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Mr.Justice
Gambia
51 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 15:01:44
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Karamba-i think its a disgrace that you associate yourself with JFK.JFK was a genocidal killer.He was a mass murderer.He was not better than Yahya Jammeh,despite the fact that they are all killers and rapist.JFK have perpetrated the worst crimes against the vietnames before he was shot.He have waged criminal operations against the people of Cuba.Karamba, if you subcribe to the criminal operation of this man, then i wonder where you stand in the stuggle, against Yahya Jammeh, criminal government.Please i want to know
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 16:46:33
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“Let him that has no sin throw the first stone”
When Kennedy took office in January 1961-----he appointed unprecedented numbers of blacks to high level positions in the administration, strengthened the Civil Rights Commission, put Vice President Lyndon Johnson in charge of the President's Committee on Equal Employment Opportunity. And the attorney General Robert Kennedy focused on voting rights, initiating five times the number of suits brought during the previous administration.
The Bay of Pigs
The inversion of Cuba is not a JFK political vision but an American worldview at the time.
During the period between the election and his inauguration, JFK was briefed on a CIA plan developed within the Eisenhower Administration to train Cuban exiles for an invasion of their homeland.
Vietnam
Towards the end of his life, Kennedy wrestled with the need to decide the future of the United States’ commitment in Vietnam. Whether or not Kennedy would have increased military involvement in Vietnam or negotiated a withdrawal of military personnel still remains hotly debated among historians and officials who served in the administrations of President Kennedy and President Lyndon B. Johnson.
No human is infallible, including JFK.
People don’t associate with the mistakes of a hero or a great man but great visions and aspirations.
Karamba, are you associating yourself with JFK´s Vietnam and The Bay of Pigs or his great statesmanship that envisioned the unconditional right of mankind?
My intention is not to debate “Karamaba” but to set the record straight |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Mr.Justice
Gambia
51 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 20:24:20
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Janko, you have missed the point,and i urged you to make a research about JFK legacy.Yes the Americans can say that Kennedy was a great man, a great statesman.They have that right cause in their eyes...Kennedy was great.He In was inaugurated on 20th January, 1961,On April 14, 1961, B-26 planes began bombing Cuba's airfields, on the orders of Kennedy.In the first speech he made to the American public as their President, Kennedy made it clear that he intended to continue Eisenhower's policy of supporting the South Vietnamese government of Ngo Dinh Diem.He argued that if South Vietnam became a communist state, the whole of the non-communist world would be at risk. Kennedy went on to argue: "No other challenge is more deserving of our effort and energy... Our security may be lost piece by piece, country by country." Under his leadership, America would be willing to: "pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and success of liberty.".Here is my arguement.Was Kennedy justified to bomb innocent vietnamese people for that matter?If Kennedy continued policy of mass murder was for the security of the United states, do you think, USA could have withdrawn from Vietnam?So is claim, that the war in vietnam was for the sake of securing american, was based on lies and propaganda.Infact the war in Vietnam was not wage on securing America or the American people.The war was a criminal war against defendless people.And kennedy and his Government was guilty of the criminal act.Janko, you can`t tell me Kennedy was not guilty for following a criminal policy of his predecessor.You can`t tell me Kennedy was not guilty of killing Cuban womens, children and babies.On the civil rights issue:Is this not the same Kennedy who troops to Alabama, when the blacks revolted against the church bombing,where 4 little girls where murdered?Appointing blacks into key positions doesn`t makes sense.Didn`t Bush appoints 2 blacks as secretary of state?Yes he did.And he did it for a purpose.Just to widen your scope in kennedy crimes against humanity, i will refer you to return:"Hegemony and Survival" a book written by a well respected American scholar called NOAM CHOAMSKY.I think the president of Venezula recomended the book last year during his speech at the UN last year.I am previllage to get hold of the book.Yes, if Americans see Kennedy as a saint,i will not blame them.Yes he did a lot for the American people, by promoting nationalist feeling in them.But the vietnamese and the Cubans will only see kennedy as a criminal and a genocidal killer.I also see Kennedy,as a criminal no matter what, cause i believe in the liberty of all people, justice and hope for all people, no matter what your religion, colour, creed, race is.
