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gambia-l: LOG9711E - Digest 95

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Momodou	Posted - 10 Sep 2021 : 15:16:39 GAMBIA-L Digest 95 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) new member by "Gassamaba omar" <kassama@hotmail.com> 2) mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report) by "Jobst M�nderlein" <joppl@hotmail.com> 3) (Fwd) Maladmnistration by chakys@image.dk 4) Color again.. by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 5) Re: mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report) by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) 6) Re: new member by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) 7) Re: mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report) by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 8) Re: Tragic death of a Gambian lady by Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> 9) Fwd: Distance Learning Initiative in Ghana by Andy Lyons <alyons@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> 10) Re: orbituary by KTouray@aol.com 11) Re: Color again.. by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 12) Brief introduction by "fafanding fatajo" <ffatajo@hotmail.com> 13) Brief introduction by "fafanding fatajo" <ffatajo@hotmail.com> 14) Re: orbituary by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh) 15) Re: orbituary by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 16) Inquiry About Membership To The List by BAKSAWA@aol.com 17) The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 18) Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate by Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu> 19) Re: Color again.. by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 20) Re: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 21) Re: Color again.. by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 22) Fwd: Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 23) Fwd: Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 24) New members by "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com> 25) Re: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? by M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> 26) Ditah( KESEMBEBAA) by Sompo.Sinyan@udac.se (Sompo Sinyan) 27) Re: orbituary by Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> 28) Re: orbituary by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh) 29) Re: orbituary by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 30) Re: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 31) New members by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) 32) by Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> 33) Re: Fwd: Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 34) Re: Ditah( KESEMBEBAA) by "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu> 35) Re: color trouble.. by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 36) Re: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate -Reply by Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu> 37) appology by Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> 38) Re: 50 Dalasi Notes On The Offer by SAMBA NJIE <snjie@gis.net> 39) Hypocrisy or Ignorance...... by lamin marenah <keita@rocketmail.com> 40) Obituary by SANG1220@aol.com 41) Re: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate -Reply by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 42) FW: Life Insurance (fwd) by Compaq Customer <seela@oz.net> 43) Re: Ditah( KESEMBEBAA)APPOLOGY by Sompo.Sinyan@udac.se (Sompo Sinyan) 44) RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no 45) RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no 46) RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? by Abdoulie Dibba <adibba@online.no> 47) RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no 48) I ask for a one break. by Said Quamar <Said.Quamar@Aviaplan.no> 49) Another act of terror by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 50) RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? by chakys@image.dk 51) When Intellectuals argue.... by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 52) Coups and even more Coups by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 53) Observer Online Update...anyone? by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 54) What was Bill thinking? by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 55) Re: Observer Online Update...anyone? by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) 56) New member by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) 57) Re- quote of the day by Gunjur@aol.com 58) Re: orbituary by Mamadou S Jallow <bala@algonet.se> 59) Re-tragic death of= burial arrangements by Gunjur@aol.com 60) Re: What was Bill thinking? by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 61) Re: Jainaba's NASTY& STINKY attitude!!! by Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu> 62) Kuntaur Fullah kunda by Gunjur@aol.com 63) wrong route by Gunjur@aol.com 64) My take.......... by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 65) Re: Obituary by BAKSAWA@aol.com 66) My take as per private postings...... by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 67) Re: Re-tragic death of= burial arrangements by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com> 68) Re: Obituary by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com> 69) Re:Introduction by "EBRIMA JOBE" <jebrima@hotmail.com> 70) Color by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 71) Re: Another act of terror by MJagana@aol.com 72) Re: Another act of terror by Ousman Gajigo <gajigoo@wabash.edu> 73) Re: Hypocrisy or Ignorance...... by MJagana@aol.com 74) Re: When Intellectuals argue.... by badjie karafa sw <badjiek@unixg.ubc.ca> 75) Re: My take.......... by "Heidi Skramstad" <heidis@amadeus.cmi.no> 76) The slave house in Jangjanbureh (Georgetown) by "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com> 77) Re: My take.......... by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 78) new member by Fafa Sanyang <fsanyang@is2.dal.ca> 79) RE: Re-tragic death of= burial arrangements by Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com> 80) Re: Another act of terror by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 81) Re: Kuntaur Fullah kunda by Adama Cham <A.Cham@reading.ac.uk> 82) RE: White sports in White America.... by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no 83) Re: Kuntaur Fullah kunda by globexinc@erols.com 84) Re: Another act of terror by globexinc@erols.com 85) Help...anyone? by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 86) Re: Hypocrisy or Ignorance...... by globexinc@erols.com 87) Re: Another act of terror by globexinc@erols.com 88) Re: Obituary by globexinc@erols.com 89) Re: Help...anyone? by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 90) Re: Obituary by globexinc@erols.com 91) Re: When Intellectuals argue.... by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> 92) Re: When Intellectuals argue.... by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 93) cab drivers's murder by globexinc@erols.com 94) Had enough of Jai Diallo! by Gunjur@aol.com 95) Re: Color by Gunjur@aol.com 96) Re: Color by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 97) Slavehouse at Janjangbureh by Gunjur@aol.com 98) Subscription by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> 99) Liberia on the US by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 100) The Value of Time (fwd) by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 101) Re: The Value of Time (fwd) by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 102) Re: Subscription by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM> 103) Re: My take.......... by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 104) Re: Subscription by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM> 105) Re: new member by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM> 106) RE: Color by Keretha Cash <kcash@RBVDNR.com> 107) by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez) 108) Re: When Intellectuals argue.... -Reply by Sukai Gaye <sg125909@gwmail.kysu.edu> 109) Had enough of Jai Diallo! -Reply by Sukai Gaye <sg125909@gwmail.kysu.edu> 110) Re: Color by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 111) Re: Color by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 112) Re: My take.......... by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 113) RE: White sports in White America.... by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 114) Re: Liberia on the US by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 115) Re: color trouble.. by M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> 116) suggestion by KTouray@aol.com 117) Re: color trouble.. by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 118) Re:tragic death - Cash Reward by MJawara@aol.com 119) Help! by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no 120) 1993 Census by "Heidi Skramstad" <heidis@amadeus.cmi.no> 121) Re: color trouble.. by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 122) Subscription of New Member by S Njie <S.Njie@commonwealth.int> 123) Re: color trouble.. by Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu> 124) Re: Subscription of New Member by "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com> 125) by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez) 126) Re: color trouble.. by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 127) New Member by "Gassamaba omar" <kassama@hotmail.com> 128) Re: suggestion by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com> 129) Re: tragic death - Cash Reward by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com> 130) Re: 1993 Census by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 131) Re: lets' do it by fatima phall <fphall1@gl.umbc.edu> 132) Re: lets' do it by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com> 133) Re: by Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> 134) Re: lets' do it by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 135) Re: lets' do it by "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu> 136) Re: color trouble.. by "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com> 137) Re: lets' do it by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh) 138) Education Committee Progress report by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh) 139) Re: Subscription of New Member by "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu> 140) Stop Subscription by "Alieu Jobe" <Tokunor@worldnet.att.net> 141) Re: Subscription of New Member by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 142) Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 143) Re: Another act of terror by MJagana@aol.com 144) Re: Another act of terror by MJagana@aol.com 145) Re: suggestion by KTouray@aol.com 146) Re: Another act of terror by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 147) RE : COLOUR TROUBLE by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no 148) RE: Another act of terror by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no 149) Re: Subscription of New Member by "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu> 150) Color Debate by Laura Munzel <lem10@columbia.edu> 151) Setting up foundation. by Gunjur@aol.com 152) Lif insurance etc. by Gunjur@aol.com 153) Junius' words by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 154) Re: color trouble.. by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 155) Re: Junius' words by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 156) Re: Junius' words by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 157) Humor: Several for the weekend by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 158) Re: FYI by Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> 159) Re: lets' do it by globexinc@erols.com 160) Re: lets' do it by globexinc@erols.com 161) Re: Another act of terror by globexinc@erols.com 162) Re: suggestion by globexinc@erols.com 163) Re: Another act of terror by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 164) Re: Another act of terror by globexinc@erols.com 165) Re: Setting up foundation. by globexinc@erols.com 166) Re: Lif insurance etc. by globexinc@erols.com 167) Re subscription by "BOJANG,BUBA" <BBOJANG@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU> 168) Re: Junius' words by Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu> 169) Re: Junius' words by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 170) Re: Junius' words by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 171) Another brother is down..... by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 172) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> 173) "Operation Dirty Trick" by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> 174) It's the economy, Narr by "jgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 175) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 176) Re: Another brother is down..... by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com> 177) Re: lets' do it by "Amadou L. Fall" <jambaar@enter.net> 178) Re: Another brother is down..... by chakys@image.dk 179) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 180) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 181) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 182) Fwd: Subscription by MJagana@aol.com 183) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 184) Re:Number for Habib by KTouray@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 00:52:02 PST From: "Gassamaba omar" <kassama@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: new member Message-ID: <19971116085203.15268.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Dear list managers, Could anyone add Brother Alkali Bah to Gambia-L <alkali_bah@hotmail.com>. alabaraka WAS SALAAM gassama ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 04:19:32 PST From: "Jobst M�nderlein" <joppl@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report) Message-ID: <19971116121933.15489.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Hello everybody, I found this article in a big German newspaper. I translated it for everyone and I wonder if this news has spread around the world. What do you think of it? (Frankfurter Rundschau, Mittwoch den 12.11.1997, S. 2) Mobutus Gold in Gambia? Bonn (afp). Reporter des ZDF-MAgazins �Kennzeichen D� haben nach Angaben der Redaktion im westafrikanischen Gambia einen Teil des Goldschatzes des fr�heren zairischen Diktators Mobutu Sese Seko aufgesp�rt. Mindestens sechs Tonnen Gold in einem Gesamtwert von 90 Millionen US-Dollar l�gen in Gambia, erkl�rte die Redaktion am Dienstag. Den Angaben zufolge soll der Goldschatz, der insgesamt 100 Tonnen umfa�te, 1994 aus Zaire nach Gambia gebracht worden sein. Translation: Mobutus gold in The Gambia? Bonn (afp). Reporters of the German TV-magazin �Kennzeichen D� (public channel ZDF) have detected a part of the gold treasure of former dictator from Zaire Mobutu Sese Seko in westafrican Gambia according to the editorial office. At least six tons worth 90 Million US Dollar are in the Gambia the editors declared on Tuesday. According to their release the gold treasure, that is amounts to 100 tons, was brought to the Gambia in 1994 from Zaire. (Frankfurter Rundschau, Wednesday, 12.11.1997, p. 2) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 13:43:35 +0200 From: chakys@image.dk To: "GAMBIA-L. The Gambia and Related Issues Maling List"<gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: (Fwd) Maladmnistration Message-ID: <199711161243.NAA02987@mail.image.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Forwarded message: From: Self <Single-user mode> To: gambian-@u.washington.edu Subject: Maladmnistration Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:44:00 +0200 Hello to the L-ers, I hope the list doesn't mind a step backward to deal again with our leaders maladroit management. I got some statistics from UD & SE (DSB bladet) a danish national railway' periodical magazine p.66 which took the information in Jyllandsposten (a daily newspaper) and L'Thetavenement du jeudi (french newspaper). The article is about african dictatorship leaders money abroad. The standpoint is the african charity begins abroad. Of course who keeps longer his power , get richer: Felix Houphoudeltat Boigny got 4o billions danish crown (1 US dollar = 6 DKK) . The former nigerian dictator Ibrahim Babangida 34 billion DKK. Joseph -DesirTheta Mobutu 23 billions .The actual ivorian president follows Mobutu with 2 billions and Moshood Abiola 1,2 billion. M Haile Mariam about 1,2 billions and then Paul Biya from Cameroon with 500 millions. All this shows that by our leaders fault & lack of national feeling , we missed the welfare in Africa. Africa doesn't deserve to be seen as anger continent if our leaders stop being corrupted. We have ressources to to throw all those anathema. Nice week-end to everybody. Chakys. P:S May our sister soul rest in peace. Codolence to all the family. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000 From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Color again.. Message-ID: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Gambia-L. Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc. A short comment. My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails regarding my postings on color. However I still really believe that this emphasis on "white/black/color" is what we call in my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor). How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called "black"?! If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White" people, I believe I would get some angry mails back?!? Just look(capital letters are mine): >BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE???? >...What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a >time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a caddy >on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE >man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I >need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the >championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good >collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what the >dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years >masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I >think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but >hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports. >...So I thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE sports >and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of >them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK >sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a >fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the >idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football. >Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy >has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball >skills than being drafted into the NFL. > FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL... >The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why >some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey. >A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound >familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person >and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee >jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people >perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How >about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue? >Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm >sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there are >WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you ever >see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, if >WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know? >So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will. >Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have >my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on >the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last >physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get to the >economics one day), then its okay with me. >Cheers, >Torstein. Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like brainwashing.... For me it is simple. Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it only creates bad blood among humans. So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and "WHITE"???? My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more, regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a mesurement of people. As a person with a physical apperance that some people defines as "white" I will keep my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than "black color racism". Best Regards, Torstein The Gambia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 17:54:32 +0200 From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report) Message-ID: <19971116165443.AAA8550@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Hi Jobst, The Gambian government denied on Thursday any knowledge of hordes of gold reportedly stashed on the territory by former Zairean dictator Mobutu Sese Seko. A government statement said that "the government of the Gambia and in particular the central bank wish to make it abundantly clear that as far as it is concerned, that there is absolutely no evidence that such gold has been deposited in the country's banking system or anywhere else in the Gambia." It added: "The government of the Gambia and the central bank would be most obliged if anyone can render any information which could lead to any trace of any gold deposit allegedly belonging to deceased president Mobutu." On 16 Nov 97 at 4:19, Jobst M�nderlein wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I found this article in a big German newspaper. I translated it for > everyone and I wonder if this news has spread around the world. What > do you think of it? > > (Frankfurter Rundschau, Mittwoch den 12.11.1997, S. 2) > > Mobutus Gold in Gambia? > > Bonn (afp). Reporter des ZDF-MAgazins �Kennzeichen D� haben nach > Angaben der Redaktion im westafrikanischen Gambia einen Teil des > Goldschatzes des fr�heren zairischen Diktators Mobutu Sese Seko > aufgesp�rt. Mindestens sechs Tonnen Gold in einem Gesamtwert von 90 > Millionen US-Dollar l�gen in Gambia, erkl�rte die Redaktion am > Dienstag. Den Angaben zufolge soll der Goldschatz, der insgesamt 100 > Tonnen umfa�te, 1994 aus Zaire nach Gambia gebracht worden sein. > > Translation: > Mobutus gold in The Gambia? > > Bonn (afp). Reporters of the German TV-magazin �Kennzeichen D� > (public channel ZDF) have detected a part of the gold treasure of > former dictator from Zaire Mobutu Sese Seko in westafrican Gambia > according to the editorial office. At least six tons worth 90 > Million US Dollar are in the Gambia the editors declared on Tuesday. > According to their release the gold treasure, that is amounts to 100 > tons, was brought to the Gambia in 1994 from Zaire. (Frankfurter > Rundschau, Wednesday, 12.11.1997, p. 2) > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 18:07:38 +0200 From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: new member Message-ID: <19971116170749.AAA8670@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Greetings, Alikali Bah has been added to the list. Welcome to the Bantaba Alikali, we look forward to your contributions. You can send a brief introduction to gambia-l@u.washington.edu regards Momodou Camara On 16 Nov 97 at 0:52, Gassamaba omar wrote: > Dear list managers, > Could anyone add Brother Alkali Bah to Gambia-L > <alkali_bah@hotmail.com>. > alabaraka > > > WAS SALAAM > gassama > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 20:39:25 +0300 From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report) Message-ID: <01bcf2b6$950da3c0$f52385c2@kolls567> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-6" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jobst! Yes,the news has spread all over the place now.All my friends are are teasing me that maybe I should pack my bags and head for the Gambia,since its apparent that Mr. Jammeh has no intention of returning the stolen gold back to the Zairean people. Regards Bassss! -----Original Message----- From: Jobst M�nderlein <joppl@hotmail.com> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Date: 16/��/1418 09:18 � Subject: mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report) >Hello everybody, > >I found this article in a big German newspaper. I translated it for >everyone and I wonder if this news has spread around the world. What do >you think of it? > >(Frankfurter Rundschau, Mittwoch den 12.11.1997, S. 2) > >Mobutus Gold in Gambia? > >Bonn (afp). Reporter des ZDF-MAgazins �Kennzeichen D� haben nach Angaben >der Redaktion im westafrikanischen Gambia einen Teil des Goldschatzes >des fr�heren zairischen Diktators Mobutu Sese Seko aufgesp�rt. >Mindestens sechs Tonnen Gold in einem Gesamtwert von 90 Millionen >US-Dollar l�gen in Gambia, erkl�rte die Redaktion am Dienstag. Den >Angaben zufolge soll der Goldschatz, der insgesamt 100 Tonnen umfa�te, >1994 aus Zaire nach Gambia gebracht worden sein. > >Translation: >Mobutus gold in The Gambia? > >Bonn (afp). Reporters of the German TV-magazin �Kennzeichen D� (public >channel ZDF) have detected a part of the gold treasure of former >dictator from Zaire Mobutu Sese Seko in westafrican Gambia according to >the editorial office. At least six tons worth 90 Million US Dollar are >in the Gambia the editors declared on Tuesday. According to their >release the gold treasure, that is amounts to 100 tons, was brought to >the Gambia in 1994 from Zaire. >(Frankfurter Rundschau, Wednesday, 12.11.1997, p. 2) > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 13:58:39 -0500 (EST) From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Tragic death of a Gambian lady Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971116135443.17363A-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Malanding: Thanks for that timely response. I have been able to get in contact with the sister. It seems like we are ready to go public with our proposal. I have a couple more minor suggestions and I will send them to you before the deadline date. thanks musa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:30:55 -0500 From: Andy Lyons <alyons@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Fwd: Distance Learning Initiative in Ghana Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971116193055.3df77e58@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Since the topic of how developing countries such as The Gambia can best make use of technology to improve education and development, I thought some members of the list might be interested in the efforts being undertaken in Ghana. My apologies if this has been posted already. Andy >Welcome to ghaclad-scope listserv. > >Project SCOPE Incorporated, a Boston-based nonprofit developer of >telecenters worldwide to deliver >education and training, is pleased to announce ghaclad-scope, a listserv >created to discuss the issues and challenges related to the Ghana Distance >Education Project, an initiative begun in 1996, jointly sponsored by the >Voluntary Workcamps Association of Ghana (VOLU) and Operation Crossroads >Africa and driven by an informal volunteer advisory committee consisting of >members from Ghana, US, Europe, the global academic community and Ghanian >ISP's. > >The initiatives of the Ghana Distance Education Project are as follows: > >1) To explore means of utilizing computers, telecommunications, audio/visual >media and information technology to enhance primary, secondary, tertiary, >vocational, professional development and continuing adult education >in Ghana; >2) To strengthen the capacity of grassroots organizations, low-income >communities and local schools to initiate, choose, plan and manage their own >self-help projects through information technology and telecommunications; >3) To create a demonstration effect on public opinion in terms of what >information technology, electronic networking and community-based computing >can offer for national and international development; >4) To increase awareness of how the computer and electronic connectivity can >re-orient youth groups toward the economy and labor market of the 21st >century; and >5) To foster opportunities for youth from the US and Europe to engage in >"service learning" providing computer literacy instruction to Ghanian >participants and technical assistance to the Project as they learn about >Ghanian culture and society. > >The primary focus of the listserv's activity will consist of news and >discussion relating directly to the Ghana Distance Education Project and its >technical and administrative needs. Anyone can join; however, we ask only >that you introduce yourself to the list members when you subscribe. > >Project SCOPE will archive material ultimately at >http://www.projectscope.org and develop a database of resources generated as >a result of the ghaclad-scope discussions. Thank you for joining us, and we >welcome your participation and your involving others in the listserv who >would benefit from and contribute to the >discussion process. > >Carolyn Manjourides, President >Project SCOPE Incorporated >25 Huntington Avenue, Suite 331, Boston, MA 02116 USA >(617)424-1121 Tel/Days (617)262-1929 Tel/Eves (617)437-9329 FAX >cmanjourides@projectscope.org E-mail >http://www.projectscope.org Website > To subscribe to ghaclad-scope, send an email to: Majordomo@igc.org with the following command in the body of your email message: subscribe ghaclad-scope =============================================================== Andy Lyons The Gambia Resource Page alyons@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu http://grove.ufl.edu/~alyons =============================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:03:29 -0500 (EST) From: KTouray@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: orbituary Message-ID: <971116160328_902589508@mrin79> Another one us has fallen in the person of Alieu Badara Jallow. I am told he is a native of Serrekunda who lived in Kansas. He was undergoing surgery for a heart ailment when he he suffered a fatal stroke. He lived with his younger brother who now has the formidible task of transporting the body back to the Gambia. All those who wish to send condolences and assitance can do so at the following address: Momodou Seray Jallow(brother of the deceased) 5606 Floyd Apt 1A Overland Park Kansas 66206 May his soul rest in peace ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 15:09:47 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Color again.. Message-ID: <19971116230947.28313.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Tostitos, Just to let you know, I feel a bit reluctant in dignifying you with a reply. You really seem to be a White dude with an attitude eh!!! I was asked a question to which I replied. Got a problem with that???? I am in no mood for a fight...still mourning over the recent deaths of two Gambians. So if you are spoiling for a fight - which I suspect is your motive - please say so, the arena is all yours. Enjoy the fight. And please let me know when you are done. I wish you success in the fight. Jainaba. BTW, my last name is Diallo NOT Jiallos!!!!!!!! > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 17:59:28 PST From: "fafanding fatajo" <ffatajo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Brief introduction Message-ID: <19971117015928.11357.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Dear Camara and core, My name is Fafanding s Fatajo ( F.S.Fatajo) from Sallikenni Village Cntral Baddibou North Bank Division. I am currently studying in Malaysia. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 18:01:50 PST From: "fafanding fatajo" <ffatajo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Brief introduction Message-ID: <19971117020150.4021.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Dear Camara and core, My name is Fafanding s Fatajo ( F.S.Fatajo) from Sallikenni Village Cntral Baddibou North Bank Division. I am currently studying in Malaysia. Thank you very much for including me in the Gambia List. Best of luck. Fafanding. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:03:23 -0500 (EST) From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: orbituary Message-ID: <199711170203.VAA03079@oak.mtu.edu> Content-Type: text > > Another one us has fallen in the person of Alieu Badara Jallow. I am told he > is a native of Serrekunda who lived in Kansas. He was undergoing surgery for > a heart ailment when he he suffered a fatal stroke. He lived with his > younger brother who now has the formidible task of transporting the body back > to the Gambia. All those who wish to send condolences and assitance can do so > at the following address: > > Momodou Seray Jallow(brother of the deceased) > > 5606 Floyd Apt 1A > Overland Park > Kansas 66206 > > May his soul rest in peace > > May his Soul rest in peace. Malanding jaiteh ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:15:26 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: orbituary Message-ID: <9711170215.AA37980@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mr. Touray, you wrote: > Another one us has fallen in the person of Alieu Badara Jallow. I am told he > is a native of Serrekunda who lived in Kansas. He was undergoing surgery for > a heart ailment when he he suffered a fatal stroke. He lived with his > younger brother who now has the formidible task of transporting the body back > to the Gambia. All those who wish to send condolences and assitance can do so > at the following address: > > Momodou Seray Jallow(brother of the deceased) > > 5606 Floyd Apt 1A > Overland Park > Kansas 66206 > > May his soul rest in peace Thank you very much for informing the list and I hope that all of us will assist in whatever way we can. May his soul rest in peace... Amen Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:27:44 -0500 (EST) From: BAKSAWA@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Inquiry About Membership To The List Message-ID: <971116212743_902618822@mrin42.mail.aol.com> List Managers: Several weeks ago, I requested membership on behalf of my brother Adama Sey, to the List. I do not remember reading a posting confirming his membership. If he has not been added, I would appreciate your considering him as a member. His e-maile address is: as2eng@bolton.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 07:03:05 +0300 From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <Gambia-L@U.Washington.Edu> Subject: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? Message-ID: <01bcf30d$d4a77540$852185c2@q-tel.qatar.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BCF326.F9F4AD40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BCF326.F9F4AD40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Torstein! I think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve = your right not only to feel offended but to fight back whenever we get = carried away with our this black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables = on us(your changing of the words Black for White in the article below) = you have reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on either inflicting or = feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stance all the way.So,defend = your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these black people make you = feel guilty of offences committed by other whites. And keep up the good work down there! Regards Bassss! Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa = (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 = -0300) id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with = SMTP id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800 Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu = [140.142.32.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with = ESMTP id FAA36978 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 = 05:17:23 -0800 Received: from mail1.sn.no (0@mail1.sn.no [194.143.8.8]) by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with = ESMTP id FAA09534 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 = 05:17:21 -0800 Received: from mail2.sn.no (0@mail2.sn.no [194.143.8.114]) by = mail1.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5) with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov = 1997 14:17:17 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by = mail2.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5) with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov = 1997 14:17:16 +0100 (MET) Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000 Message-Id: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000 Reply-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" = <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Color again.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Gambia-L. Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc. A short comment. My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails regarding my postings on color. However I still really believe that this emphasis on "white/black/color" = is what we call in my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor). How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called "black"?! If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White" = people, I believe I would get some angry mails back?!? Just look(capital letters are mine): =20 >BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE???? >...What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a=20 >time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a caddy = >on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE=20 >man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I=20 >need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the = >championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good=20 >collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what = the=20 >dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years=20 >masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I=20 >think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but=20 >hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports. >...So I thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE = sports=20 >and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of=20 >them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK=20 >sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a=20 >fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the=20 >idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football. =20 >Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy=20 >has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball = >skills than being drafted into the NFL.=20 > FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL... >The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why >some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey. >A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound >familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person >and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee >jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people >perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How=20 >about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue?=20 >Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm=20 >sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there = are=20 >WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you ever = >see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, if = >WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know? >So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never = will.=20 >Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have >my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on >the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last >physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get = to the=20 >economics one day), then its okay with me. >Cheers, >Torstein. Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like = brainwashing.... For me it is simple. Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it = only creates bad blood among humans. So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and = "WHITE"???? My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more,=20 regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a = mesurement of people. As a person with a physical apperance that some people defines as = "white" I will keep my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than "black = color racism". Best Regards, Torstein The Gambia=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BCF326.F9F4AD40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Torstein!</FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>��&nbs= p; I=20 think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve your right not = only to=20 feel offended but to fight back whenever we get carried away with our = this=20 black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables on us(your changing of the = words=20 Black for White in the article below) you have reminded us that nobody = has a=20 monopoly on either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with = your=20 stance all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of = these=20 black people make you feel guilty of offences committed by other=20 whites.</FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>And keep up the good work down=20 there!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>��&nbs= p;��= ;��= ��&= nbsp;��=20 Regards Bassss!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Return-Path: <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu">GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washingt= on.edu</A>><BR>Received:=20 from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa=20 (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail� It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 = 16:13:03=20 -0300)<BR> id QAA13582; 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Sun,=20 16 Nov 1997 14:17:17 +0100 (MET)<BR>Received: from mail2.sn.no=20 (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by mail2.sn.no = (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)<BR>=20 with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>&g= t;; Sun,=20 16 Nov 1997 14:17:16 +0100 (MET)<BR>Received: from west.EARTH = (149.212.100.111)=20 by south.commit.gm<BR> (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:B0000016604@south.commit.gm">B0000016604@south.commit.gm</= A>>;<BR>=20 Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000<BR>Message-Id: <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:B0000016604@south.commit.gm">B0000016604@south.commit.gm</= A>><BR>Date:=20 Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000<BR>Reply-To: <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>&g= t;<BR>Sender:=20 <A=20 href=3D"mailto:GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu">GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washingt= on.edu</A><BR>Precedence:=20 bulk<BR>From: "<A = href=3D"mailto:tgr@commit.gm">tgr@commit.gm</A>"=20 <<A = href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@commit.gm">gambia-l@commit.gm</A>><BR>To:=20 "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>&g= t;<BR>Subject:=20 Color again..<BR>MIME-Version: 1.0<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: = 7bit<BR>X-To:=20 "gambia-l" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>&g= t;<BR>X-MSMail-Priority:=20 Normal<BR>X-Priority: 3<BR>X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta --=20 ListProcessor(tm) by CREN<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;=20 charset=3DISO-8859-1</FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" = <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:tgr@commit.gm">tgr@commit.gm</A>><BR> via=20 Commit</FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><BR>Gambia-L.<BR>Regarding = "tiger=20 woods" posting etc.<BR>A short comment.<BR>My regards to = Mr.Bassirou and=20 the others for well written mails<BR>regarding my postings on = color.<BR>However=20 I still really believe that this emphasis on = "white/black/color" is=20 what we call in<BR>my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears=20 favor).<BR>How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people = are=20 called "black"?!<BR>If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos = wrote but in=20 "favor" of "White" people,<BR>I believe I would get = some=20 angry mails back?!?</FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Just look(capital letters are=20 mine):<BR>�� <BR>>BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK=20 AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????</FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>>...What I liked was the fact = that despite=20 the fact that once upon a <BR>>time in the good old US of A, seeing a = WHITE=20 person who was not a caddy <BR>>on� a golf course was like = seeing a=20 normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE <BR>>man is really kicking ass on = national tv...=20 on a golf course. Hey, I <BR>>need another budweiser to celebrate = Mannn!!!=20 Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the <BR>>championship (the Augusta masters) = and was=20 told to prepare some good <BR>>collard greens, chicken etc..(soul = food..yeah,=20 I think that was what the <BR>>dude was refering to) when he takes = the=20 participants of next years <BR>>masters out. BTW, have you folks seen = Soul=20 Food (the movie) yet??? I <BR>>think it is the best WHITE movie� = ever=20 produced...bold statement, but <BR>>hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! = O.K, Okay=20 back to sports.</FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>>...So I thought and I thought = and I=20 thought.� Why are there WHITE sports <BR>>and BLACK = sports?� What=20 are the WHITE sports?� Basketball is one of <BR>>them.� = It's=20 dominated by WHITES.� That's a fact.� What are the BLACK=20 <BR>>sports?� Hockey is one of them.� It's dominated by=20 BLACKS.� That's a <BR>>fact.� There are several in-between = sports,=20 such that reflect the <BR>>idealistic "melting pot" theory = of=20 America. You know, like Football.� <BR>>Yeah, football, were a = WHITE=20 quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy <BR>>has a greater chance of = being=20 drafted into the NBA if he has basketball <BR>>skills than being = drafted into=20 the NFL. </FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 = size=3D2>>��=20 FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL...<BR>>The historical basis for many of = these=20 sports will explain why<BR>>some are dominated by one ethnic = group.�=20 Take for instance hockey.<BR>>A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE = puck, with=20 sticks. Sound<BR>>familiar?� How about bungee jumping?� Tie = a rope=20 around a person<BR>>and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a = WHITE=20 person bungee<BR>>jump (mindful of his history) and not be = nervous?�=20 Man, these people<BR>>perfected that "sport" on us, now you = expect=20 us to bungee jump? How <BR>>about horseback riding? Let's not even go = there.=20 Shall we continue? <BR>>Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la = the=20 America's cup).� I'm <BR>>sure you see where this is going. = Sailing,=20 sailing, that's why there are <BR>>WHITE people here in north america = in the=20 first place.� And do you ever <BR>>see a WHITE man in the = American swim=20 team (at the olympics)?� Shoot, if <BR>>WE could swim WE = wouldn't be=20 here no how.� You know?</FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>>So go ahead Mr. Tiger = Woods.� I don't=20 know you, and probably never will. <BR>>Don't know what you stand = for,=20 probably don't care. I have<BR>>my own troubles to deal with.� = But every=20 now and then, when I turn on<BR>>the TV and see a WHITE man kicking = ass on a=20 golf course--the last<BR>>physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) = supremacist=20 mentality (we'll get to the <BR>>economics one day), then its okay = with=20 me.<BR>>Cheers,<BR>>Torstein.</FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 = size=3D2>Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's=20 almost like brainwashing....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>For me it is simple.<BR>Everybody = says that=20 europeans started the color separation and that it only creates<BR>bad = blood=20 among humans.<BR>So why are everybody pounding on that everything is=20 "BLACK" and "WHITE"????<BR>My belief is that to = continue on=20 this track will only divide more, <BR>regardless if it is a=20 African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a mesurement of=20 people.</FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>As a person with a physical = apperance that some=20 people defines as "white" I will keep<BR>my right to be just = as=20 offended by "white color harrasment" than "black color=20 racism".</FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Best Regards,<BR>Torstein<BR>The = Gambia=20 </FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 = size=3D2><BR></FONT>�</DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BCF326.F9F4AD40-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 22:36:06 -0600 From: Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate Message-ID: <s46f7588.058@wpo.it.luc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Hi folks, I have been wondering what purpose the Gambian consulate serves. It is my understanding that when contacted, the consulate indicated that funds are not available to help in sending the corpse home. Can you imagine that? What use is a consulate that cannot provide help to its citizens at a time like this? This is the million-dollar question. Ndey Kumba >>> <BAKSAWA@aol.com> 11/15/97 05:30pm >>> Dear List Members: The above named Gambian is currently in a comma, and hooked on a life support system in Overlandpark, Kansas. The doctors have pronounced him "brain-dead", and the life support system is expected to be disconnected on Monday, November 17, 1997. The family's wish is to transport the corpse to The Gambia. Donations of any kind are critically needed at this time. You may contact: Momodou Sireh Jallow (Alieu's younger brother) and Rose Oshaia at ADDRESS: 5606 Floyd, #1A Overlandpark, Kansas 66202 TELEPHONE: (913) 262-4778 Alieu is the son of Ndey Jeng and Ousainou Jallow - originally from Basse, Upper River Division, but currently living in the Serrekunda area. Thanks in advance for your help. Awa Sey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 02:26:16 -0000 From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Color again.. Message-ID: <B0000016852@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Gambia-L. My apologies for wrongly spelling the name Jainaba Diallo. Torstein The Gambia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 22:53:20 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate Message-ID: <19971117065320.12522.