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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Apr 2008 : 18:21:46
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| lurker, the topic is an open-ended discussion just like many topics here in bantaba. i do not defend the indefensible either. i am no mugabe suppoter. all i am alluding to is that his crimes if any,need to be put in perspective. the british likewise murdered 5000 kenyans some years ago. if mugabe kills as you said, he is guilty like any killer . i have yet to see any report linking him to such crimes. thanks any way. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2008 : 18:29:15
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appreciate your point of view. as a reference, check out the matabele land massacres of the early 80's , when mugabe's shona troops, trianed by the korean fifth brigade, massacred 30000 ndebele civilians to ensure his tribe's prominence in the zimbabwean power struggle. plenty of evidence. big murderer.
peace |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2008 : 19:52:48
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Njuks
One thing i like the United States for, is that they stand for their interest and guard it dearly. In Africa, their is no sense of national interest but individual advancement. We are so rich yet so miserably poor.
Like Bob said ".. in the abundnace of water, the fool is thirsty...". From the Niger Delta comes one of the best petroleum in the world. Yet, even basic pit latrines or a descent school system eludes the people who live in the area surrounded by oil pipelines whilst politicians are being transformed into round bellied Orangutans. Unfortunately, the sytem created far too many chiefs whilst the masses could only hope of one square meal.
And the sad part is, any one brave enough to speak for justice, must be put to death or sent to the crocodiles. As Amin said ".. people must love their leaders...". Love is earned not forced.
We as a people, have ranked highest in the list of world refugees. Its so sad that to survive, we have to be protected from ourselves. Sierra Leone is a far cry from whence it was named " the Roaring Mountain", rich is diamonds and gold yet for many, their fingers have been cut off and denied the opportunity to ever put on a ring. Who knows. It may be an attempt to reduce local demand for gold and diamond so that politicians could continue to export and open offshore accounts. Conditions were so bad in Sierra Leone, that in hospitals, Doctors used cutlasses for surgeries. Meanwhile, in the homes of politicians, fake water tanks were erected filled with foreign currencies to avoid any paper trails or elude the banking system.
I watched the documentray ten years ago.
In the Gambia, we have so much fish, yet to have a sardine, it needs to be imported from spain. This is the paradox of Africa.
Liberia produces vast amounts of Rubber, yet to replace a tire, it must be imported. The inter-continenetal African Govt. that Nkrumah was deposed for, is thew only solution if that contnent is to see any progress.
I know people will give far too many reasons why it cant work; something i knew all to well as being part of our DNA, but i will add that the difference between possible and impossible, is a measure of one's willingness and commitment. It can be done.
Like the mandinka say: NIYEH LA WULO FAA WANDI WULO YEH, FELEH BAYE LOONG, EBUKA SUBO SOTO. (If you kill your dog for someone else's dog's sake, on the day of the hunt, you will not have meat.)
I rest my case. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2008 : 20:31:04
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Kondorong, you are on spot.
Good for digest.
The bottomline is personal greed. In many countries, the primary motive for ordinary people choosing politics as an option is just for the get-rich-quick benefit. When they steal and become filthy rich, some of them as in the case of Gambia's Yaya Jammeh beat all barriers of normalcy to claim he is supported by devils. We all heard about the fortune of good handshake with a KONODRONG by the hill side. Now any rogue (head) of state dares to claim it was an encounter with DEMONS that opens the chest of hard currencies preferably called Allah's World Bank!!??
Perhaps a way out of this for most countries is to place solid economic and skill barriers for anyone seeking to step on high political platforms. It is worth considering to place the economic net worth of a person seeking public office in the political sphere. Those who fail to demonstrate required standards could easily excuse themselves before the race begins. Someone may be tempted to wonder what happens with highly skilled and experienced elites? If anyone serves with good experience and proves capable, that is good start-up point. Good savings from long years of expert occupations is an asset to bank on. Ready to serve your people with such experience, knowledge and financial backing is healthy enough.
Our current politicians fall below certain standards. These politicians play so greedy that they don't simply bother about the job. That is why after failing to do the real job, some of them turn around with mystic adventures as in our own case. This is not a matter of dragging the long tail of any African president. Only a matter of observation. |
Karamba |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2008 : 20:55:38
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Karamba
My heart aches when i look around the continent. I have bee fortunate enough to see many countries in Africa, but like the Fulani say: MBURU FOFF KO FORINGE (All breads are made of flour), the problem in any one country is the same all over.
