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jambo
3300 Posts |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 20:39:27
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I think this sentence is unfair compared to previous sentences. Its a precedence and i think he should appeal. This does not compare with the sentence of Musa Susso; the APRC Memeber of Parliament caught with drugs and now serving his jail term.
4 kilos is definitely a small amount. How about the growers. I think they should go after the big fish and and that will dry up the supply and problem is solved. It will take out the middlemen and even the consumers. Running after middlemen and not getting the big suppliers will only ensure the illegal trade continues in some form.
GET THE GROWERS AND BIG SUPPLIERS AND YOU WILL TAKE OUT THE MIDDLEMEN LIKE THIS LAMIN JAMMEH. THE POLICE ARE GOOD AT CATCHING THE SMALL FISH BUT THE BIG WHALES UNFORTUNATELY CANNOT BE SEEN. IF THEY CAN BE THAT EFFICIENT, IT SHOULD NOT BE VERY HARD TO SEE THE BIG ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.
May be this is the beginning of the effort to get the big ones.
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 20:39:27
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I think this sentence is unfair compared to previous sentences. Its a precedence and i think he should appeal. This does not compare with the sentence of Musa Susso; the APRC Memeber of Parliament caught with drugs and now serving his jail term.
4 kilos is definitely a small amount. How about the growers. I think they should go after the big fish and and that will dry up the supply and problem is solved. It will take out the middlemen and even the consumers. Running after middlemen and not getting the big suppliers will only ensure the illegal trade continues in some form.
GET THE GROWERS AND BIG SUPPLIERS AND YOU WILL TAKE OUT THE MIDDLEMEN LIKE THIS LAMIN JAMMEH. THE POLICE ARE GOOD AT CATCHING THE SMALL FISH BUT THE BIG WHALES UNFORTUNATELY CANNOT BE SEEN. IF THEY CAN BE THAT EFFICIENT, IT SHOULD NOT BE VERY HARD TO SEE THE BIG ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.
May be this is the beginning of the effort to get the big ones.
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 20:44:27
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While i do not intend to enter into any further discussion on this topic, i think the trend has been that newly appointed Magistrates have tried to be tough with sentences but withinn two years(end of probationary appointments), they become as mellow as honey.
Infact they leave for private practice having made a name as "tough" legal persons. Well, what do i know. I am just a 200 pound gorrilla. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 20:44:27
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While i do not intend to enter into any further discussion on this topic, i think the trend has been that newly appointed Magistrates have tried to be tough with sentences but withinn two years(end of probationary appointments), they become as mellow as honey.
Infact they leave for private practice having made a name as "tough" legal persons. Well, what do i know. I am just a 200 pound gorrilla. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 03:49:09
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Sentence/fine way too much in my view. In U.S. we call it "cruel and unusual punishment".
How about this jurisdictional question : crime committed in farafenni , NBD but trial in Brikama ,WD. Is there any trial court in farafenni or anywhere in NBD ? Hey but what do I know either...Konds? |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 03:49:09
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Sentence/fine way too much in my view. In U.S. we call it "cruel and unusual punishment".
How about this jurisdictional question : crime committed in farafenni , NBD but trial in Brikama ,WD. Is there any trial court in farafenni or anywhere in NBD ? Hey but what do I know either...Konds? |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 16:52:03
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Sentence/fine way too much in my view. In U.S. we call it "cruel and unusual punishment".
How about this jurisdictional question : crime committed in farafenni , NBD but trial in Brikama ,WD. Is there any trial court in farafenni or anywhere in NBD ? Hey but what do I know either...Konds?
'Cruel and unusual punishment'. I have never heard or read anything like this before. Anyway, I think the sentence can be appealed on grounds that it is ‘disproportionate’ to the perpetrated crime or that the Magistrate had exceeded his sentencing powers. Magistrate courts don't normally have the kind of sentencing powers that would enable them to fine somebody to the tune of D1Million but in Yaya's Gambia, everything is possible.
