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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
 Posted - 02 May 2006 : 14:01:04
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Babylon, you are completely missing the point.
It's not about ill-wishing but rather seeing the obvious.Would you want your people to follow something that is bad just because other people are doing it, and are maybe through greed and wrong-doing where they are now?
The thing is, if you talk to many Gambians you see some "lost" in our world, and,like Maveric, dissing his own forefathers and fellow countrymen, or some see and learn to appreciate their culture even more, because they see the good and bad in each society.
The toubabs you talk about in your reply sound to me like they are the average, typical toubab, selfish, ignoring the people's culture(because only our way is the right way)no respect and understanding for each other.
Gambians who haven't traveled yet have a sickness that everything in the West is better and their future lies here.But as soon as they travel and get to know our world, MANY see the bad things.But most people have the decency to keep quiet because most toubabs are ignorists and don't understand how many africans see the West.So what's the point trying to explain....A proverb comes to mind: You can take the donkey to the river, but you can't force him to drink
The whole point is, once again, don't follow everything, think about what is right and what not |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2006 : 14:36:50
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But the thing is Twinkly, what you think and feel is right for you may not be right for all. To me democracy in a society is very important, and democracy to me means free choise and demanding your rights. I´m very sad to see when people are opressed and forced to live a certain way because of lack of choise.
That is why I am against any kind of dictatorship or preachers who claim to know best what is right or wrong, when that is really up to the single person to decide how he or she wants to live his or her life . That should be a basic human right to chose how you want to live, that includes the right to even join a dating service without being judged. You can never say that what you think is the best is the best way for all, or that one society is better than the other. Although there may be a great lack of morality here in the West, that doesn´t mean we are all immoral *****s. There are very good kids being raised here by good, intelligent, loving parents. Even by single moms who may have kids by different fathers (which by the way isn´t just a western phenomenon). It all depends on good guidance if the child turns out to be a good respectful individual, and that is not at all depending on which part of the world the child is being raised up in. That is absolute nonsense. |
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mavaric
Turkmenistan
94 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2006 : 16:46:49
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The Gambia's first online Dating section launched,they are fuming,they are getting angry,they claim it is "haram", this is not new. We have seen this happening all over the world. It wasnt a suprise, it is part of human nature for people to be defensive and offensive on the introduction of new things.Adaptation is a slow process,especially for the ones whose generation is running dry and as they step into the new generation, everything is shocking to them.Children are learning in better and faster ways, continuing to leave their parents and grandparents in the dust of mental saturation.This thread will not reach a conclusion, it will keep raving on as this is Now Generation Vs Old Generation and its common to see clashes of ideas,morals and perceptions of things. But the question is, who needs to change ? That I will leave for you to decide. Sister mariama, Before you start saying something, it is very important that you do your research first or you run the risk of your character been assasinated.I can help you start by visiting http://www.muslimfriends.com . The funny thing is, atleast the a dating site gives most people a choice compared to arrange marriage where you are forced to spend the rest of your life with someone else, even against your will. So now, which is immoral ? Having a choice to choose or to be forced ? I say if anything should be immoral, its arrange marriage.
Firstly, Madiba, you said " SO NO MATTER WHAT PROGRESS WE WANT FOR OUR PEOPLE IT MUST BE THE RIGHT STUFF" . You have not asked yourself, who decides what the right stuff is. You ? And secondly, you swayed a little bit off topic as we talking about Gambia Online Dating and not about youths smoking at young age.
Kondorong, am not fuming, I can assure you that. You claim to have travelled the world and had a rich life(I believe you ). However, that doesnt prove any point. I have seen Gambians living in europe and america for 25yrs and they have not adapted or changed. Its like their way of life and mindset is stamped on their forehead.
Twinky, you said "Maveric, dissing his own forefathers and fellow countrymen.." . Lets be clear on this. I am not dissing. I am simply telling the truth. You have just proved my point. Telling the truth about how I feel about something you tag as "dissing" is old generation thinking. They cannot handle the truth so the best defense mechanism for them is to use age. The truth hurts but if you adapt to change, it eases the pain as you would see it as an argumentative point rather than a "diss".
I will end part in this debate by concluding this : People are different,Societies inject a bit of their ways into each other and always will. Other societies way of life will be injected in ours either we like it or not. It is up to each individual to accept or reject it.
I hope you all found this thread educational for all of us and it is exactly what I wish to see more Gambians do, question. Spit out the Hows,Whys,Whens and Who's, only then can we finally open our minds.
Regards |
Edited by - mavaric on 05 Oct 2006 08:56:46 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2006 : 17:11:21
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Online dating is just another way to meet someone. Family, friends, pubs, clubs, social activities,newspaper adverts and now online dating......
Of course you have to be careful, people might not be who they appear. It is easy to lie online.
But just because you meet online doesnt mean you are going to meet the person for a date or have sex. It is your choice. I talk online to men........havent met any of them.
