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Watchman
Gambia
174 Posts |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Oct 2010 : 16:41:59
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quote:
No wonder when Yahya Jammeh looks at the disorganized motley crew trying to replace him, he feels confident enough to boast his reign will last for 40 years.
Aha. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Watchman
Gambia
174 Posts |
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toubab1020
12311 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2010 : 17:42:46
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WOW !!!  I will not comment at all but it is avery radical way of looking at things although it does contain very long words 
quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Here we have voice of "ALTERNATIVE PARTY" from Gambia Journal online; GAMBIA: A Poisoned “Nation-State” in Search of an Antidote under http://www.thegambiajournal.com/Regional-News/981.html
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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rassimian
United Kingdom
168 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2010 : 22:37:46
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A very illuminating and thought provoking article with a few contradictions. Talking about 'Revolution' and an 'Alternative Party' (whatever that may mean)don't seem to somehow go together.
As a statement about the state of things in the Gambia I tend to agree but then 'what is the solution' How is this 'Revolution' going to come about ? Any ideas. How about civil war !!!
Jammeh has the weapons but can he be persuaded to go peacefully? Can he be elected out of office? How do you get rid of a Dictator.? Gambians will have to decide what kind of future they want for their country and how they are going to achieve it.
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 00:05:01
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quote:
Originally posted by rassimian
A very illuminating and thought provoking article with a few contradictions. Talking about 'Revolution' and an 'Alternative Party' (whatever that may mean)don't seem to somehow go together.
As a statement about the state of things in the Gambia I tend to agree but then 'what is the solution' How is this 'Revolution' going to come about ? Any ideas. How about civil war !!!Jammeh has the weapons but can he be persuaded to go peacefully? Can he be elected out of office? How do you get rid of a Dictator.? Gambians will have to decide what kind of future they want for their country and how they are going to achieve it.
1. START A NATIONAL ON-LINE CONFERENCE WITH THE PARTICIPATION OF OPPOSITION PARTIES TO DIRECT THEM ON WHAT WE WANT FOR AGENDA 2011; THE NEED TO FORM A UNITED NATIONAL FRONT & HOW THEY CAN REPRESENT US TOWARDS THE COMMON GOOD.
2. CALL ON ALL OPPOSITION PARTIES ON THE NEED TO SACRIFICE PARTY INTERESTS FOR THE BIGGER PICTURE OF SALVAGING THE GAMBIA DEMOCRACY OR POLITICAL SITUATION.
3. ESTABLISH A WELL COORDINATED FORUM OR NETWORKING COMMUNICATION SYSTEM TO LINK ALL STAKEHOLDERS, FRONT-LINE & GRASSROOT; TO FACILITATE MOBILISING THE MASS ON NATIONALISM, PATRIOTISM, RESISTANCE & ANY FORM OF REVOLUTION TO CHANGE THE SYSTEM!
4. FIGHT OUR MAIN OPPONENT(S) THROUGH SOLIDARITY AS A UNITED NATIONAL FRONT. |
Edited by - kobo on 23 Oct 2010 00:07:34 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 00:19:33
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Excuse me but can anyone tell me why there must be a civil war. The situation in Gambia is not bad. And you may not like Jammeh but there is no need for any violent uprising, civil war or any violence. There is no violence. Children are going to school. Government is functioning. The economy is relatively ok. Hospitals are open. Tourists are coming. There are more than 10,000 foreigner living in Gambia. If people don't like the government there is an opportunity to change next year. And most important, you can change Gambian within existing system and situation. There are lots of opportunity to change things in Gambia.
Gambia has problem, not because of Jammeh. It has problems because it is one of the 30 poorest countries in the world. It has no natural resources, it is a small country. Literacy is less than 50 percent.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 23 Oct 2010 00:27:24 |
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Watchman
Gambia
174 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 00:42:15
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Turk, I think rassimian was talking about "civil war " in a tongue in cheek manner. Sometimes folks in this forum tend to take things too literally. By the way, the same things you mentioned about The Gambia can be attributed to Egypt for example. It is not one of the poorest countries in the world and yes, its problems come from the stagnant leadership of Mubarak just like MOST of The Gambia's woes stem from an illiberal democracy.
www.escapefrombanjul.blogspot.com |
For your own good, read:
www.escapefrombanjul.blogspot.com |
Edited by - Watchman on 23 Oct 2010 02:17:00 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 01:00:42
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All my proposals are civil to mobilise the mass for A NATIONAL CAUSE!
POWER TO THE PEOPLE AND JAMMEH/APRC IS GONE! |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 01:11:22
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| you are right about rassimian, but I was more like saying, there is no need to have desperate and extreme measures. Also, I don't think liberal democracy will make significant difference for Gambian in solving problems. I think a model is more like Turkish Model, Malaysia, S.Korea, Singapore, better fit. More focus on economic development, less focus on democratization process. I don't see much value in it. Neither someone else will solve the problems of Gambia overnight unless someone like Ataturk, Gandhi type of leaders come out. But these kinda people come once a century. The situation Gambia in is due to poverty, under development.... |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 01:56:41
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Sorry Turk we are already in dire straits and present generation of elites (across) has all what it takes & wealth of eligible leadership hands to sort out our national political crisis; TO SAVE THE GAMBIA OUR HOMELAND FROM ITS PREDICAMENT!
