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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 21:21:24
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Yahya Jammeh is the president of the Gambia, I could not think any better symbol relating to Gambia. I like the picture. Beside, it is unfair him being scapegoat for anything wrong in Gambia, I felt it is fair for him to have his presence.
For multiple wives. I think it is not a good idea. I even want half/or quarter wife as that is only I can afford. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 26 Mar 2009 21:22:27 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 23:10:32
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Tamsier, I wont say you are anti islam, but I believe a very significant piece on the whole issue of marrying more than one wife as islamic law allows is being left out. Yes the Quran gave men the right to marry more than one wife, but most men forget or conveniently ignore that all rights come with responsibilities. Frankly, I believe that the most often misinterpreted and abused laws in islam is the question of marrying more than one wife. I think we can all agree that most people who marry more than one wife have no business marrying a second wife simply because the are unable to meet all the responsibilities attached to marrying multiple wives.
The overwhelming majority of people who marry more than one wife do it for reasons that have nothing to do with islam. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2009 : 00:19:01
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quote:
Yes the Quran gave men the right to marry more than one wife, but most men forget or conveniently ignore that all rights come with responsibilities.
Mansa
People like tamsier may not be anti-islam, but he or she is certainly one of the people who is seeking the every opportunity to attack on islam with a specific agenda to discredit islam.
Anyway... You said Quran gave men the right to marry. Your claim is not entirely right. It is a grey area.
Islam states 'obligations'. For example pray...You have to do it regardless.
Islam also states 'recommendations', for example 'give money to others, zakah, slaughter animal, you should do it only if you can.
There are 'permissible' acts, for example getting married.
There are things that are not encouraged, makruh, for example, eating too much something discouraged.
And finally haram. You are not allowed to do, for example adultery.
You have right to get marry, to live, to work. However, marriage with more than one wife is similar to divorce. Multiple wife is a right in christianity, judaism and hinduism, but not entirely same in Islam.
Divorce is allowed unlike christianity, however it is discouraged. Getting married with multiple wives, just like divorce something between permissible act and makruh (not encouraged). It is different from 'right'. Right is general term. Divorce and polygamy are exception.
Allah encourge you to to hajj, but if you ain't have money and health you can't do it. You are not going to prison for it.
Multiple wife is permissable but with a condition. A man must treat them equally. THat is what quran says. Also another verse-I don't remember which verse- states that men can't treat women equally. It is not haram to have more than one wife, but it is not encouraged just like divorce is not encouraged either.
So why is it allowed?
Mathematically, you would expect population of men and women to be equal. But imagine there was a war 1400 years ago and 50 percent of men in a community died. That means now for every one men two women. Or we are talking about 50 percent of married women became widow. Who are they going to take care of this women. There is no social asisstance.
So, having multiple wives was part of social reality in past.
Another reason. Let us say you have 20 men and 20 women. and they are aged from 16 to 36. Based on the social structure in general all of 20 women sexually or maturity available for marriage. It is more acceptable for 16 women to get married but this is not same for men.
All of the 20 women can get married but only men who is (let us say, 22 is the marriage age in general for men) ready to get married, so we have only 14 men available for 20 women.
The men was provider and women have depended on men. As the role of women in society and economy improve, they are more assertive and independent so polygamy became less and less.
Also Islam does give women to refuse the men with multiple wives. Or women have right to divorce if men is not fulfiling his duty. I am not sure if I can provide a reference but I think first wife needs to approve the his husband wish to get a second wife.
In Turkey we had a tradition which becaming less and less now. If a woman became a widow, that women is very old, not that women needs to live with his husband's brother. This tradition is very popular in Kurdish population who are more traditional, however, tradition is disappearing.
So, polygamy as you pointed out is abused by Muslim men. It is more common in Gambia than Bosnia or Turkey. I think the development/wealth level is the reason for that.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 28 Mar 2009 21:15:24 |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2009 : 18:17:20
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Your comment Bev to me .
Lemon time.
You are very rude and offensive to snuggels.
I don't think she has done anything to deserve this posting and think you should take it off the site.
The replies (which she has merely copied)obviously hit a raw nerve!
