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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Apr 2011 : 04:31:40
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A CHALLENGING EXERCISE 
I THINK THERE COULD BE A MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH FOR MOBILISATION OF UNITED FRONT; FROM THESE DOCUMENTS FOR THOROUGH REVIEW AND ANALYSIS
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Edited by - kobo on 13 Apr 2011 11:22:24 |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2011 : 11:06:50
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Naughty Kobo,toubab humour  , but sadly very true,still no sign of any cohesion between the fragmented opposition parties.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 11:26:25
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TO START WITH "PARTY-LED COALITION" HAS BEEN COINED BY ITS PROPONENTS; ESPECIALLY WITHIN SS DAFFEH/NYARINKANGBANNA/UDP-UK
THERE IS NO "PARTY-LED" COALITION WORLD-WIDE? IT APPEARS TO BE A FALLACY AND I DON'T THINK MANY OF US UNDERSTAND IT
AM ASSUMING THAT IT MAY IMPLY THAT; "ALL PARTIES MUST BE LED BY ....(IDON'T KNOW "WHAT" AND "INTO WHAT"...OR "LION SHARE FOR A MAJOR PARTY")
WHAT MAKES SENSE TO ME IS UDP-LED COALITION
COALITIONS EXIST BETWEEN POLITICAL PARTIES TO FIND A COMMON GROUND AND STRATEGY IF THEY ARE CONFRONTED WITH POLITICAL CRISES; IDEALLY FORM AN ALLIANCE (OF AFFILIATED PARTIES) AND CONTAIN IT
WELCOME TO PROOF ME WRONG |
Edited by - kobo on 14 Apr 2011 15:18:01 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 23:59:38
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INTERESTING COMMENTS CULLED FROM GAMBIA-L;
"On 30 April 2011 10:53, UDP United Kingdom <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Like I said before, coalitions are not negotiated in the media but behind closed doors. There is a reason why the GMC came out with a statement of intent and one of it is because they have been engaged by the udp. OJ too will not certainly say he was not engaged by the udp nor will Hamat. These are the people/parties who willingly met us at the table. PDOIS on the other hand, crudely refused to do so and therefore, no proposal either verbal or written will be extended to them unless they agreed to meet the UDP at the table.
I am not going to respond to Demba Baldeh as he is a clueless attention seeker.
Pa samba, I have realised the need for a coalition with or without pdois since day one. When I first joined STGDP conference calls, this is the first thing I said. Musa Jeng very reluctantly gave a qualified support to the idea while that naive Banka manneh and the hysteric Joe sambou were like what?
I repeat once again, the udp will not put any proposal in the media to feed anybody's obsession. Our proposal will only be presented to parties who agree to meet us at the table, period. This is how coalitions are negotiated and it is the route we followed with the other parties i.e. PPP, GMC and NRP. I wonder why pdois should be given a different treatment.
UDP is very much aware of the fact that the other opposition parties and leaders are not baskets that we can put on our head and carry along. They have to be willing to come alone with us and if they choose not to, well there is nothing we can do about that.
I am not aware of any concession demand from OJ’s P.P.P that is not met by the UDP neither did I hear any declaration of intent by PDOIS, to be part of a UDP led alliance with conditions attached.
PDOIS is much about their Ayatollah’s Agenda 1444 and the gratification of his persona than anything else.
Kind Regards
Daffeh" |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 13:17:10
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Culled from the G-L
I think Musa Jeng has vindicated my position on STGDP here. I have always maintained to the UDP that this group is a bunch of dishonest and insincere incompetents who no serious political party should look up to in facilitating a coalition with other political parties.
This guy [Musa Jeng] was on the conference call when Karamba Touray was crying for help from the STGDP to help bring Halifa Sallah and his pdois party to the table so that they can sit down with the UDP representatives [ousainu included] and iron-out their differences. He also posited to the group that there is a UDP proposal on the table containing overtures and concessions for pdois and that it was only a matter of having pdois at the table for the process to begin. This was after Alhagi Ousainu Darboe tried several times to talk to Halifa Sallah in person but without success- halifa maintained and very crudely that he doesn't want to talk to ousainu. They [Stgdp] too tried their best to talk to halifa and get him at the table but he [halifa] was running away from them prompting the same Musa JENG to say that Ousainu Darboe should be commended since he is the only one who always picks his phone anytime the stgdp calls.
We [Karamba and I] also informed them about the talks the udp had with the other parties [PPP, NRP and GMC] at the initiation of the UDP. It was ousainu who single handily worked out and led those talks after been given a mandate by the UDP. It was the same Ousainu Darboe who drove from his residence in Pipeline to meet Hon. Sidia Jatta at Last Bundung for talks as part of his overtures to pdois- this was after halifa explicitly stated that he does not want to talk to ousainu- only for halifa sallah to arrogantly turn around and say sidia doesn't represent them.
