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Momodou
Denmark
11635 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 15:43:46
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GAMBIA-L Digest 91
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Hi To Everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by KABBA@aol.com
2) Who We Are and Why
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
3) Re: education support
by Gunjur@aol.com
4) New member
by SANG1220@aol.com
5) Re: Dusty Sukuru-kunda
by Gunjur@aol.com
6) Re: These terrible WHITE people
by Gunjur@aol.com
7) Who We Are and Why
by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com>
8) Re: These terrible WHITE people
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
9) Re: FELCHERS
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
10) Re: These terrible WHITE people
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
11) Court orders wife to stop bullying husband
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
12) casa/religion/ethnicity --- PART I
by Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
13) Re: FELCHERS
by Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
14) Re: These terrible WHITE people
by Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
15) Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Scotland
by S Njie <S.Njie@commonwealth.int>
16) Re: casa/religion/ethnicity --- PART I
by Sainey Keita <S.Keita@reading.ac.uk>
17) RE: THESE TERRIBLE WHITE PEOPLE
by Amadou Kabir Njie <Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no>
18) CORRECTION : RE: THESE TERRIBLE WHITE PEOPLE
by Amadou Kabir Njie <Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no>
19) Court orders wife to stop bullying husband
by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com>
20) RE : FELCHERS
by Amadou Kabir Njie <Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no>
21) FELCHERS
by Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
22) Re: FELCHERS
by Sainey Keita <S.Keita@reading.ac.uk>
23) FELCHING.
by Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
24) Re: casa/religion/ethnicity --- PART I
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
25)
by "B.M.Jones" <B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk>
26) Sud FM
by "Latir Downes-Thomas" <latir@earthlink.net>
27) Re: FELCHERS
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
28) Air Mali - Sissoko
by "Latir Downes-Thomas" <latir@earthlink.net>
29) new member
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
30) Re: FELCHERS
by Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
31) Re: FELCHERS
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
32) Re: Court orders wife to stop bullying husband
by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
33) These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
34) Jawara/Casamance
by Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
35) Re: Black Inventors
by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
36) Re: Black Inventors
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
37) Re: FELCHING.
by MJawara@aol.com
38) The military.
by Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
39) Re: CORRECTION : RE: THESE TERRIBLE WHITE PEOPLE
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
40) Re: These terrible WHITE people
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
41) Re: These terrible WHITE people
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
42) Re: These terrible "WHITE" people
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
43) Abdou Gibba
by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com>
44) Re: new member
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
45) Re: education support
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
46) Re: Dusty Sukuru-kunda
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
47) Re: fwd: GAMBIA--GOVERNMENT CENSORS OPPOSITION TO FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
48) Re: New member
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
49) Re: FELCHERS
by Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
50) List Commands
by Abdou Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
51) Re: These terrible WHITE people
by "Latir Downes-Thomas" <latir@earthlink.net>
52) Re: FELCHING.
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
53) Obsessed with Jawara
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
54) Felchers
by SANG1220@aol.com
55) Re: Felchers
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
56) twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
57) Re: FELCHERS
by "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C7=C8=E6_=DA=C8=CF=C7=E1=E1=E5?=" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
58) Re: Black Inventors
by mmjeng@image.dk
59) Re: Black Inventors
by mmjeng@image.dk
60) Re: Black Inventors
by Sainey Keita <S.Keita@reading.ac.uk>
61) Jawara.
by Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
62) Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
63) FELCHED.
by Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
64) Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
by Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
65) (Fwd) C'Wealth Heads og Govt meeting On-Line
by S Njie <S.Njie@commonwealth.int>
66) (Fwd) C'Wealth Heads of Govt meeting On-Line
by S Njie <S.Njie@commonwealth.int>
67) Re: These terrible WHITE people (fwd)
by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
68) Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
69) Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
70) New member
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
71) FW: Cancer Patient
by Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com>
72) Re: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives
by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
73) Fwd: Black Inventors
by MJagana@aol.com
74) Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
75) New Member
by Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu>
76) "Give A Book" : just an idea
by Ebrima Sall <ebrima.sall@yale.edu>
77) Re: New Member
by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
78) commendations>>>>>>
by "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com>
79) Re: New Member
by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
80) Re: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
81) Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
82) Re: "Give A Book" : just an idea
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
83) Re: FELCHERS
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
84) Re: These terrible WHITE people
by Gunjur@aol.com
85) Re: Dusty Sukuru-kunda
by Gunjur@aol.com
86) Bush List
by Ousman Gajigo <gajigoo@wabash.edu>
87) Re: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives
by Gunjur@aol.com
88) Trivia Question:
by TOURAY1@aol.com
89) Re: Bush List
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
90) Re: Jawara.
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
91) Re: FELCHED.
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
92) Re: Fwd: Black Inventors
by Sainey Keita <S.Keita@reading.ac.uk>
93) Africarib: Mandela attacks 'arrogance' of US
by "JOHN OKYERE" <PLXJO@pln2.life.nottingham.ac.uk>
94) Re: FELCHERS
by SAMBA NJIE <snjie@gis.net>
95) CHOGM WEBSITE ADDRESS
by S Njie <S.Njie@commonwealth.int>
96) RE : TRIVIA QUESTION
by Amadou Kabir Njie <Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no>
97) CORRECTION - RE . TRIVIA QUESTION
by Amadou Kabir Njie <Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no>
98) Re: Fwd: Black Inventors
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
99) Re: Cancer Patient
by "jgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
100) Re: These terrible WHITE people (fwd)
by "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com>
101) Casamance.
by Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
102) Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
103) Re: FELCHING./ or ??? getting out of hand
by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
104) THIS IS SHEER DISRESPECT TO US ALL
by Amadou Kabir Njie <Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no>
105) NO ROOM FOR INSULTS
by "B.M.Jones" <B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk>
106) Re: FELCHING./ or ??? getting out of hand
by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
107) For Laughs.....
by "astrid christensen-tasong" <attatas@hotmail.com>
108) Re: NO ROOM FOR INSULTS
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
109) Re: Casamance.
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
110) My appologies.
by Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
111) Re: My appologies.
by "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu>
112) Re: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives (fwd)
by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
113) Re: "Give A Book" : just an idea
by Ebrima Sall <ebrima.sall@yale.edu>
114) My Perspective..
by lamin marenah <keita@rocketmail.com>
115) RE: My perspective.
by Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
116) Re: casa/religion/ethnicity --- PART I
by Ebrima Sall <ebrima.sall@yale.edu>
117) Re: casa/religion/ethnicity --- PART I
by Hous@aol.com
118) INFO:
by SANG1220@aol.com
119) Re: Casamance.
by BAKSAWA@aol.com
120) Re: NO ROOM FOR INSULTS
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
121) Re: My Perspective..
by Abdou Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
122) Re: NO ROOM FOR INSULTS
by MJawara@aol.com
123) Welcome New Members
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
124) Re: Casamance.
by "Kaira Isatou Boubacar" <kaiisa@hs.nki.no>
125) Re: NO ROOM FOR INSULTS
by Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
126) Re: THIS IS SHEER DISRESPECT TO US ALL
by Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
127) BACK TO BUSINESS
by Olafiaklinikken Olafia <olafia@online.no>
128) upgrading...
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
129) SV: casa/religion/ethnicity
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
130) Internet in the gambia
by "wendela@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
131) please delist.
by "Alhagi Marong" <marong_a@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>
132) Fwd: E-mail Warning -Forwarded
by "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com>
133) Re: THIS IS SHEER DISRESPECT TO US ALL
by MJagana@aol.com
134) WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!!
by "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com>
135) Re: WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!!
by "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com>
136) Re: WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!!
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
137) Re: E-mail Warning -Forwarded
by "jgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
138) TRIVIA QUESTION
by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com>
139) email warning
by "astrid christensen-tasong" <attatas@hotmail.com>
140) Yusupha Jatt "Payus"
by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com>
141)
by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
142) New member
by Famara Saidykhan IBS96 <fsaidykh@vkol.pspt.fi>
143) Thanx for your consideration!
by "Famara A. Sanyang" <famaraas@amadeus.cmi.no>
144) Fwd: CFP: Censorship: An International Encyclopedia
by "Jobst Münderlein" <joppl@hotmail.com>
145) Re: New member
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
146) Re: Internet in the gambia
by "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com>
147) Re: email warning
by "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com>
148) demonstration at Gambian embassy
by MSarr27100@aol.com
149) Re: "Give A Book" : just an idea
by Gunjur@aol.com
150) Re: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives (fwd)
by Gunjur@aol.com
151) Re: Internet in the gambia
by Francis Njie <c3p0@xsite.net>
152) Re: "Give A Book" : just an idea
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
153) SV: commendations>>>>>>
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
154) "Give a Book" Just an Idea
by "B.M.Jones" <B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk>
155) Re: SV: commendations>>>>>>
by Gunjur@aol.com
156) "give a book" just an idea
by Gunjur@aol.com
157) New Member!
by Mamadou S Jallow <bala@algonet.se>
158) Gambia homepage
by Abdou Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 03:02:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: KABBA@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: KABBA@aol.com
Subject: Hi To Everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <971019030204_1868649054@emout19.mail.aol.com>
Hi Guys,
It is a pleasure to be welcomed to the " Bantaba." My name is Sulayman Bajo.
I am currently residing in America. I am going to a university, majoring in
finance and management information system. I really love this idea of Gambian
corresponding to one another and expressing their points. So let's take it
seriously and find some solutions to the problems facing Gambians all over
the world.
I don't think we should waste our time and effort criticing each other's
actions, but rather share ideas on how to build a better Gambia for the
future. However, don't quote me wrong; we have the right to voice-out our
opinions about the government because without those criticisms we will not
have a better government. Let us all remember that we are all going through a
healing process of the changes that occured in the country, so let's heal
together in harmony for a better tomorrow.
Peace to you all !!!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 17:55:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Who We Are and Why
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971019174636.7228B-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Greetings:
I thought I should share the ff excerpt from Ayi Kwei Armah's
book: OSIRIS RISING. I hope it will help keep our spirits high
depite the many problems we as Africans are facing, such as:
the casamance crisis, civil strife in the congos, sierra leone,
liberia, ...
LatJor
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Who We Are and Why
In a people's rise from oppression to grace, a turning point
comes when thinkers determined to stop the downward slide
get together to study the causes of common problems, think
out common solutions and organize ways to apply them.
For centuries now our history in Africa has been an
avalanche of problems. We've staggered from disaster to
catastrophe, enduring the destruction of Kemt, the
scattering of millions ranging the continent in search of
refuge, the waste of humanity in the slave trade organized
by Arabs, Europeans and myopic, crumb-hungry Africans
ready to destroy this land for their unthinking profit. We
have endured the plunder of a land now carved up into fifty
*****ic neocolonial states in this age when large nations
seek survival in larger federal unions, and even fools know
that fission is death.
It may look as if all we ever did was to endure this history
of ruin, taking no steps to end the negative slide and begin
the positive turn. That impression is false. Over these
disastrous millenia there have been Africans concerned to
work out solutions to our problems and to act on them. The
traces these makers left are faint, because in the continuing
triumph of Africa's destroyers the beautyful ones were
murdered, the land poisoned. Now whereever future seed seeks
to take root it strikes sand.
Still, even in defeat the creative ones left vital signs.
They left traces of a moral mindpath visible to this day,
provided we learn again to read pointers to lost ways. Then,
connected with past time and future space through knowledge
recovered, thinking Africans seeking one another in this
common cause will meet the best of humanity for the work
ahead: ending the past and current rule of slavers.
We are not after the slave-foreman power that, under the
killers' continuing rule, is blind ambition's hollow prize.
We are after the intelligent understanding of all our realities.
For we intend, as Africans, to retrieve our human face, our
human heart, the human mind our ancestors taught to soar.
That is who we are, and why.
Excerpt from: OSIRIS RISING
by Ayi Kwei Armah
Published by Per Ankh, Senegal
(Folks get this book!)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 17:56:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: education support
Message-ID: <971019175537_2034702318@emout02.mail.aol.com>
l think that Latjor's idea of forming alumnus groups to lend financial
support for education etc is a great idea. What it does is give us a starting
point. l think that everyone on the education comittee will agree that after
the initial correspondence and compilation of the answers from the
questionaire, we are really at a loss for where and how exactly to start.
This will be a manageable begining from which we can launch more cooperative
ventures .
Jabou Joh.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:11:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: SANG1220@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: SANG1220@aol.com
Subject: New member
Message-ID: <971019181052_627584027@emout09.mail.aol.com>
Latjor, would you add phillip sowe to the bantaba, his address is
ardopadel@aol.com
Thanks
Daddy Sang
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:57:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Dusty Sukuru-kunda
Message-ID: <971019185315_714207236@emout09.mail.aol.com>
Dear Bass,
For the life of me, l do not know how you came to arrive at the conclusion
that l am of the view that only Islam should be practiced in the Gambia. It
reminds me of the game where you start a rumour and watch what it becomes by
the time it gets back to you, a completely different thing from the initial
statement. How does my pointing out misinfromation about Islam as put forth
by others suddenly mean that l am advocating that everyone should be s
Muslim? l think if you are as knowledgeable about the religion as you propose
to be, then you must surely know that it advocates leaving everyone to their
choices. Furthermore, even the prophet Muhammad had treaties with some of the
pagans during his time. This religion advocate treating everyone with
courtesy and respect, and that Allah, not us , is the final judge. Those who
do not know this , or take heed of this fact,constitute the negative element
that is giving Islam a bad name today.
Go back to all the postings of the previous discussions and see if you will
find anywhere l condoned Mr. Bojang's threats against the Ahmadiyyas, or
advocated that Islam should be practiced by one and all. l think that perhaps
time has dimmed your memories of my exact statements on this issue. lf l am
ever minister of whatever my friend, l will impart my responsibilities to ALL
Gambians and my fellow human beings with the caring, respect, consideration
and fairness that being raised a Muslim and a Gambian has imparted on me. And
that outlook, leaves no room for totalitarianism of any sort, thank you.
Jabou Joh.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:00:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: These terrible WHITE people
Message-ID: <971019195810_2101480742@emout13.mail.aol.com>
Torstein,
l empathize with you. l really do not think that the locals call you white to
be mean.Rather, your white complexion is an exception to the norm there and
is thus used to identify you. Small consolation, but l really think that is
all there is to it.
Don't let it bother you. As Bass would say, keep up the good work down there.
Regards,
Jabou.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:08:10 -0700
From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Who We Are and Why
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971019230810.006888b4@mail.interlog.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Gabriel,
That was indeed thoughtful of you. The excerpt that you posted is avery
nice and meaningful one. "For centuries now our history in Africa has been
an avalanche of problems. We've staggered from disaster to catastrophe,
enduring the destruction of kemt, the scattering of millions... in search
of refuge, the waste of humanity in the slave trade organized by Arabs,
Europeans and myopic, crum-hungry Africans ready to destroy this land for
their unthinking profit" (Ayi Kwei Armah).
The above quotation is heavily loaded in terms of historical meaning and
symbolism, yet it is relevant in today's Africa, from Cape Town to Cairo.
It is tragic that we have not learned our historical lessons very well.
After the horrible history that trails behind us, agency is still strong
within the political, economic, and social establishments of Africa.
It is time to break the cycle and firmly resist the unsrupulous Africans
who profit at the expense of the helpless.
Enough is enough, no more.
Paul
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 22:14:54 -0100
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These terrible WHITE people
Message-ID: <B0000011428@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit
Dear Mr. Ndow.
> From: Gabriel Ndow
> Skin color is not a gambian/african/black hang-up, it is a
> toubabo hang-up. Who's been catching hell for the melanin
> content of their skin???
>
> LatJor
If you define hang-up as a person or group that takes strong interest
and puts emphasis on something(i.e. skin-color), I would boldly disagree
with you.
As I wrote, the word "WHITE", "toubab" etc. is a daily nuciance to me
almost wherever I go in The Gambia.
What I do agree with you, is that the "white/western man's" attention on color
was and is (much) more negative than the other way.
I believe in anybody fighting against such attitudes, but I am personally
a little afraid that if we get a polarization of color we will end up on each side
of a fence.
And I hate fences...
Sincerely
Torstein
The Gambia
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 22:34:20 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: FELCHERS
Message-ID: <19971020053427.21532.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Ebrima,
As a "new kid on the block", you should learn to crawl before going for
the 100m dash. BTW, do you believe the following statement:
"A course may be laudable, but the blatant and indiscriminate support of
that course renders it useless". If you do, you need to ponder,
son!!!!(no pun intended..)
First, you said 6.5m tonnes of heroin(what a ridiculous figure!!!), then
moments later you reduced the number a million-fold; the heroin became
cannabis (via Latir's assist); claimed to be an agent of that
Mal-administrator called David/Dawda...not sure which one he goes by
these days. So you were just kidding about being an agent???
Just what of your "facts" do you want me to believe....try to get them
straight when next you post a message.
Jainaba.
PS: The chances of agreeing to you taking me out is as good as Sir
David/Dawda re-installed as the Emperor of the former Kingdom of the
Gambia.
>Jainaba,
>
>You guessed right, I am agent of the former President Sir Dawda. My NSS
>number was J1A2W3A4R5A6. Alas I am wanted by Mr. Harry Sambou (Deputy
>Director of NIA), who incidentally happens to be studying at a
university
>in Scotland. It is my mission to restore the former president Jawara.
>
>Who are these enquiring minds you speak of? Are you part of some secret
>bantaba? Did these people send you e-mail or call or fax to ask you if
I
>was related to the former president. Like Latir said, it does not
really
>matter, so I will not answer that.
>
>Latir has made everything clear I hope. As it turns out, I made a
mistake
>by saying heroin instead of Cannabis. Operation green money, was like
>Latir said, an attempt to produce $10m worth of counterfeit bills,
>according to Capt (rtd) Ebou Jallow.
>
>
>Let us be objective.
>
>Ebs Jawara.
>
>PS I must say however that you are full of passion and fire. I would
>dearly love to take you out sometime.
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 01:42:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These terrible WHITE people
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971020012712.8447B-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Torstein:
My remarks were geared towards your remarks pertaining to
our bantaba - gambia-l. Your referring to some as "hardliners!?"
was what I was responding to. Your daily personal encounters
in gambia was and is not something I would focus on.
The 'hang-up' I mentioned was in the context of the racial
system in which 'Whites, toubabs' in the
past and present continue to subjugate and exploit peoples whose
skin coloration is heavily melanated. If we were to take a
journey back in time to say 6000 b.c.e. when there was little
contact between the races, you will discover that there were
no racial systems in place. The 'hang-up' on race came after
the the domination of Black people from Indus-Kush to Mandeland,
by toubabos. (By the way, the word 'toubab' was first used in
reference to the Arabs during the days of the mali empire.)
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:13:40 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Court orders wife to stop bullying husband
Message-ID: <19971020061340.18066.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Amigos,
Ha ha ha ha.......oh ha ha ha!!!!!...this ain't funny at all!!
I hope gambia-l sistas don't do likewise to their loved ones, did I hear
Amen???
Adios,
Jainaba.
*********************************************************************
> HARARE, Oct 19 (AFP) - A Zimbabwean man won a restraining order
>against his wife after telling a court she frequently beat him up
>and poured cold water over him while he was sleeping, a newspaper
>reported Sunday.
> Describing his wife as "huge in size" he said she also "pulled
>my private parts" and frog-marched him around in front of his
>friends.
> The man, who was not named by the newspaper, fled their home but
>was followed by his wife who took away the small bus with which he
>earned his living.
> The court ordered the wife to keep the peace and return her
>husband's bus.
>-=-=-
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 03:13:54 -0500
From: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: casa/religion/ethnicity --- PART I
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971020035504.0e77cd06@etbu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Masters Latjor and Ebrima Sall,
Allow me to disagree. In opposition to your view that "military
option" is not the way the Senegalese govt should take, i, on the other hand
believe that the Senegalese govt MUST use whatever means necessary to
maintain the cohesive republic of Senegal, which invariably includes
Casamance. Casamance should not be given the feeling that they can or should
obtain some kind of autonomy from Senegal. To those who ask why, i take them
in retrospect to certain historical events that bear a similar corelation to
the Casamance issue.
1. THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR ---- When some of the southern states decided to
secede from the American UNION, the northern states held their ground in the
view that the southern declaration was tantamount to treason. The ensuing
war resulted in more American lives lost than in either World War 1 or WW2.
Obviously this was a tremendous loss, but did the war pay off? I answer
emphatically in the positive, YES! Not only did the result of the war in
favor of the UNION brought about a cohesive America whose leverage is
greater than any other nation on earth today, the war also brought about the
end of slavery in America. So should Senegal tough-it-out if it has to?
ABSOLUTELY!
2. AFRICAN CRISIS ( ANGOLA, SUDAN, MOROCCO, NIGERIA ) ---- All of these
countries have one thing in common. They have either endured or are enduring
an uprising brought about by a people from one part of the country wanting
autonomy from the rest of the country, a-la Casamance syndrome. With the
exception of Sudan where the war was brought about by former president
NUMEIRI wanting to desecularize the country in favor of an Islamic state,
the Biafran war in Nigeria, the Angola/UNITA war, and the Morocco/Polisario
war are all reminders that to yield in to pressure from secessionists would
be a grave mistake on the part of the Senegalese govt. The unity of Senegal
MUST be maintained without any form of autonomy given to Casamance, if
Senegal is to remain a viable nation.
3. THE MIDDLE EAST ( KUWAIT, IRAQ ) ---- When the demarcations of the
national borders of Kuwait were
redrawn after WW2 by England's Winston Churchill, that area of Iraq that was
accorded to Kuwait by the new boundaries was part of the causative agents
that led to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990, and the subsequent Desert
Storm war of 1991. Also, the current creation of an AUTONOMOUS Turkish state
in southern Iraq beyond the 36th Parallel is clear indication of why Senegal
MUST NOT give Casamance any form of autonomy. For one thing, if and when the
U.N. sanctions are lifted, Iraq would have to go back to war against its
Turkish citizenry to bring them back under the umbrella of a unified Iraq.
This would inevitably be at the expense of some human lives, all caused by
the EVILS or should i say COWARDICE of creating or granting autonomy to a
rebellious section of the country. Beware, Senegal!!!
------------------- MORAL LESSONS -----------------------------------
Africa and Africans MUST learn from history. We have been the
subjects of the "divide and rule" ideology for centuries. It is about time
we realize that the maxim "united we stand, divided we fall" is true and
ominous even in the literal context. From the examples that i have cited,
nowhere has the attempt to divide the country worked or helped the economy
of the respective countries. Would Casamance be different? I DON'T think so.
I just hope that the rebel leadership in Casamance would soon wake up to
this reality.
Sorry about the long reply fellows. Check out my suggested SOLUTION
to the Casamance debacle in PART II. Thanx for your time and good luck to
everybody.
It's Tamsir.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:20:16 +0100
From: Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: FELCHERS
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971020102016.0070535c@golf.uib.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jainaba wrote:
>First, you said 6.5m tonnes of heroin(what a ridiculous figure!!!), then
>moments later you reduced the number a million-fold; the heroin became
>cannabis (via Latir's assist); claimed to be an agent of that
>Mal-administrator called David/Dawda...not sure which one he goes by
>these days. So you were just kidding about being an agent???
Jainaba!
No he was not, take him seriously... he can do what ever to return the
Knight and right hand friend of H I M the Queen of England - SIR DAWDA in
power. And I don't think we will disregard the fact that he is related or
not related to Alhagi Sir Dawda Kairaba Jawara for there exist no
objectivity in this particular case. Of all... hear who's talking... "Tatt
an gi ngenj ngemba dohot" (the pot calling the kettle black).
Abdou Oujimai
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:08:35 +0100
From: Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
To: gambia-l <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These terrible WHITE people
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971020110835.0071a258@golf.uib.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 19:38 17/10/97 -0100, you wrote:
>Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
> via Commit
>
>
>Hello Mr.Gibba.
>
>You wrote:
>> NOW, DO YOU HAVE A SOLUTION TO THIS
>> INDIVIDUAL, NATIONAL, AND INTERNATIONAL *C*O*L*O*R* PROBLEM WITHOUT A
>> MENTION OF THIS CONCEPT OF *C*O*L*O*R*? ...AM EAGER TO HEAR IT.
>
>Well, what about simply stop putting emphasis on color?
Torstein!
I only hope it was as easy as it sounds. In any case, which "color" is
suppose to take the initial step of "waving the white flag"??? Any other
suggestions???
Regards,
Abdou Oujimai
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:32:37 +0000
From: S Njie <S.Njie@commonwealth.int>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Scotland
Message-ID: <9A71E13001D23A00@commonwealth.int>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-disposition: inline
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
I wish to take the opportunity to inform list members of the
Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting which will be taking
place in Edinburgh, Scotland on 23 and 24 October this year.
A record number of Heads of States including Yaya Jammeh, will meet
in the Scottish Capital for a two day summit. There are 54 Countries
belonging to the Commonwealth and it encompasses one-third of the
worlds population ( some 1.7 billion people ), spanning six continents,
20% of world trade,19% of investment and 14% of the Worlds Gross
Domestice Product ( GDP).The Commonwealth includes some of the
largest countries in the world,including
Canada,India,Pakistan,Malaysia , Australia,South Africa, Kenya and
Britain and some of the
smallest,including Singapore,Brunei,Gambia,Maldives and most of the
Caribbean Islands and the Pacific Micro-States.
Members wishing to know more about the origins and functions of the
Commonwealth can access the following website :
http://www.tcol.co.uk
The ultimate objective of the website Commonwealth Online is to act
as one of the hubs of information realting to the The Commonwealth
and its many organisations and activities.
P.S.
By way of a much belated but in inordinate intro, I was born in Banjul
the Gambia and attended KG, Saints(in the early seventies) and sixth
form at GHS (during the Late Jimmy Ndow/David Summers era). I did
my undergrad at Glasgow University, Scotland and my Masters in
Westminster University,London.I worked at the Establishment
Office,National Investment Board and Gambia Civil Aviation Authority.
I am currently employed as a senior programme staff at the
Commonwealth Secretariat ( functioning like the UN Secretariat ) in
London with regional management responsibility for the
Commonwealth Caribbean and the Mediterranean.I am the only
Gambian national in the 350 staff Secretariat.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:55:13 +0100 (BST)
From: Sainey Keita <S.Keita@reading.ac.uk>
To: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: casa/religion/ethnicity --- PART I
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971020112834.577D-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi Tamsir,
After going through your contribution to Gambia-L I feel I should
congragulate you for your objective analysis of the current issues facing
Africa.
The fact is all economic problems have a political solution and all
political problems have a military solution but using the military option
is not the way forward for Africa. What we should be thinking of now is
how to unite our economies for a better future.
As you rightly said America is strong because she fought against
disintegration, Russia has turned out to be a laughing stock in the eyes
of the west because it has disintegrated and Western Europe is marching
towards a united Europe. So strenght is in unity.
Lastly, I hold the opinion that we should respect the boundaries drawn at
independance further balkanisation would create more problems than
solution.
Thanks,
Sainey.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:40:32 +0200
From: Amadou Kabir Njie <Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no>
To: "'Gambia-L@u.washington.edu'" <Gambia-L@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: THESE TERRIBLE WHITE PEOPLE
Message-ID: <FBF1001D6A18D1118AC100A0C942F230A65B@AVIA-A>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Torstein, you wrote:
If you define hang-up as a person or group that takes strong interest
and puts emphasis on something(i.e. skin-color), I would boldly disagree
with you.
As I wrote, the word "WHITE", "toubab" etc. is a daily nuciance to me
almost wherever I go in The Gambia.
What I do agree with you, is that the "white/western man's" attention on
color
was and is (much) more negative than the other way.
I believe in anybody fighting against such attitudes, but I am
personally
a little afraid that if we get a polarization of color we will end up on
each side
of a fence.
And I hate fences...
Sincerely
Torstein
The Gambia
I say to you if you are sincerely interested in doing away with with
peoples' emphasis on colour then you are talking to the wrong audience!
It's colour that is used by white people - if we just for simplification
purposes agree to call you white, because white you are not - tot judge
other races. When Gambians/Africans focus on colour it is only because
it is exactly colour that has been used over the centuries to alienate
them.
You would not have balcks/Africans live in your neigbhourehood, not sit
beside you in church, not eat in the same restaurants with you, not do
tour women,... The list goes on; and yet you wander why we want to build
our own!
When I talk about colour it is not to be evil towards you, but for me
personally, rather to identify the source of evil! When you used colour
as a creteria to steal from me, and after you have stolen from me and
put me in the situation in which I am today you cannot tell me to just
forget about colour by the wave of a magic wan.
Till this day blacks are attacked physically all over the "Western
world" by dint of our colour. If the victims are lucky they come out of
it alive. The day you are attacked physically in The Gambia/Africa it
will be to be robbed because some poor criminal needs food to eat, not
because of racial hatred.
For me it is no less than sheer hipocrisy to tell black people to forget
colour.
Go tell that to "white" people. Campaign amongst you own to get rid of
the social malaise of RACISM. We blacks are just responding to RACISM!.
A. Kabir Njie.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:08:41 +0200
From: Amadou Kabir Njie <Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no>
To: "'Gambia-L@u.washington.edu'" <Gambia-L@u.washington.edu>
Subject: CORRECTION : RE: THESE TERRIBLE WHITE PEOPLE
Message-ID: <FBF1001D6A18D1118AC100A0C942F230A65C@AVIA-A>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hey there,
Allow me to rectify a couple of typing errors and more in the above
mentioned posting from earlier today.
* In the first paragraph I wrote "......tot judge other races". It
should read:
"....to judge other races.
* in the second paragraph I wrote " ,...not do tour women". It should
read:....not do your women.
A. Kabir Njie
P.S.
And Torstein just for the record I have two daughters by a white woman.
The point...?. Just in case you start thinking "Oh! he hates HATE white
people".
A.K.N.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:47:55 -0700
From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Court orders wife to stop bullying husband
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971020084755.0068c8c8@mail.interlog.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jainaba,
That court case in Zimbabwe is not funny at all. However, it does show
that the sisters can, and are capable of fighting back. Although I don't
know the details of the case, it is likely that the sister involved is not
passive and submissive to her husband.
The take-home message here is that women are not objects to be manipulated
and that marriage is not about two unequal individuals. Despite my
opinion, however, I do not condone violence against either spouse. I
believe in equality and mutual understanding among/between people,
especially when such people call themselves husband and wife.
Paul Gibba
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:31:57 +0200
From: Amadou Kabir Njie <Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no>
To: "'Gambia-L@u.washington.edu'" <Gambia-L@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE : FELCHERS
Message-ID: <FBF1001D6A18D1118AC100A0C942F230A65E@AVIA-A>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Ebrima Jawara, you wrote:
Jainaba,
>
>You guessed right, I am agent of the former President Sir Dawda. My NSS
>number was J1A2W3A4R5A6. Alas I am wanted by Mr. Harry Sambou (Deputy
>Director of NIA), who incidentally happens to be studying at a
university
>in Scotland. It is my mission to restore the former president Jawara.
>
>Who are these enquiring minds you speak of? Are you part of some secret
>bantaba? Did these people send you e-mail or call or fax to ask you if
I
>was related to the former president. Like Latir said, it does not
really
>matter, so I will not answer that.
>
>Latir has made everything clear I hope. As it turns out, I made a
mistake
>by saying heroin instead of Cannabis. Operation green money, was like
>Latir said, an attempt to produce $10m worth of counterfeit bills,
>according to Capt (rtd) Ebou Jallow.
>
>
>Let us be objective.
>
>Ebs Jawara.
>
>PS I must say however that you are full of passion and fire. I would
>dearly love to take you out sometime.
>
>
You started by mixing up, or should I say mixing down, the facts and in
a futile attempt to rectify the the blunder you exacerbated your gaffe
by resorting to to age-old male sexist chauvinism.
The sister seems to be quite articulate and seems to know too how to put
her point of view through without escaping the issue at hand.
That kind of mentality and view of women as objects of sex and redicle
whenever one of them manifests some measure of intellectual acumen is
not tollerated here at the Bantaba. Here all are equal. You are judged
by what you write, not what sex you are.
Give us some plausible arguements backed by facts!
A. Kabir Njie.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:12:01 -0500
From: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: FELCHERS
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971020095311.3fdf0726@etbu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jainaba and others,
Pardon me but i think you are wrong. Parental name-calling is a sign
of a lackluster in diplomacy. From Ebrima's postings, i did not make out any
attack on your parents, and so i conclude that to do so to him is
inappropriate, especially in a forum like this. By the way, i have never
been a fan of the way Jawara ran the govt while he was in office. By the
same token though, i hold a great deal of reverence for the man just because
of the simple fact that he was the primary architect of Gambia's
independence. Without him we would probably still be under the jurisdiction
of Her Royal Highness, Queen Elizabeth II. Guinea Bissau didn't get
independence until 1974. Gambia's plight could have been worse.
While i agree with you that Ebrima Jawara must do a better job in
presenting his facts, i think the dude should be given some credit. He did
rectify himself as soon as he posted the first message. This was before
Latir Downes wrote to affirm the numbers. Since the amount of illicit drug
was correctly stated at 6.5 tonnes, i think the focus should be on those who
attempted to defraud our nation rather than on somebody who merely stated
the facts. Another point is that the kind of drug, whether cannabis or
heroin as stated by Ebrima, should take a secondary portfolio here. The fact
of the matter is that both are equally illegal, and somebody should be made
accountable for them, and i assert that that somebody is not Ebrima.
Finally, i find it necessary to remind you that ours is a secular
country. As such, Dawda Jawara was at liberty to choose whatever religion he
wanted. Sir Dawda's religion is his prerogative, just like everybody else's
is their prerogative. The Quran does state that "Lakum dinikum waliya deen"
( unto you your religion, and unto me my religion). I think that says it all.
Thanx again and peace to everyone.
It's Tamsir.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:50:49 +0100 (BST)
From: Sainey Keita <S.Keita@reading.ac.uk>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: FELCHERS
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971020163256.5720A-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
Tamsir
I disagree with you that without Jawara, Gambia would still be a colonial
state. Remember Gambia's independence is a historical development it did
not start with Jawara's involvement but long before. Are throwing away
the contributions made by other Gambians like Sir Francis Small, Rev J.C.
Fye, P.S.Njie and you name them. Certainly you are not. So without
Jawara somebody else would have assumed his role. However, I do
cherish the contributions he made towards the struggle for independence
and there after, his name will surely remain in our history books forever.
