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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 03:56:10
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8385069.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8297826.stm
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Switzerland is home to some 300,000 Muslims, who make up about 4% of the population.......She sought to reassure Swiss Muslims, saying the decision was "not a rejection of the Muslim community, religion or culture".
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Switzerland is home to some 300,000 Muslims, who make up about 4% of the population.....Switzerland is home to some 400,000 Muslims and has just four minarets.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 30 Nov 2009 04:04:40 |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 12:30:20
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mr. anti-minaret was on the radio this morning. he want to stop islamisation of switzerland because the koran " brings with it sharia, lack of women's rights, hatred of other religions".
There was a swiss muslim on the programme who said that most of swiss muslims are from non-sharia balkan countries, upheld womens rights and were tolerant of others and the swiss constitution and that this was a purely anti-islam effort. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 13:38:58
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Source= Wiki: In 2007, 1.45 million resident foreigners .... Turkish: 75,382;..... Bosnian: 41,654;
And I know there are signficant Albanian Muslims as well. None of them are radicals. It is pure Islamophobia to me. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Momodou
Denmark
11831 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 14:03:42
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The following is an English translation of a newspaper article here in Denmark.
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The Danish People’s Party wants a referendum on minarets in Denmark.
The Danish People’s Party Leader Pia Kjærsgaard has congratulated Switzerland on the result of its weekend referendum in which a majority of 57.5 percent voted to ban minarets in the country.
“Outstanding that you can have referendums in which people can say what they think. On this issue, the Danish People’s Party will table a bill in Parliament so that we can have a referendum in Denmark too,” says Pia Kjærsgaard.
The Swiss vote was forced through by the right wing Schweizerische Volkspartei (Swiss People’s Party) which collected the 100,000 signatures required by Swiss law in order to force a referendum. Switzerland currently has four minarets in the country.
Denmark has no mosques with minarets. There are, however, plans for grand mosques in Copenhagen and Roskilde.
“We oppose plans for grand mosques in Denmark and believe that a large number of voters agree with us,” says Pia Kjærsgaard.
Edited by Julian Isherwood |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 15:06:57
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B.N.P is campaigning "No more mosque in UK!" I definitely blame the Arabs for not promoting Islam through good courses! |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 15:16:46
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One asks. Is that racism? Human rights violations? Is this against fundamental principle of Secularism?
What is next? Ban Muslim Praying? How about banning publishing and selling Quran as illegal book. How about, trial Prophet Mohammed for crime against humanity. I mean, these people killed millions of Jews only 65 years ago. Not that long ago. Why not kill some Muslims.
It is a plan by nationalists and crusaders. Provoke Muslims. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 30 Nov 2009 15:24:57 |
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dembis
Sweden
71 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 21:29:27
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| banning minarets are definitely undemocratics and we all agree about it. Why are you Arabs or muslim always crying foul, while you are doing the same. Mr turk do you accept that your country turkey commited genocide to the armenian ? and still 90 per of the turkeys people called it a jihad. When Isreal committed crime against Gaza people you all arabs condemmed it but when Sudanese white and lighter arabs killed dark skin Africans , do any Arab coutry called it genocide or what do u say about it though. Egypt and both the arab world thinks its ok and they have nothing against it. Denmark wants to ban the minarets fine but the Deanish people never think of going to Saudi Arabia and built a church or a tourist paradise there. It is so unfair that poor african like me being judge as a bad foreigner because of a group of holy people fighting for their own cultural revolution. Do you think it is ok to wear the burk in Denmark while the Danish people cannot wear bikini in saudi arabia or even your secular country Turkey and go around with it in town ? Treat people like the same way you will want them to treat you back simple as that. |
dembis |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 23:57:06
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DUMBis
What is your agenda? To discuss the issue, or character assasination of me?
You are ignorant. You are making statements based on information that is wrong.
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Why are you Arabs or Muslim always crying foul, while you are doing the same
After all, it does not matter who I am. Are you saying it is because I am a Muslim, I can’t not complain?
First of all, when you say ‘you’, that is incorrect. Turks are NOT Arab. Racially, linguistically, culturally are very different. Turks came to Anatolia from Mongolia and take over the land Anatolia today 1000 years ago and mixed with Greeks. During Ottoman Empire they have expanded to Albania, Bosnia and other Balkan states. So, get some reading first before you make your uneducated comments.
