 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
jambo
3300 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 14:09:34
|
karamba who are you to advise members of the bantaba to use "simple words and short messages", to over "overcome this and take control of our writing", i never knew it was out of control, yes some members can get carried away with lenthy words, but even in a verbal debate others would do this. if we practice what you want, it would be boring.
what made you make this suggestion. 
i agree with sister omege, while this is not a form of censorship, it could be a form of oppression, writing freely is the result of a free world. |
 |
|
|
Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 14:30:32
|
Jambo,
It appears that the very censorship you preach against is exactly what you want to impose on me and my humble opinion. I am not part of the BANTABA admin nor do I have any authority over anyone. Look at the number of responses. That is to show that some people (even those who condemn) still have some interest. I would only respond to what attracts my interest. Karamba is not behind your keyboard to dictate what you spell wrong or right. I am as free as you are to raise any issue. Only those who feel affected will ever respond. If it is not one of your problems, you might as well ignore everything and live on. I can smell censorship in your ways. "Karamba who are you to tell anyone how to write etc?" I AM ONE PERSON ENTITLED TO MY OPINION. I do not have any authority neither the means or time to dictate anyone. It is part of the beauty of communication that you have spared time to have your say. Thank you very much for your time and disinterest!!! |
Karamba |
|
|
|
Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 16:59:55
|
Hello there!
You don’t have to read this. Follow your heart.
Respect. Let a man be free to talk or write the way he likes. He is not inferior to you or less knowledgeable or crazy or even less divinely well equipped.
This too in a hurry.
I just read Peter Beinart’s essay ”George W. Bush screws John McCain one last time.” in The New Republic on line.
I don’t now if the word SCREW will pass Bantaba censorship of forbidden words. Since the governor of California couldn’t get past either. Not to mention Kunta Kinte’s brother Dick Gregory’s autobiography in which the man was being funny. Check it out:
http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enSE205SE205&q=+Dick+Gregory%27s+autobiography&btnG=S%C3%B6k&meta=
I participate in the Leonenet Forum and have done so since 17th January 2003.
There are archives there and you can join in the conversations and and check ‘em out.
http://umbc7.umbc.edu/~leoneadm/
You may join us, if you will, and meet me there but leave any colonisation or re-colonisation project behind you, because I will not take too kindly to that sort of idea in any language.
If you are reading this, then I hope that I am communicating. You don’t have to read it. It’s not everybody in Stockholm that is my friend, although in my heart I am disposed to loving everyone.
In my opinion there could be a remedial course for reading. It’s often not the writing that’s a problem; it’s reading.
My wife understands me perfectly. Why can’t you?
She’s sleeping soundly. Jetlag – Australia Thailand, Stockholm, back home.
YOU, I mean you,
you’ve got to understand what you read and don’t blame it on the writer/ philosopher/ poet/ or the president.
My homework for the foreseeable future is this reading – and of course if you understand what you read, then it’s reasonable to expect that you are influenced by what you read.
Karamba talks about cooking. He is most probably what he eats.
http://www.google.se/search?rlz=1T4GGLJ_enSE205SE205&hl=sv&q=articles+by+Ted+Belman&btnG=Google-s%C3%B6kning&meta=
I am not going to reach for the dictionary. It’s informative and opinionated straightforward prose.
I know the downtown areas of Freetown, Accra, Port Harcourt, Owerri and Aba, very well and have had no difficulty in communicating with even hardened criminals, academics, wonderful ladies, actors, writers, poets, TV stars, musicians, Painters, other spoken word artists, governors, Police Chiefs and military personnel.
I work with children. I talk to them, I love them all, and they understand me.
I’ve taught English for a number of years in Sierra Leone, in Nigeria, and in Sweden - mostly conversation and of course conversation is an art – that was my second job in Sweden: Advanced Conversation. My first was helping with the printing of English text books Rather Boring.
In my opinion this was a well-written article:
http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2668
.Which does not entitle the Admin or his advisers to transform themselves to lecturing e.g. me on ”How to write”, because I can do anything with words even some Arabic and Sanskrit words. But in writing, we all have a purpose (could be just letting off steam) and of course I am no ”prophet"- so let all wordsmiths and even the more verbally handicapped be tolerant - about common words ( they are mostly common otherwise we would not be able to communicate) but there is no harm in reaching for any dictionary when necessary. We are supposed to get better and better. I reached for the dictionary that rainy season that I spent in the British Council Library and read all the works of Charles Dickens - when I was in Form 3 and to some extent adopted his sense of humour his tendency to undermine by overstating - but that was for a short period only.