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Ndey Kumba, Eventhough this is an emotional issue, I think the million-dollar question should be: Do you expect the Gambian consulate to provide all the needs of all Gambians in that locality??? We already have an "organization" in gambia-l that I presume, can come together in such times and raise funds. Remember that the consulate gets its funds from a government that has very little to offer. If they said that they don't have the necessary funds, what else do you expect?? They should print more money, like Idi Amin Dada??? Folks, I think talking is cheap!!! It is time for us all to put up or shut up (excuse my style...no offence intended)...we shouldn't expect the government to do everything for us. Lets help the families in need. Have a great week! Jainaba. ******************************************************************* >Hi folks, > >I have been wondering what purpose the Gambian consulate serves. It >is my understanding that when contacted, the consulate indicated that >funds are not available to help in sending the corpse home. Can you >imagine that? What use is a consulate that cannot provide help to its >citizens at a time like this? This is the million-dollar question. > > > >Ndey Kumba ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 23:01:52 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Color again.. Message-ID: <19971117070152.27751.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Gambia-l, My apologies for wrongly spelling the name Torstein...I spelt it as Tostitos in my previous posting on this thread (see header). Jainaba Ousmane Diallo Beautiful Vancouver. ****************************************************************** >Gambia-L. > >My apologies for wrongly spelling >the name Jainaba Diallo. > >Torstein >The Gambia ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 23:46:17 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Fwd: Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal Message-ID: <19971117074617.3737.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Folks, Here we go again.... When will this insanity STOP???????? America oh America, the only remaining superpower, world's most industralised nation and democracy, and a real GANGTERS PARADISE. I Hail thee!!! Very very moving... Later.... Jainaba. ****************************************************************** November 17, 1997 Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal By MICHAEL COOPER [I] n his last phone call home to his mother in Senegal, Elhadji Gaye promised to return for a visit soon. It had been 11 years since he left his family behind to seek his fortune in New York, and he had not been back once. "His mother was becoming very impatient," Gaye's nephew, Omar Gaye, said yesterday in a telephone interview from Senegal. "She told him the last time that they spoke that life is not eternal and that 10 years without seeing him is a long, long time." Now the homecoming will be a somber one. Gaye, who made a living as a livery-cab driver, died at 33 on Friday after he was shot to death by two young women who tried to rob him after he picked them up in his taxi, the police said. The women belonged to the Bloods gang, the police said. "I am in a state of shock," his mother, Diama Ngallame, 75, said through a translator. "It is still very difficult to believe it. Is this a dream? I cannot believe it still. Can life really be this cruel?" She wept. In the courtyard of her home, in a village near Kaolack in the center of Senegal, relatives gathered to grieve. They are waiting for Elhadji Gaye's body to be flown back for the funeral. They spoke about plans for Muslim memorials on the eighth day and the 40th day after his death. "Times are very difficult here," said his nephew Omar Gaye, a university student studying physics and chemistry. "He was the pillar of our family. The source of our very subsistence. He was paying my studies and contributing to the family's monthly budget. You can probably imagine that this was a very hard loss for us all." Elhadji Gaye was one of nine children. His father died 20 years ago. He immigrated to New York 11 years ago to find work and lived in a three-bedroom apartment on Edgecombe Avenue in Harlem with four other immigrants from West Africa. Since 1993 he has been a driver for New Ways car service, driving from 7 P.M. to 7 A.M. After paying for gas, friends said, he made about $40 a night. "He would call most every Sunday," Omar Gaye said. "He would mostly talk about family problems. He said fairly little about life in New York -- 'I'm getting along fine, don't worry about me.' He used to tell me to keep working, to be honest, don't let anyone lead you astray. He would give us advice like that." In recent months, friends in New York said, Gaye had taken to carrying a photograph of a slender woman wearing a white blouse, her braided hair draped with beads. He told people she was his fiancee, a woman from Senegal whom he had courted by phone and proposed to three months ago. Family members in Senegal said that he had yet to tell them about the woman when he died. Copyright 1997 The New York Times Company ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 00:27:35 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Fwd: Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal Message-ID: <19971117082736.19120.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Folks, Here we go again..... When will this insanity STOP?????? America Oh America, the only remaining superpower, the world's most industralised nation and democracy and a real GANGSTER'S PARADISE. I hail Thee....... Very sad indeed. Later... Jainaba. PS: thought I sent this mail earlier, if so, sorry for the duplication. ***************************************************************** >> November 17, 1997 >> >> Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal >> >> By MICHAEL COOPER >> >> [I] n his last phone call home to his mother in >> Senegal, Elhadji Gaye promised to return for a >> visit soon. It had been 11 years since he left his >> family behind to seek his fortune in New York, and >> he had not been back once. >> >> "His mother was becoming very impatient," Gaye's >> nephew, Omar Gaye, said yesterday in a telephone >> interview from Senegal. "She told him the last >> time that they spoke that life is not eternal and >> that 10 years without seeing him is a long, long >> time." >> >> Now the homecoming will be a somber one. Gaye, who >> made a living as a livery-cab driver, died at 33 >> on Friday after he was shot to death by two young >> women who tried to rob him after he picked them up >> in his taxi, the police said. The women belonged >> to the Bloods gang, the police said. >> >> "I am in a state of shock," his mother, Diama >> Ngallame, 75, said through a translator. "It is >> still very difficult to believe it. Is this a >> dream? I cannot believe it still. Can life really >> be this cruel?" >> >> She wept. In the courtyard of her home, in a >> village near Kaolack in the center of Senegal, >> relatives gathered to grieve. They are waiting for >> Elhadji Gaye's body to be flown back for the >> funeral. They spoke about plans for Muslim >> memorials on the eighth day and the 40th day after >> his death. >> >> "Times are very difficult here," said his nephew >> Omar Gaye, a university student studying physics >> and chemistry. "He was the pillar of our family. >> The source of our very subsistence. He was paying >> my studies and contributing to the family's >> monthly budget. >> >> You can probably imagine that this was a very hard >> loss for us all." >> >> Elhadji Gaye was one of nine children. His father >> died 20 years ago. He immigrated to New York 11 >> years ago to find work and lived in a >> three-bedroom apartment on Edgecombe Avenue in >> Harlem with four other immigrants from West >> Africa. Since 1993 he has been a driver for New >> Ways car service, driving from 7 P.M. to 7 A.M. >> After paying for gas, friends said, he made about >> $40 a night. >> >> "He would call most every Sunday," Omar Gaye said. >> "He would mostly talk about family problems. He >> said fairly little about life in New York -- 'I'm >> getting along fine, don't worry about me.' He used >> to tell me to keep working, to be honest, don't >> let anyone lead you astray. He would give us >> advice like that." >> >> In recent months, friends in New York said, Gaye >> had taken to carrying a photograph of a slender >> woman wearing a white blouse, her braided hair >> draped with beads. He told people she was his >> fiancee, a woman from Senegal whom he had courted >> by phone and proposed to three months ago. Family >> members in Senegal said that he had yet to tell >> them about the woman when he died. >> >> Copyright 1997 The New York Times Company ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 01:59:20 PST From: "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New members Message-ID: <19971117095920.27130.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Dear List manager, The following people want to be included in The gambia List. They are Bukhari Sillah << bsillah@hotmail.com >> Arona John << aronajohn@hotmail.com >> Your usual co-operation once agin is highly solicited. Sillah Conateh. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 07:02:59 -0500 From: M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? Message-ID: <34703273.F5BF76C2@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8AAAA2E324267BE6CD57EC74" --------------8AAAA2E324267BE6CD57EC74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good day Mr. Torstein, Mr. Drammeh, and all Gambia-Lers, Now I think this "Question f Colour" is getting to the point of the ridiculous. I really need to ask, why should the expression of pride in one's people be source of irritation for someone else???? And then, why should I allow someone else to define for me, with whom I collectively identify? If Mr. Torstein has a problem with expressions of Black pride or the expression of a positive Black identity, then I suggest that is his problem, and that he has some issues, that he has to resolve. Why Mr. Drammeh would give support for this type of brooding is beyond me. Would either of you also condemn women who express pride in their sisters across the world who have accomplished something of merit and gotten local, national, or international publicity for it? Or would you condemn Gambians across the world, when a fellow Gambian achieved something great and other Gambians expressed pride in this achievement? After all, to categorize on ANY LEVEL is to be exclusionary to some group in the world. The Olympics is a vehicle for the type of pride expressed on a national level. Are the Olympics, or the type of pride which the Olympics foster wrong? Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always felt threatened when Black people express pride in themselves. And, even though Mr. Torstein likes to draw a distinction between himself and other White people, in this respect, he shows himself to be No Different. For Black people to express this type of pride is not demeaning to others, as both of you would suggest, but rather, is the result of numerous historical processes. If I express a love for my wife, does it demean other women??? I hope not!!! The Torstein argument is the same argument that I have heard time without number, coming from White people of various backgrounds (most NOT well intentioned) and a number of "liberal" Black folks, as to why there should be, for instance, Black Studies or Black History? The answer to that question is, all things being equal, that there should not be such programs. However, as we all know, All Things Are Not Equal! These programs, as well as the expression of Black pride are the historic result of the exclusion of the voices of Black people and their experiences in the larger arena. Now, when Black people get a voice, you try to silence that voice, on the alleged basis of being offensive to some people? Here we fall into the same cycle of silencing those who have traditionally had no voice!!! Although, I would affirm Mr. Torstein's right to express his unhappiness at these events, I understand that unhappiness, am unsympathetic toward the reason for that malaise, and even feel that I have the right and the obligation to express my outrage at this display of paternalism (for that is how I see it!) I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in the past, (even though I feel that a number of his comments were tainted with racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a brief comment at this point. I do hope that everyone has a good day. M W Payne Bassirou Dodou Drammeh wrote: > Torstein! I think you are absolutely correct and entitled > to reserve your right not only to feel offended but to fight back > whenever we get carried away with our this black-and-proud songs.By > turning the tables on us(your changing of the words Black for White in > the article below) you have reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on > either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stance > all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these > black people make you feel guilty of offences committed by other > whites. And keep up the good work down > there! Regards > Bassss! Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> > Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa > (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 > -0300) > id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) > with SMTP > id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800 > Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu > [140.142.32.7]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with > ESMTP > id FAA36978 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 > 05:17:23 -0800 > Received: from mail1.sn.no (0@mail1.sn.no [194.143.8.8]) > by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with > ESMTP > id FAA09534 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 > 05:17:21 -0800 > Received: from mail2.sn.no (0@mail2.sn.no [194.143.8.114]) by > mail1.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5) > with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov > 1997 14:17:17 +0100 (MET) > Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by > mail2.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5) > with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov > 1997 14:17:16 +0100 (MET) > Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm > (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>; > Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000 > Message-Id: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm> > Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000 > Reply-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: Color again.. > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Priority: 3 > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" > <tgr@commit.gm> > via Commit > > Gambia-L. > Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc. > A short comment. > My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails > regarding my postings on color. > However I still really believe that this emphasis on > "white/black/color" is what we call in > my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor). > How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called > "black"?! > If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White" > people, > I believe I would get some angry mails back?!?Just look(capital > letters are mine): > > >BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????>...What I > liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a > >time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a > caddy > >on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE > >man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I > >need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won > the > >championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good > >collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what > the > >dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years > >masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I > >think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but > > >hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports.>...So I > thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE sports > >and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of > >them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK > >sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a > >fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the > >idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football. > >Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy > > >has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has > basketball > >skills than being drafted into the NFL. > FOLKS HERE's THE > REAL DEAL... > >The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why > >some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey. > >A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound > >familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person > >and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee > >jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people > >perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How > >about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue? > >Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm > > >sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there > are > >WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you > ever > >see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, > if > >WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know?>So go ahead Mr. > Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will. > >Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have > >my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on > > >the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last > >physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get > to the > >economics one day), then its okay with me. > >Cheers, > >Torstein.Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like > brainwashing....For me it is simple. > Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it > only creates > bad blood among humans. > So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and > "WHITE"???? > My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more, > regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a > mesurement of people.As a person with a physical apperance that some > people defines as "white" I will keep > my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than > "black color racism".Best Regards, > Torstein > The Gambia > > --------------8AAAA2E324267BE6CD57EC74 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> <BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF"> Good day Mr. Torstein, Mr. Drammeh, and all Gambia-Lers, <P>Now I think this "Question f Colour" is getting to the point of the ridiculous.� I really need to ask, why should the expression of pride in one's people be source of irritation for someone else????� And then, why should I allow someone else to define for me, with whom I collectively identify?� If Mr. Torstein has a problem with expressions of Black pride or the expression of a positive Black identity, then I suggest that is his problem, and that he has some issues, that he has to resolve.� Why Mr. Drammeh would give support for this type of brooding is beyond me.� Would either of you also condemn women who express pride in their sisters across the world who have accomplished something of merit and gotten local, national, or international publicity for it?� Or would you condemn Gambians across the world, when a fellow Gambian achieved something great and other Gambians expressed pride in this achievement?� After all, to categorize on ANY LEVEL is to be exclusionary to some group in the world.� The Olympics is a vehicle for the type of pride expressed on a national level.� Are the Olympics, or the type of pride which the Olympics foster wrong? <P>Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always felt threatened when Black people express pride in themselves.� And, even though Mr. Torstein likes to draw a distinction between himself and other White people,� in this respect, he shows himself to be No Different.� For Black people to express this type of pride is not demeaning to others, as both of you would suggest, but rather, is the result of numerous historical processes.� If I express a love for my wife, does it demean other women???� I hope not!!! The Torstein argument is the same argument that I have heard time without number, coming from White people of various backgrounds (most NOT well intentioned) and a number of "liberal" Black folks, as to why there should be, for instance, Black Studies or Black History?� The answer to that question is, all things being equal, that there should not be such programs.� However, as we all know, All Things Are Not Equal!� These programs, as well as the expression of Black pride are the historic result of the exclusion of the voices of Black people and their experiences in the larger arena.� Now, when Black people get a voice, you try to silence that voice, on the alleged basis of being offensive to some people?� Here we fall into the same cycle of silencing those who have traditionally had no voice!!!� Although, I would affirm Mr. Torstein's right to express his unhappiness at these events, I understand that unhappiness, am unsympathetic toward the reason for that malaise, and even feel that I have the right and the obligation to express my outrage at this display of paternalism (for that is how I see it!) <P>I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in the past, (even though I feel that a number of his comments were tainted with racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a brief comment at this point. <P>I do hope that everyone has a good day. <P>M W Payne <P>Bassirou Dodou Drammeh wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>�<FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Torstein!</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>�� I think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve your right not only to feel offended but to fight back whenever we get carried away with our this black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables on us(your changing of the words Black for White in the article below) you have reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stance all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these black people make you feel guilty of offences committed by other whites.</FONT></FONT>�<FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>And keep up the good work down there!</FONT></FONT>�<FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>�� Regards Bassss!</FONT></FONT>�<FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Return-Path: <<A HREF="mailto:GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu">GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu</A>></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail� It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300)</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>�� by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>�� id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.7])</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>�� by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>�� id FAA36978 for <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu">gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu</A>>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:23 -0800</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from mail1.sn.no (<A HREF="mailto:0@mail1.sn.no">0@mail1.sn.no</A> [194.143.8.8])</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>�� by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>�� id FAA09534 for <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:21 -0800</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from mail2.sn.no (<A HREF="mailto:0@mail2.sn.no">0@mail2.sn.no</A> [194.143.8.114]) by mail1.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:17:17 +0100 (MET)</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by mail2.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:17:16 +0100 (MET)</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <<A HREF="mailto:B0000016604@south.commit.gm">B0000016604@south.commit.gm</A>>;</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Message-Id: <<A HREF="mailto:B0000016604@south.commit.gm">B0000016604@south.commit.gm</A>></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Reply-To: <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Sender: <A HREF="mailto:GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu">GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu</A></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Precedence: bulk</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>From: "<A HREF="mailto:tgr@commit.gm">tgr@commit.gm</A>" <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@commit.gm">gambia-l@commit.gm</A>></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Subject: Color again..</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>MIME-Version: 1.0</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>X-To: "gambia-l" <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>X-Priority: 3</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <<A HREF="mailto:tgr@commit.gm">tgr@commit.gm</A>></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>via Commit</FONT></FONT> <P><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Gambia-L.</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc.</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>A short comment.</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>regarding my postings on color.</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>However I still really believe that this emphasis on "white/black/color" is what we call in</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor).</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called "black"?!</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White" people,</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>I believe I would get some angry mails back?!?</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Just look(capital letters are mine):</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>�</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>...What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a caddy</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>on� a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what the</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>think it is the best WHITE movie� ever produced...bold statement, but</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports.</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>...So I thought and I thought and I thought.� Why are there WHITE sports</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>and BLACK sports?� What are the WHITE sports?� Basketball is one of</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>them.� It's dominated by WHITES.� That's a fact.� What are the BLACK</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>sports?� Hockey is one of them.� It's dominated by BLACKS.� That's a</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>fact.� There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football.</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>skills than being drafted into the NFL.�</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>�� FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL...</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>some are dominated by one ethnic group.� Take for instance hockey.</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>familiar?� How about bungee jumping?� Tie a rope around a person</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous?� Man, these people</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue?</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup).� I'm</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there are</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>WHITE people here in north america in the first place.� And do you ever</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)?� Shoot, if</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how.� You know?</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods.� I don't know you, and probably never will.</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>my own troubles to deal with.� But every now and then, when I turn on</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get to the</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>economics one day), then its okay with me.</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>Cheers,</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>Torstein.</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like brainwashing....</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>For me it is simple.</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it only creates</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>bad blood among humans.</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and "WHITE"????</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more,</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a mesurement of people.</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>As a person with a physical apperance that some people defines as "white" I will keep</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than "black color racism".</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Best Regards,</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Torstein</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>The Gambia�</FONT></FONT> <P>�</BLOCKQUOTE> � </BODY> </HTML> --------------8AAAA2E324267BE6CD57EC74-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:43:16 +0100 From: Sompo.Sinyan@udac.se (Sompo Sinyan) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Ditah( KESEMBEBAA) Message-ID: <v01530500b096074c5d2c@[193.44.78.221]> Well Ditah, This brougth a grate joy to recieve the introduction mail from you. Well boy ,it has been a long time since we've heard from one another, and I appologize ,it's really my fault actually . Anyway i do also have access to internet in our company ,I also install the system for other companies. I hope your child is feeling in good health. Boy I hope we can leave the past behind and look forward instead and no hard feelings.We are friends remember. All for now. Yours Sompo Sinyan H�lsningar Sompo Sinyan __________________________________________________________________________ Faktureringsadress: Bes�ksadress: UDAC Installation UDAC Box 174 L�gerhyddsv�gen 3 (Polacksbacken) 75104 Uppsala Uppsala Telefon: 018-187934 Mobil : 0708-665534 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 08:03:31 -0500 (EST) From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: orbituary Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971117080115.8558A-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Malanding or anyone else: Is there a phone number where Momodou jallow can be reached? Musa On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Malanding S. Jaiteh wrote: > > > > Another one us has fallen in the person of Alieu Badara Jallow. I am told he > > is a native of Serrekunda who lived in Kansas. He was undergoing surgery for > > a heart ailment when he he suffered a fatal stroke. He lived with his > > younger brother who now has the formidible task of transporting the body back > > to the Gambia. All those who wish to send condolences and assitance can do so > > at the following address: > > > > Momodou Seray Jallow(brother of the deceased) > > > > 5606 Floyd Apt 1A > > Overland Park > > Kansas 66206 > > > > May his soul rest in peace > > > > > May his Soul rest in peace. > > Malanding jaiteh > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 08:15:50 -0500 (EST) From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: orbituary Message-ID: <199711171315.IAA03133@oak.mtu.edu> Content-Type: text > > > Malanding or anyone else: Is there a phone number where Momodou jallow > can be reached? Musa > > > > > On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Malanding S. Jaiteh wrote: > > > > > > > Another one us has fallen in the person of Alieu Badara Jallow. I am told he > > > is a native of Serrekunda who lived in Kansas. He was undergoing surgery for > > > a heart ailment when he he suffered a fatal stroke. He lived with his > > > younger brother who now has the formidible task of transporting the body back > > > to the Gambia. All those who wish to send condolences and assitance can do so > > > at the following address: > > > > > > Momodou Seray Jallow(brother of the deceased) > > > > > > 5606 Floyd Apt 1A > > > Overland Park > > > Kansas 66206 > > > > > > May his soul rest in peace > > > > > > > > May his Soul rest in peace. > > > > Malanding jaiteh > > > K Touray is the author. Touray please help Musa and others with a phone no. Malanding Jaiteh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:59:15 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: orbituary Message-ID: <9711171459.AA34856@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Musa, you wrote: > Malanding or anyone else: Is there a phone number where Momodou jallow > can be reached? Musa > Here is the contact phone number : (913) 262-4778 Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 18:54:12 +0300 From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? Message-ID: <01bcf371$3b4a2460$9c2385c2@kolls567> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BCF38A.60975C60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BCF38A.60975C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mr.Payne! Your insight is well taken.Thanks and keep up the good = work down there! = Regards Bassss! =20 I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in = the past, (even though I feel that a number of his comments were tainted = with racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a brief comment at = this point.=20 =20 I do hope that everyone has a good day.=20 =20 M W Payne=20 =20 Bassirou Dodou Drammeh wrote:=20 =20 Torstein! I think you are absolutely correct and = entitled to reserve your right not only to feel offended but to fight = back whenever we get carried away with our this black-and-proud songs.By = turning the tables on us(your changing of the words Black for White in = the article below) you have reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on = either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stance = all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these = black people make you feel guilty of offences committed by other whites. = And keep up the good work down there! = Regards Bassss!=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BCF38A.60975C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Mr.Payne!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>��&nbs= p;��=20 Your insight is well taken.Thanks and keep up the good work down=20 there!</FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>�</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>��&nbs= p;��= ;��= ��&= nbsp;��&n= bsp;��&nb= sp;��&nbs= p;��=20 Regards Bassss!</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px"> <P> <P>I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in = the=20 past, (even though I feel that a number of his comments were tainted = with=20 racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a brief comment at = this point.=20 =20 <P>I do hope that everyone has a good day.=20 <P>M W Payne=20 <P>Bassirou Dodou Drammeh wrote:=20 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE =3D CITE>�<FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20 size=3D-1>Torstein!</FONT></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20 = size=3D-1>��&nb= sp;=20 I think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve your = right=20 not only to feel offended but to fight back whenever we get = carried away=20 with our this black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables on = us(your=20 changing of the words Black for White in the article below) you = have=20 reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on either inflicting or = feeling=20 pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stance all the way.So,defend = your=20 WHITE rights and don't allow any of these black people make you = feel=20 guilty of offences committed by other whites.</FONT></FONT> = <FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>And keep up the good work down=20 there!</FONT></FONT>�<FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20 = size=3D-1>��&nb= sp;��&nbs= p;��= ;��= ��=20 Regards Bassss!</FONT></FONT> = </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BCF38A.60975C60-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:55:56 +0200 From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New members Message-ID: <19971117155615.AAA30712@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Greetings, Adama Sey, Bukhari Sillah and Arona John have all been added to the list. Welcome to the Gambia-l, we look forward to your contributions. Please send a brief introduction. Our address is gambia-l@u.washington.edu regards Momodou Camara *************************************************** http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:11:06 -0500 (EST) From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971117115311.25837C-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII MODOU: Thanks. It is interesting to hear that you are working with Kuntaur School because that is my alma matta. Infact, my parternal grand father founded Fulla Kunda, and called it" Kuntaur". The word "kuntaur" is a fulla word which means "a great pasture area for cattle". As people started to settle near the river they also called it Kuntaur. Now when others, in Jakaba and surrounding villages would travel to one of the kuntaurs, there was a confusion as to which one and as result, they would say Kuntaur Fulla Kunda (Kuntaur where the fullas live) and the other kuntaur simply remained that since there was a mixture of folks living there. As a result the town near the river became kuntaur and Fulla Kunda became Kuntaur Fulla Kunda or simply Fulla Kunda, and Jakaba became known as Kuntaur Jakaba or simply Jakaba. And, the Jakaba folks, at least, the elders who know the history still call me "Njati" (host) in reference to my grand fathers founding the area and giving them land to settle and build their own village. When my paternal grand father died, my dad was still in school at Armitage, which was meant only for sons of chiefs at the time , I am told. Therefore, my maternal grand father, Noperi Jawo took over the village leadership and today, I think my uncle, Dikory is heading the village. I have not been to the area for a long time, so may be when you get some time you can fill me in. I am told by Dr. Bojang, of Gambia College, that the area has changed. But anyway, the Danish seem to be doing good deeds back home, and I hope that our folks over there take good advantage of it. And, that the rest of us continue do what we can to help Gambian Education. If there is a way that I can be part of this Kuntaur project, I will be glad to participate. Thanks. Musa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:04:44 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal Message-ID: <9711172004.AA46862@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jainaba, you wrote: > Folks, > > Here we go again.... > When will this insanity STOP???????? America oh America, the only > remaining superpower, world's most industralised nation and democracy, > and a real GANGTERS PARADISE. I Hail thee!!! > > Very very moving... > > Later.... > > Jainaba. > ******************************************************************** > November 17, 1997 > > Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal > Much blessings and prayer for the brother. There is no shame in trying to making an honest living, but the turmoils of peace in America.... WHAT A SHAME!!!!!!! May his soul RIP Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:45:58 -0800 (PST) From: "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Ditah( KESEMBEBAA) Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96a.971117133118.28206A-100000@dante29.u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE =09I consider the message blow a private message and should have been sent directly to the party(ies) concerned, instead. Just a thought. =09Dawda singhateh On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Sompo Sinyan wrote: >=20 > Well Ditah, > This brougth a grate joy to recieve the introduction mail from you. > Well boy ,it has been a long time since we've heard from one another, > and I appologize ,it's really my fault actually . > Anyway i do also have access to internet in our company ,I also install > the system for other companies. > I hope your child is feeling in good health. > Boy I hope we can leave the past behind and look forward instead and no > hard feelings.We are friends remember. > All for now. > Yours > Sompo Sinyan >=20 > H=E4lsningar >=20 > Sompo Sinyan >=20 >=20 > _________________________________________________________________________= _ >=20 > Faktureringsadress: Bes=F6ksadress: > UDAC Installation UDAC > Box 174 L=E4gerhyddsv=E4gen 3 (Polacksbacke= n) > 75104 Uppsala Uppsala > Telefon: 018-187934 > Mobil : 0708-665534 >=20 >=20 >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 18:14:16 -0000 From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: color trouble.. Message-ID: <B0000017070@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Dear M W Payne. You wrote: >I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in the past, (even though I feel that a number of >his comments were tainted with racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a brief comment at this point. >I do hope that everyone has a good day. >M W Payne Could you please specify for an ignorant "toubab" like me where I have tainted my views with racism?! In order to learn and change you have to listen to advices from different sources, so I would much apreciate it if you could enlighten me on this. I really need to ask, why should the expression of pride in one's people be source of irritation for someone else???? So then it is Okey for me to say, horrray, a WHITE man just beat Tyson or Carl Lewis or whoever because "WHITES" are MY people?!? And then, why should I allow someone else to define for me, with whom I collectively identify? I will defend to my death your right to define anything you like, but as a consept my personal belief is that it is not the best way to make peace among people from around the world. If Mr. Torstein has a problem with expressions of Black pride or the expression of a positive Black identity, then I suggest that is his problem, and that he has some issues, that he has to resolve. A positive black identity?, where the important thing is that "MY COLOR" beat the bad "WHITE" people?!? After all, to categorize on ANY LEVEL is to be exclusionary to some group in the world. The Olympics is a vehicle for the type of pride expressed on a national level. Are the Olympics, or the type of pride which the Olympics foster wrong? You just said it my friend, the olympics being a big, wonderful mix of people from around the world of any color nuance competing on the basis of skills and talent and really not "COLOR"!!! Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always felt threatened when Black people express pride in themselves. I feel treathened by violent people, ignorant people, people with guns, fanatic people and people without humor, but you can beat your chest as much as you like for me, I will evaluate you by the things you do and not your "COLOR". For Black people to express this type of pride is not demeaning to others, as both of you would suggest, but rather, is the result of numerous historical processes. I am humble and sometimes depressed in the face of history, but for myself I make my own reputation, and will speak up if people use my skincolor to define me. If I express a love for my wife, does it demean other women??? I hope not!!! The Torstein argument is the same argument that I have heard time without number, coming from White people of various backgrounds (most NOT well intentioned) and a number of "liberal" Black folks, as to why there should be, for instance, Black Studies or Black History? The answer to that question is, all things being equal, that there should not be such programs. However, as we all know, All Things Are Not Equal! These programs, as well as the expression of Black pride are the historic result of the exclusion of the voices of Black people and their experiences in the larger arena. Now, when Black people get a voice, you try to silence that voice, on the alleged basis of being offensive to some people? M W Payne So the important thing here is to voice out color segregation but the other way? Should not the voice of opressed people fighting against colordiffences, be to fight against evaluating people based on color??! Best Regards, Torstein The Gambia BTW: if you look to the left on your keyboard, there is a "caps lock" function there that you might have overlooked. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:07:28 -0600 From: Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu> To: jai_diallo@hotmail.com, gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate -Reply Message-ID: <s4707a15.005@wpo.it.luc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Hi Jainaba, Please watch how you respond to other peoples mail. At the moment, I have more pressing issues to attend to and do not have the time, energy nor desire to engage in any petty fights. I think you need attitude adjustment. What seems to be your problem??? Why are you always on the defensive??? You should learn to discuss issues in a non confrontational manner. And please never ever try to put words in my mouth!!! You wrote: >Eventhough this is an emotional issue, I think the million-dollar >question should be: Do you expect the Gambian consulate to provide all >the needs of all Gambians in that locality??? We already have an >"organization" in gambia-l that I presume, can come together in such >times and raise funds. Where did this come from? I think no reasonable person in their right mind expects the govt. to hand everything down to them. I believe that is why some of us are to trying to get good education in order to be able to help ourselves and our families. However, in a case like this one, I do expect the govt. to at least provide some assistance to the Jallow family. After all, Alieu Badara's parents are taxpayers. I am sure some members of this forum will indeed contribute to the cause at hand. In fact a few people have already made donors. The reason why the consulate was contacted in the first place is because not many people came forward to provide assistance. >Remember that the consulate gets its funds from a government that has >ery little to offer. If they said that they don't have the necessary >funds, what else do you expect?? They should print more money, like >Idi Amin Dada??? Please save you sarcasm for those who are interested. The government may not have the funds to help the Jallow family, but they sure do have the funds to build a world class airport and some left over funds to deposit in the Swiss bank accounts of corrupt leaders, how hypocritical. >folks, I think talking is cheap!!! It is time for us all to put up or >shut up (excuse my style...no offence intended)...we shouldn't expect >the government to do everything for us. Lets help the families in need. Yes indeed talk is very cheap and only moronic people use it as an easy way out. I think you need to follow your own advise, put up or shut!! That is all for now, I got to run ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:08:31 -0500 (EST) From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: appology Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971117190533.7382B-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII My last nmessage to Modou Camara was not intended to be sent to the general Gambia L. It was meant to be sent to his private email, somehow something went wrong and I am trying to figure it out because this is the second time it has happened to me. My appologies. Musa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:58:33 -0500 From: SAMBA NJIE <snjie@gis.net> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: 50 Dalasi Notes On The Offer Message-ID: <3470E839.EB6@gis.