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Karl
136 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Aug 2007 : 00:48:19
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"mansa kalabante, jama-jama, aka tara ala kunkilling naffa lay noo maa"
Mansa kalabante = conning or deceptive mansa/king/president. |
"People who shut their eyes to reality simply invite their own destruction, and anyone who insists on remaining in a state of innocence long after that innocence is dead turns himself into a monster" J Baldwin |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2007 : 01:32:46
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Karl,
Factual enough, 'ala nomalal buka seeyaa wotoh'
Manso Jawoh?
Mansa Barkan tan nyoo?
Mansa Faa ding nyoo?
Mansa kehwoh?
(Unfortunately, Mansa Musoh is only the queens.)
I tell you what, humor could be relieving to where am at.
Buloh buka tulung saa la dah, abeh kin nah, hanih ateh kin nah. Inkoh nyi nyoo leh balah.
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2007 : 12:34:12
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One Mansa cannot rule forever
I think the title,
MANSA is pre-colonial and
SEFO/Chef is post-colonial.
Even whereas folk use Mansa in the everyday language it does not have the same meaning as in the days of Alpha Molo Egge
What about
Mansa Siinoolaa
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 03 Aug 2007 12:37:44 |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2007 : 19:43:28
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I think Mansa Siinoolaa is the worst. He seems not know what goes on around him. That makes him deadly.
He fits the sory of the Emperor's Robes |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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Karl
136 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2007 : 21:50:11
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I agreed with you kon, sleeping mansa is the worst.
"Mansa siinoolaa, wortay bankoo kantaa nolaa." Naabe jamanoo maanglafii wor mansa siifala!
Our modern generation don't want that type of mansa.
"Mansa kendo worlay sii alaa bankoo yeere wandinoo, anin kay e-samba niatoo"
Only a good mansa can benefit, develop or advance his people.
"Allah maa naa Kambiyaa (Gambia) bankoo ana konokono din-ngon luu yeere waa laa".
May Allah bless gambia and her citizens. Amen
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"People who shut their eyes to reality simply invite their own destruction, and anyone who insists on remaining in a state of innocence long after that innocence is dead turns himself into a monster" J Baldwin |
Edited by - Karl on 03 Aug 2007 22:00:05 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 13:20:53
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Kondorong
"Apparently, i have read the travels of Mungo Park in 1789"
Fuladu was created between late 1867 and early 1870s, after the battle of Kansala and had its first Mansa in Alpha Molo Egge...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaabu#External_links |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 06 Aug 2007 00:55:56 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2007 : 10:40:30
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Gainako on-line Newspaper
FOUNDING OF BASSE
............Letters From Our Readers
RESPONSE TO BANTABA (www.gambia.dk) CONTRIBUTORS
“am not sure who was the alkalo during my stay ,but i believe it may have keba suso a mandinka..”
(Bantaba contributor)
Is this person certain that he/she ever lived in Mansajang? In whose compound did this person reside?
Otherwise, I would wonder when Kebba Suso became the Alkalo. Just to put the record straight, the
current Alkali is Jeedi Baldeh, who had succeeded Ba Jawo Baldeh, who in turn had succeeded Pateh
Baldeh… I don’t need to go on and on.
“Why is the village not named Sareh Mansajang, Sareh Hoggo (Sareh Bojo, Sareh Alpha) or Baldeh Kunda?”
“Your explanation is palatable but inconclusive as to the derivation of Santo su and Mansajang Kunda.”
Good question. This is a perfect example of the Mandinkanisation of the official names of most Gambian locations. We can equally wonder why Giroba Kunda is not Sare Giroba, Mankamang Kunda is not Sare Mankamang, Keur Mamma is not Sare Mamma or Mamma Kunda or why Serrekunda does not end in a suffix other than kunda. As far as I know Fulas generally say Sare Mansajang when speaking of the village. Other ethnic groups including the government call it Mansajang Kunda. I hope this person is not questioning why a Fula would name his child after a Mandinka. “Latrikunda German is a German resident..”
Ok, I did not know that Germans live in Latrikunda hence the name. I have never come across a German population in Latrikunda. Was this during World War II?
“Angal Fuuta is a name adapted as recent as in the mid 80´s. I think the name was made by the youth of the area. Mandingka Kunda is an area where the majority is mandingka.”