Given these facts, I wonder how on earth any reasonable person can conclude that ousainu is not prepared to sit with other leaders and make serious overtures. I know Musa Jeng is a very reasonable guy; he just happened to be very dishonest and insincere on this issue.
If the idea is to get Ousainu on freedom or any other public forum to openly negotiate a coalition with the likes of Halifa Sallah, then the STGDP is up for a long wait as that will never happen. Coalitions are always negotiated behind closed doors and the UDP will not depart from that convention just to feed the obsession of few incompetents.
Talking about demonstrating leadership skills in a competitive way; Musa Jeng should be reminded that none of these opposition leaders are opponents of Ousainu. These people can only be allies of ousainu or nothing else. Thus, they are not the people that Ousainu will look forward to competing with. He rather have President Yahya Jammeh on the show to compete with as he [Jammeh] is the incumbent while Ousainu is the main opposition leader.
The udp don’t' care about what goes on in NADD as we are not and will never be part of that organisation. Therefore, it will be helpful if Musa jeng can save us from his NADD eulogy.
As far as the UDP is concern, the nadd issue is an antiquated one that has not only been rendered obsolete but also utterly meaningless to talk about in this coalition debate.
I will make a case to the UDP about the STGDP once again. The aim is to have a severed relation between them and the UDP. The STGDP thinks they mattered when in fact, they don’t.
Kind Regards
Daffeh |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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sankalanka
270 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 15:51:44
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"This guy [Musa Jeng] was on the conference call when Karamba Touray was crying for help from the STGDP to help bring Halifa Sallah and his pdois party to the table so that they can sit down with the UDP representatives [ousainu included] and iron-out their differences.
He also posited to the group that there is a UDP proposal on the table containing overtures and concessions for pdois and that it was only a matter of having pdois at the table for the process to begin.
This was after Alhagi Ousainu Darboe tried several times to talk to Halifa Sallah in person but without success- halifa maintained and very crudely that he doesn't want to talk to ousainu.
They [Stgdp] too tried their best to talk to halifa and get him at the table but he [halifa] was running away from them prompting the same Musa JENG to say that Ousainu Darboe should be commended since he is the only one who always picks his phone anytime the stgdp calls."
Daffeh, I have very serious reservations as a concerned Gambian citizen, if this is the manner and way in which attempts were made to negotiate the future of our country.
This is the most crudest approach to deal with issues of such tremendous importance, particularly issues that deals with the hopes, aspirations and prosperity of the Gambian people.
And you mean to tell me that attempts were made to convene a meeting, so as to make deals on how to share the spoils of power when you coalition succeeded to take over the reins of power.
This is just unbelievable. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 17:38:13
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Sankalanka!
They may be unbelievable UDP official position and what actually transpired but these opinions, statements and declarations should be handled very seriously and addressed accordingly; to resolve the set-backs, complex issues of coalition building or forming a united front as an ideal political strategy and underlying tactical decisions However late it may be the records must be set straight for posterity
A MIRROR IMAGE OF WHO IS OUR RE-KNOWN FRIEND; UDP WIZ-KID, SPOKESMAN, SPIN MASTER, CYBER-WARRIOR, "BULLY", LEADER AND DECISION-MAKER; WITH EDWARD SINGHATEH
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Originally posted by kayjatta
Wecome Dbaldeh. what do you guys think should be the fate of Edward Singhateh , now that he has stepped out of executive immunity? Will he go scott free , and subsequently will Jammeh get away with all he has done? Should the law professors , students and the Bar Association accept Edward considering his human rights record as an AFPRC key player vis avis koro Ceesay and others...?Quote:
As the saying goes ' give the devil his due'. In that respect I would like to say he used to give us lift in his official car when I was at Gambia High School.
This is just to balance things here. It doesn't mean anything.
Thanks
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 21 Sep 2007 16:50:17"
THAT'S DAFFEH OUR POLITICAL MAVERICK
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Edited by - kobo on 02 May 2011 02:19:31 |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 17:45:58
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quote:
Originally posted by sankalanka
"This guy [Musa Jeng] was on the conference call when Karamba Touray was crying for help from the STGDP to help bring Halifa Sallah and his pdois party to the table so that they can sit down with the UDP representatives [ousainu included] and iron-out their differences.
He also posited to the group that there is a UDP proposal on the table containing overtures and concessions for pdois and that it was only a matter of having pdois at the table for the process to begin.
