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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Oct 2011 : 23:34:51
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UDP had nothing to loose to be part of a united front as principal partner, with its leader as leading contender to lead it and share national cake than trying to high-jack opportunity against Jammeh/APRC mal-governance and steal credibility as only strong opposition party that should challenge them; at this eleventh hour  |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 00:39:11
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Reading through these threads really make me sad. What is the fight about? At some point folks have to realized that they are in fact hitting their heads against the wall and common sense dictates that you stop before you crack your brains.
It was a great democratic exercise that Gambia is yearning to have and build our society around it... BUT the fact of the matter is that we are not there and will never be there until we find a way FIRST to remove the obstacle.
The picture you are seeing at the signing ceremony are supposed to be post Jammeh and at the end of a transition.
There is absolutely NO democracy in Gambia today and to deny that is simply to live in a dream land and fantasy...
The outcome of that signing ceremony is a fantasy as it will take you NO where regardless of how many photo OPS we have.
I cannot believe that a ceremony of such is so important to people who have despise any form of photo ops for the sake of it all their lives..
I cannot believe that the question of WHAT NEXT or what is the outcome of this signing ceremony can be overlooked by people who are supposedly so intellectual and have been in the forefront...
No matter, how many papers you sign, No matter how many conventions you conduct, no matter how historic this event is perceive to be, the ultimate outcome is a disgraceful defeat and back to their mini camps...
Anything less than having all the major players there is simply a futile exercise as far as Nov elections and beyond.
This is a futile exercise that will go down in the history books as a waste of time of a nation yearning for change!!!!
Am simply disappointed that they will go this route with or without consequencies to the Gambia people!!! Go figure!!! |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
Edited by - dbaldeh on 01 Nov 2011 00:43:14 |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 02:30:28
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Dquote:
Originally posted by dbaldeh
Reading through these threads really make me sad. What is the fight about? At some point folks have to realized that they are in fact hitting their heads against the wall and common sense dictates that you stop before you crack your brains...
Do no come here with your self-righteous pretentions and expect people take you any serious. You are the biggest hypocrite of them all. You cannot come here pretending to give a hoot about the national interest when you're at the fore-front of what destroyed any chance of opposition unity even before it could be defined. The architects of opposition disunity are not the politicians back home. Any attempt of unity was dismembered right here in the Gambia Diaspora, with the chunk of the blame resting sqaurely on the shoulders of STGDP and the Diaspora online media. You are supposed to be arbiters and oversight bodies to guide the opposition through their talks and discussions towards a united front. But right in the middle of talks you unanimously take positions. Siding with one party against all the othe others. What referee make a foul call for a tackle before feet were even raised? What jury delivers a verdict before both sides were heard? And what Judge pronounces final judgement in the middle of a hearing? Yet still you have the go damn nerves to blame the opposition for failure to unite. You make me absolutely sick!!! You are the very people who had emboldened Ousainanou Darbo and the UDP to take the stance they have held and shut any attempts of meaningful talks. Talks were rendered invalid the moment you opened your bloody mouths and took your stupid positions. Woe betides those who take counsel of stupidity, immaturity, selfishness, mediocrity and cluelessness. You have the audacity to talk about history being unkind to a certain section of the opposition, but if history were to delivered its verdict, it should send you all to hell. You especially, Demba. Don't talk to us about national interest when your image is all that matters to you. You only associate with what seems to be chick at any particular moment. When the wind blows UDP led alliance you are there. When it blows NADD you are there shaking a leg. When PDOIS is is the new cool guess who is there. FU TOI REK NGA TAK. GOMULO DARA. CHEM!!! |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 03:04:43
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Smart observations, Sanka. A document worth its salt indeed.quote:
Originally posted by sankalanka
Kobo, I just finished reading the M.O.U of the national front in its entirety. I must say that it is very impressive and quite representative of a true demicractic dispensation. I hope all progressive gambians will embrace it wholeheartedly, for if this should be the instiutuitonal and governing instruments through which a new Gambia is reborn, it is indeed quite encouraging.
Another thing that I find encouraging, despite all the distortion is that the process is very democractic and thorough, and put in place all the safeguards that will ensure that power is not concentrated in the hands of one person.
For example, the choice of a running mate and the method put in place to select one. Even the choice of a flagbearer has to go through a rigorous process. The running mate shall become the vice president and shall enjoy the same immunities as the president. The president cannot sack him if they should disagree. The same way the president is sacked that would be the same way the vice president is sacked also.
People should check this document out. I find it very convincing.
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 11:03:36
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quote:
Originally posted by dbaldeh
The picture you are seeing at the signing ceremony are supposed to be post Jammeh and at the end of a transition.
The outcome of that signing ceremony is a fantasy as it will take you NO where regardless of how many photo OPS we have.
Dbaldeh. All your comments on this signing ceremony is not true and invalid. The MOU does not favour any political party and parties concerned were clear in unity, agree and sign a pact together under the eyes of the public; without any back room deals ? It does not make sense to state that they should sign "post Jammeh and at the end of a transition"?
