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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 20:24:42
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Sister
I agree that Winnie should be president. She did not live in exile like Thabo Mbeki. She fought on the ground. I think the ANC men were scared of her charisma and fame. She stood by her husband through dificult times.
Infact the first reading glass mandela wore when he read his speech just after his release belongs to Winnie. If you see the pictures, they were over sized ones. Winnie gave mandela the first set of eyes into freedom.
Thabo Mbeki was in Zimbabawe sheltered by Mugabe when he was head of the Free Africa Radio and head of communication propaganda. History is not fair to many people in post apartheid south africa. Go Winnie Go. She was the face of Mandela in Prison and kept the ANC together.
She was accused in a death of some sort of a boy etc. There will awyas be casualties in a war |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 20:39:25
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she would have won if she stood against Mbeki. that thing is , of all the evidence for deaths during Apatheid hers surfaced more than any.
she was 'convicted' of kipnapping a youth who was alledged spying for the apatheid governemt. there is no evidence that she did it, but people associated with her did it claiming to have acted under her orders. more people probably died from this spying activity if its true.
unfortunately the courts, did not show the same will to prosecute more relevant and important crimes. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 21:07:33
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I would like to see Winie in the spot light of Soth African politics. But the Mandinkas say: NING TULUNG DIYATA, IKA NYINA TULUNG BONDI LAL LA.(When the dance festival is successful, people always forget about the initial organisers
In the villages, the drummers are led to the village square by children whilst adults dress. The drummers warm up and fine tune their insturment with the children's dance. Once the adults come, the children become the casualties and are driven from the ring. Winnie is a sacrificial lamb. She sacrificed family for all south africa. Imagine not living with your partner for 27 years. The psycological impact alone is enough to turn even angels. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 08:17:10
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In 1997 Winnie Mandela was put infront of the TRC. They concluded ' she was aware of, and in some cases probably took part in murders, abdutions and assualts by the Mandela United Football Club - her body guards at the time.
Nelson Mandela divorced her to put clean water between him and her activities!
Africa needs strong, moral, noncorrupt leaders. I don't think she is a good role model. She may be a strong women (thug?!) but that isnot enough alone. You need a strong moral compass to guide a nation. She doesnt have that. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 08:23:49
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njucks I agree Margaret Thatcher is guilty of prolonging aparteid and her son benefited from this aswell as the UK nation. Also any white person that lived in South Africa at the time condoned the system just by being there. Most decent white people wouldnt step on south africa soil whilst black people were denied the vote and so on.
One day I would love to visit South Africa, it is a beautiful country I hear. |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 12:53:38
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
In 1997 Winnie Mandela was put infront of the TRC. They concluded ' she was aware of, and in some cases probably took part in murders, abdutions and assualts by the Mandela United Football Club - her body guards at the time.
Nelson Mandela divorced her to put clean water between him and her activities!
Africa needs strong, moral, noncorrupt leaders. I don't think she is a good role model. She may be a strong women (thug?!) but that isnot enough alone. You need a strong moral compass to guide a nation. She doesnt have that.
Bev,
I hope you were in South Africa when both White and Black women demonstrated for Winne. This was just after her sentece. There are many discrapencies we are not awear of we who are not South Africans. You hear of different stories of complot.She is a hero in Sweto. During my first visit in year 2000, people in Sweto told us that she could close the hole area and not let in nobody. I am not saying that she is totally inocent. She must have known some of the things going on. Still she is loved by many South Africans. |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 16:57:28
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SHE IS NOT KNOWINN TO ONLY SAs BUT TO WHOLE AFRICANS &
SHE IS MOHTER TO ALL FREEDOM LOVING POEPLE
SHE IS THE LEADER OF AFRICAN WOMEN
ROLIHLAHLA DALIBHUNGA MADELLA WILL NOT BE IF NOT OF YOUR BRAVED HEART
( AS MADIBA HIMSELF ONCE SAID)
THE AGEL OF ALL DEPRIVED PEOPLE
OH MOTHER OF ZENANI+ZINDZI WHAT THE HELL YOU BEE GONE TROUGH! UNLIKE EVELY.
(THE FIRST WIFE OF MADIBA,I AM NOT OFFENDING OR CRITICISING YOU!)
WHO WAS MUCH MORE INTERESTED OF CHENGING ROLIHLAHUNGAS RELIGION! THAN BEEN LIKE YOU WITH LILIAN NGOYI, FLORENCE MATOMELA, & FRANCES BAARD+SO ON.
YOU BEEN BORNED TO YOUR PARENTS AS UNWANTED CHILD BUT BEARED TO ALL AFRICAN NATIONS!