This was after Alhagi Ousainu Darboe tried several times to talk to Halifa Sallah in person but without success- halifa maintained and very crudely that he doesn't want to talk to ousainu.
They [Stgdp] too tried their best to talk to halifa and get him at the table but he [halifa] was running away from them prompting the same Musa JENG to say that Ousainu Darboe should be commended since he is the only one who always picks his phone anytime the stgdp calls."
Daffeh, I have very serious reservations as a concerned Gambian citizen, if this is the manner and way in which attempts were made to negotiate the future of our country.
This is the most crudest approach to deal with issues of such tremendous importance, particularly issues that deals with the hopes, aspirations and prosperity of the Gambian people.
And you mean to tell me that attempts were made to convene a meeting, so as to make deals on how to share the spoils of power when you coalition succeeded to take over the reins of power.
This is just unbelievable.
This was after all formal ways were exhausted and without success. It was the supporters of udp and members of Stdgp who were trying to pick up the pieces and salvage the process and we failed too. Therefore, you must read this piece in the context that it is given.
Thanks |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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sankalanka
270 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 18:19:09
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"This was after all formal ways were exhausted and without success. It was the supporters of udp and members of Stdgp who were trying to pick up the pieces and salvage the process and we failed too. Therefore, you must read this piece in the context that it is given.
Thanks
Daffeh, thanks for the clarification. I wonder though what were the formal ways exhausted.
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 18:24:37
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quote:
Originally posted by sankalanka
"This was after all formal ways were exhausted and without success. It was the supporters of udp and members of Stdgp who were trying to pick up the pieces and salvage the process and we failed too. Therefore, you must read this piece in the context that it is given.
Thanks
Daffeh, thanks for the clarification. I wonder though what were the formal ways exhausted.
Rene, confidentiality reasons. Coalitions are not negotiated in the media but behind closed doors.
Thanks |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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sankalanka
270 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 19:19:05
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"Rene, confidentiality reasons. Coalitions are not negotiated in the media but behind closed doors."
Ok! You can have your negotiations behind close doors. But since you are negotiating about the future of a country, don't you think it is proper that those for whom you are negotiating, the citizens of that country, have a right to know what you are negotiating on their behalf. Maybe they can even make one or two contributions that you may also consider as part of your negotiations.
On the basis of the above, don't you think it is proper for the negotiating parties to prepare an outline of what they would like to negotiate about concerning the future of the country; make these outlines available to the public, and even whereas you would be negotiating behind closed doors, the public will have a general idea of what your different positions are, and what also are the contentious issues on which you will negotiate upon.
I will let you respond on what I have surmise so far; and if you disagree please explain why.
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Janyanfara
Tanzania
1350 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 01:49:07
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| Master of all fools in the Gambia.Jammeh's agent on bantaba. We are going to unite despite your efforts to disunite us.All oppositions are comming against you Jammeh with one voice ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 02:18:30
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quote:
Originally posted by sankalanka
"Rene, confidentiality reasons. Coalitions are not negotiated in the media but behind closed doors."
Ok! You can have your negotiations behind close doors. But since you are negotiating about the future of a country, don't you think it is proper that those for whom you are negotiating, the citizens of that country, have a right to know what you are negotiating on their behalf. Maybe they can even make one or two contributions that you may also consider as part of your negotiations.
On the basis of the above, don't you think it is proper for the negotiating parties to prepare an outline of what they would like to negotiate about concerning the future of the country; make these outlines available to the public, and even whereas you would be negotiating behind closed doors, the public will have a general idea of what your different positions are, and what also are the contentious issues on which you will negotiate upon.
I will let you respond on what I have surmise so far; and if you disagree please explain why.
Rene, we are not negotiating a coalition with the citizens of the country but with the other opposition parties. All we seek from the citizens is votes in return for better services and security to uplift their living standards. That means if there is anything we would like to sell to the people, it is our party programmes that are intended to realise this goal.
Thanks |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 16:58:15
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RELEVANT INTERESTING EXCHANGES ON MULTI-PARTY ALTERNATIVE (COALITION) DEBATES CULLED FROM GAMBIA-L POSTED FROM: Suntu Touray, Daffeh & Musa Jeng;
"The Lib Dems and the Tories were never known to be friends. In Fact, in most cases, these people don't see eye to eye on issues BUT do you know why it was possible for them to forge a coalition? It was because they both acknowledged and adhered to the conventional and universally recognised and accepted principles of coalition building in the national interest. There was no question about who should lead; it is always going to be the biggest party. The issue was only about the programmes that they would like to preside over to uplift the living standards of British citizens and residents including my humble self." Daffeh
An excellent observation. The UDP is open to discuss whatever programs a potential Coalition government is to have. We will talk on all issues, we will give concession on certain major issues, but our position as the bigger party is not up for discussions. It did not happen in India, not in Brazil, or Guinea. Hence those wishing to say the truth will acknowledge this fact. But then, we are all aware of our complex relationships. Thanks Daffeh for highligthing this facts.