Oh, I see. In the mid 80s, did you say? Well, maybe there was a different Angal Fuuta in Basse, but I personally cannot remember when I first heard the name in my childhood.
”…Santo Suo has more to do with the landscape, lowland and highland, in Basse the lowland is around the river with the rice fields and Santo su a retreat mostly in the rain season. Thus the
difference between Santo su and Mandingka kunda, Santo su and Mandingka Kunda can’t replace each other.”
Is this therefore how Santo Su got its name? Can we say the same of Brikama – Santo Su? Where is ‘santo’ and where is ‘duuma’ in an area as flat as Basse or Brikama? I certainly did not say that Mandinka Kunda and Santo Su are interchangeable just I would not say that Basse High Level is interchangeable with Basse Toubabou Kunda, if there is any such place.
Regards,
Momodou Baldeh.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2007 : 15:00:11
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Let us do this correctly for once
Lets be adherent, to the nature of our history
With adherence, we can learn something at the least
Let us not allow ourselves be caught up in a valley of no return
Let us do this with decency and intelligence not with scorn and disarray
A people that cannot get its history straight will not get anything straight
We are interrelated, we know that, and advocating anything else is not suitable
I am for a genuine discussion and not petites –ness
Moreover, would not engage in discuss of polarisation
Lets be matured enough to investigate our pass and formulate it comprehensible for our progeny.
ATCHU Á CATCHU KÔ LÉKKÌ... |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 16:54:57
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Please, allow me to say a word concerning the depiction of the history of Basse, which has been an ongoing discussion on Gainako. I am not comfortable with the notion of living posterity to my children and grandchildren to short out rather I prefer to deal with my part here and now, not to strain coming generation(s) concerning unsolved mysteries of my legacy.
Perspective on Basse´s History
I remember the rivalry between football teams in Basse particularly between Manju de Mansajang and Real de Basse. All marches where played in the Mansajangfield. Regardless of the fights, quarrels and qualms after football marches, we would be back and ready to start all over again the next week, business as usual.
Background
According to oral tradition Kabu was founded by Tira Makang a general of Sunjata, he moved West after Sunjatas victory over Sumanguru in the 13th. century. Kabu was a confederation stretching from River Gambia to Rio Corubal in Guinea Bissau. It was under its last king Janke Waali based in Kansala that the rebellion led by Molo Egge supported by the Almamy of Timbo gathered momentum and ended Kabus period of influence. This became the birth of Fuladu with its first king in Alpha Molo Egge around 1867-80s. Egge was the last real king of Fuladu and died in Guinea Bissau in 1931. Mandingkas and Fulas were/are not the only inhabitants of Kabu rather many others in the region. It is unlikely that Basse did not exist until after the birth of Fuladu in the later part of the 1800s. (Sunjata: Bamba Suso and Banna Kanute)
No doubt, the name Basse could uncover a lot about the foundation of the town. The question is what language is Basse, is it Fula, Mandingka or Serehulle. The Fula name Bassal means Basso in Mandingka and suspicions are that it is the same in Serrahulle. What we can understand from that similarity is the existence of a long relationship between these languages. In addition, if different languages exist together a long time they do not only influence each other’s sentence -construction but also each other’s words and meanings. It is not uncommon that all three languages have the same name for the same thing, mango and jabérro are examples of such similarities. Secondly, if Basse is Bassal or Basso then it is unique in the naming system of towns and villages, for no other town or village name is constructed thus or with the same principle in the whole of Fuladu, both East and West.
I am not laying claim to any part of Basse, Kabakama, Koba Kunda, Mansajang, Maneh Kunda and so fort. I do not intend to become an Alkalo nor would I impart a genealogical reference to claim the reliability of my recounting over any others´. Rather much attention would be paid to the fact that most of the history passed on to us be it written, oral tradition or other forms were and are really used as an instrument of upbringing, governance and preservation of social classes and values. At the end of the day, it all comes to one question; what history, whose values and what is in stake for the community and people. The well-known Kenyan writer Ngugi wa Thiong'o summed up the sticky situation in a paper call Europhonism, he wrote:
/---/Language which is the carrier of culture is the ultimate and the most primary means of imagination.
