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kassma
334 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 10:02:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
First I must say that Sami is not a common language in Sweden (Norway or Finland, where Sami people live as well)but a very small minority language which most people in Sweden do not understand. I am not a historian in African languages or other languages so Iīm not the one to talk about what was going on with the tribes before white man came with his languages. But are you against the colonial languages or what? Whatīs wrong with English? Donīt you want to be a part of the World where everybody can understand you? I would sure look funny if I went to the US and spoke my native language just because Iīm so hardheaded and proud of my culture that it makes me look stupid and ignorant to others. And you may call common sense a white thing(?) or whatever, but I know common sense is used by many in this world who just simply follow their gut feeling of what is right or wrong. It may sound simple, but we humans are pretty simple and similar beings after all when it comes to the very basic way of living -regardless to skin colour, cultural backgound, class or education. Living in a world where people can communicate with eachother, understanding eachother is the key to succes and less conflicts like war, racism and so on. The situation in Ivory Coast has also directly something to do with racism and discrimination that is caused by tribalism. You can not deny what happend in Rwanda between the tribes hutus and tutsis, can you? Check the situation between the clans in Somalia. Whatīs happening in Congo? One is better than the other, the fights continue that way. If you canīt see the problems then Iīm afraid you are living in denial. You must face the problems first before you can solve them. And one good way to try and solve something is to use your "Common Sense", which I hope all people have more or less. Many times the ideas from a good man with common sense makes alot more sense than the ones from some (nutty)professor. Ones native tongue is very important of course, but how does the Africans think about eachother from different tribes? Do they all live in perfect harmony according to you? I can see right here in Sweden some conflicts between Gambians, the Wolofs who say Mandingos are like this and that and vice versa. One is better than the other, ainīt it so? Tell me something, how can Africa with itīs continues civil wars become independent and united if the people in one country cant come together and unite first? I think I just heard the saying "United we stand, divided we fall" somewhere in the back of my head... And it all starts with a language and communication. (and common sense)...
so you're basically saying that whites don't compare eachother, that french and canadian don't consider themselves better than the british. so the english don't consider themselves better than the irish. i don't know if you are aware of this, but most african countries are pretty young. it is absolutely rare, for new countries, especially with the diversity that God blessed us with, to not have civil wars and conflict. although you seem to desire that us africans remain subservient towards whites, we simply refuse to. as i mentioned before, the great thing about Gambia is that there's a lot of interaction between different ethnic groups, so having one of our national languages as our official language is really not a big deal. i for one, am against colonial languages. most of them have negative connotation towards African people. you really do yourself a disservice by spewing your rubbish, any african who knows their history easily notices your euro divide-&-conquer techniques. |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 10:17:40
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
Would a good compromise, or starting point be to speak mother tongue in Primary school with english as a second language, Then in secondary school, when different groups come together more, have english as the main language for teaching through. I am STILL concerned that in secondary school you could end up with 'gangs' and superior groups if one Africa language is chosen as a language of choice. Also good knowledge of english is useful for internet, business and further studies. Of course as an English person I see seaking english as a good thing. In Africa it had more negative history as the language of the colonials.
Another issue is the curriculum in the schools. It should be relevant to the pupil. So you start from what the pupil already knows. EG History, local African history, Geography, learn about the village, Literature, retell traditional stories.
Macbeth??? I am not sure what place that has. SOME place for literature scholars as a knowledge of shakespeare is good. His themes are relevant to all mankind. BUT at what age??? I would say 14..15.... There are alot more other things to learn first.
We have this debate in England too: Education for its own sake, education for skills for life, relevance to the child. An education system that serves the needs of every child is the aim. It is difficult to achieve and expensive. But thoughtful, questioning teachers is a good start. Good teacher education is important.
Sorry I have gone WAY off the point.
gambiabev, i must say, as a former child of the american school systems i think from my experience and the experiences of my african friends, african children should not be thought in english. it is not a concidence that me and most of my friends lean towards the science and math area. its hard to understand and master subjects such as literature and creative writing, which are heavily based on interpretation, if a student is not within the culture and therefore cannot fully understand the subject. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 10:33:01
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That is interesting.....
Education in england is a middle class experience...so alot of working class children are also at a disadvantage because the language and culture of the classroom is different to that of the home.
Jane Austen, Shakespeare etc..... doesnt really speak to ordinary white working class kids either.
The gap between working class african/american culture and middle class mainstream america must be a wide bridge to gap. |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 13:47:55
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Kassma, I already said I learned something new from Janko on this. So why you wanna bring it all up again? Give me a break!
"although you seem to desire that us africans remain subserviant towards whites" ???
Where tha hell did you get that from? What do you know about me that gives you the right to make such comments?