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BEV, Arrests of drunken British women on the rise
1 of 1Full SizeLONDON (Reuters Life!) - The number of British women arrested for being drunk and disorderly has risen by more than 50 percent in the past five years, and soared by over 1,000 percent in some areas, police figures showed on Friday.
Campaigners said the rise in arrest figures reflect the deliberate targeting of women by pubs and clubs offering cheap drinks and free entry.
Mike Craik, chief constable of Northumbria police in northern England, where such arrests rose by 48 percent to 2,101, called for action on pricing, a ban on advertising and increased regulation.
"There should also be an end to discounted drinks, such as two-for-one deals, happy hours and supermarkets selling alcohol at below cost prices," he told Channel 4 News Online.
"There should be a ban on the sale of alcopops and no advertising of alcohol. Consideration should be given to pricing which is relevant to its strength.
The figures from 38 of the 52 UK police forces were collected by the station's online team.
Of the 38 who responded, only 21 were able to provide like-for-like figures over the five-year period.
Those showed a 53 percent increase in arrests, from 3,847 in 2003/4, to 5,891 in 2007/8.
The Portman Group, a drinks industry organization which campaigns against alcohol abuse, said it takes its responsibility seriously and works within codes of conduct.
It told Channel 4 that education rather than pricing was the key issue.
(Reporting by Avril Ormsby; Editing by Steve Addison and Paul Casciato)
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There is no god but Allah |
Edited by - LEMON TIME on 28 Mar 2009 18:27:31 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2009 : 18:39:32
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| Lemon time what does that have to do with anything we are discussing? |
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black orchid
United Kingdom
74 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2009 : 18:56:08
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I think lemontime has been greatly injured concering the criticisms levelled against Gambian men, and is therefore retaliating by using the classic bantaba "tit for tat" posting.
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tamsier
United Kingdom
558 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2009 : 21:41:13
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Originally posted by Turk,
Multiple wife is permissable.. It is not haram to have more than one wife.
Thanks Turk for agreeing with me. Aren't you kind?
Gambiabev,
I agree with your posting. There is no need to result to bad language. Lemontime, I am not having a go at you, but try and chill. If you really know yourself, and secure in yourself, you should not let these statements worry you. I am sure you have nothing to worry about. Take these statements with a pinch of salt. These statements says a lot about the women who posted it than the useless men they are targetting. As I said, generally speaking, if one is not happy in their relationship, they should move on. As regards to the sexual content in some of these postings, well lets just say they were as useless if not more useless than the men they are targetting. As the women on Bantaba would back me up, every woman is different. What pleaseas sexually one woman may not please another. To know what pleases a woman and vice versa, the two involved must communicate - technique is of course always a must. If the man is shy or unable to communicate with his partner about what pleases her, then the female partner must be able to say, 'I don't like that' or 'I like it like that'. A woman or man who is unable to communicate his or her sexual desires to his or her partner seems to me either they are too shy or they do not know themselves what pleases them in bed. If they do not know what pleases them in bed, then how do they expect their man or woman to know? If they are shy, then they should address that issue. However, the women who posted these do not appear to me to be shy, and as such I questioned whether they know themselves what pleases them sexually. |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
Edited by - tamsier on 28 Mar 2009 21:50:46 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2009 : 22:03:29
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It is permissible to have mistress. How come you are NOT critical on that? It is not forbidden to have unlimited number of mistress either. Noooooo one is going to prison for it. Having multiple wife is better than having mistress, at least the second wife has right within legal marriage institution, mistress has nothing.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
558 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2009 : 22:11:10
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Turk
I disagree with both. Both affect the children and if it affect the children, then they are wrong. This is my opinion, it is what I have been brougth up to believe. No disrespect to anyone who practices polygamy. |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 00:25:07
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Is their nothing wrong with generalizing statements about/of Gambian men? Could it not be provocative to accuse all Gambian men of what one or some Gambian men do or are?
What I find interesting with this post is that it uncovers a lot of grievances derived from elsewhere in this forum. Complains about how this forum has been and is, Gambian men, lazy tea-drinking men, Gambian men are polygamous, Gambians men have superiority complex. What all these gossips, statements or complains have in common is that they are all generalizing from personal or individual experiences.
