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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Dec 2005 : 08:49:09
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The question reminds me of the classical; “hen and the egg” Is it the country or its languages which came first? All languages in the Gambia are equal and as old as the country itself.
It’s very hard to say which the first spoken language in the Gambia is. From a historical perspective one could argue that the languages spoken in the Gambia derivate from elsewhere, or are being spoken elsewhere at the same time.
Which language is the oldest should not be confused with officializing the Gambian languages. How old a particular language is does not determine its volubility or its communicability. Making Gambian languages official does not mean choosing one language over the other but giving each language the possibility of expressing its reality and thereby broadening the spectrum of reason and discuss in the country.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2005 : 17:48:48
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| The time to create an atmosphere where the future of Africa is discussed in her own languages has come. If Africa wants to gain total independence, it has to formalise her indigenous languages and make them formally official. Until then Africa would remain a third world, an underdeveloped continent under the yoke of lingual slavery. There would be no real development in Africa unless the African languages become official; until the bible, the Koran and modern technology are translated into the indigenous languages like Japanese, Arabic and Chinese. Only then would the African context be brought to light. The discussion would not only have a broader spectrum but also more connected to the everyday life of the people. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2005 : 21:46:54
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| Which African languages do you mean, will there be one language representing each country or do you mean all tribal languages (which are maaaany)? And why not talk about the problems with tribalism you have in Africa, doesn´t that cause alot of problems for Africans to unite? In Ivory coast for example, there are no less than 63 different languages spoken! When it is like that, how on earth can everyone understand eachother? Naturally, inorder to communicate with eachother you would need One common language which everyone can speak and understand. Or? If everybody just speaks their own tribes language, there will be endless missunderstandings which causes conflicts between people. Not everybody in the Gambia understand the other tribe languages, not all Wolofs understand Mandinka and so on. So what is your idea of a solution, if using common sense? Which language is the ideal one? |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 00:08:39
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The first language a kid learns is his/her mother tongue before learning to speak other languages. In England and France it’s English and French that kids are trained in and not until the later part of primary and under the secondary school education do they start to learn other languages
In England there is Irish and English, in Belgium Flemish and French, in Sweden Sámi and Swedish, in Finland Finish and Swedish and so fort.
The relation between Mandingka and Wolof is closer than the relation between Mandingka and English or French or between Wolof and English or French. How Gambian languages are related see “Omega12, Intermeddler, and Drammehkanji” And am sure in Ivory Coast people speak more that one language.
Common sense (if there is any) tells us that those languages you refer to as too many to be useful were existing before French and English. The people did communicate before these colonial languages came. The problem of Ivory Coast can’t be reduced to tribalism. What form of tribalism was in existence in the Ivory Coast before the French and did that tribalism decreased or increased with the arrival of the French?
The coexistence of these many languages in Africa goes far beyond the arrival of English and French. The implication that they are too many to continue to coexist is not only pessimistic but a typical Europhonic so call common sense (orientation)
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 01:16:27
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| First I must say that Sami is not a common language in Sweden (Norway or Finland, where Sami people live as well)but a very small minority language which most people in Sweden do not understand. I am not a historian in African languages or other languages so I´m not the one to talk about what was going on with the tribes before white man came with his languages. But are you against the colonial languages or what? What´s wrong with English? Don´t you want to be a part of the World where everybody can understand you? I would sure look funny if I went to the US and spoke my native language just because I´m so hardheaded and proud of my culture that it makes me look stupid and ignorant to others. And you may call common sense a white thing(?) or whatever, but I know common sense is used by many in this world who just simply follow their gut feeling of what is right or wrong. It may sound simple, but we humans are pretty simple and similar beings after all when it comes to the very basic way of living -regardless to skin colour, cultural backgound, class or education. Living in a world where people can communicate with eachother, understanding eachother is the key to succes and less conflicts like war, racism and so on. The situation in Ivory Coast has also directly something to do with racism and discrimination that is caused by tribalism. You can not deny what happend in Rwanda between the tribes hutus and tutsis, can you? Check the situation between the clans in Somalia. What´s happening in Congo? One is better than the other, the fights continue that way. If you can´t see the problems then I´m afraid you are living in denial. You must face the problems first before you can solve them. And one good way to try and solve something is to use your "Common Sense", which I hope all people have more or less. Many times the ideas from a good man with common sense makes alot more sense than the ones from some (nutty)professor. Ones native tongue is very important of course, but how does the Africans think about eachother from different tribes? Do they all live in perfect harmony according to you? I can see right here in Sweden some conflicts between Gambians, the Wolofs who say Mandingos are like this and that and vice versa. One is better than the other, ain´t it so? Tell me something, how can Africa with it´s continues civil wars become independent and united if the people in one country cant come together and unite first? I think I just heard the saying "United we stand, divided we fall" somewhere in the back of my head... And it all starts with a language and communication. (and common sense)... |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 17:14:48
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This is a journey of a thousand miles and not a dance on roses.
