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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 22:59:17
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Greeting Everyone
Carrying on from Bev and Tappala exchange on Cultural General I thought I'd start a new thread in here
30 years ago Gambians wouldn't need a work visa to work in Britain.
15 years ago Gambians didn't need a visitors Visa to enter Britain.
Neither did they have to marry someone to stay in the country.
Very soon they will need to have the equivalents of GSCE A-C in English language just to get a work visa.
It will cost £950 for Remain to Stay including the British Citizen test. This is not refunded if they fail the test but paid for every test taken.
Bev you're right there are still people the world over who don't want to travel. The difference is now that people are being prevented from migrating and traveling being denied a fundamental Human Right of Freedom of movement. This only applies to Non Western Citizens.
Just imagine if the flow of food stopped flowing from these countries which we are dependent on in the west to feed us and they all decided to trade amongst themselves we would be seeing a completely different picture. When the supermarkets resembled those in some parts of Zimbabwe.
Peace
Sister Omega
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Peace
Sister Omega |
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 00:42:15
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| Are you sure about the 15 years ago Gambians didn't need a visa to enter Britain? |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 09:43:25
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If the movement of people around the world was completely free do we have any statistics that 'guess' how many people would come to UK and how many would leave?
Would the countries that Uk citizens want to go to be similarly free and easy with entry eg Australia. (I cant emigrate to Australia now, I am too old).
Ideallistically I would love everyone to have the freedom to move where ever they want to. But would there be any conditions? Would you have to have a job to go to? Or can you claim on the state straight away? Would you be able to live where ever you wanted for aslong as you wanted or is it for a temporary amount of time?
If I decided aged 50 to move to Gambia and sit in the sun would the Gambian government have to pay me to do that if I cant find a job? Just wondered?
I am being a bit flipant, but I suppose I am saying that if every country has the same open doors and same NHS and DHSS then perhaps it would work.
Then I could see that as people come in to UK others would leave and it would reach some kind of equilibriam.
IN the EU there is a reciprical agreement between nation members, but still the Uk has a lot more Poles coming here than Brits going there.
Ideallistically it would be great if every child at Birth was given a passport which gave them RIGHTS as a human being. The right to travel freely.
The right to residency is another issue, which I am still not sure on. Ideallistically we should be able to live where we chose, but practically how would a small country like UK cope with the numbers? |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 13:58:07
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| Lily, October 1994 the visa requirement came into operation. |
The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 15:21:36
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| Thanks Sab |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 22:14:26
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Global Warming will be another reason for people who will want to travel permanently. As we see the movie 'the day after tomorrow', americans had to go to mexico as refugee. That was a fantasy but today we are seeing the reality of especially arabs/africans are forced to migrate due to result of climate and economic situation.
Old population in europe would be another reason for human migration. Younger generation from south would help europe to overcome the aging issue. But first "the plan" must be executed. To stop unhealty migration, improve the conditions in the countries that export human. Europe idealist plan 'theory' of spread the democracy and wealth would be excellent opportunity to help the travel situation. As the plan already moved towards Eastern Europe, now they are in the process of moving to Turkey. The longer term should be to south. First wave would be morroco, algeria, libya, tunisia, ukraine. Than russia and the other middleeastern countries would be included to such union. Than next more stable muslim africa in sahara.
Europe already owe this to africa on moral ground because of colonialism and their pollution to mess up their lives and climate. Will it happen though? Unlikely. I said idealist plan on theory. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 16 Sep 2007 22:16:37 |
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jammin
Jamaica
149 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 04:32:20
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Much ado about nothing.
Most, if not all developed countries, had an open door policy towards immigrants, IF that immigrant "satisfied" certain criteria.
As people from lesser developed countries find the financial means to travel and migrate to more developed countries, laws,statutes and a plethora of requirements are constructed to prevent such movement. SIMPLE.
People still have the right to travel, that was never taken away, but the hurdles that "SOME" people have to negotiate makes it virtually impossible to do so. |
Like a colossus He doth bestride the Narrow World |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 08:19:50
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Sister Omega,
According to the news last week Sweden is planning to open an employment office in some West African countries. Gambia is one of them.
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2007 : 00:42:46
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As a product of an immigrant Jamaican family born in the UK I do emphasis with the different waves of arrivals entering Britain especially when many of the obstacles thrown in their way stem from irrationality. Britain's economy is dependent on migrants workers who contribute a lot the economy most of whom contribute to the Tax System. They usually are more willing to do jobs that Nationals are unwilling to do. I think since more stringent laws have been brought in to stem the flow of immigration has been stifled the flow of migration in so much that restricted movement of immigrants tends to cause more socio-economic problems than what it solves. By creating an underclasses of illegal immigrates who given the opportunity to become legitimised would procatively contribute the UK ecomony and also be in a better position to send remittances back to their own countries, and at the same time contribute to their host country through taxation and State pension schemes.
