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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 18:26:49
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I found this disturbing report in The Point,I do not understand that due to disagreement between two groups of Muslims a Mosque is shut by the Police,please explain.Islam is a peaceful religion.
http://thepoint.gm/africa/gambia/article/2008/8/22/numuyel-mosque-closed
Snippet:
The mosque is said to have been closed down because of a dispute between the village elders and a supposed group of worshippers claiming to be Sunnis over the construction of an Arabic school on the outskirts of Numuyel by the group.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 18:55:42
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Hi 2bab,
Just for disclosure, I am just a regular person, not a scholar as per your request.
Sunnis simply are people who strictly follow the Quran and traditions of the Prophet. They can be very uncompromising (not at all flexible) to many local traditional values incorporated into religion Islam. Locally, there are many other sects. According to the Prophet (PBUH), innovations are a disbelief. The sunnis have this feeling about the other sects. The other sects also holds that the sunnis are extreme in deeds and regard them as inferior and lacking proper islamic knowledge.
Thanks,
are you a muslim too? If so what do you subscribe to?
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 20:15:12
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Hi Dalton 1.
That explaination from a "regular person" as you title yourself is clear and concise,I am not A Muslim .I follow no specific religion I believe that there is only one God,and that God is all powerful,I am in no way qualified to talk or discuss ANY Religion and would no presume to do so, I believe that each person has the right to believe in who or what they want and God gives them that freedom. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 00:09:43
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Dalton 1 please forgive my ignorance, but does this mean that the Sunnis and the other Sects (is that the right term??) are unable to use or agree to use the mosque together?
I do not understand why the police were involved was it a dispute over whose right it was to use the mosque? |
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kaanibaa
United Kingdom
1169 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 01:02:16
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| As another secular fellow , I can explain but cast your eyes to a similar scenario also in the provinces ; to wit Gambisara where there was a dispute between two separate sects and the state intervened and got the smaller group/sect arrested and detained at Janjangbureh for a long time.Reports were that it was Sanna Sabally who arrested them and they stayed long under that detention order .It seems that with the advent of the new regime religious intolerance is becoming a new phenomenon. I knew of the appearance of the Ahmadiyya movement in the early 60s and they even though were suspected to be un-Islamic ,allowed to flourish under Sir farimang and Dawda Jawara.Under Jammeh however they had a de facto marching orders; which culminated in the departure of the resident representative of the khalifa in the Gambia and who is now replaced by a Gambian in the person of Baaba Trawally a customs officer . Police intervention is not unusual in the event of a dispute between worshipers at a mosque that is for maintenance of peace. Certainly some sects of moslems do not accept innovations in the methods of prayer and such matters can be so contentious and cause serious disputes between them and those they perceive as innovators and so not practicing the religion properly.Such a situation then would lead to tensions between the two groups and if left unchecked it could lead to serious problems even fights .There was another incident around Kaur area where a certain individual was alleged to be misleading his followers whom he told he was actually GOD etc. He too was arrested and detained at the NIA.In my honest opinion Police can intervene in matters that they feel could lead to a breakdown of the common peace and the closure of a mosque as they did in the said report could well be in that kind of situation. How ever ,the line is thin in the business of which group is allowed to open a mosque and which is to be stopped.In a democratic Setting such a dispute would be left to the parties to settle the matter at the courts but then there you go friends it is The Gambia no problems at all |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 01:23:52
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A very short from your posting above kaanibaa.
"there you go friends it is The Gambia no problems at all"
Thank you kaanibaa for an interesting run down in the history of disputes that have occoured before. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 03:52:49
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Hi princess,
excuse my ignorant self, also for not debating across lines with you and many others. thanks to kaniibaa for the short explanation.
But this problem about the mosque will be just like a problem between us online over disagreements.
rgs,
Dalton |
"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 07:17:33
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| I thought most Gambians are in fact Sunnis, so why would anyone object to the opening of a Sunni mosque? What is the identity of the people in conflict with the so-called Sunnis? I also do not understand what the mosque has to do with the arabic/Islamic school that would warrant its closure? |
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Momodou
Denmark
11828 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 08:34:34
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
I thought most Gambians are in fact Sunnis, so why would anyone object to the opening of a Sunni mosque?.....
Thats what my thought is also. Most Gambians are believed to be Sunnis.
I thought the author of the article had mistaken Shias to Sunnis when I read the article. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 15:28:15
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I believe there is stiil more to the story that we need to know. However, I will try to do a little analysis based on my own experience, not necessarily a scholarly one...
There is this source of tension between the new generation muslims who are mainly young and reform minded and the traditionalists in Gambia today. The new generation muslims are trying to usher in an austere and more accurate form of islam in Gambia. This is almost always met with fierce resistance and in some cases accusations of bringing in a new religion.
Among this generation are scholars who received islamic education mainly from islamic universities in Saudi Arabia, Egypt etc. On the other hand, almost always the old guard are your typical scholars who received islamic education from local or no university setting institutions closer to home. In a nutshell, it is a battle between the university graduate scholar and a locally trained one.
So what the opening of a new mosque does is that it takes away worshippers, mainly young people away from the central mosque to this new mosque and they are probably trying to prevent that from happening. If you are familiar with the situation in Talinding Kunjang you will probably get the point I am trying to make. There is an islamic school in talinding that has a mosque and attracts a lot of young worshippers especially during friday prayers and taraweeh in Ramadhan. Whereas, if you visist the central mosque in Talinding you will see that relative to the mosque at the school they have fewer young people.