There is a culture of words. It’s like music. Perhaps you want to play Ba ba black sheep without interruption and without SEMBENE. That’s OK, only you who can’t play don’t tell D’Gary or Popolipo, Caen Madoka or Dally Kimoko, Pa Joe (Ghana) or Adam Solomon, Donne Robert or Habib Koite, Jimmy Dludlu and Louis Mhlanga are very different from each other and I have learned from all of them. My favourite guitarists are many from Congo Kinshasa and Brazza, Angola, Guinea, Mali, Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Senegal (Baobab) Jamaica, Haiti, Brazil, Zimbabwe, South Africa, USA & Canada, UK ama listening to Cape Verde nowadays
When it comes to the literature of the printed word, I had better shut up or keep quiet.
It’s not the likes of lily sitting on some throne of judgment in her heaven)”Simple sentences; clear and precise words; open and honest thoughts. A good idea and intelligent thinking”/”simple and precise” don’t know which ”flowing sentences are wonderful” she is referring to -probably the sentences that her kids write in school .She goes on:
” Perhaps there's no harm in being clear and using simple and precise words to convey meaning? It helps everyone to understand exactly what one is trying to say.”
TRYING to say?
I’m not trying say. I’m saying EXACTLY WHAT I SAY, WHAT I WANT TO SAY and if those seeds fall on your rocky ground, to tell you the truth, I don’t care. Should I be sorry?
There’s a compass, a time table, and hopefully you have your own destination when you read the Bible (with rabbinical commentaries)
More words from Lily, surely not talking to me ? ”The greatest literary geniuses are just that - literary geniuses. The greatest poetry and prose is full of hidden meanings, twists and turns and is exciting to read - but conversely simple language is not censorship but (sometimes) is merely a tool to allow access to meaning to all.
We can all play games in the ways in which we write and the tongues in which we speak - but do we have to?? ”
I ask: YOU talking to me?
Should I stand up in a Court of Law, the judge wouldn’t tell me that I shouldn’t speak my mind MY WAY and SAY what I want to say - not trying to say, but saying.
Nor is the Caliph of California my teacher or icon, I can communicate directly – I can ask a favour of an unknown His Excellency (e.g. the president of the United States of America) and with real freedom of speech, I can also kick ess like a fiend field rapper – but I’m only being a middle of the road nice guy –still - I must admit a greater fascination with Dylan Thomas than with Amos Tutuola, although I like them both. I tolerate all kinds of modes of self expression – read a novel PIMP - have read everything but have almost not read LITERATURE in 20 years so have some at least 2,000 books (Fiction) on my home shelves waiting for me. And I do discriminate a lot.
I simply cannot read bull. Can’t. Can Not. No need to drink dirty water when you can bless the wine and drink it.
It is admirable that Karamba has taken his adult literacy class so seriously. Am I also in his ambit or under purview in his armpit?
As Karamba made clear here:
” Bread Man, my Dear Countryman,
I have always felt no conflict with any of you good people who space time and space to share your sincere views. In traditional Bantaba setting, we chat and part. I certainly do not feel offended where someone thinks different. It is by this exchange that we discover the best interest beyond self. I am ready to buy into your views if they prove more acceptable to what others offer. Be open as well.”
Well said and done.
” But Bantaba can only be what it is because of memebers who keep the debates going on. A resource is only useful when harnessed.”
Kondorong:
” There must be something to be improved upon. Lets not incarnate EK Sarr.”
And here he must surely be referring to Lakunle (In “The Lion and the Jewel”)
” Did you want to use all the adjectives in the dictionary?
Are you Chief Zebru Daya of Nigeria? ”
I dig this by Ebra:
” You know Jammeh is the president, so I have to be proud of my country leader. Handsome, gentle, calm, compassionate, lovng, caring, trustworthy, loyal,hardworking,visionary, jovial leader.”
And Dbaldeh’s accuracy here:
” To uncle Momodou, we can only say thank you for creating a platform where we can exchange ideas across the globe.”
|
Edited by - Cornelius on 14 Jan 2007 17:07:26 |
|
|
|
Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 17:52:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by Karamba
"I would concentrate on your Gambian topics and leave style to the writers" Cornelius.
As if writing and style style are not Gambian issues. Indeed Gambia is part of the wider universe. What is there for anyone else on planet earth is there for Gambians too. Much more I am not imposing style, spelling or grammar on anyone. Those who read and respond to these postings do so at their own very free will and choice. "I AM HERE NOT TO CHANGE YOUR LAWS" Jesus Christ.
