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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Dec 2009 : 10:30:32
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quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
To start off, I agree with Kay's understanding that minarets are clearly architectural symbols. What this whole minaret ban brought to the fore front is ISLAM. This in itself should be seen as a victory for the religion. It opens up an avenue to discuss substance rather than just the symbolism of islam. I for once did not know that only 4 out of 150 masajids in Switzerland had Minarets and none are used in making the adhan. Alhamdullillah there are 150 masajids in Switzerland. I think we will be better served by figuring out how to make more people attend those masajids instead of getting bent out of shape because we cant have minarets on them. Its substance over symbolism for me. The fact that we are having this debate alone is victory for the religion of Allah.
Thanks Mansasulu for your response. However, you have appeared to also confirmed the activist, expansionist,ambition for conquest (victory) by the Islamic agenda in Europe/West I was talking about... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 02 Dec 2009 10:32:43 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2009 : 14:44:48
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| To quote Sarah Palin..."Doggone it, Darn Right, You Betcha."! |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2009 : 16:49:03
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quote:
Originally posted by dembis
Why Abrahamian people are always trouble to world since long ago. There are many rligions in this world and even in europe particularly but they shut there mouth and do there things. Europeans succeeded by shutting the christian mouths by proving facts and evideces but this time they have a tuff job because muslims are violences.
Am just interested in red sentence quoted above! Abraham brought off-shoots of three religions; Judaism, Christianity & Islam Therefore what do you mean Islam is for all human race; "Yaa baani Adam!" Europeans cannot highjack christianity because Christ (Essa -S.a.w) was not a european and have never been to europe. Its just an era and as time goes on there will be new dynamics in every social set-up. The politicians are becoming to powerful to over-ride religion; be it Islam, Christianity or others'. World politics is now anti-islam! Read the quran to understand and accept its truth that "Laa illaaha illal lah!" ; which translates that "There is no God except Allah!" that was revealed to all the Prophets. The unfortunate Jews will never accept Christ as Messiah till doomsday and likewise the unfortunate Christians will never accept Prophet Muhamad (s.a.w) and Islam till doomsday. All that is going on is politics and manipulations brought about by a corrupt social set-up. The vatican have spoken and am surprised with comments from French foreign minister. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 14:33:52
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Kayjatta
Of course it is censoring Islam. It is war on Islam by Nationalists gaining ground in Europe once again. Not long ago, another fascist did this in Central Europe only 65 years ago. There is no other explanation. There are only 4 minarets and very small percentage of this country is Muslim. And most of them are moderate Muslims from Albania, Bosnia and Turkey. As I mentioned you before, your Stalinist fascist agenda have a purpose when it comes to religion. Ideally, religious expression is part of individuals’ rights. Where is the value for ‘freedom of expression’? Isn’t it basic and fundamental right of individuals to have religious freedom and mosques are fundamental place for Muslim Community get together. It is fascism to ban a praying place. Minarets are significant. And not Government, not you, Muslim community decides what is significant to them. It is not Government’s business. That is fundamental for secularism principle. Obviously your Stalinist fascist agenda have different understanding when it comes to secularism. We all know that. You or governments are in no position to dictate how Muslims to pray.
Funny, when cartoonists in Denmark insulted Islam, they were defended in the name of freedom of expression, but when a Muslim want to practice its right to express themselves religiously, this principle can not be applied.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 14:56:35
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dembis says
quote:
Mr turk I am suprised that you think many people dont know about the turkey`s genocide against the armenians. Bring the topic and i would start making my own research so i can come up with facts.
Oh, I thought you already had searched and came to conclusion that genocide had happened. Or, you believed in without reading anything about it? Open a topic and let us discuss. Do you need a search, I thought to have such conclusion, you had plenty information and you do not need to do search again.
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Heads will be rolling the streets of europe and its is going to be more worst than the Christians time. I know for sure you will be very happy happy to lift your sword high up to show that you have cut a head of a infidel.
I have no clue why your portray me as a radical Muslim. What was the indication? I am not preying 5 times a day. I have a girl friend that is not Muslim. I occasionally drink beer. Yes I am a Muslim, religious act is limited with my personal space. This is what Islam phobia does to you. You have an illusion, demonization, about the religion of Islam and you see all of the Muslims same.
Oh, I am happy to lift sword high……because I am defending a religious right. I am a secular and liberal. My motivation is to fight against discrimination. My religious act is limited to myself. I have no ill feelings toward any other Christian, Jewish. My reaction is totally based on politics. I am sick and tired of bigots like you demonizing Islam as a religion of hate. There are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world, most of them are not any different from ordinary people who worry about their families, bills and their life.
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I know that and is the capital of the homosexuals in Europe. They tolerate it more than any muslim country or society and thtas what i like about Turkey. I would one fine day visit Turkey to see the MOsque Sofia and make some shopping.
That is true. You got it right. Please visit Turkey and Istanbul and I am sure you will enjoy and the experience the tolerance and freedom Turkish society offers in terms of homosexuality.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 15:01:25
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kayjatta
quote:
Thanks Mansasulu for your response. However, you have appeared to also confirmed the activist, expansionist,ambition for conquest (victory) by the Islamic agenda in Europe/West I was talking about...
Tell us last 500 years, which expansionism and conquest by the Islamic Agenda? Islam has been losing land for last 500 years.