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 01:34:22
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Mr.Justice
“Let him that has no sin throw the first stone”
I intend not to get into a debate about the legacy of JFK, as Karamba said, I would let the Americans do that assessment, my point is, No human is infallible and that People associate with good sides of heroes, great visions, aspirations and ideologies. (communism, socialism, capitalism, democracy and so fort.)
The president of Venezuela is a believer in socialist idealism but not embracing the evil did of Stalinism; he takes the good creative aspect of socialism and renounces its historical shortcomings and mistakes.
My focus is Gambia; time does not allow me to embark on a JFK-legacy research. However, you can do that if you so wish. My only recommendation is be mindful of the ethics of research.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Mr.Justice
Gambia
51 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 11:26:39
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| Janko, you can´t embrace a mass murderer and try to fight another mass slaughterer.That is double standard.The ideologies of JFK towards the so-called third world was criminal.What was Kennedy vision or aspirations for the poor rice farmers, poor rice eaters of vietnam?Offcourse misery and death.Janko, you you want to justify Kennedys war crimes by saying"No Human is Infallible",so where does that leave Yahya Jammeh, our crime president?Are you telling me that Yahya Jammeh should not be accounted, for the crimes he did, cause of Human Infallibility?I dont blame karamba for not responding,maybe he innocently doesnt know how evil Kennedy was.No,the Kennedy assessment should not be left with the Americans, cause his rule affected millions of people outside of the United states.Janko my question is that, how can you defend a legacy of a person, you know nothing about?Tell me! |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 12:42:55
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I agree that Kennedy was a very dubious politician, and I always wondered why you, Karamba, chose him as your avatar. Okay, Nixon, Reagan, almost all Republican presidents were worse, and G.W.Bush is absolutely out of the question, but it is long proven that the JFK the US propaganda created, the radiant freedom hero, is a fake. Besides starting the Vietnam war and other lovely things, he was said to have connections to the mafia.
Mr.Justice, thanks that you mention Noam Chomsky. I can only recommend to read his books. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 13:14:20
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Mr.Justice
"Let him that has no sin throw the first stone"
I am not defending anybody, and no have I said a thing about anybody. You dislike Karambas association with JFK as if he likes everything that short-lived man did. That is what I responded to, that has nothing to do with what my personal stance is about JFK or Jamméh.
The issue is, as you put it; why Karamba associates to JFK not who is Yaya and what his achievements are, as you very well know there are topics dealing with that herein. If you want my opinion on other issues, start a discussion on/about them.
Do not build a mountain out of a termite hill.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 17:36:46
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Janko,
I'd rather you reserve the thoughts for more appropriate ISSUES. On this matter of who Kennedy was, what he did and how Americans value him, has no bearing on what Gambians face under Jammeh. Mr Justice, you almost scored yourself a case of misplaced knowledge. You claim knowing so much about Kennnedy. Good enough. Better you raise a topic on that and share your vast knowledge. No crime in that at all. Me choosing the picture of Kennedy is based on personal desire for which I feel very free in doing. Kennedy being a hero or criminal has no material bearing on my choice and I have no reason to rescind that. Not responding to your demands does not imply lack of information about Kennedy on my part. It is not just urgent. It is just not what I prefer allocating time and energy on for now. I guess there are abundance of people on this forum who may want to benefit from your bank of knowledge on Kennedy. The generous offer to share is good show of kindness on your part. For me, my concern is about Gambia in these trying times and on that premise, I stay focused on issues about Gambia. If there is one answer to all those who wonder why the picture of Kennedy not Jammeh, Hitler, Saddam, or Edi Amin, it is a matter of choice. Does that help? Mr Justice, I have described your posting as a case of misplaced knowledge for good reasons. If only you think about it fairly, you will have no wonder how that suits your case. Janko, for one more time, I implore on you to reserve the brain energy on issues that help us all to recover Gambia from 13 years of mischief. |
Karamba |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 22:08:10
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Karamba, with all due respect to your right to keep quiet, do us a favor and explain why you have high regards for J.F. Kennedy. Mr. Justice's question is a legitimate question that perhaps deserves an honest answer. We need to learn to answer questions without malice and not ignore them, that is a good culture we can all learn today...
I once ask Mbay a similar question, he decided to brush it aside. Mbay's case was interesting to me because, he seems to be a very religious man, so for him to associate himself with Karl Marx (a man who spent the best part of his life condemning religious philosophy) was interesting to me.