Just because Gambia is West Africa does not mean Gambians can't contribute to development of language. The English language is as English as it is Gambian. Those who share interest and time have the total freedom to discuss about English, Arabic, if you like French. Leopold Sedar Senghore was the only non-French authority of the French language. He alone was not FRENCH and Black too who had authority to discus French and even to add or omit words. Senghore came from Senegal, a country sharing border with Gambia. As matter of interest, anyone can share views about any language. Remember it is all for mankind on earth. When you're dead you can't.
Cornelius, English, any language, every mode and instrument of communication is open to examination by interested Gambians so long as they have time and energy to do so.
Seems to me that you are making a mountain out of the narrow confines of Banatba diversity - a molehill, and we can all talk pidgin or broken or German as a foreign langauge for all I care.
I am used to keeping intellectual company - my wife is certainly one, without being lectured to all the time - by the professors and those who are more than professors.
There are the MITZVOT:
http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enSE205SE205&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=The+Mitzvot&spell=1
Creativity cannot be controlled or hindred by the school teacher types of control and you know Hendrix was not a lecturer or Professer at the Berkerly Schoool of Music
I am not a dilettante when it comes to matters of English language and world literature and this is not exactly a Forum for that. I have a good foundation but am slightly rusty since I deserted that world for special Middle Eastern Studies since 1986. I don’t mean purely academic school studies….I mean real studies: do you understand this:
http://www.israpundit.com/2006/?p=3722
I don't mean totatlly deserted either : If I spent less time here, I'd spend more time on AMos Oz on my way to Jerusalem....
I’m familiar with all of Senghor's published poetry in both the original French and English translations - I like Tchikaya U Tamsi, too - enthused by Gerald Moore who aslo taught me in Ghana. Because of all the French Caribbeans – not to mention Bernadotte King of Sweden, and Napoleon who was so good to the Jews, I’m taken by surprise and I didn’t know that “Leopold Sedar Senghore was the only non-French authority of the French language.” And on that one I wonder what Abiola Irele who was one of my seminar directors would say about that.
http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enSE205SE205&q=Abiola+Irele&btnG=S%C3%B6k&meta=
This was at the time that Ngugi Wa Thiong’o ( then known as James Ngugi was writer in residence – and of course had a few beers with him at every opportunity ( Musa Gaye was at Legon then) - and this was all long before Ngugi’s revolutionary home thoughts about home language as vehicle of not only intellectual but also emotional outburst and communication with the masses.
I wrote a novel, read his "Petals of Blood" and threw my manuscript into an archive. I read afew words from it the other day and was taken by surprise. I'll soon desert your august forum. Don't worry, the Gambia will still be there long after you're gone - If the terrorists don't blow it up.
Have you read Sam Selvon?
For starters I recommend his “Moses Ascending “ which is written in Trinidadian–London Patois.
http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enSE205SE205&q=Sam+Selvon+%3A+%22Moses+Ascending%22&btnG=S%C3%B6k&meta=
Well, yes there are varieties of English and Caliban knows how to curse his master.
I am familiar with the complete Commonwealth range and USA, the Caribbean & Canada. But not about to open up a discussion on that.
I have not criticised the language and style of anyone on Bantaba, but if I don’t understand something, I ask for more clarity or an explanation. That’s a reasonable request. That’s all.
Where would we be without words? Animals?
I don’t like people especially certain ignoramus people who want to Lord it over others, be they Germans or even Iranians who are to tell you the candid truth among my favourite people and I have never noticed such a tendency in any of my Iranian friends – which does not mean that each and everyone of them would approve of you making a certain kind of amorous move towards his sister…..
Duty calls and I off to get some wok vegetables……
|
Edited by - Cornelius on 14 Jan 2007 18:24:04 |
|
|
|
Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 18:14:55
|
Karamba one doesn't need to mention the word censorship to imply it. If the topic was introduced as e.g "Tips on How to Write Short and Simple". Then one would understand that you are sharing writing techniques to improve communication. Therefore it couldn't really imply you are trying back door censorship. I don't see anything wrong with offering writing tips but I do have a problem with comments that may inhibit others from participating in the Bantaba because they feel their writing ability is not up to scratch
Generally when someone doesn't understand what someone else is talking about they ask questions. I agree with you that simplification does clarify issues. However this is eventually reached in the process of the course of debate or discussion.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
|
|
|
toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 18:42:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Karamba one doesn't need to mention the word censorship to imply it. If the topic was introduced as e.g "Tips on How to Write Short and Simple". Then one would understand that you are sharing writing techniques to improve communication. Therefore it couldn't really imply you are trying back door censorship. I don't see anything wrong with offering writing tips but I do have a problem with comments that may inhibit others from participating in the Bantaba because they feel their writing ability is not up to scratch
Generally when someone doesn't understand what someone else is talking about they ask questions. I agree with you that simplification does clarify issues. However this is eventually reached in the process of the course of debate or discussion.
