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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 20:10:12
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That's nice message. It is the Ahmadis. i am yet to comprehend their focus.
I thought they belief
-there is a prophet after Muhammad saw who happens to be Ghulam
-they don't belief in fitnatul dhazal (anti-christ)
-they don't in the mahdi, or that the mahdi was ghulam
-they belief in the death of Esa/Jesus-pbuh
-they don't belif in Esa's (pbuh) coming back.
-among other things
any ahmadiii here who can help explain these, & thanks while there is time.
(courtesy of the Point)
http://www.thepoint.gm/National%20Stories1410.htm
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 11:43:00
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dalton ,whils you wait for your reply ,browse this website for more information on the hamadiya jamaat.
http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2007 : 11:03:17
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| kobo ,scholars are aware of the qadiani efforts to translate quran into our local alnguages ,that is being taken care of.try to compare the ahmadiya translation with the normal alulsunah waljamah translation.they wish to misdirect and trap unaware readers.but thank god many gambians know all their hidden agendas.they interpolate words and change contexual meaning to give crdeit to qulam ahmad.they still have the prophets coming to them .so let them translate into all languages that will not change the efforts of our scholars. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2007 : 19:10:49
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Are the Ahmadis under the jurisdiction of The Gambia Supreme Islamic Council? I assumed that they are an independent religious entity. If they still independent, then why do they need to:
quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Hope that these translations would get authentication from The Gambia Supreme Islamic Council
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"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2007 : 22:11:10
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| they are not under the supreme islamic council ,they are clasified as non-muslims.but they call themselves as muslims and they translate the quran according there wimps.many who know them from there high schools will know what type of translations their quran is in english.they claim that prohethood continues after muhammad yet they still call themselves muslims ,they disputes ayahs of the quran or change it contexts and meanings to suit what they wish to achieve but many of their followers hardly know those facts.how can qulam ahamad said the word seal doesn't mean the end of prophethood but some thing else whilst the many hadith that support the sayings of the prophet on the issue of him being the last of all the prophets .if the ahamadis call themself qulamite or qadiani or some thing different ,no one will have any issue with them.wolf in sheep clothing ,many of our gambian brothers have been deceived due to lack of understanding about the ahamadis. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2007 : 16:50:03
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How dare?
1. The Ahmadis believe there is a prophet after Nabi Muhammad-PBUH, namely ‘Ghulam”
2. The Ahmadis don’t believe in the fitnatul-dhazal/the anis Christ
3. The Ahmadis don’t believe in the coming of the Mahdi (Imam of the rightful prophets.)
4. They have controversial views about the rise and coming back of Esa ibn Mariam (Jesus)-PBUH
5. They don’t even pray behind other Muslims other than an Ahmadis.
The name “Ahmadi” and “Ahmadians” are serious misnomers. Islam is not like other religions where they are named after their founders, for e.g. Christianity after Christ; Buddhism after Buddha; Judaism after Judah et cetera. Verily the name of our true religion is Islam, and those that practice it Muslims. The best grip is the Quran and the Sunnah. The Quran-words of Allah/God SWT. The Sunnah-way of life of the prophet-PBUH.
The fear is these Ahmadis might translate the Quran to suite their personal agenda, in addition to distorting some of the verses. Then, it becomes truly unacceptable. Since it was accepted that Islamic activities must be approved by the SIC, their move to publish it without consent to the SIC violates that agreement.
Of course, there is greater need for tolerance and acceptance of the tolerable and acceptable. Obviously a verse goes “There is no compulsion in religion.” /Quran. In Quranic chapter 109, it ended by saying “To you belong your religion, and ours belong to us.” But if the Ahmadis’ efforts are to pollute the minds of the people by intentionally distorting the verses, it is a need for scholars to tighten their belts and battle their unacceptable deeds.
It remains to be seen their long battle with vocal Oustars Bunjeng continues many years after his death.
We seek refuge in God from the rejected Satan and his many accomplices. We ask God for true guidance. We ask God to show us the righteous path and protect us from every evil omen, trial and difficulty. Whatever is good for our souls as Allah willeth in this world and the hereafter, so be it. O Allah, do not take our souls except in a state of pure Islam and make us die as believers. O Allah, do not return us to disbelief after guidance and do not test us with a burden greater than we can bear.