You favour UDP Party-led on which UDP is selling bragging rights of dominance and only credible party; trying to outplay its rival opposition parties, seize electorate, total power and control and without even winning elections leader already anointed, hailed as conqueror(s) and its leader aided by diaspora to win media propaganda for self-proclaimed victor addressing NATION AS A PRESIDENT?
Other politicians and opposition parties cannot endorse UDP party manifesto, wind-up and not participate in the general elections. If they resolved and proceeded to form a united front under the theme "ONE GAMBIA ONE PEOPLE ONE DESTINY" and progressing within time constraints to fight the cause together, who are you to challenge their decisions and actions; if you don't see that it is national unity, partnership and solidarity before partisan cause |
Edited by - kobo on 01 Nov 2011 11:09:47 |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 17:22:02
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PDOIS should cut the crap
- by Joe Sambou
Hamat is going to be the flagbearer. You do not have to be in Mauritania to know that dinner is served in the evening.
Hamat had told the whole world that he will not be part of any alliance that he will not lead. Now Einstein, what does the
crystal ball tell you? If Hamat will break ranks with the UDP that consistently had more votes than Hamat, can you please
tells us why in God's green earth he will let PDOIS or GPDP lead the alliance.
You see, this is what happens when you see the moon and insist that you saw the sun. Again, if Hamat is going to be the
flag bearer, then PDOIS tell Gambians what the basis is. A convention is not a basis. If Hamat is the man, how did the
PDOIS principles agree to that? Is it because they signed the MOU? This is not about what the Gambian voter
requested of you, is it? Regarding the "five" parties, that is a joke, right? PDOIS and NADD, PDOIS is the only party left
in NADD, thus, PDOIS and NADD are one and the same. What is also interesting is after calling for principles all these
decades, PDOIS is now in bed with Henry and GPDP, are you guys serious? As for GMC, they are playing doubles. I
think Mai Fatty needs to come out and straighten the record.( He just mentioned on Maafanta that he is no part of
PDOIS convention. Maafanta.com)
However, information is floating that those that went to the Convention for GMC did their own thing. I do not care either
way. Mai is claiming that he does not endorse your Convention, so which is which? You see, PDOIS cannot dictate to
people how they should be viewed. What is unfolding is unbecoming and it is not to the interest of the
voter but to feed an ego. It is also a fantasy to believe that the PDOIS folks are the only ones who are
dedicated and mean well for Gambia. That is a lame argument that will not stand any test. PDOIS should be the last
party to talk about electoral statistics. Register 6% and then start to preach to the choir. What basis will Hamat be a
flagbearer except that he had more votes than PDOIS in any contest they entered? If so, what about the party that had
trounced the NRP, as the NRP trounced PDOIS at the polls? The same party led that PDOIS used as defense against
the UDP, is the same party led that they are accepting with NRP, do you see the apparent contradiction?
I am a citizen like any and will speak my mind on PDOIS or any other party and do not need anyone’s approval
The paranoia and denial should stop, no conspiracies here. Cause and effect. Hamat said he will not be a party to NO
UNITED FRONT of all opposition parties that he does not lead, the reason why he will not ally with the UDP because
Darboe also want to lead the alliance. Where is the magic in this low hanging fruit that even Ray Charles can see?
The PDOIS Convention is just window dressing, for the outcome is predestined . Hamat to be the flagbearer or no
Convention for Hamat. The million dollar question is on what basis outside his claim of being with the largest support and
electoral track record, no matter how you slice it, did that came about? By default, the same claim that UDP made that
PDOIS continues to fight. The party led that PDOIS denounced is the same party led that they are now supporting,or
someone tells us Hamat is going to run under a NADD ticket, the same NADD Hamat helped decapitate and denounced.
Someone also said if I am not mistaken that Halifa attributed politics of tribe to Hamat, Yet, Halifa has more in common
with Hamat today. That is a contradiction. History is not going to be rewritten in front of eyewitnesses.
Regarding this pica boo game playing around is going to be reduced to Hamat. Halifa told us that he is not going to be a
candidate and that PDOIS will not field a candidate. Henry does not have support aside from Kanifing and to be more
specific, his street. Mai Fatty, if PDOIS care to insist that he is still in count is not in the country, unless they say Martin
is your suspect. No one wants to go there am sure. On top of all this, Hamat swore by his parents that any alliance he
joins, he must lead.
What is not logical about the above? I swear if I could explain in "Huntin" language I would have ventured.
This jam that the opposition parties find themselves in is their own doing the paranoia that I am pitting PDOIS against the
UDP gotta stop. When I say something about Darboe, you see pit-bulls from that end snap, the same with OJ, Mai, and
Hamat. The only exception is my good friend Henry, and that is because he is the Chairman, Secretary, Treasurer,
Auditor, PR, and Vice Chair of GPDP. :-)! Folks here know what's up. You must realize that the business of the Gambian
nation is not PDOIS exclusive domain, but all stakeholders - Gambians. Party leaders created this mess so no one
should attempt to transfer blame.The whole of Gambia has been pointing the obvious to PDOIS and all their folks stuck
their nose in the mud and when the results of their actions hit in the face , I hope no one shows up crying we hate you
all. Accusing folks of hating PDOIS is a lame excuse and Pdois folks should own up to that negligence.
