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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
 Posted - 16 May 2007 : 00:35:40
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The case is progressing, butI didnt want to comment on that. U want to ask locals if they had any info.
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2007 : 07:30:31
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I wonder if we do have anyone reading this that is in Portugal?
There is an English man that has been interviewed. I wonder if he is the real offender or a scapegoat? Only time will tell.
Every night when I go to bed I think of that little girl and her family and every morning when I wake up the first thing I do is switch on the news to see if she has been found.
Lets hope for a happy ending and soon. |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2007 : 09:20:59
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I think about little Maddy everyday too and each time I read the news I hope that they have found her alive. It is all very awful and heartbreaking, poor little child!
When things like this happen it reminds me of what a cruel place this world can be to our children with so many psychos on the lose. Scary!
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2007 : 10:53:12
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| While I agree that it's heartbreaking, I can't help but question the intelligence of the parents ... how on earth would you think it ok to leave three children under the age of 4 alone in a hotel room while you merrily go off to have a meal?? And not just on the one occassion .... I'm speechless at the stupidity of it! |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2007 : 11:07:24
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| i read about this when i got back, i too did think the parents should not have left the children alone, better security around the home, my prayers are for her safe return. |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2007 : 12:57:32
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I agree with you MeMe. I think the whole story sounds so strange and I can´t help thinking that the parents themselves might be invloved..
A terrible thing to say but since there have been similar cases before where parents have reported their child missing, gone out in the media pretending to be devastated while they were the ones who murdered they our child!
Let´s just hope it ain´t so this time and that the girl is alive somewhere. I know it´s not good to speculate and judge people this way in advance. I just had a feeling that something is very wrong, especially when the parents don´t seem too stressed. I would be an emotional wreck if something like that happend to my kids, but then again we are all different and react differently.
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Edited by - Babylon on 16 May 2007 13:22:42 |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2007 : 15:09:08
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By end of this case, lot of broken hearts have to be mended. If it turns out the English man (?) emerges innocent, he already complains of his life being destroyed by the exposure. It is hard to believe that he could have had a hand in the matter and then turns around to help as interpreter in the investigations. A little more vigilance from the parents could have averted the situation. Leaving the children within that distance and time span was very high risk in the first place. |
Karamba |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2007 : 15:24:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Karamba
It is hard to believe that he could have had a hand in the matter and then turns around to help as interpreter in the investigations.
Karamba, some murderers like to do this, I think this is why they suspect this man to be guilty. The same happened some years ago in the case of two murdered children, brother and sister, in Germany. Such people think that 'hiding in the light' is safest, and of course they want to know if the police is on to them.
I hope they find the girl alive and unharmed. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2007 : 19:12:48
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Serenata,
That is a sad fact of life. Criminals disguise in many ways. Let us hope the young girl recovers from this safely. |
Karamba |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2007 : 21:49:14
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In the soham murders in Uk, Ian huntley came forward to police as a witness and enjoyed the lime light. He was guilty all along.
The guy in Portugal has an alibi, but it is provided by his mother. So to me this should be discounted. But if he is innocent it is terrible that he has been named and photographed in all the english papers. What happened to innocent till proven guilty?
What makes me uneasy is that his own daughter that heis estranged from looked like Maddie. Someone obviously targeted her.Otherwise why not take the twins too? |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2007 : 21:54:08
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I am shocked by how harshly people are judging the parents.
They have been spoken to by police AND ARE NOT SUSPECTS.
They are a GP and a specialist at Glenfield hospital. Both very intelligent and resourceful people. they have very supportive family.
How can we judge them. We dont see their private moments, and we don't see them not sleeping and not eating and so on. They are Roman Catholic and seem to gain strength from their religion.