Mystical powers in in raditional african systems of government are not new. It was the most important criteria for office. We have heard of the mysticism of Sundiata Keita, Samory Touray, Mama Jankay Wally, Ngaling Sonko (Barrla Bang Naa), Osei Tutu and the Golden Ashante Stool.
The most successful non-formal economic sector in the Gambia since 1994, has been that of consulting oracles and sooth sayers. Those fortune tellers, who can promise you the heavens right here in Yoro Bawol, even though every thing points to not only improbability but impossibility; yet we continue to dream with our eyes wide open. Such a state of affairs clearly feeds on a mystical redeemer to soften the souls and be hopeful once more. Its good to dream, but its dangerous to dream with eyes wide open.
May be, and may be, we were never supposed to..... |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2008 : 21:13:16
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well. people. the press are being surrounded in harare hotels, the mdc big boys are going into hiding. mugabe is true to form. i fear that he is now going into overdrive and making sure that the press cannot see what this man is about to unleash onto his country. silly me for thinking that he might actually know when it was time to go away. my thoughts go out to those about to die.
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2008 : 21:34:37
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The longs hands of sycophancy can reach far stretching limits. In the case of Zimbabwe, Mugabe remains a victim of sycophancy. They inflated his ego to stand tall when he knows fully, he is in real sens so short. |
Karamba |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 09:52:35
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| second round election in zimbabwe. the opposition were also true to form, they should have waited for the official result instead of pre-empting the electoral commission. many media organisations aren't allowed in the country so they were breaking the law. information is the must expensive peice of materail any can have. the media create a climate of unrest and then agitate the people. it is good that the zimbabweans refused to be lured into national disaray. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 10:34:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
the media create a climate of unrest and then agitate the people. it is good that the zimbabweans refused to be lured into national disaray.
you know last week some days before the election, every Western news org. like the BBC, CNN etc were showing how Mugabe planned to rig the election. they were showing vast tracks of empty land in rural Zimbabwe where 10s of 1000s of ghost voters have been registers are a strategy to rig the election.
Then, what happened, the opposition won those same 'ghost' votes. but then if the opposition wins the elections are ''Free and Fair''.
that was the last time the BBC reported about an ''Unfair election''.
its the same lies as before the Iraq invasion.
we live in dangerous times, really. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 12:28:53
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I think Mugabe will still be remembered as a hero. He will go down into history as the man who liberated Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) from colonialism ( and that word mean a lot to those people who have witnessed or lived under it); that is certainly a title no election or condemnation can take away from him. And I suspect, after all the troubles of today, many Zimbabweans will look back on Mugabe with some sense of gratitude and nostalgia. I believe any assessment or evaluation of Mugabe must take consideration of Mugabe as a freedom fighter and a gorrilla leader. The attitute and temperament that was and is necessary in a gorrilla leader cannot be the same for a modern day democratic leader.
Having said that, I think Mugabe should now go. He should have gone some time ago. I generally have an aversion to dictators and long-term presidents. Because of that and many other reasons, he should go. Zimbabwe would not be able to move forward with Mugabe clinging to power.
However, even after the departure of Robert Mugabe, the issue of land in Zimbabwe will remain problematic for the new leaders. Should they return the repossessed land to their previous white owners? Should they leave things as they are? Those are important questions that the new leaders will have to grapple with urgently.
Finally, I will have to say that the events in Zimbabwe and not long ago in Kenya over election dispute that eventually lead to the submission of the incumbents who are strongly bent on retaining power,appears to indicate the beginning of a wind of change that could spread across continental Africa. The support of the international press and groups as well as pre-election internal polling are helpful in spotting signs of electoral mis-conduct. I hope the opposition (and of course the APRC regime) in the Gambia are learning lessons from these events in East and Southern Africa.
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Edited by - kayjatta on 04 Apr 2008 12:31:14 |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 20:21:19
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The eye sees, the spirit understands.
I believe the African problem is the so called "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" The hungry for power-vitally is one. and other is sharp greediness, not mention their carelessness of policy/Mismanagement.
the empty eternal promise with unreasonable policy machination belong to the past. as saying goes" A camel does not make itself merry over the embossment of another".
(the lost of the orientation)
staying too long in policy or luxury will not make you see as when one ware face, Been self rooted on the Holy chair will be the next and the finally level.