Ya Allah
Ya Samad
Ya Karim
Ya rabana
Ya ghafur
Ya Dhulzalal
Ya Rahman
Ya Raheem
Ya Malik
The best names belong to you, O Allah.
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Edited by - Dalton1 on 04 Dec 2007 17:04:28 |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 01:35:56
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courtesy of G-L
Like Uncle Suntou put it, I also acknowledge their tremendous efforts in seeing an informed Gambia, notably Nusrat (Bundung), Tahir (Mansakonko), and Nasir (Basse.) Not withstanding, it makes it all the way harder for assessment. But the fact remains their stance on Islam and certain beliefs they have are not helping for salvation, if purely we go by the Quran and the lifestyle of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH.)
In my humble view, with due respect to all the forwarded arguments, they should have kept to the treaty at hand, i.e. seeking the approval of Supreme Islamic Counsel. I have a fear that they have an agenda. In their pursuit of it, they will do anything to achieve their aims and objectives. In so doing, they would have succeeded in contaminating the long serving truth of guidance which over time served to guide people to righteousness with possession of true knowledge of faith.
I also understand, it is hard to debate religion. But true Islam commands that one believe wholly of the revelations of Allah (swt) and the sayings of Nabi-Muhammad (saw). Any disbelief of a part thereof equals “disbelief.”
Here are some of the reasons why I personally think it should be subjected to further review and finally for authentication.
-That correct measures were taking in translating it.
-That no verses were left out or added for personal interest, or propagation of ones’ lining.
-That regardless of their belief system, they have succeeded in presenting the message from its original version.
-That the standard of compilation or translation was uniformly observed.
-That such translators themselves understood the verses in their true context.
-That there was no interest for intentional distortion to suite ones’ personal agenda. That would mean recognizing the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (Saw) that accompanied as commentary to some of the verses.
-That they didn’t also hide their true beliefs to those followers or translators of theirs.
On a note Karim, it would be nice to hear from the professor-Sanneh. May be you can forward him the matter under discussion and have him opine on it.
Any one here knows the whole details of their 'exchanges' with the late- (May Allah swt be pleased with him) vocal Imam Oustars Bunjeng?
'For True Islam'
Yero
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 13:23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Prince
Are the Ahmadis under the jurisdiction of The Gambia Supreme Islamic Council? I assumed that they are an independent religious entity. If they still independent, then why do they need to:
quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Hope that these translations would get authentication from The Gambia Supreme Islamic Council
The holy quran is maintained in its ORIGINAL ARABIC TEXTS (i.e. ONLY ONE VERSION & PRESERVATIONS OF THE REVELATIONS AS THEY WERE TAUGHT & CAME FROM THROUGH MUHAMMAD (s.a.w) FOR ALL TIMES & ALL AGES TILL DOOMS DAY!). Even if they are non-members or independent, authentication of those translations from Supreme Islamic Council would help VALIDATE GENUINENESS, UNIVERSAL ISLAMIC ACCEPTANCE & PRACTISE.
Am not sure but told that Ahmadi have their own version of the holy quran because some very important verses have been edited and varies with ORIGINAL ARABIC TEXTS! I don't know what is the difference between URDU AND ARABIC and whether a quran in URDU is different from a quran in ARABIC? |
Edited by - kobo on 06 Dec 2007 13:48:29 |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2007 : 13:36:15
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THE AHMADIS
Please find time to listen to the Khutbah (part 1 & part 2 of sermon) wholly. It is very revealing.
http://www.iladinolong.com/lectures/abdullah/abdullah.html
I always wonder; where does true religious tolerance and acceptance lie then?
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2007 : 14:48:50
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Dalto 1. Am not sure whether they are not muslims (AS ONLY ALLAH KNOWS!); but am sure that they should RIGHTFULLY be considered muslims on these bases:-
1) 'LAAH E LAAH HA ILLAL LAH!' (There is no GOD but ALLAH and MUHAMMAD (s.a.w) is prophet and the last prophet/messenger; called 'SHAHADAH' or declaration of faith). The following quote invoked by them in the openining of Imam's sermon at Eid-ul fitr (under Point 2.) below is more than enough; "We praise Allah Almighty and invoke His blessings and mercy on the best of creation, the Holy Prophet Muhammad Mustapha (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)."
