| Author |
 Topic  |
|
mansasulu
997 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 15:42:56
|
Tamsier you have provided no evidence that your source was a Muslim. If you did the whole forum cannot miss that. Someone does not become a former Muslim by virtue of saying it. If you are that credible we won't be having this conversation. The point I was making which you unsurprisingly missed is that whether he was a Muslim yesterday is irrevant. The fact is that the guy is what he is-an evangelical Christian. Furthermore i am truely perplexed you by hard you are holding on to a sinking piece of evidence. You posted your source and failed to provide your sources identity and when we lay the facts for all to see you claim you don't have time to put his biography up. And please don't put garbage up here and expect us to believe it.
|
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
 |
|
|
tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 17:46:00
|
How pathetic. Instead of accepting you have made a mistake you are trying to justify it. His books my neighbours faith and the legacy of Arab Islam in Africa. His middle name derives from ‘Bismillah’ given to him at birth by his Muslim parents. The ‘John’ forename was added after his conversion. Are you also saying that his devout Muslim father is [and family] not a true Muslim? Ha! Ha! Ha! You make me laugh. I would have challenged you to say that in front of his face. How about the pathetic imam Sheikh Sharabutu - his venomous attacker?
You and people like you cannot change history because you want to. No matter how hard you try. People like you live in denial. The sooner peole like you get off your high horse, put aside your Quran for one minute, look at the archives and evidence then make an inform judgement you will always stay at the bottom. Then again, as Dembish implied, perhaps it’s at the bottom were you should stay.
|
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
|
|
|
Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 19:32:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
Tamsier you have provided no evidence that your source was a Muslim. If you did the whole forum cannot miss that. Someone does not become a former Muslim by virtue of saying it. If you are that credible we won't be having this conversation. The point I was making which you unsurprisingly missed is that whether he was a Muslim yesterday is irrevant. The fact is that the guy is what he is-an evangelical Christian. Furthermore i am truely perplexed you by hard you are holding on to a sinking piece of evidence. You posted your source and failed to provide your sources identity and when we lay the facts for all to see you claim you don't have time to put his biography up. And please don't put garbage up here and expect us to believe it.
Mansa, this guy was ignored here by majority of brothers because they thought he was a lunatic, but to be honest, the likes of him should be confronted with their nonsence attack against Islam. I think, we should now be blaming every single serere criminal against the great tribe of the Serere. What a stupid way to make attacks. Tamsier is late in the day. Even bible tombing evangalist are rather avoiding reppeating the vile lies concotted against Islam.
Tamsier is too minor to play mind games on the vast intelligent muslim brother and sisters here. If you respect the people you are discussing with, you get equal treatment. be rude, and you will find equal response. how can you claim to be a proud black man, whilst at the same time insulting them for accepting religion of their choice? what is wrong with you?
If you are non-believer, good luck in your intelligent denial of GOd, but please respecct others in the faith they choice or converse with them respectfully. I wonder if you are even Serere at all.
There are Serere Muslims you have insulted with your silly petty remark, i wonder if you know what you are talking about. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
|
|
|
dembis
Sweden
71 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 21:42:34
|
| brother tam dont bother yourself much. some blacks are stiff neck fools thats why they are secomd class citizens everywhere. My jamaican friend ask me why their are no black prophets ?and why black people dont have their own religion ? Muslim likes praises and zero percent tolerant of criticism. All other blacks want to represent important post in their wannabe faiths. If a muslim man die he will go to heaven and he is going to have hundreds of virgin women `uru ay nis`. What about the muslim women? can they get as much as they wish and do some styles. Heaven is nice. We all wish it is true. When bilal wants to get marry and their is no single sahaba that wants to give him his daughter, while all of them share the women whom they kill their husband. The prophet muhamed (saw) told him to go to his own people which are blacks. Now that Ethiopia are having draught and millions of people been hunger. Lets wait and see if Saudi arabia would donate money to them. When they seek refuge to the Ethiopian king he accept them fully and guarantee the muslims security. They are always proud to say it loud. Myself i like islam and my grandma that i like most in the whole world is a muslim. |
dembis |
|
|
|
Prince
507 Posts |
|
|
mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 23:38:52
|
| Tamsier, ones name does not make him or her a Muslim. There are people with typical Muslim names who are not Muslim. Frankly, I believe you are really disturbed. You can't change the fact that you source is an evangelical Christian whose sole agenda is evangelism. You seem to be contend with your africanism or what ever believe system you espouse or are fervently trying to advance so let people believe man. The best thing that happened to me is Islam. Our prophet never owned slaves and no where in the Quran does Allah tell us to own slaves. In fact, the Quran encourages us to free slaves. There is a difference between a Muslim and an Arab. Not all Arabs are Muslims. The sooner you focus on more important thing in life the better it is for you. Dude you ain't getting reparations from anyone so please keep your peace. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
Edited by - mansasulu on 25 Oct 2009 23:42:04 |
|
|
|
tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 23:41:23
|
Cousin Dembis,
I agree with your points especially about your Jamaican friend's question. We have had this discussion here a long time ago when I said you will not find black prophets in the foreign religions only in the indigenous African religions. I don't think one can open the eyes of another to a new way of thinking when the indoctrination has taken generations, even if one presents the evidence to them. No matter how strong the evidence, they will always refuse to see it.