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 14:49:58
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| Not only did I learn from Janko but also from Sister Omega. I suggest you read her topic Nation building vs brain draining What say you? and you will see I made a total u-turn on these questions about african languages. So thereīs really no need for you to make any harsh comments about me. I am here to learn more like most people. We learn from eachother. Have a nice day! |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 02:26:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
First I must say that Sami is not a common language in Sweden (Norway or Finland, where Sami people live as well)but a very small minority language which most people in Sweden do not understand. I am not a historian in African languages or other languages so Iīm not the one to talk about what was going on with the tribes before white man came with his languages. But are you against the colonial languages or what? Whatīs wrong with English? Donīt you want to be a part of the World where everybody can understand you? I would sure look funny if I went to the US and spoke my native language just because Iīm so hardheaded and proud of my culture that it makes me look stupid and ignorant to others. And you may call common sense a white thing(?) or whatever, but I know common sense is used by many in this world who just simply follow their gut feeling of what is right or wrong. It may sound simple, but we humans are pretty simple and similar beings after all when it comes to the very basic way of living -regardless to skin colour, cultural backgound, class or education. Living in a world where people can communicate with eachother, understanding eachother is the key to succes and less conflicts like war, racism and so on. The situation in Ivory Coast has also directly something to do with racism and discrimination that is caused by tribalism. You can not deny what happend in Rwanda between the tribes hutus and tutsis, can you? Check the situation between the clans in Somalia. Whatīs happening in Congo? One is better than the other, the fights continue that way. If you canīt see the problems then Iīm afraid you are living in denial. You must face the problems first before you can solve them. And one good way to try and solve something is to use your "Common Sense", which I hope all people have more or less. Many times the ideas from a good man with common sense makes alot more sense than the ones from some (nutty)professor. Ones native tongue is very important of course, but how does the Africans think about eachother from different tribes? Do they all live in perfect harmony according to you? I can see right here in Sweden some conflicts between Gambians, the Wolofs who say Mandingos are like this and that and vice versa. One is better than the other, ainīt it so? Tell me something, how can Africa with itīs continues civil wars become independent and united if the people in one country cant come together and unite first? I think I just heard the saying "United we stand, divided we fall" somewhere in the back of my head... And it all starts with a language and communication. (and common sense)...
those comments are what led me to believe that instead of wanting Africans to advance you enjoy our position now. i am not anti-white, but i am pro-Africa. and anyone who makes negative comments like this can't have the best interest of Africans. i know its hard to be positive sometimes, but you were not only negative but also condescending. like i said, just be beware of how you say things. bye |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 12:19:58
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So Kassma, do you think drawing quick conclusions and make personal judgements about people, based on just a few negative lines of a posting, is a good thing or what?
I think that is very simple minded, a weakness that some people should try and work harder on.
When you judge someone without knowing that person, that really makes you look worse.
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2006 : 10:32:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
So Kassma, do you think drawing quick conclusions and make personal judgements about people, based on just a few negative lines of a posting, is a good thing or what?
I think that is very simple minded, a weakness that some people should try and work harder on.
When you judge someone without knowing that person, that really makes you look worse.
r u kidding me, the comments i made about you came from simply judging your statements. if everything i said summed you up as a person, well then... that's sad. anyways, i thought it was ridulous how you came in this tread, where Gambians are having a serious discussion on how we can improve ourselves, you tried to discourage us by your negative comments, basically shutting everything down and you think i should not be annoyed. i guess its good that you changed your mind about things but at the end of the day, i don't care and it doesn't make a different. what would have made a difference was the serious discussion about language and development |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2006 : 17:38:30
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Que Iīm glad to see some proof here (not that itīs new to me but...)that education doesnīt necessarily stand in the way for ignorance and ignorant attitudes. Sucks for you tho. |
Edited by - Babylon on 05 Mar 2006 17:49:05 |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 07:35:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
Que Iīm glad to see some proof here (not that itīs new to me but...)that education doesnīt necessarily stand in the way for ignorance and ignorant attitudes. Sucks for you tho.
QUE? me oyiste. how old are you, 11. the only ignorance on this thread is you and your eurocentric opinions: "But are you against the colonial languages or what? Whatīs wrong with English? Donīt you want to be a part of the World where everybody can understand you? I would sure look funny if I went to the US and spoke my native language just because Iīm so hardheaded and proud of my culture that it makes me look stupid and ignorant to others" that, right there,is pure ignorance, so don't tell me bu!!sh*t like i'm ignorant when in the 21st century you are the one who considers others speaking their own language a "stupid" and "ignorant" thing to do. no, i do not give a f#@k whether you changed your mind or not, i'm sick of toubab like you that think you have the final word on everything, especially sh#t that has nothing to do with you. sucks for you that this African doesn't give a sh%t about what you say or think. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 08:17:45
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WOW! What alot of anger......
Kassma are you sure you dont need therapy for anger management rather than bantaba?!
Seriously, it is good to see you have SO much passion for the debate.........but why does it have to get SO personal?
If I remember rightly you have been educated in the states (?) So you have had the benefits and difficulties of being taught in 'english'.
Is your life better or worse for that opportunity? What job do you do now? Are you still in USA?
As a teacher when children start school we are trained to start from where the child is at...ie if the child was mandinka you would teach in mandinka....... In each village the primary and nursery schools could simply teach in the majority language.
