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Momodou
Denmark
11733 Posts |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Jan 2012 : 23:49:48
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Momodou, I am yet to see such a thrilling and flavoured account of history. At first, I thought of browsing without paying attention to detail. Once started, it was a push to the end.
I think Janko and others will fine this interesting |
Karamba |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 09:12:49
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Thanks Momodou - as Karamba said if you start reading
you can't stop.
I think the historians herein will put Wright's article
in perspective for us.
Wright did ask some of the most important questions about
identity and folklore in the Senegambia. Do we use language
as a category to understand ourselves or do we use tribe and
ethnicity to confuse ourselves, even more. I think we stand
to gain more by understanding ourselves as language-groups
than ethnic or tribal groups.
Who is the Jali?
Who were the Kaabunkas?
How many languages where spoken in Kaabu?
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 11:36:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Momodou
Janko, here is some history for you and other historians to do analysis on.
Beyond Migration and Conquest: Oral traditions and Mandinka ethnicity in Senegambia - History in Africa Vol.12 - Donald R. Wright [1985]
Thanks Momodou, this is quiet an interesting piece of research.
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Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 08:23:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Janko
Thanks Momodou - as Karamba said if you start reading
you can't stop.
I think the historians herein will put Wright's article
in perspective for us.
Wright did ask some of the most important questions about
identity and folklore in the Senegambia. Do we use language
as a category to understand ourselves or do we use tribe and
ethnicity to confuse ourselves, even more. I think we stand
to gain more by understanding ourselves as language-groups
than ethnic or tribal groups.
Who is the Jali?
Who were the Kaabunkas?
How many languages where spoken in Kaabu?
Senegambia –Language groups not tribe/ethnic groups
Marjo is a Gambian by birth/nationality, a Belgian citizen, speaks, Mandinkaa, Poularr, Wolof, Jola, Serrahullé, English and French. Marjo defines himself as a speaker of a language not a member of a tribe or ethnic group. Marjo’s ability to speak many languages gives him expansive access.
We are language groupings not tribe and ethnic groupings. We are language groups because when a Mandingka settles and builds his family in a Serrahule settlement, he becomes serrahullenized in the same manner a Pouloh settling in a Wolof settlement becomes wolofnized. The categories of tribe and ethnicity are misleading in depicting our history to understand who we are and where we come. Language rather than tribe or ethnicity is what describes our relationship in Senegambia. Touray, Kamara, Jamme, Njie, Saane, Baldé, Jallow are family-names found in all language groups showing how deeply interwoven we are as a people. Language as an analytical concept gives us a perspective that explains our relationship far beyond the concepts of tribe and ethnicity.
Clearly we speak Jola when conducive, Fula, Wolof etc., when it serves us well.
The fluidity of identity is found in many professions in Senegambia, for example one family-name can be found within the numóol (blacksmiths) in one place and in another within the karankéel (leatherworkers) and in the third place within the jalóol (bards).
Lalo Kebba Draamé is one of the greatest Jali coraplayers in the region but Daraamé is also found in karankéel, numóol, mooróol (marabous) and julóol (merchants). This dynamic flow of identity is common in all works of life and professions in Senegambia. The Saanés, Maanés, Jaatas, Jaajus are now lifting up their Jola heritage in the effort of reshaping and tuning in their identity to our times. Whiles 20 years ago those family-names were identified with Mandingka because it was good for business. This clearly indicates how insignificant the notion of both tribe and ethnicity are in our social living in Senegambia; hence tribe and ethnicity are aspects that fade away with need, settlements and time. Interestingly Mandingkaa as a language is found only in the Senegambia region. Is it because Mandingkaa is a hybrid, like Aku?
That it is a creolization of the languages in the Senegambia region with the languages from the great Empire of Mali. Is it possible that Mandingkaa as we know it is a new creation enabling communication between peoples with different language backgrounds, a lingua franca like Wolof has or is becoming? Who are Mandingka and what is Mandingka are interesting questions.
Therefore we should be mindful in our quest not to perceive ourselves from an ethnic and or tribal angle but rather from a lingual perspective.