Santanfara,
Contrary to what you believe, I do not hate any African brother or sister on this site. You of all people should know that. Bro Santanfara, calm down. Too much anger is not good for the heart. As regards to your point that the majority of brothers on this site are ignoring me because they think I am a lunatic, I would like to know who these brothers you speak off are. Apart from one person whom I have ignored [and told him so] who is not even an African brother, I would like to know who these brothers are. They could not be Madiba, Mansaulu or Kobo because we sometimes do have exchanges even though I can probably guess they think I am a lunatic. So unless you know something I don't, out them now. Even better, it you are one of these brothers Santanfara is talking about, be a man and show your hand. I always believe in expressing your opinion and I have always done so - on this site, in my private or professional life. So all those who have ignored me [which can be easily proven because we only need to look at the postings] and believe that I am a lunatic say 'I'. As I have told you before, this is why I respect you Santanfara. Even though we come from different faiths, you have never held back what you really think and this is the reason why I always think that you are a 'Jambarr'. A Jambarr always stand up and be counted. Perhaps these brothers you speak off can make history by standing up and be counted. My word we need more ‘Jambarrs’.
|
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
|
|
|
mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 23:46:14
|
| Count me among those who think you are deluded. However, I am not gonna sit down and watch you advance your crap |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
|
|
|
tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2009 : 00:59:25
|
Prince,
Thank you. You are right to question. I always admire people who question facts. However, may be you have not read his book, but the figure stated does not only pertain to 19th century. It refers to the 1400 years period of Islam including present as stated in his book as well as in the video. Assuming your source’s figures are correct, your figures are still not at odds with his figures. He did say just in the 1800s [19th century], the estimated Transaharan trade was about 2million. Even if we are to add the 8 million calculated to have died, giving a total slave of 10 million, this is till within your figures. Even taking the 28 million [during the period of the Atlantic slave trade] this figure pertaining to the Transaharan trade still falls within your figures. As it is a law of nature that people breed, and our African polygamous marriages enabled men to marry more than one wife, in order to have more children to help with farming etc, and in the old days women tend to marry young around 16 years old [which some people still do to this day], this fall within the figures prescribed.
As regards to his tone, that is the way he speaks when he is giving presentation, even when he is giving presentation on his own religion [Christianity]. I think that style of presentation may be too much for some people, but that is how he is. This style of delivering you can find in the African/American churches, some Arab Islamic scholars and clerics etc. I appreciate that it may be too much for you, even I sometimes find it too much but that is his style of presentation. Different people have different styles. You find this style in many religion historians. A totally different speciality from other historians who specialises in other areas e.g. roman, dynasties, etc.
|
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
|
|
|
tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2009 : 01:08:22
|
Mansasulu,
'Count me among those who think you are deluded. However, I am not gonna sit down and watch you advance your crap.'
No surprises there.
As I said, you, Kobo and Madiba don't count based on Santanfara's remark. |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
|
|
|
Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2009 : 01:57:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by tamsier
Prince,
Thank you. You are right to question. I always admire people who question facts. However, may be you have not read his book, but the figure stated does not only pertain to 19th century. It refers to the 1400 years period of Islam including present as stated in his book as well as in the video. Assuming your source’s figures are correct, your figures are still not at odds with his figures. He did say just in the 1800s [19th century], the estimated Transaharan trade was about 2million. Even if we are to add the 8 million calculated to have died, giving a total slave of 10 million, this is till within your figures. Even taking the 28 million [during the period of the Atlantic slave trade] this figure pertaining to the Transaharan trade still falls within your figures. As it is a law of nature that people breed, and our African polygamous marriages enabled men to marry more than one wife, in order to have more children to help with farming etc, and in the old days women tend to marry young around 16 years old [which some people still do to this day], this fall within the figures prescribed.
As regards to his tone, that is the way he speaks when he is giving presentation, even when he is giving presentation on his own religion [Christianity]. I think that style of presentation may be too much for some people, but that is how he is. This style of delivering you can find in the African/American churches, some Arab Islamic scholars and clerics etc. I appreciate that it may be too much for you, even I sometimes find it too much but that is his style of presentation. Different people have different styles. You find this style in many religion historians. A totally different speciality from other historians who specialises in other areas e.g. roman, dynasties, etc.