Empire builders have always known that and in trying to shape how the dominated imagined their future they clearly saw the importance of delinking the elites of the dominated communities from their languages and literally transplanting their minds in the languages of the imperial center. /---/ The aim, realized or not, was to turn the elite into beings for others even in their conception of themselves.
/---/Language is of course the most basic of naming systems. With the loss of our languages will come the loss of our entire naming system and every historical intervention no matter how revolutionary will thence be within an European naming system, enhancing its capacities for ill or good. Thus in whatever she or he does, they will be performing their being for the enrichment of the cultural personality of white Europe./---/ Ngugi wa Thiong'o
Europhonism is a mindset that understands the world through European languages (colonial languages) instead of through indigenous languages (African or Indian). The kind of education we archive does not only give us a sense of superiority over our own culture and people but reeds us off our self- pride and self- awareness; it delinks us from our values and transplants us into instruments for the colonisers, beings for others. We need to be mindful of not writing our history from a Europhonic stance but rather from the perspective of the people whose history is been depicted. In my opinion, the sources of the written accounts used as the bases to affirm the claims in the debate have not been scrutinised or critically evaluated but rather taken as undisputable facts.
My emphasis is accuracy in depicting the name of a place as a source of its history. The methodology, the theoretical and analogical perspectives used in depicting not only the name Basse but also Santo Su and Mansajang should be consistent and steadfast. I am not advocating objectivity hence that is of natural science my claim is methodical consistency. By methodical consistency, I mean regularity, critical examination of source, self-critic, selflessness and reflection.
My deviation
Let me say a word about my point of deviation. In this deconstruction, the reasoning behind the name Basse is the focal point, the point of departure and therefore the most important aspect. Besides who found Basse and its rightful claimant(s) there reigns a consensus as to the derivation and depiction of the name (Basse) this is my point of divergence. However, none has explained the derivations of Mansajang Kunda and Santo Su. Complementarily, I would like to draw attention to the implicit idea that if the name Basse is Fula then the founder(s) are also Fulbé, even whereas no evidence presented supports that courageous insinuation.
I intend to elaborate on two aspects in this recounting:
a) to test the reliability (methodical consistency) of the depiction of the name Basse and the interpreted history and
b) to present a possible and consistent explanation of the name, the meaning of Santo su and Mansajang
One would expect methodical consistency in depicting the names Basse, Santa Su, Mansajang and the history behind the names if the overall intention is to uncover history impartially.
On the contrary, the analogy applied by the debating parties is far from methodically consistent since it qualifies Fula in depicting Basse but because Fula does not suffice in depicting Santo Su and Mansajang, we are given trivial explanations consequently indicating a methodical inconsistency. Secondly is not mentioned anywhere that Bassal/basal, basse could also mean the lack of or poverty. This approach did not only deprive us from a full understanding of history but also wipes out the pre-colonial history and ages of symbiotic relationship(s) existing between the different languages and people in Basse and its surroundings. This gives the impression that there was no Basse or its surroundings near and far before colonialism much more a system of governance.
Basse
According to the discussants, basse is the plural form of bassal/basal and the explanation that follows is very similar to bang julo and Banjul (the capital of Gambia). The interesting difference is Banjul takes the singular form of Bang julo whiles Basse takes the plural form of bassal and yet both Basse and Banjul derivate from common nouns. As a rule when a common noun changes to a proper noun, it takes the root form (singular form). The irregularity of having a proper noun take a plural form in Fula is solved by putting a common noun (Sareh, Gallé) which functions as a prefix before the plural form of the name ex. Sareh Basse, Sareh Jawbé, Sreh Hoggo or Gallé Aulubbé, Gallé Bailobbé. For the sake of clarity, let us apply the same principle to Gainako, an occupation (singular form) and Gainakobé its plural form. If we change the later to a proper noun to be the name of a village/town, the correct construction would be to add a common noun prefix to the plural form. Sareh Gainakobé or Gallé Gainakobé. Moreover, that is why the online news-“paper” is call “Gainako” (singular) and not Gainakobé (plural).
In a possible depiction of the name Basse in Mandingka, I would elaborate on two possibilities
i) how the name relates to bassa/basso meaning mat/carpet
ii) the relationship between the name and the river
Basse – how the name relates to bassa/basso.