You partisans have paraded here for too long and are now realizing the mediocrity and low standards you set for
yourself. Instead of bearing responsibility, you want to come here to foam about haters as if I am on a guest worker
program in the Gambia. Now that you get your United Front, your worry should not be Joe, but how many votes you will
get with that rouse. Remember, all Yaya needs is one single vote to take it all. Why do you think folks here are quiet?
Precisely because folks do not buy into the Bull **** that is being sold.
For directions, PDOIS should sell that to foreigners and those without rights to citizenship or freedom of thought. I do not
have to wait for any convention to state the obvious. Who on these distro can honestly say they do not know Hamat is
going to be the flagbearer? Who? Then why the facade? How come Mai was not there if I was speculating?
A flagbearer also will come to pass and he will be Hamat, so please stop the games PDOIS. On Thursday and when
Hamat becomes your candidate, please you folks leave us alone. What kills me is some of these PDOIs fo folks calling
yourselves defenders of their party to clown around here as if the rest of us are not Gambians. You convince yourself
with dilutions long enough and reality will elude you.
Source: maafanta
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 17:33:13
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RELATED BANTABA TOPICS;
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Edited by - kobo on 01 Nov 2011 17:33:52 |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 17:53:47
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quote:
Originally posted by shaka
Dquote:
Originally posted by dbaldeh
Reading through these threads really make me sad. What is the fight about? At some point folks have to realized that they are in fact hitting their heads against the wall and common sense dictates that you stop before you crack your brains...
Do no come here with your self-righteous pretentions and expect people take you any serious. You are the biggest hypocrite of them all. You cannot come here pretending to give a hoot about the national interest when you're at the fore-front of what destroyed any chance of opposition unity even before it could be defined. The architects of opposition disunity are not the politicians back home. Any attempt of unity was dismembered right here in the Gambia Diaspora, with the chunk of the blame resting sqaurely on the shoulders of STGDP and the Diaspora online media. You are supposed to be arbiters and oversight bodies to guide the opposition through their talks and discussions towards a united front. But right in the middle of talks you unanimously take positions. Siding with one party against all the othe others. What referee make a foul call for a tackle before feet were even raised? What jury delivers a verdict before both sides were heard? And what Judge pronounces final judgement in the middle of a hearing? Yet still you have the go damn nerves to blame the opposition for failure to unite. You make me absolutely sick!!! You are the very people who had emboldened Ousainanou Darbo and the UDP to take the stance they have held and shut any attempts of meaningful talks. Talks were rendered invalid the moment you opened your bloody mouths and took your stupid positions. Woe betides those who take counsel of stupidity, immaturity, selfishness, mediocrity and cluelessness. You have the audacity to talk about history being unkind to a certain section of the opposition, but if history were to delivered its verdict, it should send you all to hell. You especially, Demba. Don't talk to us about national interest when your image is all that matters to you. You only associate with what seems to be chick at any particular moment. When the wind blows UDP led alliance you are there. When it blows NADD you are there shaking a leg. When PDOIS is is the new cool guess who is there. FU TOI REK NGA TAK. GOMULO DARA. CHEM!!!
Shaka, I will only engage you if you can debate our national issue with maturity and respect. I will not engage you if you act immature and childish.
No amounts of anger or disrespect will take our country anywhere.
I am an independent citizen who makes my own observations and draw conclusion. I don't play blind loyalty at the expense of our nation. No single citizen or political party is worth or more important than a nation.
So if you want to debate the issues and why I take the position I take, I am open to that. Otherwise, you can remain angry and keep insulting yourself.
You want to debate the issues you are welcome! |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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sankalanka
270 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 18:07:36
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DBALDEH, I am going to respond to your notes, because I believe at this juncture it is the responsibility of every Gambian to express his or her opinion on the political events that are unfolding in our country.
These political events will undoubtedly shape the character and disposition of the political developments that will unravel now and into the future. It is therefore necessary that our arguments are given the utmost clarity, so that even whereas we differ in our partisan leanings to support a given ideological and political standpoint, the fundamental bases upon which we argue should be clear and understandable to all.
We have the right to differ; we have the right to hold different opinions; we have the right to pursue our different interest persuasions, and therefore should make our arguments more particular than general. On this note, I will share my own opinions about what you wrote.
"Reading through these threads really make me sad. What is the fight about? At some point folks have to realized that they are in fact 'hitting their heads against the wall and common sense dictates that you stop before you crack your brains."
General statements like this, without creating any basis for what you are talking about, makes the argument appears cloudy and instead of giving clarity creates confusion.
Indeed, there is a fight. And the fight is about something. What Gambians are witnessing is an intellectual battle in which we are trying to shape the destiny of our country.
We have all taken up positions, and we will all defend our positions with vigor, and we will challenge each others ideas about how to govern our country, until we build consensus around the most democratic underpinnings through which we can do so.