How can online dating be forbidden in the Koran? The possiblity of it wouldnt even have been known ........ so is it a MAN MADE LAW that forbids it?
Some people use on line dating and meet a SPECIAL someone.....it doesnt necessarily mean they are going to meet LOTS of people and be promiscious.......and even if they are, as long as they are careful and dont hurt anyone whose business is it???!!!! |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2006 : 17:18:43
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Twinkly
I was brought up to believe sex was precious etc...... by my strict parents and the church.
What they failed to tell me was it can also be FUN...ENJOYABLE.... LIBERATING....EXERCISE........DEGRADING......POWER STRUGGLE etc.....
You can have beautiful caring passionate sex with someone you love.......thats called making love........ but there are many other forms too. DONT idealise it PLEASE.
It can be emotional, or if you chose it can be just physical.
Use protection and make it clear to each other what the deal is...then there is no problem.
We are living in 2006!!!! Women dont just want to procreate! |
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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2006 : 18:26:25
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Thank you Gambiabev for your friendly words of advice.
I will take a backseat now(much to Babylon's pleasure ).I can see why most Gambians don't interfere...that's for you lot to figure out if you think you care
We have a saying in Swiss:
The cleverer gives in, the donkey stands still......
Babylon, take a looong good look at yourself, how dare you, preaching democracy, and calling me a dictator and preacher.I thought everybody, including me has the right to their opinion?
Cool down and think about what you write, control your anger and aggression against me, I might even agree to some thing you say
I'll keep out of it for a while, we all know a pregnant woman's temper
happy learning.... |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2006 : 18:56:06
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Mavric
I am not convinced. There is a thin line between DATING, ESCORT AND PROSTITUTION. They all end up in one place HOPEFULLY in the bed room.
If your contribution to modernising the Gambian society is to allow our daughters and sisters be prostituted in cyberspace, then i dont want to smell your coffee. By the way i live in Starbucks country. In my city we decide what kind of coffee you drink around the world. Starbucks is the leading coffee giant in the world and such you seem to be preaching to the choir. We have a lot of lattes, mocha with over 200 varieties of coffee drink. Boy i drank a lot of coffee.
I will bet that someone very dear to you is not on the site being seduced by online predators, sex offenders or child molestors. You need to educate your Gambian audience to know that there are risks involved that can lead to abductions, deaths or rape. My advice to you is to have a lawyer on your side and someone who knows a bit about cyber crime. This will help you put in safeguards to ensure that it does not lead to vices i personally have fears about.
Trust nothing in cyberspace. I am more concerened about safety than the moral issues. What is bad is left to your conscience.Besides, who is kondorong. I am just an individual trying to exercise my freedom of speech and so are you. This is a healthy debate that can only happen in a free society. I had hoped that you prepared yourself for the challenge ahead. Please dont give in life. This is just the beginning and there are many bigger obstacles to junp over and nothing comes easy.
I understand that there are thousand that enjoy online dating but it is certainly not my passion. Expressing my beliefs is not anti progress or being a dictator. Rather your quick attack on my belief is what a dictatorship is about. NOT ALLOWING OTHERS TO EXPRESS ANYTHING THAT RUNS COUNTER TO THEIR BELIEVES. In business you must be able to listen to your customers. By listening to some of us who have our reservations, you can then improve on those things that will attract us back. In business there is no compulson but incentives. I hope you will add this to your business arsenal. Secondly, it has been proven that for every one customer who complains, there are 50 others not satisfied but who have not complained. This is also a very good business tip you should take on board.
I am not an old generation having been born well after independence. Besides, lets not drag this into an issue of old and new generation thing. The problem with our society is that many young men like me believe that the elders in the Gambia are good for nothing who do not understand life and as such are not enjoying it. You seem to have a lot of hatred about gambian society and especially the so called old generation. Rememeber you were brought up by that generation and as such you should be grateful enough to thank them to have shaped you today, gave you oportunity to be educated, fed you clothe you and gave you care that you able to be part of the "modern" society you claim they are missing. Is that not contradictory. If they are capable of "modernising" you, then they are either capable if being modernised or have infact modernised. You cannot sow rice and harvest corn.
I will support any good cause a gambian starts as i have written to the Janha foundation but i will not support anything that i believe will lead to morale decadence of our society. I suppourt your courage to do something different and i commend you for that. May be if we had more creative people like you, and using trial and error, we would have advanced a long time ago. Change is a process not many want to face and that includes me. In any change, there is denial whether good or bad. However it depends on what kind of change you are undertaking. There is MANAGEMENT FOR CHANGE AND MANAGEMENT OF CHANGE. Each has its owns strategies, an area well beyond the scope of bantaba. If some of my concerns are attended to, then i will be one of your big converts. PLEASE DONT THROW THE BABY WITH THE LAUNDRY. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2006 : 19:14:39
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Lol! Angry, who me? Naaaah girl, I´m as happy as one can be... I ain´t mad at cha. I´m only mad at dictators, preacher wannabes and other wiseguys and selfdeclared professors who sit on their high horses and judge forgetting that we´re all only homo sapiens. Just expressing my views, ya know we all need to let off some steam from time to time. Sorry if I touched any eventual soft spots.