In otherwords, it is probably a battle over hearts and minds of younger generation muslims... |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 15:35:49
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Mansasulu,
Your posting is very interesting,thanks. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 18:48:30
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Gentlemen I appreciate your explanations and tolerance please bear with me as I try to gain some understanding and ask some more questions. 
I suppose for me I am shocked that there would be such disquiet within the religion. Naively, I was unaware of a difference of belief.
I am always sadden to hear of criticism within the foundations of whatever religion (be it Judaism , Christianity, Catholicism etc) of how to practice their beliefs 'the right way'.Surely if your all reading from the same book whether you interpret it in identical ways is irrelevant, it must hold different meanings for different people surely  or an I being naive
While I agree with you kannibaa that in some instances police intervention is probably the best outcome in some situations. Isn't it sad, that this is the way, for a place of worship ,where at least (unless I have misunderstood ) all parties belong to the same religious order.
Dalton1 you are far from ignorant but i'm puzzled by your closing comment does this mean that disputes within the Mosque's are not as uncommon as I was thinking
Kayjatta What is the difference between a sunni mosque and another mosque By this I mean is it different in terms of the buildings structure or is it just the beliefs of the worshippers
Mansasulu, am I right in understanding from your post that as Universities enable their scholars to be critical thinkers that this may be where the problem lies |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 21:37:56
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HP, I believe the root of the problem is the resistance to change even if it is for the better. I think you are spot on as far universities enabling people to be critical thinking instead of just following the norm.
When islam came to west africa it was through traders so the people learnt islam from them by mostly by watching and following what they did. So it was inevitable that the islam they brought with them got muddled with some of the prevailing customs and ways of the day. This was what was mostly passed down to later generations.
What is hapenning now is that scholars are going to universities and learning the complete and austere form of islam and when they attempt to put them in practice, ineveitably the resistance comes in.
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"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 22:55:38
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Thank you mansaaulu, that makes perfect sense.
Unfortunately change always comes up to resistance when people feel they are not in control of whatever it is,that is undergoing the transformation. |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 23:49:59
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Actually, thanks to both bro Kay and Mawdo Momodou for the rectification. If all are sunnis, within them are sects like the wahabis, tijania, et ceteraa...it could be confusing a little here, and excuse my shortness in explanation. And hopefully, the story will be refuted.
Bro Mansa's explanation resonates with me truly. Let us assume that the story is right as reported, then Mansa got the argument, plus the little rejoinder of mine, because the strict sunnis like those at the MARKESH don't like to incorporate local traditions with the deen. I witnessed instances where they were asked to live certain masjids, including threats.
Let us assume that the story should have said sunni vs. Shia, the only difference would be, thus:
The shia recognize Ali as a last prophet (RA)
The Sunni recognize Muhammad (SAW)
During call to prayer (adaan):
the shia will ...Ali rasurul lah, while
the sunni will say...Muhammad rasurul lah
Over the dispute:
Princess, may be I was sort in my explanation. I only meant to say even the teeth and the tongue clash sometimes, though ever closest friends in history. [African tradition.]
I am greatly enlightened on this myself...and i hope the problem get resolved soon.
rgds.
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 07:20:24
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quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
I believe there is stiil more to the story that we need to know. However, I will try to do a little analysis based on my own experience, not necessarily a scholarly one...
There is this source of tension between the new generation muslims who are mainly young and reform minded and the traditionalists in Gambia today. The new generation muslims are trying to usher in an austere and more accurate form of islam in Gambia. This is almost always met with fierce resistance and in some cases accusations of bringing in a new religion.
Among this generation are scholars who received islamic education mainly from islamic universities in Saudi Arabia, Egypt etc. On the other hand, almost always the old guard are your typical scholars who received islamic education from local or no university setting institutions closer to home. In a nutshell, it is a battle between the university graduate scholar and a locally trained one.
So what the opening of a new mosque does is that it takes away worshippers, mainly young people away from the central mosque to this new mosque and they are probably trying to prevent that from happening. If you are familiar with the situation in Talinding Kunjang you will probably get the point I am trying to make. There is an islamic school in talinding that has a mosque and attracts a lot of young worshippers especially during friday prayers and taraweeh in Ramadhan. Whereas, if you visist the central mosque in Talinding you will see that relative to the mosque at the school they have fewer young people.
In otherwords, it is probably a battle over hearts and minds of younger generation muslims...
Very good explanation Mansasulu. I do not know the details of this story, because The Point's report is very scanty (hardly worthy of a newspaper of that status).
You are right that the young Islamist scholars (or students)who studied in the Middle East tend to be more conservative and reform-minded than the older traditionalist muslims in the Gambia. I do think many of those who studied in Egypt and Syria for example tend to be more moderate and liberal than those who received the more conservative Saudi Arabian and pakistani type education.
During my stay in the Gambia, my observation is that while there is an observable ideological difference between these scholars they still agree on many issues of day-to-day relevance to the practice of the faith.
There were another group of Gambian's who are less educated in Islam, but because of their exposure to the doctrine of militant Islam from overseas insist on a return to 15th century islam. These are the one's who often clash with others over the practice and role of faith. I cannot say for sure if those are the kind of people involved in this conflict, but as we discuss this issue now it is worthwhile to consider that aspect also.
I have a friend who embraced this form of militant islam, and would take upon himself to preach at the mosque every time as soon as the Imam finish the prayer. A lot of his lengthy preaching offends people because he attacks many of their long-held practices.
Do you think this particular group might also be a factor in conflicts like this? |
Edited by - kayjatta on 26 Aug 2008 07:25:46 |
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