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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 01:47:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
What a stupid sentence for 4 kilos of ganja anybody would of thought he had committed murder for some murderers get let out of prison after 10 years. I agree that Musa Suso should appeal his case after all he is a father of 15 children, and 3 wives to support. The sentence was far too excessive unjust and disportionate to the so called crime.
Peace
Sister Omega
how did know the number of his children ? wow
Santa
I have long since concluded that Sister is Gambian |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 07:59:36
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Nyarikangbanna:
"Cruel and unusual Punishment" clause is in the 8th Amendment of the United States constitution. It originates from the English Bill of Rights , I think.
Certainly lower courts(magistrate courts) can overturn each other's (and their own) decisions. It is the Supreme court's decisions they can't overturn.
We are not really talking about the power of the magistrate courts to impose a fine of one million dalasis. What we are talking about is whether the fine and sentence (punishment) is proportionate to the crime committed. One million dalasis and or ten years in prisonment for 4 kg of marijuana doens't seem proportionate to most reasonable people. For example in 1983 the U.S. supreme court ruled that a sentence of life imprisonment without parole for a non-violent crime is "cruel and unusual" and therefore unconstitutional.
Besides the "cruel and Unusual Punishment " clause of the 8th Amendment this case could also be viewed in light of the 14th Amendment's "Equal protection of the laws" clause. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 07:59:36
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Nyarikangbanna:
"Cruel and unusual Punishment" clause is in the 8th Amendment of the United States constitution. It originates from the English Bill of Rights , I think.
Certainly lower courts(magistrate courts) can overturn each other's (and their own) decisions. It is the Supreme court's decisions they can't overturn.
We are not really talking about the power of the magistrate courts to impose a fine of one million dalasis. What we are talking about is whether the fine and sentence (punishment) is proportionate to the crime committed. One million dalasis and or ten years in prisonment for 4 kg of marijuana doens't seem proportionate to most reasonable people. For example in 1983 the U.S. supreme court ruled that a sentence of life imprisonment without parole for a non-violent crime is "cruel and unusual" and therefore unconstitutional.
Besides the "cruel and Unusual Punishment " clause of the 8th Amendment this case could also be viewed in light of the 14th Amendment's "Equal protection of the laws" clause. |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 17:51:07
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Kondorong, Classification of magistrates is only for administrative convinience. That has nothing to do with the application of the law. All magistrate courts have equal powers. Once a magistrate sits to hear a case, regardless of what class he is, he is empowered to exercise the powers of a magistrate court in full. These powers normally provides room for discretion especially when it comes to sentencing and that is why sentencing will sometime vary owing to different magistrates exercising their discretions differently. This is perfectly legal although not always fair,as long as the discretion is not fettered. That is why in the UK, magistrates and judges are provided with sentencing guidlines by the Lord Chancellor's Department to ensure uniformity in the exercise of sentencing powers but that is only an administrative matter although a decision not to follow the guidlines could be susceptible to review on appeal on the grounds of being unreasobable. There is no such control over sentencing powers in the Gambia. That is why sentencings are not uniform. Anyway, I better stop here because I don't want to mix the law and the politics. They are completely different things. Besides, I am not a lawyer.
Can I also add that I have no reason to doubt Magistrate Mbaye's competence and I certainly do not see him as a APRC magistrate. Unless, am certain that he has exceeded his sentencing powers, I shall not be inclined to condemn him.
Thanks
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 17:51:07
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Kondorong, Classification of magistrates is only for administrative convinience. That has nothing to do with the application of the law. All magistrate courts have equal powers. Once a magistrate sits to hear a case, regardless of what class he is, he is empowered to exercise the powers of a magistrate court in full. These powers normally provides room for discretion especially when it comes to sentencing and that is why sentencing will sometime vary owing to different magistrates exercising their discretions differently. This is perfectly legal although not always fair,as long as the discretion is not fettered. That is why in the UK, magistrates and judges are provided with sentencing guidlines by the Lord Chancellor's Department to ensure uniformity in the exercise of sentencing powers but that is only an administrative matter although a decision not to follow the guidlines could be susceptible to review on appeal on the grounds of being unreasobable. There is no such control over sentencing powers in the Gambia. That is why sentencings are not uniform. Anyway, I better stop here because I don't want to mix the law and the politics. They are completely different things. Besides, I am not a lawyer.
Can I also add that I have no reason to doubt Magistrate Mbaye's competence and I certainly do not see him as a APRC magistrate. Unless, am certain that he has exceeded his sentencing powers, I shall not be inclined to condemn him.
Thanks
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 18:57:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
Kondorong, Classification of magistrates is only for administrative convinience. That has nothing to do with the application of the law.
Can I also add that I have no reason to doubt Magistrate Mbaye's competence and I certainly do not see him as a APRC magistrate. Unless, am certain that he has exceeded his sentencing powers, I shall not be inclined to condemn him.
