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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jun 2010 : 01:29:19
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Once again the Police appear to have been very heavy handed in bring these people to court,but the Magistrate had a great deal of common sense and cautioned them all,a caution is still a stain on their names,I am certain that ALL posters on Bantaba know that there are people who are forced to beg just for survival in The Gambia,many of these people are elderly,and most probably without family to help them,the average Gambian is also having a hard time getting his/her survilal.One thing that hasnt happened on this occasion disabled beggars appear not to have been scooped up in this recent excercise.
This From FOROYAA online newspaper:
http://www.foroyaa.gm/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4977
By Mamadou Dem on 23-06-10 (162 reads) News by the same author
Seven female and two male beggars were on Monday cautioned and discharged by Hillary Abeke of the Banjul Magistrate’s Court.
The statement of offence stated that the accused persons committed common nuisance contrary to section 160 of the Criminal Code Cap 10 Volume III Laws of The Gambia 1990.
The particulars of offence states that Buba Amadou Sillah, Edrisa Jallow, Mariama Bah, Awa Joof, Jainaba Giggo, Mariama Sowe, Fatou Sonko and Kaddyjatou Jallow on or about the 18th day of June 2010 at Banjul and diverse places of the Republic of The Gambia, you obstructed the public highway causing nuisance to the General Public, thereby committed an offence.
When the charge sheet was read to the accused persons, they all pleaded guilty but urged the court to have mercy on them hence they don’t have anything and also have never known that begging is prohibited in The Gambia.
Magistrate Abeke said the accused persons are guilty and the offence charged imposes a year imprisonment without a fine on defaulters but the court under the circumstances considered the age of all the accused persons whom he said are all not less than seventy and that majority of them are not well and have been under police custody since Friday. He added that no one knows whether they have eaten.
He therefore warned and discharged them and finally ordered them to return to their homes.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Momodou
Denmark
11634 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2010 : 09:59:00
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The Editorial below is a related topic.
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Foroyaa Editorial : SHOULD MEDIA PERSONNEL BE REDUCED TO BEGGARS? BEGGARS ARE EVEN BEING TAKEN TO COURT
By Publisher on 23-06-10
Foroyaa came into contact with a technician who has worked for the electronic media for over 30 years. He had an accident which led to his disability. Consequently he is no longer working. There are a number of Media practitioners and technicians who are living with disability and have been pushed out of the system without any effort to rehabilitate them to make them live productive lives or assist them to have the capital to start a small enterprise to ensure their survival in dignity.
Foroyaa would like to call on the Director General of the GRTS and the President of the Gambia Press Union to do a survey on the number of practitioners and technicians who have been associated with the public and private media, both Press and Electronic who are currently living with a type of disability that has incapacitated them. There should then be cooperation to find out how they could be assisted either by way of rehabilitation to carry on their profession or financial assistance to run small scale enterprises. The other option is to ignore members of the media fraternity at their time of greatest need and drive them to become beggars.
Unfortunately, this is also not an option because beggars are being rounded up by the security forces and taken to court for allegedly causing public nuisance. A Magistrate had to caution and discharge some old men and women whose only crime was to become beggars in the street. They could have served one year imprisonment if they confronted a heartless magistrate. In their plea of mitigation the elderly beggars said that they did not know that begging in the street was considered as loitering and a crime in the Gambia.
In our view, where there is no state social security system to provide assistance to the poor there is no moral authority to criminalize begging in the street. Such acts should be decriminalized and the Department of Social Welfare should be equipped to provide counseling and assistance to those whose extended families could no longer provide the support they need.
As for those associated with the media we call on the Gambia Press Union to take the initiative to establish days to remember the founders of media houses who are no longer alive and whose operations have had decisive impact on the people and state. They should utilise such remembrance days to raise funds for members of the fraternity who need solidarity.
Source: Foroyaa |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2010 : 12:59:12
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here is my question, i have travelled many places and seen beggers, but when you get them in large numbers they would be arrested. while they should not go to prison, who is to say they are poor and not just working a scam.
he was right to name and caution them. |
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Momodou
Denmark
11634 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2010 : 13:19:28
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Jambo, even Denmark with its well established free social services have street beggars because some people cannot make ends meet. Street begging is not a dignified trade and I am sure no one would do it if they had other means of survival. Yes, it can be a nuisance to have people beg you whenever you come out of the supermarket or a bank are Wesfield junction but you will never be forced to give them. I agree with the conclusion of the editorial above that “where there is no state social security system to provide assistance to the poor there is no moral authority to criminalize begging in the street”.
At least the street beggars do it openly but you have officials delaying normal transactions to get bribes otherwise they just waste your time. Who do you prefer among this two? |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2010 : 22:17:39
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I prefer beggars!
In Uk outside my business there was a regular organised scam of tourists by begging. I REALLY objected to that because in the UK we have a good social security system and people really shouldnt need to beg. Most beggars were alcoholics or drug addicts. I have alot of sympathy for them. But putting cash in their pocket is not the way to help them.
In Gambia, beggars seemed genuine. Many were disabled. I was never hassled to give... But I do give a very little to them which is very happily received. The difficulty for tourists is deciding who to give to and how much. The giving could be never ending!!!!!
I decide an amount before I come to Gambia, sort of extra spending money, and I give it away till its gone.
None of us have never ending money!!!
My advice would be to have a budget (similar to tipping in other countries) and stick to it. Say..10%? So if you have £400 spending money, give away £40...either to one person you really trust or in little bits to lots of people.
