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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 21:27:07
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Does imperialism has role? IMF? World Bank? Could that be intentional efforts making africa not getting any better. Why would I want another china or india to compete? Why would want africa with the richest resources to be superpower? I would want africa deal with wars, disease, economic problems, corruption, destruction. Why would I want africa to get better?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 01:50:13
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quote:
Originally posted by MADIBA
Toubab thanks for that open-minded posting. Corruption takes the face of its immediate environment. What's corruption in one country may necessarily not mean corruption in another.
The Kenyans are in the fore front of corruption yes. What is the 'mighty' west doing if its is so caring? I maybe wrong but just a weeks ago there was a debate here (UK) whether goods/produce coming from Kenya mainly tea and flowers should be limited in the fight against green house gas emissions? Some pressure group i think an environmment friendly group, complained about emissions by flights from Kenya. Those produces are one of the most important cash crops of Kenya, yet here are people who want to further aggravate the suffering of a people? Isnt it ironical?
Africa doesn't need self-pitying. Africans got to get their act right and now.
If only African Nations would take your clear sensible advice you mentioned in your last paragraph and act on it Africa would prosper I am sure of that. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 13:04:03
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| Lets keep things on track. What this programme was about was corrupt African govenments with little regard to the plight of their own people. An example in the programme, was Serea Leon was given 57 Million pounds for education No one knows where the money has gone. So funding has been stopped. This has happend time time and time again. All over Africa |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 13:37:27
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Does what you say imply that well off countries should stop giving money away and use it for their own people?,after all thats where the money has come from taxes,the government of any country has no money of its own it belongs to the taxpayers.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 15:40:37
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quote:
Originally posted by MADIBA
I watched the film last night. But any surprises no? I have visited Kenya many times in the past. I know it is ranked very high in terms of corruption to probably the level of Nigeria. Snuggel your assertion of billions of aid from the west being guzzled by corrupotion, and that ,that western aid to have developed Africa is further from the truth. Even with no large scale corruption in Africa, the key to Africa's development is with Africans themselves and not handouts from the west. Africa should re-discover herself.
Sorious Samurai could have done better by not going only to the shanty-towns to film the documentary, he should have visited towns other than Nairobi slums
Madiba i think your comments are balanced and reasonable.infact its the simple truth. i suppose this is not the first film from Samura
Billions have been pumped into Africa. thats true, but its wrong to think African corruption is greater than in other parts of the world.Watergate,Iran Contra, Enron alone would dwarf Samura's film. Perhaps Kayjatta didnt hear about what happened at the World bank this summer.
Often ill designed projects/ aid programmes that have failed are blamed on Africans 'stealing' the money. this is not true. infact it shows a complete lack of knowledge of development matters.
AID money is not usually physical cash exchanging hands, its filled with enough paper work/red tape that can make any project fail!
Corruption is a two way thing. Yes the west is giving but they are also taking and enjoying more from the corruption than even the Africans. There was a big scandal in Malawi over a water project some years back invovling a german company, What about Margeret Thatcher's son trying to get his hands on Eq. Guinea's oil some yeahs back.
Samura should not only film in Africa every 5 yrs to shock his mainly UK/Western audience, he should go to countries like Switzerland and see how those 'righteuos' Westerners are living on the billions Abacha/corrupt Africans deposited in their banks and in the same film show starving Nigerian children, then he would have a balanced documentary that might earn him an Emmy perhaps. But then the Swiss are keeping the 'Black sheep' out but not the 'dirty money'.
if he had made a film about progress in some african countries or efforts some are making it would not be aired and he doesnt realise it.
perhpas the most famous slums are Soweto etc. not created by corruption but a political system supported by ''billions poured into South Africa''. He is not aware that whilst school children where being shot death, the West was investing, albeit corruptly as it was illegal at that time in goldmines, nuclear power stations oil refineries etc. Yet the corrupt Africans he mentions have provided millions of previously disadvantaged people have been provided with state funded homes, water, electricity , healthcare, school, jobs which you will never hear.
Africa expects her sons to also do their duty, especially when they have that 45mins where they capture a global audience - atleast they can give a different image of Africa, by an African. |
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 17:57:42
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Yes I understand what you say njucks all countries have skeletons in the cupboard and are not whiter than white (no pun intended).
But what we are talking about here is the African govenments that have siffond of billions of dollars that was ment for thier people. |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 20:08:41
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To every coin there are two sides. Some African leaders are corrupt to the bone, but this is not an African speciality. As Njucks and Toubab pointed out, it is a universal malaise. Corruption is not the only variable in the function of Africa's under-development. The Man City Owner , former Thai PM is right now wanted by the Thai people to stand corruption charges, yet the champions of democarcy are not crying for his extradition? Roman Abramovich the Chelsea owner is also accused in some quarter of some dirty oil deals where he made his fortune, yet he's welcomed wit open arms to spend his loot in thie econmies. Back to the African perspective, Mobutu was one of the biggest thieves in modern history, where did he siphone his loot? didnt they know? Yet he was propped in power and accorded Red carpets where ever he went to in the West? He was used, dumped and left to rot, Jean Bedel Bokassa,ditto, Charles Taylor, ditto, what happen to the ban on blood diamonds?
I for one will live and die in dignity. Sekou Toure a dictator in the eyes of the west, was quoted as saying he preferred to live in a dignified poverty, rather than live a slave in affluence. Great wisdom, great man. Lassana Conte and Guinea have the second largest bauxite reserves in the world yet where are they? Sekou knew there were minerals but never allowed the resources to be plundered. Lassana once on invited the vultures and some were never invited in the first place to plunder those riches.