The bad penetrates unnoticed like a needle pass and becomes nevertheless large like an oak. Our innovations is not political differently than here in the west,not even in condition. Just the changes most took its course even if it becomes uncomfortable.
Errors are like mountains, one stand on the summit of their own and talk about those of the other one, This don't help us forward. |
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buba
57 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 22:07:43
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I have never witnessed such interest in an African election on the part of Britain as they are showing towards Zimbabwe's. Britain is using allege human rights abuse as a front to do their dirty tricks. Remember that Britain was the very nation that reneged on the Lacaster House agreement that facilitated Zimbabwe's independence in 1980 by failing to help end land inequality whereby 4000 white farmers occupied 96% of productive agricultural land.
When Mugabe got fed up waiting, he went it alone and seized most of these farms for re-distribution. This led to many of white Zimbabweans leaving for Britain (their ancestoral home)where, they have since been pressuring the government to act. First thing they did was to launch a negative media campaign, followed by their open support for the opposition MDC party, followed by stripping Mr. Mugabe off his honorary doctorate degree granted by Edinburgh University, followed by economic sabotage, followed by inciting the military to withdraw their loyalty to the regime (which did not succeed),etc,etc,
Mugabe is no angel, but Britain is not fighting for an average indigeneous African Zimbabwean, forget it, they are not!
This reminds me of South Africa. They too are sitting on a time bomb of land inequality. I was in Johanesburg in 2001 and the little knowledge i gained with regards to land issue is not impressive at all. Now on the face of things, South Africa is supposed to be a matured nation politically because people have forgiven one another for wrongs committed during periods of darkness...land issue is yet to be fully discussed; but this wait wait wait policy will not last forever. |
Edited by - buba on 04 Apr 2008 23:57:21 |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 22:16:50
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well. it is all over now. democracy loses. you have to hand it to mugabe. he is very very good at what he does.
the MDc cannot riot now as they will be accused of undemocratic behaviour by the zanu-pf- and the outside world.amazing!,
the znau-pf already acknowledge a run-off, even though the results have not been released! - explain that one.
the zanu pf boys are trying to overturn 16 results that mdc won. they only need to reverse a few to get back the parliamentary majority. and they control the judiciary. you could not make this up.
they accuse the mdc of bribing the electoral commission - which mugabe appointed himself. what a joke.
the pres result is supposed to be released within 6 days legally. it was not. thus mugabes presidency now expires. he then exerts presidential special rules, gets himself in as temporary pres with emergency rule. they beat the **** out of all those who dared to vote mdc. they extend the interim between the run-off and now to 3 months. this gives them time to intimidate all the mdc rural voters. they bribe, cajole , beat, torture and humiliate their opposition.
they win the run-off at a canter. it is all over now. democracy failed.
the mdc have to wait til the run-off formality is announced. then they may very well riot. but the army amd police will ready. blood may flow.
the mdc is finished. democracy is finished. zimbabwe is finished.
those of you who think mugabe is a hero to be proud of should be ashamed.
africa is buggered. |
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buba
57 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 23:54:16
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MDC was the first to claim victory, not ZANU-PF even before the results were released. Lurker i think you need to do the explanation.
Second, i do not get what you mean by saying: MDC, DEMOCRACY and ZIMBABWE are finished. MDC are not disputing their parliamentary performance. Now i get it, it is only fair when they win...shame is on people who use shameful words. |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 09:33:28
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buba, it is simple. the polling stations put up the results on their walls. it is a simple ,matter to add up the figures and work out the percentages. that is what the mdc did and this is whjat they used to claim the victory.besides, did you ever really think that zzanupf would allow themselves to lose|? they never have in the past.if the mdc could not win with this election, then how can they ever? oh, and of course iw hoped they would win. i also hoped that democracy would prevail, but it seems not to have again.
furthermore, is saturday and the results were legally supposed to have been released yesterday and were not. how can mugabe be saying he will contest a run-off? there are no results.
he is going to let his presidency expire and then evoke emergency powers, i fear.
i also not ethat the war veterans have once again been deployed to go around shouting and intimidating.
has anyone noticed that they are all quite young?
if they had been fighting until 1980 , they would now be at least 46 or 47, and more likely 50. yet
these particular hoodlums seem to be in their 20's and 30'S. PAID THUGS. |
Edited by - lurker on 05 Apr 2008 09:38:31 |
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