2) Beautiful messages through Eid-ul-fitr Message: The Remembrance Of Allah Almighty Should Be A Permanent Condition Of The Heart And The Being, courtesy of The Point Newspaper under http://www.thepoint.gm/National%20Stories1410.htm
3) Worthy causes in education and health inter alia. Also courtesy of The point Newspaper:-
a. Ahmadiyya Muslim Hospital Installs New Medical Equipment under http://www.thepoint.gm/National%20Stories1207.htm
b. Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at Extends Support to Flood Victims under http://www.thepoint.gm/National%20Stories1355.htm |
Edited by - kobo on 07 Dec 2007 14:56:49 |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 04:24:23
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Kobo,
I said it here before that tolerance and acceptance has its limits to where it must be tolerable and acceptable. Beyond that, it is a criminal act for one to intentionally twist the holy verses. It is as well a criminal act to fold your hands in the name of ‘tolerance’ and ‘acceptance’ to watch anyone twist the holy verses. It becomes even more criminal to endorse their efforts in altering the verses. This vindicates the quranic verse that challenged all those that disbelief in it, to produce verses of their own, resembling what was given to the noble prophet to deliver.
http://www.iladinolong.com/lectures/abdullah/abdullah.html
Now here is the truth to matter. When I asked where does true ‘tolerance’ lie, I meant to say what indication of Ghulam’s books showed tolerance and acceptance of others’ faith. In the links provided above, the honorable Imam Fatty quoted from Ghulam’s own books. If these quotes are to go by, I see nothing but tales of a misguided religious bigot, thrilled with arrogance at the mercy of his own hallucinations-uniting with God in a bed as in intercourse. (Subhanallah a million times.) Or that the families of Jesus (PBUH) were prostitutes? (Subhanallah a million times.)
They know what to do, i.e. as was suggested to them. Caprice!!!
I rest my case.
Dalton
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Edited by - Dalton1 on 08 Dec 2007 04:26:44 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 03:31:07
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Comrade Dalton 1! There is no need to rest your case as we pursue the TRUTH ON AHMADIS (INCLUDING ITS FOUNDER). Those conditions are VALID to consider them as muslim brotherhood. However there are certain ALLEGATIONS AGAINST THEM and WHY THEY ARE BANNED IN PAKISTAN FOR CERTAIN REASONS WHICH WE NEED TO PROBE FOR BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THIS BRANCH UNDER ISLAMIC FAITH.
Earlier Santanfara did help us to gather certain crucial information from this link http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/
Perhaps we need to check their website to expose us with more knowledge, compare and contrasts with the above link. Therefore don't rest your case as we research ON THE TRUTH! There are lots of Islamic factions in the Gulf states including Pakistan and Saudi Arabia behind the smoke screens of POLITICS BY ENEMIES OF ISLAM. We have sunnis, shi ites, ahmadis, wahaabis amongst many names inspired by different leaderships, imams and 'ulamahs' or 'sheikhs'. Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) shed tears and once foretold this DIVISIONS (to up to over 70) after his departure and that only one leads to the STRAIGHT PATH!
Thanks for making your points very clear! |
Edited by - kobo on 09 Dec 2007 03:42:33 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 10:54:04
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However Dalton1
What do you think about Nation of Islam? Aren't they considered to be same or worse than Ahmedis as marginalized groups? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 21:01:26
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
However Dalton1
What do you think about Nation of Islam? Aren't they considered to be same or worse than Ahmedis as marginalized groups?
Turk,
Thank you much for your request of my opinion. Wallace Deen Muhammad, son to Nation of Islam pioneer Elijah, is a respected Imam in Chicago, Illinois. He denounced his father’s errs and also has called on many especially Farrakhan and his men to come to true Islam. The eyes of many of them opened now; as a result they embraced true Islam.
My own observation on them, obviously after years of interaction with many deflectors from their group is that they tend to combine activism for American minorities and also safeguarding Elijah’s path.
In conclusion, Elijah was a liberator. He was not a prophet or messenger. This is attested by honorable Malcolm's testimony.
That said, you have a beautiful daughter.
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2007 : 03:39:03
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thank you.
In my opinion NOI should not be considered as muslim organization. As Wallace Deen Mohammed and Malcolm X pointed, they should come to true islam. So they are not any different from Ahmedis. They are more like political organization and in that sense I really like them. But Elijah claimed that he was a holy man, messanger. Groups like NOI and Ahmedis are fundamentally different. While I think member of Ahmedis have right to observe their religious beliefs, I agree that they are not considered to be islamic. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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