| Author |
 Topic  |
|
kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 21:44:43
|
There you go. In fact there are many leakages. Alkalos need to be paid 3000.00 for their signature on the sale of the land which is not taxed by the state and sometimes they can ask for more than 5000.00 for their signature.
The middlemen who get the buyers are paid 10% of the cost of the land and they don’t declare incomes whilst poor drivers on D500.00 pay their taxes.
There are a lot of factors, which are hiking the prices and those imbalances need government intervention. No wonder alkaloship issues are life and death positions. It has become more lucrative as an Alkalo than being a local government minister job. The problem with Sukuta and Sanchaba Sulay Jobe about alkaloship comes to mind.
I don’t know what benefits civil servants have. A transport allowance of D150.00 a month can only go for a week. How do they get to work for the remaining three weeks? 1x6 is dead, no loan schemes, average bank loans are 21% interest and on top of it all, you never know if you will have your job by 4.00pm.
You are right that the land is ancestral but there seems to be some unwritten alliance with recognition from the state. However, if such lands should turn to commercial property, then there should be controls. Unfortunately, the transition form traditional to commercial is not well regulated. Today, even the forest is considered traditional land, which is not true. Traditional land extends to only land that is being farmed by the community. A virgin forest should not become a traditional land because; the so-called owners invested nothing in them.
May be farmers are turning their lands into residential plots because their peanuts are yet to be paid for. Well in such situations, no one can blame them
Farmlands are now being divided into residential plots, which is a direct threat to agricultural production. Those who have the means, buy many plots only to resell high. Its ok in a free market, but it has made us more dependent on imports because farmlands are almost non-existent in the kombos.
Well they have become smart by giving out acres to important people. How did you think Manlafi was charged with encroaching on the president's land and had his day in court? An alkalo will, on average sign at least two land deals giving him a daily income of 6000.00. But i am not sure if that is properly invested.
Personally, its a matter for those charged with responsibilities to see beyond personal pockets and protect the land for future generations. I personally went to Tanje to look for a plot but was taken inside a forest as being a family property. I asked the man what rights he has to a virgin forest. You can’t even get through with a bicycle. We walked inside the forest. However after a few months, the forest is gone. People are felling trees and with time we will regret it. In Baddibu, there are hardly any trees left. Firewood is very scare and kombo in 50 years will suffer a similar fate.
I wish Yoro Bawol can be moved to the kombos so that our rice fields will be turned into residential plots. Tallingding is a better example of a rice field turned residential. But during the rains, many places are inaccessible. The Bakoteh Bridge is now overwhelmed with houses extending all the way to Wellingara and Tabokoto blocking a natural waterway, which empties into the sea. The blocked ways have made good mosquito breeding grounds. Whilst some are laughing all the way to the bank, in effect it has put strain on not only agricultural production, but also an efficient health delivery system.
We have to start to approach the land issue as holistic rather than as unrelated problems.
|
 |
|
|
kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 21:48:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by kobo
To clarify on the envy point is based on the resolutions to return home and start your own business venture and work over a number of years to maintain its momentum of survival in Gambian economic and political conditions. Thats a real challenge and any one who can make a success story in setting a successful business enterprise under those climate; is inspirational and deserved to be envied.
However Kondorong you have valid points on affordability. But even when Government working with Social Security Housing Finance Schemes under various projects e.g Brushubi, many Gambians have been allocated land but are stock to construct a good building. Some have taken loans by mortgage of their title deeds to almost D150K but cout not finish their standard houses with the amenities they need for a modern house. Its policy, economics and market forces at play here.
You are right.
Brusubi phase one was sold for 47000.00 per plot(18mx25m). Today, similar plots with no paved roads or electricity or water are being sold for D185,000.00 by the state near old yundum. Unfortunately they have set the stage for price hikes. |
|
|
|
gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 22:08:50
|
The market for land in tourist areas is an international market and therefore has nothing to do with local salaries and what local people can afford.
It is all to do with what outsiders can afford and are prepared to pay, and to insiders this often seems silly money. A down side of this is that it often makes housing unaffordable to local people.
Also it is a volotile market and can change when local conditions change.
In the uk there are several areas (cornwall, devon, yorkshire dales etc) where local people cant afford house prices because of people buying second homes as investments or holiday homes.