At secondary school I still feel that a good grasp of english is essential in todays world AS IT IS. You would be short changing your young people if they left school knowing no english. The world of ICT is a big employer world wide and that is MAINLY a world of english speaking people. Tourism in Gambia is going to get bigger and SOME knowledge of english is very valuable there too. Also if peole want to do further studies in europe English is the key to that.
Also at secondary school, where different groups from different villages come together english can be a unifying language. IF Gambia had ONE native language I would say teach all subjects in that language and have complusory english lessons. BUT it doesnt, it has many, so at seconday school I feel english is the best choice to teach through. You may think Mandinka is as that is the Majority language....but would that allienate other pupils that arent Mandinka more than english...I am not sure. It is very important to keep unity for the larger picture in the whole country..not just education.
By the way, I dont think Africans speaking African languages are ignorant.......I think most Gambians are incredibly skilled at languages, often speaking several.....compared to me with my english and a pathetic school girl french!
I am NOT eurocentric, but I am a pragmatist.....I dont think we will change the world to the ideal in the next few decades.....it is something to aim to over a long period of time. SO as a teacher it is my job to equip pupils for the world AS IT IS NOW. |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 08:26:50
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| i'm not trying to get personal but i've never seen such blatant disrespect like this. as a white person, how can you come to a Gambian forum, where Gambians are having a serious discussion about something very important, and basically talk sh%t. i thought it was very disrespectful what she said and that's why i had to set her straight. i've been in the states long enough to recognize racist attitudes and people and i don't tolerate it at all ( millions of racists are in interracial relationships, that doesn't prove anything). its amazing how a few statements can reveal about a person. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 08:35:37
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Ok...I respect your right to your views.......Perhaps just express them with less heat?! |
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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 10:41:00
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
At secondary school I still feel that a good grasp of english is essential in todays world AS IT IS. You would be short changing your young people if they left school knowing no english. The world of ICT is a big employer world wide and that is MAINLY a world of english speaking people. Tourism in Gambia is going to get bigger and SOME knowledge of english is very valuable there too. Also if peole want to do further studies in europe English is the key to that.
Also at secondary school, where different groups from different villages come together english can be a unifying language. IF Gambia had ONE native language I would say teach all subjects in that language and have complusory english lessons. BUT it doesnt, it has many, so at seconday school I feel english is the best choice to teach through. You may think Mandinka is as that is the Majority language....but would that allienate other pupils that arent Mandinka more than english...I am not sure. It is very important to keep unity for the larger picture in the whole country..not just education.
I think we all can agree that English is the world language.
Now, other countries in Europe have their own language.Their whole time in school they are being taught in their country's language.And of course English is learnt on the side.
Countries in Africa should teach in their own way, own languages, why do they HAVE to have English as a classroom language?We don't do that in Europe, we are strong enough to be able to have our own language.But Africa, for whatever reason, should not be allowed to keep theirs?Because Africa is poor?Or why else?I don't see the logic.Most Europeans can get by with the little English they learn in school, and if they want, they are free to study it more.
I still believe that Africans are just as intelligent as everybody else, so why can't they have English as a subject?They will be just as capable to learn it on the side as we are.
Gambiabev, your posting is a nice idea, but I am strongly against Africa having to follow the West all the time, it is a huge continent, that should be powerful and independent.Not copying us in everything and trying to look up to us.We should be looking up to them, we could learn a lot.
But maybe your idea would benefit Africans because they still depend on the West or look for help, so it would be an advantage to speak English perfect, because they are almost forced to interact with us if they want to move up or develope(or so many think )
Then again,my statement is not really complete because it is a tricky subject.Which language would be taught?Many more things to think about...
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 13:22:00
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quote:
Originally posted by kassma
quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
Que Iīm glad to see some proof here (not that itīs new to me but...)that education doesnīt necessarily stand in the way for ignorance and ignorant attitudes. Sucks for you tho.
QUE? me oyiste. how old are you, 11. the only ignorance on this thread is you and your eurocentric opinions: "But are you against the colonial languages or what? Whatīs wrong with English? Donīt you want to be a part of the World where everybody can understand you? I would sure look funny if I went to the US and spoke my native language just because Iīm so hardheaded and proud of my culture that it makes me look stupid and ignorant to others" that, right there,is pure ignorance, so don't tell me bu!!sh*t like i'm ignorant when in the 21st century you are the one who considers others speaking their own language a "stupid" and "ignorant" thing to do. no, i do not give a f#@k whether you changed your mind or not, i'm sick of toubab like you that think you have the final word on everything, especially sh#t that has nothing to do with you. sucks for you that this African doesn't give a sh%t about what you say or think.
What a comedian... Tell me, what disburbs you more -that Iīm white or that I have an opinion, or both?
When I spoke about ignorance, I guess I hit your soft spot there.
But I will say no mo, since your bad@$$ stinking attitude speaks for itself already.
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Edited by - Babylon on 06 Mar 2006 13:23:03 |
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