The Jali have created a cosmic reality for us
If Kaabu or Mandeng did not exist, the Jali have created it. One should also be wary of oral tradition and the Jali’s genius of history, not just because word passed from mouth to mouth through generations loses some vital information intentionally or unintentionally, but also of the narrator. Let’s not forget to scrutinize the source of the Jali epic and its intention and purpose.
The idea of migration and conquest has been drummed deep in our self-understanding and perception by the folklore. Some of the well-known folklore in the Senegambia is narrated by the Jali, who is popularly referred to as the conserver of our history and genealogy.
The Jali’s performance and presentation of epics is an inherent skill passed from parent to offspring for generations. The Jali performs heroic stories and history with a big potion of nostalgia that mobilizes sentimentality. The Jali is the composer, performer and validator of the epics. The Jali plays an important role in the King’s court, in war, in the mongering of marriage, peace and other functions in society without any control instance.
The question we never ask or ask very seldom is the meaning of these epics not only their factuality but also the intention of performing them. They are performed in particular space and time to have maximum effect. What contexts are these epics performed, for whom and why are questions that need to be answered to have full understanding of their meaning in our self-understanding and history.
The Jali is irresistible especially in the moment of performance. It is here that all the knowledge and skills the Jali has gathered over the years come together.
To create a hypnotic chamber where the listener is taken through a suggestive journey and come out on the other side changed. Like a ritual after going through it you are never the same. The epics of Kelefaa Saané, Jankey Wali, Sheriff Seedy, Masaane Ceesay are in the core of the traditional repertoire of the Jali, accompanied by cora, baloo, female and male voices. The style of performance involves singing and the act has a beginning and an end, intervals and other gimmicks that have specific functions in different parts of the epic. Voices and instruments are sometimes loud, at times the melodic parts take the lead, the level of the narrator’s voice in deferent parts are all calculated and arranged to maximize effect. The part of the epic that is recited is explicitly filled with words of praises. This is also the part where heroic deeds are elevated and given meanings that are admirable and touching. Also it is in this part genealogy is recited. These are genre specific structural ingredients of Jaliyaa, without which there is no Jali.
Kelefaa Saane a popular legendary warrior of Kaabu is narrated by the Jali as a Mandinka hero.
It is also traditionally the first song a young Jali learns at the beginning of their Jaliyaa.
In Kelefaa the Jali want us to belief that Kelefaa’s virtues reflect what it means to be Mandinka.
Whiles Kelefaa’s proficiency and quality derive from the political, social, moral, and spiritual founding of the Kaabunkas. Mandinkaa is not the only language spoken in Kaabu, unless if Mandinkaa is the total sum of all languages of Senegambia and that anyone can be Mandinka. In that sense being a speaker of Mandinkaa is situational, circumstantial and not inherent, an individual choice that one does whenever it serves one well and is negotiable pending on the need at the time.
Originally these epics are composed for a patron; a King, a prince, a kandaa and nganaa (influential men and women). As time goes by the only constant ingredient of the composition is the melody and arrangement whiles the patron(s) is replaced with a new one. For example the melody and arrangement of the song of the Kelefaa Saané epic composed to praise Kelefaa’s heroic deeds remains basically the same but Kelefaa; the original patron can be replaced by Kairaba who would inherit all the virtues of Kelefaa. Hence, human existence, according to the Jali, is beyond the reign of one king, Kings come and go but society remains. When time changes the Jali changes with it, the pagan Kings, warriors, princes and princesses have become clerics, laments the Jali. This leaves the Jali with no choice but to create new patrons, hence the Jali is faced with the task of making a living. So basically everybody and anybody is a potential prince or descendent of a king in the new folklore.
A well known and narrated account about the war between the Fulbes and the Kaabunkas ends with the smuggling out of the Jali from the besieged fortress of Kaabu.
The reason being someone has to narrate how the war ended for the world and the generations to come. What the Jali tells us about that war is that it was a stalemate, there were no victors. That, when the fortress was surrounded by the Fulbe and the Kaabunkas had no way of escape, they resorted to committing collective suicide. The Kaabunkas opened the gates of the fortress to let the Fulbe in.