Thanks,
Sainey.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:20:09 +0100 (BST)
From: Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
To: Gambia Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: FELCHING.
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971020165058.18330A-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
To all the lovely people on the list,
I guess the NKOB knows how to stir up %&*!.
When I joined the list in March, I had similar discussions with other list
members, on issues of FGM, and the new Constitution. I made it clear to
Alpha Robinson then, that the fact that I was Sir Dawda/David Jawara's son
was beside the point.
I do not mind the personal criticism. As long as I get my views across. As
to being a chauvinist, I am proud to say that I try to practice my
chauvinism with a touch of class. If the sister is offended, I appologise.
However, I loathe political correctness, and if the list manager wishes to
remove me, then so be it.
Jammeh used the word dirimocracy, and I am sure with some justification.
All I was trying to point out was that He is the pot calling the kettle
black. I do not see those taking the micky out of my Dad defending Jammeh,
so I guess my message got through. I am not my Dad, in fact we have rather
different views on politics and political correctness. However it would be
hypocritical of me to be angry at any remarks, criticisms, or jokes made
at my Dad's expense. I just hope those who like to give can also take.
About being an agent of the former regime, that was a joke. I guess we all
have different senses of humour, if any at all. About my facts, I typed an
m after the 5. I noticed it and sent a message (conveniently forgotten)
rectifying it. As far as I knew, from the initial news reports, it was
heroin and not cannabis. Again I humbly acknowledged Latir for rectifying
me.
The fact still remains that $24m was transferred to a private Swiss bank
account.
The fact still remains that 6.5 tonnes of cannabis (now destroyed) was
intercepted by the Mauritanian authorities.
I think I will stop here.
Peace, love and harmony to all.
EBS.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 18:37:35 -0700
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: casa/religion/ethnicity --- PART I
Message-ID: <344C075F.169D@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Hi
Tamsir,
I must say that you put forth your argument brilliantly. However, I
have to side with Latjor and Ebrima Sall. A military solution to the
Casamance issue would not be a viable solution. It would mean that one
side has been temporarily overpowered and neutralised. However, if the
dissatisfaction that has brought about the problem in the first place is
not tackled, the conflict would resurface at a later time. It might then
take a more ferocious form because if the Senegalese troops succeed in
crushing the rebels, many people would be killed - probably more people
from Casamance than from Senegal proper. There would be more destruction
in Casamance than in Senegal proper. This would create more tension and
hatred than is now present. Let us also remember that the victor can be
blinded by victory. If the government crushes the rebels, it might feel
that it does not have to negotiate anymore because it has the upper
hand. This can lead some Casamance people to use terrorist tactics
because they cannot fight the Senegalese army. Look at the Middle East.
Look at Nigeria where some groups have resorted to such tactics,
indiscriminately placing explosives which kill innocent people.
A negotiated solution is a more viable solution. The realities of
Senegal are different from those of America centuries ago. Even if they
were alike, a military solution might not work for Senegal as it did for
America. Remember, one man=B4s meat is another man=B4s poison.
Senegal cannot afford instability. Therefore a lasting settlement
should be sought. I believe that Africa should be trying to find ways to
come together and not disintegrate. The boundaries that were drawn by
the colonialists were done to serve their interests and the continuation
of those boundaries is at our disadvantage because most of the African
countries are not economically, politically etc. viable entities.
However, the politics of integration has to take a voluntary form if it
is to have any meaning. People forced against their will to remain at a
disadvantage within Senegal and any other African country cannot expect
to be silenced forever. Their dissatisfaction will be temporarily buried
but ready to blossom in the future.
Maybe we should wait for your proposals in part 2. However, in addition
to Sall=B4s or was it Latjor=B4s confederal proposal, I would like to off=
er
one. Maybe Senegal should take a federal form. The principles of such a
federation should be worked out in such a way as to accord
representation and autonomy to both parties at both local and national
levels. Anyway, I=B4m eagerly awaiting your proposals. Thanks.
Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Tamsir Mbai wrote:
> =
> Masters Latjor and Ebrima Sall,
> Allow me to disagree. In opposition to your view that "military=
> option" is not the way the Senegalese govt should take, i, on the other=
hand
> believe that the Senegalese govt MUST use whatever means necessary to
> maintain the cohesive republic of Senegal, which invariably includes
> Casamance. Casamance should not be given the feeling that they can or s=
hould
> obtain some kind of autonomy from Senegal. To those who ask why, i take=
them
> in retrospect to certain historical events that bear a similar corelati=
on to
> the Casamance issue.
> =
> 1. THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR ---- When some of the southern states decided=
to
> secede from the American UNION, the northern states held their ground i=
n the
> view that the southern declaration was tantamount to treason. The ensui=
ng
> war resulted in more American lives lost than in either World War 1 or =
WW2.
> Obviously this was a tremendous loss, but did the war pay off? I answer=
> emphatically in the positive, YES! Not only did the result of the war i=
n
> favor of the UNION brought about a cohesive America whose leverage is
> greater than any other nation on earth today, the war also brought abou=
t the
> end of slavery in America. So should Senegal tough-it-out if it has to?=
> ABSOLUTELY!
> =
> 2. AFRICAN CRISIS ( ANGOLA, SUDAN, MOROCCO, NIGERIA ) ---- All of these=
> countries have one thing in common. They have either endured or are end=
uring
> an uprising brought about by a people from one part of the country want=
ing
> autonomy from the rest of the country, a-la Casamance syndrome. With th=
e
> exception of Sudan where the war was brought about by former president
> NUMEIRI wanting to desecularize the country in favor of an Islamic stat=
e,
> the Biafran war in Nigeria, the Angola/UNITA war, and the Morocco/Polis=
ario
> war are all reminders that to yield in to pressure from secessionists w=
ould
> be a grave mistake on the part of the Senegalese govt. The unity of Sen=
egal
> MUST be maintained without any form of autonomy given to Casamance, if
> Senegal is to remain a viable nation.
> =
> 3. THE MIDDLE EAST ( KUWAIT, IRAQ ) ---- When the demarcations of the
> national borders of Kuwait we=
re
> redrawn after WW2 by England's Winston Churchill, that area of Iraq tha=
t was
> accorded to Kuwait by the new boundaries was part of the causative agen=
ts
> that led to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990, and the subsequent Deser=
t
> Storm war of 1991. Also, the current creation of an AUTONOMOUS Turkish =
state
> in southern Iraq beyond the 36th Parallel is clear indication of why Se=
negal
> MUST NOT give Casamance any form of autonomy. For one thing, if and whe=
n the
> U.N. sanctions are lifted, Iraq would have to go back to war against it=
s
> Turkish citizenry to bring them back under the umbrella of a unified Ir=
aq.
> This would inevitably be at the expense of some human lives, all caused=
by
> the EVILS or should i say COWARDICE of creating or granting autonomy to=
a
> rebellious section of the country. Beware, Senegal!!!
> =
> ------------------- MORAL LESSONS -----------------------------=
------
> =
> Africa and Africans MUST learn from history. We have been the
> subjects of the "divide and rule" ideology for centuries. It is about t=
ime
> we realize that the maxim "united we stand, divided we fall" is true an=
d
> ominous even in the literal context. From the examples that i have cite=
d,
> nowhere has the attempt to divide the country worked or helped the econ=
omy
> of the respective countries. Would Casamance be different? I DON'T thin=
k so.
> I just hope that the rebel leadership in Casamance would soon wake up t=
o
> this reality.
> Sorry about the long reply fellows. Check out my suggested SOLU=
TION
> to the Casamance debacle in PART II. Thanx for your time and good luck =
to
> everybody.
> It's Tamsir.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:24:01 +0100 (BST)
From: "B.M.Jones" <B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk>
To: bantaba <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <SIMEON.9710201901.A@p128.lib.hull.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Greetings,
I am delighted to be part of gambia-l. I am an economics
research student at the university of Hull. My research is
on the coordination of macroeconomic policy for economic
integration in ECOWAS. Despite being on the other side of
the atlantic, I hope this forum will afford us all the
unique opportunity to engage in constructive discussions.
Let us all bear in mind that we are all Gambians and all of
us are intereted in the economic enhancement of our nation.
Keep up the good work.
----------------------
B.M.Jones
B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:09:41 -0400
From: "Latir Downes-Thomas" <latir@earthlink.net>
To: "Gambia-L" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Sud FM
Message-ID: <01bcdd8b$b871f540$f7101a26@latir>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sud FM, a Senegalese owned national, and now regional, radio station has a
site on the web. Their address is: http://www.metissacana.sn/sud/sudfm.html
You can listen to their live Dakar based broadcast via RealAudio from this
site. I just checked it out and I must say that I my rather cool New York
autumn soul was pleasantly warmed from hearing the sounds from back home.
Sud FM is part of the Groupe Sud Communication company that also publishes a
daily newspaper in Senegal. The newspaper, SUD QUOTIDIEN, can also be read
daily in French online at: http://www.metissacana.sn/sud/sudqu.html
If you read French, you should also check out the company's home page at
http://www.metissacana.sn/sud/home.html#sudqu where you can learn quite a
bit about their impressive media operations.
FYI, they also have a station in Banjul, although I heard there was an
injunction on their operations pending a civil suit by Radio Syd who I
believe claim the name of the newer station sounds too much like their own.
Perhaps those back home can bring us up to date on the developments/outcome
of the case.
Peace.
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:26:56 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: FELCHERS
Message-ID: <19971020192656.9285.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Tamsir,
My response is intersperced in yours below.
>Jainaba and others,
> Pardon me but i think you are wrong. Parental name-calling is
>a sign of a lackluster in diplomacy. From Ebrima's postings, i did >not
make out any attack on your parents, and so i conclude that to do >so to
him is inappropriate, especially in a forum like this.
You must have been sleepy when you first read my posting...why not read
it again and point out the sections where I made those name calls. My
beef is about the maladministrator called Sir David/Dawda who "raped"
the Gambian people in broad daylight for almost three decades(with his
gang of political prostitutes). I care less if his son/daughter is on
the list or not...I have my freedom to free speech.
>By the way, i have never been a fan of the way Jawara ran the >govt
while he was in office.
Nobody in his/her right mind was....even the mentally challenged at
Campama knew change was necessary!!!
>Without him we would probably still be under the jurisdiction
>of Her Royal Highness, Queen Elizabeth II. Guinea Bissau didn't get
>independence until 1974. Gambia's plight could have been worse.
Yeah, right!!! Please tell me you are kidding!!!!
>Finally, i find it necessary to remind you that ours is a secular
>country. As such, Dawda Jawara was at liberty to choose whatever
>religion he wanted. Sir Dawda's religion is his prerogative, just >like
everybody else's is their prerogative.
Unlike you and I, David/Dawda used religion as a political tool, just
like other Vagabonds have used the ethnic card in various other African
countries for their selfish gain. Since he is not (and will never be
back) in power, I won't be suprised if he reverts back to David to
please the monarchy -- a classic case of a "political prostitute".
> Thanx again and peace to everyone.
> It's Tamsir.
>
Jainaba.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:34:36 -0400
From: "Latir Downes-Thomas" <latir@earthlink.net>
To: "Gambia-L" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Air Mali - Sissoko
Message-ID: <01bcdd8f$33b6a180$f7101a26@latir>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The following is an excerpt from an M2 COMMUNICATIONS releases entitled "IN
THE INDUSTRY (NEWS ROUNDUP)" and dated October 20, 1997:
"Private investors have replaced Air Afrique as the main shareholder in
Air Mali S.A. The new investors have taken a majority stake with capital
injections totalling US$2.5m according to Air Mali's chairman, Abradahamane
Cherif Haidara. Air Mali might now have access to cheaper charters through
its new main shareholder, Babani Sissoko. Sissoko has taken on 50% of the
airline. Sissoko is a Malian who lives in the USA and runs an airline
company out of the West African state of Gambia. New flights to
neighbouring African states in addition to those to the Ivory Coast and
Senegal are now being considered."
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:16:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: new member
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971020161440.13224A-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Greetings:
Phillip Sowe has been added to list. Welcome to our banata
and please send a brief introduction of yourself to our
group. Our address is: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:25:57 +0100
From: Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: FELCHERS
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971020212557.0070fc2c@golf.uib.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello Tamsir!
It's been a long time... hope things are going fine with you down there!
I think the name calling thing should be avoided by everyone here. If Ebrima
calls Jammeh (the present president) names because he disapproves his
presidency, then he should be expecting any "name calling" for the former
president from anyone of the 100 and so list members who don't like him as a
president. "Ku jamba sa daharr, ja ko naan". Respect is a mutual effort, you
gain it when you deserve it. Does Jawara (despite being someone daddy)
deserve more respect than Jammeh? The keyword here is "president" not
someone's father, so Ebrima being the son of a former president should be
careful with his words to avoid the same words getting back to his dad. As
far as I am concerned, am not dealing with someone's father with someone who
ruled my country for three decades. I have been brought up so respectfully
that I know better than getting on to someone's parents.
you also wrote:
>By thesame token though, i hold a great deal of reverence for the man just
>becauseof the simple fact that he was the primary architect of Gambia's
>independence. Without him we would probably still be under the jurisdiction
>of Her Royal Highness, Queen Elizabeth II. Guinea Bissau didn't get
>independence until 1974. Gambia's plight could have been worse.
Gambia won it's independence free of charge. The fact being... we are
nothing but a "liability" to the Royal British Kingdom and so for them it's
more logical, economically to grant us independence. On Guinea Bissau,
Portugal was so poor that she couldn't afford loosing her colonies thus she
had to choose military confrontation which costed them more than if they did
otherwise.
I belief we all should refrain ourselves from name calling, but if anyone
fails to do so he/she should be ready to take any heat.
Regards and respect for all,
Abdou Oujimai
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:42:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: FELCHERS
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971020163652.13224B-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Greetings:
It would be worthwhile to have a discussion on the formative
years of the gambian nation. As has been mentioned, the role
that Sir. Francis Small (Pa Small), Rev. J.C. Faye, P.S. Njie,
Sir D.K. Jawara and the rest ought to be known by the
post-independence generation (myself included). This way, there
will not be room for historically inaccurate statements as
those that have been mentioned here.
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:33:12 +0300
From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Court orders wife to stop bullying husband
Message-ID: <199710210245.XAA19328@qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Maybe we should revoke this man's membership to the Testosterone Club,he is
giving us a very,very bad name indeed! Poor boy,the least he could have
done is to run away from her and get himself a brand new wife!
Regards Bass!
----------
> From: Jainaba Diallo <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Court orders wife to stop bullying husband
> Date: Monday, October 20, 1997 9:13 AM
>
> Amigos,
>
> Ha ha ha ha.......oh ha ha ha!!!!!...this ain't funny at all!!
> I hope gambia-l sistas don't do likewise to their loved ones, did I hear
> Amen???
>
> Adios,
> Jainaba.
>
> *********************************************************************
> > HARARE, Oct 19 (AFP) - A Zimbabwean man won a restraining order
> >against his wife after telling a court she frequently beat him up
> >and poured cold water over him while he was sleeping, a newspaper
> >reported Sunday.
> > Describing his wife as "huge in size" he said she also "pulled
> >my private parts" and frog-marched him around in front of his
> >friends.
> > The man, who was not named by the newspaper, fled their home but
> >was followed by his wife who took away the small bus with which he
> >earned his living.
> > The court ordered the wife to keep the peace and return her
> >husband's bus.
> >-=-=-
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 23:12:39 +0300
From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <Gambia-L@u.washington.edu>
Subject: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
Message-ID: <199710210245.XAA19336@qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Torstein!
Many people have contributed either their Pennies or Dalasis or Kroners to
this Racial debate,so I thought that I also should contribute my Couple of
RIYALS in it.Experience has taught us on this list that whenever a given
subject refuses to go away,that may be a sign that such a subject needs to
be really discussed in a much more balanced and serious manner.
Well,I need not remind you here - you must know by now - that, in
principle, the Gambia-L,as an instituition,condemns and infact always
successfully shouts down anyone who tries to engage in verbal savagery
based on race.So,that being the case,it cannot be responsible and should
not have to apologize everytime a new member or a "hardliner" gets out of
control racially.So,I will not talk about the List,but rather about Gambian
and Black attitude in general towards Whites and Whiteness and White
Culture.
The arguments you are putting forward are fundamentally correct,but you
cannot stretch them too much,else you would run the risk of confusing the
fantastic Ideal (how the world should have worked) with the brutal reality
of how it actually is out there in 1997.
If I recall correctly what you wrote in your letter of introduction to this
list,Gambia is the first black country you have ever lived and worked in
and that your stay there is barely one year,and the added fact that you
come from a country that was not in any real sense involved in the colonial
MISadventures of Black Africa would make it even much more difficult for
you to understand the black peoples very complex attitudes towards Whites
and White Culture.Of course,we are not saying that just because you are
doing business in the Gambia,you need to read some Gambian History.Not that
you will not benefit from that in your dealings with the Gambians,but since
most Gambians themselves don't know much about Gambian history,not sayinfg
anything about black history in general,it would be totally unfair to
require that of foreigners who just happened to come there to run a
business.But at the risk of contradicting myself,I would suggest that you
do just that,since it would help you answer a lot of the questions you find
baffling with regards to black attitudes towards whites.Or better
still,maybe you should read Edward Said's Classic,CULTURE and IMPERIALISM.
Torstein,for the sake of simplicity,I would posit that there are two
categories of Gambians as far as attitudes towards Whites are concerned.The
Westernized Minority,the ones exposed to the Western Schooling System
sufficiently enough to enable them to understand how western culture works
and how it deals with non-Western cultures and peoples,and the
non-westernized Majority,which includes not only those who have never
attended the western schooling system before,but also some who have been to
school but who know almost nothing about western culture beyond the Three
R,s (Reading,Riting,Rithmetic),the good news for someone like you,a white
man,living in the Gambia is that most of this latter category
like,love,respect and admire white people and white lifestyle and most of
them believe that they are clean,healthy,wealthy and very wise;so,maybe
their treatment of a white living among them is terribly inconveniencing
and irritating sometime,but definitely not of the racial hatred type that
many of us have experienced at first hand so very much in white
societies.As for the
first category,the ones that are really familiar with Western culture that
in turn can be divided into basically three groups:1) The ones that accept
western values wholesale and believe that the cure for the present economic
and social dysfunction of black societies lies in the total replacement of
black instituitions and values with Western ones. 2) The liberals, that
believe that there are indeed lots of elements in Western culture that can
be profoundly helpful if incorporated in a proper manner into black
instituitions.3) The rejectionists,"the hardliners" who believe that the
only solution to our miseries is to relclaim our black heritage in its
totality and thus reject the western solutions .
Coming back to the attitude of the vast majority of Gambians towards
Whites,namely, the second category,we have to understand here that such an
attitude came about as a direct result of three hundred years of well
orchestrated facade maintained by the successive colonial administrators
in
which the myth of the whiteman as powerful,knowledgeable and even
invincible was carefully cultivated into the popular imagination of the
colonized peoples,Gambians in this case.The creation of such a myth was
done with and by all the means necessary,otherwise it would have been
impossible for a couple of hundred white men and their wives and children
to rule over hundreds of
thousands of black people some ten thousand kilometers away from the United
kingdom.The brutalities used to deal with anyone or any group that dared to
challenge that myth are beyond the scope of this article.The problem with
myths is that they have a very funny way of representing reality for a
people who have no other means of knowing facts that could destroy those
myths.And since, most Gambians are still illiterate or just terribly badly
educated,the myths about white people that were so carefully cultivated by
the British Colonial Machine into our popular consciousness are very much
alive and kicking.Professor Shekh Anta Diop had taught us that even though
the sacrifices we made, in terms of blood and lives in our struggle to end
the physical occupation of our lands and resources by whites,are
immense,that would be nothing compared to the time ,energy and effort
required to Undo the MINDSET,the psychology,the general black inferiority
complex towards anything that has the predicate called WHITE.So,given
Diopian analysis,it is not at all surprising that after thirty something
years of physical Independence from Britain, very many urban Gambian women
still confuse female beauty with whiteness and they value that colour to
the
extent of using chemicals on their skins that would help kill the very
stuff,Melanin,that make them black.To their distorted minds and logic,it is
the blackness of their skin that prevents them from being beautiful,and
interestingly enough many Gambian men seem to agree with them in their
that
reasoning, since a significant number of them constantly keep on
terrorising
our darker skinned women with the threat of loving or marrying lighter
skinned women - a threat that has on numerous occasions had the devastating
effect of pushing some who would otherwise not have ventured into such a
moral insanity,such a self-mutilation,such an insult of the self and
dignity of black humanity!
So,Mr.Torstein,if I were a blond from somewhere in Scandanavia visiting a
black country like Gambia,there would be nothing that could prevent me from
thinking loudly to myself:" But what the hell is wrong with these people?!
All of them are black and almost all of them are constantly harping on and
singing the praises of blackness,and yet there is very little evidence in
their day to day behaviour that seems to suggest that they indeed believe
in what they are so tirelessly talking about: their pride in their
blackness!"
But then again, first impressions could be very dangerously deceptive,and
judging a people for
their present shortcomings and failures without giving any thought to their
past cannot be a terribly fair appraisal.The fact is that,sometimes the
sheer weight of the history of a people is just too heavy a burden to be
borne by just one generation,and Gambia,as part of the once colonized black
humanity has a very heavy and loaded history;and the weightiness of our
history is made much more complicated by our shocking incapacity to produce
,since our so-called physical independence ,the kind of great ,good,sincere
and patriotic leaders that are so easily and abundantly available to other
societies whose skin colours are different from our own;baffling,don't you
think?
Mr.Torstein,you being the kind of very genuinely nice guy you sound to be
like,it cannot be very difficult for you to understand how very troubled
and frustrated we must feel like:after three and a half decades of
self-rule,our learnig instituitions have totally failed to produce for us
even one good leader who does not have at the back of his mind some white
dreams that eventually translates itself into defrauding our already
impoverished and tired masses;after three and a half decades of black
self-rule, many of our women still believe that the colour of beauty is
white;after three and a half decades of self-rule,we still cannot feed
ourselves and are addicted to earning our living by annually begging from
international donors;after three and a half decades of self-rule, we still
cannot guarantee a 24-hour electricity supply for just our cities and
towns.This list could go on and on.But in a nutshell,we the black peoples
have
still unfortunately not been able to find the right formula that would
enable us to
build a prosperous and dignified society that would neither beg nor steal
nor be ashamed of its colour and heritage.But, of course,the wheel of
progress never
stops,and our failure today does not mean that we will not find the magic
solution some day in the future;and when that great day arrives,that will
be the day that blackness will not equal failure,to political
chaos, to social dysfunction,to intolerance,to dictatorship,to bigotry and
to senseless violence.But until such a day actually arrives,and it will
arrive,we cannot afford not to sing the praises of our colour many times
enough to make sure that its basic message,the greatness of the black
people, that was lost on the past generation will eventually get through to
the coming ones.So,to conclude,let us listen to one of the giants of Black
Poetry,AIME CESAIRE:
"But the work of man is only just begining
and it remains to man to conquer all
` the violence entrenched in the recess of his passion.
And no race posseses the monopoly of beauty,
of intelligence,of force,and there
is a place for all at the rendevous of victory"
Regards Bassss!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:33:51 -0500
From: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Jawara/Casamance
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971020161503.0f87e882@etbu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mr Abdou Gibba,
Whazzup? Nice to hear from you again even though the circumstances
were a little awkward. As to your inquiry about how i am doing, I am doing
wonderfully well. Thanx.
Mr Buharry, in your statement of dissent you wrote that "Maybe we
should wait for your proposals in part 2." I think so too. However, the
second part may not come until Wednesday or Thursday because of my school
schedule.
Mr Keita, thanx for the compliment and the dissent as well. That is
what makes gambia-l a beautiful place. Welcome on board.
To the rest of gambia-l, sorry for the singular and selective
response, which may be seen as a private mail. Peace to everyone.
It's Tamsir.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:10:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Black Inventors
Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9710201610.32130.sarian@groucho>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-MD5: f84nEzBT3fvA8R75hv8gSA==
Hi Ler's,
Somebody requested for this info but I couldn't remember who did thus my posting
to the whole group.
regards,
sarian
------------- Begin Forwarded Message -------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:44:59 -0600 (MDT)
From: Odis Lewis - NASC <odis.lewis@Central>
Subject: Re: Black Inventors
To: Sarian.Loum@Corp
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-MD5: nmZcaWasGSxFpY/DPx0hDQ==
here you go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>BLACK INVENTORS AND INVENTIONS
>
>Product Inventor Date
>======= ======== =====
>
>air conditioning unit Frederick M. Jones July 12,
1949
>almanac Benjamin Banneker Approx 1791
>auto cut-off switch Granville T. Woods January 1,
1839
>auto fishing devise G. Cook May 30, 1899
>automatic gear shift Richard Spikes February 28,
1932
>baby buggy W.H. Richardson June 18,
1899
>bicycle frame L.R. Johnson October 10,
1899
>biscuit cutter A.P. Ashbourne November 30,
1875
>blood plasma bag Charles Drew Approx. 1945
>cellular phone Henry T. Sampson July 6, 1971
>chamber commode T. Elkins January 3,
1897
>clothes dryer G. T. Sampson June 6, 1862
>curtain rod S. R. Scratton November 30,
1889
>curtain rod support William S. Grant August 4,
1896
>door knob O. Dorsey December 10,
1878
>door stop O. Dorsey December 10,
1878
>dust pan Lawrence P. Ray August 3,
1897
>egg beater Willie Johnson February 5,
1884
>electric lampbulb Lewis Latimer March 21,
1882
>elevator Alexander Miles October 11,
1867
>eye protector P. Johnson November 2,
1880
>fire escape ladder J. W. Winters May 7, 1878
>fire extinguisher T. Marshall October 26,
1872
>folding bed L. C. Bailey July 18,
1899
>folding chair Brody & Surgwar June 11,
1889
>fountain pen W. B. Purvis January 7,
1890
>furniture caster O. A. Fisher 1878
>gas mask Garrett Morgan October 13,
1914
>golf tee T. Grant December 12,
1899
>guitar Robert F. Flemming, Jr. March 3,
1886
>hair brush Lydia O. Newman November 15,
18--
>hand stamp Walter B. Purvis February 27
1883
>horse shoe J. Ricks March 30,
1885
>ice cream scooper A. L. Cralle February 2,
1897
>improv. sugar making Norbet Rillieux December 10,
1846
>insect-destroyer gun A. C. Richard February 28,
1899
>ironing board Sarah Boone December 30,
1887
>key chain F. J. Loudin January 9,
1894
>lantern Michael C. Harvey August 19,
1884
>lawn mower L. A. Burr May 19, 1889
>lawn sprinkler J. W. Smith May 4, 1897
>lemon squeezer J. Thomas White December 8,
1893
>lock W. A. Martin July 23,
18--
>lubricating cup Ellijah McCoy November 15,
1895
>lunch pail James Robinson 1887
>mail box Paul L. Downing October 27,
1891
>mop Thomas W. Stewart June 11,
1893
>motor Frederick M. Jones June 27,
1939
>peanut butter George Washington Carver1896
>pencil sharpener J. L. Love November 23,
1897
>record player arm Joseph Hunger Dickenson January 8,
1819
>refrigerator J. Standard June 14,
1891
>riding saddles W. D. Davis October 6,
1895
>rolling pin John W. Reed 1864
>shampoo headrest C. O. Bailiff October 11,
1898
>spark plug Edmond Berger February 2,
1839
>stethoscope Imhotep Ancient
Egypt
>stove T. A. Carrington July 25,
1876
>straightening comb Madam C. J. Walker Approx 1905
>street sweeper Charles B. Brooks March 17,
1890
>phone transmitter Granville T. Woods December 2,
1884
>thermostat control Frederick M. Jones February 23,
1960
>traffic light Garrett Morgan November 20,
1923
>tricycle M. A. Cherry May 6, 1886
>typewriter Burridge & Marshman April 7,
1885
>
>
>*******************************************************************
********
>Kymberly Riggins
>kriggins@spelman.edu
>www.spelman.edu/~kriggins (Check it out!!!!)
>*******************************************************************
*********
>
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> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:38:14 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp>
> Subject: Black Inventors
> To: sunnet@Sun.COM
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-MD5: 61pAhZPElM8vpaN1qj99vQ==
>
> All,
>
> A brother is interested in purchasing a book that has all the names of the
black
> inventors. If one of you know the existence of such a book could you please
> send it my way.
>
> kind regards,
>
> sarian
>
\^^^/
(0 0)
*****************************ooO*(_)*Ooo*****************************
NORTH AMERICAN SOLUTION CENTER
ODIS LEWIS, JR. Sun Service
ACCOUNT AMBASSADOR MS UBRM10
303-464-4858 DIRECT X50858 BROOMFIELD, CO
odis.lewis@Central
**********************************Oooo.******************************
.oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)
------------- End Forwarded Message -------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:26:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
To: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Black Inventors
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971020202457.14430A-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sarian, I was glad to see that a former student of my
(Kymberly Riggins) was the source for this info.
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 21:08:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: MJawara@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: FELCHING.
Message-ID: <971020210250_899167798@emout06.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-10-20 12:21:35 EDT, Ebrima wrote:
<< If the sister is offended, I appologise.
However, I loathe political correctness, and if the list manager wishes to
remove me, then so be it.
>>
Ebs, I commend you for your wisdom and having the decency to apologize to the
lady.Please be assured that you'll not be removed from the List, atleast not
for the unfortunate remarks you made.This is a ' bantaba ' and not a secret
organization in cyberspace with a hidden agenda or motive.You shouldn't mind
been refered to as an agent.We're agents here with different ranks :-) .I may
be one of the few who believe that while you've the name [ Jawara ], you're
also someone in your own right.I suggest that you take your seat at the
bantaba and enjoy the priviledges. V.I.P seats are usually allocated to the
elders in a traditional bantaba setting, but take a good seat and jump in any
discussion as you find necessary.Sometime last year, I had the audacity to
comment on one of Dr. Nyang's postings.My learned friend never saw it as
insulting.I met him quite a few times later at Gambian gatherings, but the
oversensitive folks on the List reacted differently and if I may add, my
posting drew some unwanted criticism.I've built an ' immune system ' since my
High School days and so adjectives don't bother me.
I guess the name Jawara is almost synonymous to Politics in Gambia.This
reality never dawned on me until my last visit to The Gambia ( August ' 96 ),
or should I say my only trip to Banjul in 8 yrs.At the airport, everyone else
, but me had his / her passport looked at and then handed back.I spent
roughly 15 mins. with a man whom I was later told is an agent of the N.I.A..
An inquiry into The Jammeh / Jallow Swiss Gate Scandal incidentally, was one
of the demands made by the demonstrators at The Gambian Embassy in
Washington.It was a great success and it made the headlines in the local
papers in Banjul.The newspaper coverage prompted the gov't. to go on the
offensive and also downplay the significance of the protest by playing the
numbers game.
I commend the 'JALIBAA and the Coalition of Gambians Against Torture and
Repression' for sponsoring the event.
Musa Kebba Jawara.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 02:11:34 +0100 (BST)
From: Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
To: Gambia Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: The military.
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971021015640.2875A-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
"IN THE PRACTICAL ART OF WAR, THE BEST THING OF ALL IS TO TAKE THE ENEMY'S
COUNTRY WHOLE AND INTACT; TO SHATTER AND DESTROY IT IS NOT SO GOOD,
SO, TOO, IT IS BETTER TO CAPTURE AN ARMY ENTIRE THAN TO DESTROY IT, TO
CAPTURE A REGIMENT, A DETACHMENT OR A COMPANY ENTIRE THAN TO DESTROY THEM.
HENCE TO FIGHT AND CONQUEER ALL YOUR BATTLES IS NOT SUPREME EXCELLENCE;
SUPREME EXCELLENCE CONSISTS IN BREAKING THE ENEMY'S RESISTANCE WITHOUT
FIGHGTING."
Taken from the Art of War, By Sun Tzu, 500 BC.
Perhaps our Leaders will heed the words of Sun Tzu.
Peace to all,
EBS.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:00:55 -0100
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: CORRECTION : RE: THESE TERRIBLE WHITE PEOPLE
Message-ID: <B0000011649@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit
Ahh, come on my friend, I don't know anything about you..
How can I think anything like that?!?
BTW: Do your wife mind being called a white woman?
Regards,
Torstein
The Gambia
> And Torstein just for the record I have two daughters by a white woman.
> The point...?. Just in case you start thinking "Oh! he hates HATE white
> people".
>
> A.K.N.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:11:01 -0100
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These terrible WHITE people
Message-ID: <B0000011646@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit
----------
> From: Abdou Gibba
You wrote:
> I only hope it was as easy as it sounds. In any case, which "color" is
> suppose to take the initial step of "waving the white flag"??? Any other
> suggestions???
> Regards,
> Abdou Oujimai
Hello Mr. Gibba.
I know that this color-concept is everywhere now, and it will probably take hundreds of
years to forget about it.
Maybe when everybody is fed up with it, something will happen?!
I just know that I am fed up with my "role" in this thing and I guess even I haven't experienced
anything compared to some groups of people (yellow or black or red or green or whatever....)
Sincerely,
The brown(my left arm & my face) and
pink (my legs) and
greyish (the rest of my body)
Torstein
The Gambia
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:52:59 -0100
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These terrible WHITE people
Message-ID: <B0000011647@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit
----------
> From: Gabriel Ndow
You wrote:
> The 'hang-up' I mentioned was in the context of the racial
> system in which 'Whites, toubabs' in the
> past and present continue to subjugate and exploit peoples whose
> skin coloration is heavily melanated. If we were to take a
> journey back in time to say 6000 b.c.e. when there was little
> contact between the races, you will discover that there were
> no racial systems in place.
Is there much written evidence for this? How can you be sure of
a world 8000 years ago?
> The 'hang-up' on race came after
> the the domination of Black people from Indus-Kush to Mandeland,
> by toubabos. (By the way, the word 'toubab' was first used in
> reference to the Arabs during the days of the mali empire.)
> LatJor
I am sorry but I do not believe that "white" people or people from
western countries is the only ones who uses/has used color to
differ among people.
I believe in the general "evilness" of humans, and anyone can be a "Racist".
Racism as far as I know is coined from the term "race" a term me and my brother
strongly opposes to when it comes to humans vs. humans.
The word being should then also be based on ethnicallity(i.e.Jola, Mandinka etc.)
or just plain looks(i.e.long nose, short/long body).