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Camara, Momodou wrote: > > The following is an extract from FOROYAA issue of 6-13 November, > 1997 > > PRESIDENT JAMMEH DISPLAYING WEALTH!!!!!!! > Sometime ago President jammeh was on national television to display > 21 vehicles which, he said had been given him as gifts to various > government departments. He claimed that the money came from Allah's > World Bank. > > On 2 November, 1997, FOROYAA was asked to go near the State House > gate to witness President Jammeh's dishing out of D50 notes. > A large crowd had gathered and more were on their way to the State > House gate after hearing that President Jammeh was issuing money to > passers-by. Many were young children; some adults. > For example, Fama, who is said to be from Half Die end, is a ten > year old girl. She had a D50 note. One person who claimed to be Babou > Njie of Hegan Street had a D50 note. Others who were identified as > Musa Jallow, Musa Nyang, Lamin Camara, Ousman Bah, Mam Matty Faal and > Amie Mbye. > > Interviewing the elderly people who stood gazing after Jammeh had > disappeared from the view, they claimed that they are needy people > who have heard that the President was giving out money. > Unfortunately, they were not so lucky to get any form of assistance. > In fact one lady claimed that she lost her pair of shoes in the push > and pull. > The most amazing development was the refusal of some people to go > even though Jammeh had gone in anticipation that he would turn up > again. > > This reminds us of the days when Babandi Sissoho used to dish out > money. Beggars would walk from Serrekunda to Fajara and wait outside > all day just to see him pass. Sometimes they were driven by guards > but would linger somewhere in anticipation of his coming. > These people also just looked on with the hope that somehow Jammeh > would come back. > > These are the trappings of poverty. Poverty dehumanizes. It > transforms a person into a mere object of pity. It throws a person > at the mercy of blind circumstances. > We hope that this pitiful sight will enable the president, in > particular and all Gambians, in general, to see the terrible nature > of poverty and motivate all well meaning people not to rest until all > Gambians can live dignified lives free from poverty.How does Yaya get away with such sub-moronic statements/claims? If this is a sign of things to come, we better brace ourselves for a "Mobutucracy" Samba ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:02:58 -0800 (PST) From: lamin marenah <keita@rocketmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Hypocrisy or Ignorance...... Message-ID: <19971118010258.197.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello! It's been a long really dissapointed week waiting on list members to react to the current threats of aggression against the people of Iraq by uncle SAM. I have come to realise that certain unfavourable topics about uncle Sam have been treated with euphemisms or a little sympathetic by some members. In the interest of justice,we are all entitled to opinions regardless of how unpopular they might be. I am opinioned that the people of Iraq are being very unfairly treated by the international community in genaral and uncle Sam in particular. If the west is in any way not satisfied with how Saddam carries himself there should be a better way of dealing with it than subjecting all Iraqis to such inhumane conditions they have lived through for the past 7 years. I think uncle Sam is becoming the aggressor in this issue instead of showing good example to future world powers. If they could engineer the collapse of the soviet communist empire and remove unfavourable dictators i see no reason why innocent civillians in Iraq should suffer. I must also clarify that am in no way sympathetic to the so called "dictatorial regime" of Saddam but am only trying to be realistic as far as the plight of the innocent yet helpless civillians of Iraq goes. Could anybody out there justify why the "sins of the fathers should be visited on the sons" and mind you, cause you might also be justifying the "grandfather clause" in the U.S. segregation history. THANKS Lamin Marenah. __________________________________________________________________ Sent by Yahoo! Mail. Get your free e-mail at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 20:30:36 -0500 (EST) From: SANG1220@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: SANG1220@aol.com Subject: Obituary Message-ID: <971117203035_476214762@mrin44.mail.aol.com> Is there an account set up for those who want to contribute towards funeral expenses for our late brother and also please provide a phone number where one can call. Please do not expect the gambian embassy to help, they probably can't even afford to pay there staff.(laugh) Thanks Daddy Sang ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 18:41:29 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu, NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu Subject: Re: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate -Reply Message-ID: <19971118024129.11115.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Ndey Kumba, Since you gotta run, please do so in peace!! I still stand by the statement though: Talk is cheap, we should for a change put up or shut up!!!!!! Jainaba. PS: The arena is all yours....make my day!!!!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 21:32:47 -0800 From: Compaq Customer <seela@oz.net> To: "'GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: FW: Life Insurance (fwd) Message-ID: <01BCF3A7.8175CBC0@sense-sea-pm11-15.oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ps: List members; With the help of TONY LOUM ,I'm forwarding the full = details of the life Insurance issue I'd posted few days ago. Please take a moment , read it carefully & check it out=20 WASSALAM =20 ????????????????????? -----Original Message----- From: A. Loum [SMTP:tloum@u.washington.edu] Sent: Monday, November 17, 1997 11:59 AM To: Cheikh Faty Subject: Life Insurance (fwd) Faty, here is Sheku's posting on the life insurance which was written in = the summer. Maybe, you should reforward the message to Gambia-l and let = them reflect over it with the recent deaths that have been mounting this = year. You must have read from Jainaba Diallo that a Senegalese taxi = driver was also recently killed in New York. Thanks Tony=20 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 29 Jul 97 15:02:06 EDT From: "Dr. S. G. Kamara" <73244.2701@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu To: GAMBIA-L:=20 The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> ; Subject: Life Insurance Hello All, Per Mr. Tony Loum's request in response to Habib, I am presenting a = brief account of the insurance coverage which the Organization of = African Associations (OAA) successfully negotiated here in Seattle. The = OAA is an umbrella organization that comprises African and = African-American associations in Washington State. There have been some traumatic deaths of a few Africans during the last = few years. Generating adequate funds to complete the demanding funeral = arrangements and to ship the body were extremely difficult challenges. = The process usually involves somewhere around $7,000 -- outside the = reach of most uninsured individuals. Over the last year and a half, we talked to many insurance companies and = finally negotiated a concrete policy with one on the following simple = terms: 1. A group policy for which every subscribing individual of any OAA = member association will be eligible. 2. A simple, affordable, felxible, premium level. 3. Flexible payment schedule: monthly, quarterly, or annual. 4. A group rate based on the group's demographic averages (age, gender). Based on these, the major benefit of the policy we negotiated was as = follows: For a $10,000 life insurance policy, a member pays only $4.00 (four = dollars) per month, or $48.00 (forty-eight dollars) a year. This = translates to 40 cents per thousand dollars of benefit per month. Minor additional benefits to all members and their families include = additional cash benefits for accidental death and dismemberment (AD&D), = vision and prescription discounts, etc. The four key advantages of this insurance are: 1. There is no screening for anything. Members qualify upon = subscription. 2. Privacy: Individual/private demographic information of=20 member subscribers are not released to the Insurance=20 company. 3. If a subscribing member of our community dies, the insurance company = immediately writes the check for the amount of benefits to the = beneficiary with no questions asked, as long as they are identified by = OAA. Needless to say how happy and relieved we are to have this insurance in = place. We intend to work with the company to extend the policy to other states = in the U.S., as well as to different countries in Africa. If Africans in other locations are interested in pursuing this, DO NOT = SEND E-MAIL, but please WRITE to me at the Organization of African = Associations, P.O. Box 22413, Seattle, WA. 98122, USA. =20 PLEASE DO NOT SEND PRIVATE E-MAIL REGARDING THIS!!!l=20 Even though I have been peeping for a while, I have been following and = enjoying the discussions on Gambia-l. Keep the lively debates up. Back to peeper's paradise. Regards, S. G. Kamara. =20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:11:34 +0100 From: Sompo.Sinyan@udac.se (Sompo Sinyan) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Ditah( KESEMBEBAA)APPOLOGY Message-ID: <v01530501b0972922cd48@[193.44.78.221]> Dear list members!! My appology to all of you who recieved my mail sent to Ditah, I became to notice that while the botten has already been pressed. I hope to avoid such terrible mistakes in the future. Sompo H�lsningar Sompo Sinyan __________________________________________________________________________ Faktureringsadress: Bes�ksadress: UDAC Installation UDAC Box 174 L�gerhyddsv�gen 3 (Polacksbacken) 75104 Uppsala Uppsala Telefon: 018-187934 Mobil : 0708-665534 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:37:00 +0100 From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? Message-ID: <34718f3a.narud@relay.nsw.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt Sir, = I can't seem to find the words that would describe exactly how grateful = = I am at your reply of Nov.17th. You saved me much energy and time from = what would have been an angry outburst from my side. This man who comes from a country where black people are still referred = = to as "neger" and in whose language everything bad is black (svart) = should either put up or shut up. Black people are justified in patting on the back all blacks who marvel = = in any descipline, sports etc. This man's failure to see/accept that = colour was and continues to be the main criteria used in denying blacks = = their human rights just goes on to reaffirm the contempt that colourless= = people have always had for colourful people. Once more thank you for a job well done! A. Kabir Njie ---------- From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sent: 17. november 1997 7:03 To: ak; gambia-l; kolls567 Subject: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? <<File: part2.htm>> Torstein! I think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve = your righ t not only to feel offended but to fight back whenever we get carried = away with o ur this black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables on us(your changing = = of the wo rds Black for White in the article below) you have reminded us that = nobody has a monopoly on either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with = your stanc e all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these = black peop le make you feel guilty of offences committed by other whites. And keep up the good work down there! Regards Bassss! Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-S endmail It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300) id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with = = SMTP id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800 Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.7])= by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with = ESMTP id FAA36978 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:23 -0800 Received: from mail1.sn.no (0@mail1.sn.no [194.143.8.8]) by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with = ESMTP id FAA09534 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:21= -0800 Received: from mail2.sn.no (0@mail2.sn.no [194.143.8.114]) by mail1.sn.no= (8.8.6 /8.8.6/sol5) with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov = 1997 14:1 7:17 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by mail2.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5) with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov = 1997 14:17 :16 +0100 (MET) Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000 Message-Id: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000 Reply-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washingto n.edu> Subject: Color again.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Gambia-L. Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc. A short comment. My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails regarding my postings on color. However I still really believe that this emphasis on "white/black/color" = = is what we call in my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor). How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called "black"?! If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White" = people, I believe I would get some angry mails back?!? Just look(capital letters are mine): = >BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE???? >...What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a >time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a caddy >on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE >man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I >need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the >championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good >collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what the= = >dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years >masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I >think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but >hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports. >...So I thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE sports= = >and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of >them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK >sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a >fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the >idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football. >Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy >has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball >skills than being drafted into the NFL. > FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL... >The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why >some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey. >A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound >familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person >and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee >jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people >perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How >about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue? >Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm >sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there are= = >WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you ever >see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, if >WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know? >So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will.= = >Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have >my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on >the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last >physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get to= = the >economics one day), then its okay with me. >Cheers, >Torstein. Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like = brainwashing.... For me it is simple. Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it = only crea tes bad blood among humans. So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and = "WHITE"???? My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more, regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a = mesurement of people. As a person with a physical apperance that some people defines as "white"= = I will keep my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than "black = = color ra cism". Best Regards, Torstein The Gambia --------------------------------------------------------------------- amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no Narud Stokke Wiig AS R=E5dhusgt. 27 N-0158 OSLO NORWAY Tel: +47 22 33 06 70 Fax: +47 22 41 45 01 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:24:00 +0100 From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? Message-ID: <34719bd0.narud@relay.nsw.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt Hey there, = I just found out that I had made a mistake by double-clikking and = replying to the wrong posting but which had the same heading as the one I= = intended to respond to. The posting I meant to reply to is RE : The QUESTION of COLOUR????? sent = = in by M. W. Payne and not that by Bassirou Dodou Drammeh. I have copied = = Mr Payne's posting below. I regret any inconvenience caused and once again Mr. Payne, a big Thanks = = to YOU! Sir, = I can't seem to find the words that would describe exactly how grateful = = I am at your reply of Nov.17th. You saved me much energy and time from = what would have been an angry outburst from my side. This man who comes from a country where black people are still referred = = to as "neger" and in whose language everything bad is black (svart) = should either put up or shut up. Black people are justified in patting on the back all blacks who marvel = = in any descipline, sports etc. This man's failure to see/accept that = colour was and continues to be the main criteria used in denying blacks = = their human rights just goes on to reaffirm the contempt that colourless= = people have always had for colourful people. Once more thank you for a job well done! A. Kabir Njie ---------- From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sent: 17. november 1997 7:02 To: ak; gambia-l; awo Subject: Re: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? <<File: part2.htm>> Good day Mr. Torstein, Mr. Drammeh, and all Gambia-Lers, Now I think this "Question f Colour" is getting to the point of the ridiculous. I really need to ask, why should the expression of pride in one's people be source of irritation for someone else???? And then, why should I allow someone else to define for me, with whom I collectively identify? If Mr. Torstein has a problem with expressions of Black pride or the expression of a positive Black identity, then I suggest that is his problem, and that he has some issues, that he has to resolve. Why Mr. Drammeh would give support for this type of brooding is beyond me. Would either of you also condemn women who express pride in their sisters across the world who have accomplished something of merit and gotten local, national, or international publicity for it? Or would you condemn Gambians across the world, when a fellow Gambian achieved something great and other Gambians expressed pride in this achievement? After all, to categorize on ANY LEVEL is to be exclusionary to some group in the world. The Olympics is a vehicle for the type of pride expressed on a national level. Are the Olympics, or the type of pride which the Olympics foster wrong? Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always felt threatened when Black people express pride in themselves. And, even though Mr. Torstein likes to draw a distinction between himself and other White people, in this respect, he shows himself to be No Different. For Black people to express this type of pride is not demeaning to others, as both of you would suggest, but rather, is the result of numerous historical processes. If I express a love for my wife, does it demean other women??? I hope not!!! The Torstein argument is the same argument that I have heard time without number, coming from White people of various backgrounds (most NOT well intentioned) and a number of "liberal" Black folks, as to why there should be, for instance, Black Studies or Black History? The answer to that question is, all things being equal, that there should not be such programs. However, as we all know, All Things Are Not Equal! These programs, as well as the expression of Black pride are the historic result of the exclusion of the voices of Black people and their experiences in the larger arena. Now, when Black people get a voice, you try to silence that voice, on the alleged basis of being offensive to some people? Here we fall into the same cycle of silencing those who have traditionally had no voice!!! Although, I would affirm Mr. Torstein's right to express his unhappiness at these events, I understand that unhappiness, am unsympathetic toward the reason for that malaise, and even feel that I have the right and the obligation to express my outrage at this display of paternalism (for that is how I see it!) I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in the past, (even though I feel that a number of his comments were tainted with racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a brief comment at this point. I do hope that everyone has a good day. M W Payne Bassirou Dodou Drammeh wrote: > Torstein! I think you are absolutely correct and entitled > to reserve your right not only to feel offended but to fight back > whenever we get carried away with our this black-and-proud songs.By > turning the tables on us(your changing of the words Black for White in > the article below) you have reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on > either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stance > all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these > black people make you feel guilty of offences committed by other > whites. And keep up the good work down > there! Regards > Bassss! Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> > Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa > (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 > -0300) > id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) > with SMTP > id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800 > Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu > [140.142.32.7]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with > ESMTP > id FAA36978 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 > 05:17:23 -0800 > Received: from mail1.sn.no (0@mail1.sn.no [194.143.8.8]) > by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with > ESMTP > id FAA09534 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 > 05:17:21 -0800 > Received: from mail2.sn.no (0@mail2.sn.no [194.143.8.114]) by > mail1.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5) > with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov > 1997 14:17:17 +0100 (MET) > Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by > mail2.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5) > with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov > 1997 14:17:16 +0100 (MET) > Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm > (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>; > Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000 > Message-Id: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm> > Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000 > Reply-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: Color again.. > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Priority: 3 > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1Sent by "Torstein Grotnes= " > <tgr@commit.gm> > via Commit > > Gambia-L. > Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc. > A short comment. > My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails > regarding my postings on color. > However I still really believe that this emphasis on > "white/black/color" is what we call in > my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor). > How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called > "black"?! > If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White" > people, > I believe I would get some angry mails back?!?Just look(capital > letters are mine): > > >BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????>...What I > liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a > >time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a > caddy > >on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE > >man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I > >need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won > the > >championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good > >collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what > the > >dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years > >masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I > >think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but > > >hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports.>...So I > thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE sports > >and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of > >them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK > >sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a > >fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the > >idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football. > >Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy > > >has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has > basketball > >skills than being drafted into the NFL. > FOLKS HERE's THE > REAL DEAL... > >The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why > >some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey. > >A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound > >familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person > >and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee > >jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people > >perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How > >about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue? > >Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm > > >sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there > are > >WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you > ever > >see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, > if > >WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know?>So go ahead Mr. > Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will. > >Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have > >my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on > > >the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last > >physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get > to the > >economics one day), then its okay with me. > >Cheers, > >Torstein.Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like > brainwashing....For me it is simple. > Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it > only creates > bad blood among humans. > So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and > "WHITE"???? > My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more, > regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a > mesurement of people.As a person with a physical apperance that some > people defines as "white" I will keep > my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than > "black color racism".Best Regards, > Torstein > The Gambia > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no Narud Stokke Wiig AS R=E5dhusgt. 27 N-0158 OSLO NORWAY Tel: +47 22 33 06 70 Fax: +47 22 41 45 01 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
3 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Momodou	Posted - 10 Sep 2021 : 15:20:11 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 06:23:52 +0300 From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Junius' words Message-ID: <01bcf6f6$13573000$LocalHost@q-tel.qatar.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Absolutely on the point there! I was only depressed by the fact that something written so long ago as 'your' that speech would be so correct in describing the state of affairs of our continent even as we enter the fourth decade of our independence. Thanks for the excerpt and keep up the good work down there! Regards Basss! -----Original Message----- From: Modou Jallow <mjallow@st6000.sct.edu> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 22, 1997 4:53 AM Subject: Re: Junius' words >Bass, you wrote: > >> Mr.Jallow! >> You are really provocative! But I must admit that your this >> excerpt sounds dangerously close to discribing the present state of affairs >> of present day Africa.Please,try to be nice to us next time you send a >> Quote,and keep up the good work down there! >> >> >> Regards Bassss! >The excerpt above is directly related to our problem of lack of a >political >system that would serve as a road map to build a well-organized society. >We lack visionary leaders who can frame a government suitable for the >flowering of democracy and economic development. We condemn western ideas, >such as democracy, as unsuitable for our society, yet our intellectuals >look foolish making those accusations without a native substitute. We are >invariably impressed with people with higher education without asking >whether their acclaimed learning can transform our society. The >politicians we choose to lead us are chosen not for leadership skills that >develop society but for the client-patron relations we may acquire later >from them. When soldiers see the educated class and politicians doing >things for only themselves, they too imagine to become part of the system, >whereafter more hell breaks loose. > >The worst thing (sadly of course) is that any intellectual who seeks to >create modernization in Africa is condemned as too western for the nation. >Thus, to survive, he goes along, to get along. Is this not why some of us >refuse to go back home? > >Will we ever witness the "miracles" of change???????? > >Have an enjoyable weekend! > >Regards, >Moe S. Jallow > >========================================================================== > mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 00:06:04 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Another brother is down..... Message-ID: <19971122080605.11103.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Folks, I am speechless..... Jainaba. ******************************************************************** >By MARY BOYLE >.c The Associated Press > >DENVER (Nov. 21) - A 19-year-old skinhead confessed on television >today to taunting and killing a West African immigrant at a bus stop >and wounding and paralyzing a nurse who tried to intervene. > >The shootings Tuesday were part of a series of hate crimes just >before President Clinton is scheduled to arrive for a Saturday >fund-raising visit. A policeman answering a prowler call was >ambushed, and another officer gunned down after chasing a skinhead >suspect was mocked in death by having his name scrawled on a dead >pig. > >Nathan Thill, jailed for investigation of first-degree murder, denied >shooting anyone until an alleged accomplice, Jeremiah Barnum, 23, >surrendered late Thursday. Then, jailers allowed Thill to call in TV >stations before dawn to say he was the only one involved. > >''It wasn't a planned thing,'' Thill told KMGH-TV, speaking tersely. >''Drank a little bit. I'm a deep thinker. Walked through town with my >gun in my waist, saw the black guy and thought he didn't belong where >he was at. How easy it would be to just take him out right there. >Didn't seem like much to me.'' > >Thill said he taunted Oumar Dia, 38, who was from Mauritania, before >shooting him and was surprised that he wasn't more defensive. ''I >asked him, when I pointed the gun at him, if he was ready to die and >he said, 'Yes.''' > >Jeannie VanVelkinburg, 36, the mother of two boys, tried to help Dia >but was hit in the spine by a bullet and paralyzed from the waist >down, authorities said. > >The spectacle of a shaved-headed teen-ager with a swastika among his >many tattoos coolly discussing a racist killing in jailhouse >interviews shook Denver, a city with a black mayor that prides itself >on being modern and diverse. > >''We're not going to tolerate people shooting anyone regardless to >one's own beliefs based upon someone's color ... someone's gender or >sexual orientation, or whether they wear a blue uniform,'' Mayor >Wellington Webb said Thursday. > >''We're not going to tolerate it and we're not going to give up the >streets of Denver.'' > >Young skinheads also were suspected of involvement in a shooting and >carjacking Thursday in a working-class neighborhood. KUSA TV reported >today that police arrested a teen-ager whose parents turned him in. >Two other suspects were being sought. > >Officer Greg Vacca, responding to a prowler call at an apartment >complex, was shot at several times by someone crouched in the bushes. >Vacca fire back, but the attacker escaped and nobody was wounded. > >A short time later, Randy Hargrave was driving to his doctor's office >when he was stopped by two men and a woman who demanded a ride. One >man had a red tattoo on his arm and a shaved head. > >When he saw the men had guns, Hargrave stepped on the gas, hitting >one of them. Police later said one man fit the description of Vacca's >elusive gunman. > >On Wednesday, a police officer arrested a self-described skinhead at >a city motel. Police said the man had an assault rifle, ammunition, >some components for a pipe bomb and stolen license plates. > >The same day, police found a cruel reminder of another deadly >incident involving suspected skinheads. A dead pig was dumped in >front of a police >substation, the name of veteran Officer Bruce VanderJagt scrawled >across its torso. > >VanderJagt was killed last week with an assault rifle following a >30-mile car chase. The suspect, Mattheaus Jaehnig, 25, killed himself >with VanderJagt's service pistol. > >Jaehnig, a longtime member of a group called the Denver Skins, had >been arrested seven times since dropping out of high school. One >arrest was for ordering his dogs to attack a police officer - >VanderJagt. > > AP-NY-11-21-97 1004EST ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:01:21 -0800 From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! Message-ID: <34772C01.E54@swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jainaba! You wrote: > However, a FEW list members have consistently demonstrated their = > inability, either deliberate or otherwise, to grasp even the simplest = > ideas. This is not to ridicule them, but these intellectually challenge= d = > people just lack the ability to read and comprehend even the simplest = > sentence. I think we have to realise that Gambia-l is as diverse as The Gambia itself. You have secondary school graduates, those with O=B4 Levels, = A=B4 levels, Associate Degrees, B.A., Pg. Dips, Masters, Ph.Ds and maybe even Professors. Another thing we have to realise is that English is not our mother tongue. If the debates on this list were carried out in Wollof, Mandinka or any other Gambian language, those who have problems grasping even the simplest sentence would not have such problems because the debates would be in their language. We are not in any way perfect. = Because of the diversity of educational backgrounds, it is of course expected that the level of analysis is going to be different. Some of us are not as gifted or as adept at arguing points or providing "intellectual" analyses as others. I however don=B4t think that this is enough reason to shut up. I am not a founding member of Gambia-l but I don=B4t think Katim and co envisioned this list to be only for well educated people (correct me if I am wrong). In that case they would have had educational requirements for membership. Maybe something like: "Only those with Masters degrees and above and proof that they can argue intellectually need apply for membership". However, such a requirement is not present and therefore all members have a right to participate in the debates no matter how much of a "pepper soup analysis" they provide. We as receivers of such "pepper soup analysis"/analyses can conveniently delete in the privacy of our homes, schools, offices etc. whatever we deem rubbish without telling people that what they send is rubbish. We do not have such a right. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, my sense can be everyone else=B4s nonsense and vice versa. If I can read everyone else=B4s nonsense, then I definitely have a right to post my nonsense. This is the beauty of having a forum like Gambia-l. Another thing of beauty is that we can talk about things from an ordinary point of view. Gambia-l would be very boring if all that was sent to it was "intellectual". Thanks. Buharry. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Jainaba Diallo wrote: > = > Gambia-lers, > = > My take as per the thread: When intellectuals argue.... > = > It is necessary to, as much as possible, put an idea in the right > context so as to elicit some constructive intellectual input from > others, be it by way of reviews or criticism. > = > However, a FEW list members have consistently demonstrated their > inability, either deliberate or otherwise, to grasp even the simplest > ideas. This is not to ridicule them, but these intellectually challenge= d > people just lack the ability to read and comprehend even the simplest > sentence. In their response to a wide variety of postings, one is left > wondering whether they read the posting to which they were responding o= r > whether they are just plain ignorant. > = > Because not much is required to be on the list, it is not surprising > that people of different intellect and common sense find themselves in > the same newsgroup. I am not suggesting a rule or gatekeeper to weed ou= t > the morons or borderline *s, but the fact is that some people need= > to be spoon fed, literarily. They provide no humor, and are nothing but= > poster "boys" for ignorance. It is good that they are a TINY MINORITY, > otherwise this forum will be nothing but A CONFEDRACY OF DUNCES where > ignorance is embraced and common sense ridiculed. > = > There are also those who combine ignorance, stupidity, and humor. Thei= r > response sometimes leaves one wondering how they manage to go to > work(school) and find their way home everyday. Believe it or not, I can= > stand these people, because they kind of provide comic relief on the > list. It is atimes refreshing to read their pepper-soup analysis....Com= e > on, who doesn't need a laugh after a long days work. > = > Because of the above observation about the quality of debate since I > joined the list, and also because of some postings in the archieves fro= m > the same bunch of people, I will henceforth append a disclaimer to all > my postings to the list. > = > I don't claim to have monoply of wisdom, nor do I wish to limit the > scope of debate or criticism of my posting(s) by appending disclaimers= =2E > All, I ask is that people take the time to read and digest an idea > before rushing to the key board. Most importantly, people should aim at= > focusing on the issue at hand, rather than an unrelated issue (such as > the confrontation I've had with some folks in the past). > = > Hope that I have finally exhaled!! > = > Later.... > = > Jainaba. > = > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:24:59 -0800 From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: "Operation Dirty Trick" Message-ID: <3477318B.2075@swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! I read in the Stockholm Underground newspaper Metro an article which I think might be interesting to some. For those who do not find it interesting, my apologies. The article is in Swedish and this is my translation. Cuba would have received the blame if space journey failed John Glenn became USA=B4s first astronaut to travel around the world in 1962. If Glenn=B4s trip had failed, the American military had a plan read= y to blame it=B4s enemy Cuba for the failure. This is what the Washington Times wrote. The newspaper revealed a 35 year old plan, Operation Dirty Trick, that has just been declassified. The American goverment was so obsessed with its enmity with Cuba that it didn=B4t even think twice about getting false evidence to prove that Cuba= was ready to sabotage Glenn=B4s trip. If the trip had failed, American agents would have been able to provide proof that Fidel Castro=B4s government was responsible. SOURCE: TT-DPA in Metro, Friday, 21st. November 1997 This from a country that is supposedly the world leader in democracy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 12:02:06 -0000 From: "jgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: It's the economy, Narr Message-ID: <B0000018201@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sent by "Joern Grotnes" <jgr@commit.gm> via Commit Bass, >this debate "further" as you requested,esp. now that many of Thanks for enlightening me on the situation in The Gambia, seen from = your point of view, it is appreciated. I am truly sorry that your reply escaped my attention for a long time, = I've only kept half an eye on the Gambia-L lately due to being busy. I = admit I thought you had taken the advice of the "discussion-stoppers", = and ignored me. (My impression is that lately many people on the List are concerning = themself about what others are doing on the list, including asking = people to leave and even critisising the ways ideas are presented. I = have a background from BBS systems, and know how easily the heat can = ruin the discussion, so I am glad we can keep a discussion on this calm = level, even when disagreeing strongly.) The reason I used the word "Lebanese" is due to the fact that "Narr" = means nothing to me, except that it means "Fool" (or "Jester") in = Norwegian. I have had some discussions with my Gambian friends here, and = I find that there is invariable a resentment against Lebanese. The = arguments are much similar to the ones you find against Jews, without = comparisition otherwise, that they keep to themself, are stingy with = their money and sometimes that have low business morals. On the other = hand, when I inquire about this or that one specific guy, I can often = get the response that "he's okay". (In other cases it is: he's a crook, = but that is a respone I also can often get when inquiring about a = Gambian businessman). I have read your piece carefully, and I read it more as a constructive = criticism against ineffective government than against the Narrs as a = "race". They are, as you say, everywhere there is money to be made or = power to be had (boils down to the same), in that respect they are not = from any special nationality. In Australia, they are Chinese, in Ghana, = Indian (some places in Norway, the Western Norwegians are perceived in = this way too) etc. etc. These are commonly known as businessmen and they = are in the business to make money. It's pretty futile to discuss if the = Gambians scepticism agains them or their non-interest in venturing = outside their groups came first, the situation of isolation (and = therefore the perception of "them" as a group) exists.=20 About government, I agree with you that the government's duty is to make = sure that the business going on in the country is beneficial to the = country and the country's inhabitants.=20 But I don't agree with you that the Gambian government is capable of = doing any good to their economy by restricting any kind of business. = Incentives to improve the situation for local businessmen are not easy = to invent, therefore governments often prefer to tax the non-local = businessmen in stead, which gives more money to the state but does = nothing to improve the level of activity in the country. I think the = Gambia government is "top heavy" to a very large extent, that means they = have far too much government in relation to the business they govern. = Most counties has had to learn the lesson that you cannot improve a = country by increasing government spending, no matter how nice it is that = a lot of people can get a job there. Reason being that government does = not produce anything. Since I'm deviating from the original issue anyway, I must say that one = source of wonder for me has been the stability of the Dalasi. Now, I am = starting to wonder if the reason it is so stable is excactly the fact = that The Gambia is currently producing very little. If the money used to = run The Gambia is mainly "foreign aid", and there is not enough = production to generate any large values by export, the Dalasi is in = effect identical with whatever Western valuta is used to shore up the = economy. Any inputs on that thought? Best regards, Jorn Commit The Gambia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 12:36:38 -0000 From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! Message-ID: <B0000018204@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Gambia-L. If I didn't know that this mail was from a "sister" I would swear that it had to come from one of the Neo-Nazi discussion groups. Such a description of persons based only on a few sentences sent by mail from any of them, is not just outrageous but clearly discriminating and tastes of an arrogance that belongs in another era. The "disclaimer" at the end is if possible even more arrogant and shows an ignorance of its own writing. Bassirou and G-L. If the future thread of Gambia-L is to allow these "viewpoints" to stand uncorrected, I will personally be very disappointed and feel discouraged in participating actively on this forum. My view is that this kind of mocking and harassment has nothing to do in a moderated discussion list like this. I believe one aspect of intelligence is called "social intelligence" and is supposed to make a person capable of participating with other persons on a minimum level of decency and respect for others. >From The Gambia Torstein > Gambia-lers, > > My take as per the thread: When intellectuals argue.... > > > It is necessary to, as much as possible, put an idea in the right > context so as to elicit some constructive intellectual input from > others, be it by way of reviews or criticism. > > However, a FEW list members have consistently demonstrated their > inability, either deliberate or otherwise, to grasp even the simplest > ideas. This is not to ridicule them, but these intellectually challenged > people just lack the ability to read and comprehend even the simplest > sentence. In their response to a wide variety of postings, one is left > wondering whether they read the posting to which they were responding or > whether they are just plain ignorant. > Because not much is required to be on the list, it is not surprising > that people of different intellect and common sense find themselves in > the same newsgroup. I am not suggesting a rule or gatekeeper to weed out > the morons or borderline *s, but the fact is that some people need > to be spoon fed, literarily. They provide no humor, and are nothing but > poster "boys" for ignorance. It is good that they are a TINY MINORITY, > otherwise this forum will be nothing but A CONFEDRACY OF DUNCES where > ignorance is embraced and common sense ridiculed. > > There are also those who combine ignorance, stupidity, and humor. Their > response sometimes leaves one wondering how they manage to go to > work(school) and find their way home everyday. Believe it or not, I can > stand these people, because they kind of provide comic relief on the > list. It is atimes refreshing to read their pepper-soup analysis....Come > on, who doesn't need a laugh after a long days work. > > Because of the above observation about the quality of debate since I > joined the list, and also because of some postings in the archieves from > the same bunch of people, I will henceforth append a disclaimer to all > my postings to the list. > > I don't claim to have monoply of wisdom, nor do I wish to limit the > scope of debate or criticism of my posting(s) by appending disclaimers. > All, I ask is that people take the time to read and digest an idea > before rushing to the key board. Most importantly, people should aim at > focusing on the issue at hand, rather than an unrelated issue (such as > the confrontation I've had with some folks in the past). > > Hope that I have finally exhaled!! > > Later.... > > Jainaba. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 12:06:01 -0800 From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp1.erols.com Subject: Re: Another brother is down..... Message-ID: <34773B29.1813@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jainaba Diallo wrote: > > Folks, > > I am speechless..... > > Jainaba. > ****************************************************************** > > >By MARY BOYLE > >.c The Associated Press > > > >DENVER (Nov. 21) - A 19-year-old skinhead confessed on television > >today to taunting and killing a West African immigrant at a bus stop > >and wounding and paralyzing a nurse who tried to intervene. > > > >The shootings Tuesday were part of a series of hate crimes just >before > President Clinton is scheduled to arrive for a Saturday >fund-raising > visit. A policeman answering a prowler call was >ambushed, and another > officer gunned down after chasing a skinhead >suspect was mocked in > death by having his name scrawled on a dead >pig. > > > >Nathan Thill, jailed for investigation of first-degree murder, denied > >shooting anyone until an alleged accomplice, Jeremiah Barnum, 23, > >surrendered late Thursday. Then, jailers allowed Thill to call in TV > >stations before dawn to say he was the only one involved. > > > >''It wasn't a planned thing,'' Thill told KMGH-TV, speaking tersely. > >''Drank a little bit. I'm a deep thinker. Walked through town with my > >gun in my waist, saw the black guy and thought he didn't belong where > >he was at. How easy it would be to just take him out right there. > >Didn't seem like much to me.'' > > > >Thill said he taunted Oumar Dia, 38, who was from Mauritania, before > >shooting him and was surprised that he wasn't more defensive. ''I > >asked him, when I pointed the gun at him, if he was ready to die and > >he said, 'Yes.''' > > > >Jeannie VanVelkinburg, 36, the mother of two boys, tried to help Dia > >but was hit in the spine by a bullet and paralyzed from the waist > >down, authorities said. > > > >The spectacle of a shaved-headed teen-ager with a swastika among his > >many tattoos coolly discussing a racist killing in jailhouse > >interviews shook Denver, a city with a black mayor that prides itself > >on being modern and diverse. > > > >''We're not going to tolerate people shooting anyone regardless to > >one's own beliefs based upon someone's color ... someone's gender or > >sexual orientation, or whether they wear a blue uniform,'' Mayor > >Wellington Webb said Thursday. > > > >''We're not going to tolerate it and we're not going to give up the > >streets of Denver.'' > > > >Young skinheads also were suspected of involvement in a shooting and > >carjacking Thursday in a working-class neighborhood. KUSA TV reported > >today that police arrested a teen-ager whose parents turned him in. > >Two other suspects were being sought. > > > >Officer Greg Vacca, responding to a prowler call at an apartment > >complex, was shot at several times by someone crouched in the bushes. > >Vacca fire back, but the attacker escaped and nobody was wounded. > > > >A short time later, Randy Hargrave was driving to his doctor's office > >when he was stopped by two men and a woman who demanded a ride. One > >man had a red tattoo on his arm and a shaved head. > > > >When he saw the men had guns, Hargrave stepped on the gas, hitting >one > of them. Police later said one man fit the description of Vacca's > >elusive gunman. > > > >On Wednesday, a police officer arrested a self-described skinhead at >a > city motel. Police said the man had an assault rifle, ammunition, >some > components for a pipe bomb and stolen license plates. > > > >The same day, police found a cruel reminder of another deadly >incident > involving suspected skinheads. A dead pig was dumped in >front of a > police > >substation, the name of veteran Officer Bruce VanderJagt scrawled > >across its torso. > > > >VanderJagt was killed last week with an assault rifle following a > >30-mile car chase. The suspect, Mattheaus Jaehnig, 25, killed himself > >with VanderJagt's service pistol. > > > >Jaehnig, a longtime member of a group called the Denver Skins, had > >been arrested seven times since dropping out of high school. One > >arrest was for ordering his dogs to attack a police officer - > >VanderJagt. > > > > AP-NY-11-21-97 1004EST > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quelle domage!!! This is real terrorism May his soul rest in peace Habib ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 12:24:52 -0500 From: "Amadou L. Fall" <jambaar@enter.net> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: lets' do it Message-ID: <199711221723.MAA15868@mail.enter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I second Malanding's suggestion that we set up some formal group to coordinate the effort. You can count me in as an interested party. Peace to All!!! Amadou Fall ---------- > From: Malanding S. Jaiteh <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: lets' do it > Date: Thursday, November 20, 1997 4:23 PM > > I think this is an idea whichlong overdue. However, it will be > important that we consider all options before we get into it. > Earlier on Dr Kamara in Seatle forwarded something on life insurance > . I will suggest that a team be set up to review the various suggestions and > come up with reccommendations. > > Malanding Jaiteh > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 20:03:09 +0200 From: chakys@image.dk To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Another brother is down..... Message-ID: <199711221901.UAA25758@mail.image.