I learned about some reforms been undertaken by Joseph Joof, when he was Justice Minister, which extended and increased the powers of magistrates to the extent that they can now try murder, a power tradionally belonging to the High Court. Does this extension of powers and jurisdiction include 'Fine to the tune of a Million Dalasi'? I don't know but if it does, then the magistrate is within his remits, and the discretion should be left to him.
We need to know the powers of a magistrate in the Gambia before we start condemning the sentence. The magistrate was not bound by the precedence of Musa Suso and others case since that sentencing was not delivered by a court of higher authority. It was delivered by a magistrate with equal jurisdictional competence with Magistrate Mbaye. So, the variance in the two sentences is not an issue at all. Appeals are not based on facts [except for jurisdictional facts] but on points of law.
Anyway, I believe that the punishment is disproportionate to the perpetrated crime and thus, can be appealed on that ground.
Thanks
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 05 Jun 2007 17:14:51 |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 16:52:03
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Sentence/fine way too much in my view. In U.S. we call it "cruel and unusual punishment".
How about this jurisdictional question : crime committed in farafenni , NBD but trial in Brikama ,WD. Is there any trial court in farafenni or anywhere in NBD ? Hey but what do I know either...Konds?
'Cruel and unusual punishment'. I have never heard or read anything like this before. Anyway, I think the sentence can be appealed on grounds that it is ‘disproportionate’ to the perpetrated crime or that the Magistrate had exceeded his sentencing powers. Magistrate courts don't normally have the kind of sentencing powers that would enable them to fine somebody to the tune of D1Million but in Yaya's Gambia, everything is possible.
I learned about some reforms been undertaken by Joseph Joof, when he was Justice Minister, which extended and increased the powers of magistrates to the extent that they can now try murder, a power tradionally belonging to the High Court. Does this extension of powers and jurisdiction include 'Fine to the tune of a Million Dalasi'? I don't know but if it does, then the magistrate is within his remits, and the discretion should be left to him.
We need to know the powers of a magistrate in the Gambia before we start condemning the sentence. The magistrate was not bound by the precedence of Musa Suso and others case since that sentencing was not delivered by a court of higher authority. It was delivered by a magistrate with equal jurisdictional competence with Magistrate Mbaye. So, the variance in the two sentences is not an issue at all. Appeals are not based on facts [except for jurisdictional facts] but on points of law.
Anyway, I believe that the punishment is disproportionate to the perpetrated crime and thus, can be appealed on that ground.
Thanks
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 05 Jun 2007 17:14:51 |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 18:36:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
'Cruel and unusual punishment'. I have never heard or read anything like this before. Anyway, I think the sentence can be appealed on grounds that it is ‘disproportionate’ to the perpetrated crime or that the Magistrate had exceeded his sentencing powers. Magistrate courts don't normally have the kind of sentencing powers that would enable them to fine somebody to the tune of D1Million but in Yaya's Gambia, everything is possible.
I learned about some reforms been undertaken by Joseph Joof, when he was Justice Minister, which extended and increased the powers of magistrates to the extent that they can now try murder, a power tradionally belonging to the High Court. Does this extension of powers and jurisdiction include 'Fine to the tune of a Million Dalasi'? I don't know but if it does, then the magistrate is within his remits, and the discretion should be left to him.
We need to know the powers of a magistrate in the Gambia before we start condemning the sentence. The magistrate was not bound by the precedence of Musa Suso and others case since that sentencing was not delivered by a court of higher authority. It was delivered by a magistrate with equal jurisdictional competence with Magistrate Mbaye. So, the variance in the two sentences is not an issue at all. Appeals are not based on facts [except for jurisdictional facts] but on points of law.
Anyway, I believe that the punishment is disproportionate to the perpetrated crime and thus, can be appealed on that ground.
Thanks
Points of correction;
1. The magistrate that took the case of Musa Susso was a senior or I believe a Principal Magistrate. Mr. Mbai is neither of the two.
