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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 12:02:50
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Turk, I am a little lost here,China,I know is a big player in Africa,I think that you may be referring to my comment about the TAIWAN News,OK , here is why I was somewhat surprised, The Gambia's best friend is TAIWAN the moment ,not Red China, who seem to have faded away annoyed.The Article was all about Guinea , I didn't know that TAIWAN was assisting Guinea to the same extent as it is helping The Gambia,have you any information on that?
quote:
Originally posted by turk
Toubab
Western, now China, involvement in African domestic affairs is well documented in the history of Africa. Even, big corporations having interests in particularly natural resources use their influence, in some cases, they take side in conflicts. So why is it big surprise when mansa refers that?
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 12:30:55
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Toubab
Western, now China, involvement in African domestic affairs is well documented in the history of Africa. Even, big corporations having interests in particularly natural resources use their influence, in some cases, they take side in conflicts. So why is it big surprise when mansa refers that?
Turk, Mansa's reference to "White mercenaries" is insensitive, off-collar, potentially divisive and politically incorrect. It does not matter whether he quoted a newspaper or not. One person's (newspaper's) wrong does not justify another's (Mansa's) wrong.
In today's diverse world (and this Bantaba forum)language is used cautiously to respect the feelings of others. There are a whole host of words in language in reference to race, gender, and physical condition, that are potentially insensitive and divisive if used wrecklessly like Mansasulu just did.
Mansa argued that he expected Toubab to be knowledgeable about the subject matter to the extent of knowing the original newspaper source of his statement. What mansa, however failed to understand also is that the paper he quoted was not the only newspaper report about mercenaries in Guinea. There are other reports about South African and other mercenaries that may not be "White", but mansa ignored those reports and focused on the "White" mercenaries (in Africa). You see the mental state that sometimes guide (misguide) us to pick and choose what information we access and use.
I didn't want to get involved in this debate, but I think Toubab should stand his ground and demand from Mansasulu an apology for using a divisive, politically incorrect racial reference ... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 14 Dec 2009 13:36:19 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 14:47:01
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Wooooooooooooooooo ............... hold on there Kay...............,please don't let this topic get very intensive, not necessary as far as I am concerned,I would not dream of asking for an apology nor expect one.
It is true that I was annoyed at Mansasulu's posting only from the standpoint of blaming the white man for all of Africas troubles,It is of course true that the white man has done bad things to Africans and the wealth of Africa in the past,no excuse shouldnt have happened,but it did,however Africans themselves are doing bad things to Africans NOW in the 21st century a time when EVERYONE should know better.To blame the white man for Africa's ills now is not correct.
Thank you for your concern Kay and understanding of my point of view.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 14:47:54
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I care less about what is politically correct and whats not. I know only one way to shoot, and that is straight. The mercenaries are WHITE and I am calling it how I see it. Now, I didn't say they are from the West or what not. For all we know, they could be from Southern Africa but thats irrelevant here. Frankly I don't care where they come from. I am merely portraying the obvious.
The point is Toubab jumped on me for having no evidence and when I provided one, he couldn't bring himself to admit his mistake. I do not need an apology from him. All I am asking him to do is think first before accusing people for no reason. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 17:20:35
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My error ?
"The point is Toubab jumped on me for having no evidence and when I provided one,"
"The man who is denied the opportunity of taking decisions of importance begins to regard as important the decisions he is allowed to take." (C Northcote Parkinson, 1909-1993, from Parkinson's Law - The Pursuit of Progress, 1957.)
quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
I care less about what is politically correct and whats not. I know only one way to shoot, and that is straight. The mercenaries are WHITE and I am calling it how I see it. Now, I didn't say they are from the West or what not. For all we know, they could be from Southern Africa but thats irrelevant here. Frankly I don't care where they come from. I am merely portraying the obvious.
The point is Toubab jumped on me for having no evidence and when I provided one, he couldn't bring himself to admit his mistake. I do not need an apology from him. All I am asking him to do is think first before accusing people for no reason.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 17:24:27
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Foroya online newspaper editorial The Lessons of Guinea Conakry and Kenya under http://www.foroyaa.gm/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4106
Kobo, Thanks for posting this, I think it sums up ALL the problems of Africa in one article, a real shame that no one will take note of the Author's words. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 21:22:10
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quote:
To blame the white man for Africa's ills now is not correct.