Imagine if every tourist did this. The difference it could make. |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2010 : 00:38:45
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JAMBO.Yes he was right,and you are also correct that some beggars do make scams,there are countries in this world where disabled people are maimed by their parents or others in order to gain sympathy to collect money by begging,my question to you is if you were one of these unfortunates you would have been "educated" in the profession of begging as a "career",is that your fault ?
quote:
Originally posted by jambo
here is my question, i have travelled many places and seen beggers, but when you get them in large numbers they would be arrested. while they should not go to prison, who is to say they are poor and not just working a scam.
he was right to name and caution them.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2010 : 10:18:21
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The diliberate maiming of children is very shocking. In the film slum dog millionaire this is what I found most shocking.
Does this happen in Gambia? I am not aware of it. |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 11:15:40
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my question is this, when is begging not a scam, how do you tell, if i am in gambia how can i tell.
you go to paris and see a group of people begging, do you give or not,
when you go to brigton, do you give or not
in london, in central area like a train station, do you give or not.
Bev you suggest i keep 10% of my spending money for such incidents, no thank you, my 10% will go on people who are in need and are known to me.
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 13:12:14
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Jambo,I think that you are not comparing like for like here,you mention places and countries that are not 3rd world countries,I know that in UK,there are beggars who although perhaps not working a scam are more than happy to take money given to them by passers by as they stay in a public place,MOST of these people have limited intelligence and turn down offers of help by social services because they are getting money for nothing to feed a drug or drink habit.Be in no doubt that help is offered,Be in no doubt that jobs are available IF THE BEGGAR WANTS TO WORK,in other developed countries I cannot tell if its the same but I suspect so.In The Gambia and other third world countries,JOBS don't exist for the majority of the population,so if you are disabled,would you get a job NO,if you are healthy and want to work would you get a job unlikly.The extended family unit has a big roll to play ,if you have no family, problem,survival for MOST Gambians is a big problem there are just not the resources to maintain someone without a family.
If you are a female you have other alternatives apart from begging UNLESS you are OLD or DISABLED !
The Muslim faith is very strong in The Gambia and I believe that it is a Muslims duty to give money to the poor,this included beggars I should imagine,it would be a good chance for one of the many Muslim scholars on bantaba to join in and give the directions of their faith on this subject.
quote:
Originally posted by jambo
my question is this, when is begging not a scam, how do you tell, if i am in gambia how can i tell.
you go to paris and see a group of people begging, do you give or not,
when you go to brigton, do you give or not
in london, in central area like a train station, do you give or not.
Bev you suggest i keep 10% of my spending money for such incidents, no thank you, my 10% will go on people who are in need and are known to me.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 18:56:59
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toubab1020,
here is my questions, how many do you give to.
if i am in gambia and go to Banjul and see the beggers, how many do you give to.
if the numbers are growing the issue has to be addressed, and it was by the police.
One person begging yes okay, but 7 all in place seems over whelming. |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 19:14:31
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Jambo,This is very difficult to answer,I understand I think what your question means,Yes I give to BEGGARS I give to those who I consider to be having a VERY hard time,I will give to women who have perhaps 2 young babies with them,although they could have borrowed them from the mother,to give her a break and also to make money in her chosen "profession" I do not know,the Beggar may be making a scam.I give to the disabled,I give to those who have suffered from leprosy,if a man comes up and asks me for money for food,I will then go with him to a shop and buy him food,although true to say that he will often be lost when we arrive at the shop,an obvious scam,i.e.he was not hungry but trying his luck to get money,if he had told me the REAL reason why he wanted money I would have considered that.I have been approached with different scams,i.e. I have to get this prescription filled for my child who is ill,again,on the way to the pharmacy,the man thinks of an excuse and never gets his prescription filled and leaves me.
I notice that the MUSLIM scolars who I invited to give Muslim guidence have yet to reply,topics have reverted to Politics again.
ALL Gambians have to face the reallities of The Gambia and not bury their heads in the sand hoping that everything will be alright and go away.IT WONT.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Momodou
Denmark
11634 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 19:39:06
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
..I notice that the MUSLIM scolars who I invited to give Muslim guidence have yet to reply,topics have reverted to Politics again.
...
Disclaimer: I am not an Islamic scholar and this topic has nothing to do with Islam.
Toubab, you can take the horse to the river but cant force it to drink. Jambo has no compassion for the beggars and you can't make her change that opinion. Anyway, I am sure no beggar can force her/him to give them money. Giving to poor beggars is a good deed but not an obligation.
The articles above are very clear about the social reality of these people.
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A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 20:41:53
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quote:
ALL Gambians have to face the reallities of The Gambia and not bury their heads in the sand hoping that everything will be alright and go away.IT WONT.
Toubab, this sentence is loaded with superficial words, which makes it hard to understand. What realities are you talking about? And, in which sand are "ALL" gambian heads buried? |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 21:07:10
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Prince,I am ashtonished and somewhat shocked that YOU should ask me about "realities"(OK spelling mistakes corrected ,thanks,one finger expert me ) of The Gambia,being a Gambian yourself (I presume).
I can write from two viewpoints here,firstly as a foreigner who has visited The Gambia over a period of years,and secondly as a person who has stayed with and has knowledge of the facts of living in The Gambia at an everyday level with the "average Gambian".I do not wish at all to critise a country and people that I hold very dear and understand to a small extent the way they think.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 21:15:11
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Thanks for that Momodou (and your disclaimer as well
I understood,from what you write that it is not a Muslims duty to give "alms to the poor", am I in error there ? beggars are ,probably poor people,to choose such a way of life seems a little strange,you are a Muslim although not a scholar so my understanding is wrong ?
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Momodou
Denmark
11634 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 21:30:28
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| Alms and charity I believe are two different things in Islam. Every year 2.5% of one's wealth should be given as Zakhat (Alms) to the needy who are not necessarily beggars. They can be you neighbours or your own extended family. Zakhat is an obligation and is one of the pillars. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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