It saddens me not to be able to address this issue in my mother tongue. Not only would I be able to express myself better but my message would have gotten to many more.
To speak our own languages, because it is our own languages that can help us define the principles of democracy; the constitution, the judiciary and the executive comprehensively and in accordance with the reality of everyday life, here and now. Then democracy is not only gambianized but also connected to geography and history of the Gambian people it intends to serve.
The existence of an Africa with all her “maaany” languages before English and French is a common sense fact. One needs not be an historian to grasp that simple fact. I don’t hate colonial languages as much as the French and English don’t speak Mandingka or Wolof on a visit to Africa or in any other country. Do you think is because of the hatred of other language that the French and English representatives speak their languages in UN?
There are conflicts within Africa as much as there are conflicts else where. To say the conflicts are mainly tribal is to see the tree for the forest, to see the result for the course and is to climb a tree from the top.
Let’s look at the conflicts and be aware of the time in which they occur. Why are there conflicts in these countries now and not 30-40 years ago? Why is the aspect of tribe more renounced now than 30 years ago? To implicate that the conflicts are tribal is to say colonialism had/has no effect on the colonized and that we are better off speaking English and French in our parliaments than Wolof, Mandingka or Jola with which we express our situation better and more comprehensive to the majority.
Europe was not born peaceful no is it free of conflict today. There is more hope for peace if the peace- talks are held in a language that the people making peace understand and not in a language that alienates them not only from the venue of negotiations but also from the realties of the conflict here and now and from each other.
First I must say that Sámi is not a common language in Sweden/---/ but a very small minority language which most people in Sweden do not understand. But Sámi is the official language of the Sami, they read and write Sámi. Hold their own elections and speak Sámi in their parliament. Secondly English and French are no majority languages in Africa. Why are they the spoken languages in the parliament and not the majority languages, the people’s languages?
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 02:20:05
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| I see your point now Janko. Thank you for teaching me something new today. |
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Intermeddler
Germany
3 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 15:52:20
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Hi Janko and Babylon, you might find this interesting.
The article below is an excerpt from "Language, Neo-Colonialism and the African development Challenge" from The Centre for Advanced Studies of African Society's
>>What the Centre for Advanced Studies of African Society’s (CASAS) work has so far revealed is that as first, second or third language speakers (we need to remember that most Africans are multilingual), over 75% of Africans speak no more than twelve core languages these being, Nguni, Sotho-Tswana, Swahili, Amharic, Fulful, Bambara, Igbo, Hausa, Yoruba, Luo, Eastern Inter-lacustrine and Western Inter-lacustrine (Kitara). Fifteen core languages will take us up to about 85% of the African population of the continent; the three additions being the Somali / Oromo / Rendille / Borana cluster, the Akan cluster and the Gur group. For a population of 600 million to 700 million people, these languages cannot be described as small speech communities. There are some of us who have come to the conclusion that this idea of an “African Tower of Babel” has, intentionally or unintentionally, become a useful tool in the hands of those who want to see Africans work permanently in the languages introduced by the colonials<< (To read the whole article please check: http://www.casas.co.za/papers_language.htm )
And only today BBC published, that the original inhabitants of Marocco, the Berbers are re-introducing their script at school. See: "Marocco's Berbers bring their ancient script back to life"
( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4502772.stm )
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 23:46:07
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Intermeddle Thank you for the insightful link, a wonderful historical perspective.