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi G-lers, We are constantly in danger in some areas. About 2 weeks, one sudanese student has been killed by a skinhead in the CZECH republic. What's unbearable is in Denmark , the skinheads are fri to do what they like. During the last general election (18 of nov) a head of the danes nazi organisation was a candidate in GREVE town. Here they have their own radio station, papers, tapes......Fortunately , he was not successful. May those brothers soul rest in peace. Chakys. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 00:32:47 +0300 From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! Message-ID: <01bcf78e$2da906c0$182385c2@kolls567> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Torstein! I think Mr.Gassama has already addressed Jainaba's attitude in such a simple and clear manner that I cannot match.All I need to add to that is that this Forum is a Gambian Village and not a research Centre at Columbia or Cambridge;and ,as a result,it is the responsibility of the people with 'higher IQs' to make sure that the loaded messages they send to us,the little people,are simplified to a degree that would allow us to figure out what the message is all about.And if they fail to do their that homework properly,then they should desist from blaming us for our lack of understanding. And ,finally,stop worrying too much and Cheer up! because my hunch is that Jainaba will eventually calm down and start working with the group instead of in opposition to it.And keep up the good work down there! Regards Basssss! -----Original Message----- From: tgr@commit.gm <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Date: 22/��/1418 10:15 � Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! >Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> > via Commit > > > >Gambia-L. > >If I didn't know that this mail was from a "sister" >I would swear that it had to come from one of ************************************************************************ Jainaba wrote:- I don't claim to have monoply of wisdom, nor do I wish to limit the >> scope of debate or criticism of my posting(s) by appending disclaimers. >> All, I ask is that people take the time to read and digest an idea >> before rushing to the key board. Most importantly, people should aim at >> focusing on the issue at hand, rather than an unrelated issue (such as >> the confrontation I've had with some folks in the past). >> >> Hope that I have finally exhaled!! >> >> Later.... >> >> Jainaba. >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:30:06 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! Message-ID: <9711222230.AA42082@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bass, you wrote: > > Torstein! > I think Mr.Gassama has already addressed Jainaba's attitude > in such a simple and clear manner that I cannot match. Bass, Thank you for noticing the "glamourous" way our brother, Buharry, responded to Jainaba's triffling remarks pertaining to the members of this list. Any attempt by me to add anything to that would squander the purpose of his excellent response. I see Jainaba's response as nothing more than an open insult to the nice and peaceful members of Gambia-L. If I were her, I would simply apologize and move on. She has angered many members of this list, especially some of the ladies. We, the men, tend to ignore her remarks simply because we respect her as a "sister" and a "lady" but there comes a time when one has to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. For someone who seems to "know it all", it is amazing how she failed to realize that on the internet, freedom of speech is prized as a way of life rather than a dim of abstraction. I will say no more on this. Just a thought (and happily enjoying my weekend with my family). Have a good one too. Regards, Moe S. Jallow ======================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 06:29:37 +0300 From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! Message-ID: <01bcf7c0$06fda940$312385c2@kolls567> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mr.Jallow! What more could I say except thank you and keep up the good work down there! Regards Basssss! -----Original Message----- From: Modou Jallow <mjallow@st6000.sct.edu> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Date: 23/��/1418 07:33 � Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! >Bass, you wrote: > >> >> Torstein! >> I think Mr.Gassama has already addressed Jainaba's attitude >> in such a simple and clear manner that I cannot match. > >Bass, > >Thank you for noticing the "glamourous" way our brother, Buharry, >responded to Jainaba's triffling remarks pertaining to the members of this >list. Any attempt by me to add anything to that would squander the purpose >of his excellent response. I see Jainaba's response as nothing more than >an open insult to the nice and peaceful members of Gambia-L. If I were >her, I would simply apologize and move on. She has angered many members of >this list, especially some of the ladies. We, the men, tend to ignore her >remarks simply because we respect her as a "sister" and a "lady" but there >comes a time when one has to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. For someone who seems >to "know it all", it is amazing how she failed to realize that on the >internet, freedom of speech is prized as a way of life rather than a dim >of abstraction. I will say no more on this. > >Just a thought (and happily enjoying my weekend with my family). > >Have a good one too. > >Regards, >Moe S. Jallow > >======================================================================== > mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 00:48:03 -0500 (EST) From: MJagana@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Fwd: Subscription Message-ID: <971123004802_508320276@mrin83.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-21 18:46:05 EST, BSallah writes: << Please subscribe her to Gambia-L. Her address is: yjeng@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu Thanks Isha Sallah >> --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Subscription Date: 97-11-21 18:46:05 EST From: BSallah To: MJagana Hi Jagana: I was able to get Yaikah's correct address. Please subscribe her to Gambia-L. Her address is: yjeng@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu Thanks Isha Sallah ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 21:53:50 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! Message-ID: <19971123055350.22207.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mr. Gassama, Your's below is the only one worth a response (as per this thread). I will do so tomorrow. Kinda busy tonite. Yours in diaspora, Jainaba. ******************************************************************** > > I think we have to realise that Gambia-l is as diverse as The Gambia >itself. You have secondary school graduates, those with O=B4 Levels, = > >A=B4 levels, Associate Degrees, B.A., Pg. Dips, Masters, Ph.Ds and maybe >even Professors. Another thing we have to realise is that English is not >our mother tongue. If the debates on this list were carried out in >Wollof, Mandinka or any other Gambian language, those who have problems >grasping even the simplest sentence would not have such problems because >the debates would be in their language. We are not in any way perfect. = > >Because of the diversity of educational backgrounds, it is of course >expected that the level of analysis is going to be different. Some of us >are not as gifted or as adept at arguing points or providing >"intellectual" analyses as others. I however don=B4t think that this is >enough reason to shut up. I am not a founding member of Gambia-l but I >don=B4t think Katim and co envisioned this list to be only for well >educated people (correct me if I am wrong). In that case they would have >had educational requirements for membership. Maybe something like: "Only >those with Masters degrees and above and proof that they can argue >intellectually need apply for membership". However, such a requirement >is not present and therefore all members have a right to participate in >the debates no matter how much of a "pepper soup analysis" they provide. >We as receivers of such "pepper soup analysis"/analyses can conveniently >delete in the privacy of our homes, schools, offices etc. whatever we >deem rubbish without telling people that what they send is rubbish. We >do not have such a right. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, my sense >can be everyone else=B4s nonsense and vice versa. If I can read everyone >else=B4s nonsense, then I definitely have a right to post my nonsense. >This is the beauty of having a forum like Gambia-l. Another thing of >beauty is that we can talk about things from an ordinary point of view. >Gambia-l would be very boring if all that was sent to it was >"intellectual". Thanks. > Buharry. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 01:59:56 -0500 (EST) From: KTouray@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re:Number for Habib Message-ID: <971123015955_-1667336944@mrin39> 3015659427 ------------------------------ End of GAMBIA-L Digest 95 ***********************
Momodou	Posted - 10 Sep 2021 : 15:19:44 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:29:22 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: My take.......... Message-ID: <19971120002925.6276.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Heidi, If you can't handle it, my only advice for you is: Please "baptize" your daughter....give her another name!!!! Jainaba. ******************************************************************* >Jainaba, >please stop quarreling in such an aggressive way with people on the >list. It really make me feel bad. Maybe it hits me even more because >you are my daughter's "toma". What used be a beautiful name to me is >about to become the name of a troublemaker. >Please, try some more peaceful ways of formulating your points. > >Heidi Skramstad > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:54:28 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: White sports in White America.... Message-ID: <19971120005432.23582.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mr Njie, I am really flattered by your kind remarks below....all the same, thank you very much!!! I am glad to know that atleast there are some list members who ponder about what I write rather than attacking me unnecessarily. So I hereby grant you my consent to translate it. Enjoy the football game!!! Hope your team wins. I AM STILL ON MY FEET AND WILL REMAIN SO...HECKLERS OR NO HECKLERS!!! Very appreciative, Jainaba. ***************************************************************** Jai, Whatever the pundits on this list may mean about you, I for one recognize talent from a distance when I see one. Amid all the talk about RACE, which no ** can run away from,especially in Babylon (however much we try to delude ourselves) I saw in the "White Sports in White America" a beautiful reflection of an African mind. It was only this morning on my way to work that I happened to read the piece, which had been in my bag for the past couple of days. When I put two and two together I realized that only a white mind (and a **** mind - I know exactly where and when to use the word) can fail to see the literary beauty and potential in this magnificient piece. I plan to spend the rest of the evening (before the football match) translating the posting in Norwegian so that I can read it to my children during the weekend. I hereby request your permission to do so. I'll show it to my wife first thing when I get home! AND KEEP STANDING UP! A. Kabir Njie. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:30:58 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Liberia on the US Message-ID: <19971120033058.19034.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain >I have also wondered why "no US president had made a state visit to Africa >since 1978." I thought Hillary just returned from a trip to Uganda and some other countries in eastern and sounthern Africa(grin) :-) Cheerio, Jainaba. > >Please, don't tell me it is only because of security reasons. > >Regards, >Moe S. Jallow ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:14:53 -0500 From: M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: color trouble.. Message-ID: <3473B93D.9BCF6EE5@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good day all, Sorry for the delay in answering Mr. Torstein's query, and addressing the other issues raised but, work has my hands tied, both day and night and I have just returned to my email, to find too many issues to respond to. I will try to respond to Mr. Torstein first. Mr. Torstein you wrote: >Could you please specify for an ignorant "toubab" like me >where I have tainted my views with racism?! >In order to learn and change you have to listen to advices from different >sources, so I would much apreciate it if you could enlighten >me on this. There is one string of comments which amplify your position on this issue. In your response to my Mr. Njie, you made some interesting statements. The exchange went as follows: >> Till this day blacks are attacked physically all over the "Western > > world" by dint of our colour. If the victims are lucky they come out of >> it alive. The day you are attacked physically in The Gambia/Africa it >> will be to be robbed because some poor criminal needs food to eat, not >> because of racial hatred. > I have no statistics to prove you otherwise, but the little I have heard from the US > is that a majority of dark skinned people are actually killed/attacked by other > dark skinned people?! Also there seems to be certain areas in the US where a person >with a light complexion really, really should not go?! What Mr. Njie was pointing out, was the difference in the motivations for crime. He did not say that crime was good in one case, and bad in the other, but he was pointing out what some of us know all too well. In short, he was stating that crimes based exclusively on race, were exclusively perpetrated by White people against people of color. The reverse is not true. In your response, you first reply with the non-sequitur, concerning violent crimes of "dark skinned people" against "other dark skinned people." This is undeniable, there are far too many violent crimes committed here, and certainly Black people assailing Black people is an issue. However, this has nothing to do with the issue. But, if this so called "Black on Black" crime is true, can the other side of the coin also be true? A proliferation of Black on White crime? If both are true, then one could come to no other conclusion from your argument that "dark skinned people" are inherently violent and evil. Is this not a racist notion? The idea that "there are certain areas in the US where a person with a light complexion really, really should not go" is a common ploy used by many White racists and conservatives here, to justify both White fear and police brutality within the Black communities and against Black people everywhere. However, this apprehension is baseless and without facts. Where are these areas? Harlem is one area which is often named. Well, in the late �80s, in a White area called Howard Beach, where a Black motorist ran out of gas (petro), and he and his passenger (another Black man) left the car to get something to eat before getting the fuel. The two were chased and beaten by a White mob, for being in their neighborhood. One of the men, in order to escape the mob, ran into traffic and was killed. The next day the news cameras were out doing their journalistic investigation, and went around asking (White) community residents about the matter. Many residents responded angrily, that they (the two Black men) shouldn't have been in the neighborhood, especially at night. "After all, we cannot go to and are not safe in Harlem!" Now, Harlem (not Haarlem) is a historic Black neighborhood in New York City of some 200,000 people (unless you include "Spanish Harlem, in which case you can add roughly another 100,000 to that figure). Although largely African American, there are people of all nationalities and regions living, and working within Harlem. White people live in Harlem (not many, but a number do), quite a number of White people work in Harlem, and this much maligned community has not shown any incident of color hatred, manifested through an attack on a White person on the basis of his hue. The singular incident which I could recall which peripherally supports your claim, was the isolated case, after the verdict in the infamous trial of eight White police officers, who were caught on video tape beating the hell out of a Black motorist who was speeding. The tape clearly showed that the Black man, Rodney King, was on the ground, and eight police officers, were getting their daily exercise, by viciously clubbing the grounded Rodney King. There was no resistence; there was no provocation by the hapless King, however the man was beaten to a pulp, and then the police proceeded to beat the pulp! As a result of the videotape, the officers were brought to trial, however the case was moved from the jurisdiction of the incident to an all White community in California. The all White jury, in the face of all the evidence - including the video tape, acquitted the White officers. This signaled a rage within the Black community, that even in the face of irrefutable evidence, that justice would not be served. Unfortunately, this rage manifested itself in the wanton, and random beating of any White person within reach. An innocent White man, Reginald Denny, was dragged out of his vehicle, and beaten unmercifully, by a Black mob. This, is the only case, which I can recall, that a White person was ever beaten on the basis of his race. All of this is to say, that under normal circumstances there is no record of "Black racism" as you would like us to believe. But your racism prevails, when you provoke unwarranted fear of Black people (in the USA) based on color, when the circumstances do not warrant it. >> I really need to ask, why should the expression of pride in one's people be source of >> irritation >> for someone else???? >So then it is Okey for me to say, horrray, a WHITE man just beat Tyson or Carl Lewis or >whoever >because "WHITES" are MY people?!? In a historical context, one could never equate the two scenarios, precisely because Black participation has traditionally been excluded from such activities. White participation has not, So there is nothing new to White participation and therefore White winning. Once again, you overlook and ignore, the historical and contemporary context of these responses. Perhaps, because White people have always had high visibility in the record books, history books, and any other book you can think of, you do not have a sense of urgency. However, as the statements of either: Black inferiority, or general lack of fitness of Black people for anything worth merit, one by one fall down, through the efforts and achievements of People of Color, I and others will cheer these achievements and cheer them LOUDLY and WITHOUT APOLOGY!!! If you do not cheer, then that is your right; I understand it quite well; in fact, I wouldn't expect you to cheer. In 1936, the Black man Jesse Owens proudly knocked down some "Aryan" notions of racial superiority in the heart of Nazi Germany, by defeating the best that the "Aryan" nation had to offer, by winning four gold medals. Millions cheered that achievement (and continue to cheer similar accomplishments until tomorrow.) Of course, there are also millions who jeered and lamented that achievement (and continue to jeer and lament similar accomplishments until the twelfth of never.) Whereas Jesse Owens's victory over these peculiar ethnic notions did not imply Black athletic superiority over White people, a notion which you seem to want to ascribe to those of us who dare cheer Black achievement; but it did serve to knock down a myth of Black inferiority in one arena of life (with implications extending to other arenas.) When the Brown Bomber, Joe Louis, defeated Max Schmeling, he not only defeated another boxer, but he kicked the butt of a racist theory of White supremacy. The reverse has never been true, because Blacks have never been in similar positions of power on a global basis. You see Mr. Torstein, the idea of racism revolves around the issue of power and how that power influences collective behavior. Blacks have never been in such positions of power to influence collective behavior, while the recognition you receive as "toubab" has nothing to do with either power or behavior. In looking at television in the 1960s, (before you were born) many of us cheered the few times we saw a Black person momentarily appear on the television screen for the brief quarter of a second that he or she would appear in a television commercial. I can remember those experiences vividly! Why? Because we were traditionally excluded from participation in the larger society, nationally, and globally, on the basis of color! Was this exclusion a situation of our (read, our = Black people's) creation? I think that even you should see the point here. Again, the issues of power and behavior arise. My annoyance stems from the fact that as we react to situations which have been thrust upon us, you feel threatened because some of us feel a sense of solidarity, based upon common experiences of oppression and the melanin we have in common. >> And then, why should I allow someone else to define for me, with whom I collectively >> identify? > I will defend to my death your right to define anything you like, but as a consept my > personal > belief is > that it is not the best way to make peace among people from around the world. Oh, I see, and you are saying that any sense of Black solidarity is responsible for that lack of peace? Yeah, right! This is a common ploy utilized by those who are not concerned with our best interest; "Blame the victim for being victimized." And any attempt to break out of the cycle of victimization, meets with the criticism of those who benefit from our subordinate position. >> If Mr. Torstein has a problem with expressions of Black pride or the expression of a >> positive Black >> identity, then I suggest that is his problem, and that he has some issues, that he has to >> resolve. >A positive black identity?, where the important thing is that "MY COLOR" beat the bad >"WHITE" >people?!? That is interesting. According to my understanding of your response there can be nothing like a positive Black identity. Furthermore, I see that you have a problem of interpretation. I don't remember characterizing events like you have. Why did you use the adjective "bad" to characterize "WHITE people?" Is this something that I have actually written on this list in the above context? Or is this a creation of your own mind? I would suggest "you look before you [make the inductive] leap" This is your characterization, not mine. If one were to follow your characterization, then any team or individual whom I support, would be contesting against an evil or "bad" opponent. So, when I cheer an individual (whom I support), then it is obviously because the opponent was a bad and nasty team or individual. Does this reasoning makes sense to you? >> After all, to categorize on ANY LEVEL is to be exclusionary to some group in the world. >> The >> Olympics is a vehicle for the type of pride expressed on a national level. Are the >> Olympics, or >> the type of pride which the Olympics foster wrong? >You just said it my friend, the olympics being a big, wonderful mix of people from around >the world >of any >color nuance competing on the basis of skills and talent and really not "COLOR"!!! Again, thank you for conveniently missing the point. In the Olympics, people compete on the basis of skill, training, and NATIONALITY. Nationality is a category which, can be and is framed to be inclusive of some, but excludes others. Is this a problem for you? Probably not if I remember some of your earlier posts correctly. You don't mind categorization on any other level than color. People cheer for national pride in the Olympics. Team members cheer on fellow team members, not because of the INTRINSIC qualities each individual team member has, but because they are TEAM MEMBERS! Well, for me one team I am proud to belong to is the team, which wears the Black suits all day long, even if there are some disgruntled team members who do not consider themselves to be part of the team. That goes with the territory. And by the way, the paragraph you are referencing looks at the sources of pride within the Olympics, not the idea of the bases of competition. >> Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always felt threatened >> when Black >> people express pride in themselves. >I feel treathened by violent people, ignorant people, people with guns, fanatic people >and people without humor, but you can beat your chest as much as you like for me, >I will evaluate you by the things you do and not your "COLOR". And that is fine. I will recognize you by whatever distinguishing characteristic you possess, not by ignoring them. You keep confusing recognition, with evaluation, which are not the same. Admittedly, one could simultaneously recognize and evaluate any phenomenon one chooses, however, this is not necessarily the case. In an earlier post I seem to recall (and I am sure that you will correct me if I am wrong) that you mentioned your resentment to people or children, specifically (I forget which one, and have deleted that post) who see you and refer to you as "Toubab" This is the point of recognition for the people who greet you as so. There is no evaluation of your character on the basis of this designation. After all, neither your name nor your nationality are printed on your forehead for all to see and read, so no one can refer to you in that manner, if they first meet you or develop nothing more than a passing acquaintance with you. It is ridiculous for me to reference "that fruit" when I want to refer to an orange in a bowl of apples. The orange in the midst of apples serves as its own reference! Your whiteness in a land of Black people is a distinguishing characteristic. No rocket scientist needed here. Like it or not, that is the reality. It is not a comment on your character or personality, it is a comment on your appearance. Period. >> For Black people to express this type of pride is not demeaning to others, as both of you >> would >> suggest, but rather, is the result of numerous historical processes. >I am humble and sometimes depressed in the face of history, but for myself I make my >own >reputation, and will speak up if people use my skincolor to define me. That, again, is a problem with which you will have to live. It is either silly or extremely naive to think that we arrive and act in the world independently of historic events or global social forces. We are shaped by such events and forces, just as we play a part in shaping history and society. >> If I express a love for my wife, does it demean other women??? I hope not!!! The >> Torstein argument >> is the same argument that I have heard time without number, coming from White people of >> various >> backgrounds (most NOT well intentioned) and a number of "liberal" Black folks, as to >> why there >> should be, for instance, Black Studies or Black History? The answer to that question is, >> all >> things being equal, that there should not be such programs. However, as we all know, All >> Things >> Are Not Equal! These programs, as well as the expression of Black pride are the historic >> result of >> the exclusion of the voices of Black people and their experiences in the larger arena. >> Now, when >> Black people get a voice, you try to silence that voice, on the alleged basis of being >> offensive to >> some people? >> M W Payne > So the important thing here is to voice out color segregation but the other way? > Should not the voice of opressed people fighting against colordiffences, be to > fight against evaluating people based on color??! Mr. Torstein, God created color differences, not me. I have no problem with the differences, as there is nothing wrong with the varieties of human existence. Human beings however recognize and acknowledge those differences (again, nothing wrong here), and may act upon those differences (there is a possibility of foul play). My point is, that whereas you are prepared to deny the obvious, I am NOT, because it is not inherently value laden. Different doesn't necessarily mean better; it doesn't necessarily mean worse. It simply means DIFFERENT. To express what is visibly apparent is not the same thing as segregation. You should try to recognize the difference. I am not sure if you are ashamed of your color, but my thought is not to ignore it, but to acknowledge it and move on. The history of my color travels with me, and speaks volumes of history, both aloud and in whispers. It also speaks to the treatment I will receive in many situations around the world. You and I walking the same path and going into the same facilities, will receive different treatment, not because of our different characters, or by anything that is intrinsically good or evil about any one of us, but rather because of the physical appearance. I cannot bury my head in the sand and act as if, color doesn't matter. My denial can cost me my dignity or my life; and has done so for my people in the past, in the present, and unfortunately, most probably in the future. Right here in the good ol' US of A, a number of Black people (regardless of nationality, character, educational background, or any of the host of characteristics you would insist that we examine first) have lost their lives, simply because of their skin color. I have personally experienced dogs that are trained to bark at and attack Black people exclusively!!! So, please don't lecture me, or attempt to tell me how to approach life. You are far too young and inexperienced to do that. >Best Regards, > Torstein > The Gambia > BTW: if you look to the left on your keyboard, > there is a "caps lock" function there that you > might have overlooked. Young man, other than this short remark, I will not respond to the above trifling comment. I have no desire to stoop to that level, and I suggest we move to a higher plane of discussion/disagreement. Thank you, God bless and may you all have a good day! M W Payne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:34:05 -0500 (EST) From: KTouray@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: suggestion Message-ID: <971120003404_-53874598@mrin39> The past few months have been very rough on the Gambians in the U.S.A .from immigration problems to death, some of us have been going through a rough time: it is my understanding that the immigration has raided some restaurants and unfortunately some of the people detained are our own blood. I have also realised that 4 gambians have passed away and family members partly depended on us tto contribute some money to send the deceased home for proper burial. Having thinking about all this, it occurred me that with the joint effort of everyone in this country, we can easily send deceased home. i think if we set up a foundation by making monthly or yearly contribution and holding at least quarterly meetings we will be well informed of what is happening to all of us and therefore help out with things that need to be taken care of.I know that it is not as easy as it seems, but a little time from everyone can make it happen. This is just a suggestion and i will be very happy to hear your points of view as we all know that two minds are better than one.I am willing to work with anybody on this and hoping that we will all participate in it. We all know that as inevitable as death is we will not want a close friend to be kept in the morgue waiting for money to be sent home for burial let alone ourselves or a family member.So please let us work together since this is something beyond our control. This does not have to be for only people in MD, anyone is welcome to be part of it. After all we can always transfer funds from one bank to another and therefore state to another. I am expecting replies from all and feel free to call me on (301)565-9427 if you would rather talk about it. thank you all, Fatou Sanyang. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:47:41 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: color trouble.. Message-ID: <19971120054741.10120.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain M W Payne, Thank you very much for the well thought-out, well illustrated response to Torstein. The time and effort you put into it was certainly well spent. It was quite refreshing to read...I owe you one!!! As our mutual brother would say, "keep up the good work down there". God bless and have a good day too! Jainaba. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 02:41:26 -0500 (EST) From: MJawara@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re:tragic death - Cash Reward Message-ID: <971120024125_595386827@mrin38> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.18494.mrin38.880011685" --PART.BOUNDARY.0.18494.mrin38.880011685 Content-ID: <0_18494_880011685@mrin38.1707> Content-type: text/plain In a message dated 97-11-18 23:10:04 EST, you wrote: << We were told one Gambian group gave one thousand dollars today. May allah bless them and all who helped out. >> Monday Nov.17, The Gambian Support Group made a cash donation of $ 1000.00 to the family of the deceased, Ms.Aji Sowe.A delegation of 5 members led by the Chairman of the Group, Mr. Dembo Drammeh made the donation on behalf of the organization.At the emergency meeting held on sunday Nov. 16, it was also decided to offer a cash reward of $ 1000.00 ( $ 500.00 from the organizaton and $ 500.00 total amount pledged by individual members ) to anyone with information on the suspect. He's a fugitive and may or may not be in the U.S.If you've any information, please call the Montgomery County Police, MD or your local law enforcement agency.If your info. leads to the arrest and conviction of the suspect, you'll receive the cash reward. Herewith attached is a picture of the suspect.Hopefully, everyone will be able to download the pic. without any problem. In the wake of two unfortunate and high profile domestic violence cases, The Gambian Support Group will be hosting a family oriented town - meeting to discuss marital and other social issues.Hopefully, we wouldn't look too far for speakers and counselors.There're Gambians with reputable character and hold responsible positions...Medical Doctors, Professors, Senior Economists at the World Bank and the I.M.F., Religious leaders, business men / women ... ..Also to be included to the list of speakers is a representative of the Montgomery County Police , Domestic Violence Unit. To those Gambians in the Washington Metropolitan Area, stay tuned... Musa K. Jawara. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:54:00 +0100 From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no To: Gambia-L@u.washington.edu Subject: Help! Message-ID: <3473efef.narud@relay.nsw.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt Can the list managers be so kind as to remove temporarily the = subscription of Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no. Note! I presently receivie two copies of each posting to Gambia-L as all mail = = to the above address is auto-forwarded to my current address at = Amadou.Kabir:njie@nsw.no.(Please do not remove this one!!!; just the = above) Before I return to that address sometime in January I'll request a = resubscription. Thanks. PS Modou Camara, did you read the mails I posted to you. I didn't realize = you were in The Gambia when sent them. Hoping to hear from you when you = = are less busy. Maybe you can carry out the above request personally. A. Kabir Njie. = --------------------------------------------------------------------- amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no Narud Stokke Wiig AS R=E5dhusgt. 27 N-0158 OSLO NORWAY Tel: +47 22 33 06 70 Fax: +47 22 41 45 01 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:52:44 GMT+1 From: "Heidi Skramstad" <heidis@amadeus.cmi.no> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: 1993 Census Message-ID: <D51AF353BDF@amadeus.cmi.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello Moe, > > Does anyone have (or know where I could get) the latest Census report for > > the Gambia. Any year after 1990 would be fine. I need ASAP. You can get them at Central Statistics Department, Ministry of Finance and Economic Affairs, Buckle Street. The 1993 Census is printed in several smaller reports and they sell them at 30 D + postage. I have some of them, but since I don't know what ASAP is, I don't know if it is included. Regards Heidi Skramstad ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:05:49 +0300 From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: color trouble.. Message-ID: <01bcf5a4$42ace500$aa2385c2@kolls567> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mr.Payne! That was great analysis! I have learnt a lot; so thank you and keep up the good work down there! Regards Bassss! -----Original Message----- From: M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Date: 20/��/1418 01:11 � Subject: Re: color trouble.. Good day all, When the Brown Bomber, Joe Louis, defeated Max Schmeling, he not only defeated another boxer, but he kicked the butt of a racist theory of White supremacy. The reverse has never been true, because Blacks have never been in similar positions of power on a global basis. You see Mr. Torstein, the idea of racism revolves around the issue of power and how that power influences collective behavior. Blacks have never been in such positions of power to influence collective behavior, while the recognition you receive as "toubab" has nothing to do with either power or behavior. Again, thank you for conveniently missing the point. In the Olympics, people compete on the basis of skill, training, and NATIONALITY. Nationality is a category which, can be and is framed to be inclusive of some, but excludes others. Is this a problem for you? Probably not if I remember some of your earlier posts correctly. You don't mind categorization on any other level than color. People cheer for national pride in the Olympics. Team members cheer on fellow team members, not because of the INTRINSIC qualities each individual team member has, but because they are TEAM MEMBERS! Well, for me one team I am proud to belong to is the team, which wears the Black suits all day long, even if there are some disgruntled team members who do not consider themselves to be part of the team. That goes with the territory. And by the way, the paragraph you are referencing looks at the sources of pride within the Olympics, not the idea of the bases of competition. >> Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always felt threatened >> when Black >> people express pride in themselves. >I feel treathened by violent people, ignorant people, people with guns, fanatic people >and people without humor, but you can beat your chest as much as you like for me, >I will evaluate you by the things you do and not your "COLOR". And that is fine. I will recognize you by whatever distinguishing characteristic you possess, not by ignoring them. You keep confusing recognition, with evaluation, which are not the same. Admittedly, one could simultaneously recognize and evaluate any phenomenon one chooses, however, this is not necessarily the case. In an earlier post I seem to recall (and I am sure that you will correct me if I am wrong) that you mentioned your resentment to people or children, specifically (I forget which one, and have deleted that post) who see you and refer to you as "Toubab" This is the point of recognition for the people who greet you as so. There is no evaluation of your character on the basis of this designation. After all, neither your name nor your nationality are printed on your forehead for all to see and read, so no one can refer to you in that manner, if they first meet you or develop nothing more than a passing acquaintance with you. It is ridiculous for me to reference "that fruit" when I want to refer to an orange in a bowl of apples. The orange in the midst of apples serves as its own reference! Your whiteness in a land of Black people is a distinguishing characteristic. No rocket scientist needed here. Like it or not, that is the reality. It is not a comment on your character or personality, it is a comment on your appearance. Period. >> For Black people to express this type of pride is not demeaning to others, as both of you >> would >> suggest, but rather, is the result of numerous historical processes. >I am humble and sometimes depressed in the face of history, but for myself I make my >own >reputation, and will speak up if people use my skincolor to define me. That, again, is a problem with which you will have to live. It is either silly or extremely naive to think that we arrive and act in the world independently of historic events or global social forces. We are shaped by such events and forces, just as we play a part in shaping history and society. Mr. Torstein, God created color differences, not me. I have no problem with the differences, as there is nothing wrong with the varieties of human existence. Human beings however recognize and acknowledge those differences (again, nothing wrong here), and may act upon those differences (there is a possibility of foul play). My point is, that whereas you are prepared to deny the obvious, I am NOT, because it is not inherently value laden. Different doesn't necessarily mean better; it doesn't necessarily mean worse. It simply means DIFFERENT. To express what is visibly apparent is not the same thing as segregation. You should try to recognize the difference. I am not sure if you are ashamed of your color, but my thought is not to ignore it, but to acknowledge it and move on. The history of my color travels with me, and speaks volumes of history, both aloud and in whispers. It also speaks to the treatment I will receive in many situations around the world. You and I walking the same path and going into the same facilities, will receive different treatment, not because of our different characters, or by anything that is intrinsically good or evil about any one of us, but rather because of the physical appearance. I cannot bury my head in the sand and act as if, color doesn't matter. My denial can cost me my dignity or my life; and has done so for my people in the past, in the present, and unfortunately, most probably in the future. Right here in the good ol' US of A, a number of Black people (regardless of nationality, character, educational background, or any of the host of characteristics you would insist that we examine first) have lost their lives, simply because of their skin color. I have personally experienced dogs that are trained to bark at and attack Black people exclusively!!! So, please don't lecture me, or attempt to tell me how to approach life. You are far too young and inexperienced to do that. Thank you, God bless and may you all have a good day! M W Payne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:33:26 +0000 From: S Njie <S.Njie@commonwealth.int> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Subscription of New Member Message-ID: <9E03E33001D23A00@commonwealth.int> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear List Manager, Could you please add Kebba B. J arju on the list. His address is : africa re@compuserve.com Thanks, S.G. N'jie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 06:13:03 -0600 From: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: color trouble.. Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971120055218.39cf957a@etbu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mr Payne, My hat off to you. Facts, rather than innuendoes should be the basis for our debates. While i don't agree with everything you said, i salute with vehement excitement your oratory, which at the very least was diligent, yet concise to the point of a vertex. The historical and other social facts you cited are beyond reproach. Excellent piece!!!!! Mr Torstein, i personally think you are a well-intentioned person and i agree that "color" should not be the basis with which to judge other people, but like Mr Payne said, that is to deny the obvious. History is what shapes this world. We either play the cards we are dealt by nature or risk being traitors to our very existence. To both of you, keep the high spirits alive. Once again Mr Payne, congratulations on a magnificently crafted article. I just couldn't shut up on this one. It was too good to go by unnoticed. Peace! It's Tamsir. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 03:57:12 PST From: "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu, njies@commonwealth.int Subject: Re: Subscription of New Member Message-ID: <19971120115712.8367.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain > >Dear List Manager, > >Could you please add Kebba B. J arju on the list. > >His address is : > >africa re@compuserve.com > >Thanks, > >S.G. N'jie > Mr.Njie, The email address seems to be incorrect because there should not be a space in the address. Please check with him or ask him to send a subscription request to: 1. listproc@u.washington.edu 2.In the message area, he should write: subscribe Gambia-L Kebba B.J Jarju Note: The subject should be blank regards Momodou ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:03:48 -0500 From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Message-ID: <19971120.080350.3382.0.nahak@juno.com> Listmanager, please unsubscribe Michael Gomez. at this e-mail address: mbg@guinness.som.cwru.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:46:47 -0000 From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: color trouble.. Message-ID: <B0000017781@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm> via Commit Dear Mr Payne & fellow G-llers, I am just writing a quick commendation on a superb, genuine and heartfelt piece. Sir, I think you have said it all, our so-called black nationalism is not against other folks, it is as you rightly said, us sharing our common experience mostly derived from our common heritage, the melanin in our skin. Again thanks for a superb piece, it was good for all of us and hopefully gives the perspective in which our struggle should be viewed. Musa ----------ps Sir in wollof, we say there are two things about a human being, "hel" and " ham-ham" that is literally..good sense or sensible and knowledge.. now some people have good sense or are sensible,"( in wollof "am hel") others have knowledge mostly learnt through schooling, training or experience, (am ham-ham) but some are endowed by The Almighty with Sense & Knowledge ( AM Hel ack HamHam) and in my humble opinion, you Sir, have been endowed with hel and hamham ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 05:25:14 PST From: "Gassamaba omar" <kassama@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New Member Message-ID: <19971120132515.12251.