When the enemies marched in victoriously the young women committed suicide by throwing themselves into wells saying they would not be slaves in Futa. When the fortress was full to the brink the Kaabunkas set the armoury ablaze and everyone inside the fortress was killed including the Kaabunkas. This is why, according to the Jali there were no victors in the war between Futa and Kaabu. The question is how the Jali knew this was how the war ended hence; the Jali was not there to witness the atrocity. Was the Jali’s narration dictated, was it a narration to protect the Kaabunkas from the embarrassment of defeat, or was it all an artistic creation of the Jali?
Who were the Kaabunkas, where they Mandingka, Jola, Wolof, Serer, Fulbe, Balanta or was it all of them together that constitute the Kaabunka.
It’s important to know your history but not by enquiring into “your-being” with the help of someone else’s language and worldview. Maybe we should understand the Jali’s freedom or rather act of replacing the patrons in the epic of Kelefa Saané with Mandinka, Pouloh, Jola, Wolof, Serrer, Serrahullé patrons as a means of emphasizing the similarities.
By letting us share and have pride in the same legendary epics they forge us into one.
In this way the Jali plays the role of a unifier, an important role in the creation of Senegambia.
Moreover, by placing our great grandfathers in the same legendary epics means we share the same story of origin.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 26 Feb 2012 08:29:06 |
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Momodou
Denmark
11733 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 10:31:14
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| Janko, I hope you share your recent article with a wider Gambian public, both the online and printed media back home. The polarisation by ethnicity is mostly by the educated elite. The Jalis have a big role to play in unifying as stated in your piece. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 13:31:47
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Janko. Your article is mind blowing and hope Mathew K. Jallow, certain elites, clan and destructive forces playing the tribal card in Gambian politics will learn, give-up and change tactics; as tribalism has no place in modern society, is a failed policy and wrong strategy 
Recent President and general elections; we heard advocacy very loud and clear and strategy/tactics peddled on a foundation and premise that "Mandinka is largest constituency" and for UDP leader Lawyer Ousainou Darboe, its militants believed that its about "constituency power" and "blaming Mandingoes for electing Jammeh"; including "Jammeh jolanisation" and other crude counter accusations |
Edited by - kobo on 26 Feb 2012 13:49:59 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 10:43:35
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Comments
DUMBALIBOLONG
February 26, 2012 at 10:35 pm
Mr camara you cannot change this history and do not accused the jalibas,before kabu exist mandinkas existed more than two thousand years.No one can change that is longtime,and very intresting and full of clarity.
kansala
February 26, 2012 at 11:19 pm
you cant change history please give us a break nonsence nonsence nonsence you have to go back to rots and leaen more
Jiborisateh
February 27, 2012 at 12:36 am
What I know from my History lessons is that Mandinka/ Mandingo are a people found not only in the SeneGambia region (Gambia, Senegal, Mauritania, and Guinea Bissau) but in Burkinafasso, Liberia, IvoryCoast, Sierraleone, Ghana, Mali, Guinea Conakry. The language is found in Arabic and Portuguese a lot.
Bankotanka
February 27, 2012 at 1:19 am
Please Mr Kamara Marjo live the sleeping dog to lay down. Don’t talk of something u are not verse of, u may end of carying misinformation ok.
Jarju Baa
February 27, 2012 at 1:20 am
This guy is really confused!!
Thanks that we have learnt contributors!!!
Stupid stupid stupid go and rot in hell!!!
This piece is a trash!!!
Malick
February 27, 2012 at 2:08 am
“Interestingly Mandingkaa as a language is found only in the Senegambia region. ” Well Kamara, it said the Mandinka language is a Mandé language spoken by millions of Mandinka people in Mali, Senegal, The Gambia, Guinea, Côte d’Ivoire, Burkina Faso, Sierra Leone, Liberia, and Guinea-Bissau and Chad. I don’t understand why you said it is only found in Senegambia. However interesting reading.
Morro
February 27, 2012 at 7:04 am
An interesting piece. Oral history is prone to manipulation. We must learn to be open minded and not defensive to issues of national and historical relevance. This should only trigger our curiosity to consult other available materials to gain better undersatanding of issues. Outright condemnation is not schorlastic
yahya
February 27, 2012 at 7:31 am
this man is total mad when he said mandinka is found in only senegambia region thats is stuppid in the west africa is more than, 45- milion people speak mandinka i can not evend name all doess country mandinka is the must popula language in west africa dont you know that go back and learn more about history please respect mandinka if you dont please shut your big mouht up you talk like a silly man who know nothing about history i respect all language speakin in gambia and senegale wolof is only language speak in gambia and senegale only apart from there nobody speak it in africa but i respect it i dont know how to speak it but its language which is found in our country gambia, may god blesse gambia and its people thank you all see you next time,,
Karangdingo
February 27, 2012 at 7:49 am
“In this way the Jali plays the role of a unifier, an important role in the creation of Senegambia. Moreover, by placing our great grandfathers in the same legendary epics means we share the same story of origin.”