Thanks tamsier, numbers could be argued over for ages without reaching conclusion.
I don't have a dog in your religious discussions.... religion, like love; is NOT logical. You'd likely find find loopholes in all religions, either due to a misunderstanding or....
But hey, who I'm I to fight God's wars ? Word is, his been around forever, he will sure take care of his fights.
Once again, thanks for the clarifications... |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
|
|
|
kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2009 : 10:42:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by kobo
I have read your comments and you appear to be very confused and poisonous to the naive mind Don't you realised that all your references are BACK TO DARK AGES AND HISTORY WITHOUT SUBSTANCE FOR DISTORTION AND DIS-ORIENTATION THAT ONLY SUITS YOUR PURPOSE TO DISCREDIT ONE OF THE GREATEST RELIGION EVER Where do you want to take us on your African patriotism What am hearing from you is all about "HATRED, RACISM, TRIBALISM & PAGANISM")
PLEASE TELL ME WHAT RELIGION OPTIONS DO I HAVE IF I DON'T BECOME A MUSLIM OR PRACTICE ISLAM WHAT IS THE BEST RELIGION FOR AFRICANS AND WHY BE FAIR AND BALANCE AND STOP CASTIGATING ISLAM PLEASE FOR ITS JUST INTER-FAITH DISCUSSION
REMINDING YOU THAT WE HAVE A PENDING TOPIC AND THIS TOPIC IS MOVED AS REALTED TO THAT Bantaba General topic: What a shame.
Kobo, do Africans have to belief in a religion at all ? Why can't Africans like you KNOW something rather than BELIEF in something...
Tamsier, I like your phrase above "...Muslim mafia"... |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2009 : 16:55:48
|
Kay! Do you forget history lessons on religion and advancement of civilisation Throw your question to Tamsier on racism, African patriotism and orientation please I am addressed as "Yaa Bani Adam!" in holy quran and not an African, European, Arab or Jew etc
You can hate, slander, provoke, persecute and victimise muslims in all forms; with all political names..."extremist, radicals, mafia, etc" but Islam is where UNIVERSAL NORMS ARE CLEARLY PRONOUNCED FOR MANKIND TILL DOOMSDAY!
Tamsier! Please stop the personal attacks and focus on why you hate Islam I will deal with all your references later.
|
Edited by - kobo on 26 Oct 2009 16:58:30 |
|
|
|
Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2009 : 12:59:36
|
Tamsier, in as much you wish to convey anti-arabism, by pretending to be more black than many of us is nonsensical. There are thousand and one proud black men and women who are equally very good muslims. Those people will never hide the fact that, some Arabs colluded with some blacks in capturing innocent people which is criminal in Islam. But for you to pretend that others are angry and you are sober is rediculus. your first statement borders on lies and rudeness.
responding to you is never an angry manifestation. You are behaving just like the military generals, after bombing innocent people, they hide behind public anger. when you disrepect people with your anti-islamism, what do you expect?
I know for sure, you have your keen fans, be they Christains who equally want to leave the enslaving tag on Arabs-Muslims whilst making films, Micheal Cain pretending to be freeing women and children slaves. This is all under our watch Tam. Never over estimate your enlightenment than us here.
we have travelled, see things, read things yet we are proud black muslims.
No Christain, pdeuso athiest can write or make any anti-Muslim film or book and expect Muslims to tell him, thank you for freeing us, thank you for enlightening us. No chance my friend.
I respect your quest to establish a perspective on Serere History, but please do it accurately and with respect, That way, many brothers will read and respect your academic endevour.
We are not angry people, that is a stupid tag and a propaganda. Whatever a man do which is wrong and abuses humna being, he/she shall get the punishment from our maker.
We condem every person who uses force to control human beings. Every human being who uses unequal trade rules to make others poor, and all forms of injustice is condemed. Be it by Muslim, Christian, animist, athiest, humanist, Hindu, Buhdish etc.
Tamsier, my advice to you as always being, if you have a philospphy, a religious agenda, a way of thinking that you think senegambians can benefit from, decoment it and publiicise it. But why repeddling negative lies and distorted images, to shock and then infleunce, you are wasting your time. Islam is beyond shallow distortion, this is why the late Pope John Paul appoligises on behalf of his denominations for writing lies against Islam for centuries, and unfortunately, those lies are still use by Bishops, frantic preachers (pastors) televangelist etc. But alas, Islam has being growing more than Christainity, more than lovely dovely Buhdism and Hindusm etc. That was why Pope John show the futility in negative propagation. even Marlyn Mason made similar statement, he said "by scaring people and distorting the facts about him a rock star, the rullng elite hope to divert attention". If the Christians want to preach to people, they have a good book that they can use, and they should stop supporting untruth against Islam becus it makes them look good. More slaves died in the atlantic journey than the desert. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
|
|
|
tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2009 : 22:32:37
|
Santanfara,
‘Tamsier, in as much you wish to convey anti-arabism, by pretending to be more black than many of us is nonsensical.’