2. I believe the sentence is way out of range. Did I hear you say that we should not complain about the sentencing? We have to be fair in the way we dispense justice. Musa was caught with more than 4 kilos I believe but was jailed for a lesser period than 10 years that this man is asked to undergo.
Is this the kind of Gambia you are planning for us after Jammeh with all the political outcry we hear from on Bantaba? You have even to an extent accused those who support Halifa as "AYATOLLAHS", a term I must say found very amusing.
3. May be you need to know the powers of Magistrates in the Gambia. I don’t need to because you might be preaching to the Choir. Let me make you understand if you don’t. There are different Classes of Magistrates and they range from Class I to Principal Magistrates and the type of cases they take depends on their experience but also commensurate with their office. Class I magistrates handle basic cases like traffic infractions, cattle rustling, etc.
Magistrates are supervised by the Master of the Supreme Court.
4. If we are not supposed to complain against this sentence, I am not sure if you have the moral authority to complain about the APRC because Yaya has the constitutional powers to act the way he does. He has the powers to give amnesty to April 10 perpetrators and now even the power to suspend parliament indefinitely. Would that not be a good excuse for an APRC supporter to say that you have no right to condemn Jammeh for his actions? If Jammeh is not good enough for you even though he has the powers, then would it not, in the same vein be okay for citizens to complain about dispensation of justice even if such dispensations are within the limits of constituted instruments?
WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE GOOSE IS GOOD FOR THE GANDER.
Merely having the powers is no guarantee that justice will be carried out. That is why in the Gambia Judicial Oversight is handled through the Judicial Service Commission. I am not sure if you ever heard of that either. It’s a parallel office much like the Public Service Commission with the Chief Justice as Chair or any one so delegated to perform in that capacity.
In a democracy, citizens have a right to complain if they feel not satisfied. Sometimes bad laws are enacted in society. One other example for you. Apartheid was a constituted law in South Africa. Was Mandela not wrong in protesting against constituted law if that is what you want us to believe that once a decision is within law then, it’s not ok to complain?
Judging by your posting, i suspect you have some legal training, but may i remind you that i have never seen two opposing lawyers agree on interpretations of statutes. In the United States for example, they are still trying to interprete the Constitution after 211 years since declaration of Independence.
If Lawyers can agree, then citizens can. Until then, we want to exercise our rights to srutinize since those who drafted the laws cannot even agree on the meaning of what they wrote.
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 18:36:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
'Cruel and unusual punishment'. I have never heard or read anything like this before. Anyway, I think the sentence can be appealed on grounds that it is ‘disproportionate’ to the perpetrated crime or that the Magistrate had exceeded his sentencing powers. Magistrate courts don't normally have the kind of sentencing powers that would enable them to fine somebody to the tune of D1Million but in Yaya's Gambia, everything is possible.
I learned about some reforms been undertaken by Joseph Joof, when he was Justice Minister, which extended and increased the powers of magistrates to the extent that they can now try murder, a power tradionally belonging to the High Court. Does this extension of powers and jurisdiction include 'Fine to the tune of a Million Dalasi'? I don't know but if it does, then the magistrate is within his remits, and the discretion should be left to him.
We need to know the powers of a magistrate in the Gambia before we start condemning the sentence. The magistrate was not bound by the precedence of Musa Suso and others case since that sentencing was not delivered by a court of higher authority. It was delivered by a magistrate with equal jurisdictional competence with Magistrate Mbaye. So, the variance in the two sentences is not an issue at all. Appeals are not based on facts [except for jurisdictional facts] but on points of law.
Anyway, I believe that the punishment is disproportionate to the perpetrated crime and thus, can be appealed on that ground.
Thanks
Points of correction;
1. The magistrate that took the case of Musa Susso was a senior or I believe a Principal Magistrate. Mr. Mbai is neither of the two.
2. I believe the sentence is way out of range. Did I hear you say that we should not complain about the sentencing? We have to be fair in the way we dispense justice. Musa was caught with more than 4 kilos I believe but was jailed for a lesser period than 10 years that this man is asked to undergo.