Most immigrants come with the intention of returning home at some point usually after 5 years but tend to get bogged down within the system because of xyenophobic hysterical stereotypes which are spun out of proportion by sensational media spin. Instead of mariginalising immigrants they should be encouraged to work and earn a living without having to depend on the system. With the radical revamping of the social security system the culture of dependency is slowly being broken down and sttitudes are being challenged by changes in the welfare system that actively encourages those capable of working back to work with an infrustructure to actively assist the unemployed Uk population to seek employment.
Those who are casualities to the system are those who lack both academic or/ and linguistic skills and limited work experience in the UK. Therefore it's important to realistically equip those would be migrants to come equipped with skills for independency and not come with false expectations of grandier from western friends subsidizing thedir incomes when they arrive here in the west.
I've always wondered why it is when immigrant families struggle so hard in the west to scrap out a living that they project the illusion of wealth when they return back home to visit their families and friends refusing to share with their loved ones the harsh realities of living in the west. Thereby perpetuating the myth that fortunes are here to be found at every turn. The reality is that most people who are fortunate enough to work in the west have to work long hours and pay at least 22% of the wages on tax, not to mention bills and all the other stealth taxes imposed on them to fund government whimsical policies.
If the truth be known beforehand many of the youth would think twice before risking their lives on the high seas in ricketty boats to drown or be locked up in reception in centres Spain and Italy etc. Before they are uncermoniously deported make home or to the nearest port out the side of the EU.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2007 : 00:51:11
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Lily yes I am abosolutely sure of my facts surrounding the visa most restrictions on Commonwealth countries came in round the same time before Britain opened its doors for it white European neighbours. The irony is the Commonwealth have had longer ties with Britian than its own European neighbours and many of whom don't have the language barriers as their European neighbours have.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2007 : 09:57:40
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some measure to stop the tied of immigrants which right now is boiling down to people trafficking, yes the new migrants should now how to speak english before they get here, people fromthe commonwealth countries normally do, but look at any tax appers , moeny claiming forms they are written in a minimum of six different languages,. immigrants of 20 years ago never expected to be housed, fed or given benefits they worked hard and contibuted to the economy. has anyone seen the amount of romanian women working the streets begging, i was in kingston and was shocked at hom many are on the streets.
every person who lives in an inner city area will notice the changing face of their community it is not always for the best. somewhere along the line, the bad ones are getting through and making it worse for the goods one who should be helped. for everyone person trafficked, someone gets rich.
in the next 3 years there will be a backlash against europe allowing somemany people in. some EU countries will feel it more. Norway it getting fidgety, Italy wants better controls, and if Turkey gts in watch and head for the hills. that will open a corridor for some many other travellers.
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2007 : 14:35:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Greeting Everyone
Bev you're right there are still people the world over who don't want to travel. The difference is now that people are being prevented from migrating and traveling being denied a fundamental Human Right of Freedom of movement. This only applies to Non Western Citizens.
Sister Omega
Sorry, I don't agree - I can't just up-sticks and move to Canada (former Commonwealth country)or the USA or Australia (former Commonwealth country) or New Zealand (former Commonwealth country)without meeting their visa regulations so do tell how this only applies to non-western citizens???? |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2007 : 16:07:34
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The irony is the Commonwealth have had longer ties with Britian than its own European neighbours and many of whom don't have the language barriers as their European neighbours have.
i would love to see more developing commonwealth countries being allowed to travel to other commonwealth places, i understand there has to be restrictions but they could be fairer.
15 years when gambians didn't need a visa to enter britain, life in Gambia was happy, so not everyone wanted to leave, it was understood that one person would leave and look after their family, things were okay.
Also a Gambian was a Gambian he was a native of the country they said they were from, nowadays who knows. War, corruption, famine, drought, conflict have made people look out wards for help.
as a member of the commonwealth I am surprised that countries who beling to this voluntary union, do not ask for more help, especially with regards to trade, how easy is it to trade with Gambia if your are a Canadian, or education.
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2007 : 23:11:11
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Me-Me you would be surprised how easy it is to migrate to Austrailia or New Zealand as a EU Citizen. Check this out http://www.jobfastrack.co.nz/tegindex.php Jambo there is quite alot of South Migration happening already.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 18 Sep 2007 23:15:30 |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 10:02:19
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sister omega, how easy is it for africans to get to canada and australia, they still need to go through a visa check, and show qualifications.
kobo is australia, how easy was it for him to emigrate, secondly i would like to see more scholarship/eduction/apprecticship programs offered. Taiwan offered 25 scholarships, how commonwealth countries have offered that, even if the students have to take a test to prove they have education standards to meet scholarships they would pass and be on their way up the ladder, but i do not see many offers of help from developed commonwealth countries to their developing commonwealth countries counterparts.
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