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Formby
United Kingdom
246 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 16:14:26
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so what you're saying is that people are morally corrupt because their leader is?
Would you make the same generalisation about Americans? |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 17:01:52
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I never said people are morally corrupt! There are millions of good ppl who live in extreme poverty.
Of course not all ppl are the same!
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Formby
United Kingdom
246 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 17:18:08
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But...nicking jewellery from someones BODY as they lie on the road in agony is an act to be pitied because of poverty and moral corruption?
Am REALLY REALLY trying to understand the mindset that defends this. The conclusion I am drawing is pretty horrible. |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 17:39:52
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Who is trying to defend crime?
No no nooo, you got it all wrong now  . All I am trying to do is to give some examples on why these things can happen.
Surely, a man who is broke with no nothing is more likely to turn to crime in a hopeless dead end situation, than a man who has some wealth and can help himself enough. Well, thatīs what I think anyway. Iīm not trying to justify criminal acts.
Robbing helpless people is not a specific Gambian issue, or is that what youīre trying to say?
These things do happen everyday in many, many poor countries. And even here in the West. |
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Formby
United Kingdom
246 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 18:04:04
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yeah but it's the excusing attitude. It sounds to me like people are saying that Gambians are morally inferior and know no better. Maybe people don't realise the subtext of what they're saying.
I find it pretty patronising. I know for a fact that the average Gambian will NOT defend this sort of behaviour under any circumstance. |
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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 18:09:59
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Formby,nobody was trying to defend criminals.I am just trying to think about the situation and try to understand WHY people are doing it.I am not at all in favour of crime.
Nobody is supposed to be "pittied", it's wrong, end of.
As you (hopefully should) know, many Gambians go mad when they see things like this happen and take matters in their own hands.
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Formby
United Kingdom
246 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 18:13:41
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Not talking about pity, rather about an inherant attitude that westerners know exactly what they are doing when committing a heinous crime against the person and should be punished, whereas a reason has to be found to excuse gambians (much as you might look for a reason to excuse the behaviour of children).
Just trying to get behind the psychology of it.
Not liking it. But I don't think people realise what they're doing/saying. Which is even more worrying. |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 19:10:34
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Itīs true that we may not know exactly why things like these happen. Simply because we are not walking in the criminals shoes (atleast Iīm not  ), we can only speculate whatīs going on in someone elses head.
But facts are facts Formby, sh!t happens in this world.
It happens in the Gambia, it happens in Brazil, it happens in Ivory Coast, kids rob and beat up old grannies who can barely walk here in Sweden. So whatīs the news?
We do not think itīs ok, itīs not normal behavoiur and itīs terrible.
Is that all you wanted to hear, or that Gambians in particular are bad people?
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Edited by - Babylon on 09 Mar 2006 19:39:06 |
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Formby
United Kingdom
246 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 14:56:55
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| No, the reverse. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 17:44:42
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Formby, I have the impression that Babylon and you are discussing on different emotional levels and therefore misunderstand each other. Babylon's view at the reasons for crime is distant, while you stay in your state of shock and therefore cling to morals as something that could calm your disturbance (which is absolutely understandable).
But I think morals are so much depending on the special values of a society that it is difficult to find something that fits for all. In many cultures, for example, 'crime' was something bad you did to members of your own (ethnic) group - if you did the same thing to people outside this group, it was ok. In war, and in practiced law you find remnants of this 'primitive' view. |
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Formby
United Kingdom
246 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 20:08:42
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Serenata interesting point. (your second paragraph). This could indeed have a sway on matters. But I would remove the invrted commas from primitive because humans recognise humanity in each other so to pretend that you don't to condone material gain, well, primitive's not quite the word really. It's more savagery. I'm sorry to bring up this unpleasant issue, but that's what white people did to condone slavery.
What I was actually getting at was why so many toubabs came on trying to excuse such acts when they would, I think, not do so when opining on a similar act done by some unemployed person from a council estate near where they live. It'd be all 'bring back the stocks' (I could be wrong, I may have misjudged). In the back of my mind I was wondering why? And the conclusions weren't that great.
Anyway, forget it.
Yes i was a bit shocked because it's always been my experience that Gambians just did not do that sort of stuff. Yes, petty theft is everywhere. It was the ear-rings thing. Man, I've never seen that in gambia in all my years an I don't like it. That's why I called this thread 'Rising Crime?', I was hoping for a flood of Gambains to come on, tell me how rare it was and roundly condemn it. |
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bamba
Sweden
401 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 20:12:09
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Formby, I sincerely hope that Serenatas reply will free you from the horrors of crimes you lock yourself in. Looking at crimes from one angle is a disservice to the issues of criminalities. A horror to you can be a justifiable horror (for narrow minded reasons) to someone else. Dealing with crimes alone neglecting the causes can be very expensive for any nation whether rich or poor.
I am bit tied up these days but will surely come back to this issue very soon. If it consoles you, I dont think anyone rejoices over crimes in his/her neighbourhood. Treat malaria by getting rid of mosquitoes breeding grounds.
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Bamba |
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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 20:49:20
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Formby
It is very nice to discuss matters with you.
I will rethink what you said, it does concern my postings aswell.I like your way of discussing, because with a friendly attitude you get others to rethink and understand, not just critisise back.
You do have a point though, that maybe we did all jump to the defence......would be nice to hear some Gambian views.....
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 13:31:49
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So now we know - nowhere is perfect! I sort of think that tourism does bring an element of crime with it though ... that's the price Gambia has to pay. Just look at the more established tourist destinations and you'll see how the Gambia could look in 10 years from now.
It's the nature of things, I suppose? |
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Formby
United Kingdom
246 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 17:28:29
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Twinkly, thanks.
Bamba. To be locked into an abhorence of man's inhumanity to man is surely a burden. I hope it's a burden life always permits me to carry. |
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