvantaged. Prove me I am wrong. Give me argument, statistics, wisdom. You can't because you don't have any idea. My analysis is not biased. It is based on social, economic and historical knowledge. If it is biased, i dare you to challenge my opinion with an argument. Don't just say, no. Prove otherwise.

What is my perception biased. This is the reality. Prove me I am wrong. Prove me, give example, how Gambia will catch the developed nations in a short time. I dare you to do that. I am not biased, all my opinion have valid bases.

diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.

Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices.
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toubab1020



12312 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  20:58:38  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
Turk,
"Also, despotic rule is not necessary an obstacle for development. Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Korea, South Africa, Chile were despotic but they developed well."

You will agree that I mentioned S Africa as developing ,the other countries you mentioned suffered from despotic rule in some form as did the UK in times past before we developed our present (yes sometimes flawed ) system of democracy,( and yes we did take goods from colonies in way of raw materials and worked them and resold them at a profit, invented the steam engine and all the rest of the stufF,were are the other African nations that have showed signs of development in your list,the empire of Mali which I understand was vast,did they at one time have colonies, I am not researching into African Empires of the past but I have been told that there were many, what happened to the development when they had their empires?
I know very little about African history, most of which I gleaned from bantaba in cyberspace, you realise that we could go on to and fro with this topic for ages just like the differences that are discussed between the various opposition factions here, never ending circle.I think that the time has come to admit that Africa in general has got a long way to go you say 100 years,I think possibly more.
I started this topic and posted TWICE, interest in the future of Africa starving was there ? NO ,possibly have a read of the topic linked below and see what you make of this topic I expect that you already have, and offered no opinion:

http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11153

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.

Edited by - toubab1020 on 18 Jul 2011 21:03:18
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turk



USA
3356 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  21:17:55  Show Profile  Visit turk's Homepage Send turk a Private Message
Yes, South Africa was little bid different from the other colonies, as there were European settlers living there. UK is the country most benefited from colonization but the wealth is also reflected on all Europe. For example, Germany was not a colonial nation but, the wealth spread to West Europe so much, the most continent got rich.

Mali Empire was not a typical colonial state like Europe. Their expansion was limited to West Africa, and especially Mauritania to Guinea, they did not have significant natural resources. So, Mali Empire can't be comparable to Europe. Mali empire was very regional. Someone should correct me if I am wrong. Mali area was big but most of the area is dessert, so not overwhelming economic value. Most African Empires was regional, unlike European colonial power they did not colonized other races/continents. And they were empire long ago. When colonization started in Africa, it was harsh. Especially impact of slavery/colonization combined has too much impact that they are still recovering. That is very unfortunate and black mark in the history of humanity.

I don't know if more than 100 years or less. If less how long. 70 years, 40 years. It is still generations. It is an illusion that when Jammeh is gone, things will change quickly and Gambia will became Swiss. That is a reality. I don't know why this offends people but that is the situation.

Let me read your topic and comment.

diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.

Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices.
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Karamba



United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  21:21:45  Show Profile Send Karamba a Private Message
Turkey Financial Crisis

http://www.oecdobserver.org/news/fullstory.php/aid/435.html


International Finance Capital is in no lesser trouble times. Turkey is not immune to any shocks:

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-216376-global-economic-crisis-transforms-turkeys-socioeconomic-fabric.html


Turk, you are toooooo uncivil

Karamba

Edited by - Karamba on 18 Jul 2011 21:28:29
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turk



USA
3356 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  22:15:26  Show Profile  Visit turk's Homepage Send turk a Private Message
Karamba

First of all, financial crisis like Turkey had, or Swiss, Japan, USA, UK is no indicator and valid base to compare the economies of the developed (Japan), developing (Turkey) and under developed (Gambia) economies. Which country does not have any financial problem. And most import, I don't know what to say but first, the article you post is about 10 years old.

President Ahmet Necdet Sezer is former president who was retired 2007.
and Prime Minister Bulent Ecevit has been death for years. He does not even exist for last 5 years.