Mandinkaa is a dialect of the Mande language group found only in Senegambia, just like other Mande dialects are specific in particular geographical areas.
kanka mansa musa
February 27, 2012 at 7:56 am
i dont evend want to coment on this craz man topic i know you mad and mad and stuppid, but please respect all the tribe and thier language dont come on paper and you want to playe with people tribe and thier language so next time please know what to said okey this mandinka language speak by milions of people in africa if you dont know go back to history and learn more ok dont act like a animal act like a himan biens i dont bleme you thats why you are stuppid nonsense,
Fodaykaba
February 27, 2012 at 7:59 am
This is a Big lesson for all Mandingos and Mandinka speakers. If you dont pespect your language and yourself as a Mandinka an insane individual like Mr Kamara will teach with his gabage history. If you are Mandinka, Fula, Wolof, jola, Bainunka, manjako, batanta etc……………speak your language to to your family. We need all these languages.
These languages are our identities. The Gambia is not Senegal. We spaek many languages and we should respect each others language.
Kaabu
February 27, 2012 at 8:30 am
Don’t confuse, Manden with Mandinkaa.
Mandinkaa is a sub-group/dailect within the Mande language.
DUMBALIBOLONG
February 27, 2012 at 9:15 am
Mr camara,this is not an issue somebody can fool mandinka about.I have seen or red so many hipocrite writings about this history since yaya came to power.If yaya is fighting against mandinka,but even yaya wife is a mande,in guinea they susoor sooso.If you listen careful as a mande you can hear sooso is almost the same language.English,scotish,wales irish,australian american,they all speak english but different dialects but some fool do not know that.Lets stop this hipocricy.YAYA now gambian people knew that this man is for himself.
DUMBALIBOLONG
February 27, 2012 at 9:33 am
Mande speakers can be found in senegambia, guinea guinea bissau,mali,ivory coast,ghana,burkina faso,niger,nigeria,benin equatorial guinea, togo,gabon liberia mauritania.Mr camara you are very wrong,camara is a mandinka too,but camara can be a jola,fula,soosu,balanta or sarhuleh,so mr camara am sure if you really know your history you will not talk like this.
Fanta Hydara
February 27, 2012 at 10:35 am
It seems many of you misunderstood the message of Mr Kamara. Mandingka as it is spoken in Senegal and Gambia is quiet different from other Malinke or Mandingka spoken in other countries, Liberia, Seirra Leon, Ivory Coast etc. How many of you can understand the Jula or Manden words of Malians, Guineans, Ivorians etc?
Mr Kamara was therefore coming from scholarly study, not emotional sentimental reaction. Also, a recent study higlighted that, the original inhabitants of the Senegal, Guinea Bissau and Gambia region adopted Mandingka culture and tradition and later adopted the language as their tribe. Hence, the original Madingkas who travel from the heart of the Mali empire were few, but because they came with influence and an agenda to spread there area of control, many willingly adopted the language. This is why, the spoken mandingka in the Gambia and Senegal is more contaminated and borrowed than those found in other countries. Again, since the migration of Mandingkas originated from Mali end, the Mandingka family names found in Mali can be found the Gambia, however, further analysis shows that, the later additions to the Mandingka tribe or as Kamara said Language group cannot trace their family names to Mali, Guinea, Ivory Coast or any other Mandingka territory. The same is true for Fulas and Wollofs. Settlement now largely define belongings. Kamara is not disparaging Mandinkas, because he is Mandinka himself, but only explaining away the way we are bind together. How many Fulas now only understand and speaks Wollofs? What would you call those people?
bour banjul
February 27, 2012 at 3:33 pm
Let us simplify. Sonko is not mandinke, sonkos origin a fula. johne is not wollof, johne origins a mandinke and royal mandinke too.but speak wollof.proud mandikas but speak wollof.