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Dear list managers, could anyone add brother Sarjo Marenah to the list please<smarenah@hotmail.com> Alabaraka WAS SALAAM gassamaba ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:31:11 -0800 From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com Subject: Re: suggestion Message-ID: <347465CF.3CE2@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit KTouray@aol.com wrote: > > The past few months have been very rough on the Gambians in the U.S.A .from > immigration problems to death, some of us have been going through a rough > time: it is my understanding that the immigration has raided some restaurants > and unfortunately some of the people detained are our own blood. I have also > realised that 4 gambians have passed away and family members partly depended > on us tto contribute some money to send the deceased home for proper burial. > Having thinking about all this, it occurred me that with the joint effort of > everyone in this country, we can easily send deceased home. i think if we set > up a foundation by making monthly or yearly contribution and holding at least > quarterly meetings we will be well informed of what is happening to all of us > and therefore help out with things that need to be taken care of.I know that > it is not as easy as it seems, but a little time from everyone can make it > happen. > This is just a suggestion and i will be very happy to hear your points of > view as we all know that two minds are better than one.I am willing to work > with anybody on this and hoping that we will all participate in it. > We all know that as inevitable as death is we will not want a close friend to > be kept in the morgue waiting for money to be sent home for burial let alone > ourselves or a family member.So please let us work together since this is > something beyond our control. > This does not have to be for only people in MD, anyone is welcome to be part > of it. After all we can always transfer funds from one bank to another and > therefore state to another. > I am expecting replies from all and feel free to call me on (301)565-9427 if > you would rather talk about it. > thank you all, Fatou Sanyang.Fatou This is an excellent idea that I have been tryibg to push especially for the cases of death for over twenty (yes -twenty) years in the DC area. We have had cases in the early seventies occationally but it seems now to be on a more frequent basis. I have brought up the idea of just death insurance to cover the funeral expenses alone. Ironically whenot comes to weddings or parties we in the Gambian community do not have difficulty to raise funds but in cases of death or immigration we all suddenly do not have money. Why? Ousainu Mbenger and a few others have requested that we have a meeting of this nature but it never materializes . Maybe this time with the younger generation's help it may happen. Peace Habib ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:39:50 -0800 From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com Subject: Re: tragic death - Cash Reward Message-ID: <347467D6.6D9A@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MJawara@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-11-18 23:10:04 EST, you wrote: > > << We were told one Gambian group gave one thousand dollars today. May allah > bless them and all who helped out. >> > > Monday Nov.17, The Gambian Support Group made a cash donation of $ 1000.00 to > the family of the deceased, Ms.Aji Sowe.A delegation of 5 members led by the > Chairman of the Group, Mr. Dembo Drammeh made the donation on behalf of the > organization.At the emergency meeting held on sunday Nov. 16, it was also > decided to offer a cash reward of $ 1000.00 ( $ 500.00 from the organizaton > and $ 500.00 total amount pledged by individual members ) to anyone with > information on the suspect. He's a fugitive and may or may not be in the > U.S.If you've any information, please call the Montgomery County Police, MD > or your local law enforcement agency.If your info. leads to the arrest and > conviction of the suspect, you'll receive the cash reward. > Herewith attached is a picture of the suspect.Hopefully, everyone will be > able to download the pic. without any problem. > > In the wake of two unfortunate and high profile domestic violence cases, The > Gambian Support Group will be hosting a family oriented town - meeting to > discuss marital and other social issues.Hopefully, we wouldn't look too far > for speakers and counselors.There're Gambians with reputable character and > hold responsible positions...Medical Doctors, Professors, Senior Economists > at the World Bank and the I.M.F., Religious leaders, business men / women ... > .Also to be included to the list of speakers is a representative of the > Montgomery County Police , Domestic Violence Unit. > To those Gambians in the Washington Metropolitan Area, stay tuned... > > Musa K. Jawara. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------Thanks for your help and please let me know where and when so I can pass the word around to the Gambia Muslim Association. Habib Diab Ghanim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:33:45 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: 1993 Census Message-ID: <9711201533.AA25218@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Hello Moe, > > > > Does anyone have (or know where I could get) the latest Census report for > > > the Gambia. Any year after 1990 would be fine. I need ASAP. > You can get them at Central Statistics Department, Ministry of Finance and Economic > Affairs, Buckle Street. The 1993 Census is printed in several smaller > reports and they sell them at 30 D + postage. I have some of them, > but since I don't know what ASAP is, I don't know if it is included. > > Regards > Heidi Skramstad Thank you for the information. I have contacted a friend in the Gambia who will get it from the ministry and mail it to me. I was hoping that someone in the US might have copies they can fax to me since I need it sooner. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I just meant to say AS SOON AS POSSIBLE (ASAP). If you can help further, please let me know via private mail. Regards, Moe S. Jallow =========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:46:04 -0500 (EST) From: fatima phall <fphall1@gl.umbc.edu> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: lets' do it Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.971120113138.17524A-100000@umbc8.umbc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Gambia-Lers, I totally agree with Fatou Sanyang's suggestion. We should set up a foundation" asap" for the Gambian people. If we think about the amount money generated from parties like, ALD,New year's e.t.c., we could definitely do it.Think about this for a moment please, if we don't attend any of the above parties unless the money generated is going towards our goal, we'll be leading in the right direction. Remember these tragedies could happen to anyone's family when you least expect it. Let's do something fast and soon. Anybody interested should please let us know. Thanks, Fatima. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:16:31 -0800 From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com Subject: Re: lets' do it Message-ID: <34749A9F.2843@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fatima phall wrote: > > Hi Gambia-Lers, > > I totally agree with Fatou Sanyang's suggestion. We should set up a > foundation" asap" for the Gambian people. If we think about the amount > money generated from parties like, ALD,New year's e.t.c., we could > definitely do it.Think about this for a moment please, if we don't attend > any of the above parties unless the money generated is going towards > our goal, we'll be leading in the right direction. Remember these > tragedies could happen to anyone's family when you least expect it. Let's do something > fast and soon. Anybody interested should please let us know. > Thanks, > Fatima.Yes Fatima," Lets do it "( I think that seems to be a good theme ) I mean a mission statement for this purpose. No offense but when we have parties thousands of dollars are spent lavishly and many people show in short notice. Maybe a bi annual special joint fundraising effort by the Gambia Muslim Assn and the Gambia Support group( & Gambia ADL group -etc) at an Idependent location is the answer. Habib Thanks for your personal e mail . I deleted by mistake. i will reply you seperately later. Do you hear from Mam Sait Jagne??? Habib ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:51:48 -0500 (EST) From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971120134842.17506A-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII If any one (from the U.S) would be interested in teaching physics,chemistry, biology or math in The Gambia during spring 1998 please contact me at my private mail for details. Thanks .........Musa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:05:15 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: lets' do it Message-ID: <9711201905.AA57644@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Let's do it! That would be wonderful. Please, Let me in on it. Regards, Moe S. Jallow > > Fatima.Yes Fatima," Lets do it "( I think that seems to be a good theme ) I mean > a mission statement for this purpose. > Habib ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:31:30 -0500 (EST) From: "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: lets' do it Message-ID: <199711202031.PAA04935@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fatima: I think raising funds for these purposes is an excellent idea. Realistically, parties are a good way to raise funds. Why not work with all these gambian groups -- ALD, 4th of July, Labor Day, and the Muslim Association, among others to donate a percentage of their profits to the foundation. Any Gambian group in the US who plans social events on a regular basis should be able to donate some of those profits. It would be for a good cause, and gambians and their friends all over the country would be contributing something. Of course, this should not be limited to the US alone. Peace, N'Deye Marie At 12:16 PM 11/20/97 -0800, you wrote: >fatima phall wrote: >> >> Hi Gambia-Lers, >> >> I totally agree with Fatou Sanyang's suggestion. We should set up a >> foundation" asap" for the Gambian people. If we think about the amount >> money generated from parties like, ALD,New year's e.t.c., we could >> definitely do it.Think about this for a moment please, if we don't attend >> any of the above parties unless the money generated is going towards >> our goal, we'll be leading in the right direction. Remember these >> tragedies could happen to anyone's family when you least expect it. Let's do something >> fast and soon. Anybody interested should please let us know. >> Thanks, >> Fatima.Yes Fatima," Lets do it "( I think that seems to be a good theme ) I mean >a mission statement for this purpose. >No offense but when we have parties thousands of dollars are spent >lavishly and many people show in short notice. Maybe a bi annual special >joint fundraising effort by the Gambia Muslim Assn and the Gambia Support >group( & Gambia ADL group -etc) at an Idependent location is the answer. >Habib >Thanks for your personal e mail . I deleted by mistake. i will reply you >seperately later. Do you hear from Mam Sait Jagne??? >Habib > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:23:14 PST From: "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: color trouble.. Message-ID: <19971120212314.12370.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain >Good day all, >Sorry for the delay in answering Mr. Torstein's query, and addressing the= > other issues raised but, work >has my hands tied, both day and night and I have just returned to my emai= >l, to find too many issues to >respond to. I will try to respond to Mr. Torstein first. >Mr. Torstein you wrote: > > >Could you please specify for an ignorant "toubab" like me > >where I have tainted my views with racism?! > >In order to learn and change you have to listen to advices from different > >sources, so I would much apreciate it if you could enlighten > >me on this. > >There is one string of comments which amplify your position on this issue= ........................... THANK YOU MR PAYNE........ you have given me more and more reason to believe that thare are stiil people on this list who are able to argue intellectually on issues and not get personal. to me, you carried accross your points much better than anyone could have done when you put aside your emotions and used your intellect. if this is not good enough to persuade mr Torstein that the word "toubab" has no inherent racial hatred or meaning in it, then i guess he is gonna be uncomfortable for a long time living in the gambia. i would like to challenge mr Torstein to ask the children or anybody in the gambia who should call him a toubab, what racism is, or what they mean by toubab. i suggest that you interact more with the gambians at home, sit and drink attaya with the boys, go to our "ngentehs" and check out the "farooto taa laalu", and you may begin to see where we are coming from. it is right there under your nose. If you need any more clarification, you can consult with heidi.....even if she is not in the gambia now, she knows what a "kankurang jafoo", "nyaakaato", and "solimaa" is. don't forget to SMILLLLEEEE!!!!! ******AND i use the caps lock at my discretion********* this is NNNJJJJAAAAGGGAA.. THE jagnen in kentucky. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:23:15 -0500 (EST) From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: lets' do it Message-ID: <199711202123.QAA03945@oak.mtu.edu> Content-Type: text I think this is an idea whichlong overdue. However, it will be important that we consider all options before we get into it. Earlier on Dr Kamara in Seatle forwarded something on life insurance .. I will suggest that a team be set up to review the various suggestions and come up with reccommendations. Malanding Jaiteh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:05:33 -0500 (EST) From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh) Subject: Education Committee Progress report Message-ID: <199711202205.RAA03956@oak.mtu.edu> Content-Type: text On behalf of members of the education support plan draft committee, I would like to welcome new members and send condolences to families of the two young Gambians we lost during the past week. For the benefit of our newest members, some months ago a few members volunteered to work on a proposal on aiding education in the Gambia(Musa Sowe's now famous Food for thought message). Another notable member Andrea Klumpp conducted a survey regarding what kind of aid if any members would like to give. From the results of that survey, it was concluded that members would want to see an autonomous organization, charged with the task of collecting contributions and helping out institutions and individuals in education in the Gambia. Based on the responses a committee (nearly 20 members) was set up to develop a working document. Out of the larger committee a draft team of 5 (later 4) was formed and a draft was devloped. This draft had been submitted to the larger committee for review. It is expected that the review will be completeed by November 29 and a final document be presented to Gambia-L by Dec 1. The main points in the document are: An organization be established by the name Gambia Education Support Organization with an executive committee to oversee its activities. The activities are: Institutional support -support library and laboratory facilities(including computers) -classroom support(textbooks and other classroom materials at junior and primary Schools. Individual Support -individual scholarship and mentorship program -Education resource home page Details will be forwarded as soon as the review is completed. Malanding Jaiteh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:31:12 -0800 (PST) From: "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Subscription of New Member Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96a.971120162256.37760A-100000@dante22.u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII TO THE LIST MANAGERS: Could you please add Mr. Jassey to the list. In fact, I did make a request to this effect but he is still not added. I guess his e-mail address that I sent was not right. NAME E-MAIL ADDRESS Joseph Jassey jjassey@MCIONE Thanx again, Dawda Singahteh. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 20:49:31 -0800 From: "Alieu Jobe" <Tokunor@worldnet.att.net> To: <Gambia-L@u.washington.edu> Subject: Stop Subscription Message-ID: <19971121014523.AAA18416@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Please remove my name from your subcribers list Gambia-L . Stop sending messages with immediate effect. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:53:26 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Subscription of New Member Message-ID: <19971121015326.19738.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mr. Singahteh, The e-mail address you have written below doesn't seem right since it doesn't have an extension. Perhaps, it should have a .com, .net or .whatever as the extension. You may wanna re-check with Mr Jarsey. My thoughts... Jainaba. ****************************************************************** > TO THE LIST MANAGERS: >Could you please add Mr. Jassey to the list. In fact, I did make a >request to this effect but he is still not added. I guess his e-mail >address that I sent was not right. > >NAME E-MAIL ADDRESS >Joseph Jassey jjassey@MCIONE > >Thanx again, Dawda Singahteh. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:27:57 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!! Message-ID: <19971121032758.10337.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Gambia-lers, My take as per the thread: When intellectuals argue.... It is necessary to, as much as possible, put an idea in the right context so as to elicit some constructive intellectual input from others, be it by way of reviews or criticism. However, a FEW list members have consistently demonstrated their inability, either deliberate or otherwise, to grasp even the simplest ideas. This is not to ridicule them, but these intellectually challenged people just lack the ability to read and comprehend even the simplest sentence. In their response to a wide variety of postings, one is left wondering whether they read the posting to which they were responding or whether they are just plain ignorant. Because not much is required to be on the list, it is not surprising that people of different intellect and common sense find themselves in the same newsgroup. I am not suggesting a rule or gatekeeper to weed out the morons or borderline *s, but the fact is that some people need to be spoon fed, literarily. They provide no humor, and are nothing but poster "boys" for ignorance. It is good that they are a TINY MINORITY, otherwise this forum will be nothing but A CONFEDRACY OF DUNCES where ignorance is embraced and common sense ridiculed. There are also those who combine ignorance, stupidity, and humor. Their response sometimes leaves one wondering how they manage to go to work(school) and find their way home everyday. Believe it or not, I can stand these people, because they kind of provide comic relief on the list. It is atimes refreshing to read their pepper-soup analysis....Come on, who doesn't need a laugh after a long days work. Because of the above observation about the quality of debate since I joined the list, and also because of some postings in the archieves from the same bunch of people, I will henceforth append a disclaimer to all my postings to the list. I don't claim to have monoply of wisdom, nor do I wish to limit the scope of debate or criticism of my posting(s) by appending disclaimers. All, I ask is that people take the time to read and digest an idea before rushing to the key board. Most importantly, people should aim at focusing on the issue at hand, rather than an unrelated issue (such as the confrontation I've had with some folks in the past). Hope that I have finally exhaled!! Later.... Jainaba. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:33:42 -0500 (EST) From: MJagana@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Another act of terror Message-ID: <971120223341_1470153098@mrin42.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-18 23:59:42 EST, you write: << That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We should careful in how we present our views. >> OUSMAN, I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT THE DIFFENCE HERE BETWEEN BEEN A MUSLIM, AND BEEN AN ARAB. AFTER ALL THE KILLERS ARE ARABS WHICH THERE IS NO DENIAL TO THAT FACT. HOWEVER THE MEDIA ( IN THE USA) DOES NOT DISTINGUISH THESE ARABS, RATHER THEY CLASSIFIED THEM AS MUSLIM EXTEREMISTS WHICH I FEEL IS WRONG. IF YOU THING MY COMMENT IS GETTING CLOSE TO A RACIST COMMENT, WELL THAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION AND I RESPECT YOUR SENSE OF INTERPRETATION. HOWEVER I STAND BY MY CLASSIFICATION OF THSES MURDERS AS ARABS. MOMODOU JAGANA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:38:55 -0500 (EST) From: MJagana@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Another act of terror Message-ID: <971120223854_461293580@mrin54.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-19 09:18:16 EST, you write: << good muslim does not go about killing." (period) ?!? >> WELL I SUPPOSE FEW YOUR OWN LIFE IS UNDER DANGER YOU ARE ALLOWED TO PROTECT YOURSELF, MOMODOU J ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 00:08:50 -0500 (EST) From: KTouray@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: suggestion Message-ID: <971121000850_-624265536@mrin58.mail.aol.com> I am very glad that some of you agreed to my idea. I have also sent letters to various people whose adresses i had by calling them eventhough some are very reluctant to give their adresses. I tried to explain to them the reason behind it but they just couldn't buy it. I think i would end up hand delivering them instead. As we all know, everyone will not agree to this idea but all we need is something to start with. With or without everybody we can still do it . We cannot just give up because most people choose not to participate. Some people don't believe in starting anything because of risks that might involve but everything in live is risky in one way or another. Right now i am waiting for a few days to know what other people think about it and then we will be able to take it from there. As soon as i get some answers i will let you know. Thanks again, Fatou sanyang. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:48:47 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Another act of terror Message-ID: <19971121054848.20375.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mr. Jagana, I have three questions for you....you may wanna respond to them or not at all. BTW, I am not trying to provoke you...some people think I am notorious in that regard. I'll not try to ridicule you either should you respond. It will help me a lot in contributing to this thread if you answer the questions below: 1. Do you believe that all arabs are muslim?? 2. Do you believe that all Egyptians are arabs?? 3. What is/are the reason(s) behind such acts af terror?? Cheers, Jainaba. ***************************************************************** ><< That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I > believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not > saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We > should careful in how we present our views. >> > > >OUSMAN, > >I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT THE DIFFENCE HERE BETWEEN BEEN A MUSLIM, AND BEEN AN >ARAB. AFTER ALL THE KILLERS ARE ARABS WHICH THERE IS NO DENIAL TO THAT FACT. > >HOWEVER THE MEDIA ( IN THE USA) DOES NOT DISTINGUISH THESE ARABS, RATHER THEY >CLASSIFIED THEM AS MUSLIM EXTEREMISTS WHICH I FEEL IS WRONG. > >IF YOU THING MY COMMENT IS GETTING CLOSE TO A RACIST COMMENT, WELL THAT IS >YOUR INTERPRETATION AND I RESPECT YOUR SENSE OF INTERPRETATION. > >HOWEVER I STAND BY MY CLASSIFICATION OF THSES MURDERS AS ARABS. > > >MOMODOU JAGANA > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:14:00 +0100 From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no To: Gambia-L@u.washington.edu Subject: RE : COLOUR TROUBLE Message-ID: <3475434a.narud@relay.nsw.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt Mr.Payne! How on earth could you do it? I mean remain patient and quiet in the face of all the nonsense that has = = been paraded here as debate on the very important question of RACE? Your last contribution was long overdue! If you ever do that again = (remain quiet for so long on such important issues) I shall only forgive = = you in the hereafter! You reminded me of Fanon!!! This bantaba needs a doyen like you. Maybe we all learnt all the more = because you waited for this timely and opportune moment to present this = = analysis of such intellectual profundity supported by much irrefutable = proof. In another posting earlier today somebody, was it Pa Musa Jallow?, said = = he owes you one; I join him in meaning so. A. Kabir Njie. --------------------------------------------------------------------- amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no Narud Stokke Wiig AS R=E5dhusgt. 27 N-0158 OSLO NORWAY Tel: +47 22 33 06 70 Fax: +47 22 41 45 01 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:31:00 +0100 From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: Another act of terror Message-ID: <34754719.narud@relay.nsw.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt Hey Jai, Very relevant and pertinent questions! Let's address the causes and not = = the symptoms!!! To borrow Bass's favourite : Keep up the good work down there! A. Kabir Njie ---------- From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sent: 20. november 1997 9:48 To: ak; gambia-l; jai_diallo Subject: Re: Another act of terror Mr. Jagana, I have three questions for you....you may wanna respond to them or not at all. BTW, I am not trying to provoke you...some people think I am notorious in that regard. I'll not try to ridicule you either should you respond. It will help me a lot in contributing to this thread if you answer the questions below: 1. Do you believe that all arabs are muslim?? 2. Do you believe that all Egyptians are arabs?? 3. What is/are the reason(s) behind such acts af terror?? Cheers, Jainaba. ***************************************************************** ><< That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I > believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not > saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We > should careful in how we present our views. >> > > >OUSMAN, > >I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT THE DIFFENCE HERE BETWEEN BEEN A MUSLIM, AND BEEN AN >ARAB. AFTER ALL THE KILLERS ARE ARABS WHICH THERE IS NO DENIAL TO THAT FACT. > >HOWEVER THE MEDIA ( IN THE USA) DOES NOT DISTINGUISH THESE ARABS, RATHER THEY >CLASSIFIED THEM AS MUSLIM EXTEREMISTS WHICH I FEEL IS WRONG. > >IF YOU THING MY COMMENT IS GETTING CLOSE TO A RACIST COMMENT, WELL THAT IS >YOUR INTERPRETATION AND I RESPECT YOUR SENSE OF INTERPRETATION. > >HOWEVER I STAND BY MY CLASSIFICATION OF THSES MURDERS AS ARABS. > > >MOMODOU JAGANA > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no Narud Stokke Wiig AS R=E5dhusgt. 27 N-0158 OSLO NORWAY Tel: +47 22 33 06 70 Fax: +47 22 41 45 01 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 01:07:02 -0800 (PST) From: "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Subscription of New Member Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96a.971121004803.49744A-100000@dante26.u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jainaba, thanks a lot. In fact, I did realize my mistake after I received my own message back (being a list member). The extension is ..com. AGAIN TO THE LIST MANAGERS: I would like you to add Mr. Jassey to the list. Address is given below. NAME E-MAIL ADDRESS Joseph Jassey jjassey@MCIONE.com Thanx again, Dawda Singahteh. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:45:05 -0500 From: Laura Munzel <lem10@columbia.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Color Debate Message-ID: <34759E71.880993C@columbia.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------05AE07E0AB46716930C08F5C" --------------05AE07E0AB46716930C08F5C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr. Payne, You said: ....the idea of racism revolves around the issue of power and how that power influences collective behavior. Blacks have never been in such positions of power to influence collective behavior... You say that black people can't be racist because they can't influence collective behavior, and white people can be racist because they can affect collective behavior. What's ironic is that although you base your view on historical and political context, there is still a determinism expressed based solely on race. Isn't it very possible that a wealthy black individual would have more influence on collective behavior than poor white trash? Economic status makes a difference, I think - not just race. You might respond that the example given of a black man/woman who is wealthy, or a black man/woman who is in a position of power is the exception rather than the rule. You mention that: ...Blacks have never been in similar positions of power on a global basis. Is there such a thing of being in power on a global basis? I would say there are more pockets of power which play out differently across different contexts of economic status, social status, political status. In saying the above, there is no arguing the fact that we are all carrying around the histories of our races. We are treated differentially based on our color. People die because of their color. The affects on peoples' lives are very real. Oh, I see, and you are saying that any sense of Black solidarity is responsible for that lack of peace? Yeah, right! This is a common ploy utilized by those who are not concerned with our best interest; "Blame the victim for being victimized." And any attempt to break out of the cycle of victimization, meets with the criticism of those who benefit from our subordinate position. Black solidarity is a somewhat powerful political vehicle. But is race the only factor which makes one group subordinate to another? As indicated earlier, I suspect economic status is a stronger indicator of who will have power over whom. Basing a political position solely on race is limiting. First, it stems from the same ideology which got us into this mess in the first place. Second, by viewing race as the single significant factor in a political struggle, opportunities are missed for alliances based on other determiners. Laura --------------05AE07E0AB46716930C08F5C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> <P>Dear Mr. Payne, <P>You said: <BR><I>...the idea of racism revolves around the issue of power and how that power influences collective behavior.� Blacks have never been in such positions of power to influence collective behavior...</I><I></I> <P>You say that black people can't be racist because they can't influence collective behavior, and white people can be racist because they can affect collective behavior.� What's ironic is that although you base your view on historical and political context, there is still a determinism expressed based solely on race.� Isn't it very possible� that a wealthy black individual would have more influence on collective behavior than poor white trash?� Economic status makes a difference, I think - not just race. <P>You might respond that the example given of a black man/woman who is wealthy, or a black man/woman who is in a position of power is the exception rather than the rule.� You mention that:� ...<I>Blacks have never been in similar positions of power on a global basis.� </I>Is there such a thing of being in power on a global basis?� I would say there are more pockets of power which play out differently across different contexts of economic status, social status, political status. <P>In saying the above, there is no arguing the fact that we are all carrying around the histories of our races.� We are treated differentially based on our color.� People die because of their color.� The affects on peoples' lives are very real. <P><I>Oh, I see, and you are saying that any sense of Black solidarity is responsible for that lack of peace?� Yeah, right!� This is a common ploy utilized by those who are not concerned with our best interest; "Blame the victim for being victimized."� And any attempt to break out of the cycle of victimization, meets with the criticism of those who benefit from our subordinate position.��</I> Black solidarity is a somewhat powerful political vehicle.� But is race the only factor which makes one group subordinate to another?� As indicated earlier, I suspect economic status is a stronger indicator of who will have power over whom. <P>Basing a political position solely on race is limiting.� First, it stems from the same ideology which got us into this mess in the first place.� Second, by viewing race as the single significant factor in a political struggle, opportunities are missed for alliances based on other determiners. <P>Laura <BR>� <BR>� <BR>� <BR>�</HTML> --------------05AE07E0AB46716930C08F5C-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:50:18 -0500 (EST) From: Gunjur@aol.com To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Setting up foundation. Message-ID: <971121095018_1761040977@mrin40.mail.aol.com> Fatou, l think that this is a good idea. It always breaks my heart when this sort of thing occurs. In many instances, these people have not been seen by family back home for years, and laying eyes on them even while dead is somewhat of a comfort for these families, otherwise, it is hard for them to put closure to the whole thing. l know that Islam dictates burial as soon as possible, but as someone pointed out to me, if transferring the body can be done immediately, then there is no harm done. l for one know that if l were to die here, l would want to be put to rest in Gambia. l have a suggestion. l like the proposal put forth for setting up the education foundation. Can we somehow set this foundation up to cover other things(for example this idea) as well as educational needs? This will simplify things by payment of just one annual dues. We can accomodate these other needs by perhaps increasing the annual dues to say $100.00 instead of the proposed $50.00. Some feedback please. Thanks Jabou Joh. The past few months have been very rough on the Gambians in the U.S.A .from immigration problems to death, some of us have been going through a rough time: it is my understanding that the immigration has raided some restaurants and unfortunately some of the people detained are our own blood. I have also realised that 4 gambians have passed away and family members partly depended on us tto contribute some money to send the deceased home for proper burial. Having thinking about all this, it occurred me that with the joint effort of everyone in this country, we can easily send deceased home. i think if we set up a foundation by making monthly or yearly contribution and holding at least quarterly meetings we will be well informed of what is happening to all of us and therefore help out with things that need to be taken care of.I know that it is not as easy as it seems, but a little time from everyone can make it happen. This is just a suggestion and i will be very happy to hear your points of view as we all know that two minds are better than one.I am willing to work with anybody on this and hoping that we will all participate in it. We all know that as inevitable as death is we will not want a close friend to be kept in the morgue waiting for money to be sent home for burial let alone ourselves or a family member.So please let us work together since this is something beyond our control. This does not have to be for only people in MD, anyone is welcome to be part of it. After all we can always transfer funds from one bank to another and therefore state to another. I am expecting replies from all and feel free to call me on (301)565-9427 if you would rather talk about it. thank you all, Fatou Sanyang. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> Received: from relay13.mail.aol.com (relay13.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.13]) by air16.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:36:11 -0500 Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.1]) by relay13.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id AAA10915; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:35:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id VAA15163; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:34:50 -0800 Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.5]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id VAA33982 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:34:37 -0800 Received: from mrin39.mail.aol.com (mrin39.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.149]) by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id VAA21543 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:34:36 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin39.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA28394 for gambia-l@u.washington.edu; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:34:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <971120003404_-53874598@mrin39> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:34:05 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: KTouray@AOL.COM To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: suggestion X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:25:40 -0500 (EST) From: Gunjur@aol.com To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Lif insurance etc. Message-ID: <971121102539_-1005172172@mrin58.mail.aol.com> Malanding and others, Life insurance is fine, but please keep in mind that there is usually a long process to go through before the insurer pays up. Unless of course there is some kind of special arrangement with the insurer. Perhaps Dr. Kamara can give details of the coverage etc. Jabou Joh. I think this is an idea whichlong overdue. However, it will be important that we consider all options before we get into it. Earlier on Dr Kamara in Seatle forwarded something on life insurance ... I will suggest that a team be set up to review the various suggestions and come up with reccommendations. Malanding Jaiteh ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> Received: from relay06.mail.aol.com (relay06.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.6]) by air12.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:42:06 -0500 Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.1]) by relay06.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA15242; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:26:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id NAA06463; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:25:44 -0800 Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.5]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id NAA44242 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:25:31 -0800 Received: from news.mtu.edu (root@news.mtu.edu [141.219.70.11]) by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id NAA07015 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:25:25 -0800 Received: from mtu.edu (root@mtu.edu [141.219.70.1]) by news.mtu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10147 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:25:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from oak.mtu.edu (oak.ffr.mtu.edu [141.219.149.151]) by mtu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03982 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:25:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by oak.mtu.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA03945; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:23:16 -0500 Message-Id: <199711202123.QAA03945@oak.mtu.edu> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:23:15 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh) To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: lets' do it In-Reply-To: <199711202031.PAA04935@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" at Nov 20, 97 03:31:30 pm Content-Type: text X-Authentication-Warning: campus0.mtu.edu: Host oak.ffr.mtu.edu [141.219.149.151] claimed to be oak.mtu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:06:06 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Junius' words Message-ID: <9711211606.AA71516@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In his first letter to the Public Advertiser on January 21, 1789, Junius' assessment of the United Kingdom (for how government of his day was conducted) reads, "The ruin or prosperity of a state depends so much upon the administration of its government, that, to be acquainted with the merit of a ministry, we need only observe the condition of the people. If we see them obedient to the laws, prosperous in their industry, united at home, and respected abroad, we may reasonably presume that their affairs are conducted by men of experience, abilities and virtue. If, on the contrary, we see a universal spirit of distrust and disaffection, a rapid, decay of trade, dissensions in all parts of the empire, and a total loss of respect abroad in the eyes of foreign powers, we may pronounce without hesitation, that the government of the country is weak, distracted, and corrupt." Could one say that he was writing of BLACK AFRICA???? Regards, Moe S. Jallow ======================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 23:05:02 -0000 From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: color trouble.. Message-ID: <B0000017852@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Dear Mr. Payne. Thank you for answering my request and the in-depth response. Here is my answer to your reply: >>Could you please specify for an ignorant "toubab" like me >>where I have tainted my views with racism?! >>In order to learn and change you have to listen to advices from different >>sources, so I would much apreciate it if you could enlighten >>me on this. > There is one string of comments which amplify your position on this issue. In your response to my Mr. > Njie, you made some interesting statements. The exchange went as follows: >>> Till this day blacks are attacked physically all over the "Western >>> world" by dint of our colour. If the victims are lucky they come out of >>> it alive. The day you are attacked physically in The Gambia/Africa it >>> will be to be robbed because some poor criminal needs food to eat, not >>> because of racial hatred. >> I have no statistics to prove you otherwise, but the little I have heard from the US >> is that a majority of dark skinned people are actually killed/attacked by other >> dark skinned people?! Also there seems to be certain areas in the US where a person >>with a light complexion really, really should not go?! > What Mr. Njie was pointing out, was the difference in the motivations for crime. He did not say that > crime was good in one case, and bad in the other, but he was pointing out what some of us know all too > well. In short, he was stating that crimes based exclusively on race, were exclusively perpetrated by > White people against people of color. The reverse is not true. > In your response, you first reply with the non-sequitur, concerning violent crimes of "dark skinned > people" against "other dark skinned people." This is undeniable, there are far too many violent crimes > committed here, and certainly Black people assailing Black people is an issue. However, this has > nothing to do with the issue. But, if this so called "Black on Black" crime is true, can the other > side of the coin also be true? A proliferation of Black on White crime? If both are true, then one > could come to no other conclusion from your argument that "dark skinned people" are inherently violent > and evil. Is this not a racist notion? I agree with you on the first point that "black on black" crime is a little to the side of the "white vs.black" issue. As you say, violence/crime general and violence/crime colorbased is two different things. I read Mr. Njie response in the first sense, and thus responded accordingly. What I was thinking of (in the general sense) was that people are people (good and bad) regardless of color. I do not fully comprehend how you can conclude that my arguments suggest a racist notion. Here I think you are sliding a little. "Black on black" crime is happening, "White on black" crime is happening, and I suggest that perhaps "black on white" crime is emerging a few places. Just because I am writing that there is crimes happening between "black and black" etc., does not imply that ALL "Black" (or ALL "white" for that matter) are "inherently violent and evil" (your quote). It simply means that humans are capable of anything, bad and good, "black&white". (Just trying to shorten the mail her, its getting long) > The idea that "there are certain areas in the US where a person with a light complexion really, really > should not go" is a common ploy used by many White racists and conservatives here,.... >...Well, in the late �80s, ...The two were chased and beaten by a White mob, ... > Now, Harlem (not Haarlem) is a historic Black neighborhood in New York City of some 200,000 people... > ...White people live in Harlem (not many, but a number do),.. > ...White people work in Harlem, and this much maligned community has not shown any incident of color > hatred, manifested through an attack on a White person on the basis of his hue... > ...The singular incident...Rodney King,... > ...An innocent White man, Reginald Denny,... > All of this is to say, that under normal circumstances there is no record of "Black racism" as you > would like us to believe. But your racism prevails, when you provoke unwarranted fear of Black people > (in the USA) based on color, when the circumstances do not warrant it. As I wrote before, I have no statistics to support my claim, maybe some of the other members of Gambia-L are able to help me/us with some numbers on crimes in Harlem or any other areas?! What do you think, is there no difference if a "white guy" walks down a "downtown" Harlem street or a "Black guy" does the same?! Just asking, never been there, so I don't know. Am I a racist when I ask a single question about some single areas in the US?! I never said it is a fact, and I cannot be asked to make a disclaimer on any question to avoid being a "racist provoker"!?! >>> I really need to ask, why should the expression of pride in one's people be source of >>> irritation >>> for someone else???? >>So then it is Okey for me to say, horrray, a WHITE man just beat Tyson or Carl Lewis or >>whoever because "WHITES" are MY people?!? > In a historical context, one could never equate the two scenarios, precisely because Black > participation has traditionally been excluded from such activities. White participation has not, So > there is nothing new to White participation and therefore White winning. Once again, you overlook and > ignore, the historical and contemporary context of these responses. Perhaps, because White people have > always had high visibility in the record books, history books, and any other book you can think of, you > do not have a sense of urgency. However, as the statements of either: Black inferiority, or general > lack of fitness of Black people for anything worth merit, one by one fall down, through the efforts and > achievements of People of Color, I and others will cheer these achievements and cheer them LOUDLY and > WITHOUT APOLOGY!!! If you do not cheer, then that is your right; I understand it quite well; in fact, > I wouldn't expect you to cheer. If you look in the history books, all the people that achieves something actually has names and stories behind them. They are idividuals, not just "whites" (or "blacks"). This is what makes them interesting as sportsmen/women etc. Today you have people of any "color" making achievements in sports etc. and everybody cheers the achiever, being it a American, Englishman, Chinese or whatever. What makes them interesting is their talent, their ability and the story behind their success, NOT the color. This is how it should be if you ask me. For me there is nothing like "they" and "us" in the sense of color. I believe "color" is a unhealty separation of people, looked upon in any context, historically or otherwise. Now,now "old man" what is this: "I wouldn't expect you to cheer." an assumption, on my behalf?!? (Just trying to shorten the mail her, its getting long) > In 1936, the Black man Jesse Owens... >..Whereas Jesse Owens's victory over these peculiar ethnic notions did not imply Black athletic superiority >over White people, a notion which you seem to want to ascribe to those of us who dare cheer Black achievement; >but it did serve to knock down a myth of Black inferiority in one arena of life >(with implications extending to other arenas.) Me ascribing anything like "black athletic superiority" is all in your own mind, my dear fellow, since I do not care about color. When I first saw the documentary of Jesse Owens I had goosepimples on the achivements he made as a statement for the free world against Nazi-Germany. It was fascinating and I cheered LOUDLY. > When the Brown Bomber, Joe Louis, defeated Max Schmeling, he not only defeated another boxer, but he > kicked the butt of a racist theory of White supremacy. The reverse has never been true, because Blacks > have never been in similar positions of power on a global basis. You see Mr. Torstein, the idea of > racism revolves around the issue of power and how that power influences collective behavior. Blacks > have never been in such positions of power to influence collective behavior, while the recognition you > receive as "toubab" has nothing to do with either power or behavior. Everything revolves around power if you ask me. Racism as far as I have learnt is a mix of fear, lack of knowledge, collective behaviour as you say, peoples tendency to always group things, conservatism etc. Since we are visually dependent creatures, "black" and "white" is a convenient but erranous way to group people. > In looking at television in the 1960s, (before you were born) many of us cheered the few times we saw a > Black person momentarily appear on the television screen for the brief quarter of a second that he or > she would appear in a television commercial. I can remember those experiences vividly! Why? Because > we were traditionally excluded from participation in the larger society, nationally, and globally, on > the basis of color! Was this exclusion a situation of our (read, our = Black people's) creation? I > think that even you should see the point here. Again, the issues of power and behavior arise. My > annoyance stems from the fact that as we react to situations which have been thrust upon us, you feel > threatened because some of us feel a sense of solidarity, based upon common experiences of oppression > and the melanin we have in common. Yes, "even I" see the point. It is not pleasant to even think about such scenarioes, but I can't do very much about it, other than draw experience from it. But this is not the sixties now, I would mildly suggest that the situation is different (better?!) now in some parts of the world. I will stand together with you in any confrontation you would ever experience regarding racism. You are wrong when you believe I am feeling threatened, I am just asking for a critical approach to the use of "color". >>> And then, why should I allow someone else to define for me, with whom I collectively >>> identify? >> I will defend to my death your right to define anything you like, but as a consept my >> personal belief is that it is not the best way to make peace among people from around the world. > > Oh, I see, and you are saying that any sense of Black solidarity is responsible for that lack of > peace? Yeah, right! This is a common ploy utilized by those who are not concerned with our best > interest; "Blame the victim for being victimized." And any attempt to break out of the cycle of > victimization, meets with the criticism of those who benefit from our subordinate position. Again you are assuming the wrong thing (on behalf of me). All I am saying is that to use the two "colors" "white" and "black" to separate people, is a generalisation of people that creates polarization and divides humans into "us" and "them" regardless of who is doing it, "white","black","brown,"red","yellow","gray" etc.........