Peace
Sister Omega
[blue]
Yes............Could be,.......... or maybe not.............,?
Karamba help me with this one!
|
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
|
|
|
|
Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 19:08:38
|
CENSORSHIP, LECTURES, HOW TO etc.
Get it clear. For one to impose a will over people, you must first have the authority in the first place. From start it was made in all clear terms that Karamba is not and claims not being an authority over Bantaba. I am not claiming to lecture anyone. Like you are all free to raise any issue, this is just one issue. We like it or not, all of us make mistakes in both speech and written communication. I am simply stating that is a fact I recognise and believe others do. If there are perfect ones among you who do not wish to share frank and fair opinion on this issue you are harming nobody. I am confident that till the end of time, mankind will be prone to error. That is why even computers recognise errors. "I AM NOT HERE TO CHANGE YOUR LAWS"
Why is anyone bothered when all is OK for you. I belong to a breed of learners and there are many like me who want to learn how others solve problems of communication in diverse ways. If I was Bantaba admin, I would have no desire to DICTATE what people think and write. Since I am not Bantaba admin, it is not possible for me do impose censorship. Go back to the original posting if you still think there is reason to suggest the author wishes to impose censorship. I am prepared to admit there is an error on my part should anything be construde that censorship is implied. It is people like you Cornelius blowing the sensation of it out of proportion. Those who think they share common problems of communication are free to exchange those good views and some of us can learn from them. I AM NO LECTURER, NO DICTATOR, or in any way wanting to Censor. |
Karamba |
|
|
|
Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 19:51:15
|
Actually Cornelius, no, I wasn't talking to you directly - why would I be? I enjoy reading what you have to say and wish I had more time to follow up all of the links you give us for I love to learn. I was just responding to Karamba's original post and now he seems to be taking a lot of stick for a straightforward idea!
Personally, I don't believe in censorship - unless what's published is harmful or vitriolic (I haven't experienced this on Bantaba - so this is NOT a comment about bantaba but about censorship in general!)
I love reading and writing and all forms of debate. Sometimes, however, I do think simple is best!
|
|
|
|
Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 20:04:36
|
Karamba I disagree with your view. That's my prerogative. You'll just have to get over it!
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
|
|
|
Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 20:41:05
|
Sister Omega,
I respect your right to disagree. I am not seeking to censor anyone. What is there you don't agree? Is this another censorship? It is said about dictators that they (dictators) despise dictatorship. But when they have a hand to dictate, they dictate. On Bantaba is already installed the facility to correct text before posting. That was not done by me. Is that another latent plot to imply censorship? I am not sure how anyone can be offended by another person sharing an observation!! |
Karamba |
|
|
|
MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 20:59:07
|
Karamba, Sis, Conni et al, please lets move ahead this is truly MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING. Our plate is full of issues we need to trash out. You would be amazed probably as to the number of authoritative people who follow this bantaba to be enlightened. You are all intelligent people who i believe are first and foremost interested to move the Gambia and the world forwards. These exchanges will delay us.
PLEASE LETS MOVE ON. |
madiss |
|
|
|
Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 21:01:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by Karamba
CENSORSHIP, LECTURES, HOW TO etc.
Get it clear. For one to impose a will over people, you must first have the authority in the first place. From start it was made in all clear terms that Karamba is not and claims not being an authority over Bantaba. I am not claiming to lecture anyone. Like you are all free to raise any issue, this is just one issue. We like it or not, all of us make mistakes in both speech and written communication. I am simply stating that is a fact I recognise and believe others do. If there are perfect ones among you who do not wish to share frank and fair opinion on this issue you are harming nobody. I am confident that till the end of time, mankind will be prone to error. That is why even computers recognise errors. "I AM NOT HERE TO CHANGE YOUR LAWS"
Why is anyone bothered when all is OK for you. I belong to a breed of learners and there are many like me who want to learn how others solve problems of communication in diverse ways. If I was Bantaba admin, I would have no desire to DICTATE what people think and write. Since I am not Bantaba admin, it is not possible for me do impose censorship. Go back to the original posting if you still think there is reason to suggest the author wishes to impose censorship. I am prepared to admit there is an error on my part should anything be construde that censorship is implied. It is people like you Cornelius blowing the sensation of it out of proportion. Those who think they share common problems of communication are free to exchange those good views and some of us can learn from them. I AM NO LECTURER, NO DICTATOR, or in any way wanting to Censor.