Africa would only define her problems properly when her languages become the instrument of analyses and not colonial languages. Using English or French to define Africas problems is like the man who lost his penny in the dark and looks for it where there is light. Well, he would see clearly under the light but would never find his penny.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 00:44:39
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BBC site the link is at the end
Are indigenous languages dead?
As the continent marks the Year of African Languages in 2006 to help promote the use of the mother-tongue, does it matter if Africa's indigenous languages are dying out?
Africa is the most linguistically diverse continent in the world, according to the UN's Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (Unesco). People speak close to 2,000 different languages which is a third of the world's linguistic heritage.
New languages such as Kenya's sheng, a mixture of English, Swahili and mother-tongues, are emerging. But up to 300 languages have less than 10,000 speakers, which puts them on the UN's endangered list, and 37 are in danger of completely dying out in the next few years.
So, if people stop speaking the old languages, what, if anything, will be lost? Why do people create new languages such as sheng? How many languages do you speak? Do you know of a mother-tongue that no longer exists?
Your comments: On BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4536450.stm |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 01:45:10
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Hi janko,
It seems as though you've started a new thread or topic. If so could you please cut and paste your new topic using New Topic link. That way it makes it much easier for contributors to reply to it. Thanks.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 09:01:34
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Would a good compromise, or starting point be to speak mother tongue in Primary school with english as a second language, Then in secondary school, when different groups come together more, have english as the main language for teaching through. I am STILL concerned that in secondary school you could end up with 'gangs' and superior groups if one Africa language is chosen as a language of choice. Also good knowledge of english is useful for internet, business and further studies. Of course as an English person I see seaking english as a good thing. In Africa it had more negative history as the language of the colonials.
Another issue is the curriculum in the schools. It should be relevant to the pupil. So you start from what the pupil already knows. EG History, local African history, Geography, learn about the village, Literature, retell traditional stories.
Macbeth??? I am not sure what place that has. SOME place for literature scholars as a knowledge of shakespeare is good. His themes are relevant to all mankind. BUT at what age??? I would say 14..15.... There are alot more other things to learn first.
We have this debate in England too: Education for its own sake, education for skills for life, relevance to the child. An education system that serves the needs of every child is the aim. It is difficult to achieve and expensive. But thoughtful, questioning teachers is a good start. Good teacher education is important.
Sorry I have gone WAY off the point. |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 09:16:03
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quote:
Originally posted by kajaw
It is true that the use of foreign languages has indeed been an impediment to our progress if anything it has contributed to a sense of inferiority. However, there are countless countries who were barely colonized and retained their native language and still did not do better. Ethopia is a good example. So is many Arab countries.
Let us set aside the idealism for a little while and consider the fact that very few African countries have a common language all could communicate in . Kenya Tanzania and to a lesser extent Uganda and the Congo have Swahilli. The fact of the matter is that those idealistic african leaders who called for the use of indiginious languages never considered the practicalities of doing so. Take Gambia for example. What will be your official language? Mandinka? wolof? Jola.... How much will it cost to transilate all of our government documents in the choosen language? how much would it cost to translate all the textbooks we need in to that native language. It is a giant almost impossible in the current atmosphere. Africa is faced with other more pressing issues such as malaria, Aids and a host of other problems.
I understand the centiments. I am mandinka i have been learning to speak english since i was 5 and i still do not consider myself fluent enough in it. I would have much prefered to read and write in mandinka. Yet i understand that there are somethings in life that i cannot undoe however unplasent they may be.