Basso (common noun) means mat/carpet in Mandingka but conjugated bassa in counting, ex. bassa 1, and bassa 2… The premise is that “a” changes to “e” when bassa, a common noun becomes a name of a place, a proper noun. Basso/bassa is in the root form (singular) and consistent with the principle that when a common noun changes to a proper noun it takes the root form and not the plural form (unless a common noun prefix is present, in Fula).
How do we explain this grammatical exception in basal/bassal and basse? A possible explanation is, it is an original Mandingka name fulanised with time and therefore needs no conjugation. Secondly, for the sake of consistency Mandingka compared to Fula interprets not only Basse but also Santa su and Mansajang.
Baasé Tenda –the relationship between the name and the river.
Literally interpreted Basse Tenda means a freshwater harbour (and/or trading centre). A potential explanation would be to consider the influence River Gambia may have had on the name Basse, which is its main lifeline and main transport route before roads were available. It is common in Gambia that towns, villages and other settlements get their names from the landscape. Names like Fatoto, Baafulloto, Farafenje, Bintang bolong, Mansa Kongko, Sutukoba and Sitanunku are names that derivate from the landscape and vegetation they are located. It is worthwhile to glance into that association in trying to depict Basse.
Baa sé
Baa = River
Sé = Fresh/sweet
Baa sé = Fresh River (fresh/Sweetwater river)
Tenda = A harbour and or trading centre
The River Gambia runs all the way through the country (Gambie Bolongo). It runs from the Futa Jalon highlands, its source, to the Atlantic Ocean. That is why one part of the river is saltwater and the other part freshwater and in between a mixture of salt and freshwater fluctuation depending on the seasons of the year. In the dry season the saltwater moves some kilometres from the Atlantic inwards towards Basse and in the rain season the freshwater pushes outwards towards the Atlantic. In this perception, Baasé means freshwater river and Baasé Tenda, freshwater harbour.
Santo su
I remember my schooldays in Basse we use to argue amongst ourselves whether the correct name is Santa su or Santo su. The major argument against the former is that it is a Europeanized version of Santo su because Santa has no meaning or relation to the locality.
Santo = High/up
Su = Home
A literal interpretation of Santo su means “upper/high home” or home on the highland. Santo- suo describes the landscape on which the home is located. The landscape of Basse consists of low and highland areas. The lowland area surrounding Basse is around the river, behind the Police residence and between Kabakama and Basse, which together constitutes the rice fields surrounding Basse. The highland area starts from the Sami´s Cinema area to the Police residence along the main road passing the Basse health centre. And, from High Level to the main road from Koba Kunda and all the way to Maneh Kunda. Santo su in this context means highland residence (home), a retreat mostly in the rain season when the river flows over the nearby areas.(Waamo) And that’s why Basse has two marketplaces one for the dry season and the other for the rain season
Mansajang
The enquiry here is focused on Mansajang not on Sareh or Kunda.
Mansa = king
Jang = long/tall
Mansajang taken literally, means tall king.
Where does the name come from if the real name of the man is Hoggo? It is not common to name a town or village after someone’s nickname (Mansajang). Literally, Mansajang Kunda in this context means, the residence of the tall king and not the village founded by the tall king or the village owned by the tall king. Tall king is not a name but a characteristic an adjective describing the man. If the tall king as insinuated founded the village, the Kunda would follow the family name, Baldeh Kunda similar to Maneh Kunda, Dampha Kunda and Koba Kunda or alternatively Sareh Hoggo similar to Sareh Bojo and Sareh Alpha. Is it possible that the name hides a very interesting piece of history that is better left alone, because if revealed it would disclose a much deeper relationship than anticipated?
Conclusion
I am of the understanding that a “taken for granted” historical depiction without a solid foundation is not worth passing on to our children. On the other hand, it is our responsibility to pass history on to our children as much as it is our contractual obligation to clarify the difference between historical facts and personal views.