The Gambia's situation is so precarious, to the extend that some people are calling for an insurrection, political instability and all what not, because the absence of the conditions for making peaceful change possible are creating the conditions for making violent change inevitable.
Thank GOD, we are blessed with people of utmost integrity and political vision who will never allow our country to disintegrate.
However, our political differences are genuine. They have a basis. We have to understand the basis of our political arguments to truly define where we stand on the issues. If we don't do this we will just be shouting over each other.
Now coming to the arguments. I am a supporter of PDOIS. I support them for what they represent more that anything else.
I support an idea. I support a concept about the building and consolidation of a democratic culture that will expand the freedom and liberty of its citizens, as well as create the institutional and structural frameworks that will promote the rule of law.
I support the building and consolidation of a democratic culture that will harness Power, to the extend that it is responsible, checked and balanced. To me this is where PDOIS is winning the argument, and where I always find myself coming to their defense. Not that they cannot defend themselves.
When the idea of forming an alliance of all opposition political parties arose, they help to create a document that reflected on the values that I have mentioned above. We all know what was the outcome.
When the second idea of forming an alliance of all opposition political parties arose, without taking into consideration the fundamental disagreements that are at the core of why PDOIS is not supporting a UDP-led coalition, you just expect PDOIS to go along willingly.
"It was a great democratic exercise that Gambia is yearning to have and build our society around it... BUT the fact of the matter is that we are not there and will never be there until we find a way FIRST to remove the obstacle."
The question is how do we remove the obstacle? UDP proffered one option of doing it. PDOIS proffered another option of doing it. People have taken positions to defend each option. This is how matters stand.
Let us now leave the people to decide. It is just a matter of weeks. Notwithstanding what the outcome will be, the evolutionary process will continue and all the contradictions will come to the fore.
"The picture you are seeing at the signing ceremony are supposed to be post Jammeh and at the end of a transition."
How do you bring about this transition? And what transition do you envisage? Something completely new or a continuation of the status quo?
"There is absolutely NO democracy in Gambia today and to deny that is simply to live in a dream land and fantasy..."
And so.
"The outcome of that signing ceremony is a fantasy as it will take you NO where regardless of how many photo OPS we have."
What then will take us anywhere? If a udp-led alliance, how is that so?
"I cannot believe that a ceremony of such is so important to people who have despise any form of photo ops for the sake of it all their lives..
And so?
"I cannot believe that the question of WHAT NEXT or what is the outcome of this signing ceremony can be overlooked by people who are supposedly so intellectual and have been in the forefront...
No matter, how many papers you sign, No matter how many conventions you conduct, no matter how historic this event is perceive to be, the ultimate outcome is a disgraceful defeat and back to their mini camps..."
All these things you are saying would it be any different if PDOIS was to support a UDP-LED alliance and how so?
"Anything less than having all the major players there is simply a futile exercise as far as Nov elections and beyond."
Ok! so what? How are you to bring the major players together who have categorically and definitively stake their positions? They can all live, I would presume, to fight another day. Could they not?
"This is a futile exercise that will go down in the history books as a waste of time of a nation yearning for change!!!!"
What is not a futile exercise? And what is the change that the nation is yearning for? And what nation are you talking about? A voting population that has rejected the UDP'S different alliances for change on three different occasions. In 1996 when remnants of the P.P.P. and NCP formed the UDP. In 2001 when the UDP formed and alliance with P.P.P., and in 2006 when NRP and PPP form and alliance with the UDP.
WHAT makes you think having PDOIS AND NRP support UDP this time around could make a difference?
"Am simply disappointed that they will go this route with or without consequencies to the Gambia people!!! Go figure!!!
The consequences have always been there. If you have to apportioned blame do so accordingly.
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 18:12:45
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
quote:
Originally posted by dbaldeh
The picture you are seeing at the signing ceremony are supposed to be post Jammeh and at the end of a transition.
The outcome of that signing ceremony is a fantasy as it will take you NO where regardless of how many photo OPS we have.
Dbaldeh. All your comments on this signing ceremony is not true and invalid. The MOU does not favour any political party and parties concerned were clear in unity, agree and sign a pact together under the eyes of the public; without any back room deals ? It does not make sense to state that they should sign "post Jammeh and at the end of a transition"?
You favour UDP Party-led on which UDP is selling bragging rights of dominance and only credible party; trying to outplay its rival opposition parties, seize electorate, total power and control and without even winning elections leader already anointed, hailed as conqueror(s) and its leader aided by diaspora to win media propaganda for self-proclaimed victor addressing NATION AS A PRESIDENT?
Other politicians and opposition parties cannot endorse UDP party manifesto, wind-up and not participate in the general elections. If they resolved and proceeded to form a united front under the theme "ONE GAMBIA ONE PEOPLE ONE DESTINY" and progressing within time constraints to fight the cause together, who are you to challenge their decisions and actions; if you don't see that it is national unity, partnership and solidarity before partisan cause
Brother Kobo, I think you misread my post on the signing ceremony. While it looks great on paper, looks so democratic in public, it is far from the reality and the outcome that the Gambian people want.
