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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 00:59:34
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Momodou, you made my day
Just the mare thought of it shows a change of focus and perspective.
Those who are expecting to see results in ten years do not understand the implication(s). Yes, this is a step in the right direction, and requires hard-work and perseverance.
The scientific evidence,(in this case)is irrefutable therefore a very strong argument for the teaching of home-language in many European countries. Science is nourished by falsifications, but with appropriate empirical evidence not sentimental rhetoric.
Yes, Momodou, this is a dream come true.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 01:08:01
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turk,
you are back with your night fish but this time you will be forced to eat it alone.
Have you forgotten the saying "put your money where your mouth is"...remember? |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 01:12:53
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Sorry for my strong words Toubab, I just suck at using the appropriate and politically correct words .
All i was saying is that the evidence given was purely from "social" scientist, who are usually poor, dogmatic and waste tons of time on counterproductive and emotional issues. They hate to keep simple things simple.
I am not dismissing the local languages as irrelevant per say, i just KNOW that implementing them would be a practical nightmare... new text books, computers, cellphones, government offices, etc. cost money we do not have.
Furthermore, specific dialects of these languages are spoken by only a few thousand people.
Nigeria, Guinea and some other ethnically fragmented countries tried it, but one would hope that these are not the countries we would look up to IF we want progress. |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 01:24:53
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Prince you're quite selective with your examples what about Burkina Faso, and Ghana where there is an emergence of local languages shaping their cultural identity. Amharic is taught in Ethiopia up to PHD Level, same can be said about Swahili. Academics write books, and produce Learning Resources that is a part of teaching. What might be a nightmare for some might just be a walk in the park for others. It just goes to show how you choose to look at the situation is the glass half full or is it half empty?
Peace
Sister Omega
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Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 19 Oct 2010 01:26:19 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 03:23:48
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quote:
How many countries have Turkish and Kurdish spoken in as major National languages?
Turkish is spoken in Turkey, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan as an official language, as minority language in Germany, Bulgaria, Eastern Iran and Northern Iraq with different dialect in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Xinjian provice of China, Tataristan, Bashkurtistan in Russia. Kurdish is spoken in Kurdistan of Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Iran.
quote:
How many countries have Turkish and Kurdish spoken in as major National languages? Bearing in mind the geograhical boundaries that these languages cross. In comparison the African linguaphone is huge and coupled with that Africans also speak most of the European languages because Africans inhabit most of the countries in the world.
Her English language would help to have access to her Gambian relatives. The language is the only access to her Turkish heritage. I think this is the best possible situation for her to have access to multiple heritages she has.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 19 Oct 2010 04:20:32 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 03:46:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Prince
LOL.... Turk finally woke up on the right side of his bed today... and he is speaking complete and clear sense!
I have been sleeping in the sofa recently. Being alone makes me smarter, I guess.
quote:
Your daughter's case is quite unique and it is not usual to the average Gambian kid...most kids generally have a good grasp of our local languages. The local languages are not threaten and they are not at risk of alienation anytime soon. Contrary to that, the main Gambian struggle is communicating in English or other "business" languages.
My daughter is being taught in English and French now as part of the school system she is in. She speaks Turkish language as I and her relatives speak to her in Turkish and she spends time in Turkey as well. My daughter is not living in Gambia. She does not have opportunity to learn local Gambian languages. I just wanted to see what I would think for my child if I was living in Gambia and as Gambian for a moment. Everyone has different priorities, it is good to have options for the families. Unfortunately, Gambia may not have resources to provide language training in schools. But for me, the English language would be her priority for her academic future while I would still want her to speak the local languages for daily interaction. However, ideal situation would be, Gambian to have a local language as an official language and English should be taught as a Second Language. But that is not the case.
One alternative would be that one of the local language to be taught as elective course and counted as a credit (i.e. Mandinka as a Second Language), but before that UTG should have local language institutions and literacy training at University level so there would be students studying these languages, literacy so there would be actually resources for teaching these languages.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 19 Oct 2010 03:52:42 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 03:59:40
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Janko
When are you going to say something intelligent that relates to reality? There is a disconnect between what you think and what the reality is.
Prince
I am on your side but with the different reason. My argument is if it is affordable and realistic for Gambia. There are already multiple languages in Gambia. Can Gambia afford publishing books, having dedicated teachers? Are there alphabets you can write local languages? Does Senegal have wolof education at schools? I am not sure how realistic to have local languages to became 'official' or 'academic' language! It may not be affordable in Gambia. It is unfortunate, but that is the reality. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 19 Oct 2010 07:26:55 |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 08:20:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Prince you're quite selective with your examples what about Burkina Faso, and Ghana where there is an emergence of local languages shaping their cultural identity. Amharic is taught in Ethiopia up to PHD Level, same can be said about Swahili. Academics write books, and produce Learning Resources that is a part of teaching. What might be a nightmare for some might just be a walk in the park for others. It just goes to show how you choose to look at the situation is the glass half full or is it half empty?
Peace
Sister Omega
Sis, I did not deliberately ignore the countries you mentioned... actually their native language policy is, by and large a failure. Burkina Faso implemented the policy way back in the day but to this day, only 20% of the population could be considered literate.
