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tamsier
United Kingdom
556 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jun 2010 : 16:38:02
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Having come from the Xoy Festival of Fatick - which is an ancient Festival in Serere Animist cosmology, I was left appalled and disgusted by the behaviour of the Muslim masses. First of all, very few of the media covered the event - which would not have happened had it been a Muslim or Christian event. Secondly, the language and insults coming from the Muslims and more so directed towards our High Priests, I find total disgusting. Serere Animists would never go around insulting Muslims on their holy days so who the hell does these people think they are to insult our religion and our High Priests? Just because we don't want to succumb to Islam does not give them the right to insult our religion. Are these the kind of peasants Islam breeds? Further, these barbarians hijacked the Seneweb forum and used it as their campaign of hate. Not a single insulting and vulgar post was deleted from that forum by the moderators. I am not surprised by the reaction of Seneweb. Their coverage of the even [by a Muslim] was so negative and nasty I was not surprised by the reactions of these Muslim cowards who spitted out their hate. With all the resources Seneweb has, are they trying to tell me they couldn't find an Animist Serere journalist to cover the event? At least the Animist Serere would have known the significance of the religious event as well as the rituals and can give a more balanced coverage. Instead, whom did they send in to cover the event? A biased and indoctrinated Muslim. Disgusting! Absolutely disgusting!
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Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
Edited by - tamsier on 13 Jun 2010 16:41:00 |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2010 : 16:57:09
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| Out of curiousity,I should like to have more information on this Religion,I do not want to indulge in the rights or wrongs of any belief,but I kike information about subjects that I have no knowledge about.Can you give some brief history of the beliefs please? |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 13 Jun 2010 16:57:57 |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
556 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2010 : 18:32:43
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
Out of curiousity,I should like to have more information on this Religion,I do not want to indulge in the rights or wrongs of any belief,but I kike information about subjects that I have no knowledge about.Can you give some brief history of the beliefs please?
Hi Toubab,
Our religion is not only a mere religion but a way of life - governed by ancient customs and traditions. We share virtually many aspects with all African Animism. Our religion predates both Christianity and Islam even Judaism itself. Roog is our supreme deity but we also have other lesser Gods – Thiorak, Takar, Mindisse [a Goddess] etc. We pay tribute to the ancient Pangool [spirits who have long departed the physical world]. They are the interceders. The High Priests who are initiated and well learned possess the powers to do this. We also have a long history of herbalism – using herbs and the knowledge passed down from generations beyond memory to cure certain ailments even the Senegalese government recognises this and set up an Herbalist School in order to encourage, preserve, learn and teach this ancient knowledge to the next generation. We used the movements of the sun and the moon to determine the date of our numerous Holy Festivals. Of course we didn’t have a Calender like the Gregorian Calender in ancient times but what we did have was a holy stick with markers to date how many winter months have passed. That was for the safe keeping of the highest of the Priestlihood. This was how our forefathers dated events etc. Our religious festivals are more numerous than the religious events of all the Abrahamic religions put together. Some of which are:
Xoy
Jobai
Randou Rande
Mindisse
Mbosseh
Mboudaye
Tourou Peithie etc.
We also honour the Royal Struggle and the Massacre of Cadde just to name a few. Even the Senegambian words ‘Gamo’ and ‘Tobaski’ you normally hear used by the Senegambian Muslim actually trace their roots in Serere Animist. These two were ancient Serere Animist Festivals. Gamo comes from the old Serere word Gamohou. It was a divination festival and Tobaski a hunting festival. These two words are not Arabic. 'Eid al kabir/eidul adha' [which is Arabic] is totally different from Tobaski, but the Senegambian Muslims borrowed the word Tobaski from Serere Animism to describe Eid al Kabir. In similarity, they also borrowed the word Gamo from Serere Animism. The Arabic word for it is Mawlid/Mawlid an Naabiyy. It has nothing to do with Islam either. The Gamo was an ancient divination festival where our High Priests and Priestess predict the course of the winter months. The Senegambian Muslims borrowed these words to describe Islamic Festivals. Just like in the Western world, the rituals/customs to celebrate Christmas are pagan in origin, Muslims borrowed these Serere Animist festivals to describe their Islamic religious festivals/ events. Whilst Christians use the cross to wear on their necks, we use part of our ancestors e.g. hair or our ancestors belonging which we turn into a juju and wear on or necks. I personally don’t have a problem with Senegambian muslims borrowing the names of Serere Animist Festivals. At the end of the day, their ancient ancestors were also Animists so it makes total sense to borrow from Serere Animism one of few Animists religions that survived in Senegambia. What I would not tolerate is those Muslim serfs insulting my religion or my High Priests.