Thanks
You dont need permission to conclude anything on Bantaba. Like Bill Oreilly of Fox News says all the time, you now "entering the no spin zone". Expect a response on Bantaba because this is a no spin zone.
While you have accused others as AYATOLLAHS of Halifa, be cautious that you do not become a Templar of Darboe.
May I also conclude that Magistrate Mbye was in the UK and perhaps someone you at onetime came into contact and therefore "....not inclined to condemn him..." if I may borrow your words. If you are not inclined to condemn him but can for Jammeh, only shows how Gambians as a society have only complained if our side of the bread is not buttered.
In all the years, people have bent backwards on their words once a family member is showered favours but quickly turn opposition when that privileged is taken. The only thing consistent about our society is its inconsistencies in speaking about injustice. Justice in our society is dependent on what we stand to gain as individuals, and not a standard of decency that society MUST guarantee to ALL ITS MEMBERS.
No wonder the government boasts of having 1.5million Gambians to choose from because there is an endless flow of willing candidates ready to answer the call, but who for the most part end up being opposition once the privileges of office are taken.
My I also say that your so called "administrative" classification if true, unfortunately reflects the competence of the magistrate and his ability to take on more important and complex legal cases. Therefore, what seems "administrative" in your judgment is infact nothing less than an indication of judicial dispensation and competence. Tell me, therefore if the alleged "administrative" classification is not in fact a core integer of that process of building capacity which is directly reflected in legal opinions by Magistrates and Judges, which inadvertently, may be grounds for appeals in higher courts or be basis for precedence.
So what seems a simple classification is in fact, central to the principles of fairness.
You see Nyaring, let’s not romanticize with words or hide behind semantics. When Kayjatta says that it was "cruel and unusual", I don’t see anything different from your own term as "disproportionate". Like the mandinka say: BAA BULA JULO, JULO BULA BAA LA.
Furthermore, your rush to judgment insinuating that I may have called Magistrate Mbai as an APRC Magistrate is not only cynical, but unfounded, baseless, and above all nothing less than intellectual sycophancy.
I have never said he was an APRC Member. I challenge you to show me where I indicated it. You see, when we argue, let’s be sincere rather than try to send punches below the belt. Let’s fight on a level field. I am as ready and prepared as a soldier on the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ). Don’t cut corners.
Well I will be surprised to hear from you that he is an APRC Magistrate. Certainly, historical records pointed to some other direction. I know you know that Mbai is not a first generation legal person in his family, but I would hasten to add the Wolof saying which tribe he is, that: BOOYE DINA JURR KHETAH.
Please lets discuss ideas and not individuals. I dont like to talk about people but the ideas and legal implications of decisions. I must say i am very weak on talking about people.
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 18:57:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
Kondorong, Classification of magistrates is only for administrative convinience. That has nothing to do with the application of the law.
Can I also add that I have no reason to doubt Magistrate Mbaye's competence and I certainly do not see him as a APRC magistrate. Unless, am certain that he has exceeded his sentencing powers, I shall not be inclined to condemn him.
Thanks
You dont need permission to conclude anything on Bantaba. Like Bill Oreilly of Fox News says all the time, you now "entering the no spin zone". Expect a response on Bantaba because this is a no spin zone.
While you have accused others as AYATOLLAHS of Halifa, be cautious that you do not become a Templar of Darboe.
May I also conclude that Magistrate Mbye was in the UK and perhaps someone you at onetime came into contact and therefore "....not inclined to condemn him..." if I may borrow your words. If you are not inclined to condemn him but can for Jammeh, only shows how Gambians as a society have only complained if our side of the bread is not buttered.
In all the years, people have bent backwards on their words once a family member is showered favours but quickly turn opposition when that privileged is taken. The only thing consistent about our society is its inconsistencies in speaking about injustice. Justice in our society is dependent on what we stand to gain as individuals, and not a standard of decency that society MUST guarantee to ALL ITS MEMBERS.
No wonder the government boasts of having 1.5million Gambians to choose from because there is an endless flow of willing candidates ready to answer the call, but who for the most part end up being opposition once the privileges of office are taken.
My I also say that your so called "administrative" classification if true, unfortunately reflects the competence of the magistrate and his ability to take on more important and complex legal cases. Therefore, what seems "administrative" in your judgment is infact nothing less than an indication of judicial dispensation and competence. Tell me, therefore if the alleged "administrative" classification is not in fact a core integer of that process of building capacity which is directly reflected in legal opinions by Magistrates and Judges, which inadvertently, may be grounds for appeals in higher courts or be basis for precedence.
So what seems a simple classification is in fact, central to the principles of fairness.
You see Nyaring, let’s not romanticize with words or hide behind semantics. When Kayjatta says that it was "cruel and unusual", I don’t see anything different from your own term as "disproportionate". Like the mandinka say: BAA BULA JULO, JULO BULA BAA LA.
