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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Dec 2009 : 16:40:02
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This sorry tale of woe of a young boy,but lucky for him he appeared before a magistrate with common sense (maybe he has taken lessons from His honour Judge Moses Richards !) anyway have a read:
http://thepoint.gm/africa/gambia/article/man-pleads-guilty-for-attempted-suicide
Tuesday, 15 December 2009
A man was yesterday arraigned at a Magistrate Court in Brikama, charged with attempting to commit suicide.
Demba Secka, aged, 20 pleaded guilty to the charge.
Narrating the facts, Cadet ASP Samteh, the Prosecuting Officer told the court that it was on 9th December 2009, at Brikama Misira, when Demba was seen loitering around a place for almost an hour. Samateh said when he was asked by a passer-by as to what he was doing there, he did not answer.
He narrated that after sometime he took off his shirt and tied his neck with it and later hanged himself on a fence wall until he fell unconscious. He added that two police officers who were at the time conducting traffic checks along the roadwere informed that someone had hang himself on a wall, and they rushed to the scene.
According to him, when asked by the officers why he wanted to commit suicide, he replied that he is suffering from a sickness and anytime it attacks him, he acts unconsciously.
Prosecutor Samateh further narrated that the accused had further informed the police that he was given some goods to sell in Senegal by his mother, who strictly warned against any misuse of the goods.
Having realised that he did run into a loss, coupled with the stress of the sickness, he said he had no other choice but to hang himself.
At that juncture, the Presiding Magistrate, Emmanuel Amadi, said that it was very premature to assume that the accused is guilty, and subsequently ordered the police to invite the accused's parents for an interview concerning the state of his health.
The case was then adjourned to 21st December 2009.
Author: Abdoulie Nyockeh & Yai Dibba
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 07:43:41
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| Interesting, but serious criminal cases like this,it is really not unusual to require prove of guilt even when the defendant pleads guilty; except perhaps in some common law jurisdictions. Whenever a person faces potential loss of freedom especially by physical custody (imprisonment), prove of guilt is often not determined by a wave of the hand. |
Edited by - kayjatta on 16 Dec 2009 08:04:18 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 11:17:39
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Kay, whilst I agree in principle with what you have written,I think that your statement "serious criminal cases like this" cannot be justified, this young man is accused of attempting to kill himself,to be tried by a court of law for that offence,a law that I consider to be totally wrong.Consider that to destroy your own life,is the most final thing that you can do to yourself,leaving aside the faith implications of the next world and that God gave you life so its not yours to destroy.This boy was so very concerned that his mother would be so angry that he had not done as his mother bid him when she had
" strictly warned against any misuse of the goods",and the fact that the boy had stated that he is "suffering from a sickness and anytime it attacks him, he acts unconsciously." All this to me indicates that the boy appears mentally ill and as such should be given treatment,a course of action that the magistrate is hopefully considering instead of a period of incarceration in a prison for an offence.I am not saying that the boy should not have been brought before the court as he has apparantly broken the law of The Gambia.This story shows up very clearly a gaping hole in the Gambian health service.
quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Interesting, but serious criminal cases like this,it is really not unusual to require prove of guilt even when the defendant pleads guilty; except perhaps in some common law jurisdictions. Whenever a person faces potential loss of freedom especially by physical custody (imprisonment), prove of guilt is often not determined by a wave of the hand.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 11:34:07
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Toubab, you and I are on the same page here. let me clarify.
1. Suicide/attempted suicide is a crime.
2. The accused made a guilty plea. He pleaded guilty by confessing.
3. By law he has waived a trial and so he should be punished in accordance with the law.
4. By "in serious criminal cases like this", I didn't mean that this case is too serious to let him go. What I mean is that suicide is like murder rape, buglary, etc. A category of serious crimes that often require jail time. Therefore, the prosecution does not often get a blank cheque with a guilty plea from the defense or accused.
Now here is the point. The court, because of its awareness that some accused persons confess to crimes they have not actually committed due to mental illness or coercion, require an investigation (corpus delecti rule-please correct me if I am wrong)to still prove the accused actually did what he confessed to have done.
In the case of this guy, mental illness is likely to come up and he may end up receiving mental health evaluation and treatment. Most suicidal people are severely depressed. Without further inquiry to ascertain the facts of his confession, the court would take his guilty plea at face value and thus impose punishment, which in many cases result in miscarriage of justice... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 16 Dec 2009 11:42:14 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 11:57:40
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Mental illness is a legitimate defense to murder/suicide. Therefore, the accused should not have pleaded guilty in the first place. He should have pleaded 'not guilty' by reason of insanity. By pleading guilty, he has given himself up for punishment; but it is clear here that the court did not want to punish him. That is the reason for the further investigation, hoping that his alleged mental illness and depression will be ascertained so that he could be treated instead of incarcerated. Makes sense?