I hope I have answered your question.
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Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
Edited by - tamsier on 13 Jun 2010 18:37:32 |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2010 : 19:46:40
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Yes indeed, I found that very interesting,I am not a scholar and cannot discuss deep things,but what strikes me in all religions (that I know of )there is always a supreme being ,if that is so I am positive that Diety is not in favour of any intolerence towards any religion.Those who practice such intolerence will find ,I am sure ,find teachings which say that is wrong.
I am open to correction on this ,as I said I am no Scholar. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 13 Jun 2010 19:48:40 |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2010 : 20:35:30
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Tamsier,
I am sorry to hear of your encounter as you narrated. It must have been a tough encounter that you folks had, which I must tell you is really uncalled for. This adds to your perceived and made-up notions and misconceptions about Muslims and Islam which you take hobby in this forum. While I do not support any of those folks provoking your religion, I do not support of you provoking others' religion. I think that the boundary mark is very clear, i.e. Suratul Kafiruun, "To you be your religion; and me, mine."
What I suggest you do, propagate your religion in a manner that suits you best, and for goodness sake, stop your self-perceived anti-islam rhetorics at once. It is said as a traditional proverb, "Whatever you are looking for, that's what you get." You Tamsier, of all, were very well looking for such an encounter so you can come task forward your mission in this forum again.
Please spare us from your intolerance! At any time, someone responds to these Islamic topics, your are forced to use all your aggressive and arrogant nature on him. Pew! In the end, I condemn their acts (while your narration is true) and I condemn your own habitual assault on Muslims.
Take care,
yj |
"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2010 : 20:36:02
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Tamsier,
You have always earned my respect and this time more respect to you for standing your grounds. From what I can pick, there appears some amount of bigotry in the way the whole episode unfolded. Due to lack of openness in some people, they have no fibre to hold the take of others.
Having lived with and shared some very cordial ties with Serere people, I have always held that there is a life beyond what anyone outside the ring could easily identify with.
The name Mbosseh I have known as both male and female. What I did not know is that it is just not just another personal name.
If there is literature on this subject, will you please how is it accessible?
On the whole, your explanation is quite informative. |
Karamba |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
556 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2010 : 21:52:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalton1
Tamsier,
I am sorry to hear of your encounter as you narrated. It must have been a tough encounter that you folks had, which I must tell you is really uncalled for. This adds to your perceived and made-up notions and misconceptions about Muslims and Islam which you take hobby in this forum. While I do not support any of those folks provoking your religion, I do not support of you provoking others' religion. I think that the boundary mark is very clear, i.e. Suratul Kafiruun, "To you be your religion; and me, mine."
What I suggest you do, propagate your religion in a manner that suits you best, and for goodness sake, stop your self-perceived anti-islam rhetorics at once. It is said as a traditional proverb, "Whatever you are looking for, that's what you get." You Tamsier, of all, were very well looking for such an encounter so you can come task forward your mission in this forum again.
Please spare us from your intolerance! At any time, someone responds to these Islamic topics, your are forced to use all your aggressive and arrogant nature on him. Pew! In the end, I condemn their acts (while your narration is true) and I condemn your own habitual assault on Muslims.
Take care,
yj
Dalton! Please do tell me what do my views about Islam have to do with these low life Muslims insulting our religion and our High Priest who would not even utter a bad never mind insulting others? Please do tell! Further you seem to think I went to Fatick looking for problems with Senegalese Muslims. I mean how crazy is that? These people were directing their hatred to all Animist Sereres not specifically to me. And yes other Animist Sereres and I gave them their just dessert. I cannot even believe you can come up with such comments. It is like telling a rape victim she is to blame for being rape. How sick is that? Are you telling us we are to blame for being insulted because we are Animists? Do tell! |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
556 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2010 : 22:11:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Karamba
Tamsier,
You have always earned my respect and this time more respect to you for standing your grounds. From what I can pick, there appears some amount of bigotry in the way the whole episode unfolded. Due to lack of openness in some people, they have no fibre to hold the take of others.
Having lived with and shared some very cordial ties with Serere people, I have always held that there is a life beyond what anyone outside the ring could easily identify with.
The name Mbosseh I have known as both male and female. What I did not know is that it is just not just another personal name.
If there is literature on this subject, will you please how is it accessible?
On the whole, your explanation is quite informative.
Thanks Karamba. I don't personally mind being insulted but no one is going to insult my religion without justification and certainly not my High Priests. Serere names have meanings. Some are spritual in nature, others are to do with morality, dignity, pride etc.
