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somita
United Kingdom
163 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 19:01:51
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A very narrow definition of poor, i ague that it will never make it into dictionary. My argument is that dollar means nothing, the measure of quality of life in Gambia should not be made in dollars. Once you put it in dollars, its take the true value away, given it a very fictional value.
Village life as it is today in Gambia, canot be measure in monetary value, which ever way you put. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 19:22:38
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You are certainly entitled to that view , Somita. However , we need to put a price tag on things we produce and dispose of. We cannot put the Gambia on the path to development unless we take account of all our resources. We need to have yardsticks.
Thanks again. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 19:31:12
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| There is a price and value to everything. At the policy level we need to define poverty so that we can identify our clients and deal with the situation. To merely go to poverty alleviation workshops in a 5 Star Hotel to me is a betrayl of the cause. Poverty must be discussed where the poor live but not in air conditioned and cossy places far removed form the reality. WE NEED ACTION. NO MORE FEASIBILITY STUDIES |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 23:17:36
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Somita I think we are on the same side. I really respect the culture of village life in the Gambia. Those things your family grow mean they are less dependent on the monetary system. That is good for survival. Just like in 2nd world war my grandma had chickens in her garden and grew vegetables.
Quality of life and impoverishment is about much more than MONEY......but we do have to try to quantify it so we can measure it and therefore measure improvement or worsening of conditions. |
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ganbi
United Kingdom
20 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 23:24:53
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You said it well kondorong. after all the strategy for poverty alleviation workshops conducted under the Jawara govt. at kairaba hotel with buffet lunches, tea breaks and D300 per participant per day not to mention what the so called steering committee members earn per day, when the poor farmers can't get money for their produce. It is a mockery to the poor people. I hate this phrase.
Salam. |
Edited by - ganbi on 15 Mar 2006 23:32:00 |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 23:42:02
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kondorong, i think in all fairness the Government does know what poverty is and has defined it very well. this is done in a report prepared by gambians annually called the Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper(PRSP). i have read all of them and it defines poverty according to what the government thinks it is. there is no single definition but it defines poverty in terms of child poverty,gender, urban, energy, health, etc. it is a good document. the one dollar a day is the World Bank standard and applies to all 3rd world countries and is accepted by all donors. but surely it varies from country to country.it does not apply to all
i think Sidia raised some serious issues but there are two issues here. a government that runs a country must look from the top. Sidia is looking from the farmers eye and rightly so. but farmers are not the only poor people in the country. there is urban poverty for example.there are people in the heart of serrekunda who cannot afford to pay school fees. the government (any) must look at the 'Macro' view. there are things outside the government's control. the price of fertilizer could be linked to the oil price at least depending which type you use. for example how much we can reduce poverty is directly linked to how many tourists come to the country and how much they spend. you will not see the link if you look only from the farmer's view.
another point not seen from the farmers view is the effect of globalisation. what is the effect of 'dumping' of cheaper imported food on the competitiness of the local farmers' produce ? for example rice is grown and sold in the gambia by gambian farmers but no one buys it? why? because the imported one is cheaper, perhaps? but local production will only increase if the market is there.these variables are all complex. add it to trying to meet the health and education for all budgets!!
if you discriminate agianst imported food, the gap has to be FILLED by domestic production or else you risk social unrest as prices will shoot up due to shortage. i'm sure you're aware of the debate on subsidies to famers in EU aand USA and thier impact on global politics.
i think what gambian farmers lack is a STRONG Body to lobby on thier behalf. for example try importing wine into France.
it all very complicated.
you can read a little more about the PRSP in the Budget at
http://www.google.gm/custom?sitesearch=statehouse.gm&q=budget&domains=statehouse.gm&client=pub-4557893491724000&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1%3B&hl=en
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2006 : 00:11:07
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There is a definition ofcourse but it seems no one understood it or we turn a blind eye to it. We have many programmes before PRSP. It seems none goes beyond creating fat salaries for project directors half a milion dalasi ( and now 750, 000.00 dalasi) cars for the Managers, etc and they gather so much calories that the projects change to Personal Pocket Recovery Programmes. There were project consultants that earned 60,0000.00 dalasis a month. Public officials turn them selves into consultants and rake all the funds. If you make research, it happed in the ministry of Agriculture.
When one dries up another is created. They all came as part of the wider programme of Structural Adjustments of the 1980s and Agriculture had the most of it. Yet it is sinking year in year out. In the 1970s Jawara had intimated that Gambia was going to export rice overseas and we were just nearly there to do it. Fewer projects then and less money made the difference. RDP was the smoke screen.
I am no expert in the field and may be you can help win me over.
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
Edited by - kondorong on 16 Mar 2006 00:12:46 |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2006 : 01:04:28
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 thanks for the historical perspective. but i was merely pointing out the many factors involved especially where the money is through aid. No donor will spend/or let you spend a cent unless you DO the necessary studies. simple thats how it will work untill we have our own money. they need to get the facts. if you cant do it they will not hesistate to bring their own men to do the studies for you. perhaps you know know much the foreign consultants cost/earn?
but seriously why I mentioned the PRSP was partly to answer your concern on the definition but also just to say it was infact rather very critical, in some cases honestly indicating that poverty was infact increasing.it is not usual in Africa to entertain critism thats all. the 2002 is the most thorough, you can find it at the IMF site or http://poverty2.forumone.com/files/12016_GambiaPRSP.pdf
i cannot win you over the document speaks for itself. 3.1 (page 25) says more or less the same thing you just posted about the past.
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2006 : 01:25:46
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My brother, these payments are made to gambian nationals who wear one cap today and another the next day. Public officials are seconded to these projects so that they can earn ten times their salaries. The example i gave was paid to a gambian who for nearly 30 years worked in the same department.
In the end, the in fightings brew as to who heads what project. This is the only time when senior officers would want to be trekking upcountry.
I personnaly welcome criticism and infact my nick name at Armitage was democracy as some would call me. Feel free to critise because that is the only way i can improve myself.
I understand your point about international factors but our main problem is having a collective will to challenge this menace call poverty. I was suprised to learn that Gambia has custom made limousines to show the international community that we have now advanced. Paraphrasing the President when the King of Morocco visited.
I think we have misplaced and misguided priorities and Gambians today have the highest loan per citizen owed to the West than any country in West Africa. Scarry indeed. This just ensures the cycle of poverty. I specialised on the Structural Adjustment as my thesis at College but i cannot but conclude that i was not impressed with any of the sectors. May be things have changed now and which i will congratulate yaya for. I have not been in public service for over six years now. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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