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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jul 2009 : 21:39:26
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GREAT !
Fantastic just what Gambia needs a really super project to open up the country and help people to travel cheaply,and make goods available to more places,H.E. has always been keen on railways and lets face it a country without railways is an exception these days,BUT there will be people out of a job, mini bus drivers,taxi drivers,mechanics,and others,however if the railway is designed to transport workers into the capital in time to start work and then the train takes them home leaving the rest of the days travel to be taken up by minibusses and taxis OK.
Have a read of this from the D.O.
http://observer.gm/africa/gambia/article/president-jammeh-receives-railway-design
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 08 Jul 2009 21:43:48 |
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2009 : 02:01:11
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Yes that’s what Gambia really needs to do open up the country but a railway from Brikama to Banjul I don’t think will do it. To really open up the country what is needed is a decent road from Banjul to George Town. Also there is the cost effectiveness of the proposed rail scheme who is going to pay for it and what are the projected revenues will be and will they pay for the upkeep and running costs?
A railway is very costly as against road construction Tracks,Signalling,Stations,Rolling Stock,Maintenance. F
For a simple 1 track line costs about 2 Million dollars per kilometer up to something really sophisticated like the Jubilee line in London which cost 330 million dollars per kilometer. So I think the money could be better spent on roads to open up the country
Does anyone know what the costs were per kilometer for building the road from the Brickama to Banjul or the Airport?
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Edited by - snuggels on 09 Jul 2009 04:07:01 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2009 : 08:30:39
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MY CONCERNS:
Thanks for that post Toubab120, and thanks Snuggels for raising those points. I have similar concerns too. The railway appears a great idea, but every time Jammeh comes up with another grandiose project, I'm like wait a minute, do we really need this?
It is no secret by now that APRC is basically a "construction" party, and Jammeh himself is like the Ramses II of ancient Egypt; he will continue to build to his grave. As far as jammeh is concerned, success is measured in the number of things you build, even if they are not cost effective. I wonder if he ever sought the opinion of independent economists and environmentalists on this upcoming project particularly.
The history of railways in Africa is a mix bag of (initial) success and (later) failures.
In a nutshell, my concerns are these:
1. Utility versus cost- considering the Gambia's small size and population. Will optimum or maximum utility be achieved to offset the exorbitant (high) cost of construction and maintenance of this project?
Rails appears to have been more successful in Africa where they are used largely for moving goods and services between the ports and the interior as in Uganda and to some extent in Senegal. The export/import activity in the Gambia appears to be too low to engage the maximum utility of this kind of investment.
2. Compatibility- one of the legacies of colonialism in Africa is that the French and English (former) colonies genrally have incompatible rail systems. Will this project (phase two of it) overcome that obstacle and perhaps extends into Senegal and Guinea Bissau?
3. Maintenance- the hallmark of railways in Africa since the end of colonialism is decay. Cost of maintenance, in terms of finance and expertise, is high and often not available or cost-effective
4. Environmental damage- the amount of stress and damage this kind of ambitious project will have on the Gambia's fragile environment and ecology is yet to be fully assessed.
I tend to think that with good road networks around the length and breadth of the country, good passenger bus services, and good truck lines (for goods); many of Gambia's transportation needs could be adequately alleviated cost-effectively and with minimal impact on the environment.... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 09 Jul 2009 08:38:36 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2009 : 12:10:46
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
Kay.Most of what you say I would agree with but I take issue on one or two bits of your concerns,No.4 the mechanical condition of MOST of the trucks is very bad belching smoke from their exhausts,due to worn out engines or "mechanics" who have no idea of what they are doing when they "fiddle" with mechanical things just to get money.
What is most likly envisaged by the proposers is something along the lines of a tramway,rather than a railway,OK trams run on rails so I suppose you could stretch the tramway into meaning a railway.Have a look at the U tube that I found to show you what I mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0JRqmCVIKo
Thanks Toubab1020. Yes light rail makes sense, but it looks like the Gambia is talking about a railway system in two phases, I and II. Phase I is the passenger part and Phase II is the goods and services part connecting the airport and the interior of the country.
That sounds like a lot of bulldozing and pulverizing...
A good bus system and trucking lines will require something more than the 'gele gele' transportation system we have currently, I will have to agree ... |
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2009 : 12:54:59
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Just as a matter of interest the upgrade of the Weat Coast Main Line from London to Glasgow cost 20 Billion Dollars.
I agree Trams are a better alternative but I dont think they come as cheap as road construction . I myself having worked on the Manchester, Nottingham, Croyden Tramways and also the docklands light railway in London. For speed of construction and opening up the country its got to be roads
Having worked on many rail projects over the years in the UK and abroad for me one of the most impressive is the Sky Train in Bangkok.
but very costly. For the general population roads are the way to go |
Edited by - snuggels on 09 Jul 2009 13:00:49 |
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2009 : 13:59:12
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When I was in Ghana a few years ago they were building a motorway to European standards from one end of the country to the other. The employment and benefit this generated in the villages along the way was a god send during and after construction.