NOTE: Kayjatta is not an attorney and has no legal qualifications. I hope those more conversant with the law will further clarify this matter for the benefit of all. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 13:12:40
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Kay, here again I must take issue with you on this one point,
"What I mean is that suicide is like murder rape, buglary, etc. A category of serious crimes that often require jail time."
If you attempt to commit suicide,you are hurting no one but yourself,in all the other cases you are offending against others, either personal or property,so why lock someone up ?
If you have commited suicide, you are dead, you are no more (second world not included)therefore you cannot be imprisoned.
The law is technical and its the job of lawyers to take the bits from it that either prove or disprove a case,whoever is the best, defence or prosecution wins,all a bit of a gamble but very little to do with Justice and truth,more about money and a very agile mind to convince people that what you say is right.
I would be quite interested if Sister Omega,if she is still about would give her views.
And yes, I understand your rider,which equally applies to me.NOTE: Kayjatta is not an attorney and has no legal qualifications. I hope those more conversant with the law will further clarify this matter for the benefit of all. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 13:25:32
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In jurisdictions where suicide/attempted suicide is a crime, there are considerations beyond the individual who killed himself. There is public policy consideration and the general damage to the society. Suicide often does not happen in a vacuum, there are often related criminal actions and parties.
In essence, no one has a right to take his/her own life, for no one's life belong to him/herself alone. It belongs to the society as well... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 16 Dec 2009 13:26:18 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 13:27:39
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Kay, I read your words.Thanks
quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
In jurisdictions where suicide/attempted suicide is a crime, there are considerations beyond the individual who killed himself. There is public policy consideration and the general damage to the society. Suicide often does not happen in a vacuum, there are often related criminal actions and parties.
In essence, no one has a right to take his/her own life, for no one's life belong to him/herself alone. It belongs to the society as well...
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 15:06:43
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And still more on Mental illness and the courts, this time the magistrate ordered that he should be evaluated at RVH, by who I wonder as there is no Psychiatrist in Gambia.
http://observer.gm/africa/gambia/article/convict-ordered-to-keep-the-peace-1
Wednesday, 16 December 2009
One Cherno Jallow 33 was on Monday convicted and sentenced by Magistrate Effimi of the Brikama magistrates court.
The convict was charged with threatening violence. According to the particulars of the offence, the convict on the 28th of November 2009, at Mayork villagein Foni Bondali district, threatened to kill his mother, Fatou Sanneh, with an iron rod and a pestle.
He pleaded guilty.
In his mitigation plea, the convict said that he is an Islamic teacher and teaches for free. He urged the court to temper justice with mercy. In his judgement, Magistrate Effimi alluded that looking at the accused, it is obvious that he is mentally imbalanced.
He ordered to him to keep the peace for a period of 12 months or in default to pay the sum of D5,000 to the state. He further ordered the prosecutor to refer the convict to RVTH, for medical attention to check his mental capacity.
Author: by Ebrima M Kanuteh
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2009 : 06:57:58
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| Good! They must not wait until he actually kills someone before taking action. If he pleaded guilty and mental illness is suspect, he should receive mandatory mental evaluation and treatment I suppose... |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2009 : 12:05:38
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Kay you were going to write something else ?
"I suppose..."
quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Good! They must not wait until he actually kills someone before taking action. If he pleaded guilty and mental illness is suspect, he should receive mandatory mental evaluation and treatment I suppose...
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 06:57:02
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
Kay you were going to write something else ?
"I suppose..."
quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Good! They must not wait until he actually kills someone before taking action. If he pleaded guilty and mental illness is suspect, he should receive mandatory mental evaluation and treatment I suppose...
Yes, almost all the mentally ill (insane) people I have known and seen do not often believe (without some doubt)that they are mentally ill.
Someone who appears in court charged with criminal assault or attempted murder, without counsel and pleads guilty by claiming insanity arguably seems very sane. He may afterall knew exactly what he was doing. Please note that insanity is different from mental illness. Insanity is a legal question while mental illness is a medical question. Courts may not necessarily find insanity where mental illness is. But if there is basis for his insanity subsequent to the mental illness he claims, then he should be evaluated and treated accordingly. I suppose... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 18 Dec 2009 06:59:10 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 11:04:28
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An interesting point,
"Please note that insanity is different from mental illness. Insanity is a legal question while mental illness is a medical question. Courts may not necessarily find insanity where mental illness is. But if there is basis for his insanity subsequent to the mental illness he claims, then he should be evaluated and treated accordingly. I suppose... "
Soooooooooooooo.......... someone who is "insane" is not suffering from "mental illness" ?
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 11:09:39
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| Not necessarily; I suppose... |
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