Is this the kind of Gambia you are planning for us after Jammeh with all the political outcry we hear from on Bantaba? You have even to an extent accused those who support Halifa as "AYATOLLAHS", a term I must say found very amusing.
3. May be you need to know the powers of Magistrates in the Gambia. I don’t need to because you might be preaching to the Choir. Let me make you understand if you don’t. There are different Classes of Magistrates and they range from Class I to Principal Magistrates and the type of cases they take depends on their experience but also commensurate with their office. Class I magistrates handle basic cases like traffic infractions, cattle rustling, etc.
Magistrates are supervised by the Master of the Supreme Court.
4. If we are not supposed to complain against this sentence, I am not sure if you have the moral authority to complain about the APRC because Yaya has the constitutional powers to act the way he does. He has the powers to give amnesty to April 10 perpetrators and now even the power to suspend parliament indefinitely. Would that not be a good excuse for an APRC supporter to say that you have no right to condemn Jammeh for his actions? If Jammeh is not good enough for you even though he has the powers, then would it not, in the same vein be okay for citizens to complain about dispensation of justice even if such dispensations are within the limits of constituted instruments?
WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE GOOSE IS GOOD FOR THE GANDER.
Merely having the powers is no guarantee that justice will be carried out. That is why in the Gambia Judicial Oversight is handled through the Judicial Service Commission. I am not sure if you ever heard of that either. It’s a parallel office much like the Public Service Commission with the Chief Justice as Chair or any one so delegated to perform in that capacity.
In a democracy, citizens have a right to complain if they feel not satisfied. Sometimes bad laws are enacted in society. One other example for you. Apartheid was a constituted law in South Africa. Was Mandela not wrong in protesting against constituted law if that is what you want us to believe that once a decision is within law then, it’s not ok to complain?
Judging by your posting, i suspect you have some legal training, but may i remind you that i have never seen two opposing lawyers agree on interpretations of statutes. In the United States for example, they are still trying to interprete the Constitution after 211 years since declaration of Independence.
If Lawyers can agree, then citizens can. Until then, we want to exercise our rights to srutinize since those who drafted the laws cannot even agree on the meaning of what they wrote.
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 23:50:48
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What a stupid sentence for 4 kilos of ganja anybody would of thought he had committed murder for some murderers get let out of prison after 10 years. I agree that Lamin Jammeh should appeal his case after all he is a father of 15 children, and 2 wives to support. The sentence was far too excessive unjust and disportionate to the so called crime.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 06 Jun 2007 23:17:38 |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 23:50:48
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What a stupid sentence for 4 kilos of ganja anybody would of thought he had committed murder for some murderers get let out of prison after 10 years. I agree that Lamin Jammeh should appeal his case after all he is a father of 15 children, and 2 wives to support. The sentence was far too excessive unjust and disportionate to the so called crime.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 06 Jun 2007 23:17:38 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 01:01:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
What a stupid sentence for 4 kilos of ganja anybody would of thought he had committed murder for some murderers get let out of prison after 10 years. I agree that Musa Suso should appeal his case after all he is a father of 15 children, and 3 wives to support. The sentence was far too excessive unjust and disportionate to the so called crime.
Peace
Sister Omega
how did know the number of his children ? wow |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 01:01:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
What a stupid sentence for 4 kilos of ganja anybody would of thought he had committed murder for some murderers get let out of prison after 10 years. I agree that Musa Suso should appeal his case after all he is a father of 15 children, and 3 wives to support. The sentence was far too excessive unjust and disportionate to the so called crime.
Peace
Sister Omega
how did know the number of his children ? wow |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 01:47:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
What a stupid sentence for 4 kilos of ganja anybody would of thought he had committed murder for some murderers get let out of prison after 10 years. I agree that Musa Suso should appeal his case after all he is a father of 15 children, and 3 wives to support. The sentence was far too excessive unjust and disportionate to the so called crime.
Peace
Sister Omega
how did know the number of his children ? wow
Santa
I have long since concluded that Sister is Gambian |
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