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Mr. turk do you accept that your country turkey commited genocide to the armenian ?
Oh, you know about this. What did you read about so-called Armenian Genocide? You are making statements, seem like you know a lot. Did you read anything from Turkey? Seems like, you are certain that Armenian genocide happened. Tell me why you came to this conclusion? Please enlighten me. I want to have debate on that. Perhaps, open a new topic and let us discuss. Let us have a discussion and I learn about Armenian Genocide.
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and still 90 per of the turkeys people called it a jihad.
Dumbis, you are hilarious. 90 %. Hmm. Last time there was an election socialist, nationalist, communists got 53 % vote. How can you say 90 % of people called jihad. What a statement. Are you saying social democrats, nationalists, communists, green are jihadist. Turkey has been member of NATO and every European Institution since 1950 except EU. Are you saying, West is ally with a Country that has 90 % of jihadist?
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When Isreal committed crime against Gaza people you all arabs condemmed it but when Sudanese white and lighter arabs killed dark skin Africans , do any Arab coutry called it genocide or what do u say about it though.
First of all, Sudanese government, Besir is not Arabic or white. Most Sudanese Arabs are linguisticly, culturally arab not the ancestry.
He is lighter skin African and kills darker skin Africans.
He is an African man. Look African, talk African, walk like an african. Have you ever seen his picture? He is even looking Gambian to me. I have been to Sudan. They may speak Arabic language, but I have not seen many there. All the Sudanese Government, police, soldiers in the capital, they are all African looking darker skin people. I have no clue where you are getting this 'white' or 'arab' talking about. Besides, who cares about them? I can provide critics regardless who I am. Whatever Arabs, Turks or whoever does wrong, does not prevent me to speak against racism.
I do not care about what Devilish Empire Saudi Arabia does. What I care is Swiss act on banning Minarets are wrong. If you want to discuss Saudi Arabia and how they discriminate against Christians, start a topic I will contribute.
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It is so unfair that poor african like me being judge as a bad foreigner because of a group of holy people fighting for their own cultural revolution.
Not only poor, dumb African like you will be judge as bad, uneducated, uninformed and ignorant foreigner when you are confused about what is right or what is wrong. There is only one right. Pick one. It is because Saudi Arabia, the devilish empire is doing wrong, that does not justify what Swiss does.
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Do you think it is ok to wear the burk in Denmark while the Danish people cannot wear bikini in saudi arabia or even your secular country Turkey and go around with it in town ? Treat people like the same way you will want them to treat you back simple as that.
Turkey, bikini is allowed. You can even go nude. Get some facts straight before providing your silly opinions here.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 01 Dec 2009 05:10:40 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 02:39:58
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Dembis
Funny! Not only 'me' and 'arab' is upset. According to you, I may not have right to be upset on this as an 'arab'. But even Vatican is reacting this.
That is nothing to do with 'arab' or 'african'. It is basic human rights issue. Universal. You can't understand it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8385893.stm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swiss-official-hints-at-reversal-of-minaret-ban-1831659.html
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 01 Dec 2009 03:22:33 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 09:29:10
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Is banning Minarets means banning the construction of mosques or censoring Islam ? What are the significance of Minarets to mosques and Islam? What are the significance of adzan (call for prayer from roof tops) to today's time conscious Muslims? Could Muslims meet at the mosques and pray at the stipulated time, like Christians and others do, without the muezzin pounding the Swedish air with an imposing call from roof tops (minarets)for all and sundry to come and pray? Could adzan (calling the public to prayer from roof tops sometimes using loud speakers) be considered using a public adress system that is not necessarily primary to the practice of Islam?
What do you guys think? |
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Momodou
Denmark
11831 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 09:58:56
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Kay, I believe the banning of minarets does not mean a total embargo on mosque construction although the current debate in many countries can be misunderstood as such. There are many mosques here in Europe without minarets and the few with them are not used for calling to prayers. I think minarets are just architectural symbols.