Malick
February 27, 2012 at 5:39 pm
Fanta Hydara
YOU MADE IT CLEAR BY EXPLAINING…THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MENDE AND MANDINKA. IT SINK NOW…..
I HOWEVER DONT READ MORE ABOUT THE GELEWAR WHENEVER KAABU IS MENTION.
AS kAMARA SAID “This clearly indicates how insignificant the notion of both tribe and ethnicity are in our social living in Senegambia; hence tribe and ethnicity are aspects that fade away with need, settlements and time”
WE NEED SUCH RESEARCH TO DISCOURAGE OPPORTUNISTs LIKE YAHYA JAMMEH USING “TRIBAL” SENTIMENTAL PROPAGANDA TO CLING TO POWER. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 27 Feb 2012 19:22:40 |
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toubab1020
12311 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 20:00:20
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15 pages now,yes folks still a very hot burning topic this,TRIBALISM IS THE EVIL.
I personally think a bit of a stumbling block to developing nationhood in Gambia. i.e. making everyone proud to be a Gambian first and foremost.
OK ,OK,............... I am out of this one now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR_9Iis23lo  |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 27 Feb 2012 20:01:04 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 21:37:17
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quote:
"The fluidity of identity is found in many professions in Senegambia, for example one family-name can be found within the numóol (blacksmiths) in one place and in another within the karankéel (leatherworkers) and in the third place within the jalóol (bards).
Lalo Kebba Draamé is one of the greatest Jali coraplayers in the region but Daraamé is also found in karankéel, numóol, mooróol (marabous) and julóol (merchants)."
"Originally these epics are composed for a patron; a King, a prince, a kandaa and nganaa (influential men and women)."
Janko! On above quote, these names stereotyped prejudice or caste system, part of ethnic traits and tribal customs (that may be offensive or derogatory in certain instances), but I don't think there is no logical reasoning to promote or justify them as eternal proper social order? Any account or stories are pure myth for these
- numóol (blacksmiths)
- karankéel (leatherworkers)
- jalóol (bards)
- mooróol (marabous)
- julóol (merchants)
- a patron; a King, a prince, a kandaa and nganaa (influential men and women)
They are all mind-set (crude culture) terms; that are as worst as using inferior words (except for superior "kandaa and nganaa), to a a victim of prejudice similar to that suffered by blacks in racism words like "******" etc or a person who is economically, politically, or socially disenfranchised |
Edited by - kobo on 27 Feb 2012 23:34:03 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2012 : 10:00:55
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quote:
Janko! On above quote, these names stereotyped prejudice or caste system, part of ethnic traits and tribal customs (that may be offensive or derogatory in certain instances), but I don't think there is no logical reasoning to promote or justify them as eternal proper social order? Any account or stories are pure myth for these
.......
They are all mind-set (crude culture) terms; that are as worst as using inferior words (except for superior "kandaa and nganaa), to a a victim of prejudice similar to that suffered by blacks in racism words like "******" etc or a person who is economically, politically, or socially disenfranchised
Kobo, you have a point,
we have lots of mystifications we need to understand or at least re-contextualize to fit our time and not be blind followers.
That the terms you mentioned could have derogative connotations is a misunderstanding.
They are professions without which society would not be what it is, they are the motor that keeps society moving and are highly respected in the tradition. They are ranked on the same level as the aristocrat. (ref. The Charter of Kurukang Fuga)
My point is that anybody and anyone can be numó, karanké, jaló or mooró and juló pending on settlement, need and time. Hence the terms are not associated with any specific familyname which makes them fluid, dynamic.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 13:32:07
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Tribe, Cast and Ethnicity
Tribe, Cast and Ethnicity are not just inappropriate but also inadequate terms that cannot describe
the dimension and extensiveness of our social relations, hence they stem from the English language.
They are terms use to explain the unknown, that is why they are perceived offensive.
They are offensive because of their stigmatic inclinations and stereotypical implications.
Understand me well, am not saying the English language is inappropriate but that we should be mindful to use these terms in describing our social relations.
Hence these terms are very superficial and do not uncover the complexity of our social relations. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 13 Jun 2012 00:19:32 |
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