I couldn't care less where the word "toubab" originates from. Just like an N... word that
has been misused to the extreme I would like people to stop calling me "Toubab(o)", please?!
Sincerely,
Torstein
The Gambia
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 18:51:31 -0100
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These terrible "WHITE" people
Message-ID: <B0000011644@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit
Mr. Njie.
You wrote:
> I say to you if you are sincerely interested in doing away with with
> peoples' emphasis on colour then you are talking to the wrong audience!
I really hope that is not so, I believe this audience is a perfect mix of people
from around the world, Gambians and non-Gambians..
> It's colour that is used by white people - if we just for simplification
> purposes agree to call you white, because white you are not - tot judge
> other races.
No, I don't want to be simplified to a "white" person.
I want you and anybody else to call me by my name or nationality, NOT by color.
>When Gambians/Africans focus on colour it is only because
> it is exactly colour that has been used over the centuries to alienate
> them.
Being a rather young person(28), I have to little historical knowledge to know if
Africans has used color as a "weapon" before the western colonism.
My personal thought is that they probably did in some ways (to separate tribes?)
> You would not have balcks/Africans live in your neigbhourehood, not sit
> beside you in church, not eat in the same restaurants with you, not do
> tour women,... The list goes on; and yet you wander why we want to build
> our own!
Are you talking metaphorically or general here?
Are you judging me on behalf of my forefathers doings?
I remember reading about these things happening it in the US all the way up until the 60's,
but would it not to be unfair to say I have the same problem as my grandfather?
And yes, to exlude people because of their color, goes both ways I believe.
Less separating, more mixing that's what the World needs.
> When I talk about colour it is not to be evil towards you, but for me
> personally, rather to identify the source of evil! When you used colour
> as a creteria to steal from me, and after you have stolen from me and
> put me in the situation in which I am today you cannot tell me to just
> forget about colour by the wave of a magic wan.
Again I guess you are talking in a general term?
> Till this day blacks are attacked physically all over the "Western
> world" by dint of our colour. If the victims are lucky they come out of
> it alive. The day you are attacked physically in The Gambia/Africa it
> will be to be robbed because some poor criminal needs food to eat, not
> because of racial hatred.
I have no statistics to prove you otherwise, but the little I have heard from the US
is that a majority of dark skinned people are actually killed/attacked by other
dark skinned people?! Also there seems to be certain areas in the US where a person
with a light complexion really, really should not go?!
> For me it is no less than sheer hipocrisy to tell black people to forget
> colour.
> Go tell that to "white" people. Campaign amongst you own to get rid of
> the social malaise of RACISM. We blacks are just responding to RACISM!.
> A. Kabir Njie.
Well, this is where we differ the most I guess. The closest thing to "my people" would
be people of my nationality, and I must admit that I really do not like most of them very well...
I would like to be able to be called "brother" by my African, Indian, Chinese, American, Australian
etc.
friend, and not being put into a group because I happen to have a lack of active Melanie.
On the topic of racism I am sorry to say that my experience so far (in The Gambia and elsewhere) is
that racism lives very well among people of any nationality. One example in The Gambia is tribal
racism
and another one is racism against "foreigners", foreigners being refugees etc.. from other WA
countries.
Sincerely,
Torstein
The Gambia
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:48:09 -0700
From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Abdou Gibba
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971020224809.00686454@mail.interlog.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mr. Gibba,
I spoke with Karafa Badjie who told me a little bit about you. Would you
contact me at the above e-mail address so that we can get to know each other?
I can't wait to be in touch with you. Regards to you and yours.
B. Paul Gibba.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:00:20 -0700
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: new member
Message-ID: <344C36E4.21B8@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gabriel Ndow wrote:
>
> Greetings:
> Phillip Sowe has been added to list. Welcome to our banata
> and please send a brief introduction of yourself to our
> group. Our address is: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
>
> LatJorWelcome Philip Sowe to the list and please give my best regards to Uncle
Dan whenever you talk to him .
Habib
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:03:40 -0700
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: education support
Message-ID: <344C37AC.705A@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Gunjur@aol.com wrote:
>
> l think that Latjor's idea of forming alumnus groups to lend financial
> support for education etc is a great idea. What it does is give us a starting
> point. l think that everyone on the education comittee will agree that after
> the initial correspondence and compilation of the answers from the
> questionaire, we are really at a loss for where and how exactly to start.
> This will be a manageable begining from which we can launch more cooperative
> ventures .
>
> Jabou Joh.Good Idea. Hope we can form a speial group that can be accountable and
sincere to help all the needy.
Pls keep me posted . I strongly support this concept.
Habib
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:22:06 -0700
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: Dusty Sukuru-kunda
Message-ID: <344C3BFE.64C2@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gunjur@aol.com wrote:
>
> Dear Bass,
>
> For the life of me, l do not know how you came to arrive at the conclusion
> that l am of the view that only Islam should be practiced in the Gambia. It
> reminds me of the game where you start a rumour and watch what it becomes by
> the time it gets back to you, a completely different thing from the initial
> statement. How does my pointing out misinfromation about Islam as put forth
> by others suddenly mean that l am advocating that everyone should be s
> Muslim? l think if you are as knowledgeable about the religion as you propose
> to be, then you must surely know that it advocates leaving everyone to their
> choices. Furthermore, even the prophet Muhammad had treaties with some of the
> pagans during his time. This religion advocate treating everyone with
> courtesy and respect, and that Allah, not us , is the final judge. Those who
> do not know this , or take heed of this fact,constitute the negative element
> that is giving Islam a bad name today.
> Go back to all the postings of the previous discussions and see if you will
> find anywhere l condoned Mr. Bojang's threats against the Ahmadiyyas, or
> advocated that Islam should be practiced by one and all. l think that perhaps
> time has dimmed your memories of my exact statements on this issue. lf l am
> ever minister of whatever my friend, l will impart my responsibilities to ALL
> Gambians and my fellow human beings with the caring, respect, consideration
> and fairness that being raised a Muslim and a Gambian has imparted on me. And
> that outlook, leaves no room for totalitarianism of any sort, thank you.
>
> Jabou Joh.Jabou,
I think both Basss and you make some valid points but remember that
interpretation of the Hadith can be very misleading . It depends entirely
on the authors but the QURAN which descended from the angels directly to
the prophet, Muhamed (peace be unto him), CAN NOT be misquoted due to
that fact.
Islam during the days of the prophet did not have Sunni or Shia, Tijanni
or Nyassain , or Wahabi or Jaffari ,or sufism , or Hanafi or Shafi or any
other differences we see today.
Basically there was only one way . The prophet prayed both ways- with
folded hands and hands straight down . All were right then and the same
should apply now also. Let us look at the similarities not differences
please. I agree with Jabou no one should be allowed to add changes to our
religion as the Ahmadiyas did but no one should force the religion on any
one as Basss also rightly pointed.
Just wanted to get some facts for us to base this issue.
peace
Habib
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:43:20 -0700
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: fwd: GAMBIA--GOVERNMENT CENSORS OPPOSITION TO FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION
Message-ID: <344C40F8.3E9E@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Modou Jallow wrote:
>
> Latir, you wrote:
>
> > Here is a release I found in a Usenet newsgroup. I post it only for
> > discussion/information purposes and not as an advocate for or against
> > anything in it.
> >
> > Peace.
> >
> > Latir Gheran
> >
> > ****************************************************************************
> > 2 September 1997
> >
> > It is estimated that 70-80% of women in Gambia undergo female genital
> > mutilation, also known as female circumcision. The procedure is typically
> > performed on girls between five and twelve years old by non-medical
> > personnel
> > with crude and unsterile equipment, and without anesthetic. Supporters of
> > the procedure defend it as a means of ensuring a women's virginity by
> > suppressing her sexual desires, thereby making her more suitable for
> > marriage.
> >
> > There is no evidence that female genital mutilation improves the health of
> > the child in any way. To the contrary, infection, excessive bleeding,
> > severe
> > pain during urination, menstruation, sexual intercourse, and childbirth,
> > psychological trauma, and death are common consequences of the operation.
> > In April 1997, the World Health Organization, the U.N. Children's Fund
> > (UNICEF), and the U.N. Population Fund (UNPF) appealed to governments to
> > support efforts to end female genital mutilation. The World Medical
> > Association adopted a statement on female genital mutilation in October 1993
> > at the 45th World Medical Assembly in which it "condemns the practice of
> > genital mutilation including circumcision where women and girls are
> > concerned
> > and condemns the participation of physicians in the execution of such
> > practices."
> >
> > Female genital mutilation constitutes a serious violation of international
> > human rights standards, including those enumerated in the U.N. Convention on
> > the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW), the
> > U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child (Rights of the Child Convention),
> > and the African Charter on Human and People's Rights (the African Charter),
> > which are all legally binding on Gambia as a State Party.
> > Under CEDAW:
>
> And now, here is a revisitation of yet another "sensitive" subject, Female
> Genital Mutilation (FGM). Latir, Your forwarded article has inspired me to
> send this piece that I wrote earlier this year for a research paper
> project. Bass, you might recall that I wrote to you personally asking for
> you opinion on this subject (unfortunately, you never had time to
> respond). The piece itself was 15 pages long but for the purpose of
> brevity, I have forwarded only a portion of the paper. I hope that this
> will be an eye-opener for those who are not familiar with the evil
> practice of FGM. If you should find it offensive, please accept my
> apology. On the hand, any comments, whether for or against the practice
> would be greatly appreciated. The documentation of all sources will be
> found at the end of the piece. In addition, any quotations, paraphrases
> and summaries are shown with document page numbers in brackets at the end.
>
> May God be the judge of our actions.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Female Genital Mutilation:
> The Evil Practice of the Silent Mind
> by
> Moe S. Jallow
>
> Female genital mutilation, also known as FGM or simply female
> circumcision, is generally a practice in which a young female is
> circumcised by cutting off the genitals. In many nations of the world, the
> practice is widely accepted as a requirement that must be met in order to
> keep up with old traditional and religious beliefs. Despite the torture of
> pain that is endured by the victims, the practice has become more
> transparent in recent years. Some advocates declare it a religious
> sanction that defines the natural beauty of a clean woman in their society
> whereas other groups simply practice it because it is a form of cultural
> initiation that their elders have done for several years. In spite of
> these claims, FGM has caused many advanced nations to denounce it as a
> violation of human rights and has cautioned the advocates, mainly the
> government leaders of their countries, to retrace their footsteps in order
> to revitalize the validity of their claims.
>
> The practice of FGM is not new to this world as it is termed as part of
> the parcel of heritage of many of the societies in which it is practiced.
> In fact, it has been around as far back as 4000 years ago. Some Islamic
> scholars believe that it originated from Egypt, during the time of the
> great pharaohs, and where it is also still practiced today. Apart from
> Egypt, it also practiced in Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Malaysia and many parts
> of West Africa, all of which are Islamic regions. In most of these
> countries, the reasons for the practice varies according to the religious
> and cultural divisiveness of the region. As Alexandra Socarides notes, in
> Egypt for example, activists have raised the main issue of health hazards
> associated with the practice while proponents claim that it "preserves the
> innocence and beauty" of girls while keeping their sexual appetites "under
> control" (22).
>
> Although widely practiced in many different countries, there are
> essentially three forms of FGM. The less common type is called the "Sunna"
> circumcision, which translates to cutting off the nose of the clitoris in
> Islam, which was initiated by Prophet Muhammad, who was believed to be, by
> the Muslims, the last messenger of God. Due to the simplicity and less
> complication of this type of FGM, authors J A Black and G D Debelle note
> that this type of circumcision is the only type that can be "correctly
> called circumcision" (1590). A less common but widely practiced form is
> called excision which involves the removal of the clitoris and the
> adjacent parts of the labia minora. This procedure is the most common type
> of FGM in many parts of the Islamic countries. Infibulation, which is the
> most common type, is done to preserve virginity until after marriage and
> it involves the cutting off of the clitoris, the labia minora and majora
> and sewing together the two sides of the vulva and leaving only a small
> opening for urine and menstrual flow. Unlike excision, this type is
> practiced by the majority of non-Muslims in which girls are circumcised at
> puberty as an important initiation into the tribe.
>
> In all types of FGMs, the practice among females is considered the
> most significant rite of passage of adulthood as it enhances the tribal
> and social bonding of families in society. By circumcising a young woman,
> she is being conditioned to reduce a her sexual desire so that she won't
> go looking for extramarital affairs. Her marriage opportunities and
> father's status within the society are increased due to the fact that
> circumcision is the only way to be socially acceptable and the only
> passage from childhood to adulthood. Also, adds Norra Macready, most of
> the advocates of the practice believe that a circumcised woman is
> characterized as a decent woman since by circumcision she is conditioned
> to abstain from sex (1103). Infibulation is especially advocated through
> out the world and it is the one that attracts the attention of the
> international community. According to Mack Gerry, "The most common
> explanation given by participants is that infibulation is required for
> marriage and honor. Infibulation prepares for marriage, is a prerequisite
> for marriage, and so on." Here, one can see the reality of the whole
> acceptance of Infibulation.
>
> FGM has been around for many years and has its roots stemming from Middle
> Eastern countries where Islam originated. The practice then quickly spread
> to many surrounding countries that were influenced by the Islamic
> Renaissance. In many parts of Africa, for example, the practice is so
> common that it is widely regarded as a ritual that is considered a
> traditional festivity. In these countries, Josh Hamilton reports that FGM
> is most obvious in African countries, where as high as ninety percent of
> women and girls are mutilated "for non-therapeutic reasons - usually
> cultural or religious - with the aim of reducing sexual responsiveness or
> drive" (1148). As often, girls as young as four years, are circumcised to
> prepare them for the role of the future mothers of the next generation.
> Without circumcision, these girls would be considered unfit for marriage
> and therefore disregarded as "unclean" women some of whom can never find a
> respectable husband to marry them.
>
> During the ceremony of this type of FGM, the girls are taken away from
> their homes, with the approval of their parents, to a remote place where
> they are briefed about what is to become of them. While screaming as loud
> as they could, the girls are very helpless since even their own mothers
> may not be present during the actual ceremony of cutting the genitals. As
> young as they are, their only defense are the tears of humiliation that
> can touch even the most ignorant mother. After the formal introduction of
> the members, the head woman prepares the girls for the ritual. She is
> armed with razor blade (sometimes a sharp knife) and her whole lower face
> is covered with a white cloth. Individually, the girls are brought into a
> separate room where the head woman along with her assistants are located.
> With the help of the assistants, the girls' legs are forced to pull apart
> as wide as possible to open the vagina and disclose the clitoris. The head
> woman then uses the razor( or other sharp object) to cut it off whilst the
> girl engages in a constant yelling and jerking and a possible bleeding to
> death. Each girl in turn, being more scared than the girl before her due
> to the loud screams, is brought in to go through the same torture. In most
> cases the head woman will use the same blade on several different girls
> without sterilization, creating a possible infection of all types of blood
> diseases.
>
> Sharon Lerner warns, many critics of the practice have been
> considered intermediaries who have no understanding of the real issues
> behind the truth. These same critics are the one who consider the practice
> evil "form of sexual control" that should be discouraged by all countries
> of the world (44). To understand, the real issues one not needs to
> understand the effects of FGM. According to Lerner, apart from
> disorienting a girl's sexual pleasure, "genital mutilation can cause
> incidental bleeding, infection, and even death" (44).
>
> The proponents of the act have a different view of the whole issue.
> Many believe that the society is engrossed in a dilemma of friction
> between the gender where men have to be the supreme commanders of the
> family if life is to be normal. Mariama Barrie discloses:
> Advocates of female genital mutilation, most of them members of
> the dominant male
> hierarchy, zealously guard the belief that an uncircumcised
> woman is unclean, impure
> and unfit to marry and bear children or attain respect in the
> old age. They charge the
> increasing vocal opponents of the practice many of us living
> on American soil
> with trying to undermine African culture." (54)
>
> The same attitude is shown by many of the cultures in the African
> continent. For this reason, it may become very difficult to eradicate
> since the ignorance of the general public is an issue of choice. In Egypt,
> for instance, laws are constantly being overturned as governments change
> hands. As Abd El Hadi notes, in less than two years, a law banning FGM,
> was reversed when a new Minister took office and re-instated the
> mutilation practice in the hospitals, which was originally banned by the
> former Minister (129).
>
> In all these cases, female genital mutilation is thus seen here as another
> patriarchal means to prevent women from being uncontrollable. By
> mutilating them, the power of the males is enhanced to the point that it
> makes the women subservient slaves of men. The FGM nightmare becomes
> clearer when a man refuses to marry a woman who is not circumcised. Thus
> arranged marriages are still the rule by which many men marry in most
> parts of Africa since the majority of women are still illiterate due to
> the failure of their governments to provide education. In this way, women
> are quite unable to help themselves by breaking out of the polygamous
> marriages and voicing out there opinions on male dominance.
>
> To blame African men alone, however, would constitute a biased
> solution if one considers male dominance in other parts of the world. By
> considering the overall male attack of females, including female children,
> it would be easy to understand why men can get away with violence in the
> form of mutilation as in FGM. Since most of the governments are
> male-dominated, the violent domination of families by men will remain
> intact for a very long time. As Norra Macready observes, rather than
> looking for the causes of such actions, the results are always dealt with
> in an unfashionable and misleading way to disguise the reality (1103).
>
> It is surprising to find that there is virtually no place in the
> world where the abuse of women and girls does not go on. But nowhere are
> the men on top talking about the violence their subjects are enduring.
> Those men who know the truth tend to hide the ones that perpetrate the
> violence. How then can the truth ever be told when the men who should
> condemn and declare inhumane the violence of their fellow counterparts
> sit in silence slumber? If we are ever going to break the cycle of violent
> incidents that engulfs the misfortunate of this world then the men of
> power must speak out. The silence of these men is what has covered up the
> cycle of women and girls for centuries and it also the reason why those
> who dare speak up are threatened.
>
> To strengthen traditional families, these governments must step up to
> increase awareness of the female equality in policy making issues where
> the gender gap is immeasurable. The patriarch that dominates will do
> nothing but hinder the slow advancement of female equality. Unless this
> dangerous form of government is challenged and remodeled to include a
> partnership of equal members of people who will live together in harmony,
> respecting each other's aspirations and contribution to the land, violence
> within the families, most notably female genital mutilation, around the
> world will never stop.
>
> ------- end ----------
>
> Any comments will be appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Regards,
> Moe S. Jallow
> =======================================================================
>
> ================================ Sources ==============================
>
> Abd El Hadi, Amal. "A step forward for opponents of female
> genital mutilation in Egypt." Lancet 349.9045 911 (Jan. 1997): 2pp.
> Online. Internet. 2 June 1997.
>
> Barrie, Mariama L. "Wounds that never heal." Essence 26.0011 (Mar. 1996):
> 1p. Online. Internet 2 June 1997.
>
> Black, J A, and G D Debelle. "Female genital mutilation in Britain."
> British Medical Journal (International) 31.6994 (17 June 1995): 2pp.
> Online. Internet. 7 June 1997.
>
> Hamilton, Josh. "UN condemns female circumcision." British medical Journal
> (International) 314.7088 (19 Apr. 1997): 1p. Online. Internet. 2 June
> 1997.
>
> Lerner, Sharon. "Rite or wrong?" Village Voice 43.0013 (1 Apr. 1997): 2pp.
> Online. Internet. 2 June 1997.
>
> Mackie, Gerry. "Ending footbinding and infibulation: A convection
> account." American Sociological Review 61.0006 (Dec. 1996): 2pp. Online.
> Internet. 7 June 1997.
>
> Macready, Norra. "Female genital mutilation outlawed in the United
> States." British Medical Journal (International) 313.7065 (2 Nov. 1996):
> 1pp. Online. Internet. 2 June 1997.
>
> Journal (International) 313.7065 (2 Nov. 1996): 1pp. Online.
> Internet. 2 June 1997.
>
> Socarides Alexandra. "Egypt: The end of FGM?" Ms 7.0003 (Nov. 1996): 1p.
> Online. Internet. 2 June 1997
Female circumcision is NOT in the Quran . If you can find it please tell
me the sura or verse it was quoted . Please make it clear the difference
between a cultural traditional practice AND the Islamic practice
should not be confused.
Thanks
Habib
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:53:18 -0700
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: New member
Message-ID: <344C434E.518D@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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SANG1220@aol.com wrote:
>
> Latjor, would you add phillip sowe to the bantaba, his address is
> ardopadel@aol.com
> Thanks
> Daddy SangSang,
I was in Cleveland yesterday but did not have a chance to call you.Pls
email me or call so I can update you on what happened to the Chamber and
it's closing. There is no such thing as job security anymore
Rgds and Fog new dunda
Habib
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 23:10:03 -0500
From: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: FELCHERS
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971020235114.2a2736dc@etbu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Latjor, you wrote:
"It would be worthwhile to have a discussion on the formative
years of the gambian nation. As has been mentioned, the role
that Sir. Francis Small (Pa Small), Rev. J.C. Faye, P.S. Njie,
Sir D.K. Jawara and the rest ought to be known by the
post-independence generation (myself included). This way, there
will not be room for historically inaccurate statements as
those that have been mentioned here."
When i wrote about Dawda Jawara being the primary architect of Gambia's
independence, i wasn't trying to underscore the contributions of our
notables like you mention. My response was to Jainaba and others to refrain
from parental name-calling rather than an attempt to eulogize Dawda Jawara
as the sole individual responsible for our independence. I wasn't trying to
write a thesis on Gambia's pre-independence era!
If your suggestion to open up dialogue "on the formative years of
the Gambian nation" was to help educate me about our history, then i humbly
say, it would not be necessary. Thank you for the offer though. Through my
private reading and listening to Halifa sallah (PDOIS), I have come to be
very aware of the contributions of the notables you mentioned towards our
independence.
Since you mentioned it, i would like to submit it to you that even
if i erred in the metamorphosis of our independence, i refuse to admit full
responsibility. Why? Because both me and you have trod similar ground. We
both went to Saint Augustine's High School, then to The Gambia High School.
The significance of where we obtained our secondary education is paramount
to my refusal to accept full responsibility. You will recall that in The
Gambia, the only students that studied a history of the Gambia were those
that attended "secondary technical schools." Those who attended high school,
you and myself included, never had an opportunity to learn about our
history. I remember our history books at SAHS were "World on the move," and
"People on the move." (Anybody from SAHS, help me affirm this please). Both
of these books dealt with the history of the outside world, particularly
Europe and Asia.
I have to wonder though, why is emphasis being made on only a
subliminal sentence that i made about Jawara's contributions to our
independence. The theme of my article as i mentioned, was to douse the fire
that was already building between Ebrima and Jainaba. Instead of focusing on
that, you focused on what was only mentioned in passing. So i ask, how do
you feel about Jainaba's focus on the religion of Jawara to get at Ebrima?
As Latir had warned before i jumped in, we should be objective rather than
focus on Ebrima's paternal relationship to Dawda Jawara. Do you differ on this?
Thanx again everybody. Latjor, i still remain a fervent admirer of
yours. Much respect. Peace.
It's Tamsir.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 04:27:03 -0700
From: Abdou Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
To: Gambia-l List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: List Commands
Message-ID: <344C9186.DA8F34D1@cs.columbia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi folks,
I have received various requests from list members on accessing
gambia-l archives. Our archive covers from January 31st, 1996 to
October 19th, 1997 . The discussions are divided into 90 parts.
Getting any piece of correspondence involves two steps:
(i) Send a command on line by itself to listproc@u.washington.edu to
retrieve a list of the files. The command is: index gambia-l -all
In return you will get output that looks like:
gambia-l.log9601e (1 part, 3956 bytes) -- We did it !
gambia-l.log9602a (1 part, 60055 bytes) -- Re: We did it !
gambia-l.log9602b (1 part, 7037 bytes) -- GAMBIA-L digest 1
:
:
gambia-l.log9710c (1 part, 183620 bytes) -- GAMBIA-L digest 89
gambia-l.log9710d (1 part, 299771 bytes) -- GAMBIA-L digest 90
These files are in chronological order; gambia-l.log9710d contains
the latest discussions in October of 1997.
(ii)Send a command on a line by itself to retrieve the file of
discussions that you want. The command is: get gambia-l FILENAME where
FILENAME is the name of the file such as gambia-l.log9710c.
Retrieving a file will take a long time as the archives are stored
on tape drives. Additionally be careful that you do do not swamp your
own mailbox as these files are very huge. For example, we have
generated close to 30 Megabytes of discussions which is about 40, 000
pages of hard copy [Disclaimer: these are all rough estimates] !
Among gems in the archive are snippets of the electronic version of
The Gambian Constitution. Happy hunting !
-Abdou.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 01:58:17 -0400
From: "Latir Downes-Thomas" <latir@earthlink.net>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These terrible WHITE people
Message-ID: <01bcdde6$548a5620$LocalHost@latir>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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-----Original Message-----
From: tgr@commit.gm <gambia-l@commit.gm>
> I know that this color-concept is everywhere now, and it will probably
take
> hundreds of years to forget about it.
> Maybe when everybody is fed up with it, something will happen?!
> I just know that I am fed up with my "role" in this thing and I guess even
I
> haven't experienced anything compared to some groups of people (yellow or
> black or red or green or whatever....)
I was sceptical about adding my two cents on this subject when you first
brought it up because I was not sure I understood from where you were
coming. Before I had a chance to ask, others already began responding so I
thought I would just wait and get more insight from these responses and your
subsequent replies. I am afraid this has not been the case so allow me to
ask you a question, based on your initial posting, and leave with some
comments so you too have an idea about where I am going with all this.
You wrote:
> Gambia-L.
>
> In response to among others Amadou Kabir Njie..
>
> Just a thought...
> I can very well understand that there is a need for attention and
> discussion on the faults in the western democracies to live up to
> its ideals.
> But I am actually getting a little tired of being placed in a role just
> by being a "white person".
> Since I joined Gambia-L and moved to The Gambia I have been overwhelmed
> by the continuously focus and importance gambians and other West-Africans
> put on the lack of color on my skin.
> I don't want to be classified as this or that type because of this.
> I am a human being and look at other people as human beings, and I
couldn't
> care less if they had a two meter long spotted tail!
Exactly how have "gambians and other West-Africans" continuously focused and
placed importance on "the lack of color on [your] skin"?
> I believe that to use the words US together with BLACK and then use THEM
> together with WHITE is a gross simplifying of how the world works,
capitalistic
> or otherwise.
> I can't see how it really helps in anything except sementing a to simple
and
> wrong view on how countries and governments operate.
Using "US together with BLACK" and "THEM together with WHITE" is indeed a
generalisation and simplification. While in principle it us usually wrong to
generalise in such a manner, we cannot automatically negate the norms that
society in general has created. I believe that in the majority of times when
terms like these are used in tandem, there is often some justification. I
agree with you when you say that this only helps to cement a "simple and
wrong view on how countries and governments operate" but it can be used to
explain the sentiments and actions of the respective societies, especially
in a historical context. Of course "US" may not necessarily apply to me as a
black man (I know you probably don't like that particular description :-) ),
but it can and often does to the majority of people who look like me.
> When I hear about black communities, black churches etc. in my simple mind
I
> start wondering on why they focus so strongly on the colour? Is it not
precisely
> the focus on appearance and colour to value a person what western
countries so
> grossly has been misusing?
Again these are labels that society as a whole has created long ago and thus
uses, whether we as individuals like it or not. Let's face it though, how
else can you identify a church whose congregation is overwhelmingly "black".
You have stated something to the effect that these labels will only
disappear when we as human beings stop using them. This is true but will
only happen when, for example, you can no longer find churches whose members
all share the same skin colour.
Perhaps this may be the case when society develops to a point where a black
man can relate to a white man the way say a blonde can now relate to a
brunette, or someone with long hair to another with short hair. Of course
this will only happen when the general differences amongst us disappear,
namely those cultural and economic. This, I believe, will probably never
happen. Even if it does, the same labels would only be replaced with others.
African whites and blacks would eventually be identified and, in turn, would
identify themselves as "AFRICAN" but this would only give birth to a new yet
similar type of label-based connotation.
In such a scenario, I'm sure you would probably exchange your dislike for
being regarded as "WHITE" with one for the new "EUROPEAN" term. I say this
because I'm sure you would not like to be lumped together with people just
because you live in or originate from a similar geographic location, as now
it seems you don't take to being lumped with all people who just happen to
share your skin colour.
On the same note, I ask about your experiences with "africans and West
Africans" only because it appears that perhaps, and I don't know you
personally so I can only speculate here; you might, for the first time in
your life, be experiencing life as a minority . It has its bad side now
doesn't it. At least you can rest assured that in The Gambia, when you are
referred to as Toubab, most of the time it is probably done with some
reverence albeit often with an agenda. As sad as this last fact may seem, it
sure beats being called a label that is widely used in the negative and
often with fear.
Any reactions?
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 23:17:12 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: FELCHING.
Message-ID: <19971021061712.6539.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Ebrima,
Consider this to be my last posting on this thread..unless if you come
up with more trash, in which case I'll fire back in kind!!! I need no
apologies from you, hence you should never expect one from me.
My attack is on the public figure called Mr. Jawara, the mastermind of
the economic genocide of the Gambian people for three decades. If you
feel offended by such attacks, go lick your "wounds". Gambia-l is NOT
The Gambia of the 80's...you are know in the real world!!!
Enjoy your life in exile, like thousands have during the reign of the
political prostitute!!!
Jainaba.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 23:43:36 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Obsessed with Jawara
Message-ID: <19971021064336.28597.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Musa Kebba Jawara,
Why should you be suprised for being questioned at the airport for 15
minutes???? It happens everywhere, including the good old US of A. What
do you think is gonna happen if a Libyan whose lastname is Gaddafi flies
in to JFK??? Given a VIP treatment?? Get real!!!!
Not every Gambian whose lastname is Jawara is related or cares about Mr.
Dawda Jawara...the NIA knows that quite well. With the overthrow of the
rogue regime however, the NIA have an obligation to the state to
question (not detain for hours/days unnecessarily) whoever it feels
ought to be checked out. Intelligence agents do it the world over.
If you don't like that kind of treatment, the choice is yours...not many
options though!!! Stay away!!!!!! No more red carpet
treatment!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jainaba.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 02:54:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: SANG1220@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: SANG1220@aol.com
Subject: Felchers
Message-ID: <971020193604_863149443@emout16.mail.aol.com>
Do not forget the contributions of Alhagie Garba Jahumpha. They were all in
the uk discussing Gambia's Independence. It was after that meeting that the
british made P.S Njie "Chief Minister" until elections were held which Jawara
won. So, I agree with Sainey others also had a hand in Gambia's Independence
Thanks
Daddy Sang
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 01:17:50 -0700
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: Felchers
Message-ID: <344C652E.4385@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
SANG1220@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Do not forget the contributions of Alhagie Garba Jahumpha. They were all in
> the uk discussing Gambia's Independence. It was after that meeting that the
> british made P.S Njie "Chief Minister" until elections were held which Jawara
> won. So, I agree with Sainey others also had a hand in Gambia's Independence
> Thanks
> Daddy Sangwell said
Habib
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 01:22:59 -0700
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-L@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives
Message-ID: <344C6663.364D@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Did anyone see the last B Walters program.
I was surprised to find in the USA a very similar practice to the
situation back home with men in similar situation. It seems perfectly
acceptable to the women . One man even married two sisters !!!!!
What do you think??
Habib
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:41:02 +0300
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C7=C8=E6_=DA=C8=CF=C7=E1=E1=E5?=" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: FELCHERS
Message-ID: <199710211419.LAA11405@qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Tamsir,
I hate to get involved in this sqabble but I nonetheless want to make a
comment on two of the points you raised.
You are absolutely correct in observing that our elite schools don't teach
Gambian History,but that cannot be an excuse for not knowing the history of
your country,for the simple reason that the best Gambian historians of
Gambia are graduates of those very same schools that do not teach the
history of our nation.Most of us who have gone through those schools know
how remote and irrelevant much of what we were exposed to was,but we have
always known how to get around those limitations and taught ourselves
things that have meaning for our lives.
I think your attempt to give 'diplomatic immunity' to Ebrima's father will
ultimately fail.Because whereas in Gambian culture,we without question
refrain from making comments or being irreverent with the parents of our
friends and colleagues,Ebrima's father is not just another father.And
whereas we will not blame Ebrima for what his father did or did not do to
our country,we will strenously resist any attempt to sanitize his father's
records simply because his son is a friend and colleague of ours on this
list.
Regards Bassss!
----------
> From: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: FELCHERS
> Date: 21 ÇßÊĉÈÑ, 1997 07:10 Ġ
>
> Latjor, you wrote:
> "It would be worthwhile to have a discussion on the formative
> years of the gambian nation. As has been mentioned, the role
> that Sir. Francis Small (Pa Small), Rev. J.C. Faye, P.S. Njie,
> Sir D.K. Jawara and the rest ought to be known by the
> post-independence generation (myself included). This way, there
> will not be room for historically inaccurate statements as
> those that have been mentioned here."
>
> When i wrote about Dawda Jawara being the primary architect of
Gambia's
> independence, i wasn't trying to underscore the contributions of our
> notables like you mention. My response was to Jainaba and others to
refrain
> from parental name-calling rather than an attempt to eulogize Dawda
Jawara
> as the sole individual responsible for our independence. I wasn't trying
to
> write a thesis on Gambia's pre-independence era!
> If your suggestion to open up dialogue "on the formative years of
> the Gambian nation" was to help educate me about our history, then i
humbly
> say, it would not be necessary. Thank you for the offer though. Through
my
> private reading and listening to Halifa sallah (PDOIS), I have come to be
> very aware of the contributions of the notables you mentioned towards our
> independence.
> Since you mentioned it, i would like to submit it to you that
even
> if i erred in the metamorphosis of our independence, i refuse to admit
full
> responsibility. Why? Because both me and you have trod similar ground. We
> both went to Saint Augustine's High School, then to The Gambia High
School.
> The significance of where we obtained our secondary education is
paramount
> to my refusal to accept full responsibility. You will recall that in The
> Gambia, the only students that studied a history of the Gambia were those
> that attended "secondary technical schools." Those who attended high
school,
> you and myself included, never had an opportunity to learn about our
> history. I remember our history books at SAHS were "World on the move,"
and
> "People on the move." (Anybody from SAHS, help me affirm this please).