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History
The earliest mosques were built without minarets, the adhan (call to prayer) was performed elsewhere; hadiths relay that the Muslim community of Madina gave the call to prayer from the roof of the house of Muhammad, which doubled as a place for prayer. Around 80 years after Muhammad's death the first known minarets appeared.
-------end quote ---------------- |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 10:24:33
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Thanks Momodou, I truly appreciate your response. My understanding also is that Minarets are purely architectural symbols, the use of which were not existing during Prophet Muhammad's own time.
When I used to attend Friday prayers here in the U.S., we didn't depend on a call to prayer from any minaret or rooftop, we depended on our watches, and even adzan which happens shortly before prayers was very low keyed and purely customary.
I think-this is just my opinion-adzan is customary practice which arguably has outlived its usefulness in the modern cities of Switzerland, France, Germany, Denmark, U.S. or U.K.
The activist and expansonary role of adzan in the early days of Islam is untenable in today's world of personal freedoms and religious co-existence. I think constructing impsoing minarets in heart of Western cities and pounding the air and the ear drums of freedom-conscious citizens five times a day with intimidating call for prayer could be understandably intolerable to many... |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 10:41:38
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The activist and expansonary role of adzan in the early days of Islam is untenable in today's world of personal freedoms and religious co-existence. I think constructing impsoing minarets in heart of Western cities and pounding the air and the ear drums of freedom-conscious citizens five times a day with intimidating call for prayer could be understandably intolerable to many
WOW...SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS.. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 14:53:52
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| To start off, I agree with Kay's understanding that minarets are clearly architectural symbols. What this whole minaret ban brought to the fore front is ISLAM. This in itself should be seen as a victory for the religion. It opens up an avenue to discuss substance rather than just the symbolism of islam. I for once did not know that only 4 out of 150 masajids in Switzerland had Minarets and none are used in making the adhan. Alhamdullillah there are 150 masajids in Switzerland. I think we will be better served by figuring out how to make more people attend those masajids instead of getting bent out of shape because we cant have minarets on them. Its substance over symbolism for me. The fact that we are having this debate alone is victory for the religion of Allah. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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dembis
Sweden
71 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 16:21:37
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| Sorry mr turk if you take this as a personal attack. First of all i am arguing that banning the minarets are wrong and undemoratic and i condemned it. Read my first sentence before you make up your own story. I know for sure that turkish are not Arabs and even iranians are not Arabs too. I live with many nationalities since i left Gambia 10 years ago. What i mean is the muslim should built their own minarets at there countries simple. Why Abrahamian people are always trouble to world since long ago. There are many rligions in this world and even in europe particularly but they shut there mouth and do there things. Europeans succeeded by shutting the christian mouths by proving facts and evideces but this time they have a tuff job because muslims are violences.My english is not good now that i know and is because i live in sweden and study swedish long time . I lost some of my wollof language too which i really hate to admit. Nowadays i speak normal Gambian wollof that live in sweden if you know what i mean. Mr turk I am suprised that you think many people dont know about the turkey`s genocide against the armenians. Bring the topic and i would start making my own research so i can come up with facts. May be i forgot have of what i red about it and what my turkish friend told me. Stop calling me names that is not nice and by the way am sure if my name was Muhamed you wouldn`t dare to called Muhamedumbis or muhkhudumb . This act of frustration that you are showing and lack of respect to people and their cultures , are the result of the banning of minarets. Europeans and other countries are very worried nowadays because they know exactly what is waiting for them when you muslims take over. Heads will be rolling the streets of europe and its is going to be more worst than the Christians time. I know for sure you will be very happy happy to lift your sword high up to show that you have cut a head of a infidel. Which is me because am a muslim that like salman rushdie `satanic verses of islam and like more Da Vinci code by Dan brown. The way you respond to my writings show exactly what type of people you are . One thing i want to say is you support yahya jammeh and show how ignorant you are , for supporting a politician that refuse to accept that he is a politician, The least you could do is to compare me with Al bashir, am dark like a tar . Am one of the most intelligent African you would dare want to meet personally and am sure of that. Just last comment , Turkey allow bikini. I know that and is the capital of the homosexuals in Europe. They tolerate it more than any muslim country or society and thtas what i like about Turkey. I would one fine day visit Turkey to see the MOsque Sofia and make some shopping. |
dembis |
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