See many of you are living in denial. The supposed democratic process we witnessed is meaningless as long as we have a regime at the helm that prevents any form of reform.
My take is that while these are good democratic credentials they will neither win us votes nor the elections. It is an exercise in futility as far as governing.
Let's give some paralel examples so you may understand unless you don't want to... sometimes you have to remove the obstacle before you can move forward.
The Tunisian people or the Libyan rebels could have chosen to do their own democratic exercise in Bengazi and it would have resulted to nothing... unless they remove the monster in power just like they did. Now they have a chance to rebuild their nation, their democratic institutions etc. Whether they will do it is a different story! But at least they have the opportunity!
My questions to you and all those who bought into that process...
If you come out with an Hamat Bah candidate or Assan Martin or even Halifa Sallah, do you think that will win you the elections?
In the absent of winning the elections and dislodging the incumbent who has control over everything... what is the meaning of that exercise? What is the difference between that and the NADD outcome when Halifa was selected and he contested elections?
Why do you guys think after doing the same thing for over 20 years without much electoral progress, this time it will be different? Why?
On another point, you are wrong by alleging that I favor the UDP. Absolutely not, I have my own beef with the UDP party and how it is run which I started airing out and will continue...
My take this time around is that numbers matters in elections... if you don't have the numbers you cannot make any difference period...
UDP has the largest voting constituents as far as last elections are concern. It makes sense to me to find a formula to first secure those electoral constituents and build up on that. That is my take and no amount of name calling can take me away from that position...
Call it whatever you want, but without taking advantage of voting constituents there is no way you can change the status quo in Gambia...
Stay tuned... more discussions on this.... |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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Ebra
Gambia
268 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 18:17:46
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Signing ceremony for the worst failure in Gambian political history.
Vote for UDP or APRC BUT DONT EVEN THINK OF THE GREEDY JEALOUS MAFIA GROUP. |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 18:19:09
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quote:
Originally posted by shaka
Smart observations, Sanka. A document worth its salt indeed.quote:
Originally posted by sankalanka
Kobo, I just finished reading the M.O.U of the national front in its entirety. I must say that it is very impressive and quite representative of a true demicractic dispensation. I hope all progressive gambians will embrace it wholeheartedly, for if this should be the instiutuitonal and governing instruments through which a new Gambia is reborn, it is indeed quite encouraging.
Another thing that I find encouraging, despite all the distortion is that the process is very democractic and thorough, and put in place all the safeguards that will ensure that power is not concentrated in the hands of one person.
For example, the choice of a running mate and the method put in place to select one. Even the choice of a flagbearer has to go through a rigorous process. The running mate shall become the vice president and shall enjoy the same immunities as the president. The president cannot sack him if they should disagree. The same way the president is sacked that would be the same way the vice president is sacked also.
People should check this document out. I find it very convincing.
Shaka, we all read the document and as I said while it is "very impressive" on paper, it will never see day light if they cannot win the elections. The NADD MOU had pretty much the same thing and we are back here again arguing about the same thing...
I have no problem with the vision of the process as that is the democratic ideal Gambia envision, but again unless you find a way to win elections FIRST and then make the necessary changes, any exercise of that kind is futile... Come number 24th, that document will be for the history books and we will be back at it again...
How hard is that for intelligent people to understand????? |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 18:48:03
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quote:
Originally posted by sankalanka
DBALDEH, I am going to respond to your notes, because I believe at this juncture it is the responsibility of every Gambian to express his or her opinion on the political events that are unfolding in our country.
These political events will undoubtedly shape the character and disposition of the political developments that will unravel now and into the future. It is therefore necessary that our arguments are given the utmost clarity, so that even whereas we differ in our partisan leanings to support a given ideological and political standpoint, the fundamental bases upon which we argue should be clear and understandable to all.
We have the right to differ; we have the right to hold different opinions; we have the right to pursue our different interest persuasions, and therefore should make our arguments more particular than general. On this note, I will share my own opinions about what you wrote.
"Reading through these threads really make me sad. What is the fight about? At some point folks have to realized that they are in fact 'hitting their heads against the wall and common sense dictates that you stop before you crack your brains."
General statements like this, without creating any basis for what you are talking about, makes the argument appears cloudy and instead of giving clarity creates confusion.
Indeed, there is a fight. And the fight is about something. What Gambians are witnessing is an intellectual battle in which we are trying to shape the destiny of our country.
We have all taken up positions, and we will all defend our positions with vigor, and we will challenge each others ideas about how to govern our country, until we build consensus around the most democratic underpinnings through which we can do so.
The Gambia's situation is so precarious, to the extend that some people are calling for an insurrection, political instability and all what not, because the absence of the conditions for making peaceful change possible are creating the conditions for making violent change inevitable.
Thank GOD, we are blessed with people of utmost integrity and political vision who will never allow our country to disintegrate.
However, our political differences are genuine. They have a basis. We have to understand the basis of our political arguments to truly define where we stand on the issues. If we don't do this we will just be shouting over each other.