I wish I could blow like Bird and Trane.
Look I know that you are some sort of computer Guru, but answer me, can your computers write poetry? ´
”Cornelius blowing the sensation of it out of proportion”?
Now that's sounds like some Arab hyperbole which is an essential feature of modern Arab oratory and poetry. Muctarr Mustapha came under its sway.
Kindly show me where I was blowing it or “the sensation of it” out of proportion. You are the one who wants to start a remedial course on “How to write simple and effective” – my own course would - if I were being paid to do it - would be on “How to write SIMPLY and EFFECTIVELY” –or even how to woo Mary and get a way with it, but I see that you belong to the Kennedy School and he read much much faster than a page a minute.
If it has been your ambition to foist any of your Baobab English rules on us, simply because you believe that you yourself are communicating so simple and effectively, and leading your followers to the Bastille at Kanilai on the anti-Jammeh front then to be honest – & I can’t be less than that, learn rule number one and it shall be a rule for you when it comes to truthfulness Karambie, the President Kennedy of Bantaba: rule number one: “Thou shalt not exaggerate." And there’s a Jewish proverb that “A half-truth is a whole lie.” Senghor is perhaps your idol and perhaps that’s why you are guilty of exaggeration when without batting an eyelid you wrote in clear and in bold, clear and simple English, that
“Leopold Sedar Senghore was the only non-French authority of the French language.”
I’m not going to get into any kind of discussion with you, but suffice it to say that the French Language has been developing on this planet for quite some time, before Léopold Sédar Senghor arrived in Jaol, in Senegal or finally in La France in 1926.
True he wrote Chants d’Ombre in 1945 whilst suffering at the hands of the Nazis who detained him in a prison camp – different prison camps between 1939 and 1945 – and he’s lucky that he was not executed during those terrible times - my first cousin, Father Edward Hamelberg CSSP another Francophone who also spoke Portuguese was a Catholic priest in France during that period. He passed away in France in 1989.
http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enSE205SE205&q=Leopold+S%C3%A9dar+Senghor++%28English&btnG=S%C3%B6k&meta=
But lets be clear about Senghor and without exaggeration either, Senghor was no French equivalent of Pushkin – as you well know.
http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enSE205SE205&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Pushkin&spell=1
Some of the cynics have joked about Senghor being married to his white woman and singing about the black one.
As you know, I’m no racist – either.
Here’s an essay that I hope you will read and enjoy and enjoy reading:
Poetics of Anticolonialism
http://www.blackradicalcongress.org/poetics.htm
Good luck with your writing course I also read “Pedagogy of the Oppressed” before I arrived in Port Harcourt.
http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enSE205SE205&q=Pedagogy+of+the+Oppressed&btnG=S%C3%B6k&meta=
The links are supposed to be educational, not vanity.
|
|
|
|
Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 21:19:47
|
Karamba,Thanks to Momodou we have an improved website with the preview Reply button and Edit button. This along with other improvements implemented by our Admin Bantaba's forum has tremendously improved compared, to our yellow simple posting board. That I now recall with fondness. karamba I don't regard these new functions in the forum as censorship. They are tools we use to make our contributions more efficient and effective when conveying our views.
Writing style is a different issue and I think it's up to the individual contributor to decide on his or her own style, and for the Reader to choose to read which thread he or she chooses too. I think I've made myself clear on what I think about this issue.
Peace
Sister Omega
|
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 14 Jan 2007 21:24:38 |
|
|
|
toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 21:26:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by MADIBA
Karamba, Sis, Conni et al, please lets move ahead this is truly MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING.
PLEASE LETS MOVE ON.
HERE HERE!!!! |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
|
|
|
|
Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 21:44:20
|
Cornelius,
Are you OK. You seem warmed up for whatever reason I don't know. All language is the property of its users. To all of you who disagreed and the rest who reasoned along, many thanks for your time. I have learnt much from you and that is worth the while. For now, I would like to go by the wise advice of Madiba and later supported by Toubab that we move on. Chill and cheer up !!! |
Karamba |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