Ethiopia's has been a disaster, the Amharic policy caused several tribal wars... Eritrea seceded and the conflict eventually led to a bloody tribal war which to this day, threatens the stability of the whole region. The Somalis in Ethiopia are pursuing a low-key but relentlessly bloody tribal war. So are the Oromo. Ethiopia used Amharic since time immemorial and it brought them nothing but chaos and abject poverty.
Ghana does not teach native languages in elementary school... that stopped when the dictator Kwame Nkrumah was ousted and sent to his fellow tyrant in Conakry. Only high schools teach native languages as ELECTIVES.
Tanzania is the only country teaching Swahili and their workforce competitiveness and overall education is a total disgrace relative to the rest of East Africa.
IF people have the time and money to study local dialects as a Second Language then they are most welcome to do so, after all, social scientist study all kinds of yo-yo courses these days.
You mam, are very intelligent.... please stop the emotional "cultural identity" thingy and look at the dust all over this issue.
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"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 09:08:53
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Turk, bringing your daughter up as a bi-lingual child means she will have the thought processes in place to learn other languages very easily as she gets older. So when she goes to Gambia she will probably pick up local languages very quickly and instinctively, unlike those of us that REALLY struggle.
Is your wife's family Mandinka? Or Wollof or another?
You can buy very simple language books at Timbuktu book shop and might even be able to get them on line these days. |
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Momodou
Denmark
11640 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 09:49:02
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Immigrant children being taught in their mother tongue in Denmark or Sweden doesn’t mean that those languages will replace the official languages Danish or Swedish. I have earlier mentioned here that Gambian children are already taught Wollof and Mandinka in Stockholm. The way I see this language issue is not having them replace the official language but as a tool to better prepare children at an early stage in grasping other languages.
I have seen grade nine students upcountry in The Gambia being afraid to speak in English because they are unsure of themselves. If these children have a chance to express themselves in their languages in a school environment at an early stage they would probably not feel shy to speak a foreign language.
quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
..bringing your daughter up as a bi-lingual child means she will have the thought processes in place to learn other languages very easily as she gets older....
Exactly Gambiabev, I agree with you. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 11:28:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Momodou
Many members of the Gambian cyber community have returned back from their studies during the years, so it should not be a big surprise if some issues that have been discussed are being implemented in the real world back home.
Anyway introducing national languages is a step in the right direction. It will definitely help children understand many things early.
How right Momodou. Am hoping to join that list soon. I now spend most of my time in Banjul. |
madiss |
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Momodou
Denmark
11640 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 12:10:32
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| Madiba, it good to see that you peep in sometimes. Best regards. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 13:20:27
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
Turk, bringing your daughter up as a bi-lingual child means she will have the thought processes in place to learn other languages very easily as she gets older. So when she goes to Gambia she will probably pick up local languages very quickly and instinctively, unlike those of us that REALLY struggle.
Is your wife's family Mandinka? Or Wollof or another?
You can buy very simple language books at Timbuktu book shop and might even be able to get them on line these days.
Gambiabev. Thanks for the comments, and your argument makes sense but learning one of the local Gambian language was/is not the plan for her. You are right about the point on how she learn the language, but She is (3) years old and currently her focus in English, French and Turkish. Her relatives speak mainly wolof, however, her uncles, aunts and others do speak English with her when we stay in Gambia. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 19 Oct 2010 13:33:50 |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 15:14:57
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"Sorry for my strong words Toubab, I just suck at using the appropriate and politically correct words."
No need to be sorry,my thoughts on the above are identical to yours,I was confused as this was not the usual style in which you write,I now understand what you mean
quote:
Originally posted by Prince
Sorry for my strong words Toubab, I just suck at using the appropriate and politically correct words.
All i was saying is that the evidence given was purely from "social" scientist, who are usually poor, dogmatic and waste tons of time on counterproductive and emotional issues. They hate to keep simple things simple.
I am not dismissing the local languages as irrelevant per say, i just KNOW that implementing them would be a practical nightmare... new text books, computers, cellphones, government offices, etc. cost money we do not have.
Furthermore, specific dialects of these languages are spoken by only a few thousand people.
Nigeria, Guinea and some other ethnically fragmented countries tried it, but one would hope that these are not the countries we would look up to IF we want progress.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 19 Oct 2010 15:16:28 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 15:30:25
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As painful as it is, but I have to agree Prince on his points. OK let us have some assessments?
Is there a 'script' to write local languages? Using foreign script is not easy task. For example, when Turkish Language is written in Roman Alphabet English letters alone can't be enough. We have, for example, Ç,Ö,ç,ö,ü and 4-5 non-english letter in order to spell the Turkish word right in roman alphabet. Are there any problems to write different languages in a alphabet. We are talking about Fula, Wolof, Mandinka, Jola, Aku, Serere. If there was one language, it would be much more realistic. Is there standard way of spelling the words in English. Is there any institution to monitor and standardize this? Any institution for grammar, vocabulary etc? Are there any i.e. Wolof to Wolof dictionary published?
Who is going to publish books? I have seen a few books in a book store and mostly, they were photocopy.
Are there any budget for this? What is the per student budget of education budget?
Are there any faculty to study different linguistic? Are there any faculty for i.e. 'wolof teacher'?
Would this encourage tribalism?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 19 Oct 2010 15:34:33 |
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