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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 16:31:13
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I found this letter quite interesting,what confused me is that,so far I am aware,I maybe wrong of course but the "trades" that are mentioned also relate generally to the occupations of tribes in Gambia, so is the caste system essentially the same as a tribal system? Any one with a more in depth knowledge want to have a discussion?
http://dailynews.gm/africa/gambia/article/kabafoo-kombo-is-innocent-caste-system-in-the-gambia
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 00:30:15
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I HAVE READ FROM ARTICLE ABOUT "FREEBORN" INCLUDING OTHER CASTS AND WRITER CLAIMING TO BE "FREEBORN" AND NOT OF "LOWER CAST"; WHICH RIDICULE ME IN ASKING FOR CRITERIA, CHARACTERISTICS, QUALIFICATIONS, PROFILING, THE SOCIAL NORMS AND WHAT IT TAKES TO BE "FREEBORN" AND EACH OF OTHER CASTS; BECAUSE WE ARE DIFFERENT HUMAN BEINGS  |
Edited by - kobo on 01 May 2012 00:34:43 |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 11:34:53
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Kobo, I found this odd as well, but taking a general view from the perspective of trades and occupations I think that there is a great similarity between Caste and Tribe,the writer of the article seems to have put a lot of mud in clear waters making it difficult ,for me at least, to understand what he is talking about.I must also say that I find your response difficult to fathom, can you explain in "simple  " terms for us ignorant folks. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 01 May 2012 11:36:21 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 00:18:52
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
... trades and occupations I think that there is a great similarity between Caste and Tribe,the writer of the article seems to have put a lot of mud in clear waters ...
I wished the writer would have lifted his eyes and see the moral implication of “forroya”, honesty.
The writer has misunderstood the term Forro, hence all men/women are born free. The cobbler, blacksmiths, griot, laowbbe, jula, numo , mansa are all forro.
I agree that there is a widespread misunderstanding of the meaning of the term; Forro. To set the record right is to scrutinize such informal usage of the term and enlighten the younger ones about its formal meaning.
The blurred resemblance between Caste and Tribe clearly indicate they are terms that do not explain the social reality but a relativist perspective that sees similarity where it does not exist. An occupation does not follow family names or tribe; hence anybody and everyone can learn a trade.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 01:42:23
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GAINAKO NEWS WITH Exclusive Interview with Prof. Dr. Abdoulie Saine on his New Book "Culture and Customs of Gambia" MAY BE USEFUL OR RELEVANT IN DISCOURSE OF TOPIC FOR ("TRIBES OR CASTE"), TRADITIONS AND NATURE OF THE SOCIETY
Janko You are too nice and diplomatic to rubbish this ridiculous brainwashing article; fit for the bin; being in 21st century
"IF YOU BELIEF IN SOMETHING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU WILL SUFFER!"
How can you claim to be "freeborn" (through what criteria) and other human beings not "freeborn"? Also promoting and legitimisation of a system of oppression and degradation of others through some sort of caste system; developed by praise singers and charlatans? Isn't it interesting
As far I can remember life through our parents in Gambia is about hard work, survival, hospitality, good morals and blessings from elders. Rural life mainly for farming communities and less economic activities but urban life with many trades and vibrant economic economic activities
Africa free yourself from mental slavery, foolish pride, superstition, degradation, poverty, famine, disenfranchisement, political wars, abuse or bullying tactic and under-development (amongst others)
Writer lost the plot and attempt to use Islam as a shield but from elite or intellectual point of view, what basically makes sense is understanding let me quote D.A.Jawo;
quote:
Fundamental "Human Rights (my emphasis) all over the world,” which to the lay person, was (is) quite straight forward"
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Edited by - kobo on 09 May 2012 02:25:43 |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 13:01:48
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KOBO,you write,
"IF YOU BELIEF IN SOMETHING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU WILL SUFFER!"
My point exactly,this is why I asked others to explain, I found that Janko's post went some way in doing that,Kobo, for me your post offered little explaination on that which the " anonymous writer" wanted to say,you rubbished his words from the start when you wrote in your response "this ridiculous brainwashing article; fit for the bin; being in 21st century" however for me it was not simple enough, not being Gambian and consequently being engrained with that culture.
I have no insight into "Forro",I will read your links,hopefully I can find a "simple" answer there,this will take me a little time,so bear with me, |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 14:48:50
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Janko,help me here, I looked up "Forro" references included a Brazilian dance,and ethnic language spoken by some people in Guinea Bissau,what did you mean when you used that word?, in English please
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 17:11:33
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Kobo, thanks for that ,I did listen to the interview with the learned prof. however unfortunately for me,I was not able to gain any specific information from it in relation to this topic,it was much too slanted towards selling the book,which would be very interesting I am sure to students studying African cultures for university degrees etc.