Now coming to the arguments. I am a supporter of PDOIS. I support them for what they represent more that anything else.
I support an idea. I support a concept about the building and consolidation of a democratic culture that will expand the freedom and liberty of its citizens, as well as create the institutional and structural frameworks that will promote the rule of law.
I support the building and consolidation of a democratic culture that will harness Power, to the extend that it is responsible, checked and balanced. To me this is where PDOIS is winning the argument, and where I always find myself coming to their defense. Not that they cannot defend themselves.
When the idea of forming an alliance of all opposition political parties arose, they help to create a document that reflected on the values that I have mentioned above. We all know what was the outcome.
When the second idea of forming an alliance of all opposition political parties arose, without taking into consideration the fundamental disagreements that are at the core of why PDOIS is not supporting a UDP-led coalition, you just expect PDOIS to go along willingly.
"It was a great democratic exercise that Gambia is yearning to have and build our society around it... BUT the fact of the matter is that we are not there and will never be there until we find a way FIRST to remove the obstacle."
The question is how do we remove the obstacle? UDP proffered one option of doing it. PDOIS proffered another option of doing it. People have taken positions to defend each option. This is how matters stand.
Let us now leave the people to decide. It is just a matter of weeks. Notwithstanding what the outcome will be, the evolutionary process will continue and all the contradictions will come to the fore.
"The picture you are seeing at the signing ceremony are supposed to be post Jammeh and at the end of a transition."
How do you bring about this transition? And what transition do you envisage? Something completely new or a continuation of the status quo?
"There is absolutely NO democracy in Gambia today and to deny that is simply to live in a dream land and fantasy..."
And so.
"The outcome of that signing ceremony is a fantasy as it will take you NO where regardless of how many photo OPS we have."
What then will take us anywhere? If a udp-led alliance, how is that so?
"I cannot believe that a ceremony of such is so important to people who have despise any form of photo ops for the sake of it all their lives..
And so?
"I cannot believe that the question of WHAT NEXT or what is the outcome of this signing ceremony can be overlooked by people who are supposedly so intellectual and have been in the forefront...
No matter, how many papers you sign, No matter how many conventions you conduct, no matter how historic this event is perceive to be, the ultimate outcome is a disgraceful defeat and back to their mini camps..."
All these things you are saying would it be any different if PDOIS was to support a UDP-LED alliance and how so?
"Anything less than having all the major players there is simply a futile exercise as far as Nov elections and beyond."
Ok! so what? How are you to bring the major players together who have categorically and definitively stake their positions? They can all live, I would presume, to fight another day. Could they not?
"This is a futile exercise that will go down in the history books as a waste of time of a nation yearning for change!!!!"
What is not a futile exercise? And what is the change that the nation is yearning for? And what nation are you talking about? A voting population that has rejected the UDP'S different alliances for change on three different occasions. In 1996 when remnants of the P.P.P. and NCP formed the UDP. In 2001 when the UDP formed and alliance with P.P.P., and in 2006 when NRP and PPP form and alliance with the UDP.
WHAT makes you think having PDOIS AND NRP support UDP this time around could make a difference?
"Am simply disappointed that they will go this route with or without consequencies to the Gambia people!!! Go figure!!!
The consequences have always been there. If you have to apportioned blame do so accordingly.
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics
Sankalanka, again I like your arguements but what I see is that you answer a lot of my questions with a " And so... meaning you don't care about the outcome... correct me if am wrong.
Now to begin with my opening statement is very clear unless you want to confuse yourself on it... I stated that the signing ceremony was a great democratic exercise and vision that we want to have in Gambia some day. I followed that up with another statement indicating that the opposition parties keep doing the same thing without success and they should realize it and stop now.
You are right we all have the right to take up our different positions, and I want to make my very clear without an iota of doubt..
I strongly believe that endorsing the party with the largest voting constituents is what gives us the best chance to win this election against APRC. I know this is difficult for political parties to do, but it is what gives us the chance to get to that vision of democratic Gambia.
I also strongly believe that PDOIS folks can and will have a greater impact in helping bring about the needed reforms if they are part of party in power who is willing to work with them and empower them to help craft the needed changes... constitutional reform, electoral policies etc etc.
If the UDP are willing to share a government with all the opposition parties and are willing to form a task force of all the opposition parties to decide on how to govern the country even before winning the elections, I think that is a risk Halifa and others should take.
Sankalanka, there is nothing guranteed in politics, I believe that UDP has this time around presented itself where something great can come out of an opposition unity around it...
See Sankalanka, I have been a sympathiser of PDOIS as well in the past and records here shows that I was one of the biggest supporters of NADD. I believed and continue to believe that the NADD formula was a great one to bring about change in Gambia. We know how the rest of the story went with NADD and now this convention.
Sankalanka, once again my take is clear... rally around the party that gives us the best chance to win... this same vision of a democractic Gambia being paraded at the signing of the MOU could have been presented at the endorsement of a UDP led coalition as a condition of support.