Both
> of these books dealt with the history of the outside world, particularly
> Europe and Asia.
> I have to wonder though, why is emphasis being made on only a
> subliminal sentence that i made about Jawara's contributions to our
> independence. The theme of my article as i mentioned, was to douse the
fire
> that was already building between Ebrima and Jainaba. Instead of focusing
on
> that, you focused on what was only mentioned in passing. So i ask, how do
> you feel about Jainaba's focus on the religion of Jawara to get at
Ebrima?
> As Latir had warned before i jumped in, we should be objective rather
than
> focus on Ebrima's paternal relationship to Dawda Jawara. Do you differ on
this?
> Thanx again everybody. Latjor, i still remain a fervent admirer
of
> yours. Much respect. Peace.
> It's Tamsir.
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:29:27 +2000
From: mmjeng@image.dk
To: Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM
Cc: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Black Inventors
Message-ID: <199710210831.KAA26204@mail.image.dk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:10:36 -0700 (PDT)
> Reply-to: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
> From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Black Inventors
> Hi Ler's,
>
> Somebody requested for this info but I couldn't remember who did thus my posting
> to the whole group.
>
>
> regards,
>
> sarian
>
It was me who requested it. Thank you very much.
Greetings
Matarr M. Jeng.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:31:46 +2000
From: mmjeng@image.dk
To: Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM
Cc: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Black Inventors
Message-ID: <199710210933.LAA08664@mail.image.dk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:10:36 -0700 (PDT)
> Reply-to: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
> From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Black Inventors
> Hi Ler's,
>
> Somebody requested for this info but I couldn't remember who did thus my posting
> to the whole group.
>
>
> regards,
>
> sarian
Sarian,
I just found out that it was purchasing a book that has a list of all
the names of the black investors that I was intrested in. So it was
somebody else and not me who requested the info you posted.
All the same thank you very much once again.
Greetings
Matarr M. Jeng.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:08:49 +0100 (BST)
From: Sainey Keita <S.Keita@reading.ac.uk>
To: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Black Inventors
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971021105349.15156A-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi Sarian,
Thanks for your list of black inventors. What it really shows is the
devastating blow Africa has suffered as a result of the slave trade.
Africa would have been a super power by now if it were not for this
trade.
Thanks
Sainey.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:04:58 +0100 (BST)
From: Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
To: Gambia Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Jawara.
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971021114906.13019B-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
Jainaba, may I say that I am not at all offended. And alas, I do not have
any wounds to lick. You are entitled to your opinions, as I am sure I am.
If calling my Dad names is constructive, then so be it. I would have
thought that you would focus on the issue at hand, rather than hide behind
petty remarks. Do I sense a hint of envy, jealousy, hatred? Do you have a
chip on your shoulder? My father governed The Gambia for a long time. That
is a fact. I don't give a toss what you think about him. I think history
will be the judge of him.
I still do want to take you out. The more I read your excellent writings,
the more my passion for you rises. Please accept my offer.
With all my love,
Your humble servant,
Ebs.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:50:11 +0100
From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
Message-ID: <B0000011782@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit
Bass,
I can only but add...bravo..and congrats on a well written piece..it says
it all and I think Torstein is very well-intentioned and I must say that if
I were him, I would be confused by the multiple signals that emanate from
our people..the different categories (you mentioned)..I am sure Tors is
most probably a Bob Marley fan..to many of us..Marley was a prophet for
African peoples...somehow he brought a message of hope, of peace and of
love not only for our socially and mentally oppressed people but all
people...maybe that is why he meant so much to so many of us..but also
remember though he had a lot of white fans, Marley spoke first a black
nationalist anthem and then peace and love..or what i say say..that unless
we Africans reconcile centuries of humiliation and victimisation...not only
through western hands but also arabs, hittites?? etc..we will not find
peace and without that internal peace..how can we exist in peace with
others..anyway my point is that most whites are decent and friendly and not
responsible for our plight..but that does not vary our reality..which is
culmination of over 2000 years of hell on earth and of seeing ourselves
through the eyes of the perpetrators of our plight..that only is reason
enough why it cannot be easy to explain, read or treat in a mere 30/40
years but again as you rightly surmised..it is a continuing search and our
friends of all races will be part of the solution...
I did not want to say so much but I think everyone can get my drift..any
progressive black or african has to nationalistic..a downtrodden people
always identify more...Hitler mostly gave the Jews cohesion or unity, Nazi
occupation finalised the nation-making process of Europe etc..so our
nationalism is not really anti-white or western or anyone but
self-realization as a people
so much for now and Bass..great article..keep up the good work UP there..
pmj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:38:06 +0100 (BST)
From: Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
To: Gambia Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: FELCHED.
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971021131040.9942A-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
JAWARA, Alhagi Sir Dawda kairaba, Kt 1966; Hon. Grand Cross of the Order
of Saint Michael and Saint George (England), 1974; Grand Master, Order of
the Republic of The Gambia, 1972; President of the Republic of The Gambia
1970-94; Vice President of the Senegambia Confederation 1982-89; b.
Barajally, MacCarthy Island Division, 16 May 1924. Educ: Muslim primary
sch and Methodist Boys Grammar Sch. Bathurst. Achimota College (Vet
School); Glasgow Univ. FRCVS 1988 (MRCVS 1953); Dipl in Tropical Vet.
Med., Edinburgh, 1957. Veterinary Officer for The Gambia Govt., 1954-57,
Principal Vet. Officer, 1957-60. Leader of People's Progressive Party
(formerly Protectorate People's Party), The Gambia, 1960; Min of Educ,
1960-61; Premier, 1962-63; Prime Minister, 1963-70. Chairman: Permanent
Inter State Cttee for Drought in the Sahel, 1977-79; Organisation pour la
Mise en Valeur du Fleuve Gambie conf., Heads of State of Govt, 1987-88,
Authy of Heads of State and Govt, Economic Community of West African
States, 1988-89. Patron, Commonwealth Vet. Assoc., 1967-. Hon. LLD Ife,
1978; Hon. DSc Colorado State Univ., USA 1986. Peutinger Gold Medal,
Peutinger-Collegium, Munich, 1979; Agricola Medal, FAO, Rome, 1980. Grand
Cross, Order of Cedar of lebanon, 1966; Nat. Order of Rep of Senegal,
1967; Order of Precipitous Clouds of China (Taiwan), 1968; Nat. Order of
Rep of Guinea, 1973; Grand Cordon of Most Venerable Order of Knighthood,
Pioneers of Liberia, 1968; Grand Comdr, Nat. Order of Fed Rep of Nigeria,
1970; Comdr of Golden Ark (Netherlands), 1979; Grand Gwanghwa Medal of
Order of Diplomatic Service (Rep of Korea), 1974; Nishan-i-Pakistan
(Pakistan), 1984; Grand Order of Nat. Merit, Islamic Rep of Mauritania,
1992; Grand Comdr, Nat. Order of REp of Portugal, 1993. Recreations: golf,
gardening, sailing.
The above was taken from:
Who's Who 1997, A & C Black, London, 1997.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:54:09 +0100
From: Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971021135409.008c2950@golf.uib.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bass!
Once again, a brilliant analysis. May I, please, add with a short poem that
happens to be one of my favorites. BTW, keep up the good work down there.
YOU AND YOURSELF (Mutabaruka, 1991)
-----------------------------------
you
please with yourself
for freein yourself
after seein yourself
in a world by yourself
not knowin yourself
to question yourself
about yourself
that enslaved
you
-----------------------------------
Regards,
Abdou Oujimai
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:15:39 +0000
From: S Njie <S.Njie@commonwealth.int>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: (Fwd) C'Wealth Heads og Govt meeting On-Line
Message-ID: <F081E13001D23A00@commonwealth.int>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-disposition: inline
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Forwarded message:
From: Self <QH/NjieS.MTSD.COMSEC>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.ed
Subject: C'Wealth Heads og Govt meeting On-Line
Reply-to: Njies@Comsec
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:48:34
List Members,
In preperation for the forthcoming Commonwealth
Heads of Government Meeting ( CHOGM) to be held
in Edinburgh Scotland, The Commonwealth
Secretariat and the British Foreign and
Commonwealth Office have launched a website at :
http://www.chogm97/
for the Commonwealth Summit which will take place
from 24-27 October 1997.
List members might wish to browse through the
website to have an insight into some of the issues to
be dealt with at the Summit. I believe there will be a
mention of Gambia's return to democracy; Nigeria's
suspension and the Commonwealth position on
Sierra Leone.
S.G.Njie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:16:56 +0000
From: S Njie <S.Njie@commonwealth.int>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: (Fwd) C'Wealth Heads of Govt meeting On-Line
Message-ID: <F881E13001D23A00@commonwealth.int>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-disposition: inline
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: Self
<QH/NjieS.MTSD.COMSEC>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.ed
Subject: C'Wealth Heads og Govt
meeting On-Line
Reply-to: Njies@Comsec
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:48:34
List Members,
In preperation for the forthcoming
Commonwealth
Heads of Government Meeting (
CHOGM) to be held
in Edinburgh Scotland, The
Commonwealth
Secretariat and the British Foreign and
Commonwealth Office have launched a
website at :
http://www.chogm97/
for the Commonwealth Summit which will
take place
from 24-27 October 1997.
List members might wish to browse
through the
website to have an insight into some of
the issues to
be dealt with at the Summit. I believe
there will be a
mention of Gambia's return to democracy;
Nigeria's
suspension and the Commonwealth
position on
Sierra Leone.
S.G.Njie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:45:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
To: Gambia <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These terrible WHITE people (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9710211000.A13775-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I would like to say that I agree with what Latir had to say.
As he pointed out, being called a toubab is not, most of the time I
believe, used in a negative sense at home. I think that it's a describtion
and I don't think that there's anything wrong with it because it is what
one is: black, white, brown etc. In a predominantly black society (The
Gambia), the easiest way to identify Torstein is to call him a Toubab
(white), since there aren't too many around (not as much as black people,
anyway). Nowadays, it seems people get upset over a lot of things (this
is probably too much of a generalisation, but I think it gets my point
across). Blonds don't want to be called blonds " I do have a name you
know", some say, whites don't wanna be called whites (maybe cause they
feel it puts them in the same circles as their ancestors)
blacks don't wanna be called blacks( maybe cause it links them to all the
negativity connected with being black ie drugs, violenceetc), the list goes
on. But, as a form
of identification, these same people wanna be called by their names,
nationality etc. which to me is just another form of identity. Some
Nigerians I've met here don't wanna be called Nigerians, they prefer
being called black. Which is fine, except that if they were at home, they
probably be called Nigerians. Actually, I've found that people here at
my university, in
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada (predominantly white...about 5,000 students
50 of whom are black) don't like describing black people as black
which I find hilarious, because it is what they are. I have a friend
(white, and I'm sorry is some don't like this description because that is
what she
is,....a white person) who was trying to describe a person to me. She
went on
and on about she's petite, she has really short hair which is kinda curly
etc. I kept giving her blank stares until she mentioned some event the
girl was at and I said "oh!! the black girl" with triumph on my face. She
was red and when I asked her why, she said she thought I would think her
racist if she used the word black in connection with the describtion. All
I could of saying is that "but that is what she is!!". My point, being
called black or white is not a bad thing esp if one person of one race in
a society dominated by another race, it just makes life easier,
description wise. My thoughts. Any comments???? sorry it's long.
Ancha.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:59:13 +0300
From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
Message-ID: <199710212056.RAA18222@qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My good friend!
Thanks for the poem.I will write this one down! And keep the good work
down there.
Regards Bassss!
----------
> From: Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 4:54 PM
>
> Bass!
>
> Once again, a brilliant analysis. May I, please, add with a short poem
that
> happens to be one of my favorites. BTW, keep up the good work down there.
>
> YOU AND YOURSELF (Mutabaruka, 1991)
> -----------------------------------
>
> you
> please with yourself
> for freein yourself
> after seein yourself
> in a world by yourself
> not knowin yourself
> to question yourself
> about yourself
> that enslaved
> you
> -----------------------------------
>
> Regards,
> Abdou Oujimai
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:08:36 +0300
From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
Message-ID: <199710212106.SAA19743@qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mr.Jallow!
I am touched.All of you out there (black and white) keep up the good
work down there.And thanks to you Mr.Jallow!
Regards Bassss!
----------
> From: pmj@commit.gm <gambia-l@commit.gm>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 11:50 AM
>
> Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
> via Commit
>
>
> Bass,
> I can only but add...bravo..and congrats on a well written piece....
> pmj
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:26:36 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New member
Message-ID: <19971021162718.AAA19944@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Greetings:
Aina Wright has been added to the list. Welcome to our banata
and please send a brief introduction of yourself to our
group. Our address is: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Momodou Camara
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:33:14 -0400
From: Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com>
To: "'GAMBIA-L@U.WASHINGTON.EDU'" <GAMBIA-L@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Cc: "'ACS@AOL.COM'" <ACS@aol.com>
Subject: FW: Cancer Patient
Message-ID: <C69DB1B2BFFBCF11B5D300000000000152DD3F@Cry1.prc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
>
> > No comedy here. It's about a seven year old girl with cancer.
> > Read it and pass it on to as many people that you can.
> > Occasionally we get to use this medium for some actual good,
> > rather than trading barbs across the waves. And once in a while
> > things like this bring us back to reality, allowing us to count
> > ourselves
> > lucky in life. Let's put our network to work here!
> > It will only take you a second to send this message.
> > ***********************************************************
> > JESSICA MYDEK IS SEVEN YEARS OLD AND IS SUFFERING FROM AN
> > ACUTE AND VERY RARE CASE OF CEREBRAL CARCINOMA. THIS
> > CONDITION CAUSES SEVERE MALIGNANT BRAIN TUMORS AND IS A
> > TERMINAL ILLNESS. THE DOCTORS HAVE GIVEN HER SIX MONTHS TO
> > LIVE. AS PART OF HER DYING WISH, SHE WANTED TO START A
> > CHAIN LETTER TO INFORM PEOPLE OF THIS CONDITION AND TO SEND
> > PEOPLE THE MESSAGE TO LIVE LIFE TO THE FULLEST AND ENJOY
> > EVERY MOMENT, A CHANCE THAT SHE WILL NEVER HAVE.
> > FURTHERMORE, THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY AND SEVERAL
> > CORPORATE SPONSORS HAVE AGREED TO DONATE THREE CENTS
> > TOWARD CONTINUING CANCER RESEARCH FOR EVERY NEW PERSON
> > THAT GETS FORWARDED THIS MESSAGE. PLEASE GIVE JESSICA AND
> > ALL CANCER VICTIMS A CHANCE. ADD ACS@AOL.COM TO THE LIST
> > OF PEOPLE THAT YOU SEND THIS TO SO THAT THE AMERICAN
> > CANCER SOCIETY WILL BE ABLE TO CALCULATE HOW MANY
> > PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN THIS.
> > IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS, SEND THEM TO THE AMERICAN
> > CANCER SOCIETY AT ACS@AOL.COM Three cents for every person
> > that receives this letter turns out to be a lot of money considering
> > how
> > many people will get this letter and how many people they, in turn,
> > pass
> > it on to. Please go ahead and forward it to whoever you know- it
> > really
> > doesn't take much to helpout.
> > >>>>> ******************************************** Jean Ann
> > >>>>> Linney, Ph.D
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:42:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives
Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9710211142.4006.sarian@groucho>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-MD5: N4p9HzEVMXhrlRur1QrbZA==
Hi Habib,
CORRECTION! Say some women not all, cause I'm certainly not interested nor
beleive in this sort of practice/behavior.
cheers,
sarian
> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 01:22:59 -0700
> From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-To: gambia-L@u.washington.edu
> X-Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Did anyone see the last B Walters program.
> I was surprised to find in the USA a very similar practice to the
> situation back home with men in similar situation. It seems perfectly
> acceptable to the women . One man even married two sisters !!!!!
> What do you think??
> Habib
------------------------------
|
|
|
Momodou
Denmark
11635 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 15:44:27
|
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:07:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: MJagana@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: Black Inventors
Message-ID: <971021150539_1993880633@emout01.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-10-21 08:25:20 EDT, S.Keita@reading.ac.uk writes:
<< Africa would have been a super power by now if it were not for this
trade.
>>
Dear Keita,
I think we us Africans have lost more during the post independance era than
from slave trade. A lot of natural resources and human resources have been
lost during the last 50 years than the whole time of slave trade.
African leaders have engaged in great misappropriations of funds and
corruption in this period. Which has contributed to the fact we as a
continent cannot be a world power.
Based on the population alone, Africa consume more tonnage per head than we
make or produce. To change this cause will require a lot of investment in
development projects that will lead to a great and a better educated human
resource.
Take the explain of Ivory Coast, and their former president who spend about
$100m to biuld a church, whilst down the road there are so many poor
illiterates who cannot even read a phrase from the bible.
I believe these huge capital expenditures that do not contribute to the
national wealth are nothing but waste.
Such waste will never make Africa a suoer power or a world power, untill we
get our acts together.
MOMODOU JAGANA
THE MIND IS AN ENDANGERED SPECIES
PLEASE KEEP IT ALIVE
READ A BOOK
******************************************************************************
********************
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: S.Keita@reading.ac.uk (Sainey Keita)
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Reply-to: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu (The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List)
Date: 97-10-21 08:25:20 EDT
Hi Sarian,
Thanks for your list of black inventors. What it really shows is the
devastating blow Africa has suffered as a result of the slave trade.
Africa would have been a super power by now if it were not for this
trade.
Thanks
Sainey.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 23:18:17 -0700
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
Message-ID: <344D9AA9.7747@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Bass!
I have to say "WOW"! Your piece was really nice. Since I joined
Gambia-l, I have noticed that you have basically sent short comments.
Maybe we need to provoke you more into writing long and engaged posts.
I would like to add another perspective to the colour issue. It is the
fact that it goes deeper than mere colour. It boils down to the issue of
privilege. The white people are a minority of the world=B4s population ye=
t
they control most of the world=B4s resources. This is why they have built=
arsenal upon arsenal of destructive weapons - to maintain that
privilege. This is why America had plans to invade the Middle Eastern
countries during the Middle East oil crisis if the oil embargo had posed
a serious threat to America=B4s economy. So no matter how the colour issu=
e
offends Torstein, I am sorry to say that the realities of the world
would make it impossible for the issue to just evaporate. The darker
peoples of the world would continue to strive to get a better share of
the world=B4s resources whilst the white people would continue to strive
to maintain their privilege by all means necessary.
The issue of colour privilege is played even in our own countries. When
we come to Europe, America, Australia etc., we push and shove to get
corners in some ghetto whilst when white people go to Africa they live
in our Fajaras, Kotus etc. and have more privileges than we do. If I
were to have a fight with a white person in Europe, I would probably be
assumed to have caused the trouble in the first place. If Torstein were
to have a fight with a Gambian in Gambia, I bet the police would beat
the Gambian before even finding out who is right and who is wrong. So
you see Torstein, the issue of colour cannot simply be wished away.
Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Bassirou Dodou Drammeh wrote:
> =
> Torstein!
> Many people have contributed either their Pennies or Dalasis or=
Kroners to
> this Racial debate,so I thought that I also should contribute my Couple=
of
> RIYALS in it.Experience has taught us on this list that whenever a give=
n
> subject refuses to go away,that may be a sign that such a subject needs=
to
> be really discussed in a much more balanced and serious manner.
> =
> Well,I need not remind you here - you must know by now - that, in
> principle, the Gambia-L,as an instituition,condemns and infact always
> successfully shouts down anyone who tries to engage in verbal savagery
> based on race.So,that being the case,it cannot be responsible and shoul=
d
> not have to apologize everytime a new member or a "hardliner" gets out =
of
> control racially.So,I will not talk about the List,but rather about Gam=
bian
> and Black attitude in general towards Whites and Whiteness and White
> Culture.
> =
> The arguments you are putting forward are fundamentally correct,but you=
> cannot stretch them too much,else you would run the risk of confusing t=
he
> fantastic Ideal (how the world should have worked) with the brutal real=
ity
> of how it actually is out there in 1997.
> =
> If I recall correctly what you wrote in your letter of introduction to =
this
> list,Gambia is the first black country you have ever lived and worked i=
n
> and that your stay there is barely one year,and the added fact that you=
> come from a country that was not in any real sense involved in the colo=
nial
> MISadventures of Black Africa would make it even much more difficult fo=
r
> you to understand the black peoples very complex attitudes towards Whi=
tes
> and White Culture.Of course,we are not saying that just because you are=
> doing business in the Gambia,you need to read some Gambian History.Not =
that
> you will not benefit from that in your dealings with the Gambians,but s=
ince
> most Gambians themselves don't know much about Gambian history,not sayi=
nfg
> anything about black history in general,it would be totally unfair to
> require that of foreigners who just happened to come there to run a
> business.But at the risk of contradicting myself,I would suggest that y=
ou
> do just that,since it would help you answer a lot of the questions you =
find
> baffling with regards to black attitudes towards whites.Or better
> still,maybe you should read Edward Said's Classic,CULTURE and IMPERIALI=
SM.
> =
> Torstein,for the sake of simplicity,I would posit that there are two
> categories of Gambians as far as attitudes towards Whites are concerned=
=2EThe
> Westernized Minority,the ones exposed to the Western Schooling System
> sufficiently enough to enable them to understand how western culture wo=
rks
> and how it deals with non-Western cultures and peoples,and the
> non-westernized Majority,which includes not only those who have never
> attended the western schooling system before,but also some who have bee=
n to
> school but who know almost nothing about western culture beyond the Thr=
ee
> R,s (Reading,Riting,Rithmetic),the good news for someone like you,a whi=
te
> man,living in the Gambia is that most of this latter category
> like,love,respect and admire white people and white lifestyle and most =
of
> them believe that they are clean,healthy,wealthy and very wise;so,maybe=
> their treatment of a white living among them is terribly inconveniencin=
g
> and irritating sometime,but definitely not of the racial hatred type th=
at
> many of us have experienced at first hand so very much in white
> societies.As for the
> first category,the ones that are really familiar with Western culture t=
hat
> in turn can be divided into basically three groups:1) The ones that acc=
ept
> western values wholesale and believe that the cure for the present econ=
omic
> and social dysfunction of black societies lies in the total replacement=
of
> black instituitions and values with Western ones. 2) The liberals, that=
> believe that there are indeed lots of elements in Western culture that =
can
> be profoundly helpful if incorporated in a proper manner into black
> instituitions.3) The rejectionists,"the hardliners" who believe that th=
e
> only solution to our miseries is to relclaim our black heritage in its=
> totality and thus reject the western solutions .
> =
> Coming back to the attitude of the vast majority of Gambians towards
> Whites,namely, the second category,we have to understand here that such=
an
> attitude came about as a direct result of three hundred years of well
> orchestrated facade maintained by the successive colonial administrato=
rs
> in
> which the myth of the whiteman as powerful,knowledgeable and even
> invincible was carefully cultivated into the popular imagination of the=
> colonized peoples,Gambians in this case.The creation of such a myth was=
> done with and by all the means necessary,otherwise it would have been
> impossible for a couple of hundred white men and their wives and childr=
en
> to rule over hundreds of
> thousands of black people some ten thousand kilometers away from the Un=
ited
> kingdom.The brutalities used to deal with anyone or any group that dare=
d to
> challenge that myth are beyond the scope of this article.The problem wi=
th
> myths is that they have a very funny way of representing reality for a
> people who have no other means of knowing facts that could destroy thos=
e
> myths.And since, most Gambians are still illiterate or just terribly ba=
dly
> educated,the myths about white people that were so carefully cultivated=
by
> the British Colonial Machine into our popular consciousness are very mu=
ch
> alive and kicking.Professor Shekh Anta Diop had taught us that even tho=
ugh
> the sacrifices we made, in terms of blood and lives in our struggle to =
end
> the physical occupation of our lands and resources by whites,are
> immense,that would be nothing compared to the time ,energy and effort
> required to Undo the MINDSET,the psychology,the general black inferiori=
ty
> complex towards anything that has the predicate called WHITE.So,given
> Diopian analysis,it is not at all surprising that after thirty somethin=
g
> years of physical Independence from Britain, very many urban Gambian wo=
men
> still confuse female beauty with whiteness and they value that colour t=
o
> the
> extent of using chemicals on their skins that would help kill the very
> stuff,Melanin,that make them black.To their distorted minds and logic,i=
t is
> the blackness of their skin that prevents them from being beautiful,and=
> interestingly enough many Gambian men seem to agree with them in their=
> that
> reasoning, since a significant number of them constantly keep on
> terrorising
> our darker skinned women with the threat of loving or marrying lighter
> skinned women - a threat that has on numerous occasions had the devasta=
ting
> effect of pushing some who would otherwise not have ventured into such =
a
> moral insanity,such a self-mutilation,such an insult of the self and
> dignity of black humanity!
> =
> So,Mr.Torstein,if I were a blond from somewhere in Scandanavia visiting=
a
> black country like Gambia,there would be nothing that could prevent me =
from
> thinking loudly to myself:" But what the hell is wrong with these peopl=
e?!
> All of them are black and almost all of them are constantly harping on =
and
> singing the praises of blackness,and yet there is very little evidence =
in
> their day to day behaviour that seems to suggest that they indeed belie=
ve
> in what they are so tirelessly talking about: their pride in their
> blackness!"
> But then again, first impressions could be very dangerously deceptive,=
and
> judging a people for
> their present shortcomings and failures without giving any thought to t=
heir
> past cannot be a terribly fair appraisal.The fact is that,sometimes the=
> sheer weight of the history of a people is just too heavy a burden to b=
e
> borne by just one generation,and Gambia,as part of the once colonized b=
lack
> humanity has a very heavy and loaded history;and the weightiness of our=
> history is made much more complicated by our shocking incapacity to pro=
duce
> ,since our so-called physical independence ,the kind of great ,good,sin=
cere
> and patriotic leaders that are so easily and abundantly available to ot=
her
> societies whose skin colours are different from our own;baffling,don't =
you
> think?
> =
> Mr.Torstein,you being the kind of very genuinely nice guy you sound to =
be
> like,it cannot be very difficult for you to understand how very trouble=
d
> and frustrated we must feel like:after three and a half decades of
> self-rule,our learnig instituitions have totally failed to produce for =
us
> even one good leader who does not have at the back of his mind some wh=
ite
> dreams that eventually translates itself into defrauding our already
> impoverished and tired masses;after three and a half decades of black
> self-rule, many of our women still believe that the colour of beauty is=
> white;after three and a half decades of self-rule,we still cannot feed
> ourselves and are addicted to earning our living by annually begging fr=
om
> international donors;after three and a half decades of self-rule, we st=
ill
> cannot guarantee a 24-hour electricity supply for just our cities and
> towns.This list could go on and on.But in a nutshell,we the black peopl=
es
> have
> still unfortunately not been able to find the right formula that would
> enable us to
> build a prosperous and dignified society that would neither beg nor ste=
al
> nor be ashamed of its colour and heritage.But, of course,the wheel of
> progress never
> stops,and our failure today does not mean that we will not find the mag=
ic
> solution some day in the future;and when that great day arrives,that wi=
ll
> be the day that blackness will not equal failure,to political
> chaos, to social dysfunction,to intolerance,to dictatorship,to bigotry =
and
> to senseless violence.But until such a day actually arrives,and it will=
> arrive,we cannot afford not to sing the praises of our colour many time=
s
> enough to make sure that its basic message,the greatness of the black
> people, that was lost on the past generation will eventually get throug=
h to
> the coming ones.So,to conclude,let us listen to one of the giants of Bl=
ack
> Poetry,AIME CESAIRE:
> =
> "But the work of man is only just begining
> and it remains to man to conquer all
> ` the violence entrenched in the recess of his passion.
> =
> And no race posseses the monopoly of beauty,
> of intelligence,of force,and there
> is a place for all at the rendevous of victory"
> =
> Regards Bassss!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:30:00 -0700
From: Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>,
cheikh@cse.bridgeport.edu
Subject: New Member
Message-ID: <344D4908.8A21FB99@cse.bridgeport.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi List Managers,
Could you please add my friend to the list. His email address is
cheikh@cse.bridgeport.edu. Thanks
Anna
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:38:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ebrima Sall <ebrima.sall@yale.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: "Give A Book" : just an idea
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.94.971021160932.6734E-100000@morpheus.cis.yale.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Folks,
I've been toying with an idea, and I want to get your views on it.
I was thinking that we could launch a campaign for getting books for the
University of Gambia and/or for the Gambia National Library. This would be
very simple: urging all those who can do so to send at least one book to
to the University Library, or to the National Library. Something like a : "Give A
Book" campaign.
We all know how important documentation is to any university, not to say
to a country. And I know from my experience with CODESRIA that
access to good documentation is one of the main problems facing
academic and other institutions of learning in Africa today.
In a private exchange of e-mails a few weeks ago, Katim and
I were saying how rich American universities are, when it
comes to documentation, and Katim was advising that I use my stint at Yale to make
the most of what that university has to offer in that regard (I hope Katim
does not mind my sharing this piece of advice with list members).
I think it will require much more than donations of a couple of books by
Gambians and "Gambianists" to develop the resources of the University of
Gambia into something significant. But if each one of us was to buy
at least one book that we think is important, or relevant to what
people in The Gambia are working on or may be interested in, and send it
to the University or National Library, I think the gesture would be
important, and it may help in improving, somewhat, the quality of the
documentation available to Gambian students and researchers based in the
country.
Those who can buy and send more than one book can obviously do so. The
campaign would also not be restricted to Gambians, or to individuals:
anybody who can persuade anybody else to donate books to The Gambia, or
get an institution based anywhere in the world to give books or related
materials for the libraries, as part of this campaign, would be encouraged
to do so.
I have also always been wondering why people writing masters or
PhD dissertations on Gambia, or on issues that Gambians might be
interested in, do not always donate at least one copy of their work to the
National Library. This applies to those who write books. I once asked the
Chief Librarian (or whatever she is called) of the National Library why
she is not trying to get people writing dissertations on Gambia to send
her copies of their work for the Library. Her answer was something
like: she had tried but did not succeed. Anyway, I think this would be a good way to get knowledge generated in an
area somehow connected with the Gambia to be ploughed back into the
country.
Books to be sent can be of any discipline or subject of relevance
(or, let's say, of interest, or potential interest to Gambians). And,
as stated above, those who have not written dissertations or are not in
academia can simply buy any book they find important or interesting for
people in The Gambia, on any subject--from physics to
philosophy and music--and send it. The books could reference books, text
books, essays, etc. The exercise could be repeated every year, say at
about the time that the adademic year begins, i.e. September-October. As
time goes on, we could be setting targets of, say, sending such and such a
number of books, of this or that type, and related material, to this or
that institution, reaching such and such a number of students, teachers,
trainers, and other interested readers.
And so forth and so on....
For the campaign (if it ever gets off the ground) to be effective, we
would have to prepare it well--get the addresses of the University
Library, and the National Library, get in touch with the people there,
etc. If we can get to know which books are most needed, that would also be good.
I guess this would be something a structure like the Education Committee
could do, with the assistance of list members. The whole thing would
require some coordination, and we should be able to keep track of what is
going on in the broad framework of the campaign...
Please let me know whether all this makes sense. I have been struggling
with the idea for some time. And then I mentioned it to Katim, Latjor,
Momodou, Amadou, Sam and a few other friends, some some of whom succeeded in making
me believe that it is not as crazy an idea as I tend to think it is, thus
giving me the courage (!?!) to send it out to you all!
So, I will listen to hear from you. I am sure many of you have much better
ideas!!!
Have a nice evening.
Ebrima.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:41:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New Member
Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9710211441.24182.sarian@groucho>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-MD5: oJFu6WTtWG6wFiM67Qa3Aw==
Anna,
It would be best to tell us who we're adding e.g. John Doe. Email address only
doesn't suffice. I take it hes Cheikh but last name no clue. Please provide his
full name so we can add him.
regards,
sarian
> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:30:00 -0700
> From: Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: New Member
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>, cheikh@cse.bridgeport.edu
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Hi List Managers,
> Could you please add my friend to the list. His email address is
> cheikh@cse.bridgeport.edu. Thanks
>
> Anna
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:18:45 PDT
From: "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: commendations>>>>>>
Message-ID: <19971021221846.11321.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Mr buharry gassama, you wrote....
>Hi
>Tamsir,
> I must say that you put forth your argument brilliantly. However,
I>have to side with Latjor and Ebrima Sall. A military solution to
the>Casamance issue would not be a viable solution.
*************
I could never have put it better. it seemed as if you read
my mind. we were on the same wavelength. i was shocked to see
mr tamsir draw that parrarell between the american civil war
and the Casamance situation. i was contemplating my reply when
i clicked on yours. VOILA!!!!!!! I AGREE so much with you.
Mba'ding gambiankooli, isn't there enough war and strife in our
lands yet?? i just cannot simply understand sometimes
why we must advocate for military "solution". who gains and who
looses in these conflicts? do we worry about the hundreds or
thousands of civil innocent lives that can be lost in them? a
war is definitely not the solution in casamance, i don't care
where else it might have worked. Somebody on this list alluded
to the Senghore regime's political blunder at the eve of
independence. did casamance ever agree to be merged with senegal
to become one nation as southern states did when America gained
her independence from arbitrary britain? if they never did, how
then can we justify military means as a solution? don't get me
wrong. i don't condemn taking up arms when neccessary to defend
one's freedom and sovereignty. there must be cohesion and
peaceful co-existence. but whose cohesion? must we allow colonial
dictates to still run us? can't we find other
solutions......could all this not be simply avoided? had
senghore only listened to the words of Diamaconde (i would like
to hear them again myself, or see them if anyone knows where
to find them). Senghore knew that the gambia was more
intergratable with senegal than Casamance would ever be. he
faile in his attempt to get us and settled for the Casa.
this brings up something to my mind... when the senegambian
confederation broke up, PDOIS 'S criticism of jawara surprised me.
i though they should have known better. Diouf suceeeded in what
his mentor failed Senegal was virtually ruling the gambia with
the agreement (in the conf. constitution) that only the Senegalese
head of state could be the cofederation leader. i agree jawara
had his interests in mind when he negotiated with Diouf to
restore him. when he finally amnaged to undo his error i placing
the gambia in the hands of senegal, PDOIS should have given
him credit. just because of that, i became cynnical of their
teachings.........am i running off?? maybe i should pursue that
some other time.