I disagree/agree Toubab. There are several reasons for African's ills. That is true that African's themselves should take the blame. But I still think the 500 years of colonization, as a single reason of many, have the GREATEST impact on what is happening in Africa now. The impact is so deep, besides, it looks like foreign agents still are very much active to destroy Africa, even now.
Kay
I am not sure if Mansa has any motivation, based on race. He even confessed once that he would rescue a 'white' man over a 'black' man if he was able to assist only one in a sinking ship. 
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 14 Dec 2009 21:57:02 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2009 : 06:45:55
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
quote:
Kay
I am not sure if Mansa has any motivation, based on race. He even confessed once that he would rescue a 'white' man over a 'black' man if he was able to assist only one in a sinking ship.
provided that the Whiteman is a Muslim and the Blackman is a non-Muslim. I thought that is what he said  |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2009 : 07:03:25
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Considering Mansa, how he is sincere and devoted Muslim. He should never be motived by racism. It is against his ideology. Don't you have some ideas about the personalities here, Kayjatta?
:-)
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 15 Dec 2009 07:04:02 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2009 : 07:41:21
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Considering Mansa, how he is sincere and devoted Muslim. He should never be motived by racism. It is against his ideology. Don't you have some ideas about the personalities here, Kayjatta?
:-)
I did not say that he is racist, even though many racists find justification of racism in religion.
What I have actually said is that Mansa used a language and a point of view that is insensitive, inappropriate, and un-neighborly considering the whole mercenary story in Guinea. It could have been motivated by deep-seated racists views, a minor personal experience, or just a simple gaffe; I don't know for sure.
I simply demand that he be humble enough to apologize |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2009 : 09:21:13
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kayjatta
You said once:
quote:
Calm down, Turk. It is not all Black and White as you would like to think. Don't you think if you were in crowded bus in the Gambia and your baby was crying like that someone might not refer to him as a "white kid" (or some reference to his skin color). We must not be over-sensitive to any reference to our color, it is only descriptive a lot of times, but of course you know better than I do ...
Sometimes i really confused what your perspective on issues. Anyway. Personally, I never like to give reference 'black' and 'white'. I would rather use the terms , European, Western, Afro-American etc. The 'white' Mansa refered was used in the newspaper. Toubab, may have been offended by it. I am not sure if he is 'black' or 'while' or 'Gambian'. That is another story. But Mansa provide the link, and 'white' is a reference used in the news by AP. Then, there should not be further escalation about Mansa's being stereotyped.
I think you should apologize for fliping-floping whether using 'white/black' is ok or not ok. lol.
P.S. I will rescue Mansa from the sinking boat. If you became 'liberal secular' and little pro third-world, i might as well do you a favor, rescue you and ignore that you are 'white'. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 15 Dec 2009 09:23:48 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2009 : 09:41:51
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You are absolutely right Turk. But the way I treat issues often depend on their given circumstances. In your case above, there is only one baby crying who happened to be a "Black baby". In Mansasulu's case, there are not only "White mercenaries" but also Blacks, and some of those security companies employing mercenaries in Guinea are Dubai-based. Mansa ignored all those facts and conveniently picked on the "White mercenaries" apparently for a purpose. That constitutes a wreckless disregard of the truth. A distortion, I guess. And no remorse even after he knew that someone (Toubab) is hurt by his utterings.
Another difference is that in your case the lady involved is an older person from an older generation with a different mindset and language usage. Mansa is a younger person, a product of a diversified globalized world; he is expected to know better.
Nevertheless, I would perhaps have told the lady in your case also to exercise restraint and political correctness in her use of language...
On a lighter note, Senator Robert Byrd, the longest serving senator in the U.S. history (he served since 1959, a period when there were no female members) and the Chair of the Appropriations Committee is believed to have still refered to the Senate Appropriations Committee members as "gentlemen" in an apparent failure to recognize the female members. Byrd can survive that because of his age and the generation he is coming from, but I am sure President Obama or Senator John Kerry will not... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 15 Dec 2009 10:22:08 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2009 : 12:25:56
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Come on everyone,enough of this history and throwing more wood on the fire,interesting though it is, we should be discussing real life problems and giving ideas,OK our little input is unlikly to solve anything, that but its good for discussion.TRUCE everyone?  |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 15 Dec 2009 12:28:53 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2009 : 12:35:36
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how is mansa younger. Haven't you seen his picture?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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