Here are some sources for you. They are all written in French because the Sereres are more numerous in Senegal than in Gambia. I have others and will try to find them time permitting if you are still interested:
Medecine traditionnelle, religion et divination chez les Seereer Siin du Sénégal, by Kallis Simone
Theme de la mort dans la litterature seereer : essay by A. Faye
La civilisation Seereer, Pangool by Henri Gravrand
I would also recommend Issa Laye Thiaw’s book – Femme Seereer
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Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2010 : 22:15:12
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Tamsier,
I do not doubt of your cultutal (historical) awareness, especially with the words above you traced, but in all frankness, I question your fair treatment of Muslims and Islam, especially the way you laid matters in this forum for the longest. Perhaps, I needed to just sympathize with your unfortunate situation and stop there for now. I would have done just that had you just explained your story without your usual anti-islam rhetorics. i couldn't help but just tell you in plain. To me, it looks like you were longing for such an encounter so you can come back to the forum and make your usual provoking headlines.
In any way, just so you know, I unconditionally condemn those that stoop so low to assault you and your religion mates. i hope that the fruits of tolerance, diversity and acceptance penetrate human hearts -so each can follow their way, comfortably, without having an assault from others. This is the type explained in the forwarded verse.
Take it easy, and i hope your heart's wounds heal soon. If yours is so good bro, stick to it, and it is my wish you convert soon...and your name is Jaafar! May be some other day........
thanks,
yj |
"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 09:21:32
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| Tamsier all you have to say is FODAY KAABA, they will all scatter and run. It was indeed the weak that converted and mainly scared for their properties and way of life. Foday Kabba was beheading Dalton and his cousins like cows at a slaughter house. I think they even have a song for him and he is revered for his beheading skills and his two edged sword. These are the people who understood how to indoctrinate a race or nation. They should all be animist and tree worshippers Dalton included. Ask him what his great grand father worshipped 200 years ago and does he believe that his grand father a NON disbeliever and Pagan/Animist which ever floats your boat is going to hell?. These people are so scared of punishment of going to hell especially when it comes to God and their indoctrinated religion ISLAM. Forget about being scared of God and focus on the teachings of Islam. Every Gambian should either be handicapped or only one hand . They all practice religion the way they think is acceptable behind closed doors. Dalton better not even think about claiming to be a pious individual cos I will remind him of his womanizing tendencies ,he knows what am talking about....................................................................Peace |
I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
556 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 22:10:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalton1
Tamsier,
I do not doubt of your cultutal (historical) awareness, especially with the words above you traced, but in all frankness, I question your fair treatment of Muslims and Islam, especially the way you laid matters in this forum for the longest. Perhaps, I needed to just sympathize with your unfortunate situation and stop there for now. I would have done just that had you just explained your story without your usual anti-islam rhetorics. i couldn't help but just tell you in plain. To me, it looks like you were longing for such an encounter so you can come back to the forum and make your usual provoking headlines.
In any way, just so you know, I unconditionally condemn those that stoop so low to assault you and your religion mates. i hope that the fruits of tolerance, diversity and acceptance penetrate human hearts -so each can follow their way, comfortably, without having an assault from others. This is the type explained in the forwarded verse.
Take it easy, and i hope your heart's wounds heal soon. If yours is so good bro, stick to it, and it is my wish you convert soon...and your name is Jaafar! May be some other day........
thanks,
yj
First of all, Animist Sereres do not need pity. We have defended our ancient religion and way of life for nearly a thousand years. Pity we certainly don't need. We need justice and recognition from the muslim masses of Senegambia and equal coverage of our religious ceremonies in the media. We also do not need cowards insulting our religion and High Priests and Priestess. Even in the Religious curriculum of Senegambia, it is merely Islam and Christianity which are taught. Animist pupils are forced to islamic or Christianity lessons. They can only learn about their religion and culture at home. If schools and governments cannot cater for these children, they should ban all religious studies period rather than trying to convert children and indoctrinating them. Second, the High Priests are not my mates; they are my spiritual elders just like your local imam is not your mate. It seems that you haven't read my thread properly before writing your rhetoric. If you want to attack me, attack me but what does that have to do with my High Priests who would not utter a bad word to others? Further, I did not go to Senegal looking for trouble which you seem to think. My heart is not wounded so there is nothing to heal.
Isn't it surprising that not a single member of the Muslim elders of Senegal spoke out against the behaviour of these muslim criminals. Then again I am not surprised by these Brotherhoods, we all know what they are. Last but not least, I am very happy with my religion and way of life and find no need to convert to any other religion thank you very much. I cannot even believe you are asking me to convert as if there is something wrong with my religion. This is exactly what these muslim criminals were saying [telling Sereres to convert to Islam]. Pathetic!