I have enormous respect for how they are dealing with this terrible situation. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2007 : 22:15:59
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The issue of whether you should leave children alone is a very difficult and emotional one. We all make judgement calls. On various holidays I have paid someone to come along as 'nanny'. I have paid for my mums flight to come as babysitter. i have paid for my kids to go to kids clubs. I have taken them out with me and Spanish waiters have entertained them. I have taken them out with me and my ex husband and I have take turns at eating and pushing the push chair ( very romantic)!
On odd occasions I have left them when I have felt 100% safe and gone out briefly to eat.
I think the family were on holiday with other adults, so they may have been under pressure to join them? Minus kids? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I wouldnt leave my children in a groundfloor room near a road. If they had been on first floor I would. Dont ask why, its an instinct thing, most crime happens at floor level. In USA I always ask for higher floor.
Also if room or apartment is behind security such as desk staff on reception then to leave children within that is 'ring fenced'. If i was in a secure hotel and my children went to sleep I would be ok to go for a meal in the hotel bar.
All these things are risk assessments and judgement calls.
I dont want to judge the family. If we choose to leave a child then that child should be safe. Noone has the right to abduct.
BUT if I wasnt happy that my children would be secure I would keep them up, take them out to eat with me and then I would go home and read a book whilst they slept. It isnot like UK. europe is child friendly. So take children with you to eat would be my hindsight message. Holidays with children are always a compromise and holidaying with child free friends can put pressure on that.
All the money that family have......I bet they wish they took a nanny for the holiday. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Perhaps it will warn others that we have to be vigilant and if you go on holiday with your children and want some time to be a couple you need to think about how you will achieve that. Nana comes too? Nanny? Paid for local help?
Unless you are in a 100% secure complex then children (especially under 7) shouldnt be left unless there is a listening service and you are contactable within that range.
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2007 : 11:53:12
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Bev, the parents are being judged because they neglected their children ... and that's what it was, plain and simple neglect! If they'd been from a council estate in Newcastle, Glasgow or wherever then all hell would have broken loose ... they'd have been called unfit parents, etc! There is no excuse on this earth for leaving those small children alone! I feel sorry for the little girl and for her siblings as, at some point in the future, they will have to hear from their parents that they too were in danger while the 'adults' went out for a meal ..... how safe and secure will they then feel???? Yes, we all make mistakes and hindsight is indeed marvellous but common sense is something that seems to be sadly lacking in these "both very intelligent and resourceful people", I think you called them?
It is also annoying that there is so much news coverage on this ... what else is happening in the world ... oh, yeah, Sudan, Nigeria, Somalia anyone? Also, poor Ben Needham's mother - what sort of support did she get? Wait a minute, was she part of a 'professional middle-class family' when her little boy went missing on Kos? Obviously not because she got nothing in the way of help (finanical or otherwise!) .... |
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leokat
United Kingdom
123 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2007 : 13:53:09
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quote:
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They are a GP and a specialist at Glenfield hospital. Both very intelligent and resourceful people. they have very supportive family... They are Roman Catholic and seem to gain strength from their religion.
Bev I’m not sure why the fact that the parents are a GP and a hospital specialist etc are in any way material to this case. Harold Shipman was an intelligent and (morbidly) resourceful person. His wife was supportive of him. He murdered hundreds of his patients.
Surely you are not suggesting that the true character of a person can be assessed by their religion, educational attainments, IQ, the job s/he does, or the ability of their wider family to offer support and mobilise a campaign?
Likewise, I do not feel that the fact that the ‘Official Suspect’s’ daughter looks like Maddy need necessarily be sinister. Maybe it is the very fact that Maddy resembled his daughter that prompted him to offer support and do everything he could to help.
The only way this case will be solved is if the investigators concentrate on the facts and do not rely on hearsay, rumour, gossip, speculation, and avoid stereotyping those involved in the case.
As for the rest of us, IMO we should focus on praying for a positive outcome. |
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tapalapa
United Kingdom
202 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2007 : 14:16:18
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Hi everyone, It seems to me that the media have alot to answer for- They have made the whole situation into a circus. They are the ones who are sitting in judgement and coming to conclusions before anyone has been charged or put on trial.