****************************
i was also shocked when i read the postings giving ? jawara all
the credit for our independence. i do not know all the facts
concerning his contributions and those of others but i do know
that others were there too. i was so glad when p.s. njie and
some others were pointed out as contributors too. jawara did a
great job, but he failed us and himself when he got caught up
in the day to day (some say) mal-administration of our nation.
just as Yahya was so jubilatingly commendable in bloodlessly
ousting the "dirimocrats", he has also failed and has become one
himself. he had a chance to be a great hero and example, if
he only did not become greedy and got caught up in the thirst
for power and more.
*********************
i also wish to commend the "peepers" as i am a sort myself.
no disrespect to anyone. i just wish to make it known that if
there were no peepers on this list, my e-mail account would
be shut down or the computer or server would go berseek,
crazy.. nuts.. overloaded**>>>??//?????.. over the course of 4
days that i didn't touch my mail, i had over a hundred and
fifty messages waiting for me. i have still not gone through
all yet.
*********************
i also wish to commend ebs jawara on on his fineese and the
way he handled the situation. i was however going to say that
we should stop re-posts to rectify letters and words in former
posts. i realize that we do not want to be mis-understood,
but i propose that we all have godfaith in each other as
humanbeings, gambians, and bantabaa n'kolu so that gross
miscostructions and misinterpretATIONS CAN be avoided. i believe
noone on this list means anyoneelse any harm.. this can be a
great forum to interact, educate, inform, suggest, solve, or it
can conversely be used for mis-infomation, to dienfranchise,
miseducate, and mislead(i hope not!!!!::;;)
gotta go now people,,,
let's smile whenever we can,
it is always better than a frown,
it is good. deep down inside of us, we are one and all is
good.
nnnnjjjjjaaagggaaa...njaga j.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:36:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New Member
Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9710211736.17416.sarian@groucho>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-MD5: mtnOLNILJM+drPta3hYVmA==
All,
Cheikh Fall has been added to the list. Welcome aboard and please send in your
intro to gambia-l.
regards,
sarian
> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:41:45 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: New Member
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-MD5: oJFu6WTtWG6wFiM67Qa3Aw==
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Anna,
>
> It would be best to tell us who we're adding e.g. John Doe. Email address
only
> doesn't suffice. I take it hes Cheikh but last name no clue. Please provide
his
> full name so we can add him.
>
> regards,
>
> sarian
>
> > Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:30:00 -0700
> > From: Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu>
> > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
> <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> > Subject: New Member
> > Mime-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > X-To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>, cheikh@cse.bridgeport.edu
> > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
> >
> > Hi List Managers,
> > Could you please add my friend to the list. His email address is
> > cheikh@cse.bridgeport.edu. Thanks
> >
> > Anna
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:23:08 -0700
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@corp.sun.com>
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives
Message-ID: <344D638C.4A11@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sarian Loum wrote:
>
> Hi Habib,
>
> CORRECTION! Say some women not all, cause I'm certainly not interested nor
> beleive in this sort of practice/behavior.
>
> cheers,
>
> sarian
>
> > Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 01:22:59 -0700
> > From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
> > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
> <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> > Subject: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > X-To: gambia-L@u.washington.edu
> > X-Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
> > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
> >
> > Did anyone see the last B Walters program.
> > I was surprised to find in the USA a very similar practice to the
> > situation back home with men in similar situation. It seems perfectly
> > acceptable to the women . One man even married two sisters !!!!!
> > What do you think??
> > HabibSarian,
What I meant was that to the women in the interview in Utah it seemed
perfectly acceptable. I can not and would not be able to handle even
two., so I just was flabagasted by the whole topic especially when we
always get this label in the muslim world as lusting for women that
causes many wives. This program proves that it is only in our part of the
world that this happens.
Personally I would not want to share with any one .
Please give my best regards to Anthony.
Habib
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:26:57 -0700
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
Message-ID: <344D6471.11AF@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA wrote:
> =
> Hi Bass!
> I have to say "WOW"! Your piece was really nice. Since I joined
> Gambia-l, I have noticed that you have basically sent short comments.
> Maybe we need to provoke you more into writing long and engaged posts.
> I would like to add another perspective to the colour issue. It i=
s the
> fact that it goes deeper than mere colour. It boils down to the issue of
> privilege. The white people are a minority of the world=B4s population ye=
t
> they control most of the world=B4s resources. This is why they have built=
> arsenal upon arsenal of destructive weapons - to maintain that
> privilege. This is why America had plans to invade the Middle Eastern
> countries during the Middle East oil crisis if the oil embargo had posed
> a serious threat to America=B4s economy. So no matter how the colour issu=
e
> offends Torstein, I am sorry to say that the realities of the world
> would make it impossible for the issue to just evaporate. The darker
> peoples of the world would continue to strive to get a better share of
> the world=B4s resources whilst the white people would continue to strive
> to maintain their privilege by all means necessary.
> The issue of colour privilege is played even in our own countries=
=2E When
> we come to Europe, America, Australia etc., we push and shove to get
> corners in some ghetto whilst when white people go to Africa they live
> in our Fajaras, Kotus etc. and have more privileges than we do. If I
> were to have a fight with a white person in Europe, I would probably be
> assumed to have caused the trouble in the first place. If Torstein were
> to have a fight with a Gambian in Gambia, I bet the police would beat
> the Gambian before even finding out who is right and who is wrong. So
> you see Torstein, the issue of colour cannot simply be wished away.
> Buharry.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> Bassirou Dodou Drammeh wrote:
> >
> > Torstein!
> > Many people have contributed either their Pennies or Dalasis or=
Kroners to
> > this Racial debate,so I thought that I also should contribute my Couple=
of
> > RIYALS in it.Experience has taught us on this list that whenever a give=
n
> > subject refuses to go away,that may be a sign that such a subject needs=
to
> > be really discussed in a much more balanced and serious manner.
> >
> > Well,I need not remind you here - you must know by now - that, in
> > principle, the Gambia-L,as an instituition,condemns and infact always
> > successfully shouts down anyone who tries to engage in verbal savagery
> > based on race.So,that being the case,it cannot be responsible and shoul=
d
> > not have to apologize everytime a new member or a "hardliner" gets out =
of
> > control racially.So,I will not talk about the List,but rather about Gam=
bian
> > and Black attitude in general towards Whites and Whiteness and White
> > Culture.
> >
> > The arguments you are putting forward are fundamentally correct,but you=
> > cannot stretch them too much,else you would run the risk of confusing t=
he
> > fantastic Ideal (how the world should have worked) with the brutal real=
ity
> > of how it actually is out there in 1997.
> >
> > If I recall correctly what you wrote in your letter of introduction to =
this
> > list,Gambia is the first black country you have ever lived and worked i=
n
> > and that your stay there is barely one year,and the added fact that you=
> > come from a country that was not in any real sense involved in the colo=
nial
> > MISadventures of Black Africa would make it even much more difficult fo=
r
> > you to understand the black peoples very complex attitudes towards Whi=
tes
> > and White Culture.Of course,we are not saying that just because you are=
> > doing business in the Gambia,you need to read some Gambian History.Not =
that
> > you will not benefit from that in your dealings with the Gambians,but s=
ince
> > most Gambians themselves don't know much about Gambian history,not sayi=
nfg
> > anything about black history in general,it would be totally unfair to
> > require that of foreigners who just happened to come there to run a
> > business.But at the risk of contradicting myself,I would suggest that y=
ou
> > do just that,since it would help you answer a lot of the questions you =
find
> > baffling with regards to black attitudes towards whites.Or better
> > still,maybe you should read Edward Said's Classic,CULTURE and IMPERIALI=
SM.
> >
> > Torstein,for the sake of simplicity,I would posit that there are two
> > categories of Gambians as far as attitudes towards Whites are concerned=
=2EThe
> > Westernized Minority,the ones exposed to the Western Schooling System
> > sufficiently enough to enable them to understand how western culture wo=
rks
> > and how it deals with non-Western cultures and peoples,and the
> > non-westernized Majority,which includes not only those who have never
> > attended the western schooling system before,but also some who have bee=
n to
> > school but who know almost nothing about western culture beyond the Thr=
ee
> > R,s (Reading,Riting,Rithmetic),the good news for someone like you,a whi=
te
> > man,living in the Gambia is that most of this latter category
> > like,love,respect and admire white people and white lifestyle and most =
of
> > them believe that they are clean,healthy,wealthy and very wise;so,maybe=
> > their treatment of a white living among them is terribly inconveniencin=
g
> > and irritating sometime,but definitely not of the racial hatred type th=
at
> > many of us have experienced at first hand so very much in white
> > societies.As for the
> > first category,the ones that are really familiar with Western culture t=
hat
> > in turn can be divided into basically three groups:1) The ones that acc=
ept
> > western values wholesale and believe that the cure for the present econ=
omic
> > and social dysfunction of black societies lies in the total replacement=
of
> > black instituitions and values with Western ones. 2) The liberals, that=
> > believe that there are indeed lots of elements in Western culture that =
can
> > be profoundly helpful if incorporated in a proper manner into black
> > instituitions.3) The rejectionists,"the hardliners" who believe that th=
e
> > only solution to our miseries is to relclaim our black heritage in its=
> > totality and thus reject the western solutions .
> >
> > Coming back to the attitude of the vast majority of Gambians towards
> > Whites,namely, the second category,we have to understand here that such=
an
> > attitude came about as a direct result of three hundred years of well
> > orchestrated facade maintained by the successive colonial administrato=
rs
> > in
> > which the myth of the whiteman as powerful,knowledgeable and even
> > invincible was carefully cultivated into the popular imagination of the=
> > colonized peoples,Gambians in this case.The creation of such a myth was=
> > done with and by all the means necessary,otherwise it would have been
> > impossible for a couple of hundred white men and their wives and childr=
en
> > to rule over hundreds of
> > thousands of black people some ten thousand kilometers away from the Un=
ited
> > kingdom.The brutalities used to deal with anyone or any group that dare=
d to
> > challenge that myth are beyond the scope of this article.The problem wi=
th
> > myths is that they have a very funny way of representing reality for a
> > people who have no other means of knowing facts that could destroy thos=
e
> > myths.And since, most Gambians are still illiterate or just terribly ba=
dly
> > educated,the myths about white people that were so carefully cultivated=
by
> > the British Colonial Machine into our popular consciousness are very mu=
ch
> > alive and kicking.Professor Shekh Anta Diop had taught us that even tho=
ugh
> > the sacrifices we made, in terms of blood and lives in our struggle to =
end
> > the physical occupation of our lands and resources by whites,are
> > immense,that would be nothing compared to the time ,energy and effort
> > required to Undo the MINDSET,the psychology,the general black inferiori=
ty
> > complex towards anything that has the predicate called WHITE.So,given
> > Diopian analysis,it is not at all surprising that after thirty somethin=
g
> > years of physical Independence from Britain, very many urban Gambian wo=
men
> > still confuse female beauty with whiteness and they value that colour t=
o
> > the
> > extent of using chemicals on their skins that would help kill the very
> > stuff,Melanin,that make them black.To their distorted minds and logic,i=
t is
> > the blackness of their skin that prevents them from being beautiful,and=
> > interestingly enough many Gambian men seem to agree with them in their=
> > that
> > reasoning, since a significant number of them constantly keep on
> > terrorising
> > our darker skinned women with the threat of loving or marrying lighter
> > skinned women - a threat that has on numerous occasions had the devasta=
ting
> > effect of pushing some who would otherwise not have ventured into such =
a
> > moral insanity,such a self-mutilation,such an insult of the self and
> > dignity of black humanity!
> >
> > So,Mr.Torstein,if I were a blond from somewhere in Scandanavia visiting=
a
> > black country like Gambia,there would be nothing that could prevent me =
from
> > thinking loudly to myself:" But what the hell is wrong with these peopl=
e?!
> > All of them are black and almost all of them are constantly harping on =
and
> > singing the praises of blackness,and yet there is very little evidence =
in
> > their day to day behaviour that seems to suggest that they indeed belie=
ve
> > in what they are so tirelessly talking about: their pride in their
> > blackness!"
> > But then again, first impressions could be very dangerously deceptive,=
and
> > judging a people for
> > their present shortcomings and failures without giving any thought to t=
heir
> > past cannot be a terribly fair appraisal.The fact is that,sometimes the=
> > sheer weight of the history of a people is just too heavy a burden to b=
e
> > borne by just one generation,and Gambia,as part of the once colonized b=
lack
> > humanity has a very heavy and loaded history;and the weightiness of our=
> > history is made much more complicated by our shocking incapacity to pro=
duce
> > ,since our so-called physical independence ,the kind of great ,good,sin=
cere
> > and patriotic leaders that are so easily and abundantly available to ot=
her
> > societies whose skin colours are different from our own;baffling,don't =
you
> > think?
> >
> > Mr.Torstein,you being the kind of very genuinely nice guy you sound to =
be
> > like,it cannot be very difficult for you to understand how very trouble=
d
> > and frustrated we must feel like:after three and a half decades of
> > self-rule,our learnig instituitions have totally failed to produce for =
us
> > even one good leader who does not have at the back of his mind some wh=
ite
> > dreams that eventually translates itself into defrauding our already
> > impoverished and tired masses;after three and a half decades of black
> > self-rule, many of our women still believe that the colour of beauty is=
> > white;after three and a half decades of self-rule,we still cannot feed
> > ourselves and are addicted to earning our living by annually begging fr=
om
> > international donors;after three and a half decades of self-rule, we st=
ill
> > cannot guarantee a 24-hour electricity supply for just our cities and
> > towns.This list could go on and on.But in a nutshell,we the black peopl=
es
> > have
> > still unfortunately not been able to find the right formula that would
> > enable us to
> > build a prosperous and dignified society that would neither beg nor ste=
al
> > nor be ashamed of its colour and heritage.But, of course,the wheel of
> > progress never
> > stops,and our failure today does not mean that we will not find the mag=
ic
> > solution some day in the future;and when that great day arrives,that wi=
ll
> > be the day that blackness will not equal failure,to political
> > chaos, to social dysfunction,to intolerance,to dictatorship,to bigotry =
and
> > to senseless violence.But until such a day actually arrives,and it will=
> > arrive,we cannot afford not to sing the praises of our colour many time=
s
> > enough to make sure that its basic message,the greatness of the black
> > people, that was lost on the past generation will eventually get throug=
h to
> > the coming ones.So,to conclude,let us listen to one of the giants of Bl=
ack
> > Poetry,AIME CESAIRE:
> >
> > "But the work of man is only just begining
> > and it remains to man to conquer all
> > ` the violence entrenched in the recess of his passion.
> >
> > And no race posseses the monopoly of beauty,
> > of intelligence,of force,and there
> > is a place for all at the rendevous of victory"
> >
> > Regards Bassss!WELL SAID. That'=
s all
Habib
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:31:37 -0700
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: "Give A Book" : just an idea
Message-ID: <344D6589.7D56@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ebrima Sall wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I've been toying with an idea, and I want to get your views on it.
>
> I was thinking that we could launch a campaign for getting books for the
> University of Gambia and/or for the Gambia National Library. This would be
> very simple: urging all those who can do so to send at least one book to
> to the University Library, or to the National Library. Something like a : "Give A
> Book" campaign.
>
> We all know how important documentation is to any university, not to say
> to a country. And I know from my experience with CODESRIA that
> access to good documentation is one of the main problems facing
> academic and other institutions of learning in Africa today.
> In a private exchange of e-mails a few weeks ago, Katim and
> I were saying how rich American universities are, when it
> comes to documentation, and Katim was advising that I use my stint at Yale to make
> the most of what that university has to offer in that regard (I hope Katim
> does not mind my sharing this piece of advice with list members).
>
> I think it will require much more than donations of a couple of books by
> Gambians and "Gambianists" to develop the resources of the University of
> Gambia into something significant. But if each one of us was to buy
> at least one book that we think is important, or relevant to what
> people in The Gambia are working on or may be interested in, and send it
> to the University or National Library, I think the gesture would be
> important, and it may help in improving, somewhat, the quality of the
> documentation available to Gambian students and researchers based in the
> country.
>
> Those who can buy and send more than one book can obviously do so. The
> campaign would also not be restricted to Gambians, or to individuals:
> anybody who can persuade anybody else to donate books to The Gambia, or
> get an institution based anywhere in the world to give books or related
> materials for the libraries, as part of this campaign, would be encouraged
> to do so.
>
> I have also always been wondering why people writing masters or
> PhD dissertations on Gambia, or on issues that Gambians might be
> interested in, do not always donate at least one copy of their work to the
> National Library. This applies to those who write books. I once asked the
> Chief Librarian (or whatever she is called) of the National Library why
> she is not trying to get people writing dissertations on Gambia to send
> her copies of their work for the Library. Her answer was something
> like: she had tried but did not succeed. Anyway, I think this would be a good way to get knowledge generated in an
> area somehow connected with the Gambia to be ploughed back into the
> country.
>
> Books to be sent can be of any discipline or subject of relevance
> (or, let's say, of interest, or potential interest to Gambians). And,
> as stated above, those who have not written dissertations or are not in
> academia can simply buy any book they find important or interesting for
> people in The Gambia, on any subject--from physics to
> philosophy and music--and send it. The books could reference books, text
> books, essays, etc. The exercise could be repeated every year, say at
> about the time that the adademic year begins, i.e. September-October. As
> time goes on, we could be setting targets of, say, sending such and such a
> number of books, of this or that type, and related material, to this or
> that institution, reaching such and such a number of students, teachers,
> trainers, and other interested readers.
>
> And so forth and so on....
>
> For the campaign (if it ever gets off the ground) to be effective, we
> would have to prepare it well--get the addresses of the University
> Library, and the National Library, get in touch with the people there,
> etc. If we can get to know which books are most needed, that would also be good.
> I guess this would be something a structure like the Education Committee
> could do, with the assistance of list members. The whole thing would
> require some coordination, and we should be able to keep track of what is
> going on in the broad framework of the campaign...
>
> Please let me know whether all this makes sense. I have been struggling
> with the idea for some time. And then I mentioned it to Katim, Latjor,
> Momodou, Amadou, Sam and a few other friends, some some of whom succeeded in making
> me believe that it is not as crazy an idea as I tend to think it is, thus
> giving me the courage (!?!) to send it out to you all!
>
> So, I will listen to hear from you. I am sure many of you have much better
> ideas!!!
>
> Have a nice evening.
>
> Ebrima.It sounds good but the cost of shipping those books could probably buy
several computers which may help many students in almost any field of
study through the internet. I hope some businessmen would take the
initiative to do just that. Good idea.
Habib
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 21:58:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: FELCHERS
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971021213847.20945A-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Brother Tamsir:
Perhaps you are right that I should not have said what I said
in the way I said it. My apologies. So let me restate it this
way.
It would be worthwhile for us to engage in a discussion of
the independence movement(s) in the gambia. How does that sound?
As you rightly pointed out, most of us did not have the benefit
of knowing who we really are in history. The few who have gone
through our educational system and have a full grasp of our
history did so independently or had the priviledge of reading
FOROYAA's leatures on it, Dr. Nyang, among others. As most
of the members of this bantaba are gambians, your response and
the others on the 'Felchers' series triggered something in me.
I saw an opportunity for us to have a constructive discussion
of the political history of gambia.
To your other question(s). Well I think we ought to refrain
from personalizing the issues. Mr. Jawara (Ebs) is an individual
with his own experiences and opinions. We ought not see the ghost
of his parent in every thing he says. Jainaba is also an
individual with her own unique experiences and opinions. We
ought not see the possibility of a relationship written between
every 'passionate' line she writes.
In peace,
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 23:06:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: These terrible WHITE people
Message-ID: <971021230526_303389261@emout15.mail.aol.com>
Torstein,
I find this comment very interesting. You see, this issue of always
emphasizing color,judging a person by their color and locking them into a
preconceived notion, is what people of color have to live with every day in
these United States. l observe this on a daily basis right here. l cannot
tell you how many times l have looked at a person practicing this and say to
myself, it is too bad that this individual has this view that will prevent
him or her from getting to know me as an individual and perhaps learning
something they did not know to broaden their horizons. Most of the time, l
find that these perpetrators are people who do not have even a fraction of
the intelligence that the person they are making assumptions about has. My
favorite is when some of these people try to talk to you as if you have no
brain. l just laugh and walk away, feeling sorry for that individual. Yes,
Black people have wished for years that there was not so much emphasis on
color. It would be a wonderful world, wouldn't it?
Jabou.
In a message dated 10/17/97 5:19:49 PM, you wrote:
<<Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit
Hello Mr.Gibba.
You wrote:
> NOW, DO YOU HAVE A SOLUTION TO THIS
> INDIVIDUAL, NATIONAL, AND INTERNATIONAL *C*O*L*O*R* PROBLEM WITHOUT A
> MENTION OF THIS CONCEPT OF *C*O*L*O*R*? ...AM EAGER TO HEAR IT.
Well, what about simply stop putting emphasis on color?
If a Gambian or otherwise a person with a dark complexion comes up to
me and says; "I'm black and I'm proud of it" it tells me nothing about this
person. The only thing he/she tells me is that I should consider his/her
color as a
value to what/who he/she is?!
My response to this statement will always be: "so what?"
The next thing I would do is to ask him/her what is your name, where do you
come
from etc. Then I'll get to know him/her, little by little.
What I am saying is that using color as a thing to always put importance
on, will make it more difficult to focus on a real evaluation of the person
(i.e. what country, your beliefs, age, type of education, political position
etc.)
When I read really angry or exited mails(using big letters..) from some of
Gambia-L's
"hard-liners?!"
there is an description of people being either WHITE or BLACK. There seem to
be no room for
anything
in between?! For me it resembles a cold war between "evil" and "good"
people, where the evil ones
are "WHITE" and the good ones are "BLACK"...(and the few bad "blacks" are
traitors?!")
The last cold war was between to superpowers and two political systems, and
I just hope history
will
view that "war" as one of the most stupid things mankind has done to itself.
Sincerely,
Torstein
The Gambia
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To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These terrible WHITE people
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>>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 23:28:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Dusty Sukuru-kunda
Message-ID: <971021232456_1993920726@emout11.mail.aol.com>
Habib,
Can you guys tell me why you keep implying that l am advocating forcing the
religion of Islam on anyone?
Jabou.
In a message dated 10/20/97 11:22:31 PM, you wrote:
<<Gunjur@aol.com wrote:
>
> Dear Bass,
>
> For the life of me, l do not know how you came to arrive at the conclusion
> that l am of the view that only Islam should be practiced in the Gambia. It
> reminds me of the game where you start a rumour and watch what it becomes
by
> the time it gets back to you, a completely different thing from the initial
> statement. How does my pointing out misinfromation about Islam as put forth
> by others suddenly mean that l am advocating that everyone should be s
> Muslim? l think if you are as knowledgeable about the religion as you
propose
> to be, then you must surely know that it advocates leaving everyone to
their
> choices. Furthermore, even the prophet Muhammad had treaties with some of
the
> pagans during his time. This religion advocate treating everyone with
> courtesy and respect, and that Allah, not us , is the final judge. Those
who
> do not know this , or take heed of this fact,constitute the negative
element
> that is giving Islam a bad name today.
> Go back to all the postings of the previous discussions and see if you
will
> find anywhere l condoned Mr. Bojang's threats against the Ahmadiyyas, or
> advocated that Islam should be practiced by one and all. l think that
perhaps
> time has dimmed your memories of my exact statements on this issue. lf l am
> ever minister of whatever my friend, l will impart my responsibilities to
ALL
> Gambians and my fellow human beings with the caring, respect,
consideration
> and fairness that being raised a Muslim and a Gambian has imparted on me.
And
> that outlook, leaves no room for totalitarianism of any sort, thank you.
>
> Jabou Joh.Jabou,
I think both Basss and you make some valid points but remember that
interpretation of the Hadith can be very misleading . It depends entirely
on the authors but the QURAN which descended from the angels directly to
the prophet, Muhamed (peace be unto him), CAN NOT be misquoted due to
that fact.
Islam during the days of the prophet did not have Sunni or Shia, Tijanni
or Nyassain , or Wahabi or Jaffari ,or sufism , or Hanafi or Shafi or any
other differences we see today.
Basically there was only one way . The prophet prayed both ways- with
folded hands and hands straight down . All were right then and the same
should apply now also. Let us look at the similarities not differences
please. I agree with Jabou no one should be allowed to add changes to our
religion as the Ahmadiyas did but no one should force the religion on any
one as Basss also rightly pointed.
Just wanted to get some facts for us to base this issue.
peace
Habib
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From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Dusty Sukuru-kunda
References: <971019185315_714207236@emout09.mail.aol.com>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:50:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Ousman Gajigo <gajigoo@wabash.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Bush List
Message-ID: <EF2973F81@scholar.wabash.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
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Can someone please send me the email address of the Bush List. I have
something to send.
Thank you
Ousman
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 23:59:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives
Message-ID: <971021235837_1234797154@emout18.mail.aol.com>
Habib,
l saw the program, but l must say that the number of wives was phenominal.
However, l did admire the way they got along. lf that kind of positivism
existed between co-wives in our society, it sure would have alleviated a lot
of pain and strife between family members. l know a lot of the sisters on the
list get upset when l say that there are advantages to this sort of practice
for the women as well. For one thing, it allows you to get the guy out of
your hair every so often. You can be married and still get to live a single
life a few days at a time. l think that's ideal. Now, l'll wait for Ancha to
jump in.
Jabou.
<<Did anyone see the last B Walters program.
I was surprised to find in the USA a very similar practice to the
situation back home with men in similar situation. It seems perfectly
acceptable to the women . One man even married two sisters !!!!!
What do you think??
Habib
>>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 01:11:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: TOURAY1@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Trivia Question:
Message-ID: <971022010940_241442379@mrin42.mail.aol.com>
Hey Fellows,
Does anyone knows where the name GAMBIA
came from?Or what the word Gambia means?
This is an open question and everyone is welcome
to give it a shot.
Lamin.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 01:17:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Bush List
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971022011615.21526A-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Ousman, here is the address and if you want to be added to the
list let Sarian know.
Bush List <Gampatriots@Corp.Sun.COM>
LatJor
On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Ousman Gajigo wrote:
> Can someone please send me the email address of the Bush List. I have
> something to send.
>
> Thank you
>
> Ousman
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 23:00:01 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Jawara.
Message-ID: <19971022060001.9376.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Ebrima,
So you don't want to move on, eh!!!! O.K, my response is interspersed in
the piece of trash below....
>Jainaba, may I say that I am not at all offended. And alas, I do not
>have any wounds to lick. You are entitled to your opinions, as I am
>sure I am. If calling my Dad names is constructive, then so be it. I
>would have thought that you would focus on the issue at hand, rather
>than hide behind petty remarks.
I will attack Mr. Jawara whenever an issue is being discussed, which has
something to do with his maladministration. So whether you call it
"calling my Dad names" or whatever you want to call it..the "show" will
continue.
>Do I sense a hint of envy, jealousy, hatred? Do you have a chip on
>your shoulder? My father governed The Gambia for a long time. That
>is a fact. I don't give a toss what you think about him. I think
>history will be the judge of him.
Only an *****...a very stupid one indeed, will be jealous of that
Kleptomaniacal political prostitute. I would rather not have a role
model than to look up to Mr. Jawara, try to get that son!!!!
You are right though about the fact that Mr. Jawara "mis-governed" The
Gambia for a long time. He certainly will be judged as one of the
failures of the African masses, a kleptomaniac currently residing in a
stolen property in Sussex.
>I still do want to take you out. The more I read your excellent
>writings, the more my passion for you rises. Please accept my offer.
There is a lonely person somewhere in Sussex who might be interested in
going out for a walk once in a while...why not consider taking that
person, your HERO out???? You are not my type...get that into your
head!!!!!
>With all my love,
>
>Your humble servant,
>
>Ebs.
Jainaba.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 23:25:03 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: FELCHED.
Message-ID: <19971022062503.7000.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Ebrima,
Why not forward this "very impressive resume" to the employment office
rather than Gambia-l? A Janitorial (or perhaps a bartending) position
may be available which you wouldn't wanna miss. As humanbeings, we all
need to eat for survival.
Just an advice. Oh sure, you are welcome!!!!
Jainaba.
**********************************************************************
>JAWARA, Alhagi Sir Dawda kairaba, Kt 1966; Hon. Grand Cross of the
Order
>of Saint Michael and Saint George (England), 1974; Grand Master, Order
of
>the Republic of The Gambia, 1972; President of the Republic of The
Gambia
>1970-94; Vice President of the Senegambia Confederation 1982-89; b.
>Barajally, MacCarthy Island Division, 16 May 1924. Educ: Muslim primary
>sch and Methodist Boys Grammar Sch. Bathurst. Achimota College (Vet
>School); Glasgow Univ. FRCVS 1988 (MRCVS 1953); Dipl in Tropical Vet.
>Med., Edinburgh, 1957. Veterinary Officer for The Gambia Govt.,
1954-57,
>Principal Vet. Officer, 1957-60. Leader of People's Progressive Party
>(formerly Protectorate People's Party), The Gambia, 1960; Min of Educ,
>1960-61; Premier, 1962-63; Prime Minister, 1963-70. Chairman: Permanent
>Inter State Cttee for Drought in the Sahel, 1977-79; Organisation pour
la
>Mise en Valeur du Fleuve Gambie conf., Heads of State of Govt, 1987-88,
>Authy of Heads of State and Govt, Economic Community of West African
>States, 1988-89. Patron, Commonwealth Vet. Assoc., 1967-. Hon. LLD Ife,
>1978; Hon. DSc Colorado State Univ., USA 1986. Peutinger Gold Medal,
>Peutinger-Collegium, Munich, 1979; Agricola Medal, FAO, Rome, 1980.
Grand
>Cross, Order of Cedar of lebanon, 1966; Nat. Order of Rep of Senegal,
>1967; Order of Precipitous Clouds of China (Taiwan), 1968; Nat. Order
of
>Rep of Guinea, 1973; Grand Cordon of Most Venerable Order of
Knighthood,
>Pioneers of Liberia, 1968; Grand Comdr, Nat. Order of Fed Rep of
Nigeria,
>1970; Comdr of Golden Ark (Netherlands), 1979; Grand Gwanghwa Medal of
>Order of Diplomatic Service (Rep of Korea), 1974; Nishan-i-Pakistan
>(Pakistan), 1984; Grand Order of Nat. Merit, Islamic Rep of Mauritania,
>1992; Grand Comdr, Nat. Order of REp of Portugal, 1993. Recreations:
golf,
>gardening, sailing.
>
>The above was taken from:
>
>Who's Who 1997, A & C Black, London, 1997.
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:22:54 +0100 (BST)
From: Sainey Keita <S.Keita@reading.ac.uk>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Black Inventors
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971022104232.4624B-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi Momodou Jagana
I agree with you that we have lost a lot during the post independence era
due to maladministration. But from history books the colonialist
succeeded in colonising us because our people could not put up
resistance. The back bone of the slave trade was to transport young and
able men and women across the atlantic to work in the plantations.
Similarly, the objective of the colonialist was to destroy our arts and
craft making us a dependant nation, producer or raw materials and
consumers of finish product thus no room for industrialisation and
technological advancement.
Certainly I can confidently say if it were not for the slave trade we
would not have been colonised and we would have been contributing
positively in the fields science and technology.
Also remember when the colonialists could no longer stand the wind of
change (ie colonies asking for independence) they handed over power
to their stoogies people like the former president of ivory coast who
were only interested in political independence and not economic
independence so the system of exploitation and maladministration
continued.
Momodou it is a question of knowing your history if you want to make an
objective analysis of the present.
Thanks,
Sainey.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:25:02 GMT0BST
From: "JOHN OKYERE" <PLXJO@pln2.life.nottingham.ac.uk>
To: africarib@nottingham.ac.uk
Subject: Africarib: Mandela attacks 'arrogance' of US
Message-ID: <3F272D1415D@pln2.life.nottingham.ac.uk>
Electronic Telegraph
International News
Monday 20 October 1997 Issue 879
President attacks 'arrogance' of US
By Christopher Munnion
RELATIONS between South Africa and America have reached a new
low following an angry reaction by President Mandela to
Washington's criticism of his forthcoming visit to Libya.
"How can they have the arrogance to dictate to us where we
should go or who our friends should be?" Mr Mandela asked at
the weekend. Mr Mandela is due to make a state visit to Libya
on Wednesday on his way to the Commonwealth Conference in
Edinburgh. He is responding to a long-standing invitation from
Col Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, a staunch and generous
supporter of the African National Congress during its
liberation struggle.
The South African leader will travel to Tripoli by road from
neighbouring Tunisia after the US State Department said a
direct flight would violate United Nations sanctions against
Libya. American officials said they would be "disappointed" if
Mr Mandela went ahead with his visit. The US has branded Libya
as a rogue state committed to sponsoring international
terrorism and believes any diplomatic contact with Tripoli
should be at a low level.
The South African government is still smarting from the
disclosure that the CIA forged the signature of Ronnie Kasrils,
South Africa's Deputy Defence Minister, in a "sting" operation
to ensnare three US citizens who have been accused of spying.
An apology by the CIA failed to assuage anger among many in the
ANC hierarchy over what they regard as America's arrogance in
its approach to developing nations.
+ Copyright Telegraph Group Limited 1997. Terms & Conditions of
reading.
Email Electronic Telegraph.
**************************************************************************************************************
John Okyere,
Plant Genetic Manipulation Group
Department of Life Science
University of Nottingham
University Park
Nottingham NG7 2RD Tel:+44 115 9513229(lab)
U.K. Tel:+44 115 9781429(h)
***************************************************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 07:10:11 -0400
From: SAMBA NJIE <snjie@gis.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: FELCHERS
Message-ID: <344DDF13.66B5@gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jainaba Diallo wrote:
>
> Tamsir,
>
> My response is intersperced in yours below.
>
> >Jainaba and others,
> > Pardon me but i think you are wrong. Parental name-calling is
> >a sign of a lackluster in diplomacy. From Ebrima's postings, i did
>not
> make out any attack on your parents, and so i conclude that to do >so to
> him is inappropriate, especially in a forum like this.
>
> You must have been sleepy when you first read my posting...why not read
> it again and point out the sections where I made those name calls. My
> beef is about the maladministrator called Sir David/Dawda who "raped"
> the Gambian people in broad daylight for almost three decades(with his
> gang of political prostitutes). I care less if his son/daughter is on
> the list or not...I have my freedom to free speech.