More black! More black! You trivialise my African heritage and as a result trivialise your own. More black! My black skin does not define me. It is my African heritage inherited from the ancients whose ancient culture and tradition have been passed to their descendants and are enjoyed not merely by their African descendants in the continent, but other cultures throughout the world in the form of music, dance and culture. Do not black or white me in my own continent. There are Indians who are as black as my black friends but we refer to them as Asians. We don’t refer to Asians as brown or yellow for Chinese, etc. We refer to them as Asians, because by saying Asians you demonstrate that they have a culture and heritage. It is only the Africans and those who have some African lineage that still allow the Europeans to define them by the colour of their skin, instead of by their African heritage. Why do you think the African-Americans went from being called Negros, coloured, etc and ended up with African-American? Although I have no problem with the word black per-say, it only identifies my skin colour not my heritage. Although the word ‘Africa’ itself derived from a Spanish/Italian saint in the religion of the Christians, at least if you say the ‘Africans’ one can identify the race of people you are talking about. More black!
‘There are thousand and one proud black men and women who are equally very good muslims.’
Is that all? That’s not a huge number is it?
‘Those people will never hide the fact that, some Arabs colluded with some blacks in capturing innocent people..’
Of course they wouldn’t, but since they are numerically minute compared to the millions of ‘black’ muslims, no one hears them.
‘your first statement borders on lies and rudeness.’
Is it ‘lie’ or ‘rudeness?’ There is no such thing as a little bit pregnant -,someone is either pregnant or not. Make up your mind. In any case, why?
‘I know for sure, you have your keen fans, be they Christains who equally want to leave the enslaving tag on Arabs-Muslims whilst making films, Micheal Cain pretending to be freeing women and children slaves.’
Christian Europe as well as Africans have accepted their part in that trade. Whatever you think of these two, at least they have recognised their part in it. That leaves one group {arabs} , who think it is beneath them to even recognise their part. What Michael Cain are you referring to? The actor? What does he have to do with this? He make films doesn’t he? Surely you don’t take his films seriously.
‘This is all under our watch Tam. Never over estimate your enlightenment than us here. we have travelled, see things, read things yet we are proud black muslims. No Christain, pdeuso athiest can write or make any anti-Muslim film or book and expect Muslims to tell him, thank you for freeing us, thank you for enlightening us. No chance my friend. ’
Well that’s part of my point. If you’ve travelled all over and had the opportunity to gather evidence from all available sources why disregard them when the evidence is so great. Is the problem :– you didn’t research or you did research but choose to ignore it? The word ‘you’ is in the plural form.
‘I respect your quest to establish a perspective on Serere History, but please do it accurately and with respect, ..’
What does the Sereres have to do with this? Is it because of what I said when referring to Dembis a Serere cousin? That was an example Santa. It was used in reference to the fact that Dembis saw the point I was making and happens to be Serere. My remark about the Sereres’ 1000 year historical battles against islam is true. Are you telling me that is not true or is it the way I said you had a problem with? Santa, I already stated there that I don’t want that statement to be seen as tribalism and emphasised my hatred of tribalism. So I don’t know why you of all people took offense to that.
‘We condem every person who uses force to control human beings. Every human being who uses unequal trade rules to make others poor, and all forms of injustice is condemed. Be it by Muslim, Christian, animist, athiest, humanist, Hindu, Buhdish etc.’
May be few do, but as we all know, in virtually almost all cases, majority rules.
‘my advice to you as always being, if you have a philospphy, a religious agenda, a way of thinking that you think senegambians can benefit from, decoment it and publiicise it.’
Are you kidding? After the attack not just on me but on John [the author]as well. Sadly, I wouldn’t encourage any up an coming African historian to write. Leave it with the outsiders to write African history, that’s how African like it based on these attacks by the Senegambian muslims.
‘..alas, Islam has being growing more than Christainity, more than lovely dovely Buhdism and Hindusm etc. That was why Pope John show the futility in negative propagation.’
I am not interested in anything the Pope had to say or his successor – the Hitler youth sitting on his throne. These are the people who dissuade others from the use of condoms when people are dying of aids; these are the people whose churches are full of paedophiles yet they castigate lesbians and gay people; these are the people who part-took and benefited from the Atlantic slave trade [through their predecessors]. I don’t want to know what these people think. I don’t want to hear them.
‘More slaves died in the atlantic journey than the desert.’
If you are referring to the Atlantic period only, then you are correct. If you are referring to the 1400 period of of Arab- islam, you are wrong.
I never had you for a head banger with your Marilyn Manson quote.
|
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
Edited by - tamsier on 27 Oct 2009 22:34:00 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