Furthermore, your rush to judgment insinuating that I may have called Magistrate Mbai as an APRC Magistrate is not only cynical, but unfounded, baseless, and above all nothing less than intellectual sycophancy.
I have never said he was an APRC Member. I challenge you to show me where I indicated it. You see, when we argue, let’s be sincere rather than try to send punches below the belt. Let’s fight on a level field. I am as ready and prepared as a soldier on the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ). Don’t cut corners.
Well I will be surprised to hear from you that he is an APRC Magistrate. Certainly, historical records pointed to some other direction. I know you know that Mbai is not a first generation legal person in his family, but I would hasten to add the Wolof saying which tribe he is, that: BOOYE DINA JURR KHETAH.
Please lets discuss ideas and not individuals. I dont like to talk about people but the ideas and legal implications of decisions. I must say i am very weak on talking about people.
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 22:54:47
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I think its important that Magistrates are up-dated with guidelines so that the system becomes more transparent. It is not unusal for some Magistrates to be reading from old guidelines. This magistrate competence needs to be tested therefore Lamin Jammeh needs to launch a vigorous appeal. As Magistrates have an important role in any society they should be monitored to make sure that they are up-to-date with the law and have access to regular training. Lamin Jammeh has been sentence to ten years imprisonment at who's expense? As the major bread winner of his family the sustainable livelihood of his family is at stake. We look at Magistrates for justice to be wise enough to make a fair decision operating within the parameters of the law and using their discretion to come to a solid judgement. This Magistrate has severely brought this honourable role in to disrepute. Therefore Lamin Jammeh's case needs to be brought to a higher court. In this case the law is an ass when you consider that Lai Conteh served only 18 months for emblezzment on a grand scale and Lamin Jammeh gets 10 years for 4 Kilos of Ganja. What folly! A retrial is definitely in order. The role of Magistrate is not to be abused after all a Magistrate is not a demi-God in this case his judgment is severely flawed as reflected in his judgement. It makes one wonder who should be the one standing in the dock!
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 06 Jun 2007 23:23:19 |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 22:54:47
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I think its important that Magistrates are up-dated with guidelines so that the system becomes more transparent. It is not unusal for some Magistrates to be reading from old guidelines. This magistrate competence needs to be tested therefore Lamin Jammeh needs to launch a vigorous appeal. As Magistrates have an important role in any society they should be monitored to make sure that they are up-to-date with the law and have access to regular training. Lamin Jammeh has been sentence to ten years imprisonment at who's expense? As the major bread winner of his family the sustainable livelihood of his family is at stake. We look at Magistrates for justice to be wise enough to make a fair decision operating within the parameters of the law and using their discretion to come to a solid judgement. This Magistrate has severely brought this honourable role in to disrepute. Therefore Lamin Jammeh's case needs to be brought to a higher court. In this case the law is an ass when you consider that Lai Conteh served only 18 months for emblezzment on a grand scale and Lamin Jammeh gets 10 years for 4 Kilos of Ganja. What folly! A retrial is definitely in order. The role of Magistrate is not to be abused after all a Magistrate is not a demi-God in this case his judgment is severely flawed as reflected in his judgement. It makes one wonder who should be the one standing in the dock!
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 06 Jun 2007 23:23:19 |
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Momodou
Denmark
11833 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 23:02:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Therefore Musa Suso's case needs to be brought to a higher court. In this case the law is an ass when you consider that Lai Conteh served only 18 months for emblezzment on agrand scale and Musa Suso gets 10 years for 4 Kilos of Ganja. What folly! A retrial is definitely in order.
Sister Omega, you keep calling the man "Musa Suso" but this person is called Lamin Jammeh.
The article in the Point says:
"Lamin Jammeh, who was found in possession of over four kilos of dope in North Bank Region for the purpose of trafficking, was last week given a heavy sentence by a magistrates’ court in Western Region." |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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Momodou
Denmark
11833 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 23:02:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Therefore Musa Suso's case needs to be brought to a higher court. In this case the law is an ass when you consider that Lai Conteh served only 18 months for emblezzment on agrand scale and Musa Suso gets 10 years for 4 Kilos of Ganja. What folly! A retrial is definitely in order.
Sister Omega, you keep calling the man "Musa Suso" but this person is called Lamin Jammeh.
The article in the Point says:
"Lamin Jammeh, who was found in possession of over four kilos of dope in North Bank Region for the purpose of trafficking, was last week given a heavy sentence by a magistrates’ court in Western Region." |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 23:09:41
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My apologies to any Musa Suso's out there who I may of offended.
Thanks for correcting me Mommodou
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 23:09:41
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My apologies to any Musa Suso's out there who I may of offended.
Thanks for correcting me Mommodou
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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Momodou
Denmark
11833 Posts |
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Momodou
Denmark
11833 Posts |
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