In Gambia there seems to be a bit of a land rush at the moment. I dont blame individuals for making as much as they can from it.
But if they sell family land they should be investing the money carefully. If they just fritter it away on daily expenses they are selling their future generations short.
Over time land and property are good investments. My advice to Gambians that can afford to would be to hold tight for the moment. The land will be worth even more a few years on, especially if they are near the coastal road.
I am still looking to invest in or near gunjur if anyone has any contacts.Ideally I would like some land big enough to build a traditional Gambian house with only ground level building and space for a bantaba and some vegetables and gardens. About 50 x 50 I have been told is what I need. I want easy walking to the beach. I dont want to rip anyone off, but dont want to be ried off either.
A fair price for a good piece of land. That is a fair deal for everyone. |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 22:19:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
You are right.
Brusubi phase one was sold for 47000.00 per plot(18mx25m). Today, similar plots with no paved roads or electricity or water are being sold for D185,000.00 by the state near old yundum. Unfortunately they have set the stage for price hikes.
Kondorong you undervalue Phase I. Principal was D55,000 per plot I reckoned. That was over five years ago from SSHFC targeted for those employed and paying rents. |
|
|
|
kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 00:17:04
|
| There are different plot sizes 18mx25, 20mx25m and i think 25mx25m. The smallest plot was 47,000.00 and the largest i think was around the price you quoted. I am told that Brusubi phase one now cost around 400,000.00 if you are lucky to find an empty plot to be sold. |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 00:26:35
|
That shows rate of development on infrastructues including housing and buildings have outpaced average Gambian standards in earnings and affordability to make ends meet.
Therefore the conservative estimates of D500k to D750k is realistic for building a good modern house. |
|
|
|
kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 00:29:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
The market for land in tourist areas is an international market and therefore has nothing to do with local salaries and what local people can afford.
It is all to do with what outsiders can afford and are prepared to pay, and to insiders this often seems silly money. A down side of this is that it often makes housing unaffordable to local people.
Also it is a volotile market and can change when local conditions change.
In the uk there are several areas (cornwall, devon, yorkshire dales etc) where local people cant afford house prices because of people buying second homes as investments or holiday homes.
In Gambia there seems to be a bit of a land rush at the moment. I dont blame individuals for making as much as they can from it.
But if they sell family land they should be investing the money carefully. If they just fritter it away on daily expenses they are selling their future generations short.
Over time land and property are good investments. My advice to Gambians that can afford to would be to hold tight for the moment. The land will be worth even more a few years on, especially if they are near the coastal road.
I am still looking to invest in or near gunjur if anyone has any contacts.Ideally I would like some land big enough to build a traditional Gambian house with only ground level building and space for a bantaba and some vegetables and gardens. About 50 x 50 I have been told is what I need. I want easy walking to the beach. I dont want to rip anyone off, but dont want to be ried off either.
A fair price for a good piece of land. That is a fair deal for everyone.
Its sad that in our country there is an international market which pushes its citizens out. No wonder even descent Gambians trying to walk on the beach and enjoying the scenery are called Bumpsters. This is the guilt you have when you walk on the beach as though we are not supposed to enjoy.
A situation where parts of the country are only accessible to outsiders is a disaster |
|
|
|
njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 00:51:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
You are right that the land is ancestral but there seems to be some unwritten alliance with recognition from the state. However, if such lands should turn to commercial property, then there should be controls. Unfortunately, the transition form traditional to commercial is not well regulated. Today, even the forest is considered traditional land, which is not true. Traditional land extends to only land that is being farmed by the community. A virgin forest should not become a traditional land because; the so-called owners invested nothing in them.
well you may have a point. but i think land ownership is very important and we should leave the customary law to continue as it is. it is only when you transfer it from customary to private ownership that i think it has to be registered with the government. the customary system has worked for centuries even before the portugese landed!!!!
some villages are older than the Republic of The Gambia. this thing we call '' The Gambia'' cannot impose its will on anyone. that is why the state always has to legislate to own land. like declaring the TDA in the 1970s or the Kombo State lands Act, only after compensating the rightful owners!
regarding forests ofcourse the forest are within some local ownershhip. if not within the land of a villge then atleast within a chiefdom or something bigger. however conservation and proecting heritage should be done with locals involved not imposed on them.it wouldn't work i guess. some areas have become community forests in association with the locals to protect the biodiversity.