One thing that I did get from listening was the tolerant culture of Gambia had been brought about by inter-tribal marriages from many tribes who came from all over Africa but mainly from West Africa to settle in Gambia thereby creating tolerance,a term he used was "mosaic" interesting and explains a lot.
quote:
Originally posted by kobo
GAINAKO NEWS WITH Exclusive Interview with Prof. Dr. Abdoulie Saine on his New Book "Culture and Customs of Gambia" MAY BE USEFUL OR RELEVANT IN DISCOURSE OF TOPIC FOR ("TRIBES OR CASTE"), TRADITIONS AND NATURE OF THE SOCIETY
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 23:40:14
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
Janko,help me here, I looked up "Forro" references included a Brazilian dance,and ethnic language spoken by some people in Guinea Bissau,what did you mean when you used that word?, in English please
toubab, to shorten the long story
It is very difficult to make an unbiased translation from Mandingka to English. Secondly, it has led to many inconsistencies, especially when dealing with such delicate topics or terms.The best example of such misunderstanding is the article in question. The writer interprets Foro to be freeborn (whatever that is), in English.
The English words that may be substituted or given as equivalent or meaning may have a different element than their Mandingka counterparts. So to do justice to both language and topic I will give you the root of the meaning of the word.(in my usage)
The origin of the word Fo - ro
Fo = say
Ro = to
Fo-ro = to say
The moral implication can be explained as “being your words”, to say it as it is, in other words the opposite of lying. “Standing for your words”, have the guts to have your say, the freedom of saying as you both see and feel it.
Foroya (adjective) = a moral character – a virtue attached to integrity, being truthful, straightforward –oppose to lying, cheating, "Foroya is the best policy." |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 23:55:16
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| OK,perhaps in vernacular English, "Honesty is the best policy" ,would that be right ? |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 00:46:22
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Snippet forwarded from The daily news publication to start this topic came from its author Suntou Touray (Santangfara) and rivalry between him and "Prince" Bubacarr Sankanu demoralising each other, personal vendettas and settling political scores; that started since Coalition for change started (with abuse & bullying Ndey Tapha Sosseh heading it) and Amadou Janneh's fate
Topic should not missed these links because its where it is where it originated and being related, assist us to decipher background information, better understand the mind sets, conflicts, certain myths, sensibilities, temperaments and related issues as follows
FREEDOM NEWS WITH PRINCE BUBACARR SANKANU;
More "CASTE or TRIBALISM"mentality or ideology to make this topic more interesting with these links (courtesy Maafanta.com and Kibaaro on-line news);
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Edited by - kobo on 16 May 2012 23:28:06 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2012 : 23:53:03
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Bro Kobo,
you are stalling the discussion with your Palava-links.
Hence, they strengthen the misconception of the terms we are trying to do justice. Lets see beyond the horizon and not stamp on the same place forever ... we have no choice but to grow-up. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Momodou
Denmark
11634 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2012 : 10:57:51
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I belive very often our social professions are translated wrongly by scholars. Therefore, language groups became tribes and professions became castes.
I agree with Janko's arguments above. Occupation has no boundry to family name or language group. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2012 : 11:55:42
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Janko Thanks for your fantastic inputs and interesting comments especially the last one you felt we need "to grow-up". Will come back to you later
RELATED BANTABA TOPIC;
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Edited by - kobo on 21 May 2012 19:53:05 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2012 : 23:07:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Momodou
I belive very often our social professions are translated wrongly by scholars. Therefore, language groups became tribes and professions became castes.
I agree with Janko's arguments above. Occupation has no boundry to family name or language group.
Interestingly, that kind of confusion or misconception comes from the mindset produced by the westernized-education-system, that N’gugi calls Europhonism.
Musa N’gom once said, ”they are just part of the picture, they are not the picture”.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 14:54:35
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ªwesternized-education-system, that N�gugi calls Europhonismª what on earth is that Janko ? yu appear to be making comments to others inplying that ªthey strengthen the misconception of the terms we are trying to do justice. Letªs see beyond the horizon and not stamp on the same place forever ... we have no choice but to grow-up.ª from m standpoint I am very confused !!! not annoyed I just cannot understand where everyone is coming from.
There is a saying, ªthe moving finger writes and having writ moves onª I am on a strange computer here,so some symbolds do not display correctly. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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