YOUR OWN FAMILYS SPECIALY YOUR BROTHER+AND FRIENDS WERE ALMOST CHOPING YOU WHEN THEY HEARD THAT
YOU ARE GOING TO MARRIAGE TO A MAN THAT HAS BEEN ALLREADY AFFIANCED TO A POLITICS.
YOU ARE THE REAL UMKHONTO WE SIZWE!
WE LOVE YOU NOMZAMO ZANIEWE WINNIFRED MADIKIZIELA.
LONG LIFE NOBANDLS
quote:
Originally posted by Alhassan
quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
In 1997 Winnie Mandela was put infront of the TRC. They concluded ' she was aware of, and in some cases probably took part in murders, abdutions and assualts by the Mandela United Football Club - her body guards at the time.
Nelson Mandela divorced her to put clean water between him and her activities!
Africa needs strong, moral, noncorrupt leaders. I don't think she is a good role model. She may be a strong women (thug?!) but that isnot enough alone. You need a strong moral compass to guide a nation. She doesnt have that.
Bev,
I hope you were in South Africa when both White and Black women demonstrated for Winne. This was just after her sentece. There are many discrapencies we are not awear of we who are not South Africans. You hear of different stories of complot.She is a hero in Sweto. During my first visit in year 2000, people in Sweto told us that she could close the hole area and not let in nobody. I am not saying that she is totally inocent. She must have known some of the things going on. Still she is loved by many South Africans.
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Edited by - mbay on 02 Nov 2006 17:06:24 |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 18:13:05
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It is true, war takes its toll, and there was a war in South Africa. I regarded the accusations against Winnie Mandela as part of the numerous attempts of the Apartheid regime to divide the ANC supporters.
As Madiba was in prison he could not have any proof about her alleged guilt. But whether he was convinced that she was guilty or not - holding on to her would have damaged his reputation. At that time the nation needed him badly as a strong, integrative leader, and Mandela was always the one to sacrifice his (and his family's) personal interests for more important matters. This is what makes him a great personality. I understand his decision which says nothing about Winnie's real guilt, and regarding the bestiality of the Apartheid regime I would even forgive her if she had failed. For me, she is as heroic (I hate this pathetic word but know no better one) as Mandela.
For Botha, I wish him an interesting afterlife - in the Chinese sense of the word. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 18:14:14
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I have never been to South Africa, so I cant comment from personal experience, only from BBC news! I wouldnt consider going to South Africa when aparteid was in place, and then since then I have got involved in Gambia. One day I would love to go for a holiday, but I am still uncomfortable with being white in a country that has had such a difficult history. I have no time for white south Africans at all. I find them extremely 'superior' even to other white people. LOL! This is probably prejudice and racist of me, but after many years of running a small hotel in York I can say they were our most difficult, rude and demanding custmers, much worse than Americans!  |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 18:24:35
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One persons freedom fighter is another persons terrorist.
Sometimes history gets revised at a later date to make someone a hero or heroine who has done terrible deeds in the past.
We should never forget the terrible things done on both sides in all disputes through history. Some will be called wars, some conflicts, some civil wars. Basically one side against another for whatever reason. It can make good people do bad things in extreme circumstances.To do terrible things as an act of self defence is one thing, but to proactively do bad things is indefencable.
Murder is never excusable, that is why I am a pacifist.
The IRA for example murdered many innocent people in their fight against the British government. I prefer the attitude of Gandhi and Martin Luther King.
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 18:40:36
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Bev, one of my English teachers was a white South African, a sensationally ignorant person. I think she was not really bad, just stupid and - as a defect caused by her sociocultural background - absolutely unable to see even the most obvious. She tried to tell us that Apartheid was the best for Blacks and Whites alike. At the same time I met a black South African, one of my friends' uncle. He told us what Apartheid was really about. This teacher had a bit of a rough time in our class... |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 18:51:06
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Glad to hear it! How does someone so ignorant get to be a teacher? It makes me SO MAD!!! |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 18:59:24
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| I think it may be the older white south Africans who are like this, but I know from experience that the youth (well the ones Ive met) arnt like this at all. They always say the same thing that "Nelson Mandela is the best thing that ever happened to South Africa" and I agree. He is a living icon, has the heart of a lion - and the most amazing thing of all, bares no grudges and never speaks of hate. He was even gracious when Bota died - that speaks volumes about this great man. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 19:01:31
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| Yes, this is interesting - how could she become a teacher? Maybe it was just because they wanted to have a native speaker. At least it was ignorance from both sides. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 19:04:14
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quote:
Originally posted by kisley
He was even gracious when Bota died - that speaks volumes about this great man.
True! He makes me feel ashamed.
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