this land madness is only in the kombos so far but remember we are now 1,500,000 gambians up from only 250,000 in 1950. the pressure on land also has to do with urbanisation.at some point we will have to build appartment blocks as not everyone will be able to own a plot
perhaps then we will be discussing the price of flats along the coast overlooking the Atlantic in Bijilo going for D10m!!! |
|
|
|
kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 01:07:45
|
The Gambia is not a monster but a sovereign state. So a sovereign state making a legislation is not an imposition. Let me qualify it. It depends on how the legislation is done.
Any way ask people of Brufut about what imposition means. Its written right on their faces.
Unfortunately, that Gambia is currently imposing. May be we should wait for a second Gambia.
The customary system is now threatened when people have been made alkalos who traditionally cannot be. Ask people of Munyagen and many other places. If that can happen, forget about traditional systems beacuse the cornerstone is alkaloships and chieftancies. Today, these positions are being threatened at will.
Infact there was an alkalo crises in Foni when a group of refugees who stayed for sometime wanted to head the village. The refugee camp used to be on the the south bank road before Kalagi and the junction of Wassadu. The refugees were economically better off. Eventually, the camp had to be closed. |
|
|
|
gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 08:29:33
|
It was my understanding that the alkalo was some sort of hereditary system within a family in the village. But now I have heard of villages where the alkalo has been a political appointment by the government. This causes problems and can split the village into pro and anti groups. This is nt good for the traditional way of decision making as often government interest goes above local interest now.
Kondorong I agree with you 100% that ANY Gambian should not feel guilty about walking on his own land, the beach and so on. It is his home land. I wouldnt like to visit Gambia if I just stayed with other tourists and never met local people.
In Uk tourist areas various schemes are being tried to create affordable housing for locals. For example if you worked at the coast perhaps some apartments (low level) could be built on a budget and sold to workers at almost cost price? This would have to be a government funded project similar to the council house building that went on in uk between the wars.
In the future for young people to buy land or apartments the banking system will need to be extended. More mortgages need to be available and more credit unions. Most people in Uk dont have the cash to pay for property up front. They pay for the property over 20 or 25 years. This is what they work for all their lives.
Of course for this system to work people need to have reliable income, ie a reliable job. Once again we could back to the government. If economic growth can be achieved, people can have reliable jobs, mortgages can be repayed reliably and ordinary people can fund buying a property.
At the moment this all seems a dream to many ordinary Gambians. But until 1950/60 it did to most working class people in UK. Most people were in council houses or shared houses with family or rented form private landlords. To have your own home was a middle class dream. |
|
|
|
serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 14:23:05
|
For me there is no question that the whole Gambian coast will be in the hands of foreigners if the government fails to regulate the market. The Netherlands, for example, have stopped the sellout of their coastal villages to wealthy foreigners - and the Netherlands are not a poor country at all. If the government does not take action now, Gambians should be ready to be thrown out of their own land (Brufut!!) and treated like bumsters if they want to walk on their own beaches. Colonial times are back...
The neoliberal hymns of praise to the 'market' have long since proved to be the straight way to hell for poorer countries. |
|
|
|
LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 15:39:03
|
| Poor Gambians who can't afford to rent or BUY houses to live in will end up in sutukoba or Yorobaol soon. |
There is no god but Allah |
|
|
|
kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 18:40:01
|
Lemontime
You are really funny. Yoro Bawol will welcome any one who cannot afford to live in the Kombos. Sutu Konding is also ready to receive Gambians.
On a more serious note, we will soon begin to see shantytowns evolve around the kombos where poor people are forced to forage with resultant increase in crime. Similar urban sprouts have become known in many African countries and Gambia will certainly head in that direction. The Bakoteh dumpsite, which is now overridden by scavengers, is an indication to policy planners about the level of poverty increase and what needs to be done.
I don’t believe in a surprise. A surprise is nothing more than an unattended problem or an inability to decode an emerging issue. Being proactive is the best recipe to curb a surprise.