And even Islam to be activist, expansionist or conquest. Which culture and ideology do not have motivation to be more influential? Isn’t it establishing ‘western’, ‘pop culture’, ‘capitalism’ more ambitious to you?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 20:15:59
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kay,
good postings. actually i agree with you and i think also this action is one of the challenges of democracy. accepting the view of the majority (dangerous as it may seem)
however please note that not too long also (the thread is on the Bantaba, i can't find it), Switzerland also had a referrandum in which posting of ''white sheep kicking off black sheep'' where displayed all over the country.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-480493/Proposed-Swiss-immigration-laws-rise-new-racism-xenophobia.html
if these types of posters are accepted and allowed to be displayed, it is therefore, i think, double standards to allow freedom of expression (speech) even in art and then refuse to allow contruction of minarets.as if there are not minerets in France, the UK, the US etc.
i think Switzerland, which has a highly educated population, is allowing democrcy to be abused. rather than educate their population about Islam, they allow silly parties to play on people's fears. perhaps its true that the majority are infact narrow minded... we sometimes give them too much credit.
who knows, they might surprise us next with a referendum on whether people in dark black long suits with curly locks falling under black hats with long beards heading for the nearest synagogue should be allowed to live and walk in the streets on a Western City!!!!!!
lets see if that would be understandably intolerable!!! |
Edited by - njucks on 03 Dec 2009 20:22:58 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 23:31:05
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Personally I LOVE the call to prayer when I am at Tendaba...but understand that in Western Society people might not want to hear it!
I feel we need to learn tolerance of each other and learn to co-exist. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2009 : 01:07:46
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lurker and gambiabev
I understand your concern about 'call to player' noise. While I keep my stand on 'banning minarets' is terrible and it is against secularism and freedom of religious expression. The annoying sound of 'call to player' could have been resolved with the proper policies. It is a technical issue between municipal government and Muslims. Muslims are not Marsians and unreasanable people. But the way this come out little bid noisy, political campaign, the posters, referadum really provacation. Our right, preying place were subjected to a political campaign. The agenda is making noise and provoke muslims and part of demonization of Muslims to me. If minarets were so important, Muslims in Swiss would have build many more than 4 minarets. Don't you think? Don't you think banning minarets are overreaction. The level of civilization in society has co-relationship with the tolarance level. And in democracy is not only the regime for majority.
Let me tell a personal experience. Turban, hijab, scarf are banned at Universities for girls in Turkey. Since the ban, more Muslims girls are wearing hijab. When I was at University late 90s, there were not as many as girls wearing hijab in Turkey. Now, seems like most of them wearing hijabs just for stuborness. That is human psychology, human has dignity, if you push them so much, they will became more aggressive. I guarantee if this ban is removed in Turkey, less Muslimas will wear hijab. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2009 : 07:11:57
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
Personally I LOVE the call to prayer when I am at Tendaba...but understand that in Western Society people might not want to hear it!
I feel we need to learn tolerance of each other and learn to co-exist.
This is exactly my point! Mansasulu, Turks, and Njucks (good to hear from you Njucks); I am not against consrructing mosques and Minarets. My concern is that using minarets with loud speakers, no matter how few they are, to blast the neighborhood with a self-righteous call to prayer could understandably be offensive to many in the Western world. In the Gambia or Saudi Arabia it might be okay, but in the Western world with high concern for individual rights and personal space, it may not.
I personally think that the call for prayers from "roof tops" using loud speakers is not very necessary in the practice of Islam in today's world and could be less emphasized where circumstances makes it inappropriate. Many other denominations do congregational prayers without such public 'campaign' (using in many cases what amounts to a Public Address System). In Jammeh's Gambia (okay Mansasulu, here I come again at Jammeh  ) even the UDP has to apply for a permit from the IGP to address the public. But Gambia is predominantly Muslim, so no one cares about the 'noise' coming from minarets, but Switzerland with a majority of non-Muslims (or non-religious) does care. Can't we just live at peace with our neighbors (in their own land) respectfully without attempting to convert them ? |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2009 : 14:39:45
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| Kay, I really hate to dwell more on the minaret ban because it distracts from the bigger picture here. Th point is that none of the minarets in question are mounted with loud speakers to blast the call to prayer. The whole objective is that they want to suppress the symbolism the minaret represents and there in lies the crus of the matter. The "silent noise "(no pun intended) coming from the minarets is not the question here. They are trying to oppress/suppress islam here and that is a losing battle. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 15:17:48
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| Opponents of Islam are fighting a futile battle against Islam. Islam is not about SIGNS, SYMBOLS OR IDOLS but about "A MESSAGE CONVEYED THROUGH THE QURAN!" and taught to us by Prophet Muhamad through good deeds! They can ramsack mosque, ban minarets, customary burkas, slander the Prophet and tore the Quran into pieces but none can overcame the fundamental truth for e.g; "Laa illaaha illal laa! ("There is no God except one- Allah!"); "Yaa Baani Adam ("All mankind are same human beings and each responsible for your own deeds!")or God is only God and human beings are just human beings and his servants! These are few basic universal concepts from its message! |
Edited by - kobo on 07 Dec 2009 15:18:46 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2009 : 02:46:02
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http://www.echr.coe.int/NR/rdonlyres/D5CC24A7-DC13-4318-B457-5C9014916D7A/0/EnglishAnglais.pdf
Greens in SWISS, going to European Human Rights Court. I hope court make ruling against the ban. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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