However, like most of you, i am concerned with the fact that some languages are going to go extinct. That is indeed a tragidy. One thing we failed to do since we got our independaic is that we failed incoperate the teaching of our local languages in our education system. One thing i suggest could have been done was to make sure that when one is in highschool, one is thought a language that is not the one you spoke at home. So that students are made to choose a second language. For instance, if you are Mandinka and speak mandinka at home, the corriculumn should be such that you are required to learn Pular, Jola, Sererre Wolof, Soninke Manjak.... and if you are wolof learn jola or Serrer. In this way, we would improve communication in our communities as well as help preserve our languages. Institutionalizing these languages will also help in improving their writing as well as stimulate cultural preservation. for instance, growing up, my grand parents told me many stories relating to my heritage stories about Jankeh wally and Musa Molo as well as songs ....Writing it, teaching it, and studying it has more cultural value to me than reading Macbet.
do not mention Macbeth, i live in america, and during high school, i was forced to read so many british literature that i can't stand it any more. anyways, although i understand your point that it will be hard to change things, i feel that africa getting on a good and stable path mandates that africa's children speaks and writes in its languages. learning about your own history and culture will remove the inferiority some africans feel towards western culture. |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 09:19:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Thanks janko for introducing this interesting thread. 
Hi kajaw hasn't always been the case in Gambia that people from ethnic groups can speak more than one or two local languages  For example the Fula's I've met can speak Wolof & Mandinka. The mandinka's I've met can speak Serehoulies, Jola speak Mandinka etc.
I think its more productive to use mother tongue languages to reinforce foreign languages while acquiring them. That way the mother tongue remains utilitarian and will survive.
Also there is a perpetuated myth that African languages cannot be transcribed, as with pulaar language, N'ko script, wolof these can all be written down. Therefore scholars could be given the opportunity to take exams in these languages as they would do in European languages.
Just imagine if indigenous language was given as much attention as foreign languages are its not too late. Reflecting on history European Adventurers had to learn the local languages of Africa to be able to divide and conquer it. Just imagine using the same tools to strengthen it.
On the other side of the coin all being said and done we are all tapping on our keyboards on three sides of the Atlantic in the major international language of English. Ironic but true- I think the lesson is that if we were to have more bilingual and trilingual books made available in different languages then this would help to build bridges and assist progress.
Peace
Sister Omega
you have a really good point sister omega. my mother is Manjaku, speaks her own language, mandinka, wolof, understands serrer, and aku. and all because the people from her area spoke these languages. so i don't think that knowing eachother's languages is a hard thing to do, i think its all about writing these languages and teaching it to the next generation. btw, i really like this tread |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 09:41:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
Which African languages do you mean, will there be one language representing each country or do you mean all tribal languages (which are maaaany)? And why not talk about the problems with tribalism you have in Africa, doesn´t that cause alot of problems for Africans to unite? In Ivory coast for example, there are no less than 63 different languages spoken! When it is like that, how on earth can everyone understand eachother? Naturally, inorder to communicate with eachother you would need One common language which everyone can speak and understand. Or? If everybody just speaks their own tribes language, there will be endless missunderstandings which causes conflicts between people. Not everybody in the Gambia understand the other tribe languages, not all Wolofs understand Mandinka and so on. So what is your idea of a solution, if using common sense? Which language is the ideal one?
the great thing about Gambia is that most of us do share a common language, wolof or mandinka, as the same in senegal. each ethnic group can have their own written language, but i think the national languages should have first preference to be thought in school. its amazing how smart children are, and whatever they are thought they will soak up. when individual countries try and implement their own african languages as their official languages, they would have to deal with it themselves since they are the ones who really understand their country. therefore, as a gambian, i can't really dictate or suggest what ivory coast should do since i don't know their situation. by the way, why are you so antagonististic. are you tubab? |
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