If these parties have recognized UDP's electoral map, come to a meeting and lay out this document and ask for all to sign off on, we could have had a strong coalition and will be on our way to victory come Nov 24. This would have given us the opportunity to rebuild our democratic institutions and reform our nation.
Now, supposedly they win the elections and then UDP start to turn around which I think is the fear many have, then the battle for our country will continue And this will be so regardless of who is in power... This is my stand and it is crystal clear.
Thanks
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Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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pasamba
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 19:27:20
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This is nothing but hot air. First, Assan Martin did not attend a single meeting during the UDP initiated talks. The GMC was represented at those meetings by Mr. Muhammed Fatty, who is believed to be Mai’s brother. When the issue of the GMC being represented by presumed brother of the party leader, was brought up on the Jamano show , Mai fatty responded that his relations to the Muhammed fatty was irrelevant, that what was important was that the GMC had a LEGITIMATE representative at the meeting.
Now we can all agree that the GMC was legitimately represented at the talks. On the first day of the talks, Mr. Muhammed fatty reechoed his party’s initial stance to endorse a UDP led alliance, however, towards the end of the meeting Mr. Fatty “ in as much as we support a party-led, let’s go to the people and give them a chance. I support a convention”. When the motion was made by PDOIS for a convention, it was Muhammed fatty of the GMC who seconded the motion and it was the same Muhammed fatty who signed the press release on his own will. So to sit here and conjure up things up for the sake of it is purely ridiculous and outright dishonest.
As for Assan Martin signing the MOU, it was made very clear from the very first meeting that PDOIS would even entertain having an candidate who is not in any party. So Assan Martin signed as an independent person who wants to run, and if selected will do just that.
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"True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice." Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 19:27:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
Someone please tell me this ain’t so. Will you? - Mathew K JallowSource: Maafanta
MAAFANTA WITH A REACTION BY Malick KahMATHEW JALLOW'S BLIND HATRED
"Mathew Jallow a serial PDOIS hater and founding member of GAMBIA COALITION FOR CHANGE, never hesitates to castigate PDOIS at any opportune time, it makes one wonder what his agenda is? Of course PDOIS is not beyond or immune to criticism and any political party worthy of its salt has to be open to any form of criticism? For without constructive criticism one cannot appreciate ones limitations and therefore mistakes, but by the same token political parties reserve the right to respond to any criticism that is vindictive, unjust and mundane? Therefore a criticism that attacks the very essence and integrity of a party must not be left unattended, for without integrity a party is worth nothing. It is therefore incumbent upon members of a party or an organisation to recognise what is genuine criticism and what is dishonest criticism?
In the case of Mathew Jalow his constant attacks against the party cannot be ignored simply because it is infantile, full of distortion and blatantly prejudice. To ignore his ramblings would be to condone lies and fabrications constantly pelted against the party, hence as a member of the party I take it upon myself to challenge and expose his hatred and vindictiveness.
PDOIS as a party, like any organisation can be fallible and therefore cannot claim to be perfect, but it is a party composed of members who undoubtedly filled with goodwill and selflessness, the evidence to that can be found in the composition of the leadership, their humility and self sacrifice can be testified to by many Gambians who have come into contact with them.
The crop of leadership at PDOIS is the type that had forgone everything in the name of the struggle to liberate and raise the consciousness of the Gambian people, to the extend that they own not a lot in material terms and even this humility is misconstrue by some people , and refer to them as not being aspirational. Notwithstanding all these, deprivations, they are as committed today as they were yesterday putting their resources time and effort to raise the awareness of the people, their level of committed to the country is beyond doubt, one may disagree with their policies or style of politics, but one cannot question their patriotism.
Unlike Mathew Jallow they did not leave the shores of the country and set up proxy organisations to challenge the status quo, they are there facing all the trials and tribulations of living under a dictatorship, with virtually no support from voyeurs like Mathew. Unlike Mathew they have set up a political party with a vision, their programme is known to the people, hence it is left with the people to give them mandate to govern the affairs of the nation, such an act cannot be imposed it can only be sought.
PDOIS is a decent political organisation, founded on very firm principles and policies designed and agreed upon by all party members and implemented by the Central Committee elected at every congress. Contrary to popular belief, it is not a party run at the caprices and whims of a few. In fact it is a party that is very consultative,open minded and genuinely democratic, members are constantly consulted and decisions are taken on the basis of the strength of reasoning, rather than imposition.
The agreement for the formation of the coalition had been a decision based on principles and not on cheap popularity, but evidently there are people who are oppose to this modus operandi, and that is expected and can be accommodated in any democratic dispensation. But to continue with a mundane argument simply because of want of expediency over principles that PDOIS by hook or crook should succumb to the dictates of others is both unreasonable and disingenuous. Such a myopic way of reasoning cannot be accepted and endorsed by PDOIS members. Yes we want a united front, but it has to have genuine and democratic basis otherwise it would be invalid and non workable. We cannot enter a united front at all cost? A united front has to be based on firm principles and agreements well defined to the inclusion of all, but to insist that PDOIS should just take what other parties proposed without taking into account the ramifications will not be endorsed. We as a party will never sacrifice principles at the altar of expediency. Critics like Mathew Jallow has nothing to offer since they are full of hatred and bias against PDOIS. His lack of understanding of the party's programme indicts him as a dishonest intellectual who just like to appear to make cheap rhetorical point scoring.