quote:
Turkey's crisis
Turkey plunged back into financial crisis less than halfway through a three-year programme to end decades of high
inflation. What went wrong, and where should the government go from here?
Alexandra Bibbee
Economics Department
Published: May 2001
Another exchange rate-based stabilisation has been tried and failed in Turkey. Just 14 months into a three-year programme to end
decades of high inflation, the government was forced in February to abandon the currency peg that had been the anchor of its strategy,
sparking an immediate devaluation of its currency, the lira, by around 30%. The programme had started out with unprecedented political
backing, achieved impressive initial results and was widely believed to have a far better chance of success than many previous
internationally supported programmes for Turkey. So what went wrong?
In retrospect, a weak banking system and an over-reliance on inflows of hot money made the country highly vulnerable to crises of
confidence, so that when the inevitable tensions of a rapid adjustment emerged, the currency peg could not hold. The devaluation shock
will delay the achievement of single-digit inflation, and with a simultaneous interest rate shock, implies large bank balance sheet losses
and severe fiscal stress.
The authorities now have no choice but to try to limit the damage with judicious macro-economic policies, find a solution for banking
system problems, and re-establish market confidence by continued implementation of the structural reform and privatisation
programmes.
But the main challenge will be to contain the domestic fallout from the collapse of monetary credibility and to ensure that the adjustment
process is equitable. As has been the case elsewhere, the push to join the European Union could perhaps serve as a focal point for new
social cohesion and a renewed political commitment to reform.
The tensions that culminated in a crisis in late November 2000 were deeply rooted in Turkey’s economic system, but the immediate
cause was a combination of portfolio losses and liquidity problems in a few banks, which sparked a loss of confidence in the entire
banking system. When the central bank decided to inject massive liquidity into the system in violation of its own quasi-currency board
rules, it created fears that the programme and currency peg were no longer sustainable, and the extra liquidity merely flowed out via the
capital account and drained reserves. The panic was arrested only with a $7.5 billion IMF emergency funding package (over and above
an original $4 billion stand-by loan). The government then reaffirmed its commitment to the previous inflation targets, pledged to speed
up privatisation and banking reforms, took over a major bank that had been at the origin of the liquidity problems, and announced a
guarantee of all bank liabilities.
The situation seemed to stabilise in early 2001, as virtually all of the $6 billion in capital that had exited in the crisis flowed back and
reserves were reconstituted. However, investors were demanding much higher interest rates than before, indicating an upward shift in
the country risk premium. Also, virtually all of the new capital inflow was on a very short-term (overnight) basis, suggesting residual
devaluation fears. Confidence in the programme was not really restored, despite government pronouncements and the support of the
IMF.
In such an atmosphere, a public row on February 19 between President Ahmet Necdet Sezer and Prime Minister Bulent Ecevit
(apparently centred on the former’s anti-corruption campaign) immediately translated into the perception that the ruling coalition, and
hence the programme, could be unravelling. Renewed crisis followed. However, this time around the central bank stuck to the
quasi-currency board rules and refused to act as lender of last resort, hoping that banks would turn in their dollars in order to obtain lira.
The result was record overnight interest rates, which peaked at close to 5000% on February 21. The banking system, already greatly
weakened by the first crisis, faced breakdown as the interbank payments system ceased to function altogether. The next day the
government decided to float the lira, spelling the end of the exchange rate-based stabilisation programme.
Under the circumstances, floating the currency was probably the only solution available. The market confidence that would have been
required to sustain the crawling peg strategy was not present.
Acknowledging this fact sooner rather than later has at least allowed the government to enter the floating regime with most of its
reserves intact, rather than finding them depleted in a vain attempt to defend the peg. The authorities have had to start anew to design a
programme in light of the new currency framework.
Whatever the strength of the new strategy, they will face higher costs and greater risks because of the credibility that has been lost. The
major risk is prolonged weakness of the currency coupled with a high country risk premium due to an inability to re-establish confidence
quickly. If the risk materialises it would be unequivocally negative for Turkey. It would imply large terms of trade and real income losses
for consumers, real balance sheet losses in the bank and corporate sectors, a growing public debt as such losses are nationalised, and
a renewed debt-deficit spiral due to growing interest costs on the public debt.
In such an environment, rising political and social tensions could weaken the will to reform. Also, the temporary inflation spike following
the currency devaluation could easily become entrenched via renewed inflation-linked wage rises, especially if the fiscal situation were
perceived to be out of control. The task of the authorities will be to avoid such a scenario – essentially a repeat of the 1994 crisis – at all
OECD Observer: Turkey's crisis http://www.oecdobserver.org/news/printpage.php/aid/435/Turkey's_crisis...
2 of 2 4/4/2007 10:20 AM
costs. There is little room for policy mistakes.
Once the dust has settled and a more stable market rate for the lira has been established, the monetary authorities will need to identify a
feasible disinflation path and gear monetary policy to achieving it, implying a shift to a tighter stance. But this poses an acute dilemma,
as banks are likely to need low interest rates and ample liquidity before they can be returned to health. Resolving this problem will
require strict adherence to privatisation goals and the structural reform programme, notably in the banking and state enterprise sectors,
which would help to drive down the country risk premium and eventually attract more stable forms of foreign finance such as direct
investment. Fiscal discipline must be imposed, in particular by exercising tight control over public spending.
A major challenge will be to rebuild a social consensus for adjustment given that so much hard-won monetary credibility has been
squandered. Depositors, banks and businesses can claim with some justification that they are suffering precisely because they put so
much faith in the programme. An equitable income policy must be worked out with the social partners, but this was never fully accepted
even when the programme was credible. It will thus be hard to ask for further sacrifices, such as further real wage cuts due to
devaluation or more lay-offs due to structural reforms.
However, without some kind of social pact, it might be very difficult to find a new anchor for inflation. The drive to join the EU might serve
as a catalyst for rallying public sentiment to the cause of reform. The need for economic stabilisation and institutional modernisation is
inherent in the quest for convergence toward Europe, and remains essential for finding a solution to Turkey’s problems.
REFERENCES
• OECD Economic Surveys: Turkey 2000/2001.



This is when you embarrass when you have no clue about what you are talking about.

And the second article you find in google search, actually has a lots of positives about Turkish economy. Like I said, you don't post on the topics you are very ignorant. You are just doing fine with bashing on your obsession Jammeh. Keep doing what you are doing.





diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.

Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices.

Edited by - turk on 19 Jul 2011 03:00:03
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Moe



USA
2326 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  22:33:15  Show Profile Send Moe a Private Message
Karamba, is not the smartest cookie out of the lot so you just have to forgive his stupidity, and ignorance at most times Turk " The Bantaba Clown" is not a cheap Title. Title grabbing fool..........................Peace

I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction

The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know .....
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