I personally has very high regards for Kennedy, most Americans do, and most people in the world do. My regards for Kennedy has to do with the role he played in the improvement of race relations in America at a very difficult time in American society, and he ultimately paid the price for it.
I do not entirely agree with Mr.Justice concerning his theories of Kennedy's role in U.S. foreign policy towards Cuba and Vietnam, but I would like to see you find time and answer his question please...
I hope this gives Mbay also an opportunity to answer my question...
Thanks fellows. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 22:56:39
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Kay,
There is no harm in the pursuit to determine why I choose Kennedy. I have done so out of passion. I am touched by the manner he died. For me assassination is not an option. Not even for the brutal creature Yahya Jammeh will I ever consider the punishment of having his life terminated by bullet. In the way I perceive the assassination of Ghandi or Sankara is same way with Kennedy. You may ask another question; but why Kennedy when many had their lives snatched away by the bullet. It goes to the other level. Kennedy's widow later married Socrates Onasis, a Greek millionaire. There is a whole story behind Onasis and Jaqueline Kennedy, leaving behind a lone daughter. Some reading for those who care to read about that trail of events. The same Kennedy has a whole International Airport named after him. I thought he deserves a memory. If that makes some sense Kay, hope Mr Justice settles down as we proceed on shaping Gambia for the better. By this precedence, will it not be fair that other Bantaba members provide some clue for their choice of image? I now hand over to your good self to move on from this point. |
Karamba |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2007 : 06:30:16
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Thanks buddy for a great job. I am sure the matter is settled whether your response satisfies everyone or not. The answer , as a way of appreciation of the question, is itself sufficient...
Thanks again. |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2007 : 07:09:55
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Karamba, Jackie married Aristotle Onassis - why mix up one wise man with an other? Socrates by the way was also murdered in a cruel way. Jackie and Ari didn't have any daughter together, but i remember that there was indeed a lonely and strange heiress to Ari's fortune - a daughter from another marriage. Of course JFK was (and still is) an icon, as was his whole family. All these handsome people, and all those tragedies that befell them!! I think the Kennedy's were to the Americans what the Royal Windsors are to the British. I remember so well the day that JFK was shot. It was on my mother's birthday and my mother and her sisters (who were then in their late thirties) were all crying in front of our black and white tv-set. I can't remember how many times i saw 'the tapes', showing us how he was one moment smiling and waving and the next moment a bullet pierced his brain. A very painful demonstration of how none of us knows when the our time has come!
Well, apart from all his good and bad political habits there was an other habit of Mr Kennedy that has been highlighted ever so often: he was a womanizer, big time! It is said he was insatiable! so, Karamba.........?
Kay, stupid question i know: who is the man we see appearing under your name? For some reason i always feel that this is how you look.
I myself, even if my life depended on it, would have a hard time finding a man or a woman, dead or alive, that i would like to put forward as 'my hero'. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2007 : 21:00:27
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Mr.Justice
"Let him that has no sin throw the first stone" (By courtesy of Janko)
Thanks for the correction there Anna, and the addition Kennedy a womaniser!! What do you call Clinton? Yet Bill was confident enough to tell Americans "our economy is strong."
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Mr.Justice
Gambia
51 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2007 : 23:01:22
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| Karamba, am glad that you have responded.I never knew that you have passion for genocidal killers.I think the only difference between kennedy and Yahya Jammeh is that Kennedy mass murdered people outside the United States,while Jammeh murdered his own people.Where does that leaves both of them?Offcourse they are both killers and mass murderers.Americans seeing him as a hero is no surprise.They are capable of creating St, and villains.Didnt the Americans see Reagan as a hero?offcourse they do.But do you know the mass murders and the criminal operations, reagan did in Latin America?Karamba,i will not take you seriously,as long as you associate yourself with a mass killer.No matter how the Americans see Kennedy,he was nothing but a mass killer.I think in a just world, Kennedy should have face the same fate face by Saddam Hussien, there is no question about that.Karamba, i think this bank of knowledge, as you called it can help you understand, how deadly Kennedy was.What did Malcolm X say when Kennedy was murdered?offcourse "chickens coming home to roast".And he was right in all moral aspects.Yes, i agree with you,that the Gambia is been hijacked by a criminal and a murderer and that is really a concern to all Gambians.I dont question that and never will.I think you are just so confused about the battle you are fighting. |
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