Just imagine the effect of a descent road from George Town to Banjul for the villages along the way for Commerce, Farmers and not forgetting tourism. It would to the benefit change Gambia forever. Not just a few civil servants traveling by train from Brikama to Banjul
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Edited by - snuggels on 09 Jul 2009 14:01:12 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2009 : 14:48:06
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| Proper trains, trams or Improved Roads ? Snuggles,your experience input is valuable, you are a person with first hand knowledge of these means of transport,my views are changing slightly having read what others have posted,one thing to remember though is which ever option you go with its all about money,that money will come from grant aid or some sort of fudged loan system,as The Gambia cannot afford to do these projects herself,this benefits western countries who are suffering from lack of orders for their products and consequent job losses,the question of providing extensive employment for local people has been ovelooked,as Snuggles points out.However to have extensive manpower working with picks and shovels to build a road cannot make economic sense as such a construction option would take years and years. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2009 : 16:55:43
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I dont think Ghana had the money to build such a massive project.
from border to border so I assume they had fianance from else where.
How it works I dont know.
What I did notice was yes many people working with picks and shovels and yes it took a long time to complete. This was 5 years ago I dont know if its even complete now. The amount of local people working on it was impressive.
I agree that Gambia needs help to fund such a scheme. But what they have got is the manpower and time. Under the supervision of a qualified road engineer they could do it on the cheap by making it compulsory for all able bodied men to spend a certain amount of time building the foundations paying them the average wage then a foreign construction company to finish it off
If Jemmeh wants to be rememered as the man who realy changed Gambia for the better is build that road |
Edited by - snuggels on 10 Jul 2009 01:12:18 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2009 : 01:02:09
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| Could you please take away the 'compulsory' part, Snuggles? |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2009 : 01:16:17
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| Thanks Snuggels ... |
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2009 : 01:27:08
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| Tis done Ok. So as I went on to say to pay the workers the national average wage to work on such a project. But if you couldnt get enough guys to take up the work. What then ummm. Give it to the army to do then it is compulsory. Not such a far fetched idea.As in our own amy the Royal Engineers Regiment who over many many years have built Airstrips Bridges and yes roads |
Edited by - snuggels on 10 Jul 2009 01:46:48 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2009 : 06:51:14
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quote:
Originally posted by snuggels
Tis done Ok. So as I went on to say to pay the workers the national average wage to work on such a project. But if you couldnt get enough guys to take up the work. What then ummm. Give it to the army to do then it is compulsory. Not such a far fetched idea.As in our own amy the Royal Engineers Regiment who over many many years have built Airstrips Bridges and yes roads
The army (as well as the "Green Boys and Girls")sounds great to me. Since they have no real job to do other than harassing civilians, it will be terrific to put them to work (provided that we are building an affordable, cost-effective, environmentally sound, light rail system- not an outragiously costly, dehumanizing, environmentally damaging white elephant). Finally they can show their true patriotism by 'putting their lives on the (railway) line' for the country.
Also I think with decent pay, there are plenty of Gambians who need a job. Instead of hauling them in buses across the country to toil free on Jammeh's 'hundreds' of farms around the country, they might be more willing to work for a decent paycheck .
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Edited by - kayjatta on 10 Jul 2009 06:58:44 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2009 : 11:12:41
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| Good bit of digging there Kay,an alternative,but not what H.E. wants I suspect, he wants a proper railway,not a mass transit system of whatever kind we find,there is only one problem,Money, where will it come from.I await further news,but probably not for some time as such projects, as Snuggles has told us, are VERY expensive. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2009 : 12:39:11
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Kayjatta
Very interesting the artical on the BRT system. But you still need to build roads to do it and I think that they only come into thier own for conjested city,s and thats not going to open up The Gambia to the benifit of the majority of Gambians at large.
All though building conventional roads is cheaper than building railways it is labour intensive and still costly but technology moves on.
A new, less expensive road building technology which can significantly reduce road construction costs by 30% or more, is based on a polymer-based adhesive that binds soils to create durable road foundations. Besides the durability of the Polymer-based roads, the technology circumvents the need for expensive excavation work and the importation of high-cost construction materials to create firm sub-surfaces. It allows road completion at a speed several times quicker and at lesser cost as compared to the conventional road building technology.
The polymer technology which was researched and developed over ten years was designed to create foundations that were both durable and flexible. A six-inch layer of the Polymer adhesive is poured onto the soil where it has the effect of migrating into and creating a binding effect. The road is then completed by pouring asphalt onto the hardened surface. The durability and flexibility of the material allows for the surface to remain particularly resistant to cracking.
I am convinced for cost effectiveness and opening up Gambia this is the way to go
But at the end of the day yes its money
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Edited by - snuggels on 10 Jul 2009 13:00:34 |
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