(getting tired of this colorfocusing :-( ) > >> If Mr. Torstein has a problem with expressions of Black pride or the expression of a > >> positive Black > >> identity, then I suggest that is his problem, and that he has some issues, that he has to > >> resolve. > > >A positive black identity?, where the important thing is that "MY COLOR" beat the bad > >"WHITE" > >people?!? > > That is interesting. According to my understanding of your response there can be nothing like a > positive Black identity. Furthermore, I see that you have a problem of interpretation. I don't > remember characterizing events like you have. Why did you use the adjective "bad" to characterize > "WHITE people?" Is this something that I have actually written on this list in the above context? Or > is this a creation of your own mind? I would suggest "you look before you [make the inductive] leap" > This is your characterization, not mine. If one were to follow your characterization, then any team or > individual whom I support, would be contesting against an evil or "bad" opponent. So, when I cheer an > individual (whom I support), then it is obviously because the opponent was a bad and nasty team or > individual. Does this reasoning makes sense to you? You can take away the "bad" in the sentence without changing my meaning. Is this colorstruggle really what we want? "White" against "Black" on the racefield, economically, politically etc.? "Black" identity in my opinion should be unecessary just as "White" identity is. It is maybe theoretically today, but could be the thing to aim at. > >> After all, to categorize on ANY LEVEL is to be exclusionary to some group in the world. > >> The > >> Olympics is a vehicle for the type of pride expressed on a national level. Are the > >> Olympics, or > >> the type of pride which the Olympics foster wrong? > > >You just said it my friend, the olympics being a big, wonderful mix of people from around > >the world > >of any > >color nuance competing on the basis of skills and talent and really not "COLOR"!!! > > Again, thank you for conveniently missing the point. In the Olympics, people compete on the basis of > skill, training, and NATIONALITY. Nationality is a category which, can be and is framed to be > inclusive of some, but excludes others. Is this a problem for you? Probably not if I remember some of > your earlier posts correctly. You don't mind categorization on any other level than color. People > cheer for national pride in the Olympics. Team members cheer on fellow team members, not because of > the INTRINSIC qualities each individual team member has, but because they are TEAM MEMBERS! Well, for > me one team I am proud to belong to is the team, which wears the Black suits all day long, even if > there are some disgruntled team members who do not consider themselves to be part of the team. That > goes with the territory. And by the way, the paragraph you are referencing looks at the sources of > pride within the Olympics, not the idea of the bases of competition. I did not miss your point. I just don't think you can draw straight comparison between colorcategorization and categorization by Nation. There is a Maroccean from my country that I hope will perform in the next Olympics on long distance running. My dream is that he comes back with a gold medal in his bag. That his skincolor is sligthly brownish is of absolutely no interest. So again for me The Olympics are a showcase on how the world should compete. The best man/woman not the "best" color. > >> Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always felt threatened > >> when Black > >> people express pride in themselves. > > >I feel treathened by violent people, ignorant people, people with guns, fanatic people > >and people without humor, but you can beat your chest as much as you like for me, > >I will evaluate you by the things you do and not your "COLOR". > > And that is fine. I will recognize you by whatever distinguishing characteristic you possess, not by > ignoring them. You keep confusing recognition, with evaluation, which are not the same. Admittedly, > one could simultaneously recognize and evaluate any phenomenon one chooses, however, this is not > necessarily the case. In an earlier post I seem to recall (and I am sure that you will correct me if I > am wrong) that you mentioned your resentment to people or children, specifically (I forget which one, > and have deleted that post) who see you and refer to you as "Toubab" This is the point of recognition > for the people who greet you as so. There is no evaluation of your character on the basis of this > designation. After all, neither your name nor your nationality are printed on your forehead for all to > see and read, so no one can refer to you in that manner, if they first meet you or develop nothing more > than a passing acquaintance with you. It is ridiculous for me to reference "that fruit" when I want to > refer to an orange in a bowl of apples. The orange in the midst of apples serves as its own > reference! Your whiteness in a land of Black people is a distinguishing characteristic. No rocket > scientist needed here. Like it or not, that is the reality. It is not a comment on your character or > personality, it is a comment on your appearance. Period. Well, you seem to be hung up on details. Conserning Evaluation & recognition. Toubab can be a evaluation if you think about it; - I am a foreigner, - I have a lot of money, (to give away) ("toubab, give me some Dalasi...") - I can help them in any way they need, - I am nice, - I can take them to Europe, etc. Just to be a little Nitty Gritty back. What I tried to say in a simple way was that for instance an athlete like Carl Lewis for me is a big star because of his personality and talent and not "color". To beat your chest because Carl Lewis happens to have a '"brown color" makes me say, "so what?" > >> For Black people to express this type of pride is not demeaning to others, as both of you > >> would > >> suggest, but rather, is the result of numerous historical processes. > > >I am humble and sometimes depressed in the face of history, but for myself I make my > >own > >reputation, and will speak up if people use my skincolor to define me. > > That, again, is a problem with which you will have to live. It is either silly or extremely naive to > think that we arrive and act in the world independently of historic events or global social forces. We > are shaped by such events and forces, just as we play a part in shaping history and society. The difference between the shaping of people and the shaping of a mountain is that people can chose to change or "reshape" it self based on intelligence and knowledge. That is what gives me hope. > >> If I express a love for my wife, does it demean other women??? I hope not!!! The > >> Torstein argument > >> is the same argument that I have heard time without number, coming from White people of > >> various > >> backgrounds (most NOT well intentioned) and a number of "liberal" Black folks, as to > >> why there > >> should be, for instance, Black Studies or Black History? The answer to that question is, > >> all > >> things being equal, that there should not be such programs. However, as we all know, All > >> Things > >> Are Not Equal! These programs, as well as the expression of Black pride are the historic > >> result of > >> the exclusion of the voices of Black people and their experiences in the larger arena. > >> Now, when > >> Black people get a voice, you try to silence that voice, on the alleged basis of being > >> offensive to > >> some people? > >> M W Payne > > > So the important thing here is to voice out color segregation but the other way? > > Should not the voice of opressed people fighting against colordiffences, be to > > fight against evaluating people based on color??! > > Mr. Torstein, God created color differences, not me. I have no problem with the differences, as there > is nothing wrong with the varieties of human existence. Human beings however recognize and acknowledge > those differences (again, nothing wrong here), and may act upon those differences (there is a > possibility of foul play). My point is, that whereas you are prepared to deny the obvious, I am NOT, > because it is not inherently value laden. Different doesn't necessarily mean better; it doesn't > necessarily mean worse. It simply means DIFFERENT. You have a good point here, that there can be grouping based on color, without any negative components attached to it..but do you believe it yourself?! > Right here in the good ol' US of A, a number of Black people (regardless of nationality, character, > educational background, or any of the host of characteristics you would insist that we examine first) > have lost their lives, simply because of their skin color. I have personally experienced dogs that > are trained to bark at and attack Black people exclusively!!! So, please don't lecture me, or attempt > to tell me how to approach life. You are far too young and inexperienced to do that. > M W Payne I have never tried to lecture anyone, just giving out my thoughts as everybody else. I am fairly young, inexperienced, and I would never even attemt to tell you how you should run your life. But maybe I have had some positive influence on you, regarding color and how to look at it?! Re: Caps lock. I was not the one using capital letters in the mail. I don't know how long you have been on e-mail/Internet but it is actually considered rude and "shouting" as e-mail ethics go. No lecturing of course, just a tip. Best Regards, Torstein The Gambia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:36:47 +0300 From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Junius' words Message-ID: <01bcf6a4$0b63f1a0$272385c2@kolls567> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr.Jallow! You are really provocative! But I must admit that your this excerpt sounds dangerously close to discribing the present state of affairs of present day Africa.Please,try to be nice to us next time you send a Quote,and keep up the good work down there! Regards Bassss! If, on the >contrary, we see a universal spirit of distrust and disaffection, a rapid, >decay of trade, dissensions in all parts of the empire, and a total loss >of respect abroad in the eyes of foreign powers, we may pronounce without >hesitation, that the government of the country is weak, distracted, and >corrupt." > >Could one say that he was writing of BLACK AFRICA???? > > > >Regards, >Moe S. Jallow > >======================================================================== > mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:49:32 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Junius' words Message-ID: <9711211949.AA28694@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bass, you wrote: > Mr.Jallow! > You are really provocative! But I must admit that your this > excerpt sounds dangerously close to discribing the present state of affairs > of present day Africa.Please,try to be nice to us next time you send a > Quote,and keep up the good work down there! > > > Regards Bassss! > If, on the > >contrary, we see a universal spirit of distrust and disaffection, a rapid, > >decay of trade, dissensions in all parts of the empire, and a total loss > >of respect abroad in the eyes of foreign powers, we may pronounce without > >hesitation, that the government of the country is weak, distracted, and > >corrupt." > > > >Could one say that he was writing of BLACK AFRICA???? Bass, Me...provocative? Maybe...but NOT in a resentful way I hope :-(. If you find this excerpt provocative, then I will set politics aside and say that If this were the forum to expose in detail the shallowness of African governments and how their example causes other members of the elite ruling class to engage in the same empty struggle for power, but mostly for personal gain, I would be more detailed in my response to you. It is sufficient to say that your response on this topic should be a stimulus to keep in mind why most African countries lack progress in development and constitutional order. The excerpt above is directly related to our problem of lack of a political system that would serve as a road map to build a well-organized society. We lack visionary leaders who can frame a government suitable for the flowering of democracy and economic development. We condemn western ideas, such as democracy, as unsuitable for our society, yet our intellectuals look foolish making those accusations without a native substitute. We are invariably impressed with people with higher education without asking whether their acclaimed learning can transform our society. The politicians we choose to lead us are chosen not for leadership skills that develop society but for the client-patron relations we may acquire later from them. When soldiers see the educated class and politicians doing things for only themselves, they too imagine to become part of the system, whereafter more hell breaks loose. The worst thing (sadly of course) is that any intellectual who seeks to create modernization in Africa is condemned as too western for the nation. Thus, to survive, he goes along, to get along. Is this not why some of us refuse to go back home? Will we ever witness the "miracles" of change???????? Have an enjoyable weekend! Regards, Moe S. Jallow ========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:33:31 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Humor: Several for the weekend Message-ID: <9711212033.AA48840@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here are some few jokes for the weekend. WARNING: some of the jokes contain language that may be offensive to some of you. If you are easily offended with explicit language, then I suggest you DELETE this email message WITHOUT reading. For those of you who appreciate jokes of this type, well...enjoy! Till next week. Have an enjoyable week! Regards, Moe S. Jallow ======================================================================= mjallow@sctedu mjallow@hayes.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A man and his son recently moved to Texas. One Saturday afternoon they decided to take a walk through the park. During the walk the boy sees 2 cowboys walk by. "Dad, look at those bow-legged bastards!" The father is surprised by this and tells his son that that is not very nice language to use. A few minutes later, 2 more cowboys walk by and again the boy yells, "Dad, look at thoses bow legged bastards!" The father, quite upset now turns to his son and says, "I told you not to say that and I do not want to hear it again, or else." just a few minutes go by and another pair of cowboys walk by and once again the child yells, "Dad, look at those bow-legged bastards!" "Thats it!" the father yells, and takes the child home and locks him in his room with the complete works of Shakespeare. Two weeks later, he lets his son out and notices that he has taken to speaking like Shakespeare wrote. This impressed the father so he decided to take his son out for another walk through the park. As they were walking a pair of cowboys walk past them. The boy turns to his father and says, "Father, what strange men are these, whose balls hang in parenthises?" ------------------------------------------------------------------- A tiny but dignified old lady was among a group looking at an art exhibition in a newly opened gallery. Suddenly one contemporary painting caught her eye. "What on earth," she inquired of the artist standing nearby, "is that?" He smiled condescendingly. "That, my dear lady, is supposed to be a mother and her child." "Well, then," snapped the little old lady, "why isn't it?" ------------------------------------------------------------------- A Sunday school teacher asked her class, "Does anyone know Jesus' Mother's name?" Susie raised her hand and said, "It was Mary." The teacher said, "Very good Susie. Do you know Jesus' Father's name?" Little Johnny said, "Yes, it was Virg." the teacher asked how he came up with her answer. He said, "You know, Verg 'n Mary....." ------------------------------------------------------------------- This man goes to confession and says, "Forgive me father for I have sinned." The priest asks if he would like to confess his sins and the man replies that he used the "F-word" over the weekend. The priest says, "Oh okay, just say three Hail Marys and try to watch your language. The man replies that he would like to confess as to why he said the "F-word". The priest sighs and tells him to continue. Well father I played golf on Sunday with my buddies instead of going to church. The priest says, "And you got upset over that and swore?" The man replied, "No, that wasn't why I swore. On the first tee I duck-hooked my drive well left into the trees." The priest said, "And that's when you swore." The man replied, a little testily because of the constant interruptions, "No, it wasn't. When I walked up the fairway, I noticed my ball got a lucky bounce and I had a clear shot to the green. However, before I could hit the ball, a squirrel ran by and grabbed my ball and scurried up a tree." The priest asked, "Is that when you said the 'F-word'?" The man replied, "No, because an eagle then flew by and caught the squirrel in it's sharp talons and flew away." The priest let out a breath and queried, "Is that when you swore?" The man replied, "No, because the eagle flew over the green and the dying squirrel let go of my golf ball and it landed within 5 inches of the hole." The priest screamed, "Don't tell me you missed the *ing putt!!!" ------------------------------------------------------------------- One day this man was jumping up and down on a manhole cover screaming at the top of his lungs, "Seventeen!! Seventeen!!" Intrigued by the man's insane behavior, another man walks over to him and asks why he is doing that. The first man responded, "It's a blast. You have to try it. Jump as high as you can and scream 'Seventeen!!' as loud as humanly possible. You get such a rush. Try it." Reluctantly, the second man gets on the manhole cover and barely hops and says, "Seventeen?" very timidly. The first one says, "No, no, no. You're doing it wrong. Jump higher. Yell louder." So, the second man begins jumping a little higher and speaking louder than normal. Finally he says, "Hey, you know, I am getting a little bit of a rush. Seventeen!! Seventeen!!" The man jumps higher and higher, screaming louder and louder. The first man, once the second had jumped high enough, yanked the manhole cover out from under the second, causing him to fall down the manhole. The first one man replaced the cover and, once again, began jumping and screaming, "Eighteen!! Eighteen!!" -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:56:01 -0500 (EST) From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: FYI Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971121155343.18988C-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII For those who may be interested: Accra Distance Learning/InfoTech >> >> CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT >> >> Volunteers >> >> UPDATE: Ghana Distance Learning / InfoTech Conference >> May 20 - 22, 1998 >> >> At the end, please find an update, and an invitation to >> volunteer help with the planning and implementation, by >> participating in informal discussion by E-mail -- a list >> has been set up for the purpose of making all arrangements for >> the Conference. Find details at the end of this msg. >> _______ >> A f r i c a - B r a z i l - C u b a >> >> D i a s p o r a P r o g r a m s >> >> _______________________________________________________________ >> >> Internships / Travel-Study / EduTouring / Study Abroad >> _______________________________________________________________ >> >> AASP >> EDUCATIONAL / Travel Programs to AFRICA & BRAZIL & CUBA >> for 1997 / 1998 / 1999 >> >> Offers an intense immersion in and exposure to traditional >> and modern life, a unique educational experience that is >> career-enhancing -- and profoundly personal and >> relevant -- in our Global Village. >> >> Select from among several different travel itineraries, >> program themes, and dates year round. >> >> CONTACT: >> Professor Harold Rogers >> President, AASP >> >> 19 S. LaSalle St., Suite 301 >> Chicago, IL 60603 >> Phone: 312-443-0929 >> >> E-mail your name & >> full address to BOTH: >> >> 1- "Update/Information" <AASP@Juno.Com> >> 2- "Brochure/Application" <AfricanEduTravel@Yahoo.Com> >> WHEN TO >> APPLY? >> We are now accepting applications. >> >> COUNTRIES: >> Senegal, Ivory Coast, Mali, South Africa, Egypt, >> Ethiopia, Ghana, Kenya, Zimbabwe, The Gambia, >> Cameroon, Mozambique, Namibia, Brazil, Cuba >> >> ACTIVITIES >> & SITES: >> Urban centers; rural villages; cultural and historical >> sites; geographic and natural landmarks; explore >> traditional life, linguistic and ethnic diversity; >> experience a unique blend of human warmth & vitality >> of spirit; leave the beaten path to see, feel and >> appreciate what tourists rarely could or would. >> >> DURATION: Programs range from 1 week to 3 weeks, beginning >> variously in December, February, June, July & August. >> >> Special programs with particular themes may be arranged. >> >> COST: >> Fees start at $995 - the lowest cost anywhere for a >> program of this scope; includes travel, accommodations, >> breakfast & full daily program -- led by Dr. Rogers and >> experienced AASP staff. >> >> ACADEMIC >> CREDIT: >> Students typically arrange to receive 3 to 10 units >> from their respective schools; or credit can be earned >> through AASP's university affiliation, either graduate >> or undergraduate units WHO CAN >> APPLY? >> Participation is open to professionals, students, >> non-students, technicals, and interested persons >> in the general community >> >> All are welcome. Applications now being accepted. >> >> HOW TO >> RAI$E >> THE FUND$? >> Please go to the Websites below where you will find >> superb help with fundraising -- how to obtain grants, >> scholarships and loans; how to receive support from your >> campus or department; how to appeal to groups and >> organizations both on campus and in the community; and >> how to win support from businesses, charities, religious >> groups and foundations. being persistent. Virtually all who make an effort >> to raise the funds, do succeed. As a 501(C)(3) >> non-profit organization, donations made to AASP >> toward your participation are tax-deductible. >> >> http://www.studyabroad.com/forum/financial_aid.html >> http://www.fund-raising.com/ideabank3.html (a cornucopia of ideas!) >> http://www.studyabroad.com/handbook/costs.html#aid >> >> ________________________________________________________________ >> >> Contact us to receive the application, brochure with itineraries, >> program details and special features. For faster response, >> best to phone: 312-443-0929 to circumvent our E-mail backlog >> _________________________________________________________________ >> >> ABOUT AASP... The African American Studies Program, established in 1981, is a >> non-profit organization committed to broadening educational, >> cultural and political perspectives about African countries, >> societies and peoples. More than just a tour, we offer a variety >> of educational experiences in each country to heighten awareness >> and understanding. Our programs are open to anyone who has an >> interest in learning more about Africa and the African Diaspora. >> >> =============================================================== >> >> Accra Distance Learning/InfoTech >> CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT >> >> Your Invitation to Help... >> >> THE GHANA DISTANCE LEARNING/INFO TECH CONFERENCE >> TO BE HELD IN ACCRA: MAY 20 - 22 1998 >> >> GHANA SPONSOR: The Voluntary Workcamps Association along with numerous organizations, institutions and NGO's in Ghana and worldwide >> >> VOLUNTEER TO HELP VIA INFORMAL DISCUSSION BY E-MAIL >> >> FOR INFO, PLEASE CONTACT: >> >> DR. OSEI DARKWA >> Faculty, University of Illinois >> >> <darkwa@tigger.cc.uic.edu> >> >> Please contact Dr. Darkwa if you would like to participate >> pro bono in the planning and implementation of this >> conference, or play some other role in the area of your interest. >> >> You are invited to join the E-Mail discussion group GHACLAD-SCOPE which has been set up to promote and carry >> out the conference, including making all arrangements, >> resolving any problems, and fine-tuning the agenda and program. >> >> To join the List, please send a msg with "subscribe ghaclad-scope" >> in the body to: >> >> majordomo@igc.org >> >> You will immediately be added to the GHAGLAD-SCOPE >> discussion group. >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> FINAL DATES OF CONFERENCE >> >> May 20-22, 1998 >> >> OBJECTIVES OF THE CONFERENCE a) To initiate a long-term effort to promote electronic networking >> for economic and educational development in Africa. >> >> b) To examine the future of education in electronic classroms >> without walls >> >> c) To explore the barriers to developing transnational goals >> for infusing computer literacy into primary, secondary, and >> tertiary education in Africa >> >> d) To strengthen the capacity of grassroots organizations >> and low income communities to initiate, choose, plan and >> manage their own self help projects through computer technology >> and information systems. >> _________________________________ >> Thanks....................Musa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:43:58 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: lets' do it Message-ID: <3476009E.1952@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Modou Jallow wrote: > > Let's do it! > > That would be wonderful. Please, Let me in on it. > > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow > > > > Fatima.Yes Fatima," Lets do it "( I think that seems to be a good theme ) I mean > > a mission statement for this purpose. > > Habib Way to go Let's do it hdg -- MZ� ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:02:05 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: lets' do it Message-ID: <347604DD.5F1C@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Malanding S. Jaiteh wrote: > > I think this is an idea whichlong overdue. However, it will be > important that we consider all options before we get into it. > Earlier on Dr Kamara in Seatle forwarded something on life insurance > . I will suggest that a team be set up to review the various suggestions and > come up with reccommendations. > > Malanding Jaiteh Let's do it Mamading, I met your sister in law at Agie's funeral yesterday(it turned out good-Alhamdulillah-) The insurance notion was set up by our Gambian Muslim Assn but it never got off ground due to some organizational constraints. Mr Steve Wilson , a west African national, had a proposal to me (which was forwarded to Pa Ndarow Sey- the current President of the Gambia Muslim Assn) that will cover only burial & funeral expenses of about $5000.00-five thousand only (TERM INSURANCE)for only $14.00(fourteen dollars a month) per person in the Assn. This will eliaveate the burden on us for the funeral costs and there will be left over cash average muslim burial in the USA is about $4000.00* If the family wants to take the body and theycan afford it without delay then so be it. If you want details call Steve Wilson at 301 864 9000 or me at my new office 703 506 1260 Habib Diab Ghanim -- MZ� ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:14:04 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Another act of terror Message-ID: <347607AC.5A52@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MJagana@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-11-18 23:59:42 EST, you write: > > << That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I > believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not > saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We > should careful in how we present our views. >> > > OUSMAN, > > I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT THE DIFFENCE HERE BETWEEN BEEN A MUSLIM, AND BEEN AN > ARAB. AFTER ALL THE KILLERS ARE ARABS WHICH THERE IS NO DENIAL TO THAT FACT. > > HOWEVER THE MEDIA ( IN THE USA) DOES NOT DISTINGUISH THESE ARABS, RATHER THEY > CLASSIFIED THEM AS MUSLIM EXTEREMISTS WHICH I FEEL IS WRONG. > > IF YOU THING MY COMMENT IS GETTING CLOSE TO A RACIST COMMENT, WELL THAT IS > YOUR INTERPRETATION AND I RESPECT YOUR SENSE OF INTERPRETATION. > > HOWEVER I STAND BY MY CLASSIFICATION OF THSES MURDERS AS ARABS. > > MOMODOU JAGANA Momodou I beg to differ on this issue If you want to make a distinction then make it clear that SOME Arabs who claim to be muslims commited this crime. That is more acceptable in my opinion. Secondly, it is a known fact the many Israeli commandos kill innocent muslims and Arabs ,then escape into the wilderness and CLAIM afterwards that they were muslims JUST to taint the Islamic Faith. It is happening in Algeria, Palestine and Israel itself. So please be careful when you make blanket statements like this . We have many crimes here in Washington that we think are commited by Blacks against Blacks when it is found out later that it is not so .Just a reminder -do you remember the case in Boston the white man who shot his wife and said it was a black guy !! and the case of Susan ?? of north Carolina that said a black man kidnapped her children just later to admit she herself pushed them into the Lake Peace Habib -- MZ� ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:16:04 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: suggestion Message-ID: <34760824.45E2@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit KTouray@aol.com wrote: > > I am very glad that some of you agreed to my idea. I have also sent letters > to various people whose adresses i had by calling them eventhough some are > very reluctant to give their adresses. I tried to explain to them the reason > behind it but they just couldn't buy it. I think i would end up hand > delivering them instead. As we all know, everyone will not agree to this idea > but all we need is something to start with. With or without everybody we can > still do it . We cannot just give up because most people choose not to > participate. Some people don't believe in starting anything because of risks > that might involve but everything in live is risky in one way or another. > Right now i am waiting for a few days to know what other people think about > it and then we will be able to take it from there. As soon as i get some > answers i will let you know. > Thanks again, Fatou sanyang. Fatou Sanyang, Can you please post your number again. Habib -- MZ� ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:01:20 -0000 From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Another act of terror Message-ID: <B0000018055@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit MR MOMODOU. THAT IS NOT CALLED KILLING. THAT IS CALLED SELFDEFENCE, AND IS (SHOULD BE) DECIDED BY THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I hope some understand my understatement by overstating with Cap.letters...) Regards, Torstein The Gambia > WELL I SUPPOSE FEW YOUR OWN LIFE IS UNDER DANGER YOU ARE ALLOWED TO PROTECT > YOURSELF, > MOMODOU J ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:20:02 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Another act of terror Message-ID: <34760912.62C7@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jainaba Diallo wrote: > > Mr. Jagana, > > I have three questions for you....you may wanna respond to them or not > at all. BTW, I am not trying to provoke you...some people think I am > notorious in that regard. I'll not try to ridicule you either should you > respond. It will help me a lot in contributing to this thread if you > answer the questions below: > > 1. Do you believe that all arabs are muslim?? > > 2. Do you believe that all Egyptians are arabs?? > > 3. What is/are the reason(s) behind such acts af terror?? > > Cheers, > > Jainaba. > ********************************************************************* > > ><< That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I > > believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not > > saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We > > should careful in how we present our views. >> > > > > > >OUSMAN, > > > >I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT THE DIFFENCE HERE BETWEEN BEEN A MUSLIM, AND > BEEN AN > >ARAB. AFTER ALL THE KILLERS ARE ARABS WHICH THERE IS NO DENIAL TO THAT > FACT. > > > >HOWEVER THE MEDIA ( IN THE USA) DOES NOT DISTINGUISH THESE ARABS, > RATHER THEY > >CLASSIFIED THEM AS MUSLIM EXTEREMISTS WHICH I FEEL IS WRONG. > > > >IF YOU THING MY COMMENT IS GETTING CLOSE TO A RACIST COMMENT, WELL THAT > IS > >YOUR INTERPRETATION AND I RESPECT YOUR SENSE OF INTERPRETATION. > > > >HOWEVER I STAND BY MY CLASSIFICATION OF THSES MURDERS AS ARABS. > > > > > >MOMODOU JAGANA > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Jainaba those were very good questions and I am sure the picture will be clear afterwards. Almost ALL muslims oppose any terrist acts -Arabs or non Arabs. Secondly, less than ten percent of the world's muslim population are Arabs. -- peace Habib ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:25:30 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Setting up foundation. Message-ID: <34760A5A.47CD@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gunjur@aol.com wrote: > > Fatou, > l think that this is a good idea. It always breaks my heart when this sort of > thing occurs. In many instances, these people have not been seen by family > back home for years, and laying eyes on them even while dead is somewhat of a > comfort for these families, otherwise, it is hard for them to put closure to > the whole thing. l know that Islam dictates burial as soon as possible, but > as someone pointed out to me, if transferring the body can be done > immediately, then there is no harm done. l for one know that if l were to die > here, l would want to be put to rest in Gambia. l have a suggestion. l like > the proposal put forth for setting up the education foundation. Can we > somehow set this foundation up to cover other things(for example this idea) > as well as educational needs? This will simplify things by payment of just > one annual dues. We can accomodate these other needs by perhaps increasing > the annual dues to say $100.00 instead of the proposed $50.00. Some feedback > please. Thanks > > Jabou Joh. > > The past few months have been very rough on the Gambians in the U.S.A .from > immigration problems to death, some of us have been going through a rough > time: it is my understanding that the immigration has raided some restaurants > and unfortunately some of the people detained are our own blood. I have also > realised that 4 gambians have passed away and family members partly depended > on us tto contribute some money to send the deceased home for proper burial. > Having thinking about all this, it occurred me that with the joint effort of > everyone in this country, we can easily send deceased home. i think if we set > up a foundation by making monthly or yearly contribution and holding at least > quarterly meetings we will be well informed of what is happening to all of us > and therefore help out with things that need to be taken care of.I know that > it is not as easy as it seems, but a little time from everyone can make it > happen. > This is just a suggestion and i will be very happy to hear your points of > view as we all know that two minds are better than one.I am willing to work > with anybody on this and hoping that we will all participate in it. > We all know that as inevitable as death is we will not want a close friend to > be kept in the morgue waiting for money to be sent home for burial let alone > ourselves or a family member.So please let us work together since this is > something beyond our control. > This does not have to be for only people in MD, anyone is welcome to be part > of it. After all we can always transfer funds from one bank to another and > therefore state to another. > I am expecting replies from all and feel free to call me on (301)565-9427 if > you would rather talk about it. > thank you all, Fatou Sanyang. > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> > Received: from relay13.mail.aol.com (relay13.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.13]) > by air16.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:36:11 -0500 > Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu > [140.142.56.1]) > by relay13.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) > with ESMTP id AAA10915; > Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:35:04 -0500 (EST) > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id VAA15163; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:34:50 -0800 > Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.5]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id VAA33982 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 > 21:34:37 -0800 > Received: from mrin39.mail.aol.com (mrin39.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.149]) > by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP > id VAA21543 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:34:36 > -0800 > Received: (from root@localhost) > by mrin39.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) > id AAA28394 for gambia-l@u.washington.edu; > Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:34:05 -0500 (EST) > Message-Id: <971120003404_-53874598@mrin39> > Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:34:05 -0500 (EST) > Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: KTouray@AOL.COM > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: suggestion > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Jabou Your sentiments are just like most of us and you are right if the body of the deseaced can be transported as soon as possible( like the Senegalese do- they have money set aside only for this purpose-) the it is allowed according to most Islamic Scholars. Let's do it Habib -- MZ� ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:27:34 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Lif insurance etc. Message-ID: <34760AD6.164D@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gunjur@aol.com wrote: > > Malanding and others, > > Life insurance is fine, but please keep in mind that there is usually a long > process to go through before the insurer pays up. Unless of course there is > some kind of special arrangement with the insurer. Perhaps Dr. Kamara can > give details of the coverage etc. > > Jabou Joh. > > I think this is an idea whichlong overdue. However, it will be > important that we consider all options before we get into it. > Earlier on Dr Kamara in Seatle forwarded something on life insurance > .. I will suggest that a team be set up to review the various suggestions and > > come up with reccommendations. > > Malanding Jaiteh > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> > Received: from relay06.mail.aol.com (relay06.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.6]) by > air12.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:42:06 -0500 > Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu > [140.142.56.1]) > by relay06.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) > with ESMTP id QAA15242; > Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:26:00 -0500 (EST) > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id NAA06463; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:25:44 -0800 > Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.5]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id NAA44242 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 > 13:25:31 -0800 > Received: from news.mtu.edu (root@news.mtu.edu [141.219.70.11]) > by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP > id NAA07015 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:25:25 > -0800 > Received: from mtu.edu (root@mtu.edu [141.219.70.1]) > by news.mtu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10147 > for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:25:23 -0500 (EST) > Received: from oak.mtu.edu (oak.ffr.mtu.edu [141.219.149.151]) > by mtu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03982 > for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:25:23 -0500 (EST) > Received: by oak.mtu.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) > id QAA03945; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:23:16 -0500 > Message-Id: <199711202123.QAA03945@oak.mtu.edu> > Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:23:15 -0500 (EST) > Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh) > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: lets' do it > In-Reply-To: <199711202031.PAA04935@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "N'Deye > Marie N'Jie" at Nov 20, 97 03:31:30 pm > Content-Type: text > X-Authentication-Warning: campus0.mtu.edu: Host oak.ffr.mtu.edu > [141.219.149.151] claimed to be oak.mtu.edu > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Jabou it does not take that long because the funeral home bills the insurance companies and they pay all the costs including the Airfare in some cases. just for your information Habib -- MZ� ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:10:42 EST From: "BOJANG,BUBA" <BBOJANG@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re subscription Message-ID: <21NOV97.19632921.0017.MUSIC@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU> Fellas, What are we waiting for in responding positively to K. Touray's initiation? no one knows what will happen to you the next minute you get up from this computer, so let onesgood health today not predict good health for you tomorrow. Please enlist me among those who agree to it. Buba Bojang ( Bada ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:05:31 -0600 From: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Junius' words Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971121174431.3af78632@etbu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Moe, From your reply to Bass, it seems as if though even before you sent your first posting, you already had an inkling that the author, Junius, was actually refering to Africa. I like to think that he was actually refering to the English authorities. One has to really understand the historical situation in England at the time of relevance to better understand the semantics of this quote. Before i go into detail about the socioeconopolitical situation in England at the time, i will just refer you back to the first sentence of the mail. It reads as follows: "In his first letter to the Public Advertiser on January 21, 1789, Junius' assessment of the United Kingdom (for how government of his day was conducted) reads .... In my humble opinion, the above statement explicitly says that Junius was assessing how the govt of the United Kingdom was conducted at the time in question. For that reason, to ask the question: "Could one say that he was writing of BLACK AFRICA????" is a distortion of the context in which the assessment was made. Nevertheless, i definitely believe that even though out of context, the same quote could be said of Africa "today." Notice i emphasized "today" and not 1789. To the best of my recollection, Africa in 1789 was composed of empires and not the independent nations as we know them today. To be brief, i say that back then, the emperors and kings of the day in Africa got what they wanted from the people, including "civil obedience." It is this "civil obedience" in 1789 Africa that has further convinced me that Junius was refering to England when he said "dissensions in all parts of the EMPIRE." I capitalized "EMPIRE" to show that England was/is an empire as well. Now let's address the socioeconopolitical situation of England in 1789. 1789 found England at the infancy of her Industrial Revolution. Prior to 1803, England was primarily agrarian, but with the invention of several mechanical devices after 1740 (i'm not saying there were no mechanical devices before 1740), the economy shifted its focus from small scale yeomanry agriculture to institutionalized agri-production. This destruction of the yeomanry class resulted in a massive influx of peasants from the rural to the urban areas in search for work and a decent living. This in turn brought about a resultant decrease in agricultural productivity for a while. A major reason could be attributed to the fact that some of the major inventions of the time, the Steam Engine in particular, was only patented by James Watt in 1769 but its use in the smelting of iron and steel did not come about until 1788. So in essence, we see that manufacturing was also very low in addition to a decreased agricultural productivity. Quite naturally, the general population was very critical of the changes from the established agrarian system to a new system (industrial) whose effects were already being felt very hardly by the average person. It would not take long, but during this time that some historians have dubbed the "Stagnation Period," life in England was quite miserable. In fact it was so distasteful that the govt started rationing some essentials. The people thus lost confidence in govt policies. Consequently, riots and other criminal behavior became a necessary option. In my opinion, it is this loss in "obedience for the law," this "ill-condition of the people," this "distrust and disaffection" for the govt, this "dissension in all parts of the empire" in the form of riots, that Junius was talking about in 1789. I opine loudly that he was not referring to Africa. To ascertain my argument, several economists have addressed the conditions in England during this same period. Adam Smith (the father of Capitalism/Competition), in direct response to the conditions in England wrote "The Wealth of Nations" in 1776. He was a proponent of a freely competitive market system where the govt did not dictate the ventures of its citizenry. He explored how govt and individuals can accumulate wealth through competition without govt interference. This was warranted by the circumstances in England. This new way of thinking though did not sit well with the French because it was an extension of LAISSEZ-FAIRE (free market economics) without giving any credit to the French. At the same time, America had already declared independence from Great Britain in 1776, the same year that Adam Smith wrote his now famous doctrine. The only thing that i can deduce from the French-connection and this American-connection is that for England, there was "a total loss of respect abroad in the eyes of foreign powers." Again we see that Junius was talking to England. As regards the level of poverty in England, another great economist, Malthus, wrote in 1798 his Theory on Population to address the causes of poverty (again England). Finally, one other great economist, Ricardo, wrote in 1817 "Principles of Political Economy and Taxation" to address how the accumulated wealth through Adam Smith's theory can be evenly distributed amongst the population through taxation to remedy the conditions of poverty that Malthus talked about. My conclusion from this is that while Junius' statement was to prove prophetic as applicable to Africa, several other thinkers/economists before and after him have addressed the conditions of the English people in 1789. Junius was probably lamenting the radical changes brought about by industrialization, with its subsequent problems. It turns out though that Junius was wrong because America's or France's loss of respect for England had nothing to do with Industrialization, rather everything to do with national sovereignty in the case of America, and fundamental principle in the case of France. Also, industrialization turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to England in particular and the world in general. Maybe Junius' fear was valid at the time, but they are certainly ridiculous by today's standards. I thus rest my case. Have a good weekend everybody. Peace!!!!! It's Tamsir. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:20:06 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Junius' words Message-ID: <9711220420.AA45446@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tamsir, you wrote: > > Moe, > From your reply to Bass, it seems as if though even before you sent your > first posting, you already had an inkling that the author, Junius, was > actually refering to Africa. Ofcourse not, bro. Tamsir. The purpose was to demonstrate how exact the excerpt might have purported the the present day African scenario of shortcomings, eventhough it was written well before the days of our time. I think Bass understood precisely (I assume) the reason for the comparison as shown by his reactive comment of provocational interference on my part. Eventhough not totally intentioned, I thought that the excerpt might steer us in the direction of the ultimate debate on the cure for Africa's economic (and political) underdevelopment as seen by the western nations that continually inflict wounds of laughter on us. Nonetheless, the contents of your response were well noted and understood. Thank you for the auxilliary lesson of history that must have consumed some of your precious time while writing. It is very much appreciated! I will respond to you as soon as time permits. At the moment, however, I am kind of swamped with projects and will even be forced (unwillingly and unhappily) to stay away from my email for the next few days. Have a good weekend! Regards, Moe S. Jallow ========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- PS Tamsir, do you know of any good sources of history of the west african tribes? I am looking for sources (hopefully on the net) of history of the "Toucoleur" tribe(s) of senegambia to link/integrate to my website. If you know of any, please let me know via private mail. Thanks.