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Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 22:31:52
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Tamsier,I am positive that you would have checked if the following statement is accurate:
"Animist pupils are forced to islamic or Christianity lessons." If so,such pipils in my opinion should be excused religious study lessons and be given alternative supervised lessons which are not religious in nature.I would say that your postings in relation to other religions appears to be somewhat intolerant.Any religious faith is personal and as such a matter of personal choice. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 23:52:29
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This bigot insults Muslims and Islam then he expects respect from others. What is happening that this bigot deserves the treatment because he even treats others worse. What goes around and comes around. I condemn the author who initiates the topic, and the Muslims who insults animists as well.
However, I agree with the point of religious education. Religious education must be elective. State has no business in religious education. If a parent of Muslim or Christian or animist wishes, the pupil would take religious education from a charity base organization, family or local religious community i.e. church, mosque etc... Or state should have legislation for masses open religious schools in addition to public schools which should be religion free. If parent choose, they can have 24/7 religious education for their pupils. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
556 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 00:21:42
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
Tamsier,I am positive that you would have checked if the following statement is accurate:
"Animist pupils are forced to islamic or Christianity lessons." If so,such pipils in my opinion should be excused religious study lessons and be given alternative supervised lessons which are not religious in nature.I would say that your postings in relation to other religions appears to be somewhat intolerant.Any religious faith is personal and as such a matter of personal choice.
Yes! It is indeed accurate. There are only two choices: Christianity and Islamic studies. If you don't believe in neither you are forced into one. It happened to me at primary school along with others I know to of to be Animist. I was shoved into the islamic class for a day until I went home and told my father. After that, I was only excused to go to my father's office then in Banjul, simply because of my father's connection to the school. Other's didn't have that option which is grossly unfair. They were simply shoved into Islamic lesson. Even at High School form one, they tried to shove me into the islamic class and force me to buy a Quranic book which was the syllabus. I can't remember the name of the book, I blocked it out of my memory. At that time I was much older and refused to attend that class or buy that book. In school, people expect you to be either muslim or christian and are asked to attend the the relevant class. There are no other alternatives and others were simply shoved into islam or christianity lessons - mostly islamic lessons. I challenge anyone here to come and say I haven't spoke the truth. If they are really honest with themselves, they would know it's the truth.
One last thing. What do you mean by this statement and what relevance does it have to this thread?
'I would say that your postings in relation to other religions appears to be somewhat intolerant.'
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Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 01:22:09
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Tamsier,
there will always be protests from one group or another, which can take different forms.. the neo-conservatives, belonging to one islamic sect or another in Senegal were just having a field day at Seneweb, this time they got away with it, they will be bolder and someday it will get out of hand.
so many including myself have learnt so much about serer culture from you on the bantaba.
can you share your experiences (positive) from the festival, e.g. how many people attended, is the festival growing from last year, what format does it take... any pictures.
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 11:35:26
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Tamsier, I nealy missed you question it was only when I read those words I remembered that I had written them,sorry for the delay,you are justifiably angry at the experience that you have had,and responded with words in your postings that I think you could have chosen better, religion is a matter of personal choice and should be respected on that basis ,however it is a fact that to a great extent religion is continued by children who have been brought up by their parents in their parents faith.
quote:
Originally posted by tamsier
quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
Tamsier,I am positive that you would have checked if the following statement is accurate:
"Animist pupils are forced to islamic or Christianity lessons." If so,such pipils in my opinion should be excused religious study lessons and be given alternative supervised lessons which are not religious in nature.I would say that your postings in relation to other religions appears to be somewhat intolerant.Any religious faith is personal and as such a matter of personal choice.
Yes! It is indeed accurate. There are only two choices: Christianity and Islamic studies. If you don't believe in neither you are forced into one. It happened to me at primary school along with others I know to of to be Animist. I was shoved into the islamic class for a day until I went home and told my father. After that, I was only excused to go to my father's office then in Banjul, simply because of my father's connection to the school. Other's didn't have that option which is grossly unfair. They were simply shoved into Islamic lesson. Even at High School form one, they tried to shove me into the islamic class and force me to buy a Quranic book which was the syllabus. I can't remember the name of the book, I blocked it out of my memory. At that time I was much older and refused to attend that class or buy that book. In school, people expect you to be either muslim or christian and are asked to attend the the relevant class. There are no other alternatives and others were simply shoved into islam or christianity lessons - mostly islamic lessons. I challenge anyone here to come and say I haven't spoke the truth. If they are really honest with themselves, they would know it's the truth.
One last thing. What do you mean by this statement and what relevance does it have to this thread?
'I would say that your postings in relation to other religions appears to be somewhat intolerant.'
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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