>
> >By the way, i have never been a fan of the way Jawara ran the >govt
> while he was in office.
>
> Nobody in his/her right mind was....even the mentally challenged at
> Campama knew change was necessary!!!
>
> >Without him we would probably still be under the jurisdiction
> >of Her Royal Highness, Queen Elizabeth II. Guinea Bissau didn't get
> >independence until 1974. Gambia's plight could have been worse.
>
> Yeah, right!!! Please tell me you are kidding!!!!
>
> >Finally, i find it necessary to remind you that ours is a secular
> >country. As such, Dawda Jawara was at liberty to choose whatever
> >religion he wanted. Sir Dawda's religion is his prerogative, just
>like
> everybody else's is their prerogative.
>
> Unlike you and I, David/Dawda used religion as a political tool, just
> like other Vagabonds have used the ethnic card in various other African
> countries for their selfish gain. Since he is not (and will never be
> back) in power, I won't be suprised if he reverts back to David to
> please the monarchy -- a classic case of a "political prostitute".
> > Thanx again and peace to everyone.
> > It's Tamsir.
> >
> Jainaba.
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Jainaba,
In our euphoria over the changes that came with the coup,have we all
suddenly become myopic? We all seem to be oblivious to the fact that
there has been strange happenings the past couple of years or
so...political murders, disappearings, allegations of drug involvement
and counterfeiting, government funds ending up in private swiss bank
accounts... we have yet to get an explanation for all these from Mr
Jammeh.
Whats the difference in what he's doing now and what he accuses the
former regime of doing? Talk about maladministration..
Thanks
Samba
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:11:43 +0000
From: S Njie <S.Njie@commonwealth.int>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: CHOGM WEBSITE ADDRESS
Message-ID: <CD8FE13001D23A00@commonwealth.int>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-disposition: inline
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In my last posting I erroneously omitted a vital segment of the
Commonwealth Heads of Government Website. M.Camara
kindly drew my attention to this remiss.
The correct site address is :
http://www.chogm97.org/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:38:55 +0200
From: Amadou Kabir Njie <Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no>
To: "'Gambia-L@u.washington.edu'" <Gambia-L@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE : TRIVIA QUESTION
Message-ID: <FBF1001D6A18D1118AC100A0C942F230A660@AVIA-A>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Lamin,
I don't know how authentic this piece of oral histry is, but many years
ago ( I can't recall which year but it was in the middle of the 1970's )
I heard one Sunday afternoon a Mandinka oral historian tell over Radio
Gambia a story about the origins of the name of our beloved country.
Some white "explorers" (Torstein, no offence meant) had landed on the
banks of the River of what we now call The Gambia. The name of the then
chief of the area they had landed on was called Kambi.
The inhabitants they found on the river bank then told these "explorers"
to follow them to Kambi's (in Mandinka : NA NGA TA KAMBI YA). These
"explorers" unable to pronounce KAMBI YA thus mal-pronounced it:
"Gambia". Hence the name GAMBIA.
A. Kabir Njie.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:17:10 +0200
From: Amadou Kabir Njie <Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no>
To: "'Gambia-L@u.washington.edu'" <Gambia-L@u.washington.edu>
Subject: CORRECTION - RE . TRIVIA QUESTION
Message-ID: <FBF1001D6A18D1118AC100A0C942F230A661@AVIA-A>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hey there,
Once again in my eagerness to quickly respond to a posting, I have
written something I didn't mean to write Such is the case with me as the
only time I have access to the Bantaba is when I am at work.
Anyway, the second paragraph should read:
"Some white "explorers" (Torstein, no offence meant) had landed on the
banks of the River of what we now call The Gambia. The then chief of the
area they had landed on was called KAMBI".
Excuse my clumsiness!
A. Kabir Njie.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:51:31 -0700
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: Black Inventors
Message-ID: <344E7563.7E53@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi!
A book that might be of interest in this connection is J.A. Rogers=B4
100 Facts About the Negro With Complete Proof (1970). The publisher is
not listed. For those living in Atlanta who might be interested, I
bought the book from: Shrine of the Black Madonna, 946 Gordon St. S.W., =
Tel. 752 6125. I don=B4t know if the number or address are still actual
because I bought the book in 1989 when I was living in Atlanta. There
were tons of books by and about black people. Anyway, here are some
facts listed:
* Benjamin Banneker, a black astronomer, made the first clock in
America in 1754.
* The River Ganges, India=B4s sacred river, is named after an Ethiopian
of the same name who conquered Asia as far as this river.
* Black people lived in America thousands of years before Columbus. =
Central American monuments carvings of them as gods. The first whites =
to have reached the American mainland reportted seeing blacks and =
Columbus said that he had heard of them there.
* Baptist Pointe de Saible, a black man, founded the city of Chicago
in 1779.
* Jan Ernest Matzeliger, a Dutch West Indian who lived in Lynn, Mass., =
invented the first the first machine for sewing the soles of shoes to =
the uppers.
* Dr. Daniel Williams, a Chicago surgeon who died in 1931, performed
the first successful operation on the human heart.
* Thomas Jefferson, third president of the US and father of the =
Declaration of Independence, was the father of a large number of =
mulatto children. His wife protested loud and long to no avail. =
HMMMMMMMMM!
* The Devil which is now depicted as black was once portrayed as
white. When the black man dominated the planet, he painted the forces
of evil as white. This was reversed when the power shifted. As late as
1500 the Ethiopians depicted their gods and heroes as black and their
devils and villains as white.
* In the Bible, God, or the Ancient of Days, is described as having
"hair like the pure wool". The earliest of statues of the Virgin Mary
and Christ as far north as Russia, were black and negoid.
* Ethiopians gave to the world the first idea of right and wrong and
thus laid the basis of religion, and of all true culture and
civilisation. The earliest exposition of this is the Memphite Drama
which is only known through a copy on a slab of basalt made by order
of an Ethiopian king in 700 B.C.
* There were three African Popes of Rome: Victor (189-199 A.D.), =
Melchiades (311-312 A.D.), and St. Gelasius (496 A.D.). It was =
Melchiades who led Christianity to final triumph against the Roman =
Empire.
* Yusuf, a king from Upper Senegal, saved Moorish civilisation in
Spain in 1086. He defeated Christians of Germanic descent whose army
numbered 70,000 with his army mostly of pure blacks numbering 15,000
plus 10,000 more Moorish troops.
* John VI, a dark mulatto king of Portugal, was the maker of modern =
Brazil. He ruled Portugal from Brazil when he moved his throne to Rio =
de Janeiro in 1808.
* Jean Baptiste Bernadotte, a coloured man, was the founder of the =
present Swedish royal family. He enlisted in Napoleon=B4s army as a =
private and rose to field-marshal. In 1818, he ascended to the throne =
of Sweden as Charles XIV when France conquered Sweden.
* In 1670, Virginia passed a law forbidding black people from buying =
white people. Free blacks were buying white people at such a rate that =
Louisiana passed a similar law in 1818.
* Abraham Hannibal, a black man, became a tutor in military
engineering to Peter the Great=B4s son and later became
commander-in-chief of the entire Russian army.
* Since 1460 A.D. or earlier, the blacks of Seville, Spain, had been =
wearing in the religious procession on the feast of Corpus Cristi, a =
white robe and hood, strikingly like that used by the Ku Klux Klan, =
which originated 428 years later.
HOPE YOU'VE FOUND THE EXCERPTS USEFUL. =
=
Another interseting book is:
James, George G.M. (1992)
Greek Philosophy is Stolen Egyptian Philosophy
First Africa World Press
Buharry.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:41:46 -0000
From: "jgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Cancer Patient
Message-ID: <B0000012036@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sent by "Jorn Grotnes" <jgr@commit.gm>
via Commit
List,
PLEASE check the validity of this message before forwarding it.
For people with Web-access, it can easily be done by using a
search tool and some keywords from the message.
This message looks exactly (with a few small changing of words)
like an earlier mail-hoax.
1) Even if it was true, since it has no expiry date, how do we know
when to stop?=20
(One of the first such chain mails was started "accidentically"=20
as an experiment by two high-school students, but they (of course)
had to shut down these e-mail accounts since the mails neves stopped
coming - it didn't help that the parents pleaded on the net to stop,
they had put no expiry date on it, and on the net, a chain-letter
lives forever (just about).
2) On the Internet, such a tear dripping story spreads enormously
fast and will help clog the net with traffic, which:
3) A lot of people will, just as som people like to make an spread
viruses, like to see their message spread on the net.
4) Does anyone REALLY believe the 3 cent per e-mail story? It would
be no problem to receive 10 million e-mails in a short time, and=20
while I'm sure the American Cancer Society donates monies to cancer
research without counting e-mails, I doubt that the corporate
sponsors would enter into something so easily falsisfied as an e-mail
count.
My conclusion is that you should never just re-send any "panic" or
"chain-mail" message on the net, 99% of the cases are hoaxes (or in
my case, I have seen only 100% hoaxes and no real cases).
Jorn
Commit
The Gambia
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 07:31:06 PDT
From: "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: These terrible WHITE people (fwd)
Message-ID: <19971022143107.13819.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
hi ANCHA, and fellow g-lers:
>...... But, as a form
>of identification, these same people wanna be called by their names,
>nationality etc. which to me is just another form of identity......
...... who was trying to describe a person to me. She
>went on
>and on about she's petite, she has really short hair which is kinda
curly
>etc. I kept giving her blank stares until she mentioned some event the
>girl was at and I said "oh!! the black girl" with triumph on my face.
******************************************************
The use of a person's racial background, and or color to
describe them is a good example of the positive side. this is
especially so when he or she is unfamiliar to oneself and one
doesn't know the person-to-be-described's name.
I have a good example myself. once i was working in new
york over the summer at a gas station. there was this guy
that came to the station, filled his tank up and drove away in
a flash. untill then, i was a staunch anti anything-that
had-anything-to-do-with-racial-distinction. but when the officer
asked me to describe this gas-thief, i was at a loss trying to
tell them anything without including his race. i realised that
a twenty-five to thirty year old guy, 5" 8', muscular, would
aply to almost half of new york males. i had to include his
race to at least narrow it down further to maybe 1/4th of the
population and increase the chances of apprehending him since i
could describe his car, but did not get his license plates.
N J A G A......J
smile at someone who does not smile themselves, for none needs
this eluminating gift than the one that has none left to smile
about.......
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:16:31 +0100 (BST)
From: Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
To: Gambia Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Casamance.
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971022154246.5434E-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
Njaga, Tamsir, Latjor, Ebrima,
Gentlemen, pardon my intrusion.
Does anyone have the answers to the following questions?
- How much is the war effort costing the Senegalese govt, in terms of
ammunition, rations, lives and limbs?
"HE WHO WISHES TO FIGHT MUST FIRST COUNT THE COST" Sun Tzu.
- The separatists seem to have an endless supply of anti-personnel mines,
and ammunition. Where do they get their funding? The heavy casualties
sustained by the government were not caused by machetes and bows and
arrows.
In my humble opinion, I beleive the war will drag on till the cost of wagimg
it becomes too much for one or both sides.
LIke I said, MY HUMBLE OPINION.
My Darling Jainaba, I think we are all entitled to send what we think is
relevant to GAMBIAN issues. You may not like the part from Who's Who I
sent, but you have to realise that Jawara is a part of your history,
your heritage.
You call my Dad a political prostitute, I do not mind.
You question my ability to write, I do not mind.
You call me thick-skulled, I do not mind.
You revel in the fact that I am in exile, I do not mind.
However, I draw the line at you telling me what I should and shouldn't
send to the list. You do not like me, fair enough, but I shall post what I
deem relevant.
I think I have reached a stage where reading your mail turns me on to the
point of sexual ecstasy. It has become an obssession of mine, waiting for
your mail. I have all these fantasies. Thank you.
BTW I shall give your love to Sir Dawda.
PEACE.
EBS.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 18:46:09 +0300
From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: These TERRIBLE BLACK PEOPLE!
Message-ID: <199710222143.SAA29849@qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Mr.Gassama!
Thanks for both the compliments and the thoughtful
observations you have made.And keep up the good work down there!
Regards Bassss!
>
> Hi Bass!
> I have to say "WOW"! Your piece was really nice. Since I joined
> Gambia-l, I have noticed that you have basically sent short comments.
> Maybe we need to provoke you more into writing long and engaged posts.
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 15:18:59 +0100
From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: FELCHING./ or ??? getting out of hand
Message-ID: <B0000012089@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit
Folks,
I have been quietly following this discourse and it is just completely gone
out of whack in my opinion..it is no longer educative or funny but seems to
start to descend in sheer insults and name calling..all jokes aside, I
think the two principal parties should take a break....folks please live
and let live..let us agree to disagree or even argue without being without
being nasty..
so please folks, I am appealing for a pause in this spiralling discourse..
on a final note, I think it is sad that we africans never take time to
appreciate our history, I am of the opinion that Jawara over-stayed but
that does not diminsh his achievements..he took a little piece of land that
the British did not want to subsidise anymore and were trying to give to
the Senegalese or to Sierra Leone, 30 years later, this country with then
only peanuts and now, next to nothing, but a warm and friendly and
optimistic (hence Tourism) but self-reliant people are not only foremost in
the sub-region in terms of social stability, currency, and
economically... but is home to many Senegalese, Sierra Leoneans, Nigerians
etc...as immigrants, refugees and yes even hustlers..that is why despite
the sanctions by the West, the British
tourist advice then, the repeated incursions and attempts by ex-soldiers
and rebels, the Gambian people have refused to be divided ..that is why we
united against religious bigotry and against tribalism, and against all
attempts to divide us...some of us do not coup d'états..(the long debate on
gambia-l) even though we mostly felt that a change was needed..but
considering that even the U.S. had a civil war, a coup is a minor price in
our march towards nationhood and national development...taking a global
view..but if with every change we have to demolish and rubbish everything
we
have achieved together..and start from zero..we will never get there..
a week ago, a new multi-million dollar passenger terminal was opened and it
is in deed as of date, one of the most modern and up-to-date terminals in
sub-saharan africa..and rightfully so, now from an aerodrome engineer's
view, the old terminal which a lot of people have disparaged..is also a
wonderful design and building..why...because when it was designed in
1972/74, the peak hour departing passengers ( the foremost parameter in
terminal design) stood at 15 passengers, the building was design for 30
departing passengers and with a maximum capacity of 80..the Engineering was
by the British and all was done according to the specifications, however
The Gambia suddenly experienced phenomenal growth in Tourism, probably, the
fastest and highest growth per capita in the world, and in less that 20
years, peak departing passengers stood at 450..so the new Terminal is
designed for 1000 passengers peak capacity...
my point is the fact that a terminal designed for a peak of 80 was until
last week handling 450 is the pheneomenon..we had exceeded all design and
forecast parameters and I am positive that in less than the 20 years
forecasted, we will exceed current design capacity..and my point is that
this is not because of Jawara or Yahya but because we have a resilient,
un-assuming but formidable people..and both Jawara and Yahya are typical.
I am proud of my people and our history and as an Engineer, I am proud of
the progress we have made in the past 30 years, foremost in developing our
sense of self, as one people with a common destiny, also our sense of being
an African people..I think our efforts and debate should be directed on
.....what we want to achieve from now on, given what we have achieved, our
resources, maximising our resources and getting what is best for our
peoples..
I cite the terminal as an example of us exceeding our selves..I think we
have consistently exceeded ourselves given our limitations of size, natural
and human resources...lately it has been reported that the economic
sanctions on The Gambia may be lifted by December citing our progress in
rule of law, human rights and democratization since the July ' 94 coup..I
am proud of our collective strength as a people and how we have succeeded
in keeping our society together all through...I do not for a second think
we are a Utopia but we have succeeded where many a richer and more
resourceful nation has failed..that is what I want us to always remember...
sorry I really did not mean to give a long lecture but I always try to keep
a perspective on things, something very important today could be trivial
tomorrow, nobody ever has a monopoly on right or wrong, truth, justice or
anything, in life..
my five peanuts to the Felchers
pmj
----------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 18:31:34 +0200
From: Amadou Kabir Njie <Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no>
To: "'Gambia-L@u.washington.edu'" <Gambia-L@u.washington.edu>
Subject: THIS IS SHEER DISRESPECT TO US ALL
Message-ID: <FBF1001D6A18D1118AC100A0C942F230A663@AVIA-A>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Ebrima Jawara wrote:
I think I have reached a stage where reading your mail turns me on to
the
point of sexual ecstasy. It has become an obssession of mine, waiting
for
your mail. I have all these fantasies. Thank you.
BTW I shall give your love to Sir Dawda.
PEACE.
EBS.
Is this the kind of bantaba that we want? Even in a real bantaba someone
is bound to stand up and say enough is enough when some member goes
beyond the limit!
This kind of behavior is sheer disrespect to us all; and I for one shall
not have it! If the list managers are not going to do something about it
then this bantaba is not worthy of my membership!
SO EITHER DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT OR DO ME A FAVOUR :
REMOVE MY NAME FROM THE LIST!..
I AM ASHAMED TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH A FORUM WHOSE STANDARDS HAVE
DEGENERATED TO THIS LOW!
A. Kabir Njie.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 18:29:14 +0100 (BST)
From: "B.M.Jones" <B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk>
To: bantaba <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: NO ROOM FOR INSULTS
Message-ID: <SIMEON.9710221814.A@p021.lib.hull.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I totally agree with you Kabir. This site should not be
used for trading insults. I am new to bantaba and if this is
the way we are going to engage in discussions then count me
out. No more mud slinging and insults, it is UNGAMBIAN. Let
us try and use decent language.
As I mention in my into. message we should use this forum
constructively in order to foster unity and harmony and
help our beloved nation move forward. An apology will be
highly appreciated.
peace
----------------------
B.M.Jones
B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 20:31:29 +0300
From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: FELCHING./ or ??? getting out of hand
Message-ID: <199710222329.UAA15159@qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mr.Jallow!
First of all,thanks a lot for your usually very condensed and interesting
run down of the latest from the ground down there.And secondly,I must
concur that the exchanges between Ebrima and Jainaba have become utterly
distasteful and beneath the level of the decency and propriety that we have
become used to and expect from our list members.So,please,jainaba and
Ebrima,let us try to move on! Both of you are extremely smart people;so,try
to channel your smartness into something the rest of us can enjoy and learn
from.
And keep up the good work down there!
Regards Basss!
>
> Folks,
> I have been quietly following this discourse and it is just completely
gone
> out of whack in my opinion..it is no longer educative or funny but seems
to
> start to descend in sheer insults and name calling..all jokes aside, I
> think the two principal parties should take a break....folks please live
> and let live..let us agree to disagree or even argue without being
without
> being nasty..
> so please folks, I am appealing for a pause in this spiralling
discourse..
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 10:34:31 PDT
From: "astrid christensen-tasong" <attatas@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: For Laughs.....
Message-ID: <19971022173435.11555.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi all,
This was sent to me by a friend...though I'd share it with y'all!
Who is Jack ****t?
When someone says to you, "You don't know Jack Schitt", you can prove
them wrong because you'll know all about Jack Schitt.
Jack Schitt is the only son of Awe Schitt, the fertilizer magnet, who
married Oh Schitt, the owner of the Kneedeep Schitt Inn. Jack Schitt
married Noe Schitt and they produced six children. Holy Schitt, their
first, passed on shortly after birth. Next came twin sons, Deep Schitt
and Dip Schitt, two daughters, Fulla Schitt and Giva Schitt, and another
son Bull Schitt. Deep Schitt married Dumb Schitt, a high school drop
out. Dip Schitt married Lotta Schitt and they have a son, Chicken
Schitt. Fulla Schitt and Giva schitt married the Happens Brothers. The
Schitt-Happens children are Dawg Schitt, Bird Schitt and Cowe Schitt.
Bull Schitt just married his second cousin Pisa Schitt. They now await
the arrival of Little Schitt.
Now you know Jack schitt....
Regards,
Astrid Christensen-Tasong
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 20:25:49 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: NO ROOM FOR INSULTS
Message-ID: <19971022182602.AAA14650@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Please Ebriam and Jainaba, I hope that you realize that your mails on
personal insults are distasteful to the rest of us on the list.
Please I would advise you to send your mails to each other outside
the list.
Peace
Momodou Camara
On 22 Oct 97 at 18:29, B.M.Jones wrote:
>
> I totally agree with you Kabir. This site should not be
> used for trading insults. I am new to bantaba and if this is
> the way we are going to engage in discussions then count me
> out. No more mud slinging and insults, it is UNGAMBIAN. Let
> us try and use decent language.
>
> As I mention in my into. message we should use this forum
> constructively in order to foster unity and harmony and
> help our beloved nation move forward. An apology will be
> highly appreciated.
>
> peace
> ----------------------
> B.M.Jones
> B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:35:57 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Casamance.
Message-ID: <19971022183557.17642.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Ebrima,
I am sure you feel the same way about your sisters, Mariam and
Fatoumatta, whenever you speak to them on the phone. So my advice to you
is to wait till Xmas....I'm sure you will enjoy the threesome.
BTW, are you sure that Mr. Jawara is your Dad???? Afterall, you may be
half Senegalese or Nigeria....think about that, son!!!!
Jainaba.
**********************************************************************
>I think I have reached a stage where reading your mail turns me on to
>the point of sexual ecstasy. It has become an obssession of mine,
>waiting for your mail. I have all these fantasies. Thank you.
>
>BTW I shall give your love to Sir Dawda.
>
>PEACE.
>
>EBS.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:06:49 +0100 (BST)
From: Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
To: Gambia Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: My appologies.
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971022204421.18904A-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
To all the members of the list.
I hope you will accept my appologies for what I realise was a distasteful,
crude and meaningless excercise. I am sorry for sending mail which should
have been sent privately.
Looking back at all the mail that was exchanged, I realise it was rather
childish.
I appologise for sending mail which has left many members appalled.
I assure you, mail of that nature shall never be sent by myself to the
list.
Yours humbly,
Ebrima Jawara.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: My appologies.
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96a.971022133543.39342A-100000@dante29.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Ebrima,
apology accepted but I do not think it should have gotten to
this in the first place. Any way, it is better late than never.
Good luck!
dawda singahteh
On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, Ebrima Jawara wrote:
> To all the members of the list.
>
> I hope you will accept my appologies for what I realise was a distasteful,
> crude and meaningless excercise. I am sorry for sending mail which should
> have been sent privately.
>
> Looking back at all the mail that was exchanged, I realise it was rather
> childish.
>
> I appologise for sending mail which has left many members appalled.
> I assure you, mail of that nature shall never be sent by myself to the
> list.
>
> Yours humbly,
>
> Ebrima Jawara.
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 17:55:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
To: Gambia <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9710221712.A22825-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hello Jabou,
you know me so well, I was just about to press the reply button when I
read the last line of your e-mail and just bursted out
laughing......people are staring as if I'm a freak!! oh well!!
On Tue, 21 Oct
1997 Gunjur@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Habib,
> l saw the program, but l must say that the number of wives was phenominal.
> However, l did admire the way they got along. lf that kind of positivism
> existed between co-wives in our society, it sure would have alleviated a lot
> of pain and strife between family members. l know a lot of the sisters on the
> list get upset when l say that there are advantages to this sort of practice
> for the women as well. For one thing, it allows you to get the guy out of
> your hair every so often. You can be married and still get to live a single
> life a few days at a time. l think that's ideal. Now, l'll wait for Ancha to
> jump in.
>
I don't see how one cannot just tell their spouse " I really just wannna
be alone today/right now, can we talk later?". I think when two people
plan on marrying, it should be only after they've gotten to know each
other well enough to be sensitive to each others needs. I don't see
why a woman would agree to SHARE HER husband (I like sharing, but there's
a limit) just to have some space. To the
women that are able to do this, I take my hat off to you. To my way of
thinking, if a woman can live with one man (generally the case), then why
can't a man?? I really don't see the advantages. What do you say to your
kids when they say "why is daddy hardly here??" or do you just hope that
people won't be cruel enough to tell them about their little mother(s) when
you're not there to explain??. Or when the other womans kids decide to
beat up
your kids, for whatever reason these misguided kids think it'll help. I
think
that if two married couples have problems,..........talk it out. Yep,
it's harder than it sounds, but nothing good comes easy. of I've noticed
that men tend to
get more furious when they find out that they're being played than women.
here's an idea, why don't women start practising polyandry (hope I spelt it
correctly) so that men can start getting used to the idea, before it
becomes common??? I mean, there's blood testing, DNA testing etc.
Shouldn't be hard finding out who your childs dad is!!! yes I'm trying to
be provocative. Actually, I can't see polyandry taking off at all, because
women
don't like much stress in their lives, hence one man is enough. My
point is, if a woman can make a comitment to a man, tries to know the man
better inorder to be sensitive to his needs and wants to try and work
things out, then why can't a man?? Instead of running off to marry
another woman (yes, Islam does permit it but only under certain
circumstances) or have an affair????
> <<Did anyone see the last B Walters program.
> I was surprised to find in the USA a very similar practice to the
> situation back home with men in similar situation. It seems perfectly
> acceptable to the women . One man even married two sisters !!!!!
> What do you think??
> Habib
I think the two sisters situation is sick. I've got an idea, maybe we
should have more men actively trying to help stop circumcision, (since the
main idea here is to please men) then people
might listen. I think we have a tendency at home for women to listen more
to men than women. Why do people think that is?? Or am I generalising too
much???? don't know the kind of reation that I'm going to get
with all the thoughts going through my head and straight onto the
screen........I feel like saying "beam me out Scotty" ( a little treker
humour). gotta go. Later!! COMMENTS??? Jabou??
Ancha.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 17:54:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ebrima Sall <ebrima.sall@yale.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: "Give A Book" : just an idea
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.94.971022171109.10102C-100000@mercury.cis.yale.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Habib Ghanim wrote:
Ebrima Sall wrote:
> > anybody who can persuade anybody else to donate books to The Gambia, or
> > get an institution based anywhere in the world to give books or related
> > materials for the libraries, as part of this campaign, would be encouraged
> > to do so.
> >
> > > >
> > So, I will listen to hear from you. I am sure many of you have much better
> > ideas!!!
> >
>
> > Ebrima.It sounds good but the cost of shipping those books could probably buy
> several computers which may help many students in almost any field of
> study through the internet. I hope some businessmen would take the
> initiative to do just that. Good idea.
> Habib
>
Habib,
Thanks, many thanks for making this important point. I agree with you on
the both counts:
i) the cost of shipping books to Gambia can be quite high;
for this reason, if we agree to go ahead with this idea, we may have to
look into ways of minising the cost of shipping the books (and any other
material) that we may want to send;
ii) we live in the age of an information technology revolution; therefore
universities or university or other kinds of libraries can, or rather
SHOULD no longer be started anywhere in the world today without taken into
consideration the fact that we live in the internet age.
However, I think one does not necessarily exclude the other. Hard copies
of books will be around with us for the foreseeable future! Ie, the
electronic media is not likely to totally replace the print media in the
near future, and there are advantages in having both.
What I find interesting in the idea of a campaign of the kind I am
talking about, is also the fact that it gives the possibility to EACH ONE
OF US to be actively involved, to CONTRIBUTE. So, there is both a
practical and a symbolic dimension to the issue. Campaigns help in
focusing attention, mobilising energies and creating synergy over a very
specific issue and for a limited amount of time.
Therefore, those who have the possibility of engaging business persons ,
or private foundations (there are about 40,000 foundations in the USA
alone, a significant number of which do make grants to support projects
in Africa), bilateral or multilateral cooperation agencies, etc etc and
persuade them to provide computers for the National or University
Libraries, it would be an excellent thing for them to do. At the same
time, I, who, by any stretch of the imagination, cannot see how I can
possibly become rich one day, I find it easier for me to buy a book and
donate it to the library. I can also try to see who or which organisation or
institution I can approach. And this, I think, we can all do, starting
with what we ourselves can do for our country in this specific,
collective venture (because I know that many of us are doing other very
important things for the country, somehow), and then trying to persuade
friends, the organisations etc we work for (where such a thing makes
sense), private philantrophy, business persons, etc etc etc to contribute
as well.
In some respects, this is a bit reminiscent of the "dekat" debate of a
couple of weeks ago. I think we can walk on several legs, while trying to
excel in the area where we think we have, or can have a comparative
advantage....
Have a good evening!
Ebrima.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:53:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: lamin marenah <keita@rocketmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: My Perspective..
Message-ID: <19971022215305.27005.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello,
It is written that in the absence of a
government, a state of anarchy will prevail. What we
had just averted was certainly leading to one. And my
resolution to this situation is that in order to
make sure that such a problem does not come up in the
future, some disciplinary actions could be taken by
all or by whoever is in authority.
This certainly was a classic case of
people's disregard of other people's privacy.I ask to
be added to the mailing list to share my thoughts
with respectable brothers and sisters.
In summary, i would like to ask the
operators or whoever is responsible to initiate some
precedence as to what material people could share. Am
certainly not calling for censorship but guiding
principles.
. In conclusion i would like to express my
gratitude to all those who contributed those
productively materials to the mailing list, keep up
the good work.
THANX
LAMIN MARENAH
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 23:48:41 +0100 (BST)
From: Ebrima Jawara <E.Jawara@reading.ac.uk>
To: Gambia Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: My perspective.
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971022234649.14028C-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
Once again I appologise for my behaviour, I admit it was not what is
expected of the members of the list.
With humility,
Ebrima Jawara.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 18:51:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ebrima Sall <ebrima.sall@yale.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: casa/religion/ethnicity --- PART I
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.94.971022180536.10102D-100000@mercury.cis.yale.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA wrote:
-------------------Hi
>
>> "... Senegal cannot afford instability. Therefore a lasting
settlement should be sought. I believe that Africa should be trying to find ways to
> come together and not disintegrate. The boundaries that were drawn by
> the colonialists were done to serve their interests and the continuation
> of those boundaries is at our disadvantage because most of the African
> countries are not economically, politically etc. viable entities.
> However, the politics of integration has to take a voluntary form if it
> is to have any meaning. People forced against their will to remain at a
> disadvantage within Senegal and any other African country cannot expect
> to be silenced forever. Their dissatisfaction will be temporarily buried
> but ready to blossom in the future.
>
> Thanks." Buharry.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buharry,
I fully agree with what you said on this issue.
I hope Tamsir will soon share Part II of his contribution to this debate
with us very soon. So far, he has yet to convince me because, contrary to
what he said, African conflicts of the post-independence period are not
predominantly conflicts over separatism: groups fighting to breakaway from
existing integrated territories/countries are still in the minority in the
total number of conflicts that the continent has experienced over the past
thirty years or so. Most conflicts have to do with basic issues of
democracy and internal self-determination. Many are the conflicts opposing
particular groups to over-centralised, authoritarian states, or with
so-called "democratic" regimes that have turned out to be incapable of
accomodating any form of difference, let alone dissent. Liberia, S/Leone,
Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo, Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, Somalia and
quite a few others would rather fall into this category than in the
category of conflicts such as the Biafra type.
Which is an additional reason why the Casamance conflict needs careful
examination. Casamance, Biafra, the Touareg conflict and a few others
(I do not include Eriteria and RASD/Western Sahara in this category,
because those were/are independence -- from colonialism or forced
annexation-- struggles) remain EXCEPTIONAL in Africa, at least from that
particular point of view. See DRC (former Zaire)? Even at the worst
moments of Mobutism, and in the four-year National conference, calls for
independence of this or that region were hardly ever heard. And yet Zaire
was one country where such a thing would be expected to happen. Instead,
people in Zaire were then discussing different types of federalism,
talking about a second independence, and so forth and so on.
In saying this, I am not at all making a statement on whether or not the
people have a case or not. That is for them to say. What I am saying is:
I think there is virtue in politics. At least in the world we know. I, for
one, think that we should give a chance to democratic politics, of
which forming parties and fair electoral contests are just two of the
constitutive elements, even if they are important ones. And I think the
type of integrated/united Africa we should aim for should be one in which
peoples are free of both bondage and poverty. Meanwhile, we can start
small, for the journey will be quite a long one...
Wa Salaam!
Ebrima.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 19:10:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hous@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: casa/religion/ethnicity --- PART I
Message-ID: <971022190823_-2064552960@emout04.mail.aol.com>
i like see good comments like those of brother mba.sometimes some comments
don't make any sense at all.well done mba.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 19:52:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: SANG1220@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: SANG1220@aol.com
Subject: INFO:
Message-ID: <971022194910_899376237@emout09.mail.aol.com>
Habib, you came to Cleveland and did not seek me out, am disappointed. I
called you saturday but you were unavailable. How the hell are you? and who
are you referring to as" uncle Dan" when you addressed Latjor? Just
wondering.
Thanks
Daddy Sang
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:28:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: BAKSAWA@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Casamance.
Message-ID: <971022212801_-1695713265@mrin42.mail.aol.com>
Jainaba & Ebrima:
Your postings during the last few days have been disrespectful, distasteful
and gone out of hand. Remember, for others to respect you, you have to
respect yourself first. Yes - there is freedom of speech and expression,
but when you go beyond the parameters, it becomes nothing.
You have each other's email address. Would you PLEASE honor us by sending
your overly explicit comments to each other through your private addresses?
I can't speak for everyone, but I for one, am disgusted with your "fued".
May Allah Bless both of you!!!
Regards to all.
Awa Sey
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 19:22:25 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: NO ROOM FOR INSULTS
Message-ID: <19971023022225.5436.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Decent Gambia-lers,
Sure, I do know that my last posting is distasteful even to myself.
However, what do you expect from me? send Ebrima a personal note of
gratitude for the "kind" remarks???
If he is man enough, he should have sent me a private mail. He probably
thought some of his "friends" would come to his aid, hence his choice of
a public forum for mud slinging.
Remember, it all started when I asked a simple question...he had an
option to respond yes, no or ignore my inquiry. He instead chose to
ridicule me in public...so what do you expect??
I'll henceforth stop the insults directed at him, since he has promised
to do likewise. However, calling Mr. D Jawara a Kleptomaniac, political
prostitute, the Czar responsible for three decades of economic genocide
of the Gambian etc. are all facts. Hence will use those terms where
necessary (if it pertains to the issue being discussed).
Please accept my apology for the previous posting (Re: Casamance).
Have a good evening, morning or whatever time it is in your neck of the
woods.
Cheerio,
Jainaba.
Show respect for age. Drink good scotch for a change.
**********************************************************************
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 03:47:09 -0700
From: Abdou Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: My Perspective..