Momodou	Posted - 10 Sep 2021 : 15:18:51 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:54:41 +0100 From: Abdoulie Dibba <adibba@online.no> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? Message-ID: <01BCF431.E8088AA0.adibba@online.no> Colour problem is everywhere (It is just like a cancern and it should be fight) . I think it is our duty to forgive and cooperate. let colour not be criteria to congratulate or condemn anyone or to let it determine our social status in any society. There are both evil and good people in every race. The fighting should be among the evil and good people not people of different colours. Let also fight colour problem in our neightbouring country. Why is something not done about "lighter skin" Mauritanian consider their "darker skin" fellow country men as their slave because of their colour ? -----Original Message----- From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no [SMTP:amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 1997 1:37 PM To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? Sir, I can't seem to find the words that would describe exactly how grateful I am at your reply of Nov.17th. You saved me much energy and time from what would have been an angry outburst from my side. This man who comes from a country where black people are still referred to as "neger" and in whose language everything bad is black (svart) should either put up or shut up. Black people are justified in patting on the back all blacks who marvel in any descipline, sports etc. This man's failure to see/accept that colour was and continues to be the main criteria used in denying blacks their human rights just goes on to reaffirm the contempt that colourless people have always had for colourful people. Once more thank you for a job well done! A. Kabir Njie ---------- From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sent: 17. november 1997 7:03 To: ak; gambia-l; kolls567 Subject: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? <<File: part2.htm>> Torstein! I think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve your righ t not only to feel offended but to fight back whenever we get carried away with o ur this black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables on us(your changing of the wo rds Black for White in the article below) you have reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stanc e all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these black peop le make you feel guilty of offences committed by other whites. And keep up the good work down there! Regards Bassss! Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-S endmail It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300) id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800 Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id FAA36978 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:23 -0800 Received: from mail1.sn.no (0@mail1.sn.no [194.143.8.8]) by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id FAA09534 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:21 -0800 Received: from mail2.sn.no (0@mail2.sn.no [194.143.8.114]) by mail1.sn.no (8.8.6 /8.8.6/sol5) with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:1 7:17 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by mail2.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5) with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:17 :16 +0100 (MET) Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000 Message-Id: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000 Reply-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washingto n.edu> Subject: Color again.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Gambia-L. Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc. A short comment. My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails regarding my postings on color. However I still really believe that this emphasis on "white/black/color" is what we call in my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor). How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called "black"?! If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White" people, I believe I would get some angry mails back?!? Just look(capital letters are mine): >BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE???? >...What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a >time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a caddy >on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE >man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I >need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the >championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good >collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what the >dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years >masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I >think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but >hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports. >...So I thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE sports >and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of >them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK >sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a >fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the >idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football. >Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy >has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball >skills than being drafted into the NFL. > FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL... >The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why >some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey. >A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound >familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person >and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee >jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people >perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How >about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue? >Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm >sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there are >WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you ever >see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, if >WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know? >So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will. >Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have >my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on >the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last >physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get to the >economics one day), then its okay with me. >Cheers, >Torstein. Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like brainwashing.... For me it is simple. Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it only crea tes bad blood among humans. So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and "WHITE"???? My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more, regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a mesurement of people. As a person with a physical apperance that some people defines as "white" I will keep my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than "black color ra cism". Best Regards, Torstein The Gambia --------------------------------------------------------------------- amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no Narud Stokke Wiig AS Radhusgt. 27 N-0158 OSLO NORWAY Tel: +47 22 33 06 70 Fax: +47 22 41 45 01 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:27:00 +0100 From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? Message-ID: <3471a74e.narud@relay.nsw.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt Can you please try and formulate yourself better. I can't seem to make = any sense out of the jargon below! ---------- From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sent: 18. november 1997 2:54 To: ak; gambia-l; adibba Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? Colour problem is everywhere (It is just like a cancern and it should be fight) . I think it is our duty to forgive and cooperate. let colour not = = be criteria to congratulate or condemn anyone or to let it determine our social status in any society. There are both evil and good people in = every race. The fighting should be among the evil and good people not people of= = different colours. Let also fight colour problem in our neightbouring country. Why is something not done about "lighter skin" Mauritanian consider their= = "darker skin" fellow country men as their slave because of their colour ?= -----Original Message----- From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no [SMTP:amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 1997 1:37 PM To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? Sir, I can't seem to find the words that would describe exactly how grateful I am at your reply of Nov.17th. You saved me much energy and time from what would have been an angry outburst from my side. This man who comes from a country where black people are still referred to as "neger" and in whose language everything bad is black (svart) should either put up or shut up. Black people are justified in patting on the back all blacks who marvel in any descipline, sports etc. This man's failure to see/accept that colour was and continues to be the main criteria used in denying blacks their human rights just goes on to reaffirm the contempt that colourless= = people have always had for colourful people. Once more thank you for a job well done! A. Kabir Njie ---------- From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sent: 17. november 1997 7:03 To: ak; gambia-l; kolls567 Subject: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? <<File: part2.htm>> Torstein! I think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve your righ t not only to feel offended but to fight back whenever we get carried away with o ur this black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables on us(your changing of the wo rds Black for White in the article below) you have reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stanc e all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these black peop le make you feel guilty of offences committed by other whites. And keep up the good work down there! Regards Bassss! Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-S endmail It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300) id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800 Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.7])= by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id FAA36978 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:23 -0800 Received: from mail1.sn.no (0@mail1.sn.no [194.143.8.8]) by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id FAA09534 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:21= -0800 Received: from mail2.sn.no (0@mail2.sn.no [194.143.8.114]) by mail1.sn.no= (8.8.6 /8.8.6/sol5) with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:1 7:17 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by mail2.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5) with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:17 :16 +0100 (MET) Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000 Message-Id: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000 Reply-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washingto n.edu> Subject: Color again.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Gambia-L. Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc. A short comment. My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails regarding my postings on color. However I still really believe that this emphasis on "white/black/color" is what we call in my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor). How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called "black"?! If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White" people, I believe I would get some angry mails back?!? Just look(capital letters are mine): >BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE???? >...What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a >time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a caddy >on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE >man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I >need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the >championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good >collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what the= = >dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years >masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I >think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but >hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports. >...So I thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE sports= = >and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of >them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK >sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a >fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the >idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football. >Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy >has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball >skills than being drafted into the NFL. > FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL... >The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why >some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey. >A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound >familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person >and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee >jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people >perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How >about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue? >Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm >sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there are= = >WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you ever >see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, if >WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know? >So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will.= = >Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have >my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on >the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last >physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get to= = the >economics one day), then its okay with me. >Cheers, >Torstein. Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like brainwashing.... For me it is simple. Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it only crea tes bad blood among humans. So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and "WHITE"???? My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more, regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a mesurement of people. As a person with a physical apperance that some people defines as "white"= = I will keep my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than "black color ra cism". Best Regards, Torstein The Gambia --------------------------------------------------------------------- amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no Narud Stokke Wiig AS Radhusgt. 27 N-0158 OSLO NORWAY Tel: +47 22 33 06 70 Fax: +47 22 41 45 01 --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no Narud Stokke Wiig AS R=E5dhusgt. 27 N-0158 OSLO NORWAY Tel: +47 22 33 06 70 Fax: +47 22 41 45 01 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:03:06 +0100 From: Said Quamar <Said.Quamar@Aviaplan.no> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: I ask for a one break. Message-ID: <FBF1001D6A18D1118AC100A0C942F23001F79C@AVIA-A> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain hallo. I receive many mails everyday,It is very interesting to read many differents subjects, I ask now to stop sending me mails for while. I need to take break. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:28:59 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Another act of terror Message-ID: <9711181528.AA44512@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is a witness account to yesterday's terrorist attack in the ancient ruins of Luxor, Egypt. "The assailants sprayed their victims with assault rifles and when they ran out of bullets some of them used daggers to stab to death a number of people, including a police officer." TERRORISM, what a dangerous game to play! Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:13:54 +0200 From: chakys@image.dk To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR?????? Message-ID: <199711181619.RAA14522@mail.image.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi G-Lers, The question of colour is typical to any european country. Where the colour determine the individuality. It can't be wrong that Blacks are showing their identity through the issue of their race. I am not a black activist but i am proud to be black; i show it everywhere i got the opportunity to. The main reason to that ,it's that white show to us the colour of the skin has a big significance for them. I will just give a banal exemple: when you go to a big restaurant, you automaticaly pay people attention. It seem to be common that the White underestimate us, eventhough their stupid . The main problem is you can't convince them because they judge you by the colour of skin not by the content of your keen intellect. What a pitty !!!!!!!!!!!!111 When i see a black being successful , i get incredibly happy: when Tyson punch a white or Tiger Wood is leading the US open , You can imagine my happyness. White people don't need to be afraid of the awakening of black nationalism, they deserve it. Peace Chakys.- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:26:39 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: When Intellectuals argue.... Message-ID: <9711181626.AA44424@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ladies and gentlemen, I hope that the exchanges on the subject of "COLOUR" do not get out of hand. Since I was the one that 'unknowingly' brought it up in my QUOTE OF THE DAY, I would like to make a brief comment on debates that maybe sensitive in nature, such as "RACISM" and "COLOUR". Before I proceed though, let's consider the following scenario: A philosopher, a physicist and a mathematician were looking intently at an animal in the distance. First the philosopher spoke up. " That's interesting," he said. "I didn't know there were black sheep in this area". "Wait a minute" retorted the physicist. "You still don't know there are black sheep in this area; all you know is that there is a black sheep." "How do you prove that?" The mathematician sounded irritated. "All we see, and therefore all we have proof for, is that there is a sheep in this area, one side of which is black." Well, what can you infer from this intellectual conversation? Here we see that there are three different types of people. There are people who accept things on faith. There are others who accept facts only. There are still a good number who require proves. We are all so different and we can only avoid quarrels on this net if we are able to consider other people's writings as NO nonsense, as difficult a feat as it may be. Sometimes even when we believe strongly in our ideas and feelings we have to be willing to listen to others, unless of course it is disgustingly offensive in which case we make use of our DELETE button. I think it is really misleading that the first instinct of a lot of people on this forum is to attack profusely when they read something they disagree with or dislike. I think we need to rise above our angered minds and learn to objectively agree to disagree. I have had the honor and pleasure (on this forum), of reading the postings of some of the most knowledgeable Gambians I have ever come across. I have also had the displeasure of learning that there are some amongst us who may need to cool down their temper after reading what they think could be an offensive message. No hard feelings. Just thinking [aloud] Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:24:38 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Coups and even more Coups Message-ID: <9711181724.AA64998@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Another failed coup attempt in Sierra Leone as though the wounds of the past killings have been healed. Oh boy...where are we headed???? Reuters report: "...Ten people, six of them military, have been arrested in Sierra Leone in connection with an alleged plot to topple the West African country's military government, military sources said on Tuesday. A senior army officer told Reuters the six military men and four civilians wanted to topple the government of Major Johnny Paul Koroma because of its agreement to hand back power to ousted civilian president Ahmad Tejan Kabbah by April 22." Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:58:00 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Observer Online Update...anyone? Message-ID: <9711181758.AA49598@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Obsever Online Committee, Do you have any updated information on the Observer Online newspaper that you are currently working on? Momodou Camara, I understand that you just came back from the Gambia. Was there any progress made on this venture? Thank you for any update? Regards, Moe S. Jallow ======================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:10:28 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: What was Bill thinking? Message-ID: <9711181810.AA67906@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I wonder what Bill Gates was smoking.... At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving twenty-five dollar cars that got 1000 mi/gal." Recently General Motors addressed this comment by releasing the statement "Yes, but would you want your car to crash twice a day?" Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:12:53 +0200 From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Observer Online Update...anyone? Message-ID: <19971118191320.AAA41498@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Moe, We are preparing a new progress report which will be posted to the list soon. Hopefully before the end of the week. As Bass would say, keep up the good work down there! Momodou Camara On 18 Nov 97 at 12:58, Modou Jallow wrote: > Dear Obsever Online Committee, > > Do you have any updated information on the Observer Online newspaper > that you are currently working on? > > Momodou Camara, I understand that you just came back from the > Gambia. Was there any progress made on this venture? > > Thank you for any update? > > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow > > ==================================================================== > ==== > mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:47:40 +0200 From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New member Message-ID: <19971118194808.AAA14604@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Greetings, Kebba A.K. Trawally has been added to the list. Welcome to Gambia-l Kebba. We look forward to your contribution. You can send a brief introduction. Our address is: gambia-l@uwashington.edu regards Momodou Camara ***************************************************** http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 16:52:25 -0500 (EST) From: Gunjur@aol.com To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re- quote of the day Message-ID: <971118165225_2038623968@mrin45.mail.aol.com> This is no c---- (not fit to utter) indeed. There has long been an opinion among African Americans that some of their own who have so called "made it" tend to, in their effort to be accepted by Whites, shun their own. A common example given by some is "marrying White" as opposed to choosing Black mates by some of the economically successful Black folks.The argument goes that they will always somehow be measured by the color of their skin rather than the content of their character to para-phrase Martin Luther king.These folks are then seen as uncle Toms and traitors and treated as such. E.g, O.J Simpson. He remembered the Black community only when they were frying his you know what and not for very long either. This is not a new or out-dated opinion at all, so brother Moe S. Jallow, no need for appologies in my opinion. Besides, many people have quotes at the end of their correspondences on this list, some very insightful and some rather crude and deserve no more than to be overlooked with hopes that Allah, in his infinite mercy will bestow some wisdom on the sender someday soon. Yours, Mr. Jallow was happily not one of these. Jabou Joh. Sister Jainaba, I apologize if you found the quote offensive. I have no criteria for selecting a particular quote of the DAY. I randomly select one from a list of quotes that I have come across on that particular day. Rest assured there's no harm taken; it will take more than a blow on the head to get me offended. Besides, life would be very empty if one had nothing to regret. But remember this is a quote that was made in the 1950'S. Surely, you will agree with me that to to have been the first black ballerina to perform at the Metropolitan Opera in 1951 would not have been an easy task. Now let me ask you: how would you have responded if you were the first black at an all white sport in white America? Perhaps, Tiger Woods can help you answer that. Regards, Moe S. Jallow > Sir, > > If I may ask, what is your criteria for choosing a particular quote as > being that of the week. I think the piece below is a piece of crap!!! > (no pun intended....afterall you are not Janet Collins). > > You probably need to read it over a few more times if you wanna see my > point. > > Cheers, > > Jainaba. > > " WHEN YOU GET TO BE AN EXCEPTIONAL BLACK, > > YOU DON'T BELONG TO THE WHITE AND YOU > > DON'T BELONG TO THE BLACK. YOU ARE TOO > > GOOD FOR THE BLACK AND YOU WILL ALWAYS > > BE BLACK TO THE WHITE " > > - Janet Collins. > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> Received: from relay17.mail.aol.com (relay17.mail.aol.com [172.31.106.71]) by air04.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 18:05:32 -0500 Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu (lists3.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.3]) by relay17.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA21978; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:36:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id NAA07609; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 13:36:21 -0800 Received: from mx3.u.washington.edu (mx3.u.washington.edu [140.142.13.230]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id NAA37458 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 13:36:04 -0800 Received: from st6000.sct.edu (mjallow@st6000.sct.edu [168.28.176.249]) by mx3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id NAA06176 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 13:36:00 -0800 Received: by st6000.sct.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA67934; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:29:12 -0500 Message-Id: <9711142129.AA67934@st6000.sct.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:29:12 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: QUOTE OF THE DAY In-Reply-To: <19971114202902.23442.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Jainaba Diallo" at Nov 14, 97 12:29:02 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:12:06 +0100 From: Mamadou S Jallow <bala@algonet.se> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: orbituary Message-ID: <347212B6.7A05@algonet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit KTouray@aol.com wrote: > > Another one us has fallen in the person of Alieu Badara Jallow. I am told he > is a native of Serrekunda who lived in Kansas. He was undergoing surgery for > a heart ailment when he he suffered a fatal stroke. He lived with his > younger brother who now has the formidible task of transporting the body back > to the Gambia. All those who wish to send condolences and assitance can do so > at the following address: > > Momodou Seray Jallow(brother of the deceased) > > 5606 Floyd Apt 1A > Overland Park > Kansas 66206 > > May his soul rest in peace > Accept my simpathy. May his Soul Rest in Peace. /Bala & Family ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:52:01 -0500 (EST) From: Gunjur@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re-tragic death of= burial arrangements Message-ID: <971118174608_595178992@mrin53.mail.aol.com> Hi list members, l just got a call from brother Habib who informed me that he has convinced the family to go ahead and bury sister Aji Sowe here as opposed to sending the body home. The burial will be Thursday in Maryland. l will post more details as l get them. For those brothers in the vicinity, please make every effort to attend the burial.l am sure this small gesture will mean a lot to the family. Thanks. Jabou Joh. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:04:30 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: What was Bill thinking? Message-ID: <19971118230433.16956.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Brother Moe, He indeed was high on something....perhaps, his money!!!! It gets to some peoples head when they have too much of it. Such a comment from a person who STOLE Apple computers' (manufacturers of Macintosh)idea and bullying my favorite net browser, Netscape. What is his contribution to the computer technology anyway??? He was just at the right place at the right time....Bill "the Bully" Gates. Friendly, Jainaba. ***************************************************************** >I wonder what Bill Gates was smoking.... > >At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the >computer industry with the auto industry and stated "If GM had kept up >with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving >twenty-five dollar cars that got 1000 mi/gal." > >Recently General Motors addressed this comment by releasing the statement >"Yes, but would you want your car to crash twice a day?" > >Regards, >Moe S. Jallow > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:27:38 -0600 From: Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Jainaba's NASTY& STINKY attitude!!! Message-ID: <s471d025.078@wpo.it.luc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Jainaba, Now I am ready to make you day. I see you are trying really hard to provoke me to stoop to you level, and that I refuse to do!!! What did that I say in my posting that so terrible to warrant your insulting my intelligence??? All I was trying to say is that the Gambian consulate should provide some assistance to the Jallow family, no matter how little. This List being a democracy forum, you have every right to disagree with my posting. What I did not appreciate is the fact that you twisted what I said just to serve your purpose. You are certainly entitled to saying whatever is on your mind, but please do not ever use me AGAIN as a scapegoat to get you points across!!! Get it??? You seem to have this thing for pushing buttons to test what makes others tick, well my buttons cannot be triggered that easily!!! Tell me something, what is your real reason for being on this list??? If you asked me, you sure do seem to have a hidden agenda. Come out and state why you are really a member of Gambia-l!!! If you think for a second that you tactics of personal attacks, intimidation and fact twisting is going to deter me from speaking my mind, well then think again!!! If you think a stinky attitude like yours is what is going to scare people, oh boy, are you wrong!!! I suggest that you choose someone else for you mud slinging campaign, and leave me in peace. I am in no mood whatsoever, for any confrontation. This is the last time you will hear from me on this topic. For those of you who find this posting offensive, please forgive me. Ndey Kumba PS: I will always go in peace with or without your blessing. So, please save you blessing for someone who cares. >>> "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 11/17/97 08:41pm >>> Ndey Kumba, Since you gotta run, please do so in peace!! I still stand by the statement though: Talk is cheap, we should for a change put up or shut up!!!!!! Jainaba. PS: The arena is all yours....make my day!!!!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 18:42:20 -0500 (EST) From: Gunjur@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Kuntaur Fullah kunda Message-ID: <971118184103_767445649@mrin40.mail.aol.com> Musa, My dad had the biggest general store in Georgetown and also bought groundnut i.e TERETANG KAT. My family knew yours and l am sure they remember my dad.Noperi Jawo used to spend time at our house.My dad's name was Pa Ndaraw Joh. l went back to Georgetown and boy has it changed. l visited the house where all of the children in my family were born right on the banks of the Gambia river, the former Maurel and Prom. The house has sunk in about four feet or more and l silently stood to the side with years of memories, good and bad coasting through my mind as the local boys took tourists on a tour of the house, telling them that the basement under the house was once a holding place for slaves to be shipped out. l was born in that house and lived there for 9 years and never contemplated that that was what that basement was used for. l never even knew what slavery was . l only knew that basement as a place that my dad forbade me and my brothers from entering but we did anyway, when he was not looking, and we were always driven out by a swarm of bats.My grandma was married to Pa Omar Jallow and they used to spend the groundnut season at Kuntaur where l would visit her sometimes. Sorry to be so long winded. l must put my Georgetown memories on paper some day. Jabou Joh. MODOU: Thanks. It is interesting to hear that you are working with Kuntaur School because that is my alma matta. Infact, my parternal grand father founded Fulla Kunda, and called it" Kuntaur". The word "kuntaur" is a fulla word which means "a great pasture area for cattle". As people started to settle near the river they also called it Kuntaur. Now when others, in Jakaba and surrounding villages would travel to one of the kuntaurs, there was a confusion as to which one and as result, they would say Kuntaur Fulla Kunda (Kuntaur where the fullas live) and the other kuntaur simply remained that since there was a mixture of folks living there. As a result the town near the river became kuntaur and Fulla Kunda became Kuntaur Fulla Kunda or simply Fulla Kunda, and Jakaba became known as Kuntaur Jakaba or simply Jakaba. And, the Jakaba folks, at least, the elders who know the history still call me "Njati" (host) in reference to my grand fathers founding the area and giving them land to settle and build their own village. When my paternal grand father died, my dad was still in school at Armitage, which was meant only for sons of chiefs at the time , I am told. Therefore, my maternal grand father, Noperi Jawo took over the village leadership and today, I think my uncle, Dikory is heading the village. I have not been to the area for a long time, so may be when you get some time you can fill me in. I am told by Dr. Bojang, of Gambia College, that the area has changed. But anyway, the Danish seem to be doing good deeds back home, and I hope that our folks over there take good advantage of it. And, that the rest of us continue do what we can to help Gambian Education. If there is a way that I can be part of this Kuntaur project, I will be glad to participate. Thanks. Musa ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> Received: from relay22.mail.aol.com (relay22.mail.aol.com [172.31.106.68]) by air11.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:12:25 -0500 Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.1]) by relay22.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id MAA16435; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:12:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id JAA28232; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:11:29 -0800 Received: from mx5.u.washington.edu (mx5.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.6]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id JAA14150 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:11:14 -0800 Received: from panther.Gsu.EDU (chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU [131.96.1.18]) by mx5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id JAA08049 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:11:09 -0800 Received: from localhost (chemsm@localhost) by panther.Gsu.EDU (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06762 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:11:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971117115311.25837C-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:11:06 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <19971117155615.AAA30712@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 18:50:34 -0500 (EST) From: Gunjur@aol.com To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: wrong route Message-ID: <971118185033_-2041820253@mrin42.mail.aol.com> Hey Musa, At least the message prompted me to reminesce about my childhood home a bit. Jabou. My last nmessage to Modou Camara was not intended to be sent to the general Gambia L. It was meant to be sent to his private email, somehow something went wrong and I am trying to figure it out because this is the second time it has happened to me. My appologies. Musa ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> Received: from relay27.mail.aol.com (relay27.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.27]) by air16.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:12:52 -0500 Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu (lists3.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.3]) by relay27.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id TAA05565; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:09:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id QAA01820; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:09:07 -0800 Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id QAA30626 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:08:41 -0800 Received: from panther.Gsu.EDU (chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU [131.96.1.18]) by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id QAA07293 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:08:38 -0800 Received: from localhost (chemsm@localhost) by panther.Gsu.EDU (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA15179 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:08:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971117190533.7382B-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:08:31 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: appology In-Reply-To: <19971117155615.AAA30712@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:07:55 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: My take.......... Message-ID: <19971119010755.4248.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Ndey Kumba, Thank you very seriously for the kind remarks...I knew you'll make my day. God bless ya!! My response is interspersed in yours below: >Jainaba, > >Now I am ready to make you day. I see you are trying really hard to >provoke me to stoop to you level, and that I refuse to do!!! How hard am I trying to provoke you??? You said you gotta run...I prayed for you to do so in peace. Would you rather prefer a curse??? For your info., I don't have enemies...so I "curse" nobody. >What did that I say in my posting that so terrible to warrant your >insulting my intelligence??? All I was trying to say is that the >Gambian consulate should provide some assistance to the Jallow >family, no matter how little. Ndey, there has been a lot of talk on this forum since I joined. However, there is very little action...that's why I said that talk is cheap, for once WE (including myself) should put up or shut up!!! This statement is meant to be a challenge for us to for once make a difference. What happened to our education project??? We only get the same ideas recycled every couple of months or so (eg. donation of books). I am positive that the topic will come up again in a few months time. That's what I meant by that statement. We should also try in as much as possible to make the government irrelevant in our day to day activities. This is one of the main problems facing our continent...big government, taking care of most of the bills. The consulate said they don't have the funds...what's wrong with that. Why should we fire missiles because of that??? >This List being a democracy forum, you have every right to disagree >with my posting. What I did not appreciate is the fact that you >twisted what I said just to serve your purpose. Yessss (as Marv "bite me" Albert) would say, I do agree with you that the list is a democratic forum. My view of the internet is: A medium of communication, some of which is in an open unrestricted forum and some of which is in a restricted forum. My view is that Gambia-l is like a town-square, in which at one point in time there might be love-talk, insults, debate, and other forms of verbal exchange. Unlike a military parade ground, there is no sergeant-major to make sure everyone is in line. If you feel that I twisted what you said to "serve my purpose", please accept my apology. >You are certainly entitled to saying whatever is on your mind, but >please do not ever use me AGAIN as a scapegoat to get you points >across!!! Get it??? Scapegoat???? Hmmm......atleast I agree with you that I am entitled to my opinion. >You seem to have this thing for pushing buttons to test what makes >others tick, well my buttons cannot be triggered that easily!!! How did you come up with such an observation??? Oh, I see...it must be because of the unkind words directed at your friend. Oh well, what else can I say!!! >Tell me something, what is your real reason for being on this list??? >If you asked me, you sure do seem to have a hidden agenda. Come out >and state why you are really a member of Gambia-l!!! Since when did it become a requirement to voice out one's reasons for being a gambia-l member??? Please continue to agree to disagree with me if you will...don't try to be ridiculous. Must I have a hidden agenda to disagree with you. >If you think for a second that you tactics of personal attacks, >intimidation and fact twisting is going to deter me from speaking my >mind, well then think again!!! I can't understand the statement above..care to help a sister?? By the way, you shouldn't feel intimidated by a 23 (almost 24) year old lady sitting behind a computer monitor. >If you think a stinky attitude like yours is what is going to >scare people, oh boy, are you wrong!!! Totally uncalled for!!! It takes someone with a similar attitude to ....... NEVERMIND!!!! I don't want to be disrespectful to the rest of the list. >I suggest that you choose someone else for you mud slinging campaign, >and leave me in peace. That's why I wished you well when you said you gotta run...again please go in peace. >I am in no mood whatsoever, for any confrontation. This is the last >time you will hear from me on this topic. Likewise. I hope you stick by your promise. >For those of you who find this posting offensive, please forgive me. Why decide to send it to a public forum then???? Jianaba. >Ndey Kumba > >PS: I will always go in peace with or without your blessing. So, >please save you blessing for someone who cares. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:39:13 -0500 (EST) From: BAKSAWA@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Obituary Message-ID: <971118203913_-1975053353@mrin41.mail.aol.com> Daddy Sang: As per your request, Alieu's family can be contacted as follows: Momodou Sireh Jallow (Alieu's younger brother) TELEPHONE #: (913) 262-4778 ADDRESS: 5606 Floyd, #1A Overland Park, Kansas 66202 I spoke to my cousin this evening (Rose Oshaia) and she said people have been calling them to offer their support to Momodou Sireh; and praying for Alieu as well. Rose would like to thank everyone on behalf of the family, for their kindness and generousity. Thanks. Awa Sey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:49:11 PST From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: My take as per private postings...... Message-ID: <19971119014911.218.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Gambia-lers, Usually most of us who, by honest mistake, post private notes to the list apologise right away when told about it. One would expect closure since there are other issues at hand to be discussed...but, for someone to cease this opportunity for family glorification is way beyond me!!!! I just feel that gambia-l is not a forum for private correspondence...NO OFFENCE INTENDED!!! Just my two Canadian cents!!! Jainaba. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 21:53:42 -0800 From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com Subject: Re: Re-tragic death of= burial arrangements Message-ID: <34727EE6.863@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gunjur@aol.com wrote: > > Hi list members, > > l just got a call from brother Habib who informed me that he has convinced > the family to go ahead and bury sister Aji Sowe here as opposed to sending > the body home. The burial will be Thursday in Maryland. l will post more > details as l get them. For those brothers in the vicinity, please make every > effort to attend the burial.l am sure this small gesture will mean a lot to > the family. Thanks. > > Jabou Joh. Jabou with the permission of the family I have the details of the arrangements. The sister's body will be taken from the medical examiner's office in Baltimore to the Universal Funeral Home in Dc- 411 Kenedy street Nw- Secondly after the proper washing by muslim women and according to the sunnah of the prophet(pbuh),the funeral will take place at Muslim Community Center at 15200 new hamphshire ave Silver spring Md.Then to the George Washington cemetery at Riggs road Adelphi Md in the Islamic section. Thanks to Alhagi Mohamed Lamara Barry( who was talking to the family and asked me of the alternatives of burrial here) for his support and all the Gambian and non Gambian 's financial support to ensure a descent funeral. We were told one Gambian group gave one thousand dollars today. May allah bless them and all who helped out. Agie Sowe also was lucky to win the green card lottery which would have even helped both her and the husband who as Moe Jallow rightly said is the man who commited the crime (alledgely) Jabou, after the family got the options they decided to bury here ( the sister Fatou sowe got her mother's permission). I think it was a good one and we all should follow the right path unless we have enough money to fly the body home as soon as possible to avoid embalming the body or other unacceptable means. I commend the decision. Habib Diab Ghanim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:06:48 -0800 From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com Subject: Re: Obituary Message-ID: <347281F8.3083@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BAKSAWA@aol.com wrote: > > Daddy Sang: > > As per your request, Alieu's family can be contacted as follows: > > Momodou Sireh Jallow (Alieu's younger brother) > TELEPHONE #: (913) 262-4778 > ADDRESS: 5606 Floyd, #1A > Overland Park, Kansas 66202 > > I spoke to my cousin this evening (Rose Oshaia) and she said people have been > calling them to offer their support to Momodou Sireh; and praying for Alieu > as well. Rose would like to thank everyone on behalf of the family, for > their kindness and generousity. > > Thanks. > > Awa SeyI also spoke to Rose Oshia and the other Moe Jallow (the desceased brother) We had a similar case here in Washington when Momodou Jallow - no relation to Atlanta Moe presumeably- was on life support until he died. Unlike this Kansas case which we all know about Modou Jallow's case was NOT known to any Gambian even his brother found out later. Please keep up the contact and the younger folks remember death can come to anyone of us regardless of age . my message to the younger nephews and neices remember keep in touch before we are forced to find out about you in a similar circumstance. Wasalaam please no offense meant -just a reminder to the younger generation. peace habib ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:01:07 PST From: "EBRIMA JOBE" <jebrima@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re:Introduction Message-ID: <19971119040107.8258.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Hello Members, My name is Ebrima Jobe.I was born in Banjul,but my home village is Ngerr in the North Bank Division not very far from Farafenni.I am studying in Malaysia.I am in my first year in the Economics and Management Faculty. Best regards Ebrima Jobe. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:27:50 -0000 From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Color Message-ID: <B0000017429@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Gambia-L. Just a short comment here: >This man who comes from a country where black people are still referred >to as "neger" and in whose language everything bad is black (svart) >should either put up or shut up. -Actually, as far as I know, the word "neger" is a word coming from the word "negro" meaning Black in Spanish (Now where did I here the word Black used before?!? And from whom ?!?). My understanding is that it is used as a polite word (esp.among older people) for describing a person of dark skincolor. It is rather clumsily I admit considering that the word has negative historical use, but mostly it is not used for anything else than description. -Kind of unfair maybe to ask people of today to change their language based on the assumption that the use of the color black in some hundred years or more old sayings (i.e. black cat,blacklisted) is related to people of dark complextion. -I think we can agree that we all can keep our MODERATED list voice (ref. capital letters/e-mail ethics), and move past the "shut up/put up" theme?! >Black people are justified in patting on the back all blacks who marvel >in any descipline, sports etc. This man's failure to see/accept that >colour was and continues to be the main criteria used in denying blacks >their human rights just goes on to reaffirm the contempt that colourless >people have always had for colourful people. >A. Kabir Njie Nobody questions that there is people around the world that is racists and facists and nazists, and that people of "color", poor people,large groups in developing countries and of different ethnic groups are denied their human rights. I am really just asking the question if the solution to these problems are to keep emphasising on color even if some "white" people seem to do it?! ----------------------------- >Hi G-Lers, >The question of colour is typical to any european country. Where the >colour determine the individuality. It can't be wrong that >Blacks are showing their identity through the issue of their race. >I am not a black activist but i am proud to be black; i show it >everywhere i got the opportunity to. The main reason to that ,it's >that white show to us the colour of the skin has a big significance >for them. I will just give a banal exemple: when you go to a big >restaurant, you automaticaly pay people attention. When I go to a eating place here in The Gambia, people pay me attention to?! Maybe it is because of my lack of color?!?! I actually have some fun in showing my very white legs in public. It always get these funny looks from my fellow Gambian.. >It seem to be common that the White underestimate us, eventhough >their stupid . The main problem is you can't convince them because >they judge you by the colour of skin not by the content of your keen >intellect. What a pitty !!!!!!!!!!!!111 What can I say to such a generalisation?!? >When i see a black being successful , i get incredibly happy: when >Tyson punch a white or Tiger Wood is leading the US open , You can >imagine my happyness. >White people don't need to be afraid of the awakening of black >nationalism, they deserve it. >Peace Chakys.- Black nationalism??? Never heard that one before?! How do you do that?? --------------------------------------- Mr. M.W.Wayne wrote earlier: >I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in the past, (even though I feel that a number of his comments >were tainted with racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a brief comment at this point. >I do hope that everyone has a good day. >M W Payne Dearest Mr. Wayne. I am still waiting for examples regarding your insinuations about me tainting my mails with racism.. I you lack some off my postings I'll be happy to resend it to you.. Best Regards, Torstein The Gambia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:22:11 -0500 (EST) From: MJagana@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Another act of terror Message-ID: <971118232010_139159481@mrin52.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-18 14:20:59 EST, you write: << The assailants sprayed their victims with assault rifles and when they ran out of bullets some of them used daggers to stab to death a number of people, including a police officer." >> The sad part about this is that the attackers are linked or are claimed to be doing this for the sake of Islam. As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS should be totally condemned. A good muslim does not go about killing innocent people. momodou Jagana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:31:10 -0500 (EST) From: Ousman Gajigo <gajigoo@wabash.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Another act of terror Message-ID: <9F02BB7FF9@scholar.wabash.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS >should be totally condemned. That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We should careful in how we present our views. Ousman > From: MJagana@aol.com > Subject: Re: Another act of terror > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS should > be totally condemned. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:41:48 -0500 (EST) From: MJagana@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Hypocrisy or Ignorance...... Message-ID: <971118231315_507797301@mrin84.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-17 23:33:26 EST, you write: << I think uncle Sam is becoming the aggressor in this issue instead of showing good example to future world powers. >> Dear Lamin, I think you have a valid piont to be discussed. I just want to say that if it comes to the middle east the US have a double standard policy. It has a harsh policy for countries like Iraq and Iran. However the state of Israel, is given a much more accomudating policy. This is so outright that Netayahu, does not give a damn about the peace process and he is dragging his feet towards peace. The favouritism is so bad that, here in Montgomerry county (maryland). a jewish boy killed a spanish boy, and later fled to israel. Where he considers a safe haven, the US government has not taken any action whatsoever to pressure Israel to bring the boy to justice. Unlike the actions taken against Libya in regards to the Panam flight the was bombed in scotland. Also you have to understand that Iraq, is a threat to US interest in this case the stability of the middle east ( oil supply), so UNCLE SAM, only looks out for it's interest. I personally do not support Saddam, but i think as a souviriegn nation iraq should stand up and fight ( a fight that will countinue for a lont time) momodou J ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:49:00 -0800 (PST) From: badjie karafa sw <badjiek@unixg.ubc.ca> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: When Intellectuals argue.... Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971118222409.10191A-100000@netinfo2.ubc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks for speaking frankly on the issue of tolerance in our Bantaba. We must learn to debate intellectually on issues without being personal. People can simply ignore or delete postings that they find irritating than putting up an "attitude". Our level of understanding of certain things could be differrent, so we can enlighten each other without getting too offensive. karafa Badjie Path & Lab. Medicine UBC @e, On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Modou Jallow wrote: > Ladies and gentlemen, > > I hope that the exchanges on the subject of "COLOUR" do not get out of > hand. Since I was the one that 'unknowingly' brought it up in my QUOTE OF > THE DAY, I would like to make a brief comment on debates that maybe > sensitive in nature, such as "RACISM" and "COLOUR". > > Before I proceed though, let's consider the following scenario: > > A philosopher, a physicist and a mathematician were looking intently > at an animal in the distance. First the philosopher spoke up. > > " That's interesting," he said. "I didn't know there were black sheep > in this area". > > "Wait a minute" retorted the physicist. "You still don't know there are > black sheep in this area; all you know is that there is a black sheep." > > "How do you prove that?" The mathematician sounded irritated. "All we see, > and therefore all we have proof for, is that there is a sheep in this > area, one side of which is black." > > Well, what can you infer from this intellectual conversation? > > Here we see that there are three different types of people. There are > people who accept things on faith. There are others who accept facts only. > There are still a good number who require proves. We are all so different > and we can only avoid quarrels on this net if we are able to consider > other people's writings as NO nonsense, as difficult a feat as it may be. > Sometimes even when we believe strongly in our ideas and feelings we have > to be willing to listen to others, unless of course it is disgustingly > offensive in which case we make use of our DELETE button. > > I think it is really misleading that the first instinct of a lot of people > on this forum is to attack profusely when they read something they > disagree with or dislike. I think we need to rise above our angered minds > and learn to objectively agree to disagree. I have had the honor and > pleasure (on this forum), of reading the postings of some of the most > knowledgeable Gambians I have ever come across. I have also had the > displeasure of learning that there are some amongst us who may need to > cool down their temper after reading what they think could be an offensive > message. > > No hard feelings. > > Just thinking [aloud] > > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:03:50 GMT+1 From: "Heidi Skramstad" <heidis@amadeus.cmi.no> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: My take.......... Message-ID: <D39DDCC626F@amadeus.cmi.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jainaba, please stop quarreling in such an aggressive way with people on the list. It really make me feel bad. Maybe it hits me even more because you are my daughter's "toma". What used be a beautiful name to me is about to become the name of a troublemaker. Please, try some more peaceful ways of formulating your points. Heidi Skramstad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:03:19 PST From: "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: The slave house in Jangjanbureh (Georgetown) Message-ID: <19971119100342.8446.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain > l went back to Georgetown and boy has it changed. l visited the >house where all of the children in my family were born right on the banks of >the Gambia river, the former Maurel and Prom. The house has sunk in about >four feet or more and l silently stood to the side with years of memories, >good and bad coasting through my mind as the local boys took tourists on a >tour of the house, telling them that the basement under the house was once a >holding place for slaves to be shipped out. Jabou, I visited the basement of the former Maurel and Prom building but I don't belive the stories by these local boys and one has to add a gram of salt to most of it. The guy was trying to tell me that the old scale under the veranda was used to weigh slaves and I told him that he was wrong because this was the same mark/type of scale used for weighing the groundnuts at the various buying stations. We all know that the larger stone building on the opposite side of the street was the slave house and it came as a surprise for me to hear that this Murrel and Prom building had also been used for the slaves. Perhaps there is someone on the list who can shed more light on the history of the capture and transportation of slaves from Georgetown. I am really interested to know. Momodou ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:44:42 +0300 From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: My take.......... Message-ID: <01bcf4d8$24a2e5e0$202385c2@kolls567> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks alot Heidi! I think we can be brutally frank in expressing our point of view without necessarily antagonizing everybody in this village.And keep up the good work down there! Regards Bassss! -----Original Message----- From: Heidi Skramstad <heidis@amadeus.cmi.no> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Date: 19/��/1418 06:02 � Subject: Re: My take.......... Jainaba, please stop quarreling in such an aggressive way with people on the list. It really make me feel bad. Maybe it hits me even more because you are my daughter's "toma". What used be a beautiful name to me is about to become the name of a troublemaker. Please, try some more peaceful ways of formulating your points. Heidi Skramstad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:13:16 -0400 (AST) From: Fafa Sanyang <fsanyang@is2.dal.ca> To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: new member Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95.971119090944.180976A-100000@is2.dal.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Gambia-L, The following Gambian student at Dalhouse want to join the bantaba. Name: Mathew Belford Address:ebbs@is2.dal.ca Can you please list him thanks for your good work Fafa Sanyang ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:02:10 -0500 From: Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: RE: Re-tragic death of= burial arrangements Message-ID: <C69DB1B2BFFBCF11B5D300000000000152DD4B@Cry1.prc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi members, Just as sister Jabou stated, Aji will be buried here tomorrow at 1:30pm in the muslim cemetry on Riggs Road, which is in Hyattsville, MD, I think. May her soul rest in peace. Soffie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:20:16 -0000 From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Another act of terror Message-ID: <B0000017485@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Gambia-L. ---------- > From: MJagana@aol.com > As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS should > be totally condemned. > A good muslim does not go about killing innocent people. > momodou Jagana Should not the above sentence sound more like: "A good muslim does not go about killing." (period) ?!? Torstein The Gambia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:00:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Adama Cham <A.Cham@reading.ac.uk> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Kuntaur Fullah kunda Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971119145329.17875B-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" Thank you for reminding me of Kuntaur I use to visit there in those days when my father was a trader for the U.A.C. At the moment my friend Sorey Ceesay is the head master at the secondary school and Kebba is the frequent visitor and he works for the V.S.O GAMBIA. Bye A.B.CHAM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:04:00 +0100 From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: White sports in White America.... Message-ID: <3473013b.narud@relay.nsw.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt Jai, Whatever the pundits on this list may mean about you, I for one = recognize talent from a distance when I see one. Amid all the talk about = = RACE, which no ** can run away from,especially in Babylon (however = much we try to delude ourselves) I saw in the "White Sports in White = America" a beautiful reflection of an African mind. It was only this morning on my way to work that I happened to read the = piece, which had been in my bag for the past couple of days. When I put = = two and to together I realized that only a white mind (and a **** mind = = - I know exactly where and when to use the word) can fail to see the = literary beauty and potential in this magnificient piece. I plan to spend the rest of the evening (before the football match) = translating the posting in Norwegian so that I can read it to my children= = during the weekend. I hereby request your permission to do so. I'll show= = it to my wife first thing when I get home! AND KEEP STANDING UP! A. Kabir Njie. ---------- From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sent: 14. november 1997 11:08 To: ak; gambia-l; jai_diallo Subject: White sports in White America.... > ---------- > From: Jainaba Diallo[SMTP:JAI_DIALLO@HOTMAIL.COM] > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 1997 8:08:12 AM > To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > Subject: White sports in White America.... > Auto forwarded by a Rule > WHITE SPORTS IN WHITE AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE???? I woke up early that faithful day. After starving for several hours, the doorbell finally rang and the pizza man delivered. BBQ chicken wings and some pizza (yeah!! I like cheese in the crust) finally joined me. I dashed to the fridge to see what is in there to wash down the pizza. Oh no!!! Damn....Budweiser, how did it get there? Oh well, since I was in a happy mood, I didn't care...I'll drink anything. I dived into the pizza, guzzled the budweiser as I cheered on. It was more of an amusing spectacle for I didn't really care about the participants, or the "sport" for that matter. Yet it gave me something to do on a rainy day in beautiful Vancouver. I just sat down eating chicken and pizza, occasionally licking my fingers and watched golf! Yes. Yes, I said golf!!! So you thought it was soccer???? I've often wondered who came up with the "sport" of golf. I never quite got into it. I didn't care about or for Tiger Woods. He's some kid making so much money...while I am a poor full-time student. Who gives a hoot. What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a time in the good old US of A, seeing a black person who was not a caddy on a golf course was like seeing a normal LaToya Jackson. Wow, a black man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what the dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I think it is the best black movie ever produced...bold statement, but hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports. Some things we are just not accustomed to. Golf, for all intents and purposes, has been sold as a "white sport." Ice Hockey, one can understand. But golf has never been deemed a legit sport by true sports buffs. Then again, being a sportsman has little to do with being an athlete, so one can understand it's status. So I thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there black sports and white sports? What are the black sports? Basketball is one of them. It's dominated by blacks. That's a fact. What are the white sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by whites. That's a fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football. Yeah, football, were a black quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball skills than being drafted into the NFL. Charlie Ward of the Knicks readily comes to mind. FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL... The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey. A bunch of white men chasing a black puck, with sticks. Sound familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a black person bungee jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue? Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there are black people here in north america in the first place. And do you ever see a black man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, if we could swim we wouldn't be here no how. You know? So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will. Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on the TV and see a black man kicking ass on a golf course--the last physical bastion of the supremacist mentality (we'll get to the economics one day), then its okay with me. Cheers, Jainaba. P.S: Brother Moe, I do enjoy reading your postings...the the last one was however, kind of ....anyways lets move on. As our mutual brother in the land of the black gold would say "Keep up the good work down there" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no Narud Stokke Wiig AS R=E5dhusgt. 27 N-0158 OSLO NORWAY Tel: +47 22 33 06 70 Fax: +47 22 41 45 01 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:05:51 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Kuntaur Fullah kunda Message-ID: <3473004F.6570@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adama Cham wrote: > > Thank you for reminding me of Kuntaur I use to visit there in those > days when my father was a trader for the U.A.C. At the moment my friend > Sorey Ceesay is the head master at the secondary school and Kebba is the > frequent visitor and he works for the V.S.O GAMBIA. > Bye A.B.CHAM My father was a trader at KTR (short form of Kuntaur)He was known as Pa Ali Diab. Seyfo Dodou Ndow worked for him after coming back from Burma during the second world War and also lived right next to our house. do you remember Mr Kah ? Habib ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:11:12 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Another act of terror Message-ID: <34730190.4C80@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tgr@commit.gm wrote: > > Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> > via Commit > > Gambia-L. > > ---------- > > From: MJagana@aol.com > > As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS should > > be totally condemned. > > A good muslim does not go about killing innocent people. > > momodou Jagana > > Should not the above sentence sound more like: > > "A good muslim does not go about killing." (period) ?!? > > Torstein > The Gambia I agree, Torstein. No one has the right to kill anyone, wether Arab ,Jew, muslim or of any race .Period. We just had a case of A Gambian sister who was mercelessly strangled by her own husband. He had no right to kill regardless of religion or race. Observation The media really got the author of that piece because that is really the intentional in my opinion. Habib ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:10:38 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Help...anyone? Message-ID: <9711191510.AA56788@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good morning G-Lers, Does anyone have (or know where I could get) the latest Census report for the Gambia. Any year after 1990 would be fine. I need ASAP. Please send to my private address below. Thank you. Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:17:03 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Hypocrisy or Ignorance...... Message-ID: <347302EF.7AE7@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MJagana@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-11-17 23:33:26 EST, you write: > > << I think uncle Sam is becoming the > aggressor in this issue instead of showing good > example to future world powers. >> > > Dear Lamin, > > I think you have a valid piont to be discussed. I just want to say that if it > comes to the middle east the US have a double standard policy. It has a harsh > policy for countries like Iraq and Iran. > > However the state of Israel, is given a much more accomudating policy. This > is so outright that Netayahu, does not give a damn about the peace process > and he is dragging his feet towards peace. > > The favouritism is so bad that, here in Montgomerry county (maryland). a > jewish boy killed a spanish boy, and later fled to israel. Where he considers > a safe haven, the US government has not taken any action whatsoever to > pressure Israel to bring the boy to justice. > > Unlike the actions taken against Libya in regards to the Panam flight the > was bombed in scotland. > > Also you have to understand that Iraq, is a threat to US interest in this > case the stability of the middle east ( oil supply), so UNCLE SAM, only looks > out for it's interest. > > I personally do not support Saddam, but i think as a souviriegn nation iraq > should stand up and fight ( a fight that will countinue for a lont time) > > momodou J Momodou it is what we call double standard. We have seen and heard of historically .Example in South africa where it was tought to do as they say Not to as they do -meaning the preachers of the former Aparthiet government. peace Habib ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:17:55 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Another act of terror Message-ID: <34730323.FDF@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ousman Gajigo wrote: > > >As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS > >should be totally condemned. > > That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I > believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not > saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We > should careful in how we present our views. > > Ousman > > > From: MJagana@aol.com > > Subject: Re: Another act of terror > > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" > > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > > > As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS should > > be totally condemned. > > Well said Ousman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:21:24 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Obituary Message-ID: <347303F4.4F9C@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Habib Ghanim wrote: > > BAKSAWA@aol.com wrote: > > > > Daddy Sang: > > > > As per your request, Alieu's family can be contacted as follows: > > > > Momodou Sireh Jallow (Alieu's younger brother) > > TELEPHONE #: (913) 262-4778 > > ADDRESS: 5606 Floyd, #1A > > Overland Park, Kansas 66202 > > > > I spoke to my cousin this evening (Rose Oshaia) and she said people have been > > calling them to offer their support to Momodou Sireh; and praying for Alieu > > as well. Rose would like to thank everyone on behalf of the family, for > > their kindness and generousity. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Awa SeyI also spoke to Rose Oshia and the other Moe Jallow (the desceased > brother) We had a similar case here in Washington when Momodou Jallow - > no relation to Atlanta Moe presumeably- was on life support until he > died. Unlike this Kansas case which we all know about Modou Jallow's case > was NOT known to any Gambian even his brother found out later. > Please keep up the contact and the younger folks remember death can come > to anyone of us regardless of age . my message to the younger nephews and > neices remember keep in touch before we are forced to find out about you > in a similar circumstance. > Wasalaam > please no offense meant -just a reminder to the younger generation. > peace > habib correction Sorry, what I meant to say is that we DID not know about the Washington case as quickly as we know about the Kansas case. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:21:36 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Help...anyone? Message-ID: <9711191521.AA36324@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Good morning G-Lers, > > Does anyone have (or know where I could get) the latest Census report for > the Gambia. Any year after 1990 would be fine. I need ASAP. > > Please send to my private address below. Oops..I forgot to give my email address. It is: mjallow@sct.edu Thanks. Moe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:29:06 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Obituary Message-ID: <347305C2.36E4@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SANG1220@aol.com wrote: > > Is there an account set up for those who want to contribute towards funeral > expenses for our late brother and also please provide a phone number where > one can call. Please do not expect the gambian embassy to help, they probably > can't even afford to pay there staff.(laugh) > Thanks > Daddy Sang Sang I may also add that it is not the responsibility of the Embassy to burry anyone but they can sure help like Tombong used to do. He personally came and asked for any assistance he could do which made a difference. Wether it was personal or the Embassy policy , it was a kind gesture. ( and moral support too-it is not financial always that counts) Habib ps Are you enjoying the snow yet?? hg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:33:25 -0800 From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: When Intellectuals argue.... Message-ID: <34738554.325E@swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! To add to this. It takes a lot of courage to sit down and write something that is to be viewed by hundreds. Plus time and effort. The least we can do is appreciate the effort. If we disagree with something that is written, we have every right to do so. Let=B4s however try to disagree as mature individuals in a respectful manner. I would like to assume that we are all intellectuals (like the person who originally gave this thread its name). Our disagreements would carry more weight if they are presented with counter arguments and proof rather than mere dismissal. = It is impossible to write something that will be favourably viewed by all. The reason is obvious. We all have different backgrounds, education, experience, beliefs etc. My sense can be everybody else=B4s nonsense and vice versa. My sense does not however give me a right to treat everybody else=B4s sense as nonsense. The right thing to do is to put up arguments as to why I believe someone else=B4s arguments are faulty. That will create a healthy environment to debate issues that are important to us as Gambians and friends. Just my pocket change. Thanks. Buharry. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= badjie karafa sw wrote: > = > Thanks for speaking frankly on the issue of tolerance in our Bantaba. W= e > must learn to debate intellectually on issues without being personal. > People can simply ignore or delete postings that they > find irritating than putting up an "attitude". Our level of understandi= ng > of certain things could be differrent, so we can enlighten each other > without getting too offensive. > = > karafa Badjie > Path & Lab. Medicine > UBC > = > @e, > = > On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Modou Jallow wrote: > = > > Ladies and gentlemen, > > > > I hope that the exchanges on the subject of "COLOUR" do not get out o= f > > hand. Since I was the one that 'unknowingly' brought it up in my QUOT= E OF > > THE DAY, I would like to make a brief comment on debates that maybe > > sensitive in nature, such as "RACISM" and "COLOUR". > > > > Before I proceed though, let's consider the following scenario: > > > > A philosopher, a physicist and a mathematician were looking intently > > at an animal in the distance. First the philosopher spoke up. > > > > " That's interesting," he said. "I didn't know there were black sheep= > > in this area". > > > > "Wait a minute" retorted the physicist. "You still don't know there a= re > > black sheep in this area; all you know is that there is a black sheep= =2E" > > > > "How do you prove that?" The mathematician sounded irritated. "All we= see, > > and therefore all we have proof for, is that there is a sheep in this= > > area, one side of which is black." > > > > Well, what can you infer from this intellectual conversation? > > > > Here we see that there are three different types of people. There are= > > people who accept things on faith. There are others who accept facts = only. > > There are still a good number who require proves. We are all so diffe= rent > > and we can only avoid quarrels on this net if we are able to consider= > > other people's writings as NO nonsense, as difficult a feat as it may= be. > > Sometimes even when we believe strongly in our ideas and feelings we = have > > to be willing to listen to others, unless of course it is disgustingl= y > > offensive in which case we make use of our DELETE button. > > > > I think it is really misleading that the first instinct of a lot of p= eople > > on this forum is to attack profusely when they read something they > > disagree with or dislike. I think we need to rise above our angered m= inds > > and learn to objectively agree to disagree. I have had the honor and > > pleasure (on this forum), of reading the postings of some of the most= > > knowledgeable Gambians I have ever come across. I have also had the > > displeasure of learning that there are some amongst us who may need t= o > > cool down their temper after reading what they think could be an offe= nsive > > message. > > > > No hard feelings. > > > > Just thinking [aloud] > > > > Regards, > > Moe S. Jallow > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:14:40 +0300 From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: When Intellectuals argue.... Message-ID: <01bcf506$3d43e580$142385c2@kolls567> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Your this 'Pocket Change" makes a lot of sense.Thanks for the clarity of purpose and keep up the good work down There! Regards Basss! -----Original Message----- From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Date: 20/��/1418 12:29 � Subject: Re: When Intellectuals argue.... Hi! To add to this. It takes a lot of courage to sit down and write something that is to be viewed by hundreds. Plus time and effort. The least we can do is appreciate the effort. If we disagree with something that is written, we have every right to do so. Let�s however try to disagree as mature individuals in a respectful manner. I would like to assume that we are all intellectuals (like the person who originally gave this thread its name). Our disagreements would carry more weight if they are presented with counter arguments and proof rather than mere dismissal. It is impossible to write something that will be favourably viewed by all. The reason is obvious. We all have different backgrounds, education, experience, beliefs etc. My sense can be everybody else�s nonsense and vice versa. My sense does not however give me a right to treat everybody else�s sense as nonsense. The right thing to do is to put up arguments as to why I believe someone else�s arguments are faulty. That will create a healthy environment to debate issues that are important to us as Gambians and friends. Just my pocket change. Thanks. Buharry. -----------------------------------------------------------------------> > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:15:47 -0500 From: globexinc@erols.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: cab drivers's murder Message-ID: <347310B3.218C@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit with permission obtained I submit the following Africa News Service 17-NOV-97 NEW YORK, (PANA, 11/17/97) - A notorious New York street gang called the "Bloods" initiates its new members by requiring them to slash a stranger across the face, or even kill. Three days ago, a Senegalese taxi driver, Elhadji Gaye, was killed by two female members of the bloods gang in what police believe was possibly a part of the gang's initiation rite. Gaye was the latest of 20 taxi drivers from Senegal slain in the city over the past few years. An estimated 20,000 Senegalese immigrants live in the New York City area, many working as taxi drivers, street vendors or electronics and cloth traders. A hardworking devout Muslim who prays five times days and neither smokes nor drinks, Gaye, 33, was shot in the back of the head at 4.40 a.m. Friday after he picked up two women members of the Bloods. Police said he drove the two women around east Harlem for a short time before he apparently began to sense trouble. One woman sat in the front seat, and the other in the back. One of them, Martha Nelson, 17, who goes by the street name "Love", apparently fired the shot. Nelson and her companion, Erica Colon, 22, had the distinctive marking of the Bloods gang burned onto their bodies, the police said. Gaye, who was cruising along the streets of Spanish Harlem on his customary 12-hour night shift, died two months before he was due to return to home to marry his Senegalese sweetheart he had courted over the telephone. He carried a picture of the slim woman sporting a white boubou and braided hair draped with beads who, friends and relatives in said in New York said, he was engaged to three months ago. His cousin, Babacar Gaye, says the body will be flown home this week. Gaye came to New York in 1986 and, like many immigrants from Senegal, became a cab driver. Seven years later, after working long hours and saving every tip while at the same time sending money to his family in Senegal, he became co-owner of his own company, New Ways Car Service. Despite his position as co-owner of the company, Gaye still worked the late shift from 7 p.m. to 7 a.m, seven days a week. He was always working, his friends said, saving money to realize the dreams of a lifetime. He earned between 50 dollars and 100 dollars a night, sometimes 100 dollars. Soon he saved enough to buy a green Lexus LS 300. Gaye, who lived in a three-bedroom apartment in Harlem with four other fellow Senegalese, including his brother, Code N'Daow, was by all accounts a hardworking, kind and likable man. His fellow drivers described him as a friendly man who was always ready to help fellow African immigrants and others with a few dollars. His cousin and partner at the car service, Serigne Gueye, 33, said: "Every time I see him, he was laughing. He was a good friend of mine. Any problem i had, I could go and tell him my situation." Ousane Gaye, a fellow driver but not related to him, added: "I never saw him argue with anybody. He stayed out of trouble. He had no problems in the street, or in the house, or anywhere. He did not smoke or drink and he prayed five times day. He was a good Muslim". William H. Alee Jr, the chief of detectives investigating Gaye's slaying, said "he was a guy working for a living who didn't do anything to anybody. From all indications, he was a decent individual, a hard worker. He was looking to make a living, and they killed him." Another of Gaye's relatives, Djim Cisse, 46, said: "The people who killed my brother, I want them killed. This was a good man." The two gang members, who were arrested early Saturday, have already been charged with Gaye's murder, which has attracted extensive media publicity with New York's Daily News leading with a splash headline "blood money" and a picture of Gaye on the cover in its Sunday edition. In recent months, the Bloods have attracted increasing attention, although city authorities say there is no connection between the local gang calling itself the Bloods and the large, well-organized group of the same name in Los Angeles. At a press conference Saturday, Mayor Rudoph Giuliani said gangs in New York are "an emerging problem" but "not a serious problem the way it has been in other cities, like Los Angeles, in which there are large, large gangs and there is a tremendous amount of crime attributed to the gangs." Search the net: Copyright � 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. A Time Warner Company ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:53:12 -0500 (EST) From: Gunjur@aol.com To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Had enough of Jai Diallo! Message-ID: <971119115312_-1843593411@mrin44.mail.aol.com> Jainaba Diallo, If this little quip was intended for my note reminescing about Georgetown, l will offer no appologies to you. l wrote it especially to share with my brothers and sisters about growing up in our beloved country, and to perhaps invoke some good memories of their own childhoods for them. l think that you seem to mistake this forum as a gangster turf. l am sure there are an abundant supply of ruffians up there in British Columbia (or whereever you are) that you can get together with to vent out your deep seated hostility. l suggest you file down those wild fangs fast sister, they are rather un-becoming. This is a forum for intelligent, civilized and hopefully productive interchange, and you seem to have trouble interacting with people on these levels. If you find most of what we share offensive, l suggest you unsubscribe from the list. Jabou Joh. Gambia-lers, Usually most of us who, by honest mistake, post private notes to the list apologise right away when told about it. One would expect closure since there are other issues at hand to be discussed...but, for someone to cease this opportunity for family glorification is way beyond me!!!! I just feel that gambia-l is not a forum for private correspondence...NO OFFENCE INTENDED!!! Just my two Canadian cents!!! Jainaba. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> Received: from relay10.mail.aol.com (relay10.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.10]) by air05.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:33:14 -0500 Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.1]) by relay10.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id UAA03746; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:50:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id RAA03561; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:50:10 -0800 Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.5]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id RAA25496 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:49:50 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (F57.hotmail.com [207.82.250.143]) by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id RAA29003 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:49:48 -0800 Received: (qmail 219 invoked by uid 0); 19 Nov 1997 01:49:11 -0000 Received: from 142.103.36.177 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:49:11 PST Message-Id: <19971119014911.218.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:49:11 PST Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: My take as per private postings...... Content-Type: text/plain X-Originating-IP: [142.103.36.177] X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:26:00 -0500 (EST) From: Gunjur@aol.com To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Color Message-ID: <971119122559_-1709334752@mrin42.mail.aol.com> l really feel that l must say something in Torstein's defense. l think that the only thing that he seems to be guilty of, is having high ideals . His voice rings among the sane voices throughout the ages, i.e those who, even though realizing that there are indeed racists and racism, aim to direct their focus and that of those around them ,to a less petty definition of their fellow man. Are we looking for positive change, and how then can we get it if we continue to define individuals by the actions of their ancestors and disregard what they are saying to us. l think that we are intelligent enough to judge people by their words and deeds and form our opinions based on that and nothing more. Jabou Joh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:37:17 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Color Message-ID: <9711191737.AA30036@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jabou, you wrote: > Are we looking for positive change, and how then can we get > it if we continue to define individuals by the actions of their ancestors and > disregard what they are saying to us. l think that we are intelligent enough > to judge people by their words and deeds and form our opinions based on that > and nothing more. > > Jabou Joh Sister Jabou, That was very well put. I think it was Lamin Marenah who, on a different topic, said, "Could anybody out there justify why the "sins of the fathers should be visited on the sons" and mind you, cause you might also be justifying the "grandfather clause" in the U.S. segregation history." I think the same justification could be applied your to your argument also. Thank you for your wonderful input. Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:43:50 -0500 (EST) From: Gunjur@aol.com To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Slavehouse at Janjangbureh Message-ID: <971119124349_648416422@mrin86.mail.aol.com> Momodou, l remember that in the basement of the house, there were some metal rings anchored to the cement pillars. l have seen the same things at Goree Island in Senegal. l am not saying that this means there were slaves there, but with the so called slave house so near, one could speculate that those who lived in the house at that time had something to do with it, and perhaps kept some of the captives in the basement. l do not know if Maurel and Prom actually built the house, or if they found it already constructed. It would be interesting to know. l once had a conversation with Dr. Sulayman Nyang about life in Gambia during pre- colonial times and he knew quite a bit of information about the "Sinyaras" for example. Perhaps he can shed some light on this or give references. Jabou Joh > l went back to Georgetown and boy has it changed. l visited the >house where all of the children in my family were born right on the banks of >the Gambia river, the former Maurel and Prom. The house has sunk in about >four feet or more and l silently stood to the side with years of memories, >good and bad coasting through my mind as the local boys took tourists on a >tour of the house, telling them that the basement under the house was once a >holding place for slaves to be shipped out. Jabou, I visited the basement of the former Maurel and Prom building but I don't belive the stories by these local boys and one has to add a gram of salt to most of it. The guy was trying to tell me that the old scale under the veranda was used to weigh slaves and I told him that he was wrong because this was the same mark/type of scale used for weighing the groundnuts at the various buying stations. We all know that the larger stone building on the opposite side of the street was the slave house and it came as a surprise for me to hear that this Murrel and Prom building had also been used for the slaves. Perhaps there is someone on the list who can shed more light on the history of the capture and transportation of slaves from Georgetown. I am really interested to know. Momodou ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> Received: from relay08.mail.aol.com (relay08.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.8]) by air17.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 05:04:43 -0500 Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.1]) by relay08.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id FAA19405; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 05:04:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id CAA24031; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:04:31 -0800 Received: from mx3.u.washington.edu (mx3.u.washington.edu [140.142.13.230]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id CAA24272 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:04:14 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (F55.hotmail.com [207.82.250.141]) by mx3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id CAA24969 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:04:13 -0800 Received: (qmail 8447 invoked by uid 0); 19 Nov 1997 10:03:42 -0000 Received: from 194.19.183.221 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:03:19 PST Message-Id: <19971119100342.8446.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:03:19 PST Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: The slave house in Jangjanbureh (Georgetown) Content-Type: text/plain X-Originating-IP: [194.19.183.221] X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:55:18 -0800 From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Subscription Message-ID: <3473A696.1F2B@swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi List Managers! Marie Gillen has not received any mail for some time. Could you please resubscribe her if she has been taken off the list? Her e-mail address is: mariegillen@swipnet.se Thanks. Buharry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:52:26 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Liberia on the US Message-ID: <9711191752.AA43298@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have also wondered why "no US president had made a state visit to Africa since 1978." Please, don't tell me it is only because of security reasons. Regards, Moe S. Jallow ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LIBERIA'S Taylor says U.S. has duty to support Liberia. "...Liberia's President Charles Taylor says the United States has a duty to support his war-ravaged country which was founded by freed American slaves. In an interview with Reuters Television on Thursday, Taylor, who won elections in July after seven years of civil war, said U.S. President Bill Clinton should show more interest in Liberia and Africa. "The U.S. and Liberia share a common history. Clinton is a great president who has made tremendous progress in his country. He should do for Africa what he has done for the rest of the world," Taylor said, speaking aboard his plane taking him home from Ivory Coast after a visit to Taiwan. Taylor wondered why no U.S. president had made a state visit to Africa since Jimmy Carter in 1978. "I believe it is in President Clinton's interest to support Liberia and I think Liberia could be a shining example to the Clinton administration. Let Liberia be a showcase of his African policy," Taylor said. Freed American slaves founded Liberia in 1847 as Africa's first modern republic. The United States was Liberia's biggest aid donor until the late 1980s, with the West African nation receiving more U.S. assistance than any sub-Saharan state." ---------------------------------------- Source: Reuters ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:13:12 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: The Value of Time (fwd) Message-ID: <9711191813.AA62052@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have always admired the author of this piece though I do no know who he is. It has been sent to the list before but I just want to share it with the new members. Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Imagine there is a bank which credits your account each morning with $86,400, carries over no balance from day to day, allows you to keep no cash balance, and every evening cancels whatever part of the amount you had failed to use during the day. What would you do? Draw out every cent, of course! Well, everyone has such a bank. Its name is TIME. Every morning, it credits you with 86,400 seconds. Every night it writes off, as lost, whatever of this you have failed to invest to good purpose. It carries over no balance. It allows no overdraft. Each day it opens a new account for you. Each night it burns the records of the day. If you fail to use the day's deposits, the loss is yours. There is no going back. There is no drawing against the "tomorrow". You must live in the present on today's deposits. Invest it so as to get from it the utmost in health, happiness and success! The clock is running. Make the most of today.. To realize the value of ONE YEAR Ask a student who has failed his exam To realize the value of ONE MONTH Ask a mother who has given birth to a pre-mature baby. To realize the value of ONE WEEK Ask an editor of a weekly newspaper. To realize the value of ONE DAY Ask a daily wage laborer who has ten kids to feed. To realize the value of ONE HOUR Ask the lovers who are waiting to meet To realize the value of ONE MINUTE Ask a person who has missed the train. To realize the value of ONE SECOND Ask a person who has survived an accident. To realize the value of ONE MILLI-SECOND Ask the person who has won a silver medal in Olympics. Treasure every moment that you have! And treasure it more because you shared it with someone special...special enough to have your time...and remember time waits for no one... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:21:15 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: The Value of Time (fwd) Message-ID: <9711191821.AA58760@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Correction: The first sentence should read: I have always admired the author of this piece though I do no know who he/she is. It could well be a "she". Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:33:12 -0800 (PST) From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Subscription Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9711191033.15025.sarian@groucho> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: X+0JNRnR6f7vsj0x94rJBw== Hi, I just added her. sarian > Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:55:18 -0800 > From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: Subscription > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > Hi List Managers! > Marie Gillen has not received any mail for some time. Could you > please resubscribe her if she has been taken off the list? Her e-mail > address is: mariegillen@swipnet.se > Thanks. > Buharry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:02:56 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: My take.......... Message-ID: <9711191902.AA60484@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Heidi, you wrote: > What used be a beautiful name to me is about to become..... > > Heidi Skramstad Jainaba is a beautiful name indeed. Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:37:47 -0800 (PST) From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Subscription Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9711191037.9197.sarian@groucho> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: QBB8RPo6W3No/CTClsElzA== All, Marie Gillen has been added to the list. Please send in your intro and welcome aboard to gambia-l. sarian > Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:55:18 -0800 > From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: Subscription > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > Hi List Managers! > Marie Gillen has not received any mail for some time. Could you > please resubscribe her if she has been taken off the list? Her e-mail > address is: mariegillen@swipnet.se > Thanks. > Buharry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:13:30 -0800 (PST) From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: new member Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9711191113.5919.sarian@groucho> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: +Iwf/j8EaFTcKOU91TU8Cw== All, Mathew has been added to the list. Welcome aboard and please send in your intro to gambia-l. sarian > Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:13:16 -0400 (AST) > From: Fafa Sanyang <fsanyang@is2.dal.ca> > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: new member > MIME-Version: 1.0 > X-To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > Hi Gambia-L, > > The following Gambian student at Dalhouse want to join the bantaba. > > Name: Mathew Belford > Address:ebbs@is2.dal.ca > > Can you please list him > thanks for your good work > Fafa Sanyang > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:08:38 -0600 From: Keretha Cash <kcash@RBVDNR.com> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>, gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: Color Message-ID: <199711192014.MAA23774@mx4.u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCF4F5.610ABDB0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCF4F5.610ABDB0 Content-Type: text/plain I do believe that if the actions of the sons/daughters of the ancestors remain the same as those of the ancestors, in this age of "enlightenment," the responses would remind the relations that this is a new day and that we are not living in the same time. I have found that treating individuals based on their behavior is much preferable to treating an individual based on their socity's norms. Many times a government's policy is different from the individual's perspective. Peace and Understanding! Keretha > ---------- > From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu[SMTP:mjallow@st6000.sct.edu] > Reply To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 11:37 AM > To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > Subject: Re: Color > > Jabou, you wrote: > > > Are we looking for positive change, and how then can we get > > it if we continue to define individuals by the actions of their > ancestors and > > disregard what they are saying to us. l think that we are > intelligent enough > > to judge people by their words and deeds and form our opinions based > on that > > and nothing more. > > > > Jabou Joh > > Sister Jabou, > > That was very well put. I think it was Lamin Marenah who, on a > different > topic, said, > "Could anybody out there justify why the > "sins of the fathers should be visited on the sons" > and mind you, cause you might also be justifying the > "grandfather clause" in the U.S. segregation history." > > I think the same justification could be applied your to your argument > also. > > Thank you for your wonderful input. > > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:06:15 -0500 From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Message-ID: <19971119.150617.3406.3.nahak@juno.com> Listmanager, please subscribe Michael Gomez at this e-mail address: nahak@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:44:59 -0500 From: Sukai Gaye <sg125909@gwmail.kysu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: When Intellectuals argue.... -Reply Message-ID: <s473179e.029@gwmail.kysu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Buharry, I completely agree with what you wrote. We are all entitled to our opinions but should also learn to agree and disagree with a little touch of class, diplomacy and some maturity. The English language is not so lacking in words and expressions that we cannot air our views in a respectful manner and we should also keep in mind that most of the time, we really don't know who we are talking to on the line and should therefore not get personal with anybody. Vulgarities are cheap and defensiveness is a sign of insecurity. Sukai Gaye. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:50:30 -0500 From: Sukai Gaye <sg125909@gwmail.kysu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Had enough of Jai Diallo! -Reply Message-ID: <s47318e9.041@gwmail.kysu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Jainaba, I don't know you personally, but just to act ignorant and stoop down to your level for just a couple of seconds, I have three words for you, GET A LIFE!!!!!!. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:27:16 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Color Message-ID: <9711192227.AA19854@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you Ms. Cash. I think I can see where you are coming from and I quite agree with you. >From my African American experience in the US, I wouldn't hesitate to say that racism becomes more conspicous the longer one lives in the society. For example, It took me almost 4 years of living in th US to actually feel and understand racially biased comments eventhough I was living in the predominantly white neighbourhoods. The "rookie" from Africa has no first hand knowledge and experience of racism. It is learned (the hard way) as one becomes more cultivated in the society. Most African Americans seemed confused as to why Africans do not take racial comments against them very seriously. It is not that they don't understand, but simply because it is somehow new to them. Could this be a form of ignorance as they seem to think? No, I don't think so. The African was not exposed to white racism, atleast not that he was aware of. In my opinion, this is why Africans seem to be more tolerant to white people than their African American conterparts. They don't just accept the preconceived idea that the "white man is always bad" the moment they see him (After all, they were not directly and originally exposed to racism). Instead they, unlike the African Americans, tend to judge the white man by his character and behavior rather than past actions of his ancestors (i.e slavery, lynching, segregation etc). This is just to reaffirm your point. Thank you. Regards, Moe S. Jallow > I do believe that if the actions of the sons/daughters of the ancestors > remain the same as those of the ancestors, in this age of > "enlightenment," the responses would remind the relations that this is a > new day and that we are not living in the same time. > > I have found that treating individuals based on their behavior is much > preferable to treating an individual based on their socity's norms. > Many times a government's policy is different from the individual's > perspective. > > Peace and Understanding! > > Keretha > > > ---------- > > From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu[SMTP:mjallow@st6000.sct.edu] > > Reply To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 11:37 AM > > To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > > Subject: Re: Color > > > > Jabou, you wrote: > > > > > Are we looking for positive change, and how then can we get > > > it if we continue to define individuals by the actions of their > > ancestors and > > > disregard what they are saying to us. l think that we are > > intelligent enough > > > to judge people by their words and deeds and form our opinions based > > on that > > > and nothing more. > > > > > > Jabou Joh > > > > Sister Jabou, > > > > That was very well put. I think it was Lamin Marenah who, on a > > different > > topic, said, > > "Could anybody out there justify why the > > "sins of the fathers should be visited on the sons" > > and mind you, cause you might also be justifying the > > "grandfather clause" in the U.S. segregation history." > > > > I think the same justification could be applied your to your argument > > also. > > > > Thank you for your wonderful input. > > > > Regards, > > Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:40:09 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Color Message-ID: <9711192240.AA57618@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Corrections: Africans and African Americans in this contex mean Africans who came to America and Black Americans respectively. Note also that I may have sounded too generalistic but I am only speaking about a small number of people (most or many). Thank you. Regards, Moe S. Jallow > > Thank you Ms. Cash. > > I think I can see where you are coming from and I quite agree with you. > >From my African American experience in the US, I wouldn't hesitate to say > that racism becomes more conspicous the longer one lives in the society. > For example, It took me almost 4 years of living in th US to actually feel > and understand racially biased comments eventhough I was living in the > predominantly white neighbourhoods. The "rookie" from Africa has no first > hand knowledge and experience of racism. It is learned (the hard way) as > one becomes more cultivated in the society. Most African Americans seemed > confused as to why Africans do not take racial comments against them very > seriously. It is not that they don't understand, but simply because it is > somehow new to them. Could this be a form of ignorance as they seem to > think? No, I don't think so. The African was not exposed to white racism, > atleast not that he was aware of. > > In my opinion, this is why Africans seem to be more tolerant to white > people than their African American conterparts. They don't just accept the > preconceived idea that the "white man is always bad" the moment they see > him (After all, they were not directly and originally exposed to racism). > Instead they, unlike the African Americans, tend to judge the white man by > his character and behavior rather than past actions of his ancestors (i.e > slavery, lynching, segregation etc). > > This is just to reaffirm your point. > > Thank you. > > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------

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