Africans myself inclusive, should wake up . The French made fools out of some Francophone intellectuals, the great Seng inclusive, by calling them black French or overseas Frenchmen (Francais d'outremer). They have played on our minds for very long times and we have followed them groping in the dark that long. The road will be rough but it is worth it for posterity. Self-belief and hardwork took China, Malaysia, some north African countries were they are today. The cosy US and Western Europe of today had been built by tjose who decided to sacrifice for future generation. Thats why we are craving for those facilities. Somebody must be read to sacrfice.
We have jaw jawed for a longtime , we must act act now. Sitting in West throwing stones back home will not help the situation. we must be ready to take the goods we acquired during our stint overseas and implement them home. technology transfers. One maybe tempted to say but you are in UK yet are are advocating for return to the motehrland. Once i have accomplished my education, the reason why am here in the first place am going home to do my bit. The developed world had their dark days too. But it took sacrifce and true patriotism to take them where they are today. Even if it meant they were going to cause gross human rights violation to achieve their goals. They had to invade peoples lands seize them,sell them like common marchandize to till their lands, steal their wealth in blood and kind in the name of civilzation for ages. Teach them ways of not knowing who they are but that they were insignificant and whatever the master did was right. Indeed to them LEARNING IS BETTER THAN SILVER AND GOLD. WHAT A FARCE! ARISE AFRICA AND SHINE
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madiss |
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Karl
136 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 19:19:59
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Well said madiba!!I love and acknowledged your last two paragraphs. For a very long time Africa has been used like a slot machine for vending raw materials and resources for the benefits of the western imperialist masters to this day, who only gamble and invest very little but always pretend and make us belief they're doing the world for us.
However, the instruments of these betrayals were always held at the rear tail end by our own selves and it's time for us to look ahead with a new vision to let go that tail end and hold on to the head inorder to steer towords the right direction. |
"People who shut their eyes to reality simply invite their own destruction, and anyone who insists on remaining in a state of innocence long after that innocence is dead turns himself into a monster" J Baldwin |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 19:59:50
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One thing that you have forgotten,you can only sell materials to those who want to buy  ,and, yes, you guessed it these are "Western Imperialist Masters" (whatever that might mean,presumably that they are not Socialists, I suppose! 
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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brikama
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2007 : 00:42:15
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I disagree with people who blame the West for Africa’s woes. I think we are to take greatest blame for our underachievement. I think African governments have taken the lead in corruption and maladministration. What is corruption?
Corruption is a general concept describing any organized, interdependent system in which part of the system is either not performing duties it was originally intended to, or performing them in an improper way, to the detriment of the system's original purpose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption.
Isn’t the above definition of corruption the vey causes of our problems? Our systems are not serving the purposes for which they were created by the peoples. Most African governments are not democratic; they are undemocratic and rule with impunity. There are more dictators in Africa than any where in the world. Africa is associated with all the major ills in the world; it is home of abject poverty, disease, squalor, and corruption. Africa lags behind all other areas in most of the major human development indicators.
We have very serious problems that need urgent attention.
Corruption, of course, is not unique to African governments; it is a global phenomenon. The Enron, WorldCom, Iran Contra, many others scandals are testaments to this phenomenon. The real different comes into play when these scandals are discovered. In the West the problem is redressed by rule of law, while in Africa it is not normally redressed at all. In Africa, people’s participation in their governments is limited and vital decision making powers are left in the hands of a few individuals without accountability. While in the West, citizen participation and involvement in decision making are encouraged to ensure accountability and rule of law.
Sometimes I wonder loudly as to why and how Africa comes to be the most under developed region in the world. Is it due to slavery and colonialism or is it due to our own actions or inactions. According to archaeological findings, Africa is the first place inhabited by humans. I wonder how come we could not compete with our migrant cousins in other places in the world. Why our ancestor allowed themselves to be enslaved by a minority whites? Why they allowed to be colonized, through divide and rule strategy? These are questions that linger in my mind. If we agree for a moment that slavery and colonialism are to be blamed for Africa’s woes, what have we done with self-rule? What/where are the yields of self-rule?
Let’s take the Gambia for example; the PPP government of Dawda Jawara could not build a single high school during their tenure in office. The current regime is not only squandering our resources, they are also torturing, illegally detaining, maiming, and killing us in broad daylight. The APRC government is “not performing duties it was originally intended to, or performing them in an improper way, to the detriment of the system's original purpose” of the Republic of the Gambia. No one dare to ask for conformity with the original purpose of government by the people and for the people.
I believe that no amount of foreign aid or a lack of it would determine Africa’s future. I believe that African’s future squarely lies in the hands of Africans. We all know the West has been our enemy for a long time and therefore we cannot depend on them for guidance or support. We must device our own strategies for the creation of knowledge and prosperity for all Africans.
Brikama
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2007 : 22:54:42
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Madiba I couldn't agree with you more "Africa should rediscover herself", put in the effort and work because it is only by hard work that Africa will raise herself out of poverty. It is Africans who will do the majority of the work to transcend the barriers of unemployment and create jobs. No one else will do this for Africa other than Africans. Isn't it ironic that one 83.37 carat Angolan diamond can cost £7,913,906 at Sothebys in London and Angola receives nothing for it but Mr Georges Marciano reaps the profit.(metro 16/11/07.p32) Africans need to focus on what Africa has to offer than looking for solutions outside of Africa to solve her problems. Where are Africa's homegrown Diamond Cutters?
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2007 : 23:07:18
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Sister, what has happened ,again, I agree with you,but I cannot answer your last question at all,why are there no "home grown African" diamond cutters? after all The Egyptians (Africans of course) had a fantastic civilisation that lasted for many many years but disappeared,Why?,The Egyptians produced fantastic items in Gold and workmanship was out of this world.People in Mali also had a great civilisation where beautiful things were made,that time in Africa's past has never reappeared again in recent times.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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