Suntou
On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 4:22 PM, UDP United Kingdom <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
''Forget about putting out in the media, how about having one and discuss it with the very people you want to lead in a coaltion. It is not insane to show people what you have. I really love it when you draw this analogy on how it is done in Britain, even though in Britain the coalition was for the formation of a government. THe last time I check we are yet to win the election.'' - Musa JENG.
Brother Musa, it is ok for you to say this as you represents no political party neither are you a party leader. However, I don’t think OJ, mai fatty or hamat will say the same. As for Halifa, It would be shameless of him to even contemplate saying this since he has crudely refused to talk to the UDP leader despite having been personally chased by ousainu darboe on almost every line of communication. |
Edited by - kobo on 02 May 2011 17:17:19 |
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sankalanka
270 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 17:40:54
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"Rene, we are not negotiating a coalition with the citizens of the country but with the other opposition parties. All we seek from the citizens is votes in return for better services and security to uplift their living standards. That means if there is anything we would like to sell to the people, it is our party programmes that are intended to realise this goal."
If all you seek from the citizens is their votes to provide for them better services and security to uplift their living standards, then you may have the opportunity in the forthcoming presidential and parliamentary elections, for the people to determine based on what you have to offer whether you can earn their votes. Thus this part of the deal is between your party and the people. We will, however, patiently wait to know what will be the verdict of the people.
If you want to negotiate a coalition with the other opposition parties, and as a supporter and sympathizer of an opposition political party, I would definitely like to know what your party wants to negotiate upon given that the party I support have already made their position public.
I am quite confident that PDOIS will not negotiate anything with any other opposition political party outside what they have already made public. We therefore know all the details of what they would be negotiating upon. They are just not into making back door deals. That is why everything is in the open. JAHARANG.
Now when it comes to negotiations, there are always protocols that one should follow. And I believe PDOIS is very much aware of this. You just don't pick up the telephone and call someone and try to make some arrangements to facilitate a negotiation. No. I consider this very crude.
Since political parties have programs that they want to sell to the people, and since your programs are different from PDOIS's programs, if there is a desire to form a coalition the first step would have been a letter of intent from one party to the other or vice versa. Then you would have known from the beginning whether that desire to form a coalition is possible or not. Moreover there would have been material evidence to establish that a correspondence has taken place.
Secondly, once the letter of intent has established that a negotiation is desirable, the next step would be to create a framework that would specifically address all the issues that are to be negotiated upon.
Since PDOIS's position is public we know the specific issues that they would want to negotiate upon. Let me give a few examples:
1. They prefer that a coalition will not be led by any particular party, but that all the parties can put their efforts and resources together, and choose amongst themselves or outside of the party structure someone who they can nominate as a presidential candidate. PDOIS's method of selecting this person is through a primary, but they are also open to other options. (I will dilate on this point further to show why I preferably like this option, given that we have an executive presidency.)
2. They prefer a transitional government of three to five years, and in that interim a rectification program would be carried out to institute programs and structures that would prepare the country for genuine multi-party democratic dispensation. The president of the transitional government cannot run for reelection neither can he/she support any other candidate. There would also be a presidential term limits of not more than two 5year term.
3. In the appointment of ministerial positions, PDOIS would prefer that each ministry would be headed by someone who is directly connected to that office. Hence the Justice ministry would be headed by someone nominated by the bar association and appointed by the president. Likewise all the other ministries would follow the same format of people being nominated by those trade associations and appointed by the president.
4. There are so many other issues that PDOIS has made public, that would also be central to any negotiations. Not to talk of Agenda 2011.
So we know PDOIS's position, it is very public.
Now what do we know about UDP's positions? Or is it that we are not supposed to know, but only for the ears of the opposition political parties that agrees to sit at your negotiating table? |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2011 : 15:59:37
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Sankalanka I have raised all your points and observations above; especially mainstream opposition parties following proper formal communication channels to seriously consider a strategy against Jammeh/APRC
HOW DID UDP/NRP HANDLED THIS PDOIS DECLARATION ON A PRESS RELEASE DATED 28-06-10 AS FOLLOWS;
"PDOIS wrote to UDP before its Congress to indicate to them that the party was waiting for the resolution of the UDP Congress on inter party unity in order to know what form of Alliance could be forged for 2011. "
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Edited by - kobo on 03 May 2011 16:00:49 |
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