Message-ID: <344F2B2D.F0AC0893@cs.columbia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi folks,
I think quite a few members have been expecting the list managers (I
am one of them) to put a stop to some of the personal postings we have
seen recently. In my personal opinion, the free market of ideas and not
some list Overlord should decide what should be discussed on Gambia-l.
Actually, the general membership of Gambia-l is doing quite well in
policing itself.
Generally, members know what is appropriate for discussion on
gambia-l. And judging by the fact that less than 1% of postings are
found "objectionable" by anyone, members do not need to be lorded over.
Additionally, if and when members post something objectionable, other
members invariably let them know. Remarkably, these offending members
almost always apologize. So Gambia-l is in fact a good "government".
Even in dry, technical discussion forums, personal attacks can be
common. So what is happening in Gambia-l is not exceptional considering
the 270 members that we have.
The above is not meant to condone or excuse personal attacks but to
argue for the existence of a list where people do not feel the threat of
some supervisor hanging over them. Given the history of censorship that
we have in The Gambia, I think we should celebrate the fact that people
are truly free to say what they like on Gambia-l even if it is
inappropriate.
Thanks and bye for now,
-Abdou.
> Hello,
> It is written that in the absence of a
> government, a state of anarchy will prevail. What we
> had just averted was certainly leading to one. And my
> resolution to this situation is that in order to
> make sure that such a problem does not come up in the
> future, some disciplinary actions could be taken by
> all or by whoever is in authority.
> This certainly was a classic case of
> people's disregard of other people's privacy.I ask to
> be added to the mailing list to share my thoughts
> with respectable brothers and sisters.
> In summary, i would like to ask the
> operators or whoever is responsible to initiate some
> precedence as to what material people could share. Am
> certainly not calling for censorship but guiding
> principles.
> . In conclusion i would like to express my
> gratitude to all those who contributed those
> productively materials to the mailing list, keep up
> the good work.
> THANX
> LAMIN MARENAH
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 00:54:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: MJawara@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: NO ROOM FOR INSULTS
Message-ID: <971023005401_40502607@emout06.mail.aol.com>
While the List Management may be pondering on how to resolve this cyberfight,
I'm anxiously waiting for a ' cease fire '.I ask that the gentlemen : A Kabir
Njie, and B.M Jones not to consider leaving the bantaba.You may find this
Cyberfeud repugnant, and rightly so, but I feel sure like all other
'sensitive' issues discussed before, FELCHERS will fade away soon.I'm
hopeful that it will be resolved...
M. K. Jawara.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 02:35:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Welcome New Members
Message-ID: <9710230635.AA30300@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hey Gambia-L,
I had hoped that I wouldn't miss any of the debates while I was away for a
few days but it happened otherwise. With almost 700 messages to go
through, I'm sure you can guess the feeling of that one. As it happened, I
lost most the recent messages due to a "quota" bridge over limit.
Any way, I would just like to welcome all the new members. I hope that you
find Gambia-L not only as an entertaing tool but also a learning
experience that can benefit you in some way.
Since we now have the power of the information age at our finger tips
.....what an accomplishment... let's use it to our advantage.
I would also like to thank Mr. Sall for his decision to finally join in
the discussions. And to all the regular contributors (Latjor & Co),
thanks for keeping things rolling.
Peace to all out there!
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
=========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:03:19 +0200
From: "Kaira Isatou Boubacar" <kaiisa@hs.nki.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Casamance.
Message-ID: <344F04C7.5D42@hs.nki.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jainaba Diallo wrote:
>
> Ebrima,
>
> I am sure you feel the same way about your sisters, Mariam and
> Fatoumatta, whenever you speak to them on the phone. So my advice to you
> is to wait till Xmas....I'm sure you will enjoy the threesome.
>
> BTW, are you sure that Mr. Jawara is your Dad???? Afterall, you may be
> half Senegalese or Nigeria....think about that, son!!!!
>
> Jainaba.
> **********************************************************************
>
Hi Jainaba,
Couldn't you see that this was what Ebrima had wanted all along. He was
taunting you all along just to make you angry. It's a kind of a trap and
you fell for it. He was just teasing you all along just to get you all
excited. Now both of you are being blamed. I bet he was having a good
laugh all along. He's not worth it . You're too smart for that(we fula
people are suppose to be *smiles*). So please stop it and concentrate to
more important issues on the list. I really liked your earlier postings.
>From someone who really admires you.
Isatou.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 11:32:02 +0100
From: Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: NO ROOM FOR INSULTS
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971023103202.0073dc84@golf.uib.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jainaba!
Apology accepted... and I appeal, please cool down for now (take Isatou
Kaira's advice). However, never rest to express the facts and stick ONLY to
them, however hard they may be - no one is going to hang you for that.
*P*E*A*C*E*
Abdou Oujimai
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 11:42:14 +0100
From: Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: THIS IS SHEER DISRESPECT TO US ALL
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971023104214.0072748c@golf.uib.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Brother Kabir!
Just hang on, please. I understand you very well. My experience of G-l is,
at most, people with such attitudes usually depart from the list
voluntarily. So let no one be a setback to the important contribution you
are making to the rest of us.
Will get in touch one of these days... am a bit caught up with work.
SI JAAMA!
Oujimai
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 12:59:15 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Olafiaklinikken Olafia <olafia@online.no>
To: <Gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: BACK TO BUSINESS
Message-ID: <199710231059.MAA02649@online.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello to all Gambia-lers, Now i am back to work with new ideas and
inspiration after several months of extreme business. My absence was due to
the fact that i was responsible for the co-ordinating and arranging of the
Fifth European Conference on Migrants and Ethnic Minorities against
HIV/AIDS. The conference was held in Oslo from the 10. - 14. October and
this years slogan is STRATEGIES FOR ACTION. Thre wre 22 countries
represented and a total number of 110 participants. I resume to work first
today and found plenty, plenty mails, what a home work to read over these.
Concerning the TRIVIA QUESTION: Where the name Gambia comes from or what the
word does mean. A.K. Njai=B4s relating sounds more sensible to than what we
learnt from our history books about Diego Cao, Diego GOmes and all the rest.
A.K. Njai=B4s narration reminds me of an explanation i heard when i was
younger concerning the word TOUBAB which means whiteman (sorry Torstein,
Asbj=F8rn, Andrea and all the rest I don=B4t mean to offend) Our Mandingo=
and
Wollof ancestors couldn=B4t pronounce the word TOO BAD properly regarding to
the whiteman due to slavery. Therefore they say TOUBAB or TOUBABO instead of
the correct pronounciation TOO BAD.
The name Gambia according to our "European" history books came from the
Portuguese language. The portuguese word for river is GAMBACHO and that is
how The Gambia got it=B4s name. Just a contribution to the trivia question.
I really did missed you all=20
With ind regards
Omar S. Saho
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 14:18:34 +0100
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: "Gambia L" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: upgrading...
Message-ID: <199710231219.OAA16786@d1o42.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Folks...,
I am utterly sorry if this is perceived as a violation of basic
nettiquette. I am simply attempting to borrow 90 seconds from all of you in
order to make my voice heard after a period of silence. I simply have no
time to send personal mails to individuals concerned, so I decided to take
all of it in one stride; besides, I have exactly 212 mails from you (I
might add) that are vying for my attention! All the same, I really have
no excuse! So i do beg your pardon. This piece will contain a mixture of
comments and (somewhat) personal messages, even as I limit severely the
length of the latter. Also, I must apologise beforehand should it be
perceived that I am holding onto past issues. I simply have not opened my
mail files for weeks. My principal comment here, prompted by a reaction to
Barry Mahon's contribution, is all the same, very relevant even now, in my
opinion.
A warm welcome to Amadou Kabir Njie (still struggling!!), Saul Gassama, and
all other new subscribers! [Gambia-l is indeed an effective Lost and
Found!]
THE SOMEWHAT PERSONALS:
BASS, I think you ought to at least acknowledge (to Koto Saul Gassama) that
it is a great leap forward to come all the way from those agric. projects
in Overmark/Yllemark (Finland) to Blackeberg (Sweden) and then to Gambia-l
before he eventually joins the peepers' paradise.
Mr. EBRIMA SALL. Well, it is great to see that you are getting active
somewhat. I expected you would get in touch as soon as you arrived in
Stockholm last August. I tend to think you owe me an explanation, brother.
It's been 20!! years, you know. Besides, I wanted eagerly to talk about the
AFRICA PARTNERSHIP conference with the hope that it could be something to
bring to this list not only for discussion but to IN FACT find out if we
could all collectively do something positive in relation to the
international theme the conference sponsored. Would you please, get in
touch?
THEO STENEVANG! Welcome on board. I am from Kartong and I have been in
touch with Anna Nilsson from Alingsċs and I know about their projects in
Kartong and I am in Stockholm - 15 minutes from Karolinska Institute. So
you know, get in touch, please.
THE COMMENTS:
Sister JABOU, you are right in that we should not start a war between
Gunjur and Kartong. But I needed to remind you that Gunjurian hegemony
cannot be tolerated in our region anymore. (We revolted when the late
Famara Wassa Touray seriously told former President Jawara that members of
his constituency could happily live on mangoes! The tyranny of (mere)
numbers needed to come to an end quickly). I have seen a lot relating to
Serre-Kunda. But reading Bass' very first provocation was enough indeed.
Serre-Kunda has difficulty deciding whether it is just an oversized
village or a borderless town. Growing in all directions like
nobody's-business, Gambia's army of the unemployed and revolutionaries,
bums and gangsters, yuppies and peasants, all rub shoulders in the daily
struggle to eke out a living from nothing. The hustle and bustle, and the
rhythm, space and pace of life in Serre-Kunda, the noise, the dust, the
traffic, is reminiscent of survival in Soweto - minus the violence.
Unless, Serre-Kunda puts its best sons and daughters into service for its
own sake, the promise seemingly inherent in its dynamism might remain just
a hollow promise. When its voters denied Halifa Sallah a chance to
represent them, this large village misplaced its soul. That is why it
cannot decide in which direction to grow!
FINALLY. Commenting on some remarks made by Mr. Barry Mahon, one subscriber
(I think it was Andrea. In my rush to read some of the 400+ mails, I
mistakenly deleted it immediately after reading) - also a "Toubabo" -
advised, among other things, of the need to be sensitive to the feelings of
us Gambians especially if one is just joining the Bantaba. The impression I
got (perhaps terribly wrong one) was that non-Gambians or rather, whites
who want to be respectable members of this forum need to be constantly
aware of what they write lest they offend the prejudices of some or all of
us even if they are simply expressing their opinion. I think that was a
very unfortunate piece of advice.
First of all, this forum will not be enriched if any group of
subscribers, irrespective of their skin geography, feel for ultra cultural
reasons the need to engage in self-censuring. Gambia-l is best served if
all of its members freely speak their minds on ANY ISSUE without fear of
disturbing any hornets' nest. Naturally, maturity demands that opinions be
expressed in a manner as respectable as is possible, and I want to believe
that anyone who gets wired into cyberspace is capable of doing that.
Quarrels, heated exchanges cannot possibly be avoided, but there is hardly
any reason why all of us (students, academics, professionals) cannot FOCUS
ON ISSUES. Eventhough we Gambians (and any other people for that matter)
MUST not tolerate contemptuous or racially biased remarks about ourselves,
it goes without saying that we also need to recognise that our very
background handicaps us in our attempts to organise democratically centred
and issue-oriented debates. [ MOST OF US GROW UP TO VOTING AGE WITHOUT EVEN
FOR ONCE ATTENDING A TRUELY DEMOCRATICALLY ORGANISED MEETING I.E WHERE
THERE IS FREEDOM OF OPINION, FREE ELECTIONS, UNBIASED AGE OR SEX
CONSIDERATIONS]. Recognising this does not make us any lessser (every
society has its catalogue of flaws); in fact learning to take, with
dignity, hard truths from people of a different skin colour, is probably
the best preparation for taking even more bitter truths from those of a
different language group, ethnic unit, or national identity in Africa. Of
course, every one must cultivate, a priori, a personality that recognises
and rests on mutual equality between women and men and between black people
and white people.
Secondly, living in the West, as most of us in this list do, implies a
constant awareness of and continual engagement with racial issues.
Inevitably, these must now and then find their way into our topics. But
that is no reason why whites on this list must give red-carpet treatment to
blacks in stating their opinions and views. I for one would feel more
comfortable if I am convinced that what you write is a true expression of
your mind; not a package of euphemisms laundered and ironed to appease my
sense of cultural aptitude! Anyone who does that, operates from a position
of inequality indeed. And that, like travelling faster that light, IS JUST
NOT ALLOWED.
So Andrea, Laura, Barry, Asbjorn, Torstein, and all the other "toubabolu"
say exactly what you want to mean. We will be able to handle it!
BTW, what is all this Bush List and Gampatriots about? Has the distribution
of information on Gambia-l been politicised? Why the need for guerillarism?
I have been out of touch, really. Can anyone kindly put me through the maze
(privately that is) PLEASE? I'll be grateful!
Modou Sidibeh, Stockholm.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 14:18:56 +0100
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: casa/religion/ethnicity
Message-ID: <199710231219.OAA16791@d1o42.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mr. GABRIEL NDOW, thanks for that piece on the Casamance crises. It is
really important and stimulating. As you correctly mentioned, I only made a
passing reference to Fr. Diamacoune being a catholic priest. This at a time
when the issue of the Ahmaddiya in Gambia was topical. I was painting a
nightmare scenario: A catholic priest leading a secessionist movement;
religious revival on the rise in the Gambia; and the growing power of the
Mourides in nothern Senegal (where politicians are made or broken by them).
[Prof. Sulayman Nyang made a comment on this in one Newsweek issue last
July, I think - good story, I believe, judging from where it came]. These
facts, condensed by other factors, may spell disaster for our region. That
is all I meant. It is regrettable if anyone thought I was suggesting that
the MFDC is a Christian movement. My propositions, even if they were
analytical, were only philosophically so. I did not attempt to discuss the
Casamance situation in any sense. If you recall, I also made another
passing reference to the same issue (in another posting) pointing at a
signifcant socio-psychological factor (that as far as I know, seems to have
escaped analysts) affecting the conflict. Namely, attitudes of Northerner's
toward the Casamancais that grew as a result of decades of master/servant
relations perpetuated by the severe economic exploitation of young
Southerner's in their work as domestic servants or garden boys invariably
in the North. The conflict, in this sense, is also a pure case of class
struggle.
Once again, thanks for the pointer. I also think it is time we discussed
the conflict thoroughly, to which effect I will try to make a contribution
if I find it necessary. I am quite sceptical though as to what some fellow
'netters' mean when they express the need to "come out with solutions".
(Hey, just put one and two together and figured you may be referred to as
Gabbi Ndow. In that case extend my best wishes to comrade Ousainou Mbenga,
whose name I found mentioned in relation to a demonstration held in D.C.
I'm wondering why he still is not wired!!).
Modou Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong.
----------
> Frċn: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@spelman.edu>
> Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Ämne: casa/religion/ethnicity
> Datum: den 14 oktober 1997 06:14
>
> Greetings:
> In view of the escalation of the fighting in our backyard -
> casamance - along with the rising number of deaths caused by
> the fighting, coupled with the thousands of displaced people,
> we will have to sooner or later start talking about some of
> the fundamental issues surrounding this conflict.
> While I am in agreement with Moe that we must offer solutions
> to our many problems, it is important to first make an effort
> to identify what the problems are and their causes. Only then,
> having thouroughly discussed these in an open and frank manner,
> can we begin to offer solutions. (I think Moe would be in
> agreement with me on this.)
> In a previous posting, Mr. Sidibeh, in calling for greater
> discussion on this issue touched, in passing, on the increasing
> involovement of religion in our political lives. On the
> Casamance conflict, he rightly pointed out that the leader of
> the Independence Movement is a catholic priest - Diamacoune.
> But I wonder if by pointing out this fact one ought to draw the
> conclusion that the MFDC is a christian movement. I am not
> suggesting that this is what Mr. Sidibeh was alluding to,
> however, the likelihood of one arriving at this conclusion
> is certainly possible. I therefore want to focus my attention
> in this piece on perceptions and how they may play a part in
> the situation in casamance as well as among gambians.
> I am not sure what the religious demographics of casamance is,
> but more than just focusing on the fact that the leader is a
> catholic, we should ask ourselves two important questions:
> 1. Does the movement/rebels identify with a particular religion?
> ( In this case roman catholicism) If so it would be reflected
> in their political manifesto, press releases, statements,...
> 2. Does the rank and file of the movement/rebels consist
> largely of members of a specific religious faith? (In this
> case, roman catholicism) If so it would be reflected if not
> from official government sources or news releases, at least
> in the names of the growing number of casualties on the
> movement's/rebels' side.
>
> What I have read, from an interview that FOROYAA did a few years
> ago,on the leader of the MFDC - Fr. Diamacoune - as well as news
> sources posted either on this list in days gone by, or currently
> on the 'Bush' list,christianity does not seem to be part their
> standard. How else could one rationalize the fact the the number two
> man of the MFDC, one Salif Sadio, or another top official, Mamadou
> Sane,are all non-christians(at least as far as their names suggests?
> Perhaps someone may have information leading to an opposite view
> to mine. If so please share it with the rest of us.)
> However, there is a perception that the casamance
> conflict does involve the clashing of islam and christianity.
> Especially since the leader happens to be a religious figure.
> After all he is a catholic priest.
> This strong perception, particularly from the northern part of
> senegal (and gambia, perhaps?), where power over the entire country
> truly lies, could play a significant role in the decision-making of
> the senegalese government. The powerful islamic brotherhoods (Mourides,
> Tarriqiyas, ...) that dominate the religious landscape of the
> north which also have significant political clout makes this
> possibility even more real. Note that I am speaking of perceptions
> and their possible influence in the conflict.
> Casamance is well known for its traditionalism. Indiginous
> religions are widely practiced in this area among the Jola,
> Manjak, Bassari, ... This has always been a bitter pill with
> christian and islamic evangelists in our sub-region. Could this
> fact have played a role in the decision-making of a
> pre-dominantly islamic senegalese government? For while Abdou
> Diouf is openly saying that his government is committed to a
> peaceful resolution of the conflict,a few days later the
> senegalese forces were reported to have attacked a rebel base.
> Of course I am not trying to be an apologetic for the 'rebels'.
> I am only focusing here on one side of the conflict - the
> dominant side.
> The ethnic make up of the casamance is actually similar to the
> rest of the senegambia. The difference lies in the numbers.
> While the north is significantly populated by wolof, lebu,serer, tukulor,
> mandinka, the south is largely populated by the jola, manjak, bassari.
> It is easy to see the ethnic tension that could be generated given that
> the seat of government and all its main arteries are centralized in
> the north. The ethnic mix as I pointed out above points the way to
> conflict. In my view, this factor is of more value in our evaluation
> of the conflict than to make it look like the south views religion
> as a factor in their struggle. When we look at the family names of
> the leaders of the MFDC, as well as the casualties reported on their
> side, one quickly observes that the overwhelming number are jolas!
> (Fr. Augustine Diamacoune - leader, Mamdou Nkrumah Sane - deputy leader,
> Salif Sadio - 'hard line guerrilla chief', Sarani Manga Badian (Badjan)
> - exec. committee member (killed), Edmond Bora - deputy leader
> (defected to gambia), Edgar Diedhiou (Jarju) - killed, ...)
> It matters not then whether the number one of the MFDC is a christian,
> the number two is a muslim, and so on. Ethnicity seems to play a more
> important role.
> I will stop here to hear what others have to say. There are many issues
> to examine. However taking one point at a time and clearing
> mis-perceptions along the way is a necessary step.
> Some of these issues are:
> 1) the reasons given by the MFDC for calling for and
> fighting for casamance independence;
> 2) senegalese government's stance against any calls for transforming
> the country's territorial integrity;
> 3) gambia's position and actions/non-actions, particularly in relation
> to the escalation of fighting;
> 4) Other nation's (like france) and international orgs (u.n., o.a.u.,
> ecowas,...) positions and diplomacies;
> 5) religious groups/leaders and their positions on the issue. E.g.
> Cardinal Hyacinthe Thiandoum of the senegalese arch-diocese's position
in favor
> of 'territorial integrity and national unity';
> 6) what were the two sides talking about and why did it break down;
> 7) the continuing 'house arrest' of Fr. Diamacoune and its impact on the
> talks (or lack of). Esp. judging from the hardline tone of Mamadou
> Nkrumah Sane, number two man of the MFDC. According to him, since
> Diamacoune is under 'house arrest', Diamacoune cannot speak for the
> MFDC, and that all talks are currently taking place 'on the ground
> through weapons'.
> 8) other important issues others on the list have which I have not
> mentioned.
>
> Folks, now that we are being kept abreast of developments on this
> conflict (especially in the 'Bush'), we need to begin discussing
> this issue in depth. The news forwards should serve more as a
> backdrop for our discussions. Remember, this is a 'Discussion Group',
> not a 'Silent Reading Group'!
>
> As far as I am concern, our freedom in the gambia is being threatened
> by the fighting south of our border. Judging from the heavy fire power
> being brought to bear by the senegalese government (over 3000 troops,
> new 105mm canons, ...), as well as the resolve of the MFDC to continue
> their struggle 'on the ground through weapons' there certainly does
> not seem to be an end to the fighting anytime soon.
> Someone once stated that 'the price of freedom, is eternal vigilance'!
> Let us not be found wanting in the latter when the former - our freedom-
> is being threatened.
>
> LatJor
>
------------------------------ |
 |
|
|
Momodou
Denmark
11635 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 15:44:56
|
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 09:00:02 +0000
From: "wendela@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Internet in the gambia
Message-ID: <v01510100b074bd3f6aca@[149.212.100.74]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sent by wendela@commit.gm (Wendela Van Bilderbeek)
via Commit
Hello everyone,
Can somebody explain me what is happening on the internet side in the
gambia. Still, to be connected here is quite expensive. How long is Gamtel
going to have a monopoly on these connections. If there is competition on
that side it would be better for gambians and they would have more easy
access. Sometimes I wonder if they realy want to develop this country.
Because of problems with Compuserve (I don't know what happend) I heard,
the ministry of INFORMATION in the Gambia is NOT connected to the internet.
And they are constantly organising big, expensive conferences and the like.
Can someone explain me this?
At the moment I am connected only to email, which is nice but not nice
enough for me. I don't have the money, like many other gambians, to get
connected fully.
Wendela
wendela
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:21:01 EST
From: "Alhagi Marong" <marong_a@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>
To: GAMBIA-L@U.WASHINGTON.EDU
Subject: please delist.
Message-ID: <199710231430.KAA12170@sirocco.CC.McGill.CA>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Dear List Managers,
I enjoyed being on the list for the past year, and thanks for your
hard work. I have recently completed my studies here and should be
heading home in a few days. Kindly delist me.
Thanks .
alaji.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:44:54 PDT
From: "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: E-mail Warning -Forwarded
Message-ID: <19971023174456.13664.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Subject: Fwd: E-mail Warning -Forwarded
>Subject: Fwd: E-mail Warning
>
>---Precious <weety@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > >>IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!
>> > >>>WARNING!!!!!! If you receive an e-mail
>> titled "JOIN THE CREW" DO NOT
>> > >>>open it! It will erase EVERYTHING on your
>> hard drive! Send this
>> > >>>letter out to as many people you can ...
>> this is a new virus and not
>> > >>>many people know about it!
>> > >>>
>> > >>>This information was received this morning
>> from IBM, please share
>> > >>>it with anyone that might access the
>> Internet.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Also, if anyone receives mail entitled
>> "PENPAL GREETINGS!" please
>> > >>>delete it WITH OUT reading it!! This is a
>> warning for all Internet
>> > >>>users -- there is a dangerous virus
>> propagating across the Internet
>> > >>>through an e-mail message entitled "PENPAL
>> GREETINGS!".
>> > >>>
>> > >>>DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY MESSAGE ENTITLED
>> "PENPAL GREETINGS"!!
>> > >>>
>> > >>>This message appears to be a friendly
>> letter asking you if you are
>> > >>>interested in a penpal, but by the time you
>> read this letter, it is
>> > >>>too late. The trojan horse virus will have
>> already infected the
>> > >>>boot sector of your hard drive, destroying
>> all of the data present.
>> > >>>It is a self-replicating virus, and once
>> the message is read, it
>> > >>>will AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to anyone
>> who's e-mail address is
>> > >>>present in YOUR mailbox!
>> > >>>
>> > >>>This virus will DESTROY your hard drive and
>> holds the potential to
>> > >>>DESTROY the hard drive of anyone whose mail
>> is in your in-box and
>> > >>>who's mail is in their in-box and so on.
>> If this virus keeps
>> > >>>getting passed, it has the potential to do
>> a great deal of DAMAGE
>> > >>>to computer networks worldwide!!!
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Please, delete the message entitled "PENPAL
>> GREETINGS!" as soon as
>> > >>>you see it! And pass this message along to
>> all of your friends,
>> > >>>relatives and the other readers of the
>> newsgroups and mailing lists
>> > >>>which you are on so that they are not hurt
>> by this dangerous virus!
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Please pass this along to everyone you know
>> so this can be stopped.
>> > >>>PASS THIS ON TO YOUR FRIENDS.
>> > >>>WARNING!!! This is a new virus going
>> around in the last couple of
>> > >>>days! DO NOT open or even look at any mail
>> that you get that says:
>> > >>>"Returned or Unable to Deliver"
>> > >>>This virus will attach itself to your
>> computer components and render
>> > >>>them useless. Immediately delete any mail
>> items that says this.
>> > >>>AOL has said this is a very dangerous
>> virus, and there is NO remedy
>> > >>>for it at this time.
>> > >>>Please Be Careful, And forward to all your
>> on-line friends A.S.A.P.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Forward this A.S.A.P. to every single
>> person you know!!!!!!!!!
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Greg Dimond
>> > >>>Informix Software, Inc.
>> > >>>Global Telecommunications
>> > >>>703-714-0608
>
>> > -----End Of Forwarded Message -----
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > <---- End Forwarded Message ---->
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 13:59:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: MJagana@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: THIS IS SHEER DISRESPECT TO US ALL
Message-ID: <971023135901_-1561253244@emout02.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-10-22 12:58:44 EDT, you write:
<< REMOVE MY NAME FROM THE LIST!..
>>
Have a nice day you are entitle to your opinions
Momodou J
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 11:17:07 PDT
From: "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!!
Message-ID: <19971023181708.5387.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Ebrima,
>
>I am sure you feel the same way about your sisters, Mariam and
>Fatoumatta, whenever you speak to them on the phone. So my advice to
you
>is to wait till Xmas....I'm sure you will enjoy the threesome.
>>BTW, are you sure that Mr. Jawara is your Dad???? Afterall, you may be
>half Senegalese or Nigeria....think about that, son!!!!
>
>Jainaba.
>**********************************************************************
WHAT IN THE NAME OF THE GOOD LORD, THE SMILE ON THE
COAST OF W.AFRICA, AND THIS LIST....IS GOING ON!!!!????????
JAINABA.....although i have never known you personally, i must
say that i am sincerely disappointed that you would engage in
such a tasteless exchange!!!!! at the least, i would have
expected you to ignore him like the son you call him when he
tries to attract your intellect in a negative manner..... i am
deeply offended to have this sent to me also,.....
EBS...COM'ON MEEEEEN!!!!!!!!,,,, I CAN REMEMBER COMMENDING YOU ON
THE WAY YOU STARTED OUT HANDLING JAI in a joking manner to
ease the tension (i thought), but you have gone way beyond
being arrogant and insulting to this list and it's members.
com'on guys, lets show some mature intellect and souls.this
would defy everything this list stands for, do you guys know
how many people are out there who get to see these
postings????? WE DO NOT WANNA BE JUDGED BY WHAT WE WRITE, if
this could very well tarnish all of our images.
***********************************************
may i take this opportunity to appologize for my dear brother
and sister to all whom their messages offended. i am sure they
will realize their mistakes, kiss and make up. I CANNOT
SOMEHOW HELP BUT FEEL GUILTY FOR THIS.
************************************************
Fellow g-lers and owners, i have had several of the messages
i thought i had taken care of sent right back to my in-box
from gambia-l. am i the only one experiencing this??? m. camara
and lat jor, could you please look into this.....
a very delated and dissapointed and angry NNNJJJAAGGGAA J....
****I DO STILL BELIEVE IN THE INHERENT GOODNESS OF MANKIND,I
WOULD NEED A SMILE TODAY........I DONT KNOW HOW I WOULD GET
IT>>>>>>>>>>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 13:43:27 -0500
From: "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!!
Message-ID: <199710231850.NAA23136@tower.itis.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi folks,
i'm writing to say a few words about the recent exchanges between Ebrima
Jawara and Jainaba Diallo.
we've certainly heard from both sides, as well as a number of Gambia-L
subscribers. both parties to the conflict have offered their apologies,
Abdou Touray (one of the list managers) has offered some good
list-management-side thoughts on the issue, and quite a few have expressed
their disappointment at the whole thing.
i think it's now time to move on. i'm not sure we stand to gain anything
more from everyone continuing to express their disgust at the whole affair.
the sooner we leave this behind, the more time we'll have to ponder other
important issues, such as Casa, and Ebrima Sall's idea for collecting books
for The Gambia. i fear that all these harsh criticisms will discourage
both Jainaba and Ebrima from giving their best to Gambia-L. i hope that
doesn't happen, because we all deserve their better sides.
i guess that's about all for now, and with your concurrence, i declare the
famous Ebrima-Jainaba debate adjourned sine die! ( i mean forever!) ;-)
have a great day!
Katim
----------
> From: NJAGA JAGNE <jagnen25@HOTMAIL.COM>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!!
> Date: Thursday, October 23, 1997 1:17 PM
>
>
> >Ebrima,
> >
> >I am sure you feel the same way about your sisters, Mariam and
> >Fatoumatta, whenever you speak to them on the phone. So my advice to
> you
> >is to wait till Xmas....I'm sure you will enjoy the threesome.
> >>BTW, are you sure that Mr. Jawara is your Dad???? Afterall, you may be
> >half Senegalese or Nigeria....think about that, son!!!!
> >
> >Jainaba.
> >**********************************************************************
> WHAT IN THE NAME OF THE GOOD LORD, THE SMILE ON THE
> COAST OF W.AFRICA, AND THIS LIST....IS GOING ON!!!!????????
>
> JAINABA.....although i have never known you personally, i must
> say that i am sincerely disappointed that you would engage in
> such a tasteless exchange!!!!! at the least, i would have
> expected you to ignore him like the son you call him when he
> tries to attract your intellect in a negative manner..... i am
> deeply offended to have this sent to me also,.....
>
> EBS...COM'ON MEEEEEN!!!!!!!!,,,, I CAN REMEMBER COMMENDING YOU ON
> THE WAY YOU STARTED OUT HANDLING JAI in a joking manner to
> ease the tension (i thought), but you have gone way beyond
> being arrogant and insulting to this list and it's members.
> com'on guys, lets show some mature intellect and souls.this
> would defy everything this list stands for, do you guys know
> how many people are out there who get to see these
> postings????? WE DO NOT WANNA BE JUDGED BY WHAT WE WRITE, if
> this could very well tarnish all of our images.
> ***********************************************
>
> may i take this opportunity to appologize for my dear brother
> and sister to all whom their messages offended. i am sure they
> will realize their mistakes, kiss and make up. I CANNOT
> SOMEHOW HELP BUT FEEL GUILTY FOR THIS.
> ************************************************
>
> Fellow g-lers and owners, i have had several of the messages
> i thought i had taken care of sent right back to my in-box
> from gambia-l. am i the only one experiencing this??? m. camara
> and lat jor, could you please look into this.....
>
>
> a very delated and dissapointed and angry NNNJJJAAGGGAA J....
> ****I DO STILL BELIEVE IN THE INHERENT GOODNESS OF MANKIND,I
> WOULD NEED A SMILE TODAY........I DONT KNOW HOW I WOULD GET
> IT>>>>>>>>>>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 13:33:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com>
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>, ;
Subject: Re: WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.971023131920.15707G-100000@saul2.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I do have anything new to add to the thoughts expressed by Katim and Abdou
Touray regarding the Ebrima Jawara/Jainaba Diallo incident. I personally
accept their apologies and request that future personal and unpleasant
exchanges of that kind to be directly addressed to the private email
addresses of the involved parties and not to the list.
I urge Mr Njie and Jones to stay on as this was an isolated incident
which is not typical of the traffic generated in this list.
Thanks
Tony Loum
*******************************************************************************
*******************************************************************************
Anthony W Loum 206-543-4360 Voice
Supervisor, Foster Business Libary 206-616-6430 Fax
University of Washington tloum@u.washington.edu
Box 353224
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
*******************************************************************************
*******************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:23:53 -0000
From: "jgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: E-mail Warning -Forwarded
Message-ID: <B0000012344@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sent by "Jorn Grotnes" <jgr@commit.gm>
via Commit
List,
Since I have already assumed the role of=20
warning against warnings, I'll repeat my
plead:
Don't re-distribute ANYTHING that comes
from a stranger on the net, asking you
in the following way:
>Forward this A.S.A.P. to every single
>person you know!!!!!!!!!
This is only a "joke", a "hoax" to see
how wide it can spread FUD (Fear,
Uncertainty and Doubt).
(Especially don't mail this type of mails
to mailing lists)
Indeed, maybe any mail with more than
three exclamation marks should simply
be ignored.
Thanks,
Jorn
Commit
The Gambia
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:08:11 -0700
From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: TRIVIA QUESTION
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971023200811.0068b65c@mail.interlog.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Apart from the oral narrative as brilliantly mentioned by one of the list
members, the origin of the name Gambia is hard to trace as far as I am
concerned. Many historians have tried to come up with an explanation of
the origin but they have not fully succeeded so far.
For example, according to Lady Southorn (The Story of the Groundnut
Colony, 1952), the first written reference to the Gambia was by Alvise de
Cadamosto in 1455. Cadamosto was a Venetian sailor under the direction of
Prince Henry the Navigator of Portugal. He set sail for the river Gambia
in search of gold in 1455. According to Southorn, it was during this
voyage that Cadamosto referred to the river as the "Gambra". However, she
fails to clarify how Cadamosto came up with the name.