My concern is if the incongruity in the depiction of Basse is due to lack of oral tradition sources, lack of colonial documentation or if it is an intentional deficiency to elude the centre of the analogy from falling and thereby the hypothesis of “bassal” refuted. Alternatively, I would like to assume that the inconsistency is an unconscious default embedded in our education system. Ngugi describes the predicament of the African intellectual thus;
/---/But they are clearly alienated intellects, exiles at home and Abroad, or exiles in search of a place they can truly claim as their own. In the context of the collective social body, they become beings for others, at the very least beings against themselves, against the very soil that gave birth to them. African-language communities pay for intellects which cannot put a single idea, even about agriculture or health or business, or democracy, or finance, into the very languages which gave them birth. Europhonism
Deficiency in our languages has effects beyond not being able to speak them; it affects our sense of history, our sense of reality and our worldview in general. Instead of being for ourselves and for our welfare we become robots programmed in foreign languages and at the very least become beings against ourselves. Therefore, self-critic and reflection is very crucial in depicting and deconstructing our history and to scrutinise all evidence beyond the obvious and to take nothing for granted. Basse, Santo su and Mansajang are best depicted and understood with the help of our languages. It is only then we can depict our history beyond the arrival of the colonialists. However, the ambivalence of not expecting to solve our own section of history without the many sources and documents available is apparent. Basse and its surroundings have a long history connected to Kaabu and beyond.
The deconstruction of the name of a place is very complex especially when record keeping is so infrequent, Africa languages invisible intellectually, politically and forced to assume a kind of intellectual and political death. Therefore, no stones should be left unturned and nothing taken for granted.
I remember one time a fight broke out during a football march between Manju and Real. David (Buba) Baldeh ran home and came back with an axe, which he never used, nonetheless, it was his way of putting an end to the turmoil and he did.
I hope the high spirit and the good intention of educating and be educated keeps burning and that we would see the forest and not the tree.
My best regards
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 15 Aug 2007 17:25:52 |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 19:43:57
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Janko,
very insightful. you must have spent hours of research on this.
Should you desire, you are wecome to forward to Gainako, for wider publicity and to continue the ongoin basse debate at a standstill.
congrats on the piece, one can learn a lot, truly
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 19:58:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalton1
Janko,
very insightful. you must have spent hours of research on this.
Should you desire, you are wecome to forward to Gainako, for wider publicity and to continue the ongoin basse debate at a standstill.
congrats on the piece, one can learn a lot, truly
Thanks Dalton1.
You have all right to foward it there, you don´t have to ask; please |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 21:08:12
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Janko,
You are so generous with your work, just like i used to tell Baba Galleh when I lifted his materials from the Gpost. You know copyright must be given its due respect.
thanks, I dropped it on Gainako's anonymous mail.
thanks again for a constructive and solid historical piece. You guys made wanna be from basse now, just a little jealous i am .
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 21:21:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalton1
Janko,
You are so generous with your work, just like i used to tell Baba Galleh when I lifted his materials from the Gpost. You know copyright must be given its due respect.
thanks, I dropped it on Gainako's anonymous mail.
thanks again for a constructive and solid historical piece. You guys made wanna be from basse now, just a little jealous i am .
Thanks Dalton1,
We have to be able to share such things without thinking about copyright ©. Thank you for your vigilance, keep burning
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2007 : 23:59:14
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Janko,
Special commendation to you for a well deserving and brilliant scholarly exposition. The failure of one generation not having historical facts written does not negate the reality in any way. Your explanation is very much convincing. You would have taken much pains to put piece up this brialliant account. From the look of it, you seem to know more than just what we have seen. On that note, I wish to submit for your continuation of this generous documentation. I can see a whole material emerging for greater future use. Remember it was about Two Thousand (2000) years of history that is being dug to demonstrate Israel as a viable nation. Little bit more work along your current route will surely deliver the true histroy of Basse on the right plates. You have done a real good job by this analysis. I would say , carry it on. |
Karamba |
Edited by - Karamba on 17 Aug 2007 00:17:16 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 01:46:14
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Karamba
Am flatted by your generosity and encouraged by your frankness.
I comprehend this is a challenge for us all, to put it understandably without bias or claim of the final truth, the ultimate but open for refutation and critic. As there are many bits and pieces to put together before we can apprehend clarity in our history.
I am convinced that Basse is better off understood as a metropolitan, a significant economical, political and cultural center for the region (the Guineas, Mali, Senegal, and Sierra Leon) and an important hub for regional connections and communications. In this sense we can follow the different routes to and from Basse with open minds and complexity rather than “a taken for granted perspective”. A broader sense of where we come and whence we are is a guirantee for a better tommorow.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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