THE WORST CASE SCENARIO OR WHEN IT REACHES ULTIMATUM LEVEL DON'T RULE OUT CULTURE OF COUP AS "SOLDIER WITH A DIFFERENCE"
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Watchman
Gambia
174 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 02:13:23
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Turk, let's say we take up your proposal and declare that we gotta have the Singapore type of leadership in The Gambia that focuses on development issues as the bane of our besieged country, do you think Professor Jammeh has the intellectual wherewithal and political capital of say a Dr. Mahatir of Malaysia or Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore to install a state that can make do without the little "annoyance" called democracy? These societies have a Confucian underbelly that nurtures a favorable response to learned, benevolent, total authorithy. African political culture and leaders lack some of these traits so I really doubt if some of the political models you propose can be replicated on the continent. Objectively, it wont hurt to try but testing could come at great cost.
www.escapefrombanjul.blogspot.com |
For your own good, read:
www.escapefrombanjul.blogspot.com |
Edited by - Watchman on 23 Oct 2010 02:18:38 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 10:02:22
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Watchman
thanks for your comment. Let me understand your position little better. You are skeptic about the model that worked for countries that are less developed 50 years ago, Turkey, Singapore, Malaysia, S. Korea. All of these countries 50 years ago very poor now they are getting better than former colonial power western countries. In a short span, these countries while lacking liberal democracy, they have progressed a lot focusing on economic development more than political development.
quote:
nurtures a favorable response to learned, benevolent, total authorithy
Why don't you think Gambia would not nurture similar response to total authority. Are you saying Gambians would better fit to 'liberal, relaxed authority. But why? I would understand more liberal, individual, free, educated european, who would live alone in a studio apartment would response better to relaxed authority. But more 'traditional, islamic, tribal society where people live in Compounds with grandmother, grandfahter, uncles, aunts, brothers are better fit to authority.
The proposal of 'liberal democracy' from Europe which took one renaissance 500 hundreds years ago, one industrial revolution 200 years ago, ideological transformation of capitalism/socialism. Plus they had enormous economical input of 'free labour' (slavery) and free land (colonization). Their liberal democracy was established after all this. The miraculousness of liberal democracy itself did not make western world 'wealthy', 'progressed'. Gambia has not experienced non of these. And the lack of confucianism as a reason why my proposal do not work! Well, let me break the news, Gambia is lacking Judeo-Christian tradition too. They are based African-Animism and Islam. I was not sure why you were selective choosing Singapore rather than Turkey and Malaysia that has the common denominator which is Islam.
So my question to you is this. why do you think 'liberal democracy, european model' fits better to Gambia? And give me a few example like Gambia where under developed country that has 'western/liberal democracy' and make progress. And explain why Gambia would fit greek-judeo-christian model better. And don't you think 'liberal democracy requires 'wealth' and 'collectively more educated society' i.e. higher literacy rate for the political participation, one of the 'must have requirement' of liberal democracy.
I have even more doubt that liberal democracy will work and make things better in Gambia that has nooo connection to the countries that has implemented liberal democracies other than being one of their colonies.
Looking forward to hearing your comments.
p.s. I am not against liberal democracy. I am not ideological. I think liberal democracy is good for western world where liberal democracy was born, nurtured, developed and fed by enlightenment, secularism, industrial revolution and capitalism. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 23 Oct 2010 11:17:49 |
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rassimian
United Kingdom
168 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 13:23:55
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Yes, my use of words 'civil war' was in some way designed to open up the debate but,
Kobo, " to facilitate mobilising the mass on nationalism,patriotism,resistance and any form of revolution to change the system" (your words) What does this mean in reality for the Gambian people. You have not answered the question as to 'what means to what ends'-the great question for all so called proponents of revolution.
Turk you are wrong. There is violence in the Gambia on a daily basis.I witnessed it myself in March of this year. Armed soldiers on the streets even in tourist Kololi. Workers harassed ,intimidated, not allowed to go to work. Everyday youth are picked up by Police,Army for no good reason.Some are beaten up. What about the 'Witch hunts' Was this not systematic violence against ordinary Gambians.
No one wants a 'civil war' But can so called 'democratic means' that is, the voting system work to free Gambians from tyranny. This equally applies to western 'politriks' such as here in the UK.
For myself I think the most likely scenario for the Gambia will be another military coup. Historically this often seems to happen throughout world history and particularly in Africa.
Opposition parties in the Gambia seem to be fragmented and weak. However I am not advocating violence as a means of change. But my central question remains unanswered. How is positive change going to come about - through the ballot box or through revolt of the people,which I would understand as the people resisting an oppressive government by any means at their disposal.
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toubab1020
12311 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 14:21:33
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| "Turk you are wrong." that comment will bring on a spate of long and complicated questions, Why ? What? who? Where? can you please explain what you mean ? I do not understand etc. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 23 Oct 2010 14:23:46 |
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