I kinda dig you Twinkly, for always standing up for your beliefs.
Tho I may disagree. 
And are you pregnant.. Congratulations! |
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taalibeh
Gambia
336 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2006 : 23:13:17
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Konds, thanks once again bro. You really have a sense of response. All you have said is the FACT. We MUST recognise that there are traditions out side other traditions. What is deemed right for one society is obviously not right for another.
The RESPECTFUL way to behave is to recognise and give due respect to other peoples' way of live. In short Western people want to defend everything western and castigate all others. This cannot be right. |
Taalibeh |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2006 : 23:35:24
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Talibeh
i have seen a lot of hypocrisy by many Gambian men. Most people will like to date girls and fool around. When it comes to getting married, they tend to look for the "unmodernised and untouched" ones. many girls have fallen victim to that. We always investigate not only about the girl but even her family history.
If we can be this careful about who we marry, then we should be responsible enough to not throw others to the wolves thereby making them "unfit" as our life long partners. There are many horrid tales.
Western culture cannot be inplanted in Africa. Period. We do not have to eat, sleep, drink western to be developed. Infact socities that hung on their ways of lives have been able to make Great strides in both economic and social advancement. Theory X and X are western concepts. Today Theory Z is being studied in western management schools. The Asians have been able to advance without necessarily being westernised. By age 21 most kids leave home. In Gambia, the family is even cemented more. We should cherish that otherwise family values will disappear.
There is a difference between education and knowledge which sjhould not be confused.
The family and social structures are very different and we should not be copy cats. Then again we should take what serves our collective interests and we should not close our doors to the forces of positive change. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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taalibeh
Gambia
336 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2006 : 00:15:24
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Pure and simple kondorong. This is our problem. Flattery for shelfishness is moral bankruptcy. If I do not like something, I should avoid to create the same situation for others. We have rich cultures and values but we decide to trade them for the unsuitable only to satisfy some individuals. That aint right.
Most of the time we like to feel inferior and often cry foul when we are treated low. |
Taalibeh |
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Oska
2 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2006 : 03:48:39
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Hi Every1
I want to comment on the topic that brought about all this talk, Mavaric a talented GAMBIAN YOUTH came up wit da idea of creating a Gambian Date site. His idea materialized and he created this beautiful page. But to my amazement, some low thinking people started hating. I am not planning to say much but before I go on I would like us to look at the word “DATE”, most ignorant people will associate it with sex or with immoral behaviour, but wat people fail to realise is that dating is just an engagement with someone. In other words dating is just another form of friendship, it’s a way in which people from different cultures and back grounds meet over a drink or something of that sort (it could be lunch as well).
Why do people have to use religion to hide? Most fanatics quote religion as if they own it or as if they are living by it. Most people who claim to b righteous are most sinful, wolf in sheep’s clothing. Where in religion, is da internet forbidding or creating a dating page forbidden? How did most of the great men in religion get married?
Please people, don’t b enemies of progress, there is noting wrong with wat Mavaric did, infact he should b commended for his effort. Most of u claiming that wat he did is wrong or HARRAM don’t happen to be in da Gambia, they see worst tings everyday, people walking half naked in the streets yet still they look, it says in da good book that if your eye causes u to sin, pluck it out. Stop being hypocrites, when people don’t work you complain, when they do you condemn, Acting angels over people and mind u no disrespect intended but if da great people of our religion were around in this generation, they would use the service.
i don't like wasting my time with people who still think we are in the stone age.
good luck with your lives, just know that we are 100% hater proof.
hollaaaaaa |
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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2006 : 09:50:42
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taalibeh and kondorong
Thank you for your wise words, it is a pleasure to read so early in the morning You hit the nail on the spot.
babylon
go and tell it to somebody who cares.In your language: I ain't playin' your childish moodswing-games |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2006 : 10:56:08
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| WOAH! Twinkly... u always make me laugh no matter what u say. I guess ur a very funny lil old lady! |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2006 : 16:38:11
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Gambia is not an 'unspoilt society'-reservation. In Gambia, I saw young people in internet-cafés, and guess what they were doing? Amongst other things, they checked dating sites, of course. Exactly the same what their peers in Europe (the Americas, Asia, Australia) are doing. As a youngster, you are curious, and love, sex etc. is ranking on top of the list of interesting things. That's normal, isn't it?
But these sites can also serve as an advertising medium for prostitution and sex tourism. A friend told me about a site from/about Senegal. Many elderly or even old men make appointments there with young Senegali women they want to meet during their holiday trips to Senegal (most of the men, my friend says, are Belgians). I hope the gambianow-site is not of this kind. |
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