Nevertheless, she argues that the reference to variants of the name can be
attributed to the writings of the early seventeenth century English
explorer called Richard Jobson. In reference to the river in 1620, Richard
Jobson wrote: "By all or the most part of Mappes and Cardes, and by some
called, by the name of GAMBIA, by others GAMBA, and by others sort set
downe GAMBRA, to which latter name being most frequent" (Southorn, 1952:26).
Southorn states that in the course of the history that follows Cadamosto's
sail of the river, various Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish, French,and English
writers used names, such as GAMBRA, GAMBO, GAMBOA, GAMBEA, and GAMBIA.
Furthermore, she argues that such variation in the spelling of the name is
the result of phonetic and bibliography. For example, she believes that
the Portuguese may have revived their phonetic spelling of the word which
may have been written originally as "GAMBRA" (ibid., p. 28). In addition,
she argues that the Portuguese may have read the "R" in manuscript as "I",
a mistake that she believes could have easily happened in those days.
In any case, it is my assumption that neither name mentioned above is the
original name of the Gambia. Nonetheless, if anything, the Europeans have
successfully altered the original version which I don't know myself.
What I do know, however, is that the name GAMBIA do confuse/rhyme with the
name ZAMBIA. In fact, such confusion often resulted in letters bound for
the Gambia showing up in Zambia and vice versa. For more details about
this confusion, see Berkeley Rice (Enter Gambia, 1967).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:59:42 PDT
From: "astrid christensen-tasong" <attatas@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-L@u.washington.edu
Subject: email warning
Message-ID: <19971024005943.16113.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi N'jaga,
FYI.... There's no way opening an email can erase info on your hard
drive. That email has been circulating for a couple of months. Just
ignore messages like that. It's a SCAM.
Regards,
Astrid
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 22:58:58 -0700
From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Yusupha Jatt "Payus"
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971023225858.0068b954@mail.interlog.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi! Payus,
I posted a reply to your enquiry about me but you never got back to me.
If at all you got my reply, please get back to me. If you did not, then I
must tell you that I am the same Bakary Gibba that you referred to
B. Paul Gibba
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 08:31:00 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
To: "'Gambia-L'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <9B236DF9AF96CF11A5C94044F321903110114C@dkdifs02.dif.dk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCE057.2959F870"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCE057.2959F870
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please, will the people responsible for Gambia-L be so kind to take me
out of the list. Un-subscribe me, if that is the correct word. I=B4ll =
not
be in Denmark for a month leaving today friday. I will contact the =
list,
when I=B4m back again. Keep the debate up. Reagards to all of you from
Asbj=F8rn Nordam
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:30:10 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Famara Saidykhan IBS96 <fsaidykh@vkol.pspt.fi>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New member
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971024112604.22555A-100000@vkol.pspt.fi>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Can you please add Lamin Jammeh in the list.Here is his e-mail address.
<wintersu@dlc.fi>.Thank very much.
Peace!
Famara Saidykhan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:07:40 GMT+1
From: "Famara A. Sanyang" <famaraas@amadeus.cmi.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Thanx for your consideration!
Message-ID: <AC9DE57005A@amadeus.cmi.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Brothers and Sisters,
It has been a long time. Welcome to our new members.
> On 11 Jul 97 at 22:55, binta@iuj.ac.jp wrote:
> > Welcome on board all new members. Madiba, we missed you! BTW,
> > does anyone know the whereabouts of List veterans Morro Ceesay,
> > Famara Sanyang, and the others 'at large'? I miss their
> > insightful views.
> >
> > Lamin.
Thank you very much Lamin, and others who have written to me directly
for your concern. I hope Lamin will soon join us again.
I have always been following the discussions, but, it was difficult
keeping abreast. I don't want to contribute without reading all the
relevant material send to the list. Since I was so much away from my
computer it became an "evil circle". I am now abreast, and hope to
have more time in a couple of weeks. I have been learning a lot from
the well written contributions.
Thanks to the subscription managers and administrators for keeping
things going.
As my friend Bass used to say "Keep up the good work down there".
BTW, I have realised that, we have another FAMARA on the list. I
will now be signing as Famara A. Sanyang, and I encourage my "Tomma"
(person with the same first name) to continue signing with his full
name. Welcome Tomma.
Have a pleasant weekend.
Shalom,
Famara A. Sanyang.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Famara A. Sanyang
Chr. Michelsens Institute (CMI)
Development Studies and Human Rights
Fantoftvegen 38,
N-5036 Fantoft, Bergen, Norway.
Telephone: 47 55574375 Priv. 47 55289124
Telefax : 47 55574166
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 06:54:55 PDT
From: "Jobst Münderlein" <joppl@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: CFP: Censorship: An International Encyclopedia
Message-ID: <19971024135457.3405.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear members on the gambia-l list please see the part on West Africa
They are looking for someone who can write an article about Kenneth
Best. Some of you might be interested. Cheers Jobst Münderlein
>I am currently seeking contributors for a two-volume project:
>Censorship: An Encyclopedia, to be published by Fitzroy
>Dearborn Publishers in 1998. I am particularly interested in
>finding authors for entries on the topics listed below. If
>you would like more information about this project, please
>email me at fitzroy.dearborn@virgin.net, placing the word
>"censorship" on the subject line, and including your postal
>address, phone/fax numbers, etc.
>
>Derek Jones, Editor, Censorship: An International Encyclopedia
>
>COUNTRY ENTRIES
>East Africa
>Eritrea
>Somalia
>Sudan
>Tanzania
>Uganda
>
>West Africa
>Ghana
>
>Central Africa
>Burundi
>Congo
>Equatorial Guinea
>Zaire
>
>Southern Africa
>Angola
>Madagascar
>Mauritius
>Seychelles
>
>ENTRIES ON INDIVIDUALS OR WORKS
>General
>Afrique Nouvelle, newspaper
>The Mad Masters, film dir Jean Rouch 1954
>
>East Africa
>May God give you a Counselling Mother, novel Negede Gebre-
>Abre, 1958
>Oromai, reportage, Baalu Girma, 1982
>Beyond, political magazine, editor jailed 1988
>Cry for Justice, play, Al Amin Mazrui, 1982
>Fotoform, publishing house
>Kenyegenyun, song & dance 1922
>Muntu, play, Joe de Graft 1982
>Sweet & Sour Love, novel, Nuruddin Farah, 1970
>Abdullah Rage Taraweh, poet
>Charming & Impossible, poem/song, Maghoub Sharif
>Haraz & Rain, play Sidiq El-Malik 1980
>The Myth of Freedom, poems, Anai Kelneljang, 1968,
>
>West Africa
>Kenneth Best, journalist
>Kofi Awoonor, poet/novelist
>Catholic Standard, newspaper banned 1985
>Free Press, editor/staff detained 1985
>The Pioneer, newspaper staff arrested 1983
>Fodeba Keita, poet/songwriter "disappeared" 1970s
>Camara Laye, novelist, exile
>Daily Observer, often closed 1980s
>Christine Anwanyo, journalist imprisoned
>The Guardian, newspaper proscribed, 1993
>Heroes, novel, Festus Iyayi
>Newswatch, weekly paper closed 1986
>Sopi, newspaper prosecuted 1989
>La Crise de l'education, Yves Emmanuel Doghe 1975
>
>Central Africa
>Cameroon Post, banned 1990
>Pius Njawe, newspaper editor
>Rene Philombe, poet, arrested 1967
>The Prisoner without a Cause, autobiography, Albert Mukong
>Thomas Koazo, journalist imprisoned 1986
>Front Commun, opposition newspaper
>In Search of Liberty, novel, Jean-Pierre Makouta-Mboukou
>Jazz & Palm Wine, stories, Emmanuel Boundzeki Dongala
>Kinyamateka, newspaper suspended
>The Death of the University, Tanandu Bisikiri
>Helene/Sous alimentation sexuelle, song, Luambo Makiardi
>Wamba die Wamba
>
>Southern Africa
>Jose Viera da Greca, writer in prison
>Chief, the Honourable Member, novel, T.M.Aluko, burnt 1977
>Felix Mathali, poet & academic, 1974
>Odi, Journal
>The Engagement, novel, Lindo Lhongo 1971
>The Namibian
>Africa Addio, film, whites only, 1976
>Africa, My Beginning, poems, Ingoapele Madingoane, 1979
>Julian Bahila, et al, jazz trio, exile 1979
>Bandwagon, newsletter banned 1974-6
>Steve Biko, campaigner; play about his murder banned
>Christine, play, Bartho Smit, 1971
>Don Matera, journalist, novelist, 1970s
>Magersfontein, o Magersfontein, Etienne Leroux
>Raven Press, publishers
>South Africa Commercial Advertiser, 1830s
>Staffrider, magazine
>Sunday Express, defied code of conduct, 1963
>Taurus Publishers
>Turning Wheels, MGM film shelved 1963
>Vrye Weekblad, newspaper censored 1980s
>Zulu, film forbidden to Zulus, 1966
>Black Mamba, play, Kabwe Kasoma, 1970s
>Flame, film dir Robert Bright/Ingrid Sidat
>Gays and Lesbians of Zimbabwe, forbidden to exhibit, 1995
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 16:26:59 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New member
Message-ID: <19971024142742.AAA46244@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Lamin Jammeh has been added to the list. Welcome to our Bantaba in
cyberspace. Please send a brief introduction to
gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Momodou Camara
On 24 Oct 97 at 11:30, Famara Saidykhan IBS96 wrote:
> Can you please add Lamin Jammeh in the list.Here is his e-mail
> address. <wintersu@dlc.fi>.Thank very much. Peace! Famara Saidykhan
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:11:55 -0500
From: "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Internet in the gambia
Message-ID: <199710241622.LAA26218@tower.itis.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi folks,
i suppose this is a good point to jump in and speak to a few issues about
the Internet in The Gambia.
1. in an earlier (Oct. 16) posting Omar Gibba said:
>
> As far as I know, nothing has been mentioned about Katim's proposal,
> (Sending a FAX over the Internet)to find out possibilities to connect or
> include Gambia in the area covered. I think this is an opportunity we
> have to exploit. I have tried the program at least three times, it is
> very handy and fast, you also get a feedback as to whether the fax is
> successfully sent or not.
> Please try it.
>
from a technical standpoint, it should not be that much of a big deal to
set-up a fax-server in The Gambia. the problem, though, would be that it
seems we presently have a less-than top-notch Internet connection to The
Gambia, as well as some very retrogressive pricing policies for
telecommunications services from Gamtel.
i'll take the second point first, and save the first issue for later.
Gamtel has terrible pricing policies, as evidenced by the fact that most
phones in The Gambia are under lock and key! it's really crazy. i mean
why would you invest huge sums of money on an insfrastructure that
depreciates with time, and at the same time discourage it's full use.
afterall, if a lot of people are refraining from calling their friends
because it is very expensive, the equipment still sits there doing nothing.
the high costs of phone services in The Gambia will be the number one
problem to be addressed by any attempts at getting an Internet fax service
there. this is for the simple reason that local delivery of a fax still
has to go through the phone system, meaning Gamtel in this case. thus, we
have to ask who will be willing to pay for each fax delivered in The
Gambia, even if we had a computer to hook to the Internet fax network.
also, the high costs would discourage anyone for participating in what is
essentially a volunteer-run system. finally, Gamtel would stand to loose a
bundle of money because calls that would ordinarily have been made using
the regular phone system would be routed through the Internet, and thus
Gamtel would not get their cut from whatever charges would have been
levied. in short, an Internet fax service in The Gambia will have to wait
for the conception and implementation of progressive ideas in developing
telecommunications in the country. stay tuned.
2. Wendela, on Oct. 23, said:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Can somebody explain me what is happening on the internet side in the
> gambia. Still, to be connected here is quite expensive. How long is
Gamtel
> going to have a monopoly on these connections. If there is competition on
> that side it would be better for gambians and they would have more easy
> access. Sometimes I wonder if they realy want to develop this country.
> Because of problems with Compuserve (I don't know what happend) I heard,
> the ministry of INFORMATION in the Gambia is NOT connected to the
internet.
> And they are constantly organising big, expensive conferences and the
like.
> Can someone explain me this?
>
> At the moment I am connected only to email, which is nice but not nice
> enough for me. I don't have the money, like many other gambians, to get
> connected fully.
Wendela, my heart goes out to you. please hang in there, and i hope we
will find a way to get full Internet connectivity for The Gambia in our
lifetimes. we certainly need to find a way to connect The Gambia
adequately, from the perspective of capacity (how many people can
simultaneously log on to the rest of the world), affordability (how many
people, businesses, and organizations can afford it?), and reliability (is
it going to be another GUC, or whatever that agency is now called?).
judging from what i've been hearing, it seems we have a long way to go in
developing Gambian links to the Internet. i've always felt that getting
Compuserve as partner in connecting us to the Internet was ill-advised.
this is because of the simple reason that Compuserve has been a
proprietary, stand-alone network that was, until a few years ago, not
Internet-enabled. in addition, Compuserve was owned by HR Block, a tax
consulting firm that I'm pretty sure was more into helping people figure
out their taxes than getting folks in The Gambia on the Internet.
in my mind, we partnered with an organization that was, the truth be told,
also learning to grapple with the Internet. in the event, they stumbled,
as evidenced by their acquisition and break up by Worldcom. so, are we
going with the part of Compuserve (individual users) that was sold to
America Online, or are we going with the rump (business services) that goes
to Worldcom? either way, we won't count for much.
rather than stop at being critical of what's been done, i would go on to
suggest some ideas about how we can get connected. first, Gamtel should
seriously look at what it can do with it's pricing policies to encourage
the expansion of it's user base. they should cut prices! second, we
should contemplate a long-term strategy for developing Internet
connectivity for The Gambia. this strategy might also be expanded to
include the whole issue of telecommunications and information technolgies
in The Gambia. such an excersice would enable us consider the ongoing and
evolving needs of the country, and at the same time factor in the
continuously changing technological environment. the danger here would be
to fall in the analysis-paralysis trap. that we analize the issue to
death, and not start *doing* stuff is a real threat.
i'll stop at that for now. have a great weekend!
Katim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:53:53 PDT
From: "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: email warning
Message-ID: <19971024165353.5661.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Hi N'jaga,
>
>FYI.... There's no way opening an email can erase info on your hard
>drive. That email has been circulating for a couple of months. Just
>ignore messages like that. It's a SCAM.
>
>Regards,
>Astrid
*****************************************************
Thankzzzzz!!!!!!!!! bro!!!!!! Astrid........
talk about crying WOLLLLLFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....HOW ARE electronic
ignorami like me to know.!!!?????? i apologizzzeee to everyone
i sent it to.
THANKZZZZZZ AANCHA, YOU did make me SMILE.
nnnjjjjaaggaa
yo'all have a nice weekend.. it is home comming for me and i
won't log on again untill probably tuesday. smiles all AROUND
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:44:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: MSarr27100@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: demonstration at Gambian embassy
Message-ID: <971024194424_1590536079@mrin40.mail.aol.com>
Jali Baa and the coalition of Gambians against torture and repression is
calling on all Gambians and friends of Gambia to converge on the doors of the
Gambian Embassy on Thursday, October 30, 1997 from 12:00 noon to 2:00 PM, in
unanimous chorus, to denounce the barbaric behaviour of Yaya Jammeh and his
thugs in the NIA.
The September 25th demonstration was very successful, indeed. For two hours,
demonstrators called out to the regime to give FREEDOM to the Gambians, to
stop this rule by intimidation; they charge this regime with murder, torture,
political repression, thievery from the very people they proclaim to save
from corruption; The marchers demanded answers to the questionable deaths of
KORO, SADIBOU, the imprisonment of opposition party members, the torture and
brutality perpetrated against the Gambian people.
Let us continue voicing out our concern regarding the criminal acts engaged
in by military leader, the NIA's blatant disregard for human rights as
witnessed by the treatment of opposition party members; the stolen $27
million that is yet to be returned or answered to by Yaya Jammeh and his
cronies; the unattended issue of KORO CEESAY'S questionable death, SADIBU
HYDARA'S questionable death - their deaths deserve investigation and the
perpetrators brought to justice - and those currently jailed for being in
opposition to this regime.
Don't wait until it happens to your own to step to the plate - let's do it
now and avert it in the future!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 22:22:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: "Give A Book" : just an idea
Message-ID: <971024222047_127546947@emout06.mail.aol.com>
This is another great idea, and infact, this brings me to something l was
about to write to the list for advice/feedback. A friend of mine, Dr. Mary
Mbosowo, a Nigerian and head of the Foreign Lannguages Dep't at Tennessee
State University, here in Nashville, has started leading a group of students
from five area universities to Gambia every summer. This program is a five
week independent study project that has become very popular, but most
important of all, these people have fallen in love with our country and have
been touched by the many young intelligent Gambians they have met.
Dr. Mbosowo told me that Tennessee State University would like to get
involved in helping in the education field in Gambia. They say that they can
donate books, computers, etc, and would also like to do something in the area
of student and faculty exchanges. They are ready and willing to assist in any
way.
She asked me to suggest the best way to initiate this project. My initial
thought was for them to contact Satang Janneh ( they are going to Gambia in
Dec. to sign contracts for hotel accomodation this summer) . However, some of
you out there may have better ideas on how to proceed and who to contact. l
think that Mr. Sall's ideas on the donation of books could be one aspect of
this project. Please! please! let me hear your ideas.
Jabou Joh.
In a message dated 10/21/97 11:15:07 PM, you wrote:
<<Ebrima Sall wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I've been toying with an idea, and I want to get your views on it.
>
> I was thinking that we could launch a campaign for getting books for the
> University of Gambia and/or for the Gambia National Library. This would be
> very simple: urging all those who can do so to send at least one book to
> to the University Library, or to the National Library. Something like a :
"Give A
> Book" campaign.
>
> We all know how important documentation is to any university, not to say
> to a country. And I know from my experience with CODESRIA that
> access to good documentation is one of the main problems facing
> academic and other institutions of learning in Africa today.
> In a private exchange of e-mails a few weeks ago, Katim and
> I were saying how rich American universities are, when it
> comes to documentation, and Katim was advising that I use my stint at Yale
to make
> the most of what that university has to offer in that regard (I hope Katim
> does not mind my sharing this piece of advice with list members).
>
> I think it will require much more than donations of a couple of books by
> Gambians and "Gambianists" to develop the resources of the University of
> Gambia into something significant. But if each one of us was to buy
> at least one book that we think is important, or relevant to what
> people in The Gambia are working on or may be interested in, and send it
> to the University or National Library, I think the gesture would be
> important, and it may help in improving, somewhat, the quality of the
> documentation available to Gambian students and researchers based in the
> country.
>
> Those who can buy and send more than one book can obviously do so. The
> campaign would also not be restricted to Gambians, or to individuals:
> anybody who can persuade anybody else to donate books to The Gambia, or
> get an institution based anywhere in the world to give books or related
> materials for the libraries, as part of this campaign, would be encouraged
> to do so.
>
> I have also always been wondering why people writing masters or
> PhD dissertations on Gambia, or on issues that Gambians might be
> interested in, do not always donate at least one copy of their work to the
> National Library. This applies to those who write books. I once asked the
> Chief Librarian (or whatever she is called) of the National Library why
> she is not trying to get people writing dissertations on Gambia to send
> her copies of their work for the Library. Her answer was something
> like: she had tried but did not succeed. Anyway, I think this would be a
good way to get knowledge generated in an
> area somehow connected with the Gambia to be ploughed back into the
> country.
>
> Books to be sent can be of any discipline or subject of relevance
> (or, let's say, of interest, or potential interest to Gambians). And,
> as stated above, those who have not written dissertations or are not in
> academia can simply buy any book they find important or interesting for
> people in The Gambia, on any subject--from physics to
> philosophy and music--and send it. The books could reference books, text
> books, essays, etc. The exercise could be repeated every year, say at
> about the time that the adademic year begins, i.e. September-October. As
> time goes on, we could be setting targets of, say, sending such and such a
> number of books, of this or that type, and related material, to this or
> that institution, reaching such and such a number of students, teachers,
> trainers, and other interested readers.
>
> And so forth and so on....
>
> For the campaign (if it ever gets off the ground) to be effective, we
> would have to prepare it well--get the addresses of the University
> Library, and the National Library, get in touch with the people there,
> etc. If we can get to know which books are most needed, that would also be
good.
> I guess this would be something a structure like the Education Committee
> could do, with the assistance of list members. The whole thing would
> require some coordination, and we should be able to keep track of what is
> going on in the broad framework of the campaign...
>
> Please let me know whether all this makes sense. I have been struggling
> with the idea for some time. And then I mentioned it to Katim, Latjor,
> Momodou, Amadou, Sam and a few other friends, some some of whom succeeded
in making
> me believe that it is not as crazy an idea as I tend to think it is, thus
> giving me the courage (!?!) to send it out to you all!
>
> So, I will listen to hear from you. I am sure many of you have much better
> ideas!!!
>
> Have a nice evening.
>
> Ebrima.It sounds good but the cost of shipping those books could probably
buy
several computers which may help many students in almost any field of
study through the internet. I hope some businessmen would take the
initiative to do just that. Good idea.
Habib
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From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: "Give A Book" : just an idea
References: <Pine.GSO.3.94.971021160932.6734E-100000@morpheus.cis.yale.edu>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 23:14:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives (fwd)
Message-ID: <971024231229_714829271@emout10.mail.aol.com>
Ancha,
Yes, l do think that two husbands would be quite a nightmare for a woman.You
know, l never used to consider polygamy as acceptable. Infact, when l was
married, my former husband can tell you that l was never very tolerant of any
behaviour that might imply flirtation of any sort. l think my views on the
subject now is due to this new-found over-self confidence l have, such that l
feel l would not feel threatened by such a situation. l think the other
aspect of it is a religious one. However, l wonder if l could actually go
through with it if the situation presented itself. l mean, l instinctively
think monogamous in a relationship and actually wonder if l could find a way
to make room in there for someone else. Just some frank thoughts.
Jabou.
In a message dated 10/23/97 1:59:20 AM, you wrote:
<<
Hello Jabou,
you know me so well, I was just about to press the reply button when I
read the last line of your e-mail and just bursted out
laughing......people are staring as if I'm a freak!! oh well!!
On Tue, 21 Oct
1997 Gunjur@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Habib,
> l saw the program, but l must say that the number of wives was phenominal.
> However, l did admire the way they got along. lf that kind of positivism
> existed between co-wives in our society, it sure would have alleviated a
lot
> of pain and strife between family members. l know a lot of the sisters on
the
> list get upset when l say that there are advantages to this sort of
practice
> for the women as well. For one thing, it allows you to get the guy out of
> your hair every so often. You can be married and still get to live a single
> life a few days at a time. l think that's ideal. Now, l'll wait for Ancha
to
> jump in.
>
I don't see how one cannot just tell their spouse " I really just wannna
be alone today/right now, can we talk later?". I think when two people
plan on marrying, it should be only after they've gotten to know each
other well enough to be sensitive to each others needs. I don't see
why a woman would agree to SHARE HER husband (I like sharing, but there's
a limit) just to have some space. To the
women that are able to do this, I take my hat off to you. To my way of
thinking, if a woman can live with one man (generally the case), then why
can't a man?? I really don't see the advantages. What do you say to your
kids when they say "why is daddy hardly here??" or do you just hope that
people won't be cruel enough to tell them about their little mother(s) when
you're not there to explain??. Or when the other womans kids decide to
beat up
your kids, for whatever reason these misguided kids think it'll help. I
think
that if two married couples have problems,..........talk it out. Yep,
it's harder than it sounds, but nothing good comes easy. of I've noticed
that men tend to
get more furious when they find out that they're being played than women.
here's an idea, why don't women start practising polyandry (hope I spelt it
correctly) so that men can start getting used to the idea, before it
becomes common??? I mean, there's blood testing, DNA testing etc.
Shouldn't be hard finding out who your childs dad is!!! yes I'm trying to
be provocative. Actually, I can't see polyandry taking off at all, because
women
don't like much stress in their lives, hence one man is enough. My
point is, if a woman can make a comitment to a man, tries to know the man
better inorder to be sensitive to his needs and wants to try and work
things out, then why can't a man?? Instead of running off to marry
another woman (yes, Islam does permit it but only under certain
circumstances) or have an affair????
> <<Did anyone see the last B Walters program.
> I was surprised to find in the USA a very similar practice to the
> situation back home with men in similar situation. It seems perfectly
> acceptable to the women . One man even married two sisters !!!!!
> What do you think??
> Habib
I think the two sisters situation is sick. I've got an idea, maybe we
should have more men actively trying to help stop circumcision, (since the
main idea here is to please men) then people
might listen. I think we have a tendency at home for women to listen more
to men than women. Why do people think that is?? Or am I generalising too
much???? don't know the kind of reation that I'm going to get
with all the thoughts going through my head and straight onto the
screen........I feel like saying "beam me out Scotty" ( a little treker
humour). gotta go. Later!! COMMENTS??? Jabou??
Ancha.
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
>From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Oct 22 17:55:47 1997
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From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: twenty/twenty friday -One man many wives (fwd)
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 00:11:47 -0500
From: Francis Njie <c3p0@xsite.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Internet in the gambia
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971025001147.006d6780@xsite.net>
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To add to Katim's response and Wendela's inquiry...
I believe Gamtel's alliance with Compuserve was dumped (for reasons I'm
still unclear about) back in the spring and that Gamtel has since signed a
similar contract with Delphi.
Commit Enterprises, to my knowledge the only Gambia-based ISP in direct
competition with Gamtel, offers full Internet services (e-mail, ftp, www)
within the Gambia and only e-mail between the Gambia and abroad (due to
bandwidth and connection cost restrictions I'd imagine). Commit's pricing
scheme, given Gamtel's rates, also seemed more reasonable at their
unveiling back in the spring, something the Ministry of Information could
look into if they haven't already.
Also, the government recently (some 2-3 months ago) agreed to a UNDP-funded
project for an initial ISDN (128Kbs) gateway to the Internet. Subsequent
bandwidth increases were also planned at the time.
- Francis
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 02:54:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: "Give A Book" : just an idea
Message-ID: <9710250654.AA47226@st6000.sct.edu>
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Since this is my first message to the list since I came back, I will try
to make it short and simple. Mr. Sall's idea of donating books sounds very
acceptable to me. I begin to imagine how we can actually initiate a
helping gesture to our libraries and High schools back home. For those who
think that this could be an expensive task, let's think about the
alternatives. Providing financial fundings in the way of monetary
donations is Ok but it's a long process. First you have to collect the
money, then send it to somewhere where there is no telling in whose hands
it going to fall in. If the funds fell into the right hands, then maybe
some would be done with it.
I think we need to remember that this is 'hard copy' material we are
talking about here. For many of us who are in colleges and universities in
the U.S and around the world, we the ones who can contribute the major
role in this idea. Most colleges nowadays will recycle older text books as
more textbooks become electronically (as in online documentation)
published. These older textbooks would create some great help if we can
ship them back home to our libraries and High schools. If you can find out
from your colleges and universities, what they do with their old library
books, they will probably tell you that they recycle or throw them away. I
know that I use to see old textbooks lying around in hallways ready to be
thrown away all the time (I confess, I didn't pick them up :-))).
This IMO is probably one of the easiest steps we can take if we are to
help the libraries and schools in the country. Please undeststand that I
also know that most of you are helping by sponsoring and paying for the
education of many pupils (families and friends) out there. However, this
idea of sending old textrbooks will be an added value to your already
existing aid. Some people will think that it is too much to send a package
of textbooks back home but don't you have to pay the price 'for a good
education'? These old textbooks are the books that the so-called
"civilized world" have used to dominate what they dominate today ( e.g
science, engineering, Information Technology and so froth). I hate to say
it but we start by picking up what 'they' have out-used just as how it has
always been. We have to start from somewhere, and surely we cannot expect
to catch up with the 'information technology' battle without a sacrifice.
Those who can send money, fine; those who can send software and computer
peripherals, that's even better (aren't the computers that changed the
world? :-).
All this comes down to one thing: that we shouldn't throw the idea of
sending home old textbooks. The schools in our country could benefit a
great deal from this appeal. We constantly talk about the need for
industrial development( which is good) but how can we change if we do not
invest in the leaders of tomorrow - our kids today? Let's think about that
since we have a long catching up to do. Just for musing, when will have a
computer in every home of the Gambians? Or, when will we have a 75-100
percent literacy rate? Better yet, when will we have an affordable
education for all, no matter what status classification you are? Like I
said before, I think that we have a long catching up to do. Don't you?
I think I will respond to Jaboh's equally important idea of linking up our
schools with the outside schools of the world. Very interesting.
Oh no...this turned out to be longer that what I promised. I guess
sometimes you get carried away too..uh?
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
===========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 16:19:21 +0100
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: commendations>>>>>>
Message-ID: <199710251424.QAA03608@d1o42.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mr. Jagne, you wrote:
.... when the senegambian
> confederation broke up, PDOIS 'S criticism of jawara surprised me.
> i though they should have known better. Diouf suceeeded in what
> his mentor failed Senegal was virtually ruling the gambia with
> the agreement (in the conf. constitution) that only the Senegalese
> head of state could be the cofederation leader. i agree jawara
> had his interests in mind when he negotiated with Diouf to
> restore him. when he finally amnaged to undo his error i placing
> the gambia in the hands of senegal, PDOIS should have given
> him credit. just because of that, i became cynnical of their
> teachings.........am i running off?? maybe i should pursue that
> some other time.
Well,I sure think you did. You ran off, and far too. The then governments
of both Senegal and the Gambia never had any mandate from their respective
peoples to form anything near a Confederation. I suppose any group of
patriotic Gambians, such as PDOIS, ought to have known that that futile
marriage of convenience was simply waiting to be untied as thoroughly as it
was imaginable. PDOIS and other groups of Gambians, BUT ESPECIALLY PDOIS,
did their historic duty by CONSISTENTLY AND SELFLESSLY opposing a
dangerously ordained sort of union. Thanks to them, Gambia is perhaps not
in conflict with northern Senegal at this very moment. [But indeed, not
even the Gambian elite in favour of the Confederation would have
voluntarily gone to the guillotine if they only knew would the
Confederation would do to them. Otherwise, I agree with your views on the
Casamance problem.
Momodou Sidibeh, Kartong/Stockholm.
> ****************************
> yet.
>
> *********************
> Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 15:43:34 +0100 (BST)
From: "B.M.Jones" <B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk>
To: bantaba <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: "Give a Book" Just an Idea
Message-ID: <SIMEON.9710251534.A@p058.gri.hull.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I welcome Ebrima Sall's idea of giving textbooks to the
University of the Gambia and schools. It should not just be
limited to textbooks only, any educational materials is
welcome. I remember after finishing my undergraduate
studies in 1987 and returned home, most of my textbooks and
even my calculator found its way to Gambian students
studying economics in Sierra Leone as they were having
problems getting textbooks and it was expensive.
I was involved in the university extension program in 1996
as a teaching assistant in intro. economics with Dr.. A
Sinclair from Dalhousie university in Canada. Infact the
enthusiasm to gain knowledge demonstrated by the students
was just enormous. The students relied on the prescribed
text which I must say each and everyone of them got a copy.
However, additional textbooks in introductory macro and
micro economics could have helped them to broaden their
scope on the subject. At the end of the semester, the
professor did say that the average grade of the students
was higher than their counterparts in Canada. (What the
youths need is opportunity to excel).
I think we have to approach the issue in a systematic
manner. Let us find out from the coordinator of the
university extension program what is needed. As you know
the university program is concentrating on science,
commerce and arts. It would be futile at this time to send
books on advanced mechanical engineering (not that it might
not be needed in the future).
Of course we have a SOS for education who is dynamic and I
am sure that Mrs. Jow will wholeheartedly welcome the idea
of helping out our schools and the university, GTTI and
MDI.
Of course it would be expensive to send books back home,
anyway I think we might make progress if we can approach
educational trust,development institutions and Rotary
International with the assistance of Rotary club of Gambia
as they are involved in financing education in the Gambia
and have an international network, we might make progress.
Ebrima, your idea makes a lot of sense and I think it
should be pursued further. We will be doing the students a
great favor if this proposal takes off.
Cheers
Basil
----------------------
B.M.Jones
B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 11:25:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: SV: commendations>>>>>>
Message-ID: <971025112422_-626060015@emout05.mail.aol.com>
Momodou Sidibeh,
We have had enough of you Kartongites fluffing your feathers. You guys will
never convince us of your "fish village" being superior etc. etc. Give it up.
Although, l must admit, you have to be better than dusty "Chicago Kunda". At
least you do have beautiful beaches.
Sister Jabou.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 11:41:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: "give a book" just an idea
Message-ID: <971025114129_84143641@mrin40.mail.aol.com>
There have been some very good suggestions on Mr. Sall's idea of donating
books. l agree with Mr. Jones. Satang Jow and her late husband, (my favourite
teacher at GHS) the late Charles Jow, have long been advocates of excellence
in education in the Gambia, and l'm sure she will be an asset in whatever
role she plays in this.
On the issue of the cost of shipping the books etc, these can actually be
sent by sea. l know of a Ghanaian shipping company with offices in Banjul and
Laurel, Maryland, for instance, that will ship items less than container load
for very reasonable prices.l am sure something can be worked out with them,
or with any other shipping agency for that matter. We would just need folks
to coordinate the process. l am still waiting on you guys' feedback on how
best to handle the offer made by Tenn. State.
Jabou.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 19:07:31 +0100
From: Mamadou S Jallow <bala@algonet.se>
To: Gambian List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: New Member!
Message-ID: <34523562.2328@algonet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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***************************************************************************************
* It is a great pleasure for me of seeing, feelng and encountering a
wonderfull forum of * happy and united Gambians on CyberSpace.
*
* My name is Bala Jallow. I am presently working as a computer
coordinator in Stockholm * Sweden. Paralellt to my work i am studying to
become a Systemspecialist on the
* computerside. My dreams are to se our little but wealthy Gambia become
one of the
* universal members of the multiuser democratical platform. I wonders
how long Gamtel is * going to keep us down by their expensive rates
preventing us from this mighty chance. *
* /Bala & Family
***************************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 19:34:40 -0700
From: Abdou Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
To: Gambia-l List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Gambia homepage
Message-ID: <3452AC3E.2EC41BB2@cs.columbia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi folks,
You might be interested in seeing the following homepage about The
Gambia :
http://www.niica.on.ca/gambia/
-Abdou.
------------------------------
End of GAMBIA-L Digest 91
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gambia-l: LOG9710E - Digest 91