Sweeping generalizing and culturalizing statements are meant to be and are provocative despite by whom, or where, or subject, therefore to minimize heated modes or temperamental discussion demands mindfulness. Hence words are like calves, when released they run to their mother.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 01:25:56
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Yeah, but you quickly blame islam for having multiple partners. But that is not unique to Islam. I travelled the other part of Africa and seen there are polygamy exist in traditional african religion as well. Multiple partners are allowed in christianity, judaism or your indegenous african tradition. Islam did not make the situation any different. Today, in west, having multiple partners still common as mistress. So at least Gambian Muslim men doing this officially, not under the carpet.
In general, I will repeat. The percentage of Gambian men who is worth is not any different from any other ethnicity, race, religion.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 03:27:36
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TAMSIER
"What pleaseas sexually one woman may not please another. To know what pleases a woman and vice versa, the two involved must communicate - technique is of course always a must"
I totaly agree technique is so important. Its not the size of ya boat its the motion in the ocean so to speak.
So the ladies who criticized there men as bad lovers at the start of this thread had bad lovers. As I said befor theres good and bad everywhere |
Edited by - snuggels on 29 Mar 2009 03:31:04 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 08:23:22
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Turk I think you are mixing up what has become socially acceptable in the West and what is Christian practice. The majority of Christians around the world see monogamy as the ideal. Being faithful to one partner is very important for both men and women.
Of course this is an ideal which many people fall short of. An affair is considered grounds for divorce.
Many people in the West have affairs, many people in the West may have a Mistress. Different countries have different social rules. In France a Mistress is more socially acceptable, but in Uk it still isnt to most people.
In the UK alot of people will have spells of time where they 'play the field', but for the MAJORITY the ideal is still to be faithful to one loving partner and that is what most people are looking for.
If a women marries a man who has affairs she is free to divorce him.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 09:12:55
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quote:
Turk I think you are mixing up what has become socially acceptable in the West and what is Christian practice. The majority of Christians around the world see monogamy as the ideal. Being faithful to one partner is very important for both men and women.
Bev. I am not mixing up. Christianity as a religion accepts polygamy. It is part of Christianity as a practise. At the same time, most people in the west is not christian. They are secular. They may be 'christian' as part of statistical data, but reality they are not. I did not mix it up. I am dealing polygamy in terms of Christain practise and west seperately. Christianity, as a religion accepts, support polygamy. Monogamy is ideal in terms of marriage in west (not in Christianity). I wanted to oppose the idea: the impression that polygamy is only in Islam. Which is not true, polygamy historically within all religion. It was part of society in all societies. Sometime, Islam is being singled out as treated as scape-goat.
In west, there is no official polygamy, but even modern, secular, western society, having multiple partners happening. A man can have a wife and mistress. It is not illegal. And you must be in another planet as UK, having mistress is happening. You must come out your little village in Gambia and discover, spend time in the other parts of England bev :)
Bev, in Islam too, the ideal is still to be faithful to one loving partner too. And that is most people are looking for. What percentage of Bosnian, Albanian, Turkish, Bulgarian, Turkmen, Xinjian, Malaysian muslims have multiple wives. And even in Gambia where the polygamy is more common compare to other part of Islamic world, how often do you see a Gambian men with more wifes. Not very frequent. In bantaba, sometime we tend to make things little different than reality when we object the islam. Most Gambian family I know do not have multiple wives. Believe me, muslims are not marsians. Think about it, Islam is the religion that allows divorce unlike Christianity (Again I am talking about religion).
Sugar dadies, married men having another partner is universal. Men do not do this because of Islam. Same thing happen in Jamaica too. Or here in oceania where there is no islamic influence at all.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 29 Mar 2009 09:18:24 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 10:22:43
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Modern day christianity doesnt support polygamy.
It is not illegal to have a mistress, but in most cases if the wife finds out it will be the end of the marriage. It is considered reason for divorce.
Christianity doesnt like divorce, but allows it if there are irreconciable differences.
In Gambia at the coast perhaps most men only have one wife, but in the villages polygamy is still common place. In Tendaba for example, many of the fishermen have several wives and many children. They are very poor and if they fully understoof Islam should only have had one wife and a few children, because they cant provide for them all. |
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