It is injustice if you cannot afford land in your own country. If we open up the land to the highest bidder and agree that our land is fair game for any one who pays the highest price, then it should be fair game to have a living wage. To not recognize that, is to sell our sovereignty. I have seen the effects of such policies where the poor are pushed out of the town. Harare is a typical example where average Zimbabweans cannot afford to rent a house. It’s an expatriate city habited mostly by employees of international organization with hard currency.
In the evenings bus loads of workers leave the city and the city becomes quiet once again as though it was a ghost town. I once thought there was a strike going on with mass exodus of citizens to the shantytowns that evolved around the city.
In the case of the Gambia places like Mariama Kunda are perfect sanctuaries for low wage earners but today land grabbing has overtaken such villages. Many barbed wired fences are sprouting everywhere. You will be surprised to find fences within forests and the ecological damage will be only be known in few years. Free market is very good, but its based on certain economic parameters which unfortunately are limited in the Gambia. The invisible hand of the state must always be working to protect the weak. That is why there are laws on mergers, currency speculation, price gauging, anti trust legislation, even in the so-called capitalist countries.
I don’t think we have land shortage. The problem is poor planning. People who have no training in urban planning are seen with tapelines demarcating boundaries with blatant disregard to access. A classic example in the heart of serrekunda is the access road by London Drug Store at Bambo, which just ends up in someone’s house.
Unfortunately, no parks, playing grounds, praying grounds, space for schools are even thought of. Today many churches are found in residential homes where pastors rent out a house and turn them into a place of worship. Such public goods should be allocated descent land enough to serve a large community. We need money, but we need to develop our spiritual being too.
The Serrekunda mosque (new) I was made to understand is built on private property. The market cannot expand and there is no empty land from Tabokoto to Serrekunda where you can build a school. In fact from Lamin to Serrekunda there is no descent car park.
Vendors who need space to sell produce overtook the only one in serrekunda. I am amazed how drivers maneuver within a sea of pedestrians in the serrekunda market, and almost ever five minutes, some one is danger of being run over by a GELEGELEH. YET NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE POOR MARKET WOMEN WHO WORK ON THE GARDENS ENDING UP WITH THEIR PRODUCE ON THEIR HEADS. YET KMC HAS THE AUDACITY TO TAX THEM DAILY. They might as well change the name “market duty” to “Tax By Walking Around.”
As the University evolves, we need descent space to house all the faculties and even student dorms. Right now, students wander the whole of the kombo St. Marys to attend classes.
Consequently, its putting pressure for school buses that we might not even need in the large numbers if space was avaible to build schools within communities.
|
|
|
|
kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 18:52:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by serenata
For me there is no question that the whole Gambian coast will be in the hands of foreigners if the government fails to regulate the market. The Netherlands, for example, have stopped the sellout of their coastal villages to wealthy foreigners - and the Netherlands are not a poor country at all. If the government does not take action now, Gambians should be ready to be thrown out of their own land (Brufut!!) and treated like bumsters if they want to walk on their own beaches. Colonial times are back...
The neoliberal hymns of praise to the 'market' have long since proved to be the straight way to hell for poorer countries.
The structural adjustment prescription of the 1980s for developing countries has made no positive impacts. Poor countries continue to be poorer.
One good thing it brought was to lay off many people and then provided the means for such governments to service their loans now that they had a lower wage bill. It was like robbing peter to pay paul
But unfortunately, it reduced purchasing power as a result of no or little incomes. Worker retraining was a mess. In the Gambia 20% of the civil servants were laid off and far less than 1000 people ever had help from IBAS( Indegeneous Business Advisory Service) set up to help the transition from unemployment to gainful and marketable skills to find work again. |
|
|
|
gambia6005
Canada
79 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 20:28:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by serenata
For me there is no question that the whole Gambian coast will be in the hands of foreigners if the government fails to regulate the market. The Netherlands, for example, have stopped the sellout of their coastal villages to wealthy foreigners - and the Netherlands are not a poor country at all. If the government does not take action now, Gambians should be ready to be thrown out of their own land (Brufut!!) and treated like bumsters if they want to walk on their own beaches. Colonial times are back
why don't you gambians do something abouth it throw the dutchman out of "dutchtown brusubi"all they do is colonialize gambians and you are there sheap workslaves and they rape your children(see my postings of the terredeshommes rapport
gambia...the smiling coast but whome is smiling not the gambians
or do they?????? |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Topic Locked