Hindsight- When I first heard about Madelienes disappearance, the first thing I thought was "they do not have paedophiles in Portugal" Maybe as I see Portugal as child friendly and mainly Catholic.
My perception was that these people where from the UK and America ! How naive of me.Paedophiles are very ordinary, clever and manipulative people,I have worked professionally with them in the past.
This situation had also disturbed most of my waking thoughts at the moment.
Yes Leokat, lets all pray for a positive outcome.
Tapalapa
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leokat
United Kingdom
123 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2007 : 14:41:53
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I too have spent much of the time since it was revealed that Maddy had been abducted thinking about her and hoping for her safe return.
However, the longer this whole thing goes on the less I believe there will be a positive outcome. L
Do those of you from the UK remember a little boy called Ben Needham who went missing on the Greek Island of Crete a little over fifteen years ago now? Sadly he has never been found. His mother has only got through the intervening years by resolutely believing that her son was taken by Gypsies and eventually sold on to a childless couple. She comforts herself by thinking that he has had a good and loving upbringing with these people who have no knowledge that he was an abducted child. Her hopes are focussed on the thought that as he turns 18 he will be curious about his origins and eventually, with the help of modern DNA testing, will manage to trace her.
This little boy has never been far from my thoughts over the past years either. I visited Crete a few years ago and found myself looking at every teenage boy (which in reality was quite futile as I’d have had no idea what he’d look like even had I seen him.
Back to Maddy. I’m afraid I side with those who feel that the parents did wrong in repeatedly leaving their three children alone whilst they went off to dine each evening. But I’m not judging them either as people or parents. It is their actions I am judging. They made a mistake and are paying a terrible price for that mistake. They will have to live with the consequences of that action forever more L
Yes Bev it is a judgment call as to whether or not to leave one’s children unattended. However, here in the UK it is also an offence to leave a child under sixteen in a situation where s/he can come to harm. I know you work with young people with special needs so I think I hardly need outline the possible risk factors involved in leaving a child alone, even for the shortest period of time, in a hotel room.
However, not all parents are aware of all the risks involved. I feel it would be very unfortunate if, once this case is either resolved (please God happily) or drops from the top of the media agenda (as the Ben Needham case inevitably did), what happened to poor Maddy is simply forgotten. It is for this reason that I feel there needs to be some condemnation of the actions of her parents and a lot of discussion about how best to protect children in various situations.
I think I’d have felt a whole lot more sympathy towards Maddy’s parents had they publicly acknowledged the fact that maybe they had made a bad judgement call. Like you Bev I have wondered several times since why they did not either take a nanny on holiday with them or take turns with their friends to baby-sit.
Don’t think I’m holding myself up here as any kind of paragon. Firstly to put my own situation in perspective: I am a single parent mother of a 22 year old daughter who has mild learning difficulties and is vulnerable. I am also trained as a Childcare Social Worker and Health and Community Worker.
When my daughter was young (around seven) I managed to loose her in a local park because she ‘decided to get lost to see how it felt!” I eventually found her moments before I was going to call the police. In hindsight I’d left it far too long before making that decision and, had she been abducted by car, she could have been miles away before she was found. What I didn’t need at the time was for people condoning my actions. My true friends were the ones who questioned my actions. I was mortified but after I’d had some time to reflect on what had happened I learned by my mistakes. I set about making my daughter as safe as I could by various means: telling her who was more trustworthy (police officers, older women, women with young children etc), where to go for help (a local shop etc), we also read personal safety books. A few years later when my daughter was about ten I lost her again at a music festival. Immediately she knew to go to the stage management to get herself ‘found’. It transpired that my daughter had difficulty orienting herself and she’s been lost several times since (once notably in boggy ground in the New Forest) but has always managed to be found safely.
My point is that we all learn from experience and sometimes, sadly, the only good thing that can come from a tragedy is for others to learn from someone else’s experience. |
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