We knew and appreciated that the none participation of UDP in a united front is detrimental to the chance of dethroning Jammeh and this can have a lasting damage; but so do the UDP and that was precisely why all the parties were locked into a prolonged negotiation, but without a convergence of positions it was deemed that going ahead with the other parties is the right thing to do. After all they have their belief as to how a united front can be forged and others have a differing opinion? Hence minds cannot meet and we all appreciate the consequences attendant to a divided opposition? How can one blame one against the other? The responsibility of the failure must be shared by all.
Going by past experiences, people can enter into binding agreements and opt out of them without any notice or tangible reason, to avert such a scenario befalling the opposition again, any new thing to be constructed must be consultative and written in very unambiguous terms, any party with reservation to such simple but necessary demand will be found wanting and therefore can opt out and this is what has happened? Hence to continue to lay the blame for failure, for an all inclusive unity, squarely, at the door steps of PDOIS is blatant dishonesty, because all the parties most take responsibility? This is precisely what Mathew Jallow and his ilk failed to do.
Mathew Jallow has nothing to offer to the process, he would rather sit on the side line throw invectives devoid of any credibility, or put up proposals that has no bearing to the issue,punctuating his assertions with frivolities calling party members names that are unwarranted? Does he think he is more intelligent than those who had made the choice out of their own volition of becoming PDOIS members, if he feels that way, he most be the most arrogant and small minded guy I have ever seen. As adults don't you think we have the capacity, just like you, to analyse and make judgements. What makes you think we are followers and not members who have input in the policies and programmes of the party.
If anything, going by GCC the ill-fated organisation you spearheaded, you have shown that you are a naive adventurist with amateurish political skills, if not you would not have embarked with such a type of organisation so ill prepared to tackle Jammeh .
If you had a clue you will not make such stupid school boy errors that has landed treason charges upon unsuspecting and very innocent people. Under the circumstances,the most onerous thing you should have been occupied with, should have been devoting any sinew of energy you have towards helping those colleagues of yours locked up in mile two with little hope of getting out, instead of concentrating your fire power on that pressing issue to which you are the main architect, you are having good time taking up issues with people whose vocation on a daily basis is liaising with families of victims of the regime, helping and providing them with all sorts of advice and assistance.
Instead of constantly castigating PDOIS, you should liaise with them, be part of the forces like them, work out the best way of helping your colleagues and many others incarcerated wrongly for political reasons and held in mile two.
The struggle is a collective responsibility, we all have a role to play, therefore we most not knock down those on the ground doing their utmost, whilst we are sitting on our citadels of comfort throwing all sorts of demagoguery, brow beating and pounding our chest whiles being miles away from the clutches of this sanguinary regime. If you had half the courage and audacity of those people you would have been in the country and acting what you preach, but until then your sermons of bravery will be nothing but hot air being blown in the wind.
One thing is certain though, you cannot deter PDOIS from its mission, through thick and thin their members have been there with the Gambian people, living their trials and tribulations, you may disagree with their politics but you can never fault them for their sincerity and knowledge.
It is unfortunate that UDP did not join the convention, from the declaration of the signing of the MOU, it was clear that PDOIS are not interested in contesting the leadership, but they are interested in a fair and judicious process, which would be all inclusive, we are not in the habit of crowning people, after all we are democrats and for that matter every democratic person must be willing to subject him or herself to a democratic procedure or process, one cannot expect to be anointed in this day and age of accountability, if we call for those virtues we must also live them what is there to be afraid of in a process that is transparent and accommodating?
Having said that PDOIS with their allies will continue on their coalition journey irrespective of what Mathew Jallow has to say, after all it is people like Mathew who ill-advised people to the extend that they are charged with treason, instead of mounting a vigorous campaign mobilising all democratic and progressive forces? He is alienating a significant cross section of sympathisers. How clever is that to you and your victim colleagues.
People like Mathew Jallow, will never be satisfied by whatever PDOIS does nor will they ever accommodate Halifa for whatever reason and this is evident from, his rants and insinuations directed constantly at the person of Halifa Sallah, more than anything else exposes his unprincipled, biased and flawed judgement against a party and a person he has personal hatred and despise. I am not holding brief for Halifa for he is more than capable of defending himself and he should be criticised where criticism is due but if it becomes personal and full of invective, truth would be said about the character of the person? Character assasination will take us no where? Let us look at our differences iron them out and face the regime that has usurped the rights of the people. The blame game must stop and we configure how to align our efforts, but people like Mathew are not helping but hindering such noble aspirations.
PDOIS IS HERE TO STAY LOVE IT OR LOATH IT. LONG LIVE THE STRUGGLE, ALUTA CONTINUA"Maafanta.com |
